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Angelika Warmuth / AFP - Getty Images, file
This combination of photos shows members of Germany's Pirate Party who attended a two-day conference in Neumuenster on April 28.
MAINZ, Germany -- The Pirate Party boarded another ship this week, so to speak, as the upstarts' voyage into German politics startled mainstream rivals.
Their treasure? Nearly 8 percent of the votes in a local election in the country's most populous state and their fourth consecutive entry into a German local state parliament.
"We have written history today, now it is time to party, politics should be fun," said Michele Marsching, head of the local state chapter in Northrhein-Westphalia.
The Pirate Party has based its political agenda mainly on Internet freedom and political transparency. It promotes what it calls "liquid feedback," which involves members making suggestions online. They are discussed in chat rooms before entering the party's internal policy-making process.
Despite, or perhaps because of this unconventional approach, the Pirate Party surprised the country's long-established parties by gaining a reputable 7.8 percent of the vote on Sunday. Meanwhile, Chancellor Angela Merkel's party – the Christian Democrats – had to cope with a huge defeat in Northrhein-Westphalia.
'Learning by doing'
But who are the Pirates? A mostly young motley crew of hip intellectuals and bandana-wearing cyber-politicians, they have openly admitted that they are still "learning by doing" after every new election success.
The Pirates emerged in Sweden six years ago, where they started by campaigning on free downloads for personal use and Internet privacy issues. Germany's Pirate Party now has approximately 30,000 members.
"The party consists of mostly liberal leftists, who have some typical socialist views. But most important is that they promote a new form of politics," Professor Jürgen Falter, a political scientist at the University of Mainz, told NBC News.
Falter says that he has spent hours combing through the Pirates' program, but admits that he had difficulties finding a clear political line in their manifesto.
"Some of the propositions would even require a fundamental change of German laws and a total rethinking of existing party oligarchies," Falter said.
A retired teacher's courageous crusade: Tackling neo-Nazi hate
In fact, some political demands seem rather anarchical: the Pirates are calling for ticket-free public transportation in German cities, funded (as one of many online proposals suggested by members) by tax money. Another demand is the basic income guarantee for all Germans.
However, the party still has difficulties explaining how these projects would be paid for.
'No defined finish line'
What happens, for example, if a foreign tourist needs a bus ticket? No answer yet -- decision-making in progress, the Pirates say.
"Political experts always ask when we are ready to present our program, when we can define all of our goals," says 31-year-old Markus Barenhoff, the deputy chairman of the Pirate Party. "But for us, there is no defined finish line, politics and political decisions are a continuing development process."
Germany's influential Der Spiegel weekly news magazine recently dedicated its cover to Germany's fledgling party and described the young politicians as "amateurs," calling the Pirates' political quest a "grand experiment."
Der Spiegel
Der Spiegel's article portrayed the Pirates as "a party of computer nerds and freaks, a party of political neophytes, electrifying a large share of German citizens."
The Pirates' popularity seems to be the result of a growing political mistrust and disappointment with traditional politicians.
Many analysts in Germany say the Pirates are drawing support from across the political spectrum due to a growing "disenchantment with politics" across Europe.
"Thanks to their fresh anti-establishment attitude they are attracting many new voters, who in the past stayed away from the polls," Falter added. "But they also capture the so-called protest votes, people who are frustrated with conventional politics.
"The Pirates are somewhat naive politicians, but they are democrats, and their success is far better than seeing gains for extremist parties from the Far Left or the Far Right."
3 arrested as Germany cracks down on neo-Nazi extremists
The Pirates' fairytale is reminiscent of the rise of Germany's Green party, which was regarded as little more than a group of radical ecologists when the party appeared on the political landscape 30 years ago. Today, the Greens are a respected "political pillar" and have been part of ruling coalitions.
But while the Greens had a clear political message from the start, the Pirates are still in search of their exact stand on important issues such as the eurozone crisis or defense and security policies.
"We are truly different," says Barenhoff, an IT specialist. "Our focus is set more on political methods than on political content."
Tobias M. Eckrich / Courtesy Pirate Party
Markus Barenhoff is the deputy chairman of Germany's Pirate Party.
If the Pirates do manage to become a permanent player in German parliaments, they could make it tougher for the country's large parties to form majorities. A federal election looms in September 2013.
The Pirates are cautious about whether their current success is sustainable and if it will allow them to gain seats in the Bundestag, Germany's lower house of parliament, next year.
"I believe that we have very good chances to enter the German parliament in 2013, but knowing how rapid things can change in politics, I do not want to give a prognosis for the long term," says Barenhoff. "We are working on the here and now."
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Leave a Comment:
Like a tea party for the left.
If you consider a free and open internet "left wing," then indeed, they are.
At least it's refreshing to see a political party honest enough to call themselves pirates openly.
I do consider a free and open internet and the internet overall left wing. The people clearly control the means of production. Sure the corperations are in charge of what is put on the sites, but we comment and in the end we vote with our "hits".
I'm liberal, but I'm not sure about promoting free downloads. Theft is theft even if its over the internet.
Sounds like your saying the right doesn't believe in Internet freedom and political transparency.
That is not what's meant by "free internet".
Not at all Greg. I think the people who would consider themselves conservative actually hold many liberal views. Things like Individual freedom and political transparency are only afforded to societies that rise up en masse and demand it. The right to vote as an example and democracy itself is a form of socialism. We the people control the means of production (when big money does not interfere).
Thanks greg seriously. Sometimes these boards really challenge/refine your beliefs.
How can there be a t-bag party for the left? No one on the left wants to go backwards in time?
The t-bag party is all about regression, the left is about progression.
When the pirates start trying to repeal the civil rights of American citizens, then we can compare them to the t-baggers.
You really are living in the woods aren't you?
What part do you disagree with?
That rightys want to go backwards in time? Cause I'm pretty sure that is all they ever talk about.
Or
That leftys want to go forward? Again, this is mainly what I hear coming from most folks on the left hand side of the political spectrum.
What is your point?
The similarity between the Tea and Pirate parties is that they both got fed up with polotics as usualy and tried to do their own thing. The similarities end there.
I think we could do with a party similar to the pirates. Call it the Ninja Party or something though.
ManFromNantucket, that same argument could be used to describe OWS. I think you are being to general trying to compare the Pirates to the Tea Party.
They really have nothing in common.
livinginthewoods,
Without advocating for either side, it is generally true that conservatives abhor change and liberals embrace it. However, using terms like "forward" and "backward" is legitimate only if all change is beneficial. I do not subscribe to that theory.
Sounds like the Sparticists that were in Berlin in 1919. Only this time it is keyboards instead of rifles and barricades in the newspaper quarter.
I wonder if the SPD will squash this movement, too???
Except they have no responsibility or requirement to work for a living.
most important is that they promote a new form of politics
They are really onto something by having discussions on chat first. Just look at msnbc's blogs and see how easy it is to identify different lines of thought, and, in the case of a political party, which ones would seem to be relevant enough to carry up one more stage to serious party discussion. Really a good idea.
Oh dear, Dan, do you know any of these pirates personally?
I imagine most of them are freelancers and are quite smart.
I don't know them either, but I'm not going to write them off as basement dwellers out of hand.
8% of the vote, AAaaaRRRRRR! Walk the plank matie.
What 'Occupy' could be if they had a game plan, some clear objectives, leadership, and direction.
They are NOT left wing.
"The party consists of mostly liberal leftists, who have some typical socialist views."
Its possible that they are not left wing and the writer is biased. Frankly I think when "socialist views" are discussed individually they are quite centrist. Entitlements like weekends, lunch breaks, paid vacation, and retirement (just to name a few) were all were all aquired by the socialist movement.
Sounds like the Fourth Reich has gone on line....
Well, that's a nice little bit of spin there, lilli. But, please explain how you can really compare these guys to nazis. Seems to me, like they are pushing a populist agenda. How is that, at all close to a fascist dictatorship? It's the exact opposite!
By today's standards, they are very left wing. You have to understand though, they are not a political party in the same sense as republican and democrat, they are trying to promote new ways of thinking. They include people from both ends of the spectrum, but due to their nature and the fact that they are pushing for transparency and more freedom, I would consider them much more left wing than right.
@ Lollipop:
This lot are not the 4th Reich..... Pretty far from it.
"All things in moderation" was one of my Dad's favorite quotes. Seems like politics could use a little of his sage advice.
Everything in excess. To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites.
Moderation is for monks.
R A Heinlein
Change happens when extremes are in control, but it's always painful for the opposing side and weary for those in the middle. Moderation is good but it sure gets boring day after day.
Opinionated Arse -
I prefer an adjusted one from the original:
All things in moderation. Especially moderation.
I thought everybody used the internet and social networking to learn about and discuss pending legislation. Is how we know not to adopt laws and systems that haven't been fully thought out, like a public transit system that magically pays for itself or THC Limits that aren't accurate.
Most public transit systems already receive government subsidies and sell advertising space; if they charged the real cost-of-use, nobody would be able to afford to use it in most locations (aside from real dense super-cities like New York). For example, a cost-of-use monthly pass in San Diego would be somewhere in the neighborhood of $200-$250... so it's just a matter of increasing the subsidies and/or advertising in order to cover the full cost of the service. In most cases, the subsidies already cover over 60% of the cost, so would need to be increased to less than double what they currently are.
Of course the sensible thing would be to end the subsidies. Let the uneconomic systems fail and the economic ones prosper. The free market is the best allocator of resources.
Political parties are increasingly becoming an obstacle to democracy, by pure partisan politics they are not executing the will of the people and become an instrument of obstruction. Perhaps political systems need to be changed to become what they should be, a instruments of the people and not the other way around.
Joachim,
Generally speaking you are correct from a Political Science point of view. More parties works against consensus government. There's seldom "majority rule" because it's so difficult to achieve. Instead you have "pluralty rule". In this case one party or two can obstruct the possibility of a majority.
Another obstacle to democracy is a near perfect 50/50 split as you have in the USA. Again no majority rule. Each side is diametriclly opposed and unwilling to compromise. This is the condition today in the US. Similar to the condition in the US on April 12, 1861 when Fort Sumter was bombarded to begin America's first Civil War. Certain writs and rights were suspended and proclamations became the order of the day. Naturally, such political conditions become a major obstacle to democracy, probably much worse than pluralty rule.
Political parties that have a Weltanschauung mentality (a rigid world view) are trouble. They, by and large, are not too welcome in Germany today - such rigidity of the parites in the 1920's were a factor in weakening the Weimar Republic in the first place.
Joachim-1391975 - You've summed up quite nicely why democracy does work nor will it ever make a plausible government. When you say "the will of the people" what you actually saying is the will of the majority. The purpose of the government is in no way supposed to be about the will of the people. To try and simplify the complexity of governing to the "will of the people" is just plain silly. For starters you will never have a single will. We are far to diverse a people to believe that. Democracy is nothing more than dictatorship by the majority.
That's true, the whims of the mob. Our Founders were fearful of democracy. That's why they formed our government with checks and balances to prevent the mob from running roughshod over the rights of the individual. To a large extent, our Constitution and Bill of Rights are prohibitions on the ambitions of the mob. They forbid government from doing certain things. They divide the power, put one faction in opposition to another, in order to limit the damage the mob can do. Unfortunately, our Constitution is being undermined by the mobs on the left and right, but particularly by the Socialist Progressives, who want government to control everything, seize the wealth of the productive, and bribe the ne'er do wells to vote to keep them in power.
Exactly how the NAZI party started.
Huh?
I knew it wouldn't take long for somebody to make that boneheaded comment.
And another group of idiots enters the fray in European politics so as to cause even further trouble. They have a bitter pill to swallow over there and their answer is Chaos. We'll be next if the left here has it's way. Entitlement mentality leads to Chaos, here just like there. The next step is a dictator will step up and kick ass and the Euro's will bend over and take like Ned Beatty in Deliverance, it'll be the same here . Can anyone say "Squeal"?
@oregonjoker: How is it chaos to promote rapid, open discussion? I suppose because they don't wake up at the same time every day and tune into the same media outlet to get their talking points for the next 24 hours, that makes them the cause of all things evil. I have a little message for all you dittoheads and FauxNews followers:
"If you don’t like change, you’re going to like irrelevance even less."
Indeed!.....here we go again!
Most people have no idea that Hitler originally posted Mein Kampf to his blog on WordPress.com, and that the early Nazi party used Twitter and Facebook to organize Kristallnacht.
It's fascinating the similarities between these two groups.
Sign me up for the American version of this political party! This is exactly what we need. I hope the OWS organizers are watching this.
Great lets get the blind to lead us over the cliff . This is why I stay stoned and try not to think of how the idiots have taken the asylum. I feel like I'm beginning to live in the movie "The King of Hearts". It's just getting nuttier day by day. And Woody here is willing to let people who can't even hold a reasonable rally with out falling into Chaos take the reigns of power and turn us all into the Luddites he worships.
What's the alternative? Privatized government? More of the same? No thanks! Whiners need to shut up and pay their damn taxes!
oh yeah, like the 2-party system works really well over here
Luddites!? Their whole ideology revolved around the fear of change and progress brought on by the industrial revolution. Sounds alot more like the current repubs and other conservatives than these guys.
What kind of self respecting pothead would be a conservative, anyway? The @!$%# you get must be pretty good cause you sound awful confused. Must be nice to live on the west coast and enjoy all those liberal laws while sitting back and bitching about em.
There is currently a growing US Pirate Party is you are truly interested.
http://us.pirate.is/
Everybody aboard!
Same as the Tea Party a lot of hooting and hollering but no substance.
More along the lines of the liberal/progressive lines. How are you going to pay for it? We don't know. Oh yes we do. Here's a way:Tax and spend, tax and spend. Give me, give me, give me. Everybody should be guaranteed income whether they work for it or not.
Yep, sounds a whole lot like the lib/prog's
Your right in that the TEA party is interested in retuning to the original constitution and forgoing entitlements . Their interested in the process and restoration of it , not putting up candidates, so there they differ. But to say the TEA party lacks substance is to show you know nothing of them or what they believe, you must have been listening to the left.
Blah, blah blah.... Good luck trying to go back in time. It ain't gonna happen. The America you knew is gone and it's never coming back, time to look forward.
Liz,
And it was the hooting and hollering in Cairo and Alexandria that turned out to be substance free for Egypt during the Arab Spring?
Its true that the like the Tea Party this Pirate Party currently lacks in substance. Yet, unlike the Tea Party which offered nothing new, the Pirate's have developed a new approach to party platform building which is both savvy to current technologies and seeks new ways for democratic inputs to flourish.
Obviously the party is intended to have tongue firmly planted in cheek. Yet the concept of member participation having immediate affect and input into party direction is a solid concept that actually hints at depth.
The liquid feedback seems like a good idea. I would like to see the D & R challenged by a party who actually represents the needs of the country rather than hard line "my way or no way" we get now. The parties we have now would rather the USA went down the tubes than compromise & do what is needed. Fire these stubborn, narrow minded fools. Vote.
and who would you put in their place? Obamaites, Bushers? Your choice can only be the lesser of many evils but your never going to get anyone who isn't interested in self promotion first with a Democratic for of governance. Ego maniacs, and despots come from our current way but the only other route is totalitarianism so what ya gonna do? Personaly I'm gonna light a blunt and smoke them all out.
We need a centrist party. Fiscally conservative (centrally) and socially liberal (centrally), like most Americans. We need to get away from this intrenched two-party system. Unfortunately the only options (Green, Libertarians, etc.) are just more types of extreme. It won't happen in my lifetime, though. The hill is too steep for a true third party.
Don't bet on it not happening in your lifetime. When the republican party collapses early next year, another conservative party will have to rise in their place. (wishful thinking?)
The libertarians would not be the worst replacement. They may be corporate shills like most repubs but, at least they use logic and reason as their motivator instead of hiding behind the archaic dogma of 3000 year old middle eastern mythology.
True, of the current Right Wing groups in the US the Libertarians are the closest to having a cogent platform. It's still a naive system, but at least it has a systematic approach.
The problem is that just like with liberals in the Democratic party there are very few actual Libertarians in the GOP. It's more a "sexier" sounding title that neo/paleo-cons like to take up, so that they can pretend to be a little less status quo. I live in the South so basically everyone here is a neo-con, but they all claim to be Libertarian. Yet all of them are into the neo-con big government pillars like military buildup, corporate welfare, and invasion of personal liberties.
So while I agree it's possible that in our life time we'll see a Libertarian Party brand. It will likely just be a repackaged neo-con GOP pretending to be relevant.
Why do you believe that a compromise between the positions of the two parties is what the nation needs? It is as likely to result in the worst of both platforms being enacted. Even if the result would be the best of both party platforms being enacted, that could still be devastating to the nation and its individual citizens.
Likely the better result is gridlock, where neither party gets to impose its harebrained schemes on the populace. There's an old saying that no news is good news. Do less. Spend less. Tax less. Now that approaches nirvana.
Clearly these pirates (who of course are His "chosen people") are doing the work of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. His Noodlyness must be proud!
Go in Peace and Saucyness!
RAmen! (and an extra FSM "blessing" to you if you actually know what I'm talking about).
Repent fools! And, bask in the glory of his noodley appendages or be smitten by his mighty garlic bread of justice!
Randy - love it. I am touched by his noodly appendage as well. Pasta be upon you, for he boiled for your sins. He created everything, even a midget.
It sounds like the best heaven to me - a beer volcano and stripper factory. Now THAT"S my idea of Heaven.
Ramen
They must get rid of Markus Barenhoff . Complete idiot.
Didn't he win 40% of the Dem primary vote in WV?
(Compare the pictures)
I bet most of these folks are simply ass-pirates.
Prepare to be boarded! Arrrggggg!
Watch out... I have a very sharp cutlass ready for you... soon you will be wearing a wooden peg there...
"However, the party still has difficulties explaining how these projects would be paid for."
You silly capitalist ... paid for??? don't you get it ... its free!!! Geesh ... when everyhting is free, the term "paid for" no longer has any meaning. All liberal leftist Europeans know that.
Oh pay for it? Just like the obamites, lets just tax the rich! Never actually giveing thought to anything.
The "rich" have had a free ride for going on forty years, and that, plus the rising costs of healthcare in our corrupt, privately-insured system, has cost the nation greatly.
Get off your shiny, tax-sheltered high horse, and rebuild the country with those of us who actually work for a living.
Rich folks, your day in the barrel is coming. Like it or not.
Close ALL corporate tax loopholes. Put a 25% sales tax on shares of publicly traded companies and traded commodities. Put a 50% tax on all capital gains over 500,000$ a year. Put a tax of 50% on all income over 2million$ a year. Tax ANY money leaving the country at about 25-50%. Require ANYONE who works and makes more than 10thousand$ a year to pay at least 1-5% income tax. Shift the focus of our military from policing the world, back to defense and lower the military budget. Put in place heavy corporate regulation, including legislation that would not allow any employee to make more that 10x the amount of the lowest paid employee.
I think that would more than pay for it.
Rich folks, your day in the barrel is coming. Like it or not.
Your ideas would remove most of that wealth you are counting on taxing by encouraging them to leave the country. Question for you, then. Once the rich people take their cash and flee - and they would, if even 1/3 of your ideas were to be put into play - then what would you do?
And we tried that "defense begins at home" idea. Charles Lindbergh was leading that group in the late 1930's and early 40's. How'd that work out for us? Pearl Harbor ring a bell for you?
Strait from the mouth of Eric, a member of the US version of the OWS/Pirate Party where everything need and want is provided for by someone else.
eric: "Once the rich people take their cash and flee - and they would"
And go where? Before Bush became president, he never left the USA--not even to visit Mexico or Canada. And they might find the taxes here better than "there!"
I love the sound of chaos, it means change is on the way.
I say we take action before they get too powerful...let's Occupy the Internet.
wait....I thought that we got "change" in 2008.....you mean there's more? Worse?
Would you rather have complacency and capitulation instead? The Nazis came to power because few got involved to oppose them. The internet, for better or worse, is here to stay. Like any medium, it can be used for good or ill. The one advantage the internet has over books; the Nazis burned books and newspapers, but the internet, with its massive army of servers, can withstand a great deal more abuse and still keep on delivering words and ideas.
Definately what is needed - another clueless political party who can't wait to spend money they don't have.
Definately what is needed - another clueless comment from Jsternh.....
fake mustache - Sounds like you two have had it out before!
A political party that has a vague agenda and no solid plans to fund their proposals? Sounds like any other political party to me. Welcome aboard.
a line from a movie.... a little revolution every now and tnen is good for the country...
government has gotten too big plain and simple. tis country is too big. there are states that would be better off witout national help. then there are states that can not seem to function without natiional help. so make the usa smaller. a group of permananty allied, but serparate countries would work better for the people living in that section. if a coorperation gets to big do we, here in the usa, not force it to brake up?
If that was the case, the big banks would have been broken up instead of bailed out(which would have been great).
I agree revolution is needed here and now but, I want to go in the opposite direction and dissolve the state governments instead of the federal government.
We need something like that here in Mexifornia. Right now all we have is the Clown Party in Sacramento and one-party control is expensive.....................
The U.S. needs a Pirate Party. A political party that doesn't take itself so seriously and addresses issues as they come up rather than plotting and scheming all the time.
It must be the equivalent to the DNC.
Much like the OWS, a Party full of idiots with no cares and the "live off someone else" phylosophy.
Dan: "Much like the OWS, a Party full of idiots with no cares and the "live off someone else" phylosophy."
Dan, I'm afraid YOU'RE the idiot here--many of OWS are mature, well-educated WORKING citizens who care so much that they actually object to the 1% who are living off us 99%--and were willing to put themselves on the line to protest.
How did they brainwash you to vote against your own self-interests?
HEheHEheHEhe....... "4th Reich"...... Hehehehehehe, everyone know its 3 reichs and your out!!!!
The internet is and will continue to transform democracy. I believe eventually the focus will be on using the internet to develop consensus around pragmatic solutions that work. Who cares if its a Republican or Democrat idea, what's most important is does it work. Also let's make it easy to vote by allowing citizens to vote on line.
It appears that the intelligence of German voters is starting to approach that of many American voters - "many do no have a clue".
Oh really? Voting for new ideas (in an otherwise ideological stalemate) is 'having no clue'? Typical voters for the pirates probably more likely have a college degree, as opposed to many democrats and many stubborn fans of the GOP, the party that is now pandering to the weakest links of society with their fundamentalist rhetoric, expensive military budgets while preaching their FAKE trickle-down-religion and more tax-cuts for the rich!
Looks to me like the two-party system that we have in this glorious democracy is a last hold-over from the Cold War Era, when the 'bad guys' had the ONE PARTY system...and unless people with fresh ideas plunk down hundred of millions, no NEW PARTY could play in the elite political game!