I'm not sure if you can fight / win a cold war...while you are borrowing money from your "enemy" to keep your lights on and food on your table...hmmm...maybe a few years of Darwin would do the human species some good...

... Greece... will use their 'nuclear weapons'.

Perhaps you should check the listing of nations that does own up to nuclear weapons. Come on now, radicals for change is one thing however, they sometimes lead to anarchy.

Or was your comment 'tongue in cheek'?

The nuclear weapons are the Greeks saying no to austerity, and for the EU bankers they are threatening the Greeks with a wrecked economy, which has already happened. What more do the Greeks have to lose?

"Bankster" take-overs are only possible when you live way beyond your means without concern for your future. The USA is too close to that now, but we are not at the unsalvageable point. What I love with the leftist view point is that they expect Germany, etc. to loan money without strings when too much borrowed money is the problem in the first place. That is ignorant and extraordinarily self-centered of the Greek people. A little tough love is probably warranted here (like it probably is in the US a little too). Perhaps the German plan is to shock them with extraordinary austerity requirements and then slide back to slightly less drastic austerity so that the Greek people are more amenable. (Or perhaps that is what they should have gone for anyway).

The static portion of someone's name seems to apt. What I can't understand in your sentiment Alan is if you truly believe the statements you type or if you are just a troller with too much time on your hands. You really want the "debt portion" of our economic system to collapse do you? Return to the strict pay as you go economy? I really have to hope you are a troll. Otherwise, I can't imagine the world you want to live in - our population and living expectations have moved beyond the agrarian world your philosophy would dicate. How exactly do you think factories, buildings, stores, etc. get built? Do you think they are paid for in cash up front? You think people really want to give up their automobiles? Do you think people really want pay for everything in cash up front?

I've seen enough of your posts to know you expound on the idea of "erasing everyone's debts" and I've got to call you full of... You are either a troll or beyond naive about people, psychology, economics, etc.

So I'll close with the statement that your name is quite apt.

How odd that a Greek leftist would use nukes as a metaphor. Greeks wanted nothing to do with nukes on their territory during the cold war. I agree with Mr. Phil in his comment above (#1.1).

Greece has no economic nukes to launch. As as has been previously stated, it is the enemy who is feeding Greece. All Tsipras could bring to the negotiating table are threats.

Was he asleep when the news broke from the Euro Group working group that the euro zone should make contingency plans for a Grexit? The reason why that advice was given is because those in that group, as well as several heads of European states, are bracing for a leftist government in Greece and what will ensue afterward - a Grexit. From what I know, the E.U. is beginning work on a firewall against the Grexit.

I'm no economist, but for those of you who know more about economics, I ask this: Would it not be better to let Greece go and use monies earmarked for Greece in countries that could use the money and put it to better use? Can the E.U. survive a Grexit?

Notice that Tspiras said this is not a Greek problem but a European one. That's like blaming the forest for the fire rather than the arsenist.

Yes 'Don't be a Moron' while living in my mom's basement I don't work so I like to troll Newsvine all day.

Thank you for the confirmation.

Does anyone know how to turn down the white noise in here?

If you think this is bad, just wait until a few weeks before the election, it will sound like a cell phone recording of a cell phone recording of white noise, played over a drive through loud speaker

"The problem is not a Greek problem, it's a European problem," he said. "If Greece goes outside ... the eurozone, the second day, the next day, the markets will try and find who will be the next.

Just you Mr. Tsipras, and Greece of course. The EU will cut you out like the leperous cancer you have become. Better to lose the little gangrenous pinky toe than the rest of the healthy body. This idiot, who I must say could use a trip to the dentist or at least some teeth whitening, is talking about going to a gun fight with a Pez dispenser. Go for it you Left Wing Wack Job. Do it and then watch Greece become the EU's version of Haiti.

Sven, the EU is not a "healthy body", not by a long shot. They've got debt, interests, GDP and tax problems.

Why is the Left's mantra always:

"You better give me money or else!"?

The determining factor for Leftist thought, in my opinion, is that they always want to spend someone else's money. Just look at folks like Warren Buffet. He wants everyone else to pay more but he won't even pay the money he owes for roughly the last decade. Anyone who's company owes a billion in back taxes has no place telling anyone to pay more.

This guy is no different. The austerity measures are nothing more and nothing less than the Greeks paying their own way without Joe (or Jose or Hans) Taxpayer having to foot their bill. What he's proposing is tantamount to extortion.

Why is the Right's mantra always:

"You better give me money or else!"?

The determining factor for Right fascist thought, in my opinion, is that they always want to spend someone else's money. Just look at any republican politician. Republicans wants the middle class to pay more but corporations, and big business won't even pay and republicans dont want them to . Anyone who owes a billion in back taxes has no place telling anyone to pay more, exactly republicans.

Republicans are no different. The out of control military spending, constant wars, combined with subsidy's one of which is oil(but somehow not socialism, the bush tax cuts(unfunded), medicare part d, austerity measures have failed pretty much across the board are nothing more and nothing less than the republicans asking others to pay for their failed economic mistakes especially after those damn liberals left a surplus.

"To whom I owe, I forgive my debt." By all means, this is the definition of default.

Nobody forced Greece to borrow all that money. They wouldn't be where they are if they had lived within their own financial limits.

When you borrow money, the person who lends you the money pretty much owns you. That's been true since the beginning of civilization; ironic that the Greeks haven't been able to figure it out.

Sorry, but I have zero sympathy here. Let their country rot; maybe what comes out the other end will be better.

Greece may default, but the Germans and Brits would then not loan another dime to this country. Since they cannot pay their fundamental bills (let alone the interest on their loans), the Greek government will not be able to pay their internal 'debts'. The recipients will have to do without - and I am sure that the police, firemen, and garbage collectors will choose to work for free (this is sarcasm).

The end result is that Greece (regardless of whether they default) will be forced to both raise taxes and reduce expenditures. Their credit has run dry (and will remain dry for years to come). All those retired 50 year olds who make more in retirement than working will be forced to go back to work. Many of the government employees will need to be let go (only fundamental government services will be affordable).

This country will be very unhappy for a few decades. They chose to spend more than they took in for years (and make financial promises that were unsustainable). Now they have to either honor their commitments by raising the funds to support them, or reduce their commitments (or a bit of both).

The true irony is that the Greek economy used to be very robust. Reminds me of the story of the goose that lays the golden egg. And the Greeks ate too much roast goose.

This guy is your typical left wing socialist, he wants everyone else to give him their money so that he can spend it. Greece has no weapons to bring to this fight he is picking. The letter that went out to other euro zone nations to prepare for a Greek exit from the euro was a not so subtle hint to Greece to get out before they are thrown out. Germany has decided that they are not going to throw any more money into the black hole that Greece has become. They saw the election of someone like this idiot coming and realized there was nothing left that they could do to try and save Greece and to continue to try would only put the prospects of saving the rest of the PIIGS (Portugal, Italy, Ireland, and Spain) in even more jeopardy than it already is in. The left wing socialists in Greece are not willing to do what it takes to get their spending and debt level under control. On top of that, the Greek people have become so lazy and developed such an entitlement mentality from decades of out of control social spending by the government that they are wholly unprepared to go back to taking care of themselves. They are no longer equipped to survive without the government teat to suck on.

Right now the Brits are laughing themselves silly that they had the foresight to steer clear of the euro and stick with the pound. Joining the euro crowd meant giving up some of your sovereignty to the whole and the Brits were very wisely not willing to do that. Greece did that and now they are seeing the effect, they are being dictated to by Germany and the other euro zone nations about how to handle their country's finances. Unfortunately for Greece they are left with only two options, comply with the demands and receive help or refuse and watch what remains of their economy completely implode sending the country into chaos.

The socialists are out of money,
And I think it's funny!!!!!!

The EU never should have let them in in the first place. They didn't want to, but then Greece whined and cried until they were let in, and now they want the EU to support them and their lazy ways.

"Alexis Tsipras, leader of the Syriza party, said countries insisting on austerity measures in exchange bailout funds would not dare throw Greece out of the euro currency because that would cause a domino effect, plunging states like Italy into crisis."

There is no need to 'throw Greece out of the Euro currency' - the Germans will merely tell the Greeks that they will no longer get any 'bailouts', and then the Greeks will not have the funds to pay for all of those 'entitlements' that they want, and then there will be a REAL crisis in Greece. The only questions is "How will this play out", and that's anybody's guess, but here's mine;

The Greeks will elect the Socialist that promises 'No Austerity', and he will demand more concessions from the Germans, who will say NO, and cut off all new funds. Then the Greeks that understand what's happening will withdraw their deposits from the banks, but the government will put restrictions on that to prevent the banks from collapsing. When the government no longer has the funds to pay their payroll and promised pensions, there will be riots in the streets. Then the government will be forced to abandon the Euro and start printing Drachmas again, but at an exchange rate that nobody will buy - in fact, they will seize all Euros in people's accounts and 'exchange' them for Drachmas at a ridiculously low exchange rate - effectively wiping out people's savings and confiscating the funds of anybody with any financial assets, which means that imports of needed goods will be stopped, putting more pressure on the government and the Greek standard of living. The government will quickly run out of confiscated Euros to buy essential imports, and then the government will be powerless to do anything but print more Drachmas, which will cause inflation to soar. Meanwhile, virtually all tourism will stop because of safety concerns, putting even more pressure on the economy. This will quickly become an out of control spiral until there is complete chaos, and the Greek military finally takes control.

When the Italians see how much suffering the Greeks endure, they will keep doing what the Germans tell them to do. The European Union can barely afford to write Greek debt off, but they will make the process so painful on Greece that no other country will want that happening to them. If Italy were to fall, then most of the capital available in Europe, along with most banks, will disappear, and they will have another Great Depression.

Meanwhile, Obama keeps going along the same path that Greece did, insisting that "No austerity is needed - just more deficit spending'.

roy-

like bush was against deficit spending? 2 unfunded wars and tax cuts for the wealthy?

any and all governments are dyed in the wool spenders of others money. we need to revamp our government from the bottom up and return to a govt for the people by the people. it will not matter who takes the white house, it will all be the same. it will just determine who goes down first, but either way, it will be the middle class who suffers the most. but remember, no economy can survive without the spending of the middle class. wealthy hoarders cannot turn this economy around. we must put more spending power in the middle class. the wealthy cannot (and will not, due to greed) create jobs to produce products no one has the money to buy. the trickle down mentality is drying up our future.

Greece's showdown with Germany and the UK is not a "Cold War," it's more like a game of chicken. Tsipras is right about one thing, though: This isn't a Greek problem, it's a European problem...created by Greece.

funny how out of the collapsed weimar republic arose the third reich- without the help from the rest of europe or the u.s.- greece (or any other country) with a will and work can change their situation if the will is there. as far as debt goes i would ignore and forgive it- its all pretend anyway (govts print money and make policy, if the banks don't like it shut 'em down and create new ones. it is what is going to happen here evenyually after the republicans break the rest of us.

The EU banksters calling a possible Greek exit 'cataclysmic' is also extortion.

My fear is that this November we'll still have enough Bozo's in our own country voting to keep our free lunch program operational.

Until our house of cards collapses...

the real solution is a genuine MIXED economy -

first you have to have a system in place to encourage creativity, invention, and reward a good work ethic, then people will work hard to boost the economy and achieve self-reliance.

There will be a virtuous circle. But now Greece is stuck with a vicious circle which has caused a contagion on others due to the nature of globalization and regionalization of the European integration.

letusreason. In a nutshell; YOU NAILED IT!

I don't know- after Goldman Sachs helped create their problem, I think they have some reason to be mad. Europe needs to get it's financial checks and balances fixed, but it was our bank that sold Greece a bunch of crap products to make them look better for their EU debut.

Horsecrap. Look at how austerity is crushing their economy, calling for further austerity. Look at Ryan's budget... the Republicans will have us become the next Greece if they get elected.

You are exactly right. Socialists are more greedy than those guys on Wall Street.

SB, we deserve to become the next Greece. We've spent like drunken sailors on wasteful welfare programs and now it's time to feel some pain.

SBParrothead - A country can do anything it wishes with their own money. The problem here is the Greeks don't want to pay for their own government stimulus largesse. They want their more frugal neighbors to pay.

Nice try, but it doesn't work that way.

SB, we deserve to become the next Greece. We've spent like drunken sailors on wasteful welfare programs and now it's time to feel some pain.

I hope by welfare programs you mean social security, medicare, and defense. Those constitute most of the nation's spending

ALL programs need to be fixed, including SS and Medicare. The demographics in the US are such that the math doesn't work anymore. Defense also needs to be addressed. Closing bases in western Europe would be a good start.

SS is relatively easy, the problem is far enough out that only minor changes are necessary. Medicare is serious problems that require drastic action, particularly after Obamacare stole $500,000,000,000 from the fund. A voucher system seems the only viable way of saving the program. Medicaid, food stamps, etc. also need to be addressed, many other programs need to be cancelled altogether, (dept of education, dept of energy).

I have a solution for medicare, and yes minor changes to SS will push the need for drastic action far enough down the road that we/they can claim success...and yes most of the US Bases around the World are more diplomatic than stategic, and because America has no choice but to become a second world nation...defence needs to get a serious haircut...

But this biggest short, medium, and long term problem is still our trade deficits...currently ~$800 billion per Year ( that is more than Medicare, SS, and the Military) that is "real money" leaving the US economy destined for distant shores...while yes we need to deal with Federal Government corruption and inefiencies...most of that "spending" stays with in the US Economy

Government Austerity and PRIVATE entrepreneurial growth will help Greece. More loans to keep bloated government pensions and salaries floating will do about as much good as dumping gasoline on a fire!

After all this settles out I hope Greece finds ways to foster small business, planting seeds of future greatness and prosperity.

the people who think that a change in the white house is going to solve the problems in the us are living in a fantasy. it will not make any difference. the only thing that will make a difference is for the populace of our country standing up and UNITING (this will never happen of course) and standing up to the politicians. our country is no longer for the people, it is run by the corporations. we no longer elect representatives of the people, we elect representatives and shareholders of corporate america. someone above mentioned warren buffett not paying the taxes owed by his company. what about GE? they have not owed taxes in 2 years that i know of, and they are the largest corporation in the world. how is that possible?

why is no one raising the argument about the us infrastructure that is in sad state of disrepair? if we would stop policing the world and worry about ourselves, we would be so much better off. as it stands, we could not defend ourselves against outsiders due to strategic problems that would arise out of attempting to do so. we are weakened by our own government and its obsession with making the wealthy wealthier. meanwhile, the backbone of our great nation, the middle class, is dwindling to the point of possible extinction. austerity is always on the backs of the people, never by the government. they do not take paycuts nor do they takes cuts in their own benefits, so austerity should trickle down as well. the government should lead by example, and start cutting at the top. stop taking care of them for the rest of their lives. they chose their profession and they knew their time in office would end, so they should assimilate back into society as normal citizens. no more millions spent to give them an office or library for that matter. and no more salary or ss protection once you leave office. and buy your own healthcare, just like we have to.

valhalla phil - you are an idiot. if you actually read the healthcare bill you would know that it requires 500less so they removed the money for other things. of course, why bother to read the particulars just hate anything the president does . no wonder we're screwed.

The Greeks deserve blame but the banksters deserve much of the blame as well. The bankers made a bet and now they must lose.

Yes Alan, the banks will lose. And because of that, will now be reluctant to lend money to struggling countries like Spain and Italy. After all, it's not a bet, it's a loan. One they expected to be paid back.

The Greek goverment and it's people are solely responsible. They chose their life style and now find it is financially not sustainable.

The sadest comment of all is that a majority of Greeks voted for a clown with a promise that their life style could continue. Greece is now the poster child for the entitlement mentality.

reminds me of the failed US housing market. Loan money to people who don't qualifies except in a bubbled economy, get whatever you can out of the deal ( down money, mainly interest payments, "credit" rating)

Yeah, thanks Carter, Clinton, Frank and the the rest of the bleeding heart liberals that love to spend other people's money and made laws to enable people who couldn't afford it to get loans. Now they are not only broke, but their homeless and their credit sucks. Unintended consequences.

how is it that people want to say that this is the fault of "bleeding heart liberals that love to spend other people's money"? whose money do conservatives spend? their own? i think not. if society would stop allowing themselves to be polarized by the government and media, and actually have an original thought, they might see the plights of those around them and that the government has only its own well being in mind. well, theirs and those of corporate cronies that pay into the politicians coffers. if anyone thinks that any elected official will do anything to help the citizens, its time to wake up. we live in times of corruption and greed. and this permeates through all government and financial entities. all for one and none for all. we have allowed the scales to be tipped to much in favor of one side and now it will take a total collapse to correct it because the polarity of the populace is to deeply entrenched.

No one is disputing the fact that conservatives spend "other people's money" too, but conservatives tend to be less generous with it than liberals do. Even with the nation drowning in debt, liberals still insist we should be spending more of it.

Actually, if Italy falls, France is hosed. The French banks hold 250% of FRENCH GDP in Italian bonds!
If Italy defaults, France will have no choice but to (re)nationalize the banks. It might even cause the fall of the 5th Republic.

I would shed no tears if France crumbles.

You might! The US banking sector has exposure to France.

let's trade bonds... we need a patsy

Pigotry: How true! Having lived in Greece for more than twenty years, I found it, at first, peculiar why they so often spoke in the past tense. Then it dawned on me; that's pretty much where they live!

When Alexander the Great left to conquer the world, he told the Greeks not to do anything till he returned. The Greeks are still waiting.

We are all disgusted when the conservatives wasted 100 billion dollars on just one item - F-22 fighter jets which have never seen a day of real combat. Put this in context of decades of wasting away taxpayers' money.

We all disgusted when the unimaginative conservative president Bush's policies led to the Great Recession that has not only wasted opportunities but also wiped out savings of millions of people.

When November comes, the people will decide when the election really counts. Don't blame the rich if you rank and file don't even vote when it counts. We don't want a return of the disgusting conservative policies mentioned above.

And the liberal lies keep on coming. Democrats took over congress and inherited 4.6% unemployment and a booming economy. They destroyed it in less than two years.

It's disgusting liberal policies we don't want to go back to. If you were paying attention 2010 should have clued you into that. As Krouthammer said, "It wasn't so much an election as it was a restraining order."

why not spend? the green paper in your pocket has no value except what we pretend- so lets pretend we have no debt and move on!! for your own health quit watching fox it makes up whatever it wants and the mindless followers believe it

Mazking: Sooooooo TRUE!

Ancient Greece is well renowned for its tragedies and comedies. I'm not sure which of the two this play is. Well, actually, this is more like theatre of the absurd. Why? Because a common theme in theatre of the absurd is repitition of the same, and it seems Greece keeps making the same mistakes over and over and... !

Yep Brazil is still with us.

Reading all the post on this Forum, I see that the Bankers are out in force today. Sorry but its still a fact.. People before Profits!!!

People AND profits. You can't feed the people without them.

If you don't like banks don't do business with them. Take some personal responsibility.

Russian productivity was crap because there was no reward for it. I've known many Russians in my engineering profession, most just went through the motions back in Russia.

I see the problem, maybe I can explain...You don't think like a liberal...In a Liberals mind...Germany and Brittan have caused Greece's failure by being successful...think t-ball...Greece ( and others) would not be in this position if all of Europe were equally pathetic...the successful countries have taken the lion's share of the profits...therefore causing the desparity....dang-it now i have a headache

You mean the Obamacare modeled on Romneycare?

People keep referring to Britain and Germany as successful and wealthy countries while the poor socialist Greece is a drag. Someone should inform these people that both Britain and Germany with the richest being Germany are both more socialized than Greece . They have totally socialized medicine, mandatory vacation requirements of i believe 6 weeks a year. Businesses that have to pay employee's that are fired or laid off for 6 months and much higher minimum wages than we have. Amazing they can provide more for their people and still have lower debt. Maybe makiing the rich pay their fair share and not starting a war every time a republican is elected has something to do with it.

That's a lie. 55% of Germans don't work for the government, nor do the English. Both pay their taxes as well. Neither retire at 50.

Because of their socialist programs England and Germany are not healthy, they are just far more healthy than Greece. Britain has already said their health care system is not sustainable.

Exactly. This isn't some complicated multi-faceted problem. All of the individual issues that cause an economy to falter can be traced back to a few simple concepts. Human nature's tendency to not change habits unless it HAS to is a big one. Allowing them to fail will hurt short term, but will change habits. Every other country sees what happened to the last guy when he didnt change, and they dont want it to happen to them so they change their behavior.

The biggest is individual greed. Further, politicians rely upon people's greed. So do unions.

If the government is going to subsidize their citizen's living expenses, then that means less money citizens pay out of their pocket. That's how citizens see it. Why pay for something if the government will pay for it.

The problem is the government will tax it's citizens to pay for it. As the benefit's costs increase, tax revenues have to increase to cover it, or government has to borrow it. Overtime, citizens have less money overall from their paychecks working for someone or working for the government, because the government has to take more and more of it to pay for the subsidies.

Citizens then use "underground" cash only market to have cash in their pocket. That "underground" market isn't taxed. Governments get into trouble when they can't tax the citizens anymore, tax businesses anymore, can't borrow the money anymore to pay for what they promised the people they would pay for.

Volia Greece, and Italy, and Spain, and Portugal, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, England, and even France where socialistic economies where government subsidizes living expenses for it's citizens or promises retirements for it's citizens based upon their economy and tax revenue thus budgets , ever growing without fail.

Nothing selfish about wanting corporations and the wealthy to pay a similar tax rate to what the rest of us pay.

you miss the entire point.

If the government didn't subsidize everyones living expenses, paid for by taxes, didn't promise union workers high wages and pensions,paid for by taxes, then you wouldn't have to be taxed at a high rate.

but the politicians, those characters the people elected to run their country, bank on one simply thing. Individual's greed. If the government pays for it, the citizens become dependent upon it to pay for it, and then will vote for anyone who will make sure those subsidies aren't cut, and will increase them.

All that means is more and more taxes are needed to pay for it. That's why you pay a high tax rate.

For a minute there I thought you were describing the US. We are following suit very closely. Borrow borrow borrow. That's all officials know how to do besides give themselves raises. Now no one is willing to lend and they are broke. We are not much better off now, having to borrow money from China? No one is willing to do what is necessary.

Reducing our number of invasions each time we elect a republican would be a good start. A trillion here a trillion there these wars add up.

While I agree with you about the invasions, the 5 trillion in the last 3.5 yrs didn't come from republicans in control.

Seems Kennedy and Johnson did a good number on Viet Nam and it took a republican to get us out. Nam killed 10x more than our entire middle east effort and people were forced against their will to serve via the draft. Nam didn't harbor terrorists, didn't threaten the US with WMD's, didn't violate any no fly zones, didn't gas their own people to death.

Also, liberals said we should have gone into Afghanistan, as well as conservatives. Both voted to go to war.