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Subscribe to RSSIn Greece, a senior judge is to be put in charge of a caretaker government to run the country until a new General Election on June 17. Questions are growing over whether the country's finances will last that long. Hundreds of millions of euros have been withdrawn from Greek banks in recent days over fears of a departure from the euro - and return to a devalued drachma. Jonathan Rugman, Channel Four Europe reports.
Updated at 12:05 p.m. ET: Political leaders in Athens were due to discuss an emergency government Wednesday to deal with a possible run on banks as it emerged Greeks withdrew almost $900 million in a single day, fearing their country could crash out of the euro currency by the end of the week.
An interim government would take the country through to new elections on June 17, triggered by the collapse on Tuesday of talks to form a coalition between winners of the inconclusive May 6 election.
Greeks are withdrawing euros from banks, apparently afraid of the prospect of rapid devaluation if the country leaves the European single currency and returns to the drachma.
President Karolos Papoulias warned of “great fear that could develop into a panic,” the minutes of Papoulias' negotiations with political leaders showed, according to Reuters.
The minutes also reveal Papoulias was warned by George Provopoulos, head of the country’s central bank, that savers withdrew at least 700 million euros ($894 million) on Monday, Reuters said.
"Withdrawals and outflows by 4:00 p.m. when I called him exceeded 600 million euros and reached 700 million euros," the president said according to the minutes of the meeting. "He expects total outflows of about 800 million euros."
The country's economy is in a meltdown, raising fears that Greece will exit the Euro Zone completely and default on its huge pile of debt. NBC's Brian Williams reports.
Several banking sources told Reuters similar amounts had also been withdrawn on Tuesday. Nevertheless, there was no sign of panic or queues at bank branches in Athens on Wednesday. Bankers dismissed suggestions that a bank run was looming. A senior executive at a large Greek bank told Reuters: "There is no bank run, no queues or panic. The situation is better than I expected. The amount of deposit withdrawals the president mentioned referred to three days, not one."
Still, some were taking no risks. Jenny P., an Athens private medical clinic receptionist originally from Ohio, told msnbc.com she had withdrawn 85 per cent of "what's left" in her bank account.
"We could have a new currency in a couple of days and nobody knows for sure what will happen," she said. "There are no lines to withdraw money, but maybe that's because many Greeks have precious little left in the bank. Many have been surviving on [$500] 400 euros a month, which has to cover tax, bills, food and medical costs."
She said she was planning to return to the United States amid the economic turmoil which has left her Greek husband unemployed. "It is hard to see what the future will be here," she said.
Greeks have already been withdrawing their savings from banks at a sharp clip - nearly a third of bank deposits were withdrawn between January 2010 and March 2012, reducing total Greek household and business deposits to 165 billion euros.
A senior bank executive said there had been withdrawals in recent days but there was no sign yet of a panic, as had happened in April 2010 when eight billion euros were withdrawn just before Greece obtained its first foreign bailout.
The political vacuum in Greece has hampered the country’s chances of making the budget cuts required by the European bailout deal. Without more austerity measures, the flow of bailout money will dry up, raising the prospect of a euro exit with all its wider ramifications.
Yannis Behrakis / Reuters
Two men withdraw money from an ATM in central Athens May 16, 2012.
The likelihood of a Greek exit from the euro – dubbed the "Grexit" by commentators – is now so high that even political leaders committed to avoid it admit preparations are under way.
Asked in an interview whether Greece could leave the euro zone, IMF director Christine Lagarde replied: "We certainly don't hope so, from the IMF point of view ... but we have to be technically prepared for anything".
Will there be a run on Greek banks?
A Twitter image shared by economics blogger Tyler Durden, posted on UK website Zero Hedge, showed what appeared to lines outside ATMs in Greece, although it was impossible to verify where the picture was taken or if lines were longer than normal.
Reuters reported early Wednesday that there has “so far been no sign” of lines at banks in Athens, despite the likelihood that an exit from the euro would see a dramatic devaluation in of Greek currency.
CNBC’s John Carney raised the prospect of reduced limits on ATM withdrawals, citing a calculation by London analysts Capital Economics that if every working-age Greek withdrew the maximum permitted ATM amount of 300 euros a day, every single deposit of Greek households would be gone within 61 days.
“So the controls put in place in advance of an exit from the euro would have to include not only limits on moving funds abroad, but limiting withdrawals from ATMs and possibly declaring a bank holiday,” Carney wrote.
In practice, however, any Greeks lucky enough to possess any savings have already taken the precaution of withdrawing them from banks.
“Over the last two years Greeks withdrew approximately 70 billion euros from their bank accounts, an amount equivalent to approximately 35 percent of Greek GDP,” Dr Michael Arghyrou, senior economics lecturer at Cardiff Business School in Wales told msnbc.com.
“This is a negative demand shock of enormous proportions and with increased uncertainty this trend will almost certainly accelerate. So yes, we will almost certainly see more deposits withdrawals over the next few days, I just hope is that they will not be so large as to lead to a full-blown bank run.”
How likely is ‘Grexit’? Are drachma notes being printed?
A year ago, it was nearly impossible to get officials and political leaders to talk about the possibility of Greece leaving the eurozone. Now it appears to be an open secret.
Yorgos Karahalis / Reuters
A man makes his way past a replica of a one drachma coin outside the Athens Town Hall May 15, 2012.
Ireland's central bank chief and European Central Bank policymaker, Patrick Honohan, signaled on Sunday that a Greek exit might not be as painful as previously thought.
"Technically, it can be managed," he told reporters. "It would be a knock to the confidence for the euro area as a whole ... It is not necessarily fatal, but it is not attractive."
The tone from the European Commission, the EU's executive, has shifted too.
On Monday, spokeswoman Pia Ahrenhilde-Hansen said: “We wish Greece will remain in the euro and we hope Greece will remain in the euro ... but it must respect its commitments. Greece has its future in its own hands and it is really up to Greece to see what the response should be.”
Asked about contingencies, she did not rule them out.
Reuters quoted one European Commission official saying: "Clearly, the future of Greece is in the Eurozone. We are working on that. The 16 other governments in the Eurozone really are at the end of their patience with Greece. There isn't room or any willingness to move. The decisions are really in Athens' hands. But it doesn't look good."
However, the official response remains that a Greek exit is not being considered.
In an interview with NBC News on Wednesday, Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor, said: "I have the will, the determination, to keep Greece in the Eurozone. I think it will be good for Greece and good for all of us. We want Greece to stay in the Eurozone."
Some commentators have pointed to a 13 percent rise in the share value of British firm De La Rue, which is the world’s largest currency printer, amid speculation it is best placed to pick up the contract for issuing new versions of the drachma, the Greek currency phased out in 2002.
It has remained tight-lipped on whether it is working for the Greek government, but in the meantime an interim solution has been mooted in which existing euro notes would be converted into drachmas by being endorsed with an official stamp.
Would a 'Grexit' be so bad? If so, what are the alternatives?
Lagarde said a Greek exit from the Eurozone would “have consequences on growth… consequences on trade and…consequences on financial markets “. She added: “You can certainly assume it would be quite messy."
Global financial institutions have a $536 million exposure to Greek debt, according to the latest figures from the International Monetary Fund, although almost all is borne by France, Germany and other key European economies.
The Institute of International Finance has estimated that the global cost of a Greek exit could hit $1.2 trillion, according to the Daily Telegraph in London. When Argentina defaulted in 2001, foreign debtors lost around 70 percent of their investments, it said.
The Telegraph said a report in Germany’s Wirtschaft Woche magazine forecast that a Grexit would cost the Eurozone governments alone $300 billion, pushing the whole European economy – which narrowly avoided entering recession on Tuesday by recording exactly zero quarterly growth - into a crisis not seen since the 1930s.
Many are looking at the possibility that Athens issues IOUs to meet salaries and key service bills for a fixed period, much in the way California did during its budget crunch in 2009 when it issued 'registered warrants' with a coupon in place of dollar salaries and which banks then accepted for cash.
Much hinges on whether the European Central Bank would allow the Greek central bank to accept such IOUs and there's little clarity on those hypotheticals.
However, strategists believe any Greek government IOUs would quickly act as a proxy for a new drachma and exchange values against the euro would mostly likely plummet in practice as people rushed to cash out - offering Greeks a glimpse of the shock of devaluation in a euro-ised economy with euro-denominated debts.
"I'm really not sure Greece could survive for very long if external money was cut off," said Darren Williams, economist at fund manager AllianceBernstein. "But what an experience of IOUs may do rather quickly is bring home to the average Greek citizen just how much more difficult a place it is outside the bailout programme and outside the euro."
What would happen to the euro?
Besides the huge liabilities, there is the risk that a Greek exit from the euro would set a precedent for the possible exit of other weakened economies including Spain and Portugal.
"Opening up the Pandora's box of exit means deposit risk across the periphery,” an RBS analyst told Reuters.
Jan Randolph, head of sovereign risk, IHS Global Insight, told the BBC: “It would be difficult for the [European Central Bank] to keep banks afloat. The Greek banking sector would collapse as well. What happens next is a political question. European nations would probably not accept another Western European country descending into chaos and collapse.”
What is the political future for Greece?
Rampant inflation, civil unrest and even a return to dictatorship could be on the cards, analysts warn.
Arghyrou told msnbc.com: “There will be no credit for Greek banks or the Greek state. That could mean a shortage of basic commodities, like oil or medicine or even foodstuffs.
The country would end up in a volatile period. There would be institutional weakness. The worst case scenario would be a social and economic breakdown, perhaps even leading to a totalitarian regime.”
Henry Wilkinson, head of analysis at the Risk Advisory Group, said: "We are entering into unknown territory and it remains profoundly unclear what actually will happen. I wouldn't overstate it, but I think the big concern out of all of this is that in times of great uncertainty and hardship, more extreme parties tend to find greater resonance with their message."
Roger White, an American private tutor who moved back to the United States from Greece three weeks ago to escape the economic crisis, told msnbc.com: "I see violence on the Greek horizon. Will the Greeks continue to withdraw their savings? Yes, for as long as they can. Then, the government will intervene with limits on withdrawals and other controls. Then, Greeks will protest in the streets, light banks afire, smash bank windows and rip out ATMs.
"Oddly, I can say that in many ways my Greek experience gave me wonderful opportunities. Nonetheless, my epiphany came when Greece's economic collapse and the government's implosion revealed just how reliant on the government we are, and just how vulnerable to government mismanagement we are."
Reuters contributed to this report.
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Leave a Comment:
Your watching a microcosm of America sans fall of 2012.....thanks Obama.
No more Big Fat Greek Weddings .. just little little tiny ones
Hey......Stupid liberals of America. Be prepared because the same thing is going to happen in the United States with a Socialist at the helm. You can't take money from the middle class to support the poor forever. obama is doing that to get the poor vote and the free-loader vote. This corrupt administration is going to bankrupt this country. We are the next Greece but worse becasue of the debt this Socialist has put us in. War is next.
A nasty 'full-of-hatred' racial war is next after everyone takes sides like in Croatia/Serbia......too many shoulders with chips.
Hey stupid conservatives. PROVE IT. Post facts from reliable sources. Actually quit parroting Faux Lying News, Rush The Propgandist Limbaugh and the rest of the Right Wing Propagana Machine. You state "Be prepared because the same thing is going to happen in the United States with a Socialist at the helm". PROVE IT. PROVE President Obama is a "Socialist". Prove that he thinks you need to milk the Middle Class and that he does not agree that you "can't take money from the middle class to support the poor forever."
You are a conservative, mindless drone. Now either back it up, or shut up.
The only thing that is going to destroy our country is the bitter partisanship between Republicans and Democrats.
And I agree 100%. I was only responding in kind to the previous comment. And respectfully, you will also notice that so far, no proof has been offered to counter my admittedly stinging response. But again respectfully, I am simply fed up with conservatives who constantly spout the same line of right wing propaganda BS, then have literally no proof to back it up.
But that does not change the fact my tit-for-tat response should have been more reasoned and definitely should not have stated "stupid conservatives". Especially considering the fact that using that particular term is definitely a generalization not based on facts. There are many conservatives out there who are intelligent and well reasoned in their responses. For them, I always respectfully disagree if we cannot come to a general consensus. Also, please read my later comment on this page concerning cooperation between the two parties.
Progressive,
I posted this earlier but here it comes again . You want facts here smoke this for a while:
We have incurred $5.7 Trillion in 'stimulus' deficit spending since the end of fiscal 2008, for a 57% increase in the National Debt, which has resulted in only a 4% increase in economic growth (GDP). The debt is increasing far faster than any growth in the economy could possibly compensate for.
That fact sums it all up for your brand of Obmanomics.Nuf said?
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57400369-503544/national-debt-has-increased-more-under-obama-than-under-bush/
BTW do you deny Obama wants to "spread the wealth"? Do you deny he wants to take more from the rich and give it to the poor under the BS banner of "paying the fair share".
Every time I hear the we just want them to pay their "fair share" crap it makes me want to puke. Just because someone EARNS more doesn't mean they should pay even more in to form of a higher tax rate. They already pay more in terms dollars.
ProgressiveforAmerica - I've always been of the opinion that if someone's argument is based on nothing more than name calling they really don't have a position to stand on in the first place. Your never going to change a person like that's position so I say just let them beat their head against the wall. The vitriol back and forth attacks on the vine are getting progressively worse. The only way that will ever change is to simply ignore it. Most are just trolls looking to rile someone up. I've let myself get sucked in a few times but try not to stoop to name calling.
"oregonjoker" first off, we have not "incurred $5.7 Trillion in 'stimulus' deficit". We have incurred debt based on funding the government. ALL THE GOVERNMENT. The stimulus was less than a trillion dollars. AND IT WORKED.
And the reason growth is so low is DIRECTLY related to the obstructionist Republicans in Congress and their total lack of cooperation with either the President or the Democratic party. As the recent Washington Post Op-ed clearly and 100% ACCURATELY states:
"We have been studying Washington politics and Congress for more than 40 years, and never have we seen them this dysfunctional. In our past writings, we have criticized both parties when we believed it was warranted. Today, however, we have no choice but to acknowledge that the core of the problem lies with the Republican Party."
"The GOP has become an insurgent outlier in American politics. It is ideologically extreme; scornful of compromise; unmoved by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science; and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition."
oregonjoker - Let me preface my comment by saying that I am a Republican and would like nothing more than to see President Obama voted out in November. That said, the numbers you posted would have virtually the same had McCain been elected 4 years ago. Our deficits were caused by the sharp reduction of tax revenue caused by the 2008 mortgage crisis. The TARP money that was spent was going to be spent regardless of who was elected. It was necessary to keep our economy from completely tanking.
Tracy1973
BTW do you deny Obama wants to "spread the wealth"? Do you deny he wants to take more from the rich and give it to the poor under the BS banner of "paying the fair share".
I categorically deny it. First off, the reason the national debt has risen rapidly is because the George W. Bush economy was a house of cards. It was based on MASSIVE consumer debt, the LOWEST job growth since the end of WWII and an ENORMOUS bubble housing market that fueled huge consumer spending and jobs that were temporary, not permanent.
As for your second point, President Obama is not trying to "take from the rich and give to the poor". Anymore than Eisenhower was when the wealthy were taxed at a 90% tax rate after their first million dollars earned. Instead, he is trying to stop the ENORMOUS REDISTRIBUTION of wealth that has occurred over the last 30 years and in particular the last 12 from the lower, lower middle and middle classes, to the top 5% of wealthy Americans.
Which is EXACTLY what he should be doing.
ProgressiveforAmerica - The gap between the rich and rest of society began to separate rapidly during the 1990's dot com boom. During that time corporations began to shift their focus from the customer to the stock holder. Growth and profit became more important than customer satisfaction. Those who were turning ridiculous profits were rewarded with ridiculous pay packages. That trend has continued ever since. I don't think President Clinton was any more responsible for what happened in the 1990s than President Bush was for the housing boom. There is no doubt about both bubbles effect on our economy. Here is a chart I made up based on the monthly spending report put out by the Treasury Department. It show the the income/outlays for the federal government back to 1980. You can clearly see the dot com and housing bubble as well as the disastrous results of both popping. I believe this chart also makes clear that no amount of taxation is going to fix our deficits. Any talk of taxes from both side appears to me as nothing more than rhetoric.
As for what we should be doing... Personally I think we should be using these issues to force the government to clean up its operations. I don't think we need to cut programs just make them more efficient. I wish we could see for each government organization just how much they spend to deliver one dollar of service. Similar to what is required of charities. For every dollar how much goes to overhead and how much is returned to the public in the form of a service.
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B7Dr-isEoQsBNzMzZGMxYzEtM2VhYi00OGJkLWIzMWItYTY0MjhhOTU2ZjFj
"I categorically deny it."
Really? I guess you don't listen all that well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRPbCSSXyp0
"First off, the reason the national debt has risen rapidly is because the George W. Bush economy was a house of cards"
You got you facts pretty screwed up...
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57400369-503544/national-debt-has-increased-more-under-obama-than-under-bush/
"Instead, he is trying to stop the ENORMOUS REDISTRIBUTION of wealth that has occurred over the last 30 years and in particular the last 12 from the lower, lower middle and middle classes, to the top 5% of wealthy Americans"
Trying to stop what has already happened? Are you joking with the "stop" argument? First you deny the Obama wants wealth redistribution and then you try and make us believe that is different that Obama trying to stop what has already occured. BTW when Eisenhower was president there were only a very few "wealthy people".
"Which is EXACTLY what he should be doing."
Well I glad you are breaking from the liberal mind set of the government being king and making sure the people aren't allowed to become too wealthy.
I think I would have spent my money first on Food, then Gas, then Gold, then Ammo. Anything Money left could be burned to keep me warm.
Eventually, you would run out of all of that, and still be in the same position as everyone else, just a little bit later, and ultimately join them in their fate. The scenario will probably resemble something similar to the movie The Road Warrior, only without the humanity and compassion.
I was thinking more of the scenario presented in the movie Red Dawn. Head for the hills with Food and Ammo.
Non perishable foods, water, a few guns with lots of ammo. Don't forget the the beer, chips with dog and cat food for Fido and kitty.
Since the focus/attention is on a meltdown, a meltdown shall come for you attract what you give your attention to. Law of Attraction in action. These laws must be understood in order for mankind to move forward and expand.
I wonder how many Greeks are pulling money out of the bank simply because they saw this "story" on the news. The press loves to throw around the "freedom of press" though deny responsibility for any of the consequence their "stories" might produce.
An excellent point and one I also thought of. There is no doubt the herd mentality can strike. Especially when the media fuels it and people are listening to that media. But respectfully and unfortunately, in today's world, it seems like the majority of people (at least in America and I assume elsewhere) use the media as their main source of research. Instead of digging below the fluff and finding the substance.
One would assume that the story was "aired" after the initial amount of money was withdrawn, so the speculation is probably right that AFTER people read the story, the real "run" could be fueled by the media.
Can you imagine the riots if this continues? People are going to try and withdrawal money and there won't be any left.
At least they still value the Euro before their banks are insolvent, it doesn't get any more real than money(?).
Good luck to all the people of Greece and all Americans living over there. Greece at the forefront of History, again, hopefully for the better.
This is what happens to a country that fails to realize it's debt problem, and fails to address ALL avenues for paying off said debt. The Greeks simply want to continue living their lifestyle without consequence...
.....sounds familiar
Greeks withdraw $894 million in a day: Is this beginning of a run on banks?By Alastair Jamieson, msnbc.com
Based on the title of the article, Jamieson is either incredibly naive or has a satirical sense of humor.
If almost $900 million was withdrawn in one day, I think it's safe to assume that this is indeed the beginning of a run on Greek banks.
I would hope it is the latter, but it could well be the former ;-)
The figure includes institutional transactions, so if you think about the scale of currency flows in a day, the figure isn't outrageously high. It is also far from clear whether similar amounts were withdrawn on Tuesday and there are no lines at ATMs today, hence the question rather than a definitive statement.
Do you not think that by putting a news story out titled "Is this beginning of a run on banks?" you could in fact start a run on the banks out of fear? You clearly don't believe a run was actually happening. Which brings the next question. If you didn't believe this was the start of a run why the title? The only reason I can think is simply to get folks to read the story which consequently results in ad revenue. You appear to be straddling a fine line without to much regard for the consequences.
Almost makes me want to withdraw my fiat money, stock up on basic essentials, guns, ammo and other goods that have useful trading value. Ooops, already did that, my bad. Just panicking a bit.
Thanks for the comments, and I take on board what you say.
We don't aim to predict the future of the Greek economy, merely to address the questions our readers are asking and try and provide evidence to help them form an answer. If I knew for sure whether there would be a bank run by the end of the day I would be out making my millions on the currency markets!
Very interesting to watch how they handle it over there. I'd bet the Greek people are going to go berserk when the faucet is finally shut off.
Better board up the store windows now!
I heard that the Greeks don't have to pay taxes, it is optional and know one comes after the rich who do not pay their share. (Is this true?)
I was also told that there are many very wealthy Greeks whom could financially solve there crisis, they have the solution within.
I am an American living in France so I am close to this problem. It is true that Greece had no business joining the Euro Zone, they lied about the conditions.
As for France, socialism, and the new President Hollande, he only won by about 2%
this country is very divided. I have a company here in France and I can tell you from experience Socialism Kills small business!!!!
What ever happens it will be painful if Greece stays our seperates from the Euro Zone.
On MSNBC's Morning Joe, Mort Zuckerman was asked what a person should do if they live in California. His answer was - "retire and move - NOW !" Things are already starting to collapse here in the U.S. in Liberal Socialisitic states like California. Liberal Socialist pigs just won't admit their system bankrupts states and even entire countries.
Things are falling apart in California because of legislature that refuses to pass laws that allow legislation to actually be passed. In particular, the super majority requirement has allowed this to occur.
California is falling apart because they are SPENDING too much not to mention being the largest welfare state in the union.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/31910310/The_Biggest_US_Welfare_States?slide=16
California needs to declare bankruptcy so they can renegotiate massively expensive union contacts - not just new ones, "untouchable" old ones too !! Unions need to go the way of the dodo bird. Scott Walker in Wisconsin, Christie in N.J. and other Governors know this.
Progressive,
Wrong again .I left Calif. 12 years ago because of the taxes. I had built a business up for 20 years in San Francisco, where not once did I take a vacation or pay myself as much as I paid my employees. When I sold it hopeing to start a new business, but my Capitol Gains taxes for Fed, state, county and city amounted to 68% . I worked like a slave for 20 years and gave 1/3 of my resultant profits to my employees, so I could come out with 21.3% of the value of what i worked my ass off for. There was no way in hell I was going to stay and let the deadbeats keep ripping me off tax wise . Now explain to me how Calif. was smart passing the type of legislation that drove me and 10's of thousands of entrepreneurs away form their shores? I'd say their greed for my earnings shot themselves in the foot . And if you look at where they are now compared to 1992, I'd say your progressive ways are a nonstarter and a sure fire way to destroy a great nation , let alone a great state.
@ Good Ol'
Funny how California is tanking after a Republican Govenor has left office, and now it's all the socialist liberals fault... sounds a lot like Bush left office - it's all Obama's fault...
Well Bobby, that is because the overwhelming Democrats here voted against everything he wanted. Now I am not standing up for Arnold, but I hate being unfair. Government Brown is doing things right now that is approved, the same things the democrats rejected. Now I am asking, do they have the best interest of the California people at heart, or just their party? And yes it is mostly Obama's fault, but Bush was also to blame.
Where the he!! is "jump street" ???
A place where it all begin or started. I suppose it could apply to where all the losers jump from windows too.
Manufacturers need to settle for a little less profit and more security and pull things back to the USA then this world crap woiuldn't affect our economy as much. Revamp our tax code and maybe this would begin to happen.
We on our way down and out to just be patient its coming...ask anyone thats out of work and cant find a job...Least the market is up must be good Greece is going down.. they been useing Greece as an excuese ever time the market goes down.
If things do not change for the US this will be us in 5 years..... sad to say.
I will continue to buy more ammo and firearms. Call me "crazy" but paper currency will sooner or later be totally useless. Maybe the anti-gun liberals can charm the intruders with there beautiful collection of beads. Carry on........
Here is the reality for INTELLIGENT liberals and conservatives on this forum. The United States is not Greece. Never has been, never will be. We have the largest economy in the world and even with the recession corporations have somehow managed to post record profits and accumulate record amounts of cash.
Nor are we in any way, shape, or form suddenly becoming a "socialist" nation. In fact not even close. The reality is the ONLY socialist argument that could be made about this administration is the passing of the Universal Health Care bill. And even that is HIGHLY questionable based on the bill itself and the fact it is Universal Health based on a market solution (which capitalists love) NOT on the government taking over health care.
America can recover if one thing and on thing only is accomplished. And that is the election of moderates on BOTH sides of the aisle who are willing to compromise and actually get something done that is best for AMERICA. And their votes are not actually votes for the donors/special interest/lobbyists who our current politicians are actually passing legislation for. Because at this moment, there is no doubt. We have the best government Wall Street/Corporations can buy.
Check some facts about "socialism" in the USA: More adults now pay no income tax than those who do pay it. In each state, the highest cost, biggest part of the budget is MEDICAID/free healthcare for ignorant losers who are just fine staying that way and don't want to progress, just have more spawn. Record amount, never seen before amount of "food stamps" (EBT cards) are being handed out. True unemployment is about 17%. Yes, the rich are getting richer but the middle class is shrinking fast into the poor and the rich control the govt so it's just fine with them.
What a crock. More adults now pay no income tax because of tax laws championed by conservatives. i.e. Give the wealthy massive tax cuts and the Middle Class small tax cuts which OVERWHELMINGLY favor the massive accumulation of weath, by the wealthy. While the Middle Class goes down the tubes.
Medicare, food stamps, etc are used by MILLIONS of Americans. The majority who are not "ignorant losers" but instead are hard working Americans who cannot find a job. Yes some do take advantage of the system. But NOT the MAJORITY.
And the reason the "the middle class is shrinking fast into the poor and the rich control the govt" is because CONSERVATIVES want it that way. You can see it from their so called jobs creation bills, to their policies on education, to their refusal to raise taxes for the wealthy, to the far right wing leaning Supreme Court, that has never met an individual American they like if that American is fighing a corporation. Conservatives starve the beast and allow capitalism to run wild mentality is why America is having the problems we have today. And that includes BOTH conservative Republicans and Democrats.
Progressive,
Wrong again . My business I sold was a health care providing set up where I supplied temp workers (professional level , nurses , therapists , etc.) to hospitals , nursing homes , etc. and your wrong about Obama care . First of it's destroying private health care insurance companies as it's an insurance reform bill not a health care providing bill. And it's causing chaos in the industry, and ripping off the elderly from what benefits they did have. Just look at who Brown said he was going to cut funds to,IE. Medicare/Medicaid called MediCal in California.
Oh!~ The people you mention paying no taxes, are by far the bottom 50% rather than the top. Your just spreading mis/disinformation when you allude to the rich not paying their fair share, they pay the vast bulk of all taxation in the nation not the middle class or the poor. the way you make it sound it's all on the backs of the poor , that couldn't be further from the truth and you know it.
and the reason the "the middle class is shrinking fast into the poor and the rich control the govt" is because CONSERVATIVES want it that way.
I believe there is a Democrat president, and the democrats are in the majority. You can't blame them.
That's what will happen here if the GOP controls congress!
THIS WILL BE LOOKED BACK ON AS THE BEGINNING OF THE GREAT CHAOS. GO RIGHT NOW AND BUY:
Water purifying tablets and crank/filters, ammo, guns, canned food, vegetable and fruit seeds/seedlings, tents, fertilizer, gets some good dogs if you don't have any, best alarms in the world.
If you can outlast the first wave of starvation, thirst, streetfighting there will be a lot less people after that and you'll have a much better chance.
Chris - I am also a prepper and have most of the stuff you listed plus other things. There is a website course called "Survive-in-Place" - stay and survive right in your own home. Stock enough ammo now - there will be a run on that too ! - and make sure everyone in the household already knows how to properly and safely use the guns you have. If I am killed, my wife and kids need to be able to be able to protect themselves. Firearms training is a good idea for all of your family. I have machetes, mace/pepper sprays and hunting knives too !
I am not suggesting this is the only reasons for Greece's problems, but in Greece the national pastime is tax evasion. In fact, tax reduction is a common thread among those countries facing huge deficits and debt. The U.S. being a shining example. Insisting on tax cuts while funding two wars is plain nuts. And now you are seeing the results. Prior to the tax cuts and wars, the U.S. was running a budget surplus. TAX CUTS DO NOT CREATE JOBS! TAX CUTS WITHOUT ADDITIONAL DOMESTIC SPENDING DOES NOT INCREASE REVENUE! QUIT TRYING TO PEDDLE THAT CRAP! Witness the lowest tax rate in years and the highest unemployment numbers for the longest stretch in memory.
Greece's issue is not TAX evasion; its WORK evasion. You sound like one of those leftists who believe governments are the source of wealth. What does Greece need all those taxes for? Their Navy? Their Army?
Hardly. They need the taxes to pay the salaries and benefits for the non-productive sector; ie people who do nothing - the useless government bureaucrats who have decided its their "right" to retire from their 25 years of government paid vacation at full salary.
Lets try your theory out:
Texas and Florida: No income taxes
California and Illinois: Highest tax rates in the nation.
Which states are on the rocks?
Anyone find it humerous they withdrew EURO's, you know, the currency they have debased with their reckless spending and refusal to pay debts?
If I were them, I wouldn't deposit it in German banks, cause the Germans have more risk than the greeks do...
And soon... coming to your bank near you...
Go on take the money and run, wooh wooh wooh
This can only accelerate. The Greeks decided they could vote for 2+2=5; the last act of delusion and the inevitable course of all unfettered democracies where people decide they can all vote for the property of others - it all ends this way.
The USA will be following Greece into oblivion for the same reason: Generations of children indoctrinated into believing that democracies can actually work by those who are engaged fully in this kind of theft; government employee unions.
lets use our heads peeps
if money fails
taking it out of the bank makes no difference
though taking the money from the rich bank screws
will give them a taste of the poor life i think
considering no bank no job
booom baby