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Wilderness Comittee
Torrance Coste, an activist with the Wilderness Committee on Canada's Vancouver Island, surveys the stump of an 800-year-old red cedar that poachers cut up and hauled out of Carmanah Walbran Provincial Park.
The death of an ancient cedar tree inside a remote park on Canada's Vancouver Island is being showcased by an environmental group seeking more protection against illegal loggers.
The 800-year-old tree was attacked by poachers with power saws over time at Carmanah Walbran Provincial Park, the Wilderness Committee reported Thursday. Cedar is valuable as material for roofing shingles.
The poachers, still at large, were able to cut through 80 percent of the base of the tree -- which had a diameter of nine feet -- before park staff finally noticed what was going on, Wilderness Committee campaigner Torrance Coste told msnbc.com. The damage was so severe that park staff had to fell the entire tree for safety reasons.
The park left the fallen tree at the site so that it could decompose, returning nutrients to the soil, Coste said, but since then poachers "have returned at their leisure without fear of consequence and cut up, hauled out, and taken away the tree in sections.
"This has required seriously heavy equipment," he added. "The area has been trashed, and there are huge steel cables lying around all over the place ... sections of the trunk have been removed up until as recently as two weeks ago."
The Wilderness Committee urged British Columbia, which incorporates Vancouver Island, to beef up funding for park rangers.
Wilderness Committee
The cedar was left by park staff to decompose at the site, but only this section and a few pieces are still there after poachers got to the tree.
"While the poachers themselves have obviously committed a terrible crime, fault for this incident should also lay with the Ministry of Environment and their long-time negligence of our parks," Coste said.
The controversy has reached British Columbia's government, with the opposition New Democrat Party criticizing the Liberal Party government, The Canadian Press reported.
"To suggest that anyone is able to protect all of those areas to the level that the member suggests is fiscally irresponsible," responded Environment Minister Terry Lake.
"I'll tell you what irresponsible is," countered New Democrat Scott Fraser, "10 years ago there were 194 park rangers in British Columbia, there's under 100 now."
The Wilderness Committee, for its part, also fears illegal logging of cedar might be happening elsewhere on Vancouver Island.
“What we need to know" from the environment ministry "is if cedar poaching is happening anywhere else," Coste said.
A parks official said investigators have little information to work with.
"We have no eyewitnesses or license plates," Don Closson told the Canadian Press.
A police officer echoed the lack of evidence, adding that the poachers were likely after the cedar for roofing shingles.
"It's obviously much more gain than going out and taking a whole pile of firewood," Sgt. Dave Voller told the Canadian Press. "A logging truck loaded with cedar would be worth thousands and thousands of dollars."
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Leave a Comment:
msn bounced me to this article that I haven't even read. Please ignore.
I will be happy to ignore you
Too late.
I read it and it really sucks... not like you can just go out to Home Depot and get another.
They should have known the poachers would come back. Just put one of those outdoor cameras out of sight to snap pictures of who comes back. So simple.
Have Canadians ever heard of game cameras? Camouflaged cameras you set up that use motion detectors to take pictures? The way I see it, catching these guys who were making multiple return trips to the crime scene should have been as easy as a walk in the park.
This old tree trunk can be found atop Mitt Romney's car and in his car elevator in California. This is so Mitt!
Instead of letting it decompose the park officials should have legally sold the tree and used the proceeds to beef up their patrol budget. Oh wells.
Thank you thatguydownsouth. They should have known that the poachers would return.
"before park staff finally noticed what was going on, Wilderness Committee campaigner Torrance Coste told msnbc.com. The damage was so severe that park staff had to fell the entire tree for safety reasons."
So did the park staff think that by finishing their job of cutting the tree down the poachers would not return? Did they think the poachers goal was simply to watch the tree fall?
This is like police chasing a burglar from a home only to finish gathering up all the valuable belongings, sit them on the front lawn and then leave.
The should have set up surveilence of the area after they discovered the crime, heck even a few hidden game-trail cameras that detect movement and snap pictures probably would have lead to an arrest.
Increase fines and use money from fines to pay for the rangers.
Also, create a financial incentive for normal people to report these crimes when they occur.
I agree with the others, why not setup some game cameras? Not rocket science. I also agree they could've legally sold the tree and used the money to help fight this more. Actually could have done both. Leaving some of the tree as bait. I don't know aboot you but this seems to be common sense, yeah?? Maybe these rangers will wise up now. As for the poachers if they find them I hope the take a chunk of cedar from this tree and shove it up their you know whats. There was another article just talking about a UFO that was likely a drone. Here is a case where using drones with night vision cameras would be perfect, ya know instead of spying on everyday people for no reason? But I know that is no fun.
It is time
People, these are Canadians we're talking about here. What might seem like simple solutions to you and me might be some pretty deep consideration for the maple leaves, yeah doncha know.
Eh!
Cameras? Which trees should be watched - of the tens of thousands?
Anyway - this is just business practices their age old tradition of screwing over everyone else to get what they need at the best price. And 'free' is the best price. If you don't like it - either shut down the businesses or sell them the timber rights. Expecting them to be honest is too high an expectation.
Obviously, this one, that the poachers had had their saws on previously.
The one that was cut down already, for starters. How about any park access roads, while we're at it?
lmfao...
as always people deleting history with a profit
The police did nothing because they already know who they are. Lets remember this is an island with limited places that could accept a tree that large. They won't go after the perps because it would be more a political headache than a legal problem, here is a hint... the local natives own the sawmills, the same natives have been claiming they own the whole island including the city of Victory the last 40 years...
Reactive instead of proactive. Eight-hundred years of history wiped out over greed.
Obviously republicans infest certain areas of Canada.Their sickness of greed is their curse and will be their downfall.
You'd think this would not be a big deal. There are tons of trees in Canada, if this helped roof some homes, then more power too them.
Must of been on Dudly Dorights beat.
Got Wood?
800 years old? I have a Cedar in my back yard that has a circumference of 16.1 feet (5.1' diameter - measured 3 feet above ground because of an irregular base). I wonder how old it is? I wouldn't dream of cutting it down - much too majestic. It's next to a stream bed that has water running about 9 months of the year, which probably explains why it has withstood many droughts.
I hope they catch the greedy jerks that destroyed it.
O cedar makes your life easier...
In all truth, I'd be suprised if some rangers were NOT getting a cut of the proceeds. Just to lame that the tree was removed, repeatedly, over multiple trips with no camera's in place.
That's Canadians for you, I ran in Canada at one time in an 18 wheeler grossing 79,950 lbs. and was going up there interstate rt 3. I was warned by the border people that there were a lot of accidents on that road lately and be cautious as they weren't sure why it was happening. Rt3 is 100kph which is 62mph. There wasn't anybody going less than 100 or so it seamed. I got my butt run over. All they had to do was send an officer in an unmarked car up that road 1 trip and tell him to stop no one and report back here. their question would have been answered. Canadians don't seam to have an inquisitive mind. If that was going on here there would be a patrol car every quarter mile.
Shoot all poachers dead! Whether they are poaching elephants or cedar trees, these human parasites need to be exterminated.
yeah but a slice of that tree would make a beautiful table for my dining room
"Yeah, but" nothing. It's an 800 year old tree. Show some respect. Your dining room table matters how much compared to a tree that started growing around the same time that Joan of Arc was born!
Your dining room table is meaningless.
Yeah, Steve. We should destroy an 800 year old tree to decorate your pitiful life. After all, your lifespan will be almost 80 years, right? I mean, the 20-30 years that you would use this item is all that matters, right? Your hide would look good in my man cave... but I'd only keep it there for about a month...
What bothers me about this, is that there are plenty of places to legally log out trees. Why go to the one protected park? Meaningless.
Are they sure it wasn't George W Bush - remember when he did this to the ancient tree in front of the White House! Didn't even have the foresight to auction off bits for posterity - just cut it and removed it.
Really? That's the proper response for poachers? You want to put them in the same category as murders, rapists, child molesters, and the like?
I don't even know if I'd label this as a 'terrible crime' like the article has.
Get 'em for breaking the law, but it's not really something to kill people over. It's just a tree, even if it's ancient. Hit 'em with some fines and some jail time, but killing them is unreasonable.
Well, someguy, every now and then insane policies like China's do seem reasonable. Shooting these POSs would have an excellent, uplifting, ennobling effect on civilization, as would shooting a few wall street frauds and people who make dining room tables out of looted national treasures.
Steel spikes might be used on some valuable trees to protect them from thieves.
Some Guy, I absolutely agree that killing those responsible for this is/would be going WAY too far.
But, it's not just a tree. It's the mentality of the people that would do this kind of thing. There are plenty of places to log legally and get cedar. But the type of person who would specifically seek out old growth trees like this one, that is what is wrong here. It's an ancient tree and it should be revered and respected. The tree has probably lasted through fires and blights and stood the test of time. And to have it cut down and sold off, probably to end up as some idiots dining room table is a real tragedy. You can make that same stuff out of younger trees. There are entire forests that are planted by the timber industry specifically to be cut down. I'm no tree hugger and I support the loggin industry, but there needs to be a healthy respect for the resources we are utilizing. And part of that respect means leaving old growth forest alone.
Steve, your worthless, selfish, and self-serving comments are posted on a lot of sites.
You must really live a very pitiful life. Poachers who would destroy this treasure of a
beautiful old 800 yr old tree should be actively pursued and prosecuted to the fullest.
We have a gorgeous earth and people that do something like this and also beautiful
animals don't deserve to live on God's creation.
Shoot them??
Okay, but then where does it stop Herr Gaithersburger?
Shall we then shoot all fat people, blind people, people with glasses, people who are annoying or smell too bad???
Please, it is sad for this 800 year old tree and the poachers deserve Jail but if you lower people below Animals and Trees - Like the Third Reich did, it makes us no better that that Nazi Scum..... and those people will destroy the environment to spite people like you.
There is a better way.....
No Respect for anything anymore; with all the evidence it seems that with some good police work it would not be that hard to solve, there cannot be that many people with the equipment that can cut down a 9' dia. tree, then haul it out. Then they have to get it to a mill. There are a bunch involved here for sure and maybe someone got paid to look the other way. To large a job for someone not to have heard or seen something somewhere. Imagine the truck that was required just to remove the pieces. For some reason this article made this yank very sad. It not that its just a tree, its speaks of much deeper things! WTF is with society!
Cedar doesn't exactly lend itself to rotting let alone rotting very quickly. There's no reason for the park to let a fallen tree (by poachers, wind or whatever) rot and decay when the park itself could have sold the tree and used the money for a good cause.
The claim of this being a 9ft. dia. tree are BS, that is no 9ft. dia. tree, not unless the individual standing on it in the photo is over 8ft tall. The the cleverly written story and words chosen, i.e. "They attacked the tree", as opposed to they sawed it down. Who in the hell attacks a tree, shrub, etc..... that's just too much BS. So I'm inclined to believe that someone is over doing it on their elaboration of the issue as an attempt to build-up or create some hype over the issue. Not a surprising scenario considering it's a liberal wacko group trying to pressure their point and call attention to themselves.
And as much as I can appreciate an 800 yr. old tree, I do believe that people should come first. No, liberals, I do not condone someone sneaking in and cutting it down, especially on a public park. But people should come first, and this is not a big NEWS topic considering everything else in the world that is going on.
As a usually well-gounded individual who values common sense and who does not get into the pop-metaphysical scene, I felt an empty, dark pit in my stomach and a tear in the fabric of our world's collective soul upon reading these headlines. The human race is regressing at an increased speed.
POACHING TREES? Whether the forests of Brazil or a protected specimen! What's next?
Poaching WATER? (Soon to a neighborhood near you!)
At what point will we wake up and respect our environment? Is our attitude really to not feel any responsibility toward future generations and be content to watch ourselves commit slow suicide? Content to not try to turn it around, but just let the human race become extinct with/like all the other life forms we are killing?
Immediate gratification ranked over the health of our environment will kill the human race on Earth!
The shooting of poachers is common on many African National Parks by Park Rangers. Poachers tend to be armed and dangerous people who will stop at nothing to kill innocent life (animal, tree or the like) for their own murderous greed. They have no respect for life and as such, so we should have little respect for theirs.
"Shoot all poachers dead"
I like the idea personally. I wish I could make a living at it. I would be happy to shoot poachers.
Ignore trolls like steve. He is either a troll in the blogosphere who says inflammatory crap for attention or he has some psychological problems and probably needs his diaper changed and another round of electroshock.
The really sad part is the park cops were not smart enough to put some kind of surveillance around the tree to catch the poachers. Common sense would dictate that they would come back. Especially since the park service was nice enough to finish cutting it down for them.
If you want to shoot all poachers and there is no season for them, doesn't that make you a poacher too? Perpetuates the cycle. But I'll give you a 5 second head start. one thousand one, one thousand two.......
Sure it is. Poachers will happily take the risk of jail time for the rewards that poaching can bring. The problem with a fine and jail time is twofold:
1. They get out and go do it again.
2. After the crime, rehabilitated or not, law abiding society's world is already lessened by the loss of yet another endangered animal or plant and when the species is gone, it's gone! Meanwhile, I'm still left with plenty of low life idiots who are now moving on to the next endangered species.
Shoot poachers and leave their bodies where they fall for Nature to take unless friends or relatives get their first. Poachers have no conscience for endangered creatures, the interconnected function of ecosystems, nor the laws our elected officials put in place to protect them. We should have no conscience in killing them right there in the field or on a salesroom floor. F' em.
While I don't condone what happened, it isn't the end of the world either. How many people could even appreciate an 800 year old tree, especially one this far off the beaten path. Once the damage was done, it should be used, it would have been stupid to let it rot.
Funny.
My initial response, which I intended to write on this thread, was 'shoot all poachers on sight'.
Good job, Gaithersburg in getting right to the solution.
That's just what I keep saying about rhinoceros horns! I never see rhinoceroses so why do I care if people kill them, hack off their horns and leave the carcass to rot until there aren't anymore. There could be a stip mine in the middle of our most beloved state parks just so long as a hedge of beautiful trees blocks my view of it...Right?
Not...
Come on...Really?
@Dogma Bites
And when the friggin moronic eco-freaks mistakenly shoot someone who isn't poaching? Then what? No way in hell I'd trust the judgement of someone who is willing to kill a human being because they're "poaching" a fcking tree. Nut cases should NOT be allowed to carry firearms!
I can't help but laugh whenever someone offers advice in a post that even they themselves aren't willing to follow. lol
Backcountry - yup, says it all...enjoy your cousin f'ing.
Skeptical, yep says it all. Make sure your tinfoil hat is good and tight.
Don't worry Backc... Dogma and his/her kind don't really have it in them... to much work getting off the couch... much more easy to just keep running mouth.
Very apropos name for yourself considering your response...
Yea...Lets create an avenue of corruption for park officials who may want to make a little cash on the side on the black market. I would rather the remains to be destroyed than ANY person getting a new dining room table, roof shingles, etc. There should be absolutely nothing to gain from breaking the law.
First off, the tree is not round. If the guy standing on the stump laid down along the direction he is facing he would be about equal to that axis. If he laid the other way he would be shorter than that axis. The article says the park claims the tree is 800 years old. If you would like to make up your own article then go ahead.
I don't think the world "attacked" is so extreme when used to describe the malicious destruction of a legally protected animal or plant. I think the BS may be in your obviously right wing, extremist viewpoint.
You can believe whatever you choose to believe to support your weak arguments.
That much is obvious. Let me know how you feel about illegal aliens using the services of US healthcare. I bet you have a problem with that. It's stealing from the American people, right? So is poaching anything.
Good to hear, right winger. I don't call you a "conservative" because GOP type "conservatives" are anything BUT conservative. Unfortunately, conserning this being newsworthy, it is just another example of people destroying nature solely to make a buck and that is certainly one of the major problems in the world today. My recommendation is for you to start your own news service. Then, again, you already have the "conservative" fox news.
Those poachers would go great with some fava beans and a nice chilled chianti.
An 800 year old tree. Hm, what's your point? Don't you think we have other more pressing problems than a tree?
This is not news at all.
If someone is on public land with a giant mf'ing saw and is cutting on a 9' diameter tree, I don't think there would be a mistake. If someone is sawing off the horn of a rhino, I dont think there would be a mistake. Life's a b1tch, bc. Just ask the 800 year old tree. Kill the gd poachers and that is my opinion.
If that makes me crazy to you then, should hit teams vs poachers be legalized here in the US as they have in parts of Africa, I recommend you not carry giant saws and heavy equipment into protected areas like parks or you might get capped.
BTW, nutcases can buy guns very very easily in this country probably thanks to geniuses like yourself who are brainwashed by NRA nutcases screamingt the sky is falling because a dem potus was elected into office...even though guns and ammo are easier to get now than ever.
Could just as easily be said about you and BC. You guys have some brilliant arguments here...
Okay. Not really.
@Dogma Bites
Translation- I'd rather see several other trees get cut down to provide the products this destroyed one would have because I don't trust the people I want to run every aspect of my life.
Yeah right, some of these fruits believe legal logging is just as bad or even worse than "poaching". Like they'd wait until the saw was in the tree or the rhino was down. The story clearly said the parks department finished cutting it down because it was a safety hazard; sure wouldn't want to be tasked with that job knowing there are eco-nuts with guns who could legally shoot me if they thought I was a "poacher".
Anytime someone has to resort to assumptions they've pulled right out of their ass in order to make their point, it's a pretty clear sign they never had a valid point to begin with.
I'd bet a months wages I spend more time in, and have more appreciation for, the woods than you or even the majority of the clueless eco-nuts out there. My screen name wasn't chosen randomly.
Thank you for this, backcountry, and I quote:
The above comment in reference to these that are in the same response:
Gee...lol...Where to begin with your hypocrisy?? Actually, in the cases quoted above you are likely correct.
Have a nice day, BC.
Gaithersburger, is that a description of your brain? Frankly I think that all folks who post carp like yours should be exterminated.
Dogma Bites - I wish you didn't have to drag politics into this. I'm as conservative as the day is long and I love these big old trees. A hundred years ago we had thousands of cedars as big as, and bigger than, this one growing from Oregon to Alaska. I go hiking in the hills here in NW Washington and still find the remains of huge stumps, 10-12 feet in diameter. I consider myself a conservationist. These legacy trees really ought to be preserved as much as possible.
Humans are not fit for this world. I guess the biggest enemy of life is intelligence.
Not getting tied up in the tit for tat above, I do want to lend credence to the original posters comments.
While some people think it extreme, death has historically always been the penalty for poaching. It's also the only way you will ever solve these types of issues with the financial gains involved. Death in short order is a BIG detractor. It's hard to find workmen to help you illegally saw down a massive 800 year old tree when they know if caught over pilfering 'wood' they get killed. You can shingle your house with tar shingles instead of cedar.
My issue is they haven't caught the guy. When they found out that the tree was being sawed on and they felled it they should have monitored the corpse to catch the people who did it. This should have been done every single day until the guy got caught. The fact that after noticing the problem they then just addressed the safety issue and ignored the rest goes to classic government incompetence.
And before someone says that's a 'waste' of a park Ranger, this thief was determined. He would have come back and likely would not have used a spotter. It's also hard to bring in a huge truck and trailer to haul the thing off without drawing attention, as long as someone is even remotely watching.
Pugface, just for clarity, the 10 to 12 foot stumps you've seen were giant sequoias, another beautiful and spectacular, sometimes up to 2,000 year old forest denizen which has too too often been blithly destroyed for wanton profit, but a slightly different variety from this fallen cedar.
DogmaBites: Maybe they should have shot the poachers and left THEIR bodies to rot and feed the surrounding ground in lieu of leaving the felled tree......works for me! This is just another sad situation that shows what our civilization is coming to. There is a total lack of respect, responsibility, conscience, etc. when it comes to things like this. We're getting to be more and more like the Roman Empire.....and we all know what happened to them!!
It always amazes me how many people seem to condone the killing of other human beings, and in the same paragraph, blame others for how screwed up civilization is.
@Dogma Bites
Making assumptions based on what someone has said isn't quite the same thing as just pulling stuff right out of thin air. You have a nice day too.
Anything for a few bucks. no respect no cares, just money money money.
The down fall of humanity has always been and always will be greed
lack of information or ignorance is at the base that is why information is light and lack of information is darkness.
This is so incredibly sad!
I agree that they should be arrested and their identities posted for all the world to see! And yes, greed, will be the downfall of us all.
Dining room tables are also part of the problem, apparently. The tremendous lack of respect for nature is astounding to me.
The fact that someone can go, unnoticed, into these forests with large equipment and come out with large chunks of these trees is also astounding.
@JW-2644726
There needs to be stiff fines and even jail time but I doubt these sorts of people would care much if their identities were posted.
What bothers me about this story is the eco-group who is doing the complaining. Obviously they were aware of what was going on and actually cared so why didn't they take matters into their own hands? Why weren't they out there guarding this tree? It's always blame the government for not doing enough. Even a simpleton can see that government can only do so much and there aren't nearly enough resources to go around. Not to mention the utter incompetency in most government agencies and even corruption in some. If something is important to you then you should do something about it instead of whining and crying because someone else didn't do it for you.
Are cedar trees endangered?
Actually have some good questions here. Since we haven't made open season on poachers, I would imagine confronting possibly armed criminals could make one extinct. However, why didn't they use some electronic surveillance or something? Camp out a couple hundred yards away and wait for the sounds of sawing to make a phone call or radio for help? Film the poachers? Something...?
I would offer up that, since this is gov't land, they would be the ones to complain to and about. Perhaps the gov't and the eco group could work together.
@Dogma Bites
Hey there's something we can agree on. If you want something done right do it yourself. Especially when the alternative may be some schmoe just waiting for a paycheck who may not even give a rats ass about this tree or even, as you've suggested, may have made a few bucks on the side to look the other way.
I worked as a logger for a couple of years while going to school. I'm neither a granola nor a tree-hugger, but this really pisses me off. Something that has weathered 800 winters, countless forest fires, insect infestations, et al, is dead at the hands of some @!$%# heads trying to make a few bucks off of cedar shakes. Hope they catch the bastards and lay into them with an ax.
How terrible. You're right. Anything for money. People don't care who or what they hurt so long as it fills their wallets and that's sickening. This tree had been around for 800 years, there are houses that are on the Historic registry that haven't been around that long. This tree survived so much only to be felled by complete morons who wanted a quick buck....it's just terrible. I hope they catch the people that did this and make them pay, I would recommend a large monetary payment ( more then what they would have gotten for the cedar) and a forced community service to plant multiple trees....after that a couple kicks in the butt.
800 year old ones are....
Bobbyjones,
800 year old cedar trees are not common, though.
These jackass's need to be caught and have there little REDWOODS removed with a chainsaw.There is no earthly reason that this 800 year old majestic tree had to die.
I am deeply sadden to hear that the 800 yr old tree was murdered!
In My opinion, no Law supersedes protecting the Natural World, because simply put: The NATURAL WORLD is what sustain us all.
...All-That-Is... YOUR STILL IN THE DARK... This was not a 1 man small truck job.. Make a "REWARD" big enough and you'll find the gang, who should get 8 to 10 years.. which might slow them down abit...
God Bless America ... AGAIN...
Backcountry 164, you do realize that most environmentalists don't get paid for their actions. What do you suggest? They take shifts guarding every tree, for free? Instead of sleeping, going to their jobs, what? The reason more rangers are needed is that it should be someone's JOB to guard national resources that belong to everyone. It can't be left up to whoever has some time to spare. The perpetrators who cut the tree made big bucks (or loonies) for their activities. I hope they choke on it.
As much as I was inclined to say it was just a tree, this actually really upsets me.
Cry me a river so I can piss in it. I can't wait till we take over Canada too.
We are about to extinct half the animal species on earth and we lament the cutting down of one tree? Trees grow back. Rhino's and Hippos don't. Get over it.
@JayEll-1204918
Yes I do realize that. In fact I've seen a show called Whale Wars where a bunch of people make extreme personal sacrifice, without pay, to do something that is important to them. Do you not understand how much it would cost to pay someone to watch over "every tree". Simply not possible. If you care so much about something do what you can with the time you can spare.
tstucker: has it ever occurred to you that "the cutting down of one tree" lead to cutting down millions of trees over time and that is one of the causes of animal extinction on our planet? Try to think in the bigger picture - the world is an eco-system that either lives together or falls together. You imply that a tree, 800 years old, is just any other ol' tree. Conservation is critical because attitudes like yours are are never in short supply - just like trees, right?
Pedro: you're just a waste of skin. Go trolling somewhere else.
It would be appropriate for all involved to have their property, bank account and all assets seized. They should face years of Court Ordered labor in the Forrest and plant thousands upon thousands of trees during this time frame. Also, their pictures and story should be posted on-line and at the major entrances to the Forrest.
Wanna bet that it's some First Nations group that are responsible, and even if they are caught they'll get off with barely a slap on the wrist. They'll poach bald eagles to sell the talons and feathers, so you can be sure the these F.N. "environmentalists" will not give a marmot's fart about an 800 year old cedar tree.
It is utterly unacceptable the crimes mankind has bestowed upon our home planet. Earth is a living breathing organism and has all the power, humans do not. You will feel her adjust herself and purge herself of all the poisons soon enough. New Orleans. Japan are just small samples. Brace yourselves humans.
The earth has been trying to kill us off ever since our ancient ancestors decided to walk on two legs.
We've survived and grown smarter and stronger for it. The planet will not kill us off, it has not been able to yet.
What may kill us off will be either ourselves, or a cosmic event such as a gamma ray burst.
The planet may have "tried to kill us off" only if it was humanlike like some scary person against us. I
If we do not RESPECT Planet Earth, your little coins will mean absolutely nothing.
Nature will react to what people have done to the environment. The result will be an environment that is very difficult for the current biota across the globe to live in. The changes are coming too fast for evolution to take the slack of. Humans and other life will likely survive but it won't be much fun at all for the survivors.
no matter how much we try to help earth, it simply does not care-on the same day our school had paperless day to save trees--i think we saved about 1/50th of a tree---the japanese earthquake and tsunami destroyed millions of trees (and some people died too but they are not that important after all what school in its right mind would have a "treat others good" or "anti bully" day!) how rude of earth to do that as we try to save it...then there are hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, etc all trying to undo the good we do to help earth---kinda like trying to help a drug addict!!!
Why don't you save 'Mother Earth' the trouble, All That Is, know what I mean...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElJFYwRtrH4 This is a youtube video of tree huggers crying in the forest after one of their "babies" is murdered.......hilarious.
Seven, I can see your point for a young tree but chopping down an 800 yr old tree is just plain wrong, whether you are a "tree hugger" or not.
Seven, these poachers are sick people and so are you.
What is so funny? You mean, its hilarious to let people destroy something it has taken nature 800 years to create? This was a protected forest...
Seven - I somewhat agree with where you are coming from. I cut trees down every winter and burn them in my home to keep my family alive. I also plant things in my garden and intentionally kill them for us to eat... Resources are here for us to use.
That being said, I was very troubled by cutting down the 'old man' in the woods. There are many, many other options... Why this this one "exceptional" example have to be taken? Money, not survival...
I bet you hate children. Can't love your kids and laugh at the destruction of the environment.
all right the people in your video link are completely out of it, but money/greed caused the loss of something majestic and beautiful. It a moral crime against all of us because it was on protected land. 800 years!! My God that was an impressive age.
Thanks for the video Seven! It made me LOL.
That was the funniest video I have seen in a long time. Imagine if they put that much effort into helping starving children or inner city children.
Yet the dumb asses on this site will collapse your comment because they are afraid of the world seeing how stupid they look.
I wish I could piss in the river they are crying
Children will starve if you destroy the planet, as well. But, of course, you wouldn't care, because when THAT happens, you'll be long dead, and you will not have to suffer, or watch the real suffering that will happen.
And Sanchez, if you were such an advocate for starving children, you would be speaking out against the amount of food waste we have in this country, when 1 in 6 people, mostly children, go hungry. You know how much food we waste? 40%. 40 frickin' percent!!! So get off your high horse, and do something about that, and leave others who fight for other moral causes, like this one, alone. Oh, and yes, I do something about the hungry. I don't waste my food, I take my leftovers to the park, and feed people, I spend at least $10 every time I go grocery shopping, to give to food banks. Just because I love the environment, and speak out about atrocities like this, and weep for what the future holds for generations to come, doesn't mean I don't care about what happens to children, you ignorant POS.
It breaks my heart to read about this.
This is so sad! It could be said it was a living being that did not need to be killed.
What kind of person kills something that is 800 years old? Very sad day for the humanity of man.
Greedy bastards who would sacrifice anything for a fast buck.
Like the people who stole our land. Might want to look in a mirror and then think about your forefathers.
My fore-fathers on my dad's side came too late to see the Native American genocide. And my fore-fathers on my mother's side married them. So, hush up. All groups of people sometimes do stupid and cruel things.
Old growth forest (really old trees) are important habitat for many wild animals and are quickly disappearing. It is not just one tree that was killed, a home was destroyed
Okay, so we've got satellites that can view a license plate from space, and every friggin' cellphone has a camera... but for some reason they can't invision installing closed circuit cameras in prime poaching locations?? Like, the bay or whatever beach/dock that is being used to load the timber? Fail.
How many 800 yr-old trees on sanctioned, protected land have been cut down before this one that you know about?
This my be their FFClue!
Shoot poachers on site and let the wildlife eat them, f'ing scumbags.
I second that!
Probably only two or three companies in the area that have the equipment but they are all related to public officials. Invisible.
You get a cigar; or a joint if you north of the border, but I'd bet you hit it on the head.
What kind of idiots do they have in BC's Environment Ministry? A couple remote hunting cameras and they could have had PICTURES of the a**holes!
Kinda makes me wonder if the rangers were paid to look the other way.
Birdpilot - your anger is misplaced. The Ministry of Environment is woefully understaffed - they can't be everywhere all the time. They have had huge cuts in staff over the last 10 years or so. BC is a huge province (I think bigger than Texas) with huge tracks of forest with many trees hundreds of years old, all not in one area that is easily accessible. Instead, the penalties should be severe enough to make sure that it doesn't happen. Look at penalties for shooting endangered species in Africa - there's probably some good examples there that we could have here..
It costs money to buy, install, and to upkeep. And since people are more interested in paying $200 for something they saw on the Kardashians, then to donate $10 for such equipment, it's not going to happen.
jerryb, I'm kind of wondering the same thing. The "authorities" managed to find this tree and cut it down for safety reasons. Then they leave it there and complain when someone comes in and takes it away. How could they miss the heavy equipment and the noise it created? They should have had someone policing that area if they didn't want the poachers to return.
They should have had someone policing that area if they didn't want the poachers to return.
It wouldn't really be practical if BC has less than 100 park rangers.
I want to know why they left it there. What you didn't think they would come back? You finish the hardest part of the job for them, leave the tree there and then scratch your head when they come back and take the log? Why did they leave it there? To be politically correct? They could have very easily got a company to come in and remove the log(s). Then they could have done a thousand things with it - put it on display, make something/anything that could be used by the public. No, it was lost so no one should benefit from it except the illegal loggers. Unbelievably stupid! Any talk of a reward? Nah, they'll just stand around scratching their heads and wonder what to do next.
They do not need pictures to know who did this!
It is a small island and there can not be that many forestry crews around... validate where the legit crews were working during this time period and it should be obvious who had a timber crew, trucks, knew the area and was not otherwise employed on those days.
Does this really need Sherlock Holmes to figure this out? Somebody is selling cedar shakes... try the local newspapers and look for the ad "cheap cedar shake shingles".
If local officials can not solve this, they are probably complicit in some way.
How many trees can be cut down before the oxygen goes away? When the oxygen goes away, who will have money for air tanks? Every time we destroy another acre we are condemning future generations to life in a hot, dirty world with little breathable air.
When going after those bastards, use the chain saws on them poachers
Why hasn't this guy just camped out near there? He would at least have a license plate number by now..
Shoot Them the GARBAGE! ASS HOLES all of THEM!
Yes, because a tree is so much more important than a human being (sarcasm). You have too much hate in you.
@Random
Last I checked, the average amount for a human life is around 10 bucks, this tree however is 800 years old and worth several thousands times more than a human's life.
So yes, this tree is more valuable than a couple human's lives. Isn't that GOP logic?
"Last I checked, the average amount for a human life is around 10 bucks"
You can't place a price on human life. Also, how is it the GOP's logic to place a price on a human?
trees are plants, plants make oxygen, humans breathe oxygen...so yes a tree can be more important than a human being!
@Random
You guess you missed all the news throughout the world. In China, a human's life is worth much less than 10 USD.
However, in US, we have people who want war to make money for the rich and people who cry out about helping the poor. So yes, according to GOP, you can put money on a person's life and it worth much less than what this tree actually worth.
Too many people on earth, not enoughtrees tomake oxygen to keep all of us @!$%#heads breathing. Good riddance to many greedheads like these loggers who donothing but ruin what's been there for the rest of us. Posting a reward would be a good step in trying to get someone to inform on these creeps.....someone who works with a builder who purchased the cedar, soomewhere along the line an employee knows soomethiing.
Punishment of the "human" culprits is all we can do now, if we every catch them.
Cuong -
I was going to write up a long rebuttal to your post but decided it would be a waste of space and my time obviously someone like you (who can turn a story about tree poaching into a slam on the GOP) it would bounce right off your head.
@Atom
Ahh yes, this argument. When the law is on your side, use the law, when reason is on your side, argue with reason, however when neither the law or reason is on your side, attack the person directly. Nice of you to show me.
It is true if you calculate the amount of money we spent in wars and the amount of money GOP refuse to help the poor, it will average around that low amount. So technically, you guys put a price on a human's life just as China did with their policy and almost no regulation for corporation concerning the poor.
Nice attempt to dodge it all by attacking me.
It's too bad that they dont get Butterfly(the lady that sat in the redwood tree in Humboldt County) to guard the forest for them, I'm sure she wouldnt have minded, she sure didnt mind trespassing on private land to sit in a tree for over a year. Shows how much humans are valued.
Despicable!!
Every mill within 100 miles should be questioned diligently.
An actual useful comment especially since on Vancouver island. you know the logging truck with uncut logs didn't just hop a ferry to the mainland.
How hard would it be to contact the business that may be approached for purchasing?
There can't be that many mills that would/could process a tree with this huge circumference...
it might be just the opposite. As old growth timber became scarcer mills had to get new equipment to deal with smaller logs
The greed of some people is disgusting. For a tree to have survived 800 years and destroyed in a day repulses me to no end. I hope whoever was responsible for this gets caught and punished accordingly, but I'm not holding my breath.
Life is usually like that, with or without humans.
How about you actually read the article BEFORE you start tapping at the keys. The tree was taken out in sections over a period of time.
So when are we going to legalize growing industrial hemp? Would be less demand for wood, plastics, and other things you all keep complaining about. And don't troll this as a Mary Jane promo...it is already in the meds and you don't even know it. Crony Capitalism at it's best :/
what other so-called meds are we allowed to grow and produce ourselves?
This is absurd. Its not like its that easy to walk away with a 800 year old tree like that. Its a big forest, but its also easy to spot heavy equipment like that, particular-ally if they are stupid enough to keep coming back. Even if they are short staffed I would say this is some serious negligence on the rangers here.
Why would it be so difficult or expensive to have a helicopter fly over the area once a day to detect any changes or unusual activity? I know it's a pretty big area, but just seeing a chopper (pardon the expression) daily would change the minds of some of the would-be poachers. Is Canada as broke/bankrupt as the U.S.?
Jerryb-
A quick Google check shows the operating costs for a Bell 206B Bell Ranger helicopter is from $250 to $450 hour plus the pilot, so figure $350 to $550/hour X 8 hours = $2800 to $4400 a day X 7 days, well you see how expensive it gets pretty damn quick and they already have budget problems.
Hopefully, with enough publicity and public outrage, someone will come forward with some info and the poachers get arrested.
Humans: We destroy what we love to get what we want.
This is so easy. Battery powered motion sensing cameras are made for just this sort of thing. They use them in wildlife photography all the time, they are weather resistant and work night or day. obviously these people keep coming back so collecting information is not hard. Leaving the tree on the ground was an invite. The rangers should have contracted to remove and sell the tree and that would have given them more funds to fight this sort of thing.
I'm glad to see someone else was thinking this! Game cams are inexpensive and could have caught a few of these thugs. Leaving the tree on the ground was perfect bait. Instead, the government did the hard work for them (felling the tree) while they just got to reap the rewards.
Maybe that was precisely the plan. Perhaps we haven't heard the whole story yet. At this point I can only hope.
This tree is gone. No sense in worries for it as nothing can change that. Cutting down the tree is the easy part by the way. Sectioning it, loading it and hauling it off is the difficult part. The thing to consider is how was is hauled? Surely someone noticed a truck hauling a tree section that had an eight foot girth on a logging trailer. I don't know how remote the area was it was removed from but if there are few logging companies it would seem to be a simple ploy to investigate them to find which had the ability and had recent activity in the area.
I believe some were paid off to look the other way here. With few resources to manage all the reserved land it makes it more of a danger to fall to corruption. The penalty; through fines or imprisonment, should be way more than the value of the tree itself. A pig farmer in Virginia dumped the waste from his slaughter house into the bay a few years ago. Not because he had nowhere to take it but that the fine incurred from it was less than what it would cost him to have it treated. So he went and done the dastardly deed knowing full well if he were caught he would still have saved money.
Sometimes it takes a slap in the face like this to see a problem. I hope in the future they are better prepared for another instance like this and do something to stop it before its too late.
This story is really about the economy. No budget for the 94
rangers laid off in ten years let alone the rangers that should have been added
in that time period. I see the same thing happening here in the US. As a
fisherman I see boat launch areas and campgrounds closing at an alarming rate. These
budget cuts will spill over into manpower cuts. Without Park Rangers wildlife
poaching will get out of control and we will be back in the 1950’s when
poaching nearly wiped out deer and turkey populations. Let’s end our wars and
other efforts to police the world. Let’s bring our children home and start
taking care of ourselves.
Another naive and New World order socialist speaks out. The reason we have these problems is the diversion of manpower, capital and time on such zero-gain metrics. THe world is barbaric and since the last 2 generations of citizens are worthless whimps with no service to a way of life being wiped out by the western civilization's socialist leaders (Obama for one), we have allowed our countries to go out of control. The environment - idiots using bad science if at all to talk about global warming since the ozone hole one was proven to by false...
No - draft these handout types into government service to earn the monies they have been soaking our middle classes for their mere existence, and take them and John here and put them to good use like in the case watching out for these criminal loggers who probably had help from insiders.
No one noticed anything - yeah, right just like that cedar lumber got to a seaport or retailer without any Candian seeing or saying anything too - the problem is not the theft and destruction but the apparent apathy, lack of ethics and morality in today's youth who have done nothing to earn the rightful place in civilizations built by self-sacrificing and self-driven to success men and women in our hemisphere. Big Brother need not do anything if the people really cared and did the right thing without something in it for them.
The tree is a victim of corruption at the top, as well as, the population as a whole. A draft so people would see the world as it really is would make this tree seem more important than the silly cell phones and laptops and social media that today's people have built their life around these days. What a sorry aimless and ignorant lot they all be.
John - just don't tell us what to do - we have enough of that from the top already. Go out and do something if you believe in it so much. Being a spectator is as bad as those who commited this crime, and crime it was. And when these people are caught, quit the whining liberal sympathetic crap and punish these people in a lasting way - 25 years in prison withj a seizure of all property and funds, or simply deport them. Let them see what it is to not have a country like Canada to live in, and far too many Canadians take for granted especially the youth and the politicians who know more about this theft than first supposed.
And the press - a real sorry lot when they can not get out of their internet chari and go out and do some real gumshoe journalism in this case...they could find out where the lumber went if they really performed like their articles and mouths state.
Oh, yeppur, them younguns gots no gumption or moralities.....
Blame youth- blame anyone but the rich, who funded the election of politicians willing to sacrifice the needs of the many for the profit of the few.
Key point: there WERE 194 rangers.
Now they have under 100.
Who engineered that "fiscally conservative" budget cut- all while trashing huge areas in other places, now conveniently unmonitored, to remove tar sand with the intention of trashing more areas in the U.S. to pump the resulting sticky mess to Texas refineries?
You're certainly right about the journalism...this bit of fluff fails to delve into both the greed driving Canada's new policies and other consequences.
I suspect that was the grain of truth intended to lend credibility to the surrounding pack of lies.
But the rest of your rant?
You guys slay me- you claim to be Christian while embracing avarice as if it were the very will of God- all while deriding actual Christian charity as socialism.
Show me where the Bible speaks out against socialism- or better yet, give me chapter and verse regarding how the rich, having demonstrated their superior nature here on earth, will have card-bearing chauffeurs and stretch limos awaiting them at the gates of heaven to bear them in dignity to the mansions of a sumptuous afterlife.