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Subscribe to RSSViolence, including the discovery of 49 mutilated bodies near the U.S. border, is reaching new levels in the ongoing drug war in Mexico. NBC's Mark Potter reports.
Mexico is struggling to contain a drugs war that has claimed more than 50,000 lives in less than six years. Msnbc.com's F. Brinley Bruton spoke to NBC News contributor Jorge Castañeda, who is a former Mexican foreign minister and a New York University professor, about the problems he sees with the ongoing efforts to stamp out the illicit trade and possible ways out of the violence.
Q: An estimated 50,000 people have been killed in Mexico since 2006, the country is one of the most dangerous in which to be a journalist, and kidnapping and extortion are rife. Is Mexico teetering over into chaos?
Daniel Becerril / Reuters
Residents look at shoes of missing people that have been arranged to form the number 49 in memory of dozens of people whose bodies were found dumped near Mexico's northern city of Monterrey on Sunday. The mutilated corpses of 43 men and six women, whose hands and feet had been cut off, were found in a pile on a highway.
A: It is not true, but it's less inaccurate that it was three or four years ago. It’s not teetering on the verge of chaos because violence remains concentrated in a few places. But those places have been changing over the past five years. The violence and killings move from one state or one region to another depending on where the army is, where the national police is, what the economic circumstances are in in a given region.
Yuri Cortez / AFP
Jorge Castañeda, foreign minister of Mexico from 2000-03, is a Latin America policy analyst for NBC News and Telemundo.
Another factor is that violence now seems to be stabilizing at very high levels. It has pretty much leveled off at about 1,000 drug-linked executions a month –- about 12,000 per year. All very high levels, but it is no longer growing.
The problem is that this has been going on for almost six years. It is much more difficult to claim now that this is a temporary problem that will soon be resolved once the cartels are destroyed or weakened or thrown out or whatever.
At six years on, it is beginning to look more difficult to see any kind of light at the end of the tunnel.
Nearly 50 bodies found dumped on Mexico highway
The victims, 43 men and six women, had their heads, hands and feet cut off and are believed to have been killed by members of Los Zetas, an extremely violent drug cartel. NBC's Mark Potter reports.
Q: What is the alternative to the war on drugs?
A: I’m against the war. I thought it was a mistake from the very beginning. That said, I can see how many well-intentioned people would for one year, for two years, for three years believe that with a little more time the violence would begin to decline, supply routes of drugs from Mexico to the United States would begin to shut down, the kingpins would be caught and all of this would sort of go away.
None of these things have happened.
A few kingpins have been caught, but many others, the biggest ones, have not. There is no indication that there has been any decrease in overall drug consumption in the U.S. The Americans point to some decline in powder cocaine but an increase in marijuana, methamphetamines, etc. Those come from Mexico also.
If you put it all together, you see very meager results given the exorbitant costs for Mexico.
18 beheaded bodies found near popular Mexico tourist site
Q: What are the costs to Mexico of fighting this war?
A: I mean 50,000 dead, about 50 billion in expenditures ... kidnappings, extortions, etc. Plus the terrible deterioration of Mexico’s image in the world, and for a country that thrives on tourism, that’s a big problem. And the human-rights violations that have increased exponentially over the past six years.
Former CIA officer Mike Baker joins msnbc TV to discuss whether spring break travelers should take note of government-issued warnings concerning Mexico.
Q: So what are the realistic solutions? Deal with the cartels? Legalization? More military involvement? Just live with it?
A: I think it’s a combination of all of those. More military involvement -- we don’t have, we just don’t have the troops, we don’t have the money, we don’t have the equipment. We don’t have any of the things that are necessary to significantly increase the military involvement.
Q: A lot of American troops are coming back from Afghanistan …
Tomas Bravo / Reuters
Marines escort Jesus Hernandez Rodriguez, a hit man of the Zetas drug cartel, as he is presented to the media in Mexico City on Friday.
A: Yes, well, they could be sent to Mexico, or they could be sent to the U.S. and the United States could do this job from its side of the border. The point being that ... there is a reasonable case to be made for dramatically increasing the size of the national police force, from 25,000 to 30,000 now to 100,000 or 150,000. That would be the minimum that would be necessary given that ... there is a great consensus in Mexico that municipal and state police are useless.
Mexico leader's message to US: 'No more weapons!'
Q: Indeed, Mexican states have had to fire their entire police forces.
A: Exactly, just redo the whole thing. So there’s a good case to be made for increasing the number of national police troops to 100,000 or 150,000. The National Action Party (known by its Spanish acronym PAN) candidate for president has said 150,000 troops. That makes sense, but that takes time, and that costs a lot of money. Now you still are not ever going to ever have enough police to really patrol the whole country. So then the question is, since you’re going to have scarce resources, where do you want to concentrate those scarce resources and on what do you want to concentrate them?
And that is where the real disagreement exists between the government and people like myself. The government has basically concentrated all its resources these past five-and-a-half years on fighting drug trafficking. I think those resources should be concentrated on fighting the effects of violence and crime that hurt people –- kidnapping, extortion, holdups, automobile thefts, etc. –- and basically not concentrated on drug trafficking
Alejandro Acosta / Reuters file
A soldier stands guard at a clandestine drug processing laboratory discovered in Zapotlanejo, on the outskirts of Guadalajara, in September 2011. The burgeoning meth industry is a major concern to officials on both sides of the border.
You don’t have to make a deal with the cartels, you don’t sit down and talk with them, you don’t shake hands with them. You just concentrate your resources on what matters to you; you don’t concentrate them on what matters to the U.S.
Cross-border methamphetamine trade booms amid Mexico's 'war on drugs'
Q: But in terms of lobbying, isn’t legalization a bit of a radioactive subject in the United States? Politicians hardly mention it in public.
A: Yes and no. Just this past weekend a state legislature in Connecticut approved medical marijuana, which for all practical purposes is legalization. This is the 17th state, together with the District of Columbia, and it is moving forward on the ballot in two states for full legalization in November.
So politicians don’t touch it, but there’s a real movement in American society, which is being reflected in medical marijuana, which is being reflected in a decline in incarceration rates, which is being reflected in more money being spent on prevention and less on punitive policies now in Obama’s budgets. You have a lot of changes that are going on, (but) people don’t want to talk about them. But there’s nothing wrong with hypocrisy. Honesty is overrated in these matters.
Members of Mexico's army burn more than 300 acres of marijuana that was discovered in July 2011. Msnbc.com's Al Stirrett reports.
Q: “Poor Mexico, so far from God, so close to the United States” has been a popular saying in Mexico. Do you think most people feel that way?
A: Perhaps it summed up what many Mexicans believed until the 1980s and ‘90s. But I think that from 1982 onwards it became clear that were it not for recurrent American bailouts and were it not for closer economic ties with the U.S., whether it was tourism or immigration then NAFTA, then investment ... that all of this is an opportunity, it is not a misfortune.
Now most Mexicans believe that by being close to the United States geographically and close economically, socially, etc., is not a misfortune but rather an opportunity.
One killed every half hour in Mexico drug-related violence
Ambassador Arturo Sarukhan talks about the affiliation between the U.S. and Mexico as Cinco De Mayo approaches.
Q: On the subject of the war on drugs, what can Mexico legitimately ask of the U.S.?
A: It can ask what President Felipe Calderon has been asking and what every president has been asking for the past 40 years, which is, stop consuming so many drugs and repeal the Second Amendment -- stop allowing people to buy guns in the United States and then export them to Mexico.
The usefulness and effectiveness of asking those two things is very much open to question in my mind. I don’t see what we gain by whining about this when we know it’s not going to happen. It is very similar to how the Americans whine, “Why don’t the Mexicans get their house in order, stop sending all these people to the U.S.?”
Map of Mexico's drug cartels
It’s not going to happen. All the whining in the world is not going to stop Mexicans from going to the U.S. They’ve been doing it for over a century. And all the Mexican whining in the world is not going to stop Americans from smoking pot.
Q: Do you feel optimistic about the future of Mexico?
A: I’m very optimistic. I think if Mexico gets three or four things straight over the next year or two, it can finally take off and become a middle class, poor-rich country within 10-15 years.
And I think it will. We have to put this war behind us. It just can’t go on. We have to change some fundamental policies, mainly on the ant-trust fron. We have to find a way to distribute the fruits of growth better, but in a rational, modern, effective way. And we have to improve the educational system rather dramatically and soon.
But these are not impossible to do.
It's a little-known fact that there's a whole branch of Mitt Romney's family living south of the border, including his second cousin Leighton Romney, and about 40 other relatives descended from religious pioneers who first traveled to Mexico 125 years ago. NBC's Mike Taibbi reports for Rock Center with Brian Williams.
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2 Points...maybe more!
1- We've been growing Pot in the US, and alot higher grade I might add, solid since the 70's & 80's and never have had this "Cartel/Druglord" problem, so I guess I'm saying, buy domestically and vote for legalization, it will completely screw with our neighbors south of the border.
2- Of all the places in the world to go now, Mexico, really? Been there, love the people, culture and area but it now ranks lower than Siberia in my vacation plans. I'm sorry but if a country can't keep itself from anarchy, why is it on the list of cruise line and vacation destinations. Pull out and let the gangs feel the real heat of the people that care for their country and each other. The passion of the people will slam down the problem faster than the police.
Many of these killers are floating across the US border. Button down the hatches.
By the way to put it in perspective we only lost about 58,000 during the entire Viet Nam War.
Do not go anywhere close to Mexico.
As long as the real problem is not addressed this will continue, as with prohibition on alcohol the "war" on drugs has been a total failure... people being killed for pot? I personally don't use pot but know if I wanted to it would not be hard to find. We need to take the PROFIT out of it and use the incredible amount of resources toward treatment and education... P.S. The last time I went to Mexico there were armed Federal troops with machine guns on the docks... didn't really make me feel "safe" Without the insane profits there would be no motivation to sell this crap.
There's light at the end of the tunnel. It has just been obscured by all the dumbasses who refuse to allow drugs to be legalized.
Hey if we legalize murder then we'll have less people in prison, the crime rate will go down (only because something that was illegal would be made legal), we'll save money from having to house these murderers in prison, prosecution and police force to catch them. Only downside to that is that now when your little sister or your parents get killed over something stupid, nothing can be done about it. The murder rate won't necessarily go down, but the crime rate will! Yippee!
So why take the same approach with drugs? Doesn't anyone realize that the cartels are banking on the fact that we'll be weak and give in to their pressures? By pressures I mean brutally killing people both Mexican and American. That's their whole gamble - make it so horrible they we'll want to give in. Seems that some of the weak minded are already there.
Not to mention that most of the drugs out there are proven to be extremely addictive. What do you think will happen when thousands of people start using this stuff without fear of punishment then find themselves addicted and broke? Get sweet little Johnnie or Suzy hooked on that stuff and in a few years they'll be doing things you never dreamed they were capable of. Do you want some whacked out meth head breaking into your home to steal your @!$%# so they can sell it at the closest pawn shop for drug money? How do you feel about putting your son or daughter in danger because you voted to legalize drugs? How many people do you think will be killed over $20 to go buy more dope and get high?
You think it's bad now, just wait, because that's where we're headed if this country legalizes drugs. Any one else who doesn't think so is a fool.
Oceanview,
Treatment for pot would be a pointless waste of money. Its not physically addictive. The education part I agree with. We need to get rid of the stigma that the federal govt and religeous nuts put on this actual miracle plant. Hemp doesn't contain THC, yet textile/logging lobbyists have killed the possible economic wonder from being grown and big pharma/religeous nuts/for profit prisons would never let pot be legal unless they got a piece of the pie. It is a sad game that is being played. So many people becoming addicted to pills, but can't grow their own alternative. BS.
Most marijuana consumed in the US is domestically grown. Mexican weed is crap. It is totally inaccurate reporting to lump marijuana in with the Mexican drug trade. The amount of pot that comes from Mexico compared to other drugs is insignificant.
making pot legal will not impact the problems in mexico. The drug lords want POWER not just to sell pot. They will just shift into the sale of other drugs meth coke etc now are we going to make all of that legal as well? Then what? well if they cant make money for power by drugs then they will dip even further into the black market organ sale. We going to make that legal as well or force everyone to be a donor? then what well they will (and are) get further into human trafficking (women and children etc) we going to make that legal as well? Do you see the point here? its not about drugs its about power. As the economy in mexico gets worse those who have money get more power. The tactics they use of fear and terror is to further destabilize the country which in turn gives them greater power. I think the person interviewed is a moron and has no idea what he is talking about. Also repealing the 2nd amendment will not have any impact on the gun trade to mexico. Thats like saying just make POT illegal in mexico so America will have less pot heads..... Guns will be sold even if there is a law to try to stop it just as drugs. The problem is not the drugs or guns its the evil sob cartels blood lust and hunger for power and mexico simply being......."a failed state"
@smarterthanu11
pot is addictive and when or if you ever try to quit you will go through withdraws.
We have Mexican cartel people growing pot in our National forests, killing people, poisoning the water with fertilizer. We need to legalize pot and let people grow it just like beer and wine home brewing.
@johngis pot is NOT addictive. I have an addictive personality and am an alcoholic. I have not had a drink in over 26 years and have not had a cigarette in over 25. I have started and stopped smoking over the years with no issues. I speak from experience and self awareness. You are just spouting what others have told you.
I guess that 'Mexico should handle its own problems' strategy has worked out great!
Maybe its because we won't export illegals, we will, however make it impossible for legals to get in the country, we'll make drugs illegal, and then buy those drugs anyway because who cares if a bunch of Mexicans die so we can get our highs.
Wanting legal drugs does not excuse a drug user from playing a role in the murder of others. I do approve of the legalization of marijuana. Until its legal, however, I'm not using any.
This is not an issue for political stooging Democrats vs. Republicans. Its an issue of the US not being stupid. And if you can count on something working in our relationship with Mexico, you can also count on us to absolutely not do it.
Where is Liz Estrada when you need her?
Ill tell you how addictive pot really is.Pick your favorite ice cream flavor,you really like that ice cream but could live without it.The ice cream really dosent effect your life or keep you from having a job.But its illegal and the problems that go along with that are worse than the ice cream itself.So if the ice cream was legal a lot of problems and money spent to keep ice cream away from you would go away.
You might just look at it as an freedom issue.
Mexico has so many problems for so many years,the place was a mess before the drug cartels.
johngis - I was diagnosed with advanced Glaucoma while a freshman in college by the university health department and told I'd be blind by 25. I went for a 2nd opinion to an Ophthalmologist and was told the same thing. At this time (1972) there was no treatment available for me and when I asked the specialist if there was nothing I could do he said, "smoke dope". I did and have (I'm 57) until last year when I was forced to change jobs. Fearing drug tests, I stopped. NO trouble at all. I've stopped for periods of several months before 4 or 5 times and NEVER have I had ANY withdrawal problems, symptoms, etc. I had a much harder time quitting Coke (the drink) as I had several kidney stones and was told fizzy drinks were a no no.
NO problems with pot whatsoever. Your "facts" are just plain wrong. BTW, I went and took a driving test the other day and passed just fine. I can still see because of this evil drug you like to demonize and you can imagine what I think of YOUR opinion. You'd never know I smoke nor why. I do high end computer security work and deal with top level management all day long.
Again, I can see thanks to this wonder drug though lately I've noticed the telltale darkening at the corners of my vision and I'll have to start up again. Pot doesn't cure Glaucoma it just arrests it and that's fine with me. You should not make blanket statements as you do without knowing the facts. For me, it's been a life saver. Legalize, repeal the prohibition and watch the troubles fade to black.
Did you ever stop to think, maybe the USA wants a severely depleted Mexico? They have some primo real estate, what better way to take over than just letting them annihilate each other first.
repeal the 2nd Amendment to solve Mexico's Problems Um How about NO ! This Government will probably try to pitch that the American public under its guise of " Safety " Is anyone really that dumb to think that all the guns come from us. We are talking about Billion dollar criminal organizations , yeah maybe a gold plated pistol or a nice 45 is coming out of the US for some high levels personal collection or carry piece but the real hardware is coming from any rouge nation you can think of off the top of your head. Just be happy they haven't bought any Migs or tanks yet and STFU president whatever your name is Mexico ..........Americans like their drugs as long as that continues this will continue or legalize and regulate it already , this drug war has been a vast waste of resources , you think Law Enforcement doesn't like all the" Tacticool" (yes i said tacti Cool ....because they love this stuff ) toys they are getting ,i mean look at the gun boat Texas Dept of public safety just got for like half a mil ....that's gonna make a BIG difference in sure on the 500 miles of the rio grande river and that's not even including the cost of operating it and staffing it , if that half a mil was put toward treating 10 addicts who want to stop you'd make a bigger impact , that boat is a tiny peanut in the money spent on equpiment , courts , jails etc ........Those who sacrifice safety for freedom deserve neither .........................When are people going to start waking up already
Mexico is a powder keg waiting to blow. And the match is going to be when their oil economy collapses because their nationalization for oil exploration in the past halted drilling new wells leaving them dependent on ones that are running dry. Without the oil revenue, their economy is going to nose dive and the cartels will become the only lucrative game in town. Kaboom!
Completely false, as anyone can discover with a simple Google search of a reputable source. See, this is the problem with our country, we have ignorant people that are too lazy to figure out what the truth is before they spew nonsense. That statement is so wrong it is inane...
Legalize pot and end this failed War on Drugs.
The four basic laws of supply and demand are:
its not a theory.
its the freakin law.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8eh9Cdf9FM&feature=related
Our troops are coming back from Afghanistan, so why not deploy them all to new 'proving grounds' along the border? Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California could all do with the economic boost. The US Army might well be intolerant of corrupt local, state, and federal officials, too on either side of the border.
The word will quickly get out that land crossings by undocumented aliens are no longer feasible. None of this "Halt!" b.s., just "Bang!" or "Bang, Adios!" if the soldier is feeling friendly.
Let me tell you, THAT thought has crossed my mind. The U.S. had NO MORE of a desire to stop the flow of drugs into this Country than the Mexican government desires to stop its cartels.
The U.S. government knows that at this point, NOTHING can be done about this drug war, short of a full scale invasion by our Military. And they know Americans would never go for that.
johngis,
And on what do you base that nonsense about pot being addictive? Who told you that? Your third grade teacher? Ridiculous.
@pete-776297-783602 your facts of the drug trade to Mexico are incorrect. Pot is the engine driving the Mexican drug cartels. I live near the border and the quantities seized are just insane. The cops hardly bother to charge anyone if they are carrying less than 1000 lbs, they just seize it and let them go after booking. The Mexican Army just burned 35,000 lbs of pot in Reynosa and that is a common occurrence. By weight the other drugs are more profitable, but the volume is in pot and that is what drives the cartels to fight each other because they need to control the physical routes to get the loads across the border. They tax the couriers bringing up the shipments and so they fight over those taxes. If it was legal probably Walmart could grow all the pot the US needs and do it cheaper.
Hoowahfun --
Your comment is inane. The difference between legalization of drugs vs murder is that one kills someone else, the other (in and of itself) does no such thing. Reflect on the fact that drugs were legal and unregulated for the vast majority of human history-- only in the last 150 years or so has drug regulation even been a priority for anyone. And you know what? People got on just fine. Conversely, murder has been banned by pretty much every country and every culture on earth since the dawn of civilization. Ergo, your comparison of the two is a falsity. That's like me saying, "No one should have light bulbs to light their homes because the sun is so goddamn big." It's a foolish argument.
Secondly, historical precedents of cultures without drug laws show that people don't suddenly turn into manic, drooling psychopaths on the search for their next fix. Venezuela decriminalized all drugs-- and there were plenty of people shouting the same kind of non-sense as you are. And you know what happened? Crime rates dropped. And not just possession and like crimes-- but violent crimes as well. Consider this: the Ancient Greek parliament, the original model for democracy in the world, was required to get high before every session. It was said to promote more amiable negotiations. (Saw that little factoid on "Hooked: A History of Drugs" on the history channel).
The bottom line is that people have been taking drugs since the beginning. Some anthropologists believe that consciousness may have come about when our early ancestors encountered hallucinogenic mushrooms, which in turn led them to create religion (think shamans) and stratify social hierarchies, ultimately leading to the first true culture. Even discarding that theory, it is a proven fact that beer is older than bread-- and the earliest civilization with written records, the Sumerians, were known to have ingested all manner of drugs. The war on drugs and all other attempts at regulation are really nothing more than an attempt to regulate human behavior-- a behavior that's embedded in our cultures, our bodies and (some say) even our souls (again, think shaman). It's a losing battle and eventually you have to come to grips with that fact. As it is, we're spending around $500 a second on a war against our own inner nature. We could spend a fraction of that amount on education and treatment and we would have better results-- as Every. Single. Study. Ever. Done. on the subject has concluded. Interdiction does one thing, and really only one thing, very well: it drives up the profit for the black market distributor. The RAND corporation has done several studies on that-- look it up. Here's a wikipedia excerpt citing one of the RAND studies:
I hate to break it to you, Hoowahfun-- but your opinion is wrong (not to mention poorly stated).
GREAT NEWS!!!
Attention all druggies currently in treatment for addiction to pot:
According to Plotinus, The Overlord, gooddoctor, Ron from Jersey and Smarterthanu11 you are not addicted to pot, I repeat, not addicted to pot!
Quit wasting your money and check yourselves out of treatment immediately! You can now use that money you would have wasted on treatment to an imaginary addiction to indulge in your favorite pastime. Remember, it's a complete fallacy that pot is addictive in any way, shape or form, or that crimes are ever committed by people who under the influence of it. You are also a much better driver under the influence of pot than sober people are!
You should have just checked it out with these five guys first before admitting yourself into rehab. They would have straightened you out real quick! (And they could have saved you and your insurance company a lot of money).
It really is great news, it's like the second coming of Christ! You've been given a blessing and a reprieve. Enjoy!
Wiseass,
No one said that no crimes have never been commited under the influence of pot, but I would challenge you to prove that smoking the pot caused them to commit the crime. And I have read a study done back in 1966 by some professor from the University of Arizona in Tempe that showed that habitual smokers, when stoned, had much better reaction times than any of the others tested. Also many nam vets have told me they got rid of anyone who didn't smoke in their squads due to slower reaction times getting everyone else killed. Anyone in a drug rehab for addiction to marijuana is in there for other reasons, not for pot addiction. And there are other reasons for going to rehabs. Like putting a good face forward in court, etc. Or getting rich moms and dads to put you back in their wills.
Hoowafun,
You lose all credibility, when you make ridiculous comparisons, equating smoking a joint to murder. You have to compare a crime with no victim to another crime with no victim, if you wish to be taken seriously.
Try comparing murder and rape. Try comparing pot smoking to...Ok I give up. Maybe smoking pot is a totally unique crime. I can't think of another crime that comes with jail time without harming, or at least involving, another's person or property, or potential suicide, like a drug you can possibly OD on. Has anybody got one?
Plotinus
Perhaps you want to reword your question? MANY crimes are committed in order to get the money to purchase drugs, pot included. That crime would include prostitution, robbery, muggings.
LOL
Get a grip man! Pot is cheap on the streets of America. In fact you can support a pot habit for much less money than an alcohol habit! People commit crimes to buy alcohol, tobacco, milk, diapers, pay rent and everything else imaginable. Your comment is completely illogical and doesn't support your ideological position... alas, that is the problem here.
TheOverlord
If you don't have an income and want drugs you gotta do something. Be that robbery, mugging, or trade. The PROBLEM here is you AssUMe that I am against MJ. That you are unwilling to admit that people commit crimes to obtain drugs shows how far you have your head up your ass or you have been smoking something mixed with your dope.
there is but one real solution to end the "War" with the drug cartels. Any time Police or Army's encounter an enemy who does not follow "rules", they must either adapt to "No-Rules" or they lose. Period. Example- Vietnam, Korea, and so on. If the Mexican gov't labels the cartels as terroists they can merely put a bounty on every one of them and end this mess within 5 years. The Police are corrupt because they are underpaid and underfunded. The elected officials are fearing for their lives and keeping a low profile as well on most local fronts. They talk tough for getting elected, but then fade into the background when it is time for action. Legalizing pot will only bring the cartels into the meth business which they are already doing. And the pot problem is not the cash cow anyway- it is Cocaine.
one more issue....smoking pot is not a victimless crime. Just as smoking cigarettes or cigars- there are carcinogens released when burning anything. Whether it be a joint, a pile of leaves or your neighbors home... ash and smoke of any type is bad for others. So says the surgeon General... and my mom. LOL. If you doubt this just inhale the next time you burn a pile of leaves and enjoy.
Chalk up another disaster to "Free-market" economics and rich, educated Mexicans like Jorge Castañeda was one of the main spokesmen for it so he is as much to blame as anyone.
Mexico was poor and corrupt enough before the U.S. and the international lending institutions it controls, like the World Bank and the IMF, forced "Structural Adjustments" on them in the 1980's and '90's. (The same thing the IMF and EU have done to Greece, Italy, Spain, etc.)
Now it's a nightmare.
Mexico was forced to cut subsidies for food for the poor, forced to privatize state owned businesses like the railway system that used to provide cheap transportation etc.
They were forced to take down trade barriers so the country was flooded with cheap corporate grown corn from the US. The result was that many subsistance farmers were driven off the land and wound up in the sweat shops along the border or as beggars on the streets of Mexico City, etc.
The result was the same as everywhere these policies have been tried (or more often forced on countries). The rich got a lot richer and the poor got the shaft, making their situation even more desperate and desperate people join drug cartels as growers, enforcers, smugglers etc.
At the same time the anti government Free market ideology weakens the state and makes it even more corrupt and less able to respond to disasters and gangsterism.
I've traveled clear across Mexico on the train in the early 1980's and at one time had been in more Mexican States than states here in the U.S. Back then you could travel and meet people and not fear for your life.
I wouldn't go back there now. Too dangerous.
It will be like that here to if things keep going the way they are.
for those who think this is a drug dealer issue, you are wrong. they are killing innocent people, young and old alike, who go to rehab facilities. they go in and kill them all. one of the officers, killed in a raid, had his entire family killed the next day. there are innocent people trying to come here, as our ancestors did, for a better life. we need protection at our borders but we also need to let good people in.
Mexico is ONE BIG PAIN in the USA's arse. No one should be allowed to simply cross into the US illegally. We know they are smuggling drugs, I say anyone caught crossing the border illegally gets shot. That will end this crap. America has a huge drug problem. If all the people with the drug problems want to move to Mexico, Viva la Bye-Bye. Secure our borders. I wonder how much money is spent by the Drug Cartel's to bring this stuff into America. Seems to me they get it in here easy enough. Just sayin. Also, if America tightened up security, hard to sell drugs when you can't get them into the country.
Mexico is so screwed up that I doubt anything could help.
The leadership is pathetic.
I feel sorry for the average citizen that has to live down there.
You apparently are unaware that vaporizers don't combust the plant material and thus don't release carcinogens. The same principle applies to e-cigarettes that do the same thing with tobacco. Vaporizing is the preferred method of consumption for individuals that want the benefits of pot without the health risks.
disgusted-2777723
GET A CLUE. The USA already allows 600,000 people to legally become citizens each and every year. That is MORE than the rest of the ENTIRE world COMBINED. That is not visitor or worker visas but CITIZENS. The majority of those are from Mexico. Don't make this debate about violence in Mexico into the illegal immigration debate. Why should we allow thousands more in from that @!$%# hole only to turn our nation into a larger one? If you REALLY want to allow all of Mexico into the USA then lets do it right. Allow them to VOTE to become a territory under OUR control... see Puerto Rico. Then in time, once we start taxing them and cleaning things up, including the politics and other corruption, they can start becoming states and citizens.
I don't think the problem is pot. I like to have a beer or two once in a while. If pot was legal all along, i think most pot users would use it as occasionally as I have a beer. At the time pot came along Haroin was becoming a big problem. Unfortunely for the pot smoker like the drinker some of people like to keep taking it further and go higher and higher. There is always some one there to help make your dreams come true. At this point you start having addicts, and alcholics creating problems not only for themselves, their family members, and people around them. So society says enough and drug laws are established. All drugs were put into this catgory as a lump and not looked at inividually. Now I might be a little off in my thinking, but I don't think I'm to far off as to be extreme.
The war on drugs is a joke. All that is being done is to control the market. There's a lot of money in drugs and the powers that be want that money.
If you look back to when the Taliban started in Afghanistan you will note reports that the Taliban had stopped opium trafficking in their country. The farms disappeared and so on. In Peru, Fujimori went after Sendero Luminoso and ended their terrorist efforts. Both actions were successful because they intended to accomplish their task. We spend billions on a war on drugs and things get worse.
Either we are being used to control drug trafficking or the people in charge of the war are incredibly incompetent.
So a couple of points:
The same people who are outraged that Michelle Obama is promoting a healthy lifestyle with a smart diet and exercise are all of sudden (well not really all of a sudden) apparently concerned about everyone's health. They don't like that...cities and states say you can't near serve raw meat (because of the danger) or that there are smoking bans in certain places - because of the health hazard. They applaud...Herman Cain's ad with his staffer smoking - because they are about freedom! Yet there is no definitive evidence linking pot smoking to cancer, no definitive evidence showing pot is addictive, but for cigarettes both are almost universally undisputed.
So cigarettes DEFINITELY cause cancer and are DEFINITELY addictive.
Pot - not sure about either.
But, don't put laws in place restricting our freedom to smoke cigarettes, but you can't smoke pot because...well because of....(bull@!$%# reasons).
Usual hypocrisy?
Legalize it!
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I personally feel like they are blaming america for there problems, They blame us for consuming the drugs even tho they are the ones making and selling them and then blame us for making and selling guns even tho they are the ones who consume them!!! who is to blame the making or the consumer? NEITHER its always americas fault...
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Legalize weed and make everything else illegal, this isnt going to help mexico cause the only thing that can is if there culture changes as a hole but it will help me cause i dont wana go to court on friday for this dam weed charge!
To prove the point that the government (both US and Mexico) is in cahoots with the cartel, how can there be MAPS of where the cartels are, yet no one can stop them? And why do so many posters here keep referring just to "pot", when they are also showing meth production - it's not just pot. Lastly, if no one is addicted to pot, why is it so hard for people to quit, knowing it is still illegal?
The root cause of this violence is demand for drugs in the US. We in the US can stop the violence if we so choose.
There are two fundamental facts that we need to accept. One is that the demand for drugs is resistant to change; a drug addict does not think rationally, and consequently is willing to incur substantial risk and hardship in order to acquire drugs. The other is that it is impossible to physically prevent the smuggling of drugs into the US to a meaningful extent.
The solution is to deter people from selling or importing drugs. Deterrence can be established by executing several thousand drug traffickers in the US every month. After only a few months of executions, large numbers of drug traffickers would decide to get out of the business. Drug traffickers are not stupid.
This number of executions would be horrifying, but the drug problem is much more horrifying; drug abuse in the US kills far more people than this; in the US, hundreds of people get killed every week in disputes over drugs; thousands of people have been killed in Mexico by drug cartels over the past year.
If you know how to count, you will see my logic.
Or, better yet, just end the stupid drug war. Prices would plummet. We'd see cartels going out of business overnight. There wouldn't be a need to kill drug traffickers or hire 120,000 more national police. There wouldn't be a need to militarize our border. There wouldn't be such a demand for guns across the border. There wouldn't be thousands trying to cross the border to flee the drug violence.
This is what I don't get. You're saying that the drug war has failed, so let's double down? Same old @!$%# that W was pushing. He outright admitted that we had lost the drug war, and so he started militarizing police to handle the "new" drug problem, giving them all sorts of high-tech military equipment, exploding budgets, and hiring a bunch of thugs that, often times, are drug users themselves, to enforce a bad law.
When the hell are you people going to wake up and realize that prohibition doesn't @!$%#ing work?
Why is someone a drug addict when all they use marijuana. So wrong. How many pills do you pop a day?
Is that first pink baby aspirin that mother gave us, not the real first step toward using drugs. Mom was my first drug supplier. After baby aspirin, she had me on full strength aspirin, then bufferin, then ibuprofen. Then she took me to another dug supplier all dressed in white. He did some tests on me, then gave me all kinds of drugs.
Pills kill, tobacco kill, alcohol kill. In 5000 years of marijuana use it has never killed anybody.
You people say Legalize it as if this is only about pot. It's not. While certainly pot is being brought in from Mexico the high market stuff, heroin, coke etc. is as well. Do you honestly believe that legalizing pot will deter the drug cartels? Not for a moment.
I agree with stricter measures at the borders. We have many national guard/reserve troops coming back from Afghanistan. Put them on our borders, and have them destroy the tunnels that have been dug between the two countries. Blow them up. Get rid of them completely. Anyone trying to cross over to be stopped. Any challenge of their authority? Shoot them on sight. They will get the message soon enough.
As for Mexico's government, they need to deal with this themselves. While I'm in sympathy for the poor in Mexico the government needs to get a handle on their own situation before we can even start to help them. Otherwise the money would just end up in the hands of the cartels we are trying to disolve.
Grass leads to harder drugs. It always has. It always will.
Mason:
Who ever got high or fried their brains on aspirin, Bufferin, Ibuprofen, Tylenol.
Aspirin has magical Medical qualities; thins the blood for potential heart/stroke/colon cancer. Ibuprofen reduces the swelling in joints, (no pun intended), i.e, arthritis, osteoarthritis, and many physical injuries.
You are talking about the "wrong department" of drugs.
"Get high and die". Marijuana is only slightly used for Cancer Patients at the end of life to ease their pain of dying..
Drug Cartels will always exist. It is the problem of President Calderon who has turned a blind eye to all the people he has seen die in his country. They are hard core Monsters. Almost the same mind-set as a Dictator in a Communist Country. Who cares about Sgt. Terry, the Border Patrol who was murdered?
The War on Drugs. It never existed. It was amplified via Mexico, Colombia, Venezuela, and now the Terrorists floating thru their borders to make money for their Cause of destroying the United States. Another Terrorist Act that is self-inflicted by ourselves--it is a "choice" to do drugs, while innocent people are being killed in Mexico who have gotten in the way of the Gangs.
Sure there is a heavy demand right over the Border of Mexico, in Hollywood, where money is flowing to get high.
I'm sooooooooooo glad that you aren't in charge. Your entire suggestion is just more of the same- trying to use prohibition and threats to dictate human behavior. Your "morals" do not speak for me.
Reform our National Drug Laws. Legalize Cannabis. Eliminate Mandatory Minimum Sentences.
Decriminalize Cannabis!!!!
Texas Armadillo-
Why don't we flip your idea and kill off those that are for prohibition? It wouldn't take long to convince the US to repeal it's drug "war" - what a laughable misnomer - to convince the sheep to legalize it. /sarcasm
Mike Fillmore- if Cannabis is a gateway drug (and I DON'T agree with this assertion), then your coffee is, too. And so is the cane sugar you put in it. And so is the cigarette you had with it. And so is the energy drink you have everyday at 3pm... get over yourself. Go have a beer and pretend you're different.
Texas Armadillo- You sir, are simply a fascist. Declare an enemy and then destroy them. Rally the people behind the violence and you have yourself a for-real dictatorship. Except for that whole second amendment thing.
To Janine- At least you seem to have a little more sense. You bring what looks like a valid argument. I agree that some of the drugs out there are dangerous. In my psychopharmacology course in college we discussed this. The really dangerous drugs out there are heroin, meth, crack and pcp. I think that people who have problems with those drugs should get treatment, not prison time. I had a student in the class suggest that people with heroin problems be able to use it in a special place under the supervision of a nurse. They actually do this in canada and it seems to eliminate all of the problems in society related to the heroin. After two college degrees (one in psychology) I find that overwhelmingly prohibition makes every drug problem worse. When Mexico does end their drug war, and the probably will after this election, all hell will break out on our side of the border.
To Marchant- You are simply ignorant. All of the drugs you mentioned are much more dangerous than cannabis. Did you ever wonder why people die of prescription pain killers? its because most of them have tylenol in them. Yup. Tylenol is THOUSANDS of times more deadly than cannabis. Look it up.
drug users and dealers are already being killed everyday. 50,000 to date. Death is not the answer. higher risk more profit. Decrease the risk decrease the profit. think about it
Joel:
Did I mention Aspirin, Tylenol, Ibuprophen, Bufferin as PRESCRIPTION DRUGS?
Yours is an excuse for legalizing illegal drugs.
Go ask your Doctor, or the Researchers about Aspirin, and the others mentioned..
Oxycontin, Percoset, are only prescribed by doctors who monitor their patients carefully---after surgery, maybe a few of these---not the Gollywood Doctors, who are quacks.
Of course there are those who purchase these narcotic drugs on the Black Market. Don't lump them in with the Aspirin takers--Aspirin could save your life.
@mike fillmore it would seem your addiction is to other peoples baseless statements to give you an opinion. Pot does NOT lead to harder drugs. Yes, some people start there but more than likely they started with beer. I know MANY people who have smoked pot and never moved onto any other drug. I speak from life experience, where do you speak from slanted "facts" and "reports"?
Marchant, you are missing the point. A drug is a drug is a drug. There is no biological distinction between over the counter and prescription or illicit drugs. These distinctions are purely political. And since the doctors have no say in what drugs are legal or not, why would I ask my doctor. My doctor would/has told me that cannabis is not harmful, and may even be very good. But why would I bother to ask my doctor. Unlike 99% of the posters on this board, I have a formal degree in Psychology and specifically I have a lot of course work in addiction and biological psychology. I am also working on a degree in biology at the moment. Argue with me if you can, but I can leverage much more data, including the raw research, than most everyone on this forum today. Do not listen to the politicians. They don't know much and listen too much to lobbyists (usually from pharmaceutical companies, which coincidentally market cannabis under such names as marinol and sativex). Did you know that recent research suggests that cannabis may have a protective effect against cancer (people that smoke cannabis AND tobacco have less lung cancer than people who just use tobacco, and cannabis users have less cancer overall than the rest of us)? On the flip side, all of the drugs you mentioned can kill you. Did you know that they have yet to accurately establish a lethal dose for cannabis? In other words, they CAN'T kill a lab animal reliably with cannabis. The LD50 of aspirin is about 250mg/kg of body weight. Seems like your beloved aspirin is more dangerous (and potentially less helpful) than cannabis. Please learn more before you form such hard opinions. Ignorance doesn't suit you.
Only because grass is illegal. Compare the effects of pot as opposed to alcohol. You will find the desired effects of harder drugs more closely resemble alcohol than weed.
I believe sugar leads to harder drugs. Show me one drug abuser that didn't have sugar growing up. (sarcasm off)
The causal connection quoted is ridiculous. Always has been and always will be.
Isnt it great having others tell you how to live.
You know, I'm not just arguing for legalizing marijuana. I argue for legalization of all drugs. Heroin, methampetamine, PCP, opium, etc.
Yes, you'll have addicts. Although, you have to wonder why drugs weren't such a problem until they were made illegal. We didn't have cartels, gang drug wars, militarized policemen, etc.
Illegalizing drugs has made them more dangerous, and by extension, the rest of society has become a less safe place. If you take away the profits, legalize and tax drugs instead of keeping the prices inflated by prohibiting them, you see a whole lot of crime lose its incentive. Cartels and gangs won't fight over customers anymore because those customers will have legal outlets to go to. Addicts who want to get help but are afraid to ask because they can and will be thrown in prison for revealing they use illicit drugs can suddenly go up to any policeman and ask where a rehab center is.
I'm not saying it would be perfect. But people will continue to use drugs, legal or illegal. Legalizing drugs is the lesser of two evils in my opinion, simply because of the effects on society and on the drug users themselves. Not only that, but we can repeal a lot of legislation that explicitly violates the 4th Amendment. And, we could dry up a lot of funding for dirty cops.
Joel:
Dealing in the Psychology World, you do not have a license to dispense "drugs". This is what you might think, but a Pyschiatrist is the expert on the illegal drugs, or OTC drugs with a Medical Degree.
You can voice your opinions, and that is all they are.
Aspirin is the miracle worker. Just ask anyone who has had a heart attack, stroke, or colon cancer.
Do you have a Doctorate of Psychology. There are all kinds of Pyschologists out there. Online degrees, MSW degrees, etc.
Marijuana, other illegal drugs have not been put on the shelves of the Grocery Stores. Tabacco, and Alcohol have---and they should be monitored.
It is self choice. Only prescriptions by Reputable Doctors are dispensed. The Gollywood crowd uses quacks for their meds, and people buying the illegal drugs off the street on the Black Market are breaking the Laws stated. Let them get high and look at their brain---there is much research on the Brain, showing that these drugs are harmful.
Did you study the Brain, as a Psychiatrist does, before practicing. Do you continually go to Medical Conferences for the Latest on what is' happening in Pyschiatric Research.
Do you know what a " brain neuron" is?
Where is there any evidence of that? Again silly statements coming from people with no clue what they are talking about. Tobacco and alcohol can be proven to be bigger gateway drugs than pot. That's a fact you can look-up if you really wanted to. Truth of the matter is attitudes like the one stated by Mike are made for political, economic and ideological reasons and have no connection to facts.
End this silly anti-pot rhetoric that has been proven time and time again to be lies and propaganda. Pot is one of the most valuable and safe drugs known to humans and has been consumed for thousands of years. If you vaporize pot as a method of ingestion rather than burning it you don't even have the risk (still small compared to cigarettes) of carcinogens (cancer causing compounds) and has even been shown to have anti-cancer properties in studies. Or you can just eat it.
This is nothing more than a War on Reason.
Joel:
Please read this website.
http://www.schoolsintheusa.com/careerprofiles_details.cfm?carid=531
What upsets me most about this article is the guys whole mindset of what is happening for both sides will not change and people should basically accept the fact that illegals will always flee to America because it is better and that those in america saying that Mexico should get their @!$%# together and improve their own standards are just Whiners. This is mostly a Mexico problem. Most aspects of Mexican society are corrupt. The police, government, etcc. are all corupt. How is that an American problem?. Mexico needs to scrap their entire government, reform a new police force, coordinate with their military and wipe out the cartels once and for all. Stop making mexico's problems a US problem. We don't need mexico to grow our drugs, we do a much better job anyway.
Marchant, I grow very tired of debating people like you who contribute nothing to our conversation in every immature response you provide. Instead of providing something constructive to the conversation you attack me personally. I never claimed to be a psychologist, just to have a BA in Psychology (from an accredited traditional public college that so happens to also have a medical school so I MIGHT know a few things. In addition, I do not claim equal knowledge to the Psychiatrists you mention. On the other hand, they actually WENT to med school. But you are not a Psychiatrist. In fact, I do not even believe you have a degree based soley on your conduct here. That being said, let me TRY to address your complaints (they are fragmented and incoherent. Are you perhaps on drugs right now?) You say that the research finds these drugs dangerous. You do realize that NONE of these illicit (not illegal, that is not the term we use in Psychology by the way) drugs are NEAR as deadly as tylenol? Look up the LD50 for each drug. That tells you how deadly it is in lab tests. If you take a handfull of tylenol you will certainly die. But tylenol has fillers and other fluff as part of the tablet. It is not pure acetaminophen. So even if you weigh out a pill of tylenol and a tablet of ecstacy you are getting more ecstacy. The LD50 of ecstacy (MDMA for us with an education) is about 98 mg/kg. That means that a 150 pound man should be able to survive a dose of 6,681mg of MDMA. A cursory search of the internet reveals to me that a normal dose of MDMA for users is about 125mg per use. That would mean that a 150 pound man would have to eat 53 doses of pure MDMA in order to OD. In other words, the only feasible situation where this might happen is if the cops are closing in on a dealer and he tries to eat his entire inventory to avoid prosecution. Tylenol, on the other hand has a LD50 of 338mg/kg. This means that at a single dose of 1000mg meaning that the same man would die from only 23 doses of tylenol. I am not making this stuff up. Tylenol, an over the counter drug is more dangerous to your body than a drug I am not even advocating for. I think that newer drugs like MDMA need much research before we even consider legalizing them. But I believe we need to do the research. Cannabis, and to a lesser extent drugs like D-lysergic acid diethylamide, or LSD and Psylicibin have fabulous medicinal potential and little or no harm. At least let the scientists research them uninhibited by politics. For cannabis, I do not believe that there exists a credible scientific reason to continue its schedule I status. But I do not expect you to understand such things. With regard to a neuron, it is the basic building unit of a nervous system, but it can be found in more than just the brain. Since you know so much about this topic, what is an action potential, a glial cell, a dendrite, a hypothalamus? What is the function of a corpus callosum, a pre-central gyrus, an olfactory bulb or a hippocampus? If you want to engage in debate and discussion with me, then I welcome your opinions and your input as long as they do not advocate violence as a solution. If you just want to attack my credentials (in typical conservative/fascist fashion then I have no time for you.
Joel:
We have 3 Medical Doctor Psychiatrists in our direct family, and several Doctors of Psychology. Unusual, but true.
Do you not think that illegal Drugs is a topic of discussion when we all get together?
You are wrong in your debates re: Ilegal drugs.
The observation of "Immature" is ridiculous---you don't know me, I do not know you---how old are you. My life experience would not define me as immature.
The debate you bring back is not credible at all. So you have a list of medical dictionary words---so?
Joel:
Please read the book "Heinz Kohut" and the Psychology of the Self. The Author is my direct cousin.
You would find this a good read if you can understand it.
If you really have psychiatrists in the family, then let me debate with them. I am certain that I would learn a few things from them. But in the area of cannabis, you really are in over your head. One of my professors WAS a researcher on cannabis. I have had many conversations with him about cannabis. Until I took his psycho-pharmacology course I was 100% against all drugs and would have supported some of the more draconian policies suggested here. Actually learning about the chemistry, biology, and physiology of drugs opened my eyes. I still do not use drugs, but I no long stigmatize, persecute, and defame those who do. I have met many users since then and I can say that cannabis users especially are very productive, functional members of society until they lose their job because they got arrested, can't get another job because they have a felony conviction (and we all know all felonies are created equal, or at least the employment application says so), has fewer prospects outside of crime, and then what have they got to lose? Not to mention the guy who goes to jail because he had a joint, learns how to rob a bank while in the criminal justice system, gets out and can't find a job, then takes the next logical step. We are creating a monster. They call prison the "University of Crime." We need to lock up some people to protect society. Those people are violent, subversive, or simply do not respect the property rights of others in society. When we let thieves go because our prison is full of drug users, we do the victims of theft a huge disservice. When our cops refuse to investigate a theft because they are too busy with revenue generating activities (primarily traffic stops and drug intervention), they do all of society (including you Marchant) an injustice. I do not advocate the legalization of all drugs. As a result of my college studies (particularly bio-psychology where I got to spend a lot of time learning brain chemistry and dissecting a brain) I believe that substances like PCP should NEVER be legalized because they represent a real and quantifiable danger to society that even the most hard core of drug users have to agree on. At the very least, I believe that people who want to use such things do so under the direct supervision of mental health professionals in a safe environment, and at the users expense. But that is just my personal opinion. I think cannabis should be legal and some other drugs should follow, subject to research and public trial programs. But we do everyone an disservice by not researching and not discussing it like adults. It would seem that LSD, Psylicibin, and MDMA have fascinating medical properties that should have been discovered 50 years ago but the "war on drugs" took precedence and prevented any research being done. Imagine all the Vietnam vets with PTSD that died suffering unimaginable emotional trauma. Imagine all the Iraq and Afghanistan vets who would have suffered the same fate had some Universities not gotten very pushy with our Federal Government. Did you know who approves the supply of drugs for researchers? The NIDA. The National Institute on Drug Abuse. The very bureaucracy that is charged with preventing drug abuse in America. They have a very strong vested interest in preventing any research on anything that has already been prohibited. The medical uses be damned. The Vets be damned. Is this how you or your supposed Psychiatrist family members think we should do things?
Joel:
You make me laugh and have made my day.
You "DON"T" believe I have 3 Psychiatrists in our direct family---and 3 Doctors of Psychology? Did you look up my cousin's book on Amazon.Com---it listed there for you to purchase, and get educated on Psychoanalysis and Narcissism. Truly proud of our family's accomplishments.
Thank you for the compliment. I will tell them. I will not talk about going off subject except for the Mexican Killings, and atrocities; as I already gone off subject with you.
Aspirin, Tylenol, Ibuphrophen's, Analgesics, etc. are NOT drugs in the sense you have labeled them.
Have a nice day. "You are blowing smoke"--enough already.
Mike Fillmore,
It is people like you spewing outright lies that are just as guilty as the Harry Anslinger bunch that went in front of congress with lies to get all this drug war started. Thinking of all the human tragedy, lives destroyed, all over a bunch of lies and to find that there are still nitwits out there that have swallowed it hook line and sinker is really sad. I find people like you despicable. Notice, please, that I did not call you personally despicable. Been banned too many times for that kind of talk. LMAO
Joel,
Thank you for that last post. It shows an intelligent non-biased analysis including your personal experiences. Myself I think all drugs should be legalized knowing fully well that there will be those who go over the cliff. We have alcoholics that do that every day but we pass by their hangouts under the bridge and continue on our way to work.
I don't know if any of you remember Surgeon General Koop or not, but his "farewell speech" was very interesting. He said that the number one drug problem in America was nicotene and putting into monetary terms cost our economy 300 billion dollars a year (in money of his time). Number two, he said, was alcohol, costing the economy 200 billion a year. He then said you could take ALL the other drugs and put them into one bag, costing the economy 10 billion a year. He then went on to mention something about being hypocrites. It's almost like one cannot discuss this issue at all without getting pulled off into Alice's Wonderland by all the ignorants following lockstep the agenda put down on us by certain special interests.
Plotinus, I have read many of your posts in the past, and I respect your view on the issues we are facing today. Let me say that I agree with you in principle about legalizing drugs. I believe that a person has the right to do anything to their own body that they should choose to do. I do not believe that the government can, in good conscience, abridge that right. However, higher than my right to pursue happiness is the right of my neighbor to be free of any abridgment of his rights on my account. Yes, people have the right to consume whatever substance they wish. If, in the course of that consumption they stand in the way of my own rights then they should not be allowed to use that substance. A good example of this is PCP. Everything I have ever learned about that drug suggests to me that the worst fears of society regarding drug use are realized in PCP. Someone using PCP is so far removed from logical reasoning that they are quite insane. We don't let persons with certain mental health diagnoses roam our streets for good reason: they are dangerous. I would not want a world where a lot of people were using PCP. I may be wrong however. I have never tried PCP. Other drugs like cannabis fall on the other end of the spectrum. There is no credible reason for keeping it prohibited. Other drugs may fall somewhere in between. If the research into those drugs finds that they are manageable then they should be legalized as well. You must understand that mankind has been using cannabis since before the bible was written down. (calm down Christians, the first scripture came from Moses, not Adam.) It was common in most of antiquity and used as medicine by people all the way until the 1920s. We know it is harmless. Drugs like ecstasy are not so well known. I believe that in order for a man to choose to take in a substance he needs to know what it is he is taking in. Until we know more about these drugs I would feel better if we limited them to being used under doctor's supervision. That is purely my preference. I do not, however, support imprisonment of any person based on possession of any illicit substance. If a man is committing violence or other mischief while under the influence of drugs, he should be arrested for that crime. Everybody else should get treatment, not prison time.
I would however compromise by saying that if a person wants to use hard drugs they should be able to check into a private mental health facility and do it in a safe environment but THEY should have to pay for it. Might be a serious job creator that. As long as they do not pose a danger or financial burden on society I don't see how the government has the right to absolutely ban these substances.
Marchant,
Your aspirin kills 400 people a year. 500 deaths a year are attributed to Tylenol. Marijuana deaths in over 5,000 years? Zero. Of the three, why is the least deadly by far the one that is illegal?
http://norml.org/library/recent-research-on-medical-marijuana
Marchant.... the only thing I can bring to your discusion would be that Psychiatry is the only branch of the Medical profession where nobody is "cured". They are treated for a lifetime yet can never be declared as being cured. That combined with the fact that between shock therapy, lobotomy and multitudes of pharmaceutical issues - the profession has become more of an excuse for errant behavior than any real benefit for society. You will of course disagree with my assesment. But any "Doctor" of Psychiatry will confirm my analysis.
Marijuana use DOES NOT lead to harder drugs..
People who believe that are the same people who believed that "Reefer Madness" was a documentary.
Mexico is fighting this war for us. We should be helping them in any way we can. Many things have to be considered, but we cannot just do nothing and wait it out.
why should we go and fight their problem?Yes we can sit here and wait,they can kill each other and it dont affect me.But when we get involved in everyone else's problems we end up losing our military and other innocent people! Its about time we but out and let them deal with their own @!$%#!
Nikki,
Maybe you did not read the article or have limited knowledge of the history behind this drug war south of the border. This is not their problem. We put the pressure on them to stop the drug traffic into the US. They did not, do not, and have no reason to care if the cartels were unchecked, except for pressure from us. If they just gave up the fight today, the killing in Mexico would drastically slow down, and the problems associated with it in the US would continue to escalate.
Talk to those living in Cali, AZ, Tex, NM and ask them if the violence is spilling over. Phoenix is fast becoming a hotbed for kidnappings. We are the ones supplying the guns to the cartels, so we created their problem with escalating violence. This happened during both President Bush's and President Obama's presidencies, but they are American policies. I do not want to police the world, but ignoring Mexico while they are fighting a fight we asked them to, that is irresponsible.
Im sure no weapons came from south america?Sure when our troops come home?send them to fight the cartels,along with the 30.000 drones we have on order.Grow our own and legalize pot.Id like to see it sold like cigerettes,mabe the taxs could go to the dept.Before the country ceases to exsist.
army, Phoenix is only a hotbed for kidnappings among criminals. The cartels operate here, yes, as do the human smugglers -- maybe they are one and the same. Occasionally in the news we hear about a house being raided in which a bunch of illegals were being held against their will until they paid off their debt to the criminals who brought them here. Sometimes it's just pure drugs, like the guy who came up from Mexico after ripping somebody off down there last year. He thought he could hide out in an apartment in Chandler (Phoenix metro area) and the cops found his beheaded body in that apartment.
We don't need this kind of violence in our cities, but it's not as if it involves law-abiding Americans either. The same is true when I visit northern Mexico, which I do 2 or 3 times a year for beach vacations. If you're not involved with the criminal element, you're not likely to see the criminal element.
The U.S. has indeed put pressure on Mexico to stop the drug trafficking to the U.S., and I think the Mexicans are getting tired of fighting what is mostly OUR drug war. They are not a nation of addicts, we are. They are just the suppliers.
The best way to help is to Legalize all drugs. Check out LEAP.org and hear what many cops on the front lines are thinking. The War-on-Drugs has been nothing but a wast of life, treasure and spirit.
To say the US is selling arms to the Cartels is rediculas. They are getting their arms from arms dealers from any where they can. If there is a dollar to be made illegally someone is going to do it. In the history of this country arms dealers were selling repeater rifles to the Indians before the military could even buy them. After all the wars that's happened there is enough rifles out there to arm every person on this planet and have some left over. I'm willing to bet that pistols are catching up to that count. There are surplus AK-47s and M16s all aver the world.
I thing it is time to make Mexico our 51st State. We are hosting millions of their people who are benefiting from our tax payer dollars. We oust their corrupt government and let the people elect some corrupt American government. The property is valuable and we could help the people by forcing the factories to pay living wages something that we won't do in our own country. We might be able to start a war on drugs there which just feeds the problem and bankrupts the people by jailing the users instead of the sellers just like it did in our country. Come to think of it, Mexico may be better off without us.
Lots of natural resources to exploit! Ocean front property to develop.We might as well since hispanics well be the majority after a while.
That is what should have happened in 1848, when the United States invaded Mexico and took away 80% of their country from them. (Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, California, Utah, Colorado and few other choice areas) There was talk of annexing Mexico then, but too many people hated the Spanish, and so that idea was nixed. I was going to say "too many Americans" but then I realized, anyone born in North America, South America or Central America, "IS" an American.
Mexico has become a major threat to our national security. Time for those idiots in Washington to realize it and do something about it......and that doesn't mean inviting Mexican President Calderon to lecture OUR Congress, like Obama did, on what OUR immigration policy should be. Why is Obama always kowtowing to the leaders of other nations? Because he's an inept coward, that's why.
Do you mean kowtowing like Reagan did when he granted amnesty or Bush W. when he tried to woo Mexican-American votes or his father promoting the fact that he had latin-american grandchildren.
Sounds like the little fraidy cat is you. Maybe you are the paranoid coward.
BTW Our immigration policy does leave suck. But that's the way the Republican corporatists want it. Keep the Mexican slave labor illegal and afraid to seek justice. It makes them more amenable to the boss's wishes.
Absurd statement, it's called diplomacy... contrary to Teabagger's belief you do not have to bomb every country to impose your ideology. Your attitude is bankrupting America economically, militarily and morally.
America could legalize Pot. Then our dope heads could buy all they wanted without so many people being killed for competion of the american drug dollars. Just a thought.
You would have o legalize more than just pot. the Drug Cartels deal all drugs.
@ from texas
Legal pot would put a huge dent in their pocket and allow enforement to be focused on other drugs.
for all of those saying legalizing weed would not have an effect, think again, it is the drug cartels' cash crop. Sadly however, meth is slowly taking over that distinction. This is due to the fact that weed is slowly becoming decriminalized here. So just legalize it all, who has the right to tell someone else what they can put in their body??
Who has the right to tell someone else what they can put in their body? Me. I pay taxes, and out of those taxes go money to pay for the wreckage that comes from using drugs. Failed lives, families, businesses, etc. The cost in human terms is huge. Why should I have to pay for your clinical intervention?
That is ridiculous Boom. You won't pay for clinical intervention but you will pay for long prison sentences. Look it up. Prison costs you MORE than intervention. Do you not realize that it costs more than $40,000 per year per inmate to incarcerate our criminals? Some people need to be incarcerated for the safety of others. Others are incarcerated in mental institutions for their own safety. But nobody should be incarcerated in prison "for their own safety." The entire concept is preposterous.
Failed 40 year drug war. Nothing will change until the laws are relaxed on drugs. A huge part of the population will self-medicate.
Drug cartels have proven to be untouchable, and will remain so as their enterprise is a billion dollar business.
end the war on drugs now! treat drug users instead of imprisoning them so they actually get better. A criminal solution to a medical problem is never going to work. We can put these cartels out of business overnight! This insanity has to stop.
Just, you can't treat someone who doesn't want to be cured. It's like any addiction. Look at the smokers with lung cancer who continue to smoke. Look at the drunks with who won't stop drinking. While I agree with to a degree, treatment of people who WANT to use drugs will not accomplish a thing.
Nor will legalizing them correct the problem. While it might help bring down the cartels, legalizing drugs will not eliminate the abuse and crime associated with it. It hasn't worked with alcohol. It won't with drugs either.
The biggest problem is the presence and power of organized crime, both in Mexico and the US. Ending alcohol prohibition dealt a major blow to the mob in the past, and ending our silly war on (some) drugs would do the same now.
Janine- You're right. I mean, look at the private prison industry and the federal agencies involved in the war on drugs... THEY ARE COMPLETELY ADDICTED TO THEIR BUDGETS. They won't listen to reason, and won't consider changing their behavior even though they know it's illogical and unhealthy.
Sound familiar?
Drug related violence is the fault of prohibition and anyone who supports it.
Its bad law and produces nothing but bad results.
Anyone who supports drug prohibition is just plain evil.
The Country's Own Police NEED to wear Masks - tells you something about the Country's Population!
THE Drugs Are Not the Problem - Its the Population!
Wonder Why the Illegal Mexicans Don't see anything Wrong about Crossing the Boarder?
AND -- WE want to Grant Them Amnesty !
Now that's optimism.........pointing out that the murders have leveled off and are not growing. That's like saying good news your massive blood loss due to the bullet wound has leveled off so your not continuing to drain faster...........oh wait it stopped..........damn he ran out of blood.........nevermind.
The war on marijuana began in 1937 with a bold faced LIE that went UNCHALLANGED (marijuana makes black men wan to rape your white daughters and it makes Mexicans go crazy). That LIE has since morphed into "A Masterpiece In The Art Of Brainwashing".
ANYONE who thinks cannabis (marijuana is a slang term) is anything but a good thing is either brainwashed, a liar, or profiting somehow from it's illegality. Cannabis RELegalization should have happened a long time ago given the lifespan of alcohol prohibition.
Cannabis prohibition has ruined the lives of over 20 million people in just the last 20 years. People like my nephew, who can't and will never be able to get a student loan for college, thus he will never find meaningful employment, thus he will eventually become a BURDEN ON SOCIETY - YOU - the taxpayer.
Wake up, morons. You are only doing more harm than good by keeping this harmless plant illegal.
So it's everybody else's fault that your nephew chose to smoke pot and ruin his life? Good entitlement attitude. Regular pot usage keeps people unable to function in society and support themselves, legal or not. When your life revolves around smoking pot, you have a problem.
Tarzan-
Epic Propaganda Fail. "Regular pot usage keeps people unable to function in society and support themselves, legal or not. When your life revolves around smoking pot, you have a problem."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA Unable to function in society? HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
I applaud you sir. Except I would take it one step higher and legalize all drugs. Legalization, regulation and taxation. You sir put a smile on my face today thank you.
Tarzan, you are a fool. Cannabis has NEVER ruined anyone's life. The police, in their never ending quest to save Americans from themselves have ruined millions of American lives.
Tarzan, you sir are an idiot!
No, it's not everybody elses fault that my nephew was a typically stupid teenager who made a typical stupid teenage mistake. I don't care who you are , all teenagers are stupid, some more than others.
What I am saying is . Because of his stupid mistake - more correctly - because of this STUPID and UNJUST LAW - YOU are going to pay for it. YOUR TAXES fund the only FOR PROFIT PRISON SYSTEM IN THE WORLD. YOUR TAXES fund the CORRUPT, LAZY JERKOFFS masquerading as police officers who see easy targets in harmless pot smokers - usually stupid kids, blacks and hispanics in favor of more "challanging" assignments like domestic disputes, drunk and disorderly, rapes, murders, robberies - you know - important stuff.
Mark,
So true. I can remember when Texas would give life sentences for a roach. How many families were destroyed over these lies? And you are right about the history of the laws. Reading what took place when the first laws were passed would be hilarious if it weren't so real.
I laugh when I hear about "harmless" and healthy marijuana smoking. The current marijuana has more potency than what was around in the 60's and 70's. They have engineered it for THC potency and to increase its addiction property's. While "College" professors still speak about it being a mental addiction, the ignore the fact that current users do actually go through physical withdraw in rehab. It is not a mental addiction- it is physical, just as cigarettes or alcohol. Both of which are legal (barely in the case of cigarettes) and taxed at very high rates. Legalize pot if you want to eliminate it as a problem, but don't do it because it is for health or medical reasons. That is just a lie.
Sorry davey, it doesn't work that way. Stronger pot doesn't increase your chances of overdosing or promote withdrawal symptoms. You just have to smoke less of it.
SonofMollyM
Davey did not say anything about overdosing. He stated that is is addictive just like nicotine in cigarettes. That it is more potent will increase the rate and depth of addiction. Are you going to inhale less deeply to smoke less? He, like I, am open to legalization of MJ. Don't try the argument that if it were legal people would smoke less of it. They don't now and it would be the same drug if it were legal. The one difference might be that it is cut less with other GARBAGE which means it would be cleaner and potentially MORE potent due to quality and not just grow.
And I've been a daily pot smoker since 1977. When I had to stop to pass a drug test, I stopped for 45 days. I was irritable. THAT'S ALL. If you ate ice cream every day and were forced to stop for a month, you'de be irritable too.
Davey doesn't even smoke pot, so how would he know the difference between strains? he just parrots what he hears on TV. And the idiot doesn't even put 2 and 2 together - stronger booze, drink less. Stronger weed, smoke less. LESS!!. LESS!!. LESS!!.
Can you comprehend LESS?
Pot is SAFER than booze. Pot is SAFER than tobacco. Every single reliable unbiased study proves this fact.
@trust_verify-i didn't try to make this into a debate about immigration, that had already been brought up several times. i care much more about the innocent people who are dying over there and wanted to make clear that these aren't just drug dealing thugs who are dying.
marijuana isn't the only drug they move, but it's the majority. legalize it and take a very large part of their business away. it isn't anywhere near as addictive as cigarettes (nothing is), not as bad for you because it isn't smoked the way cigarettes are, and is medically beneficial for many. yes, there is proof of that. if you abuse any substance, it's bad for you but prohibition doesn't work.
disgusted-2777723
I'm no expert in the data but my understanding is that the MAJORITY of pot that America consumes is grown here. Supposedly we grow it with a higher THC content and at the very least it is "cut" with less garbage due to the shorter supply route.
I just don't get the argument though... If we grow it here then a change in legal vs illegal will make no difference. If we legalize it it will make no difference if it is coming from across the border . Using the violence in Mexico as a "reason/excuse" to change the legal status of pot is not valid no matter how we slice it. My understanding is the other illicit activity, coke, heroin, sex trade are where the real money comes from.
LOL on the "how" it is smoked. I am not a smoker of anything but my understanding there is that the ideal method is to "inhale" and hold it... hmm sounds like tobacco to me. As to medical "benefits" if you mean pain/nausea relief then yes it is a benefit. So is alcohol and nicotine in some treatments.
Lets just argue this on the face of it and not debate whether there are benefits to health... Legalization with restrictions, see alcohol, tobacco IMHO is acceptable. Those restrictions include age, place, time and legal definitions to include testing and limits of THC. (Instead of BAC we would have BTC) That includes TAXES that are not used to find new ways to spend but to reduce existing taxes in other areas. Violators of those restrictions are treated as criminals just like with tobacco or alcohol or tax evaders. Absolutely no smoking of MJ while pregnant... We don't need to worry about the males as MJ is proven to reduce testosterone and sperm levels. In it's own way MJ clears the gene pool of those most likely to become addicted in just a few generations.
Prohibition still needs to remain for other drugs.. I can't even see a valid prescription use for most of the others that are used in recreational form. Opiates (heroin) have uses but rarely long term. Cocaine has limited uses but again short term. The detriments FAR outweigh the recreation and there are too many societal negatives.
@truthverify-i never said the majority of marijuana in america comes from mexico, i said that is the majority of what they move. neither you or i knows what their profits are. if it hurts their trade any way to legalize it, i'm for it but that isn't the only reason i'm for legalization. we are getting further and further from the point. as for your LOL (nice), you aren't familiar with smoking or most substance abuse,i'm guessing. marijuana is high in carcinogens, as well as tobacco, but people can't smoke AS MUCH marijuana as they can cigarettes. they consume fewer carcinogens by smoking weed than they do tobacco.
how about posting your own opinions, instead of trying to hard to pick apart others. have a nice evening.
disgusted-2777723
@truthverify-i never said the majority of marijuana in america comes from mexico, i said that is the majority of what they move
Post some citation showing MJ is the majority... if you mean strictly by weight you could be correct but the reality is that coke, meth, x and others make up far more dollars. Also legalization will have little impact on the bottom line of the cartels and thus the violence in Mexico.
I have posted my opines and FACTS with cites. That I choose to counter an argument with my own and FACTS is my choice. It is a PUBLIC forum. If you don't like people countering your views then don't post them. Post BS and I will tear it apart... I expect no less in return.
we ended our discussion at "have a nice evening".
Simple solution to the problem: If people in the US would stop doing drugs there would be no drug market for the cartels to fight over. Of course that will never happen because drug users don't care about anyone else but themselves and doing drugs. The penalties for doing drugs in this country need to be harsher, either stop doing drugs and clean up your act because you are nothing but a detriment to society or be sent to Mexico to face your fate.
Increased sentencing? You won't want to pay for the huge prisons needed which will be larger than sacred military bases.
Yes, we do need to have more harsh penalties for drug use. We are becoming a nation of dopers.
We've arrested 100 million people on drug offenses in the last 40 years . That's ONE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE ........ ARRESTED .....FOR DRUGS .
WoW that plan sure has worked .
More than a TRILLION DOLLARS A YEAR squandered on the "war on drugs" .
That's really working too .
Time to decriminalize and regulate .
Rehabilitate and educate .
Wildwest-
Well, if it's about simplicity, we could all just adopt a compliant attitude towards MURDER, then we wouldn't have to do anything at all! What does your utopian idea have to do with THIS WORLD?
Mike -
Harsher Penalties, huh? Like, throw 'em in jail and throw away the key? Of course, your suggestion fails to take into account that you can't keep drugs out of the prisons that you incarcerate people in for having drugs in the first place! FAIL.
More prisons is the one thing I wouldn't mind paying higer taxes for.
mike must own or work in a prison
Wild- Doing the same thing over again and expecting different results is the definition of crazy. Not to mention how immoral, hypocritical and unjust the drug war and those laws are. Prohibition is the enemy of rational policy and the friend to the cartels.
Mike:
"Becoming" a nation of dopers?
Obviously you weren't around in the '60's!
According to Casteneda, Americans will have to choose between their guns and legalized marijuana- legalize pot in return for repeal of 2nd Amendment? You can't have yer buds and yer bullets. LOL.
Yes I can.
So Mexico's answer to their drug cartel problem is for America to rescind the 2nd Amendment and take away American citizen's guns. The drug cartels would absolutely love that plan, as most of their guns come from the mexican government and they would move into the US with impunity.
Mexican citizens cannot legally own guns. They are at the mercy of organized crime and a corrupt government.
Well if so many of the mexicans that are here in the USA that fly the mexican flag and disrespect our country by asking us to change every thing for them, why don't all of them go to wal mart buy a shot gun and shells and go back and make there country a better place, instead of freeloading off us.
Pissing me off that they disrespect our country in so many ways and want every thing to change for them and our government gives them everything oand doesn't do much for its own people.
Go back to mexico you low lives and fight for your country, most don't want you here.
If you ask most people that are from the USA they will say nuke it and get rid of all the freeloaders from there.
I say we finish what our forefathers started and just run threw mexico and take all of it and make it USA property.
They all want to live in the USA so lets just take the whole mexico and make it that way.
I and my wife had to pay over $7,000.00 dollars to get her papers to stay here and work, but the mexicans get it all free, WTF is that for fairness, also if you go to get a drivers license you can have it in English or spanish but not any other language, that discriminating to all other people that come here.
F them mexicans go the F back we don't want your low life people here messing our country up as you have your own. You at fault for what your country has become, now go back and fix it, leave now don't let the door hit you in the ass as you leave.
Mexico is a sewer of low lives and will always be that way, maybe we should run them all back to spain, it isn't any better, drug all over the places with junkies every place same as mexico, more drugs in spain and mexico then all of the USA and Europe put together.
Kind of tells you what kind of people the latinos are, low lives we don't want around.
Why didn't your ancestor do that? Instead of running away like the cowards that they were. ( If we are using your judgment) Please go educate yourself and stop spreading senseless ignorant comments. Oh don't you forget that the Mexicans you despise so much inhabited the grater parts of the US before colonization. Please crack a book open and EDUCATE your self. PLEASE! Oh PS Mexicans aren't from Spain idiot. They are mestizos. Look it up in an encyclopedia.
ah didn't like what I had to say about your people, funny thing is it is how so many here feel about your mexican people.
Also yes mexicans did come from spain as well as some other places, why do you think mexicans speak spainish and not some other language. go back to school, oh thats right mexico has the worst education in the world or very close to it. most can't even read that come from mexico, and I am not speaking of reading English ether.
Oh and here is a little education for you dip stick. mexicans came from spain mostly. http://answers.yourdictionary.com/history/where-did-mexicans-come-from.html
Stupid mexican
world ideaman, wow!!! your stupidity blows me away. Mexicans come from Mexico not Spain. We speak spanish because Mexico was colonized by Spaniards, just like you speak English due to the British colonization. Not everyone in the US feels and thinks like you about Mexicans or Latinos. I have many friends that are not Latinos and they show and express respect towards my culture as I do to yours and theirs. It's a shame that someone so uneducated believes that he/she is the spokes person for an entire population. My suggestion is that you investigate before opening your mouth.
@ mannymo
Oh sorry some of them as I stated are form mexico wow so F in what, they have a country that is nothing but trash and drugs, so what does that tell you about the people. I would say pretty much says a lot about them. as far as uneducated learn to read all before you comment on others statements, I said not all. DUH homer.
world ideaman, my guess is that you´ve never been to Mexico. All you know about the country and it´s peolpe is what you´ve were told up in that hillbilly school you attended. Mexico has a very big problem because of the carelessness of your goverment to control guns. Mexico did not have this problem 10 years ago. 80-90% 0f the guns confiscated from the drug cartels were illegal arms that came from the US. The US consumes over half of the drugs IN THE WORLD. (and you say that we're the trash). Open your eyes, you are the reason Mexico has this crime problem. But as usual, you people have the comic hero complex, thinking that you are always right and that you are the savers of the world. Well wrong!! you are the cancer of the world!
NEWS FLASH...Mexico has some rather RESTRICTIVE gun control laws... They are working so well aren't they? ONLY Mexican citizens may possess a firearm...Guns can only be purchased at a Military run store in Mexico City. The USA does not allow the sales of Automatic weapons without a Tax Stamp or a FFL. The majority of guns in use in Mexico are AK-47 which are manufactured in China or the former Soviet Block.
The REASON Mexico has a crime problem is it is part of ACCEPTED culture in politics at all levels. Mexico has not been at the same level as the USA as far as civilization/society since the 1880's in that aspect. Mexico complains about the USA on our Southern border yet does the same or worse on their own southern border. Mexico wants the USA to allow free flow of it's people to move here and send money south of the border and to stop the flow of drugs into the USA but has far harsher penalties for those entering through its southern border. Most of the drugs leaving Mexico to the north ENTER Mexico from the south. Last I checked coke, heroin do NOT grow as a native species in Mexico.
More than 68,000 US guns seized in Mexico
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms says many guns involved in Mexican violence were sourced from the US.
The US government has said that 68,000 guns recovered by its authorities in the past five years have been traced back to the United States.
The flood of tens of thousands of weapons underscores complaints from Mexico that the US is responsible for arming the drug cartels plaguing its southern neighbour.
Six years of violence between warring cartels have killed more than 47,000 people in Mexico.
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives released its latest data covering 2007 through 2011 on Friday.
According to the ATF, many of the guns seized in Mexico and submitted to ATF for tracing were recovered at the scenes of drug-related shootings while others were seized in raids on illegal arms caches.
All the recovered weapons were suspected of being used in crimes in Mexico.
Mexico has some rather RESTRICTIVE gun control laws... They are working so well aren't they? I guess you didn't understand the term "illegal guns."
And as far as being civilized, a society whose primary response to a disagreement is to create a war is a civilized society?
I agree, Mexico's goverment is far from perfect, but the crime wave that it's enduring now has more than one party at fault. It's time to face up to whose responsible for what. by the way heroin is produced in Mexico, nothing to be proud of, but it's reality.
http://www.factcheck.org/politics/counting_mexicos_guns.html
Reality is as usual, statistics are bias based on who is trying to make what point.
I did not know that Mexico had poppy fields. I stand partly corrected. Again it depends on who is trying to present what.... Mexican Government says it isn't so... US and UN say it is... lots of reading.
"The estimate is massively off-base," one Mexican official, who requested anonymity, told InSight. “What we have here is the mysterious case of the invisible heroin."
http://www.insightcrime.org/insight-latest-news/item/649-rawfeed-deciphering-mexicos-rise-in-heroin-production
The 2011 United States State Department’s International Narcotics Control Strategy Report says that poppy production increased 31 percent between 2008 and 2009 to 19,500 hectares. This is up from an estimated 6,900 hectares in 2007, close to a 300 percent increase in production, which has caused Mexico, in the State Department’s estimate, to become the world’s second largest producer of poppy.
"While opium poppy cultivation in Mexico is very sparse in comparison to the densities estimated in Burma and Afghanistan, Mexico’s share of global poppy production has been increasing in recent years; estimates show that Mexico surpassed Burma as the world’s second largest poppy cultivator in 2009," the report states. (See Mexico country report here.)
For its part, United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC) relies this production translated into close to 18 tons of heroin produced in 2007, and into 39 tons in 2009 (see p.138). The UN’s International Narcotics Control Board (INCB), in its report issued last week, refers to the UNODC report.
trust_verify, it's a pleasent and enlighting experience to disscuss issues with someone who shows education. Hats off to you. However, having been raised in the US and now living here in my country of birth where I always wanted to return to spend the rest of my life, I can not but feel dissapointment at some of the stupid comments that some biggots post on this site. Mexico is a beautiful country with very hardworking and friendly people. It is a minority that has this country hostage (unfortunately, that minority has high power weapons). Again, I believe it's both countries resposibility to fix it. The migration to the US has declined, hiowever it could pick up again if this problem is not solved. good day to you sir.
mannymo-2538317
Would that be the politicians in PRI (think I have that right) who for years have corrupted the system with money and power?
The primary reason illegal immigration has declined is the broken US economy. It makes less sense to migrate some place where those already there are having no better luck finding work/money than those wanting to to move and do the same. The pool is full so to speak. different debate but I do understand the REASON/DESIRE my issue on that debate is there are those who do so legally every year.. Why reward those who refuse to do so.
Why do people blame the drugs? Its not the drugs fault have you all not looked at any history? Prohibition gave rise to organized crime in the US all because of alcohol being illegal. What gives the government the right to pass judgment and dictate what is immoral to do and what is not. As long as what you are doing is not infringingon any ones personal liberties go for the gusto. To all those people opposed to drug legalization I pose the following question. If drugs were legal would you do them? Or would you still hold your ground and not do them? In any case just because they are legal that doesn't mean that you have to do them, if you dont like them then you wont do them. Right? So isn't it more problematic to try and control other people and try to imposeyour personal preference, that otherwise wouldnt change anyways if drugs were legal. Please rationalize people RATIONALIZE !!!!
I laugh at this>>>Mexico's drug war: No sign of 'light at the end of the tunnel'
Then i thought this>>> Billions if not trillions of tax payers Dollars wasted on War on Drugs in the USA...This war on Drugs been going on since 1971. Then Ex-President Nixon signed his war on drugs into law on 28 January 1972..
40 years later there no light at the end of the tunnel and the tax payers are getting rip off...LOL
Legalized, or simply tolerated, marijuana is not worth one bullet to the cartels. If we want to end this madness then just let users use it and retire all the enforcers. BTW, I just love that Texas idiots idea about executing a few thousand people a month for dealing or using pot. Wow, as though a thousand a month carved up in Mexico isn't enough.
The cartels sell no pot AT ALL in states that allow medical pot. It does, after all , grow like a weed, and the cops haven't got a clue as to who is growing with a pot card and who isn't since they have no access to medical records. They ONLY go out to check if a neighbor complains about the smell
The Banks WANT to see junior get addicted , because THEY are hooked on Drug Money deposits
Whatever would Chase and Wells Fargo do if NY legalized pot? All that illicit money to launder gone poof, their BIGGEST depositors gone
The situation in Mexico cannot improve until the US takes action. First, the US needs jail the government people responsible for sending guns to the Cartels. That might be Holder and Obama since the cover up by Obama has been so profound. Second, the US must extradite US drug users to Mexico for payments that support murder. Let US druggies pay a massive fine in Mexico or rot in a jail. Basically, US druggies (Obama says he was one) support the Cartels and the murders. Send a few Hollywood druggies to Mexico and see what happens. Liberals are killing Mexicans. Why doesn't the media tell the truth? Hispanics should demand that drug users by fined millions of dollars and jailed!
This would not be a problem if Mexico would just create jobs for its people.
We should have taken over Mexico when we had the chance. Their government is impotent and their citizens are cowards who run away rather than trying to make their country (that they are so proud of) better.
Excuse me where are you from? Unless your answer is one of the major indigenous groups native to the Americas please shut the hell up. Those Mexican you talk so much @!$%# about are more American than you will ever be in your entire existence. They have blood coursing through their veins from their ancestors who inhabited these lands thousands of years beforeyour ancestors knew it even existed. Once again knowledge and rationalization win ;)
Those days are gone, pal. Adapt or suffer the consequences. Look how far bichin and moaning have gotten them.
You never answered my question where are you from? Because I sure as hell know you arent native to the Americas. I am, so cmon where are you from?
California born and raised. That makes me native. And don't be mad that the Europeans were better at land grabbing than the Aztecs, Inca, and Maya. If they could have, the Aztecs would have done the same thing the Europeans did. Same with the Mongols, the Chinese, the Egyptians, and the Zulu. So don't try to make this a race thing.
@ Dark Demon
Hey dip stick you need to go back to school, you think the mexicans didn't come from spain, oh that is right mexico has the worst or close to the worst school system around, most can't even read your own language, and if your so proud of mexico why are you here, go back and fight for your country coward we don't want you here if your not for this country, go back and fight instead of bitching here that we don't know what we talk about. as all can see you the under educated dip stick with no backing on your statements.
Mexicans were NOT native Americans.....Apache's killed mexicans on soight!
Rillibtowb I will leave you to the confines of your own minuscule mind. I was born in Texas son, you are from Cali that explains your butthurt behavior. Get educated please maybe on some genetics and some history.
Doby, Mexicans are decentants of Aztec mixed with Spanish and are native to North America. Last time I checked Mexico is part of North America.
Humanity evolved in Africa. All of our ancestors immigrated here. The first people to immigrate to the Americas, 42,000 years age were likely to have been as white as those who immigrated to Europe a few thousand years earlier. Since then there have been repeated waves of immigration across the Bering land bridge and over ice and water. The one we've seen the last 500 years is just the most recent.
It isn't the Mexicans' fault as much as it is their corrupt government's fault.
The Mexican people are not cowards.
What a stupid statement.