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Alex Salmond, Scotland's first minister and leader of the Scottish National Party attends a campaign for Scottish independence with supporters at Cineworld on May 25, 2012 in Edinburgh, Scotland.
With rousing speeches, patriotic music and support from actor Sean Connery, supporters of independence for Scotland launched a campaign on Friday that they hope will lead to the demise of a 305-year-old union with England and the breakup of Britain.
"This is the beginning of something really special - the beginning of the campaign to restore nationhood to Scotland," Alex Salmond, leader of the Scottish National Party (SNP), told hundreds of supporters in a hall in the capital Edinburgh.
"We want a Scotland that is fairer and more prosperous."
The campaign hopes to tap into a blend of historical rivalry, different political tastes, and a perception that the British parliament in London does not safeguard Scotland's interests to win a referendum in 2014, which would pave the way for full independence two years later.
If successful, the drive could create serious problems for Britain, which comprises England, Scotland and Wales (Britain is in turn part of the United Kingdom, which also includes Northern Ireland).
Bates College student dies after going swimming at Scottish beach
With its kilts and tartans, bagpipes and whiskey, Scotland has a distinctive, if romanticized, culture. It also has a darker history of poverty, violence and ill health, notably concentrated in the largest city Glasgow, once an engine of the British Empire.
Scotland already has many of the trappings of an independent nation such as its own flag, sports teams, and a history of achievements in science and literature.
Britain's current government, a coalition between the Conservative Party and the Liberal Democrat Party, is opposed to Scottish independence, as is the opposition Labour Party. Britain is stronger as a union, they argue, and an independent Scotland might struggle on Europe's fringes.
The SNP's Salmond, speaking in front of a giant screen showing a cloud-flecked blue sky, had no such doubts.
He said his aim was to get one million Scots to sign the "Yes Declaration" before the referendum.
Support from Sean Connery
Under a devolved system of government, the Scottish parliament created in 1999 controls health, education and prisons, while the British government in London controls everything else, including foreign policy and defense.
"If the parliament can run education, why can't we run the economy? And if we can protect our old people why can't we protect ourselves without the obscenity of nuclear weapons?" Salmond told the audience.
The launch event drew on rousing patriotic music and a film showing the country's stunning Highland landscapes, fishermen, universities, and, inevitably, leaping kilt-clad dancers.
It also relied on celebrity endorsement. A message of support was read out from actor Sean Connery, an Edinburgh milkman before he found fame as secret agent James Bond.
Hollywood actor Brian Cox called Scotland's current predicament "centralized servitude" and related how, like many Scots, he had become disenchanted by previous Labour governments led by former prime ministers Tony Blair and Gordon Brown.
"The parliament at Westminster can see no further than the end of its own bridge," he said.
Scotland's national poet Liz Lochhead read out a poem focused on English-Scottish rivalry in the 16th century.
Opinion polls show that around 40 percent of Scottish people are sympathetic to independence, with around 10 percent undecided and the remaining 50 percent opposed. South of the border in England, polls show people are largely apathetic.
Author Harry Reid said the referendum's success may hinge on whether the Labour Party, traditionally popular in Scotland, can revive its fortunes.
Scotland is more inclined to vote for the left, whereas English voters have voted in much larger numbers for the right, underscoring a political fault line between north and south.
Although the Conservative Party won more votes than any other party at the last British general election in 2010, it won only one parliamentary seat in Scotland.
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One joke doing the rounds since two Chinese pandas took up residence in Edinburgh Zoo notes that there are now more pandas in Scotland than Conservative MPs.
Diminished role?
Scotland's preference for a more center-left brand of politics that favors egalitarianism over the free market is reflected in education policy. In England, students have to pay large tuition fees to attend university, whereas in Scotland such education remains free for Scots.
Reid said disenchanted Labour voters who switched to the SNP in disgust at Labour's support for U.S. foreign policy in Iraq and Afghanistan may yet return to the fold. If they do, Scotland's dreams of independence could evaporate, he said.
"If we're going to get a decent Labour government back in 2015 people might wonder whether they really need independence."
Despite its relatively small population of just over five million, compared to England's population of just over 52 million, there are also fears that a "yes" vote would diminish Britain's voice on the world stage.
"The rest of the world would be surprised and shocked that the UK was unable to hold together," Professor John Curtice of the University of Strathclyde told Reuters in a phone interview.
Total plugs gas leak off Scotland's coast after 7 weeks
Britain would find it harder to maintain its voice within international bodies such as at the U.N. Security Council or the European Union.
There are also questions about whether Britain would be able to keep its nuclear submarine fleet in Scotland, where it's now based. Also, revenues from Scottish North Sea oil remain important to its coffers.
But history runs deep and, symbolically, the independence referendum will be held on the 700th anniversary of the 1314 Battle of Bannockburn, when an army commanded by England's King Edward II was defeated by a smaller force led by Robert the Bruce, a source of enduring pride for Scottish patriots.
Scotland and England have shared a monarch since 1603 and have been ruled by one single parliament in London since 1707. The SNP's Salmond has said an independent Scotland would retain Queen Elizabeth II as its monarch.
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Leave a Comment:
Sean Connery: Best Bond Ever!
I'll take Jason Bourne over James Bond any day of the week!
If the the Scottish want to be free from the British Empire by all means do it. William Wallace would be proud!
"Freedom!!!"
The Scots need to be free. The country needs to be shaken AND stirred, according to Bond.
But the Scots need to look across to mainland Europe to realize that a free country in today's world faces huge economic challenges. Are they equipped? Are they interested in entering the EU? It hasn't helped Ireland much, the Irish struggle and still have to put up with a Euro worth $1.35.
Perhaps, I am the only one here who believes Scotland could get a better deal remaining part of Britain. In a time when a good part of the world has gone nutty: Iran, Pakistan, North Korea, Venezuela, Afghanistan, Greece, and dozens others, Great Britain (for whatever its faults,) is and has been on the right side of history...most of the time. Britain made grave errors in Scotland (and Ireland,) but its contributions to the world include the expansion of democracy (Magna Carta,) and it stood alone against Hitler at the beginning of WWII. It would be a loss for the Scottish people to break away from one of the greatest nations on Earth.
Motz
Scotland helped make Britain but the world turns and there's little point trying to cling to past glories.
If Scotland does decide to go it's own way then Britain will show the world how to deal with it in a civilized manner.
Scotland's move for independence is purely financial; UBS is one of the world's largest hedge funds
and with an independent Scotland, it would give it (and many other large derivative funds) a freer
playing field with sovereignty protections attached to it. Do not think that the UK bankers do not know this; this not the authentic, folksy movement that you think it is.
A free trade zone for
London invented the 'synthetic' credit swaps, bets if you will. Happy to see the scots leave northern Ireland and return to their homeland or Chicago, their choice.
Britain's current government, a coalition between the Conservative Party and the Liberal Democrat Party,
LOL one more thing the US has in common with UK
I wish them all the best. It was the unification of the crown and merger of Scotland into Britain that made my Great x8 Grandfather move to Canada from our ancestral lands in Glengarry. Scotland has the diversity of industry, the smarts and the heart to be their own nation. Now, I like Britain and as a Commonwealth nation and subject of the Queen, I am loyal to them, but Britain's time is past. The Empire is long gone, and holding together what's left of it is only keeping people firmly planted where they are instead of letting them take the steps they need to in the right direction. Though England and Wales feel it would be a negative, I think in the long run it would help them both to rediscover their own path as well.
Good luck Scotland - I hope one day when I can visit my homeland, it will be the free country my clan fought for so many centuries ago.
Aaron,
By all means visit Scotland, you will love it. I made Scottish ancestor trek there in 1999 and was enchanted. My first thought was "Why, oh, why did my Gordon and Grey ancestors leave this paradise?" Whoops, they couldn't own the land they'd farmed forever. And, my great grandfather (once a Bobbie in Dumfries), puzzled by Irish immigrants pining for the OLDE SOD, often remarked, "Scotland, I'll never go back, with luck I'd have a pot of tea and bit of oatmeal at breakfast and dinner." When his new Montana neighbors, hearing his thick Scot's burrgh (sp) remarked, "Ah Davey, you're a Scotsman." He respond, "No, I'm an American." Fight fiercely, Sir Sean!!
After over 300 years there might be an independent Scotland. It's only been 150 years since our Civil War, maybe there will be a Confederated States of America !
Good riddance to a system based on the labor of slaves. It ain't coming back.Comparing a rigged together coalition to Scotland is an insult to the Scots.
Ron, I don't want the Confederacy back. But nobody 30 years ago thought the Soviet Union would break up. No body thought Chechoslovakia, or Yugoslavia, and the list goes on and on would break up. I was being tongue in cheek about the South. There are secession movements in Alaska, Hawaii, and at least 3 other states. Are there any other ethnic regions of Scotland who would prefer to stay British ? Or be seperate from both ? I don't know ! Before a country breaks up it better have thought of all those things !
By the way, a poll here in the UK suggested that support for independence is actually higher in England than in Scotland.
Adam--and my guess would be that just as many states's residents in the US would welcome the 'secession' of states here that get more than they put in to the nations's coffers, many in England resent the drag Scotland has been on England's economy.
Adam
Yes, I believe the support is driven by two main factors
1) English misunderstanding of the actual economic realities, they believe they're paying Scotland's bills.
2) Hurt, many of those I've spoken to seem to be acting like spurned lovers.
Sorry but you are Canadian Not Scottish afraid your stuck with it eh.
Scotland should become independent country and take matters into their own hands.
Scotland has no armed forces (except for infantry regiments), so I suspect they would stll want the Royal Navy to protect the North Sea oil rigs, the Royal Air Force to provide air security. That doesn't sound very independent.
No one is going to invade any oil reserves these days in Europe.
They have more than we started out with. Good luck to them, I wish my ancestral home a happy independence!
Alba gu brà th!
RT
Scotland doesn't have any armed forces at all, they're all part of the British armed forces.
While Scotland seeks greater freedom & independence, on the continent they're deciding whether or not to give up their individual nations. It can be a bloody process though - it wasn't until the northern states crushed the southern ones in the "Civil" War (ushering in a century of poverty for the losers) that the US settled the question of ultimate sovereignty.
Europe is all fought out, there's no war left in them.
Never underestimate mankind's ability to wage war.
Right, I'd say there is war energy being reborn every 20 years.
Rtcolorado , did you forget about Serbia and Bosnia ? The jealousies that led to WWI and II still exist . WWII was caused by the rapacious Treaty of Versaille and the subsequent world wide Depression . Given Europe's present economic woes , don't think these things can't arise again . Just because the fuse has remained dampened for a while , that doesn't mean Europe isn't still a powder keg .
I want to know how they plan to accomplish this. Having them get on stage and start singing and dancing is not likely to carry the day. If all they can muster is 40% popularity now when the conservatives are in power that does not speak well for their cause. Before they take this onto the world stage they need to get their house in order first.
Cut them some slack. It took the Republic of Ireland a while and a lot of blood to get from under the thumb of England...as it did with us.
Yep, give them a little time. The call for independence is only a couple hundred years old. And Sean Connery has been supporting it for most of those hundreds of years...or so it seems.
Well the Republic of Ireland is hardly a great role model to go by... but Yes, I guess an independent Scotland just might look like them - unable to defend themselves. Look at the mighty Irish Defence Forces as a good example. The IDF's tiny little "Air Corps" (not even called an Air FORCE) doesn't even own a single Jet Fighter! They have a handful of turbo-prop cesna's in their fleet. So guess who is left to defend the skies over Southern Ireland? Yep, you've got it... the Brits! The British RAF actually defends Irish air space, even though the Republic of Ireland has been independent from the United Kingdom of Great Britain since 1922. So perhaps it is a good example for an independent Scotland to look towards?
Jon Holland, just who exactly is chomping at the bit to to attack or invade " the skies over Southern Ireland?" is there some nation that the RAF is at this very minute fighting off to keep Ireland safe? how did I not know about this?! why do you just assume that they are in need of defending themselves at all?
Jon , and America defends the UK's air space , so what's your point ?
Yes, of course you are right Mark. All those RAF pilots who take off from RAF bases in the UK every day, to patrol British air space are actually American pilots in disguise, and those planes they fly are really USAF aircraft (also disguised with RAF markings) Which begs the question... what exactly are the RAF doing every day - well apart from the few who fly over Irish skies, keeping the UK's neighbours safe. Perhaps the rest of the Royal Air Force are hiding away somewhere drinking tea, whilst the United States Air Force patrols British air space for them. Yeah, yeah, I know there are US Air Force bases in the UK but they are there to stage operations in Europe (and beyond) as a staging base, not to routinely patrol over British air space, which you obviously believe they are doing?
Laddies, the best of luck. You sure really don't need England to tell ya what to do! We yanks figured it out a few years ago...
Yes but us Yanks took up arms to win our independence. Somehow I don't see this happening.
'
Gee David1159, you seem disappointed that Scotland doesn't invade England or commit acts of terrorism. This is reality Dave...not "Braveheart 2012". The Scots have done their share of fighting.
As long as they can't get the majority of their population behind them I just can't see this happening. I don't know what it would take to break from the United Kingdom but as long as England is against it they are going to have difficulty. So long as it benefits England more than it costs it does not seem to me that it will happen.
David
Scotland has voted in a majority SNP Government, bear in mind the system was set up to make that almost impossible, yet it's happened. The SNP have at about two years to show their worth and to win their argument.
Well, this certainly good news to read. I hope Scotland can regain its independence and once again, become the great sovereign country they once were...free from the rule of England.
This is a common misunderstanding, yes the English MP's make up the bulk of Parliament but it's a British Parliament not an English one.
According to my cousin, the family genealogist, we are descendents of William Wallace. So this is pretty interesting news. :)
MSpielman--with names like Douglas, McBride, Richardson and Graham all over My family tree, I don't have to WONDER whether I have roots there!
There has been more blood shed than there ever will be ballots cast for Scottish freedom. Brits out!
They are Brits
Why not "Scots Out!" and return the land to the Picts? Oh, wait, the Scotti (Irish) killed off the Picts when they invaded the land and took it for themselves. HMMM Would have made the whole thing easier if the Normans had done the same to the Irish (Scotti) that they did to the Picts.
The Scottish people are IRISHMEN who invaded the present area called Scotland. Having lost their autonomy to the U K, they have no more right to independence and control of the area than the original Picts.
No they didn't, look up the BBC series A History of Scotland by Neil Oliver.
If it wasn't for the revenue the Scots get from the north sea oil, you wouldn't hear a peep out of them.
The best part of Scotland is the road out.
How many of the five million actually live and work in Scotland?
Rule Brittania
Seems your handle should be Tory. Yes torrens, whatever will they do with all that North Sea Oil. I believe Scotland will do better without England that England will do without Scotland.
Alba gu bràth!
The vast majority of them.
OK Rick I am on your side. The Normans were not French they were Vikings, Normandy is French for Norse Land. The part of France that was taken over by the Vikings Was called Normandy. King Harold of England beat the Vikings on the East coast of England in 1066. But William 1 beat him at Hastings in 1066 William of NORMANDY was a NORSE MAN not a FRENCHMAN. The Normans also invaded Ireland and Wales, The welsh and Irish Castles were built by Normans. The word Scot is Urse (Irish) for Raider, they invaded western Scotland And the people of North East Scotland are of Scandinavian and Saxon Descent. I was born in England I think I am a Mongrel, arf- arf. My Nephew works on the Oil Rigs in the North Sea. Scotland Owns very Little of it, even less than England and England does not own the majority, (I Think Norway does) so if they separate; Scotland will probably fail to sustain it's self. All the old history is BS, Countries have to learn to live in today's world the past is gone, we must just learn from history to avoid the mistakes of the past.
But unfortunately the Scots are all talk and no action (always have been, and always will be) They love to talk trash about the English, and run their mouths about how they are Scottish and NOT British, but when it comes to it.... Well let's all wait and see what happens with this Referendum in 2014. They won't have the guts to vote for independence, mark my words. The funny thing is, the whole independence thing is far more popular south of the border: most English (and Welsh) people want Scotland to leave the U.K. as they've all had enough of them whining like silly little children. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see the voters of Scotland actually grow a pair, but it aint gonna happen people - not in our life time.
If they want to go more socialist, bad move. It only works when you have other peoples money.
Valhallla, Your socialism doesn't work spielis old and tired. The most sucessful countries in Europe have socialist governments. Germany the richest has one as do the Swedes, Norwegians, Finns and Danes. All provide those social programs that you righties despise like a free college education for all and universial health care. What they don't have is a is military that is way to big for their countries own interests. What the don't have is troops in over 130 other countries.
Good things about Scotland, Beef, Scotch, Scenery, and Mr.& Mrs. David Hume my old freinds in America.
Scotland should stand apart. Just as my beloved Texas should. I also believe that northern Ireland should be freed of the English tyranny and oppression it has long endured.
Christopher: I could not agree with you more wholeheartedly. Scotland should stand apart because they are a distinct culture. And Texas should stand apart because the United States would be better off without the Bush dynasty, Cheney, Enron, the Oil Hegemony, and all the unscrupulous Christian businessmen and politicians who resemble Elmer Gantry.
Christopher - do the actual people of N Ireland get a say in this? Last I checked they very much wanted to stay despite the 'tyranny and oppression' we English apparently inflict on them. Shall we forcibly cut them out of the union, against their wishes do you think? What would that involve?
Agree with you LondonHan. The majority of people in Northern Ireland want to remain part of the United Kingdom, that is not in dispute.
Christopher- does this mean you want to give Texas back to it's pre-squatters owner, Mexico.
I think it's a great idea myself.
Han and gw1
You two seem to forget the Catholics in Northern Ireland are gaining on the prods there. Tioc Ar La.
More power to Scotland! While I'm English by blood, Scottish by name, I so want to visit my homeland.
S.McIlnay,
Mc, Is and always will be IRISH. Mac is and always will be Scottish. I was born
in ENGLAND, I was Raised in England, neither is ENGLISH my Last name is Welsh,
English or Scottish, BUT it originates from Helwig, Do not ask me how it
boggles my mind. I was born in England but I am a US citizen and this IS MY
HOMELAND,it is just not the land of my birth. If it were not for the US I would
probably be dead, I bless this country for 81 years. McIlnay is definitely NOT
a Scot Name, if it were it would be MacIlnay.
Since Bonnie Prince Charlie and his Highlanders and Irish allies virtually invented the modern war of national liberation, it seems only right that his heirs should benefit.
Cassandra: Bonnie Prince Charlie Invented modern liberation warfare? He spent most of his life in France, he was a Fop. His heirs were Irishmen that stole the land from the original inhabitants, they annihilated the Pict's, and the first Scottish Clan was the Fraser clan, started by the "Comte DE Fraselere" or something like that (I have a hard enough time spelling English so forget French) he was a favorite of William the Conqueror, he started Clans to get control over the Scots. There are no true Scot's as there are not any really true English or Italian, etc, etc. Did you ever hear the song, Charlie is my darling the Gay Cavalier. Gay as in Happy or Jolly, not in today's abrogation of the term. He was if anything NOT A SOLDIER. I suggest you research the Kings (and Queens) of England and Scotland, Scotland in those days had close ties to France and the Vatican.
Well, if a movie star says it's a good idea, that settles it-- it's a good idea.
Like most of you, Scotland has no clue. Before anyone says that I'm British, I come from Irish and Scottish background. If Scotland votes for its independence, then let them live with consequences, no help from the USA we can not afford it. They will become a third world nation within 3 years (if not sooner), which means they will sale their naval bases to the highest bidder. They do not generate enough revenue to support themselves. People there think that money will flood in from Scottish descendants like Israel, and that will not happen. Then you have the problem when people start trying to claim land and rights because the British stole them (sounds like people in the USA). They will probably lose all rights to the oil fields also, under contract right now.
They will not have an army, those soldiers are British troops with British equipment. The soldiers will still have to serve their obligation. They have no navy or coast guard to keep out immigrants and illegal substances (drugs or weapons). The police will not be full equip, Scotland Yard with all information goes to Britain.
Rich people will move their money out because of the risk of the country. Very little investment to invest in the economy.
These are only a few problems they face. But like people here, they are acting without thinking things through.
I'm sorry but you're wrong, Scotland pays it's way, I believe it pays the second highest per-capita amount to the exchequer after London
The armed forces of Britain will be without doubt one of the many things that will need discussion and New Scotland yard isn't actually Scottish, it's in London.
Yes Scotland Yard is London, but their database and other assets (like labs) is used throughout Scotland to aid in crimes. Also the manpower behind it also disappears.
Scotland does not make enough in taxes to cover the cost that it would take. Economy of scale and help from England would disappear. Their taxes would go up about 30 to 40% to make it work, government employees are not going to work for free and the workers that are paid by United Kingdom has to be picked by the people of Scotland.
Not so,perhaps you didn't realize but Scotland has it's own police forces, it's own legal system.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics-news/2012/01/17/single-scottish-police-force-and-single-fire-service-could-save-country-1-7bn-says-kenny-macaskill-86908-23704230/
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Justice/legal
Once again you're wrong
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/11/scotland-12288-union-public
You do not understand economy of scale. When you use and buy less of something the price is higher. Example when a small town buys a car for its use it is higher then when New York city that buys 15 of the same car by a good bit. Take anything and that is true. No different then state governments if they succeed from they United States. There is not one state that would be able to afford it, a lot would say they could but in reality non could.
Lets look at extra cost. President/Prime Minister and their cabinet, a army head quarters with the extra personal, and all the offices that a normal country has that Scotland does not have. Who is going to pay for this, because it going to cost more then a 1,000 pounds a person. We have not even start about their cars and equipment.
Look at currency there is another problem. They will not probably be allowed to join the Euro. So they have their own currency who is going to keep people from counterfeiting it and making it worthless. That is another department that is going to cost you megabucks alone look how much a country has to spend on that.
Also look at what the GDP of Scotland would be and then look at what percentage of that would cover their expenses. I do not care about theories, Greece had a theory on how the economy would work for the last 10 years, and have had their own economist said it would work.
The Scotland police still utilizes Scotland Yard and MI5 resources. No difference then state and local police here in the USA that uses FBI resources, like finger print databases, labs, experts, and etc.
Then why as the one of the world’s largest oil consumer do we pay more, according to you we
should pay much less. Are you suggesting that SOMEONE is STEALING FROM US.
Heaven forbid, we have a group in Washington to look out for us. You also
forget to mention that a great deal of Scotland is UNINHABITABLE, "Beautiful", but not a good place to live, farm or work, the people that live there are one tough bunch, but the Country only has about 10% of the United Kingdom's population. I love Scotland it is one of the most beautiful places I have ever been, but I do not have the guts to live there. If you go to Scotland go to Oban it is breath taking. I have not been north of Edinburgh on the east of Scotland but I am told it is equally as lovely. Ediburgh Castle is a sight you will never forget.
I can read, the figures show Scotland is viable and you seem to forget that Alex Salmond is an economist.
We already have a First Minister, Scotland has a Parliament.
Scotland pays towards the British armed forces at the moment as we wouldn't be invading countries at the behest of America every few years our costs will be much lower than they are now. Scotland has MOD offices, barracks and airfields.
What don't you understand about Scotland having a Parliament, it already has a civil service in place, yes we'd have to open Embassies but that's about it.
We already print our own notes under licence from the Bank of England, the Scottish pound isn't that far fetched
Once again it already exists as I've stated we already print our own notes
Do you mean the fake expenses you've detailed here?
You seem confused New Scotland Yard isn't our FBI, it's the headquarters of the MET.
Information yes, labs no, Britain isn't America, we're not set up in the same way
Gordon
Yes, the run out from Glasgow is beautiful.
Scotland does not print its own currency. Even if they did print their own currency, it would be worth a lot less then the English pound, nobody would have faith in it and you have no credit rating. Also, most people are talking about Scotland using the English pound. England will punish you economically if you try ( and most people would not blame the England). Also your biggest banks are own by England since they bailed them out. You have to apply for joining the Euro, Germany will stop that, since you be seen as another Ireland.
"I can read, the figures show Scotland is viable and you seem to forget that Alex Salmond is an economist." I have known a lot of economist to be wrong lately.
Scotland goes have a parilment, but does not fully function like the United Kingdom Parilment. Like here in the USA, all our states have governors and congress, senate, and supreme courts but they can not cover all what the Federal Government does.
Your MI5 is like our FBI as you see in movies. The FBI also does the database , information, and does help with experts.
As for those military bases there is some questions as to who they belong to, just like your beloved oil feilds.
Also another joke in the international community is Scotland trying not to join NATO. You will be strong armed into.
You really don't know anything about Scotland at all do you?
I said "We already print our own notes under licence from the Bank of England"
http://www.scotbanks.org.uk/banknotes_current_bank_of_scotland.php
That's just speculation on your part nothing more.
Try to understand, your contention is that it would cost a great deal of money to create Government departments, those not already under the control of the Parliament still exist, under the control of the Scottish office
I would suggest that Mi5 are more like the American NSA, I note you've dropped the Scotland yard claims.
They belong to the MOD which stands for Ministry of Defense, in others words the Government. In an independent Scotland they would belong to the Scottish MOD.
As for the Oil and Gas
http://www.niesr.ac.uk/pubs/searchdetail.php?PublicationID=3179
Don't be silly, what are they going to do invade us.
I'm away for a few days, I'll answer any points when I get back.
As for Scotland Yard you need the information and the training. The it department alone, will cost you a lot of money to make up.
As for economist all you need to do is look at your economy and the world economy and tell me how they are doing are great job.
These actually belong to the Unite Kingdom's Ministry of Defense and they do not have to give them up, they probably will give up the land but strip it down to the land. The Scottish MOD falls under the United Kingdom MOD. In fact most of your departments can be overridden by the United Kingdom parliament.
The Geneva agreement does work under certain rules. The problem is that BP has rights to them and you are going to have to pay them for those rights or take them by force. If you take them by force them most countries will not deal or invest with you.
Look at the two list below. The difference is what you have to pick up. There is no speculation on that, ask your government representative about it and what is going to cost.
Here is list of
Scottish departments
Deputy First Minister
Department for Health, Wellbeing and Cities Strategy
Department for Finance, Employment and Sustainable Growth
Department for Infrastructure and Capital Investment
Department for Education and Lifelong Learning
Department Secretary for Justice
Department for Rural Affairs and the Environment
Department for Parliament and Government Strategy
Department for Culture and External Affairs
The United Kingdom departments
I did not see a treasury of Scotland anywhere.
You will also need a national security force, those are really cheap also. You will probaly have terrorist, one you all learn how hard things are and your economy fails and no one helps (unless Obama is president, he will give you a couple of billion of dollars we can not afford).
Plus you get a large debt to deal with.
For the last time New Scotland Yard is only the headquarters of the Metropolitan Police Force nothing more.
Compared to what?
The figures are there, if you want to challenge them then do so but please stop using speculative comments as evidence.
The MOD is the UK's Ministry of Defence, it's a Government department, such land would still be Government land after Independence, it would simply be the Scottish Government that owned it. A lot of the MOD land is used for firing ranges and for exercises.
If they didn't there would be no point in wanting independence would there?
I'm sorry but what is it you think we're discussing?
They pay tax, afterward they will still pay tax only the bulk of the revenues will accrue to Scotland.
You seem obsessed by things being taken by force, this will be an amicable divorce between two civilized Countries
You still haven't got your head around the idea of the Scottish office have you?
http://www.scotlandoffice.gov.uk/scotlandoffice/30.html
It will cost less than we're paying now.
We have Police departments to deal with that
Speculation.
If they can afford it, so be it. Good luck folks.
I don't like the selected facts provided in this story meant to educate me on the background history. Seeing how I'm not all that educated, so I'm puzzled as to why stories are written in this way. Did I miss something?
For example. Wasn't the formation of the British Empire done by the 6th throne of Scotland? James, 6th of Scotland 1st of England? Wasn't it a bloodless union? Weren't even the Irish one and the Dutch involved? Didn't he outlaw slavery in the British realm? Didn't he establish east Indi trading and create much of the civilization your standing on and the modern language we use? Why does lefty hate on him and never like to mention his name? Is it the bible? Did he make lefty mad by authorizing the translation and mass printing of the bible for the British? Ya, he made the pope mad with that one too. I guess you Scotts could give shyte .5 Even the United states was part of YOUR empire for over 100 years.
An independent nation? So they want back the days when Romans invaded Celts and Picts, then Iberians invaded the Romans, then Franks invaded Iberians, then Saxons invaded Franks, then Danes and more Normans and Vikings, Then the Saxons strike back ( I could be wrong on the order, but I'm wingin it). You went from that to inheritor of the crown of greatest empire to get on a boat in a 1000 years. Now you want to chuck it because you watched Braveheart or some crap like that? Why didn't you help Charles in the last "grand revolution"? I'll tell you why, cause you would whack your grandma for a nickle and a sad song.
Put down the bottle, put on your pants and remember; Righty Tighty, lefty loosey.
Howie, youre comment is great. It won't be given much attention in these quarters Im sure though- not where the prevailing narrative seems to be of that we on this side of the pond are bloodthirsty English Pigdogs enslaving a Scottish nation. Look how many times the word 'freedom' is used in these comments. Mind bending.
And just to throw this out there, surveys in England and Wales regularly show much higher positives towards Scottish independance than even in Scotland.
The Scots that seek independance want to keep the queen, they want to keep the currency, they want to remain as good friends to us as they are now. Yes thats right, the people of England and Scotland in the year 2012 do in fact see each other as very close friends in this world, not mortal enemies.
But yeah... Braveheart, Freedom, blah blah blah
give it a rest: You do not know what you are talking about, William Wallace wanted to be King of Scotland, he did not give a Damn for the common man. And if the truth be known neither did the English Royalty. Sean Connery although he is my favorite 007. Should renounce the Knighthood, that he made such a fuss to obtain from the Queen of ENGLAND. After all how can an ENGLISH KNIGHT represent another Country.(it is like dual citizenship "Phony" you can only serve one country). It is easy to be a Liberal when you have attained wealth, ask Barbara Streisand; she can tell you. (I do not begrudge her her wealth, she worked very hard for it) You are comparing actors not "Real People". The stories they portray are not real and neither are the characters. If you go far enough back in history; of which you obviously know little. The word Scott itself is an IRISH (Urse) word for Raider. One part of the Movie Brave heart is true "Our Irish Cousins" Scotland by history is Part Irish and the other part Scandinavian. Before that it was occupied by the Pict's; they were driven North by the Romans from Northern England. Scotland as it is today is best off being left to its own determination, without interference from either You or I. Our feelings on the matter do not count. Scotland is a tiny place. The farthest you can travel in the British Isles is from Lands end in Cornwall to John O'groat's in Scotland approximately 660 miles and about 2/3 of that distance is in England; also a small country. I would suggest as they say in the old Country (or at least used to when I was a boy there 66 years ago) Shut yur trap mate ere comes a bloody buss. But of course "Sir William Wallace" did not talk like that. Wow it is 600 miles from my home in NC, to my Sons home on Long Island, just 6 States; a lot of real people and not one 007. It's great to be in America (in case your Geography is as poor as your History that is the good old USA) We must also remember that history itself is biased, it is written by people that want to express their thoughts and ideals. So there is My truth-your truth and the real truth is somewhere in between. by the way the name Sean (Shawn) is Irish, in Scottish it is Ian, in English it is John. Scotland Gu Bragh, England and St George and God Bless the good old USA. #1.
PS, OOPS Happy Howie; I think this is going to you also, Brave Heart was a farce. In 1996 Scotland was 10% of the United Kingdom population according to Rand McNally. Why do they not call it Queendom?
Scots are probably tired of seeing a Britain no longer Britain.
rampant illegal immigration, youth violence, binge drinking, Britain is in terrible shape socially and culturally.
I was there recently and can not believe how it has deteriorated. Britain has lost its sovereignty and culture I am afraid.
Why keep QE II as monarch? Surely there is Scottish royalty to be found. If none are in the offing, allow me to offer my services.
The Scots rejected their Roman Catholic monarch (Mary Queen of Scots), preferring instead the English monarch, who was Protestant. Also, later the Stuarts ruled both Scotland and England.
I guess Scotland can now go the way of Greece, Keep supporting the Left and see where your economy will be in 10 years! Give everyone a free ride, Tax the rich (those who are not receiving the Dole) or for a better definition the ones working for a living! Hope all goes well for those with rose colored glasses!
Don't think me a disloyal Celt ,but doesn't Mr. Connery actually have his own money-I mean he doesn't have to fight corrupt Presidents for it or anything,right.Well,I one Orville and Wilburs close blood,and Fowler Foster (so you the Bush Dynasty ,is something he stole),and even with High International and U.S.justice dept.court orders-my 15 yr daughter is held as a political hostage in California,also a Disney heir and I am living in my U.N.vehicle,Queen Elizabeth treats us better than the pres.aleast she sent her army to help us at Boeing -ok just something to think about,please don't blow our royal pictish stuff,and by the way can you take a look at this-SCOTTISH SCIENTIST DISCOVERY MALE CONTRACEPTIVE 5-25-12-I DID SEND IT TO ICC-CAN YOU SEND IT TO? PLEASE.
I am a U.N. Peacekeeper/ U.S. Government agent, I am going to immediately request consideration from the High International Court and the U.S. Justice Dept. for a ruling -RE ;Genetically engineered criminals (war Criminal made clones)and Russian Gypsy Jew Bride and sex slavery rings and other and ALREADY classified (BY UN,MILITARY POLICE, AND HIGH INTERNATIONAL COURT ATHORITY) known rapists ,terrorists as potential candidates for forced/court mandated contraceptive-I do believe if some one trys to pull the human rights issue strings ,that the favor will be in natural flesh, as the sex, bride slavery rings are involved in genocides of Indigenous peoples, Catholic Bloodlines ,Genius bloodlines and others-my 15 year old daughter is held hostage by a Russian Gypsy Jew Kidnapping ring that helped Cynthia Murphy (he isn’t related to us but tried the Howard K. Sterns thing) steal our (Wright Brothers relatives) blueprints from the U.S. National archives-so you see ,these rape, bride slavery rings are always ill intended, and do this for what they call "NEW BLOOD" forced criminal entry in to a influential family, (DNA, Sabotage) and with their inferior and unbalanced brain and body chemistry (most have psychological and personality disorders, birth defects and most have histories of “UNREAL THOUGHTS“), it also causes detriment because genius will not teach someone dangerous how to think ,so it causes a neg. retarded social , and other brain washing to the naturally bright(prodigies) children
United we stand , divided we fall. A very good saying I must say. We have many ethnic divisons in the U.S. U=United S+States. We have our issues,as you know we are deeply divided on issues. Still the same we are United. Not only do we have ethnic divisions but cultural divisions from the plains states to teh mountain states, from the ocean states. To divide may seem a good thing, but when we are attacked we become a very united country. Remember where you live UK with your Russian friends in the East and your Chinese friends furhter East and your Arab friends Southeast of you. Even though the U.S. revolted against British rule in 1776, we are still allied to Britian.