well it is hard to know, but the Buddist monks have a long and storied tradition of mental "self-control" and enduring what many cringe just thinking about...and there are those among us, normal people, who have stories of "momentary" extra-ordinary "pain obliviousness" (if thats a word) IE...walking on shaterred legs in moments of danger...

I guess the short answer is (after giving the long one)...For all of us, and to a greater extent with proper training, The minds abilities likely far outpace that of our bodies or our understanding

It couldn't have been fake since bodies were collected, so my guess is that they consumed something to numb the pain, or possibly poison so that they die a lot faster than burning would allow.

This is not a rare ability. Many have been unwillingly burned at the stake, this - in the western tradition of preventing sorcery, purging "demons", or in the case Joan of Arch - removing an, envied Heroine who had out-lived her usefulness.

What self-immolation,voluntary immolation, does is show the sheer will of the person to resist even self-preservation to demonstrate the point that resistance is "not futile", because their will is greater than life itself.As long as there are any Tibetans, anywhere, China must know that this is not over, will never be over - Tibet and Tibetans will haunt China's immoral nightmarish expansion... forever.

It was a regular occurrence in the later stages of the Vietnam war - our nation was so intent on saving Vietnam from communism, that our leadership ignored the excesses of our Puppet installed, propped up Allies.

Tibet is not, never was a member of Greater China. Any claims which China has claimed as evidence of Dominion over Tibet exist only in the addled patted Han Chinese fantasies.

Tibetans have always remained aloof from outside interference, outside entanglement. They have repeatedly shown a propensity to just be left alone. They never sought coalitions, allies, friendships nor conflicts with outside nations - except as necessary to be allowed to maintain their sovereignty.

Rather than improving the lives of the native Tibetan - by every measure so far demonstrated, China has taken more,much more than they provided toward bettering the lives of Tibetans or respecting Tibetan culture and traditions. Tibetans are being treated much like the American Plains Indian of our western expansion. In this case its about water resources.

We are sacrificing Tibet for peace- that, historically, has never proved to a good nor lasting trade.

The nuns and monks sat quietly when the Chinese soldiers drove nails into their heads. The Dalai Lama who is being blamed for the bon-fires has never recriminated against them, publically or privately. Now there is a RELIGION.

Just like the Syrian heirarchy, the chinese cannot see the beam in their eyes.

This has to be the most unintelligible post I've seen in some time. Congratulations.

I see the quality of your crystal meth is quite low today. Perhaps you should seek out a new dealer. Or do you make your own?

Tibet was a serfdom before the Communists came along, so it's impossible to tell what would happen if the Chinese government gave up that piece of land. All we know for sure is that life in Tibet improved significantly since 1950, though it's again impossible to say whether it could have improved more if the Communists didn't take over.

What do you consider to be improvement? Civilization is imposed on Native peoples and claims made that their lives have been improved. Eskimos, Indians of North, Central and South America have been invaded, conquer and had their lives improved.

None of them seem to have retained rights to their lands, their women have been turned into prostitutes, their religions have been corrupted, destroyed or co-opted to enforce their position as the lower rung of the which enslaved them. OK, some education, a few computers and medical care - have negated a rash of simple diseases extended the lives of a few who were exposed - usually to diseases "brought in by the conquering people".

However, survival of the weak, ill and deformed is not always the best solution for the overall health of the culture. Its only an improvement, if the people want to become indoctrinated into the culture which is oppressing them. Forced removal is unfair, reservations don't work - reeducation, is cultural genocide.

Leave them alone. If they choose to leave their, pastoral, hunter/gatherer, planting, hunting lives it one thing -forcing them to give up their homes so you can fit in more of your own unabated populations explosion is never justifiable.

Providing "trinkets and shiny baubles" is not a good reason for changing their rights to self determine destiny.

Hippocratic Oath: states - first, do no harm.

That is likely true Game, however remember that it was a self-immolation that sparked off the Arab Spring. This is as much to send a message to the Government as it is to send a message to the people of Tibet and China. Whether it works to stir up enough support to change China's form of Government is yet to be seen but historically these have yet to do so. It would take a true Coup to make China's government change hands from the securely Communist to something else.

The chinese never have incorporated either rule of law or government accoutablity from day one.

Why start Now?

Tibet was a serfdom before the Communists came along, so it's impossible to tell what would happen if the Chinese government gave up that piece of land. All we know for sure is that life in Tibet improved significantly since 1950, though it's again impossible to say whether it could have improved more if the Communists didn't take over

If its only result which matter, why did we intervene in WWII? Its been said that despite the brutality, killings, lack of freedoms and aggression against it neighbors... The Fascists and NAZI weren't all that bad, right? ... in the rather casual and cavalier manner of Mediterranean Europe - Italy under Mussolini became a shining example of organization - he got the trains to run on time! That was a Herculean feat.

Tut tut to all the other stuff,... none of it was important? One mans dream, imposed on everyone else - has a way becoming an Nightmare.

Self-Immolation's make the International Media pay attention...

One man's self-immolation brought Tunisia's government tumbling down...

Many people remember the televised self-immolation of the Vietnamese Monk, during the US occupation. Do you remember the invasions of Vietnam by China, following this???

While the normal actions of ONE will make little CHANGE unless they are in a position of authority. The Thai King and his sponsored programs that have eradicated Opium growth and lowered the HIV rates in Thailand...

A little callous, but you do have a point. Setting yourself on fire in the name of religion isn't very sensible.

But it's one that's been used for centuries.

It's "stupid" to you, but for other cultures it is a valid form of protest. Don't judge them too harshly. You don't have to be in the military to die for what you believe in.

People used to think the Sun went around the Earth for thousands of years. Doesn't make them right.

... People used to think the Sun went around the Earth for thousands of years. Doesn't make them right...

Similiarly, When china claims its aggression, invasion and occupation of sovereign neighbor is masqueraded under the guise of reclaiming a former province. No matter how convenient it is to accept that lie, for Peace! Even if it were true, these claims fail to address the implied fact that it was granted or achieved independence for a reason.

Examples: We were a Colony of Britain, Australia was a colony of Britain, India was a colony of Britain, The Falkens are being Claimed as Territoryof Argentina... in none of those cases is there a clamor, from the people living their now or at the time they broke from the main country. Claiming or reclaiming a sovereign country was agreed to by all signatory of United Nations after WWII, That set all boundaries as they stood after the war, back to their borders as they were prior to the war. Which meant Germany had to relinquish all its claims. The Soviets were not supposed to keep the countries they "Liberated", Japan was supposed to give up its Empire and Taiwan, Singapore, Vietnam - all Indonesia were looked upon as a sovereign nation - in perpetuity .... unless they willingly rejoined a union with another country.

They left the "Hive" for a reason, and were rewarded with the risk and benefits of Independence.

Its not right to attempt to reclaim a colony or former province - hundreds of years later, because you are unhappy with the treaty that gave them freedom.

Wasn't that Hitlers claim, the Poland was "once" a part of Germany, Then Austria - it too was "once" a part of Greater Germany?

Europe, left much of Africa with un-natural borders - Countries which had been create under Homogeneous tribal affiliations, had been reformed to allow control of natural resources by the colonialist or specifically formed to include rival tribe - to prevent a united rebellion, since the Colonialist would be the only governing force to keep the country together (similar to What Saddam Hussein did in Iraq). Matter of record, that explains why the British were able to keep and rule over their large colonies.

Just how far back are you allowed to go to claim dominion over a "Rogue Province"?

Desire to rule ... Doesn't make it right if the people resist.

It's a message meant for another party- the one that assimilated Tibet in 1951 by force. Self-immolation is called terrorism by the Chinese government because it's aggressive martyrdom with the goal of destabilization of rule. Regardless, any government who calls those willing to die to make a point about the quality of life under its rulership terrorists has no business being in charge. Call it what it is- the ultimate action of protest. It's simplest level of meaning: "I can't live in the world you've created- and I'm leaving it spectacularly to make a statement against your policies."

Tibet contends that China stole their country- and not for the first time, by the way (see: "Qing protectorate"). But Tibet's current objections to Chinese rule revolves around one particular element of their current political philosophy, a well established goal of communism: the elimination of religion as "the opiate of the masses". Tibet has been solidly under religious rule for about a millennium at this point, and likes it that way- despite the fact that slavery, serfdom and huge estates owned by rich local despots have often been part of that equation. There is no perfect government, human nature being what it is.

Change is not a likely consequence of ritual suicide. Even so, I believe that Patton had it right:

"Wars may be fought with weapons, but they are won by men. It is the spirit of the men who follow and of the man who leads that gains the victory."

Tibet is far too small to effectively oppose China militarily. But political destabilization? That's something with which the weak can always effectively attack the strong- hence the efforts of Socialist China to deride sacrifice by describing it as terrorism. There are already fault lines appearing in the wall of socialist repression- and actions like these make it weaker.

Thanks for the explanation. I've heard of these burnings before but never understood them. I agree that it won't change anything, I wish these Tibetans would find a more effective way of protest that won't leave them dead.

Until the World is willing to stand against the expansion of the Han Chinese into these countries...

NOTHING will change...

Tibet contains; 1/3 of China's coal reserves, deposits of 'rare earths', and the hydro power/control of the sediment into the Yellow River...

China's future depends of access & control of these...

For further reading enjoyment research China's border disputes and/or resource explotation in:

Africa, Brazil, Cambodia, Canada, Cuba, Indonesia, India, Japan, Laos, Myanmar, Nepal, Panama, Philippines, South Korea, Taiwan, USA, Venezuela, etc, etc...

Tibet was indeed independent once--and then they got conquered by Genghis Khan and the Mongols, who also established themselves as the rulers of China. Tibet's been technically part of China ever since, though the degree of autonomy varied considerably, peaking in the Ming dynasty (i.e. after the Mongols left but before the Manchus came along).

I see Cliff Klavon from Cheers has logged on, please stop. I got A's in history, stay on topic.........

@ Seven2Seven:
There's a reason America is falling behind in technology, in research- hell, in any venue you care to name.

It's people like you who attack anyone who seems to have a clue. Knowledge is strength- deriding it from a platform of stylishly opinionated, trollish ignorance is dangerous at best- and long term, it's suicidal.

People who engage in the hard work that goes into building an informed opinion deserve respect- and writers who script idiocy like "Cheers" have done our culture a huge disservice by attacking knowledge as somehow "uncool"- especially when that meme is echoed by someone else.

Ferous Oxide....>Yawn......

SPARTAN-501,

In 1252-53 Qoridai invaded Tibet, reaching as far as Damxung. The Central Tibetian monasteries submitted to the Mongols. Mongke divided between his relatives as their appanagesin accordance with Great Jasagof Genghis Khan. Many Mongol aristocrats including Khagan himself seem to have sought blessings of prominent Tibetan lamas. Möngke Khan patronized Karma Baqshi (1204–83) of the Karma-pa suborder and the ’Bri-gung Monastery, while Hulegu, khan of the Mongols in the Middle East, sent lavish gifts to both ’Bri-gung and the Phag-mo-gru-pa suborder’s gDan-sa-thel monastery. Later William Rubruck report that he saw Chinese, Tibetan, and Indian Buddhist monks at the capital city, Karakourm, of the Mongol Empire.

Tibet was incorporated into the Mongol Empire under Mongolian administrative rule,^[27] but the region was granted with a degree of political autonomy. Kublai Khan would later include Tibet into his Yuan Dynasty, and the region remained administratively separate from the conquered provinces of Song Dynasty China.

According to the Tibetan traditional view, the khan and the lama established "priest-patron" relations. The Mongols granted the Sakya lama a degree political authority, but retained control over the administration and military of the region.^[29] This meant administrative management and military assistance from the khan and assistance from the lama in spiritual issues...

Efforts were made to rule both territories while preserving Mongol identity, Kublai Khan prohibited Mongols from marrying Chinese, but left both the Chinese and Tibetan legal and administrative systems intact.^[30] Though most government institutions established by Kublai Khan in his court resembled the ones in earlier Chinese dynasties,^[31] Tibet never adopted the imperial examinations or Neo-Confucian policies.

Towards the end of the Yuan Dynasty, until the mid-14th century. Tibet regained its independence from the Mongols with the decline of the Yuan. This made Tibet a SEPARATE country, never a part of the Mongols China...

Tibet is free and Tibetans are living happily with their standard of iving improved tremendously since their liberation from serfdom.

Those monks that seek self immolation were no difference to suicide bombers merely to seek martyrdom.

... Those monks that seek self immolation were no difference to suicide bombers merely to seek martyrdom...

Suicide bombers?

How are they harming the Chinese occupation, Native Tibetans - innocent bystanders? You might as well condemn Filipinos, Mexicans and others who subject themselves to scourging, or other demonstrations of their faith. There are groups who have annually had nails driven into hands, feet while on a cross every Easter.

There are various sects of Indian mystic who allow themselves to be impaled by needles, skewered multiple times as demonstrations of their faith,. fire walkers-etc.

You are obviously stating an erroneous view... directly accountable to the wishes of Chinese authorities. No one believes any of your remarks. You are attempting to hide your shame, behind self centered platitudes - false concern for saving "Face" in an effort to dignify your crimes against a subjegated people.

The Brits didn't see the efficacy Of Gandhi's non-violent protests in India either. Britain at the time was a world power - they had conquered both China and India... two of the largest, most populous countries in the world. In the case of India they had shaped the destiny of country for hundreds of years. Fought great wars and were victorious in all the major uprisings and mutinies against British rule.

Yet, the peaceful protest of Gandhi, won out where killings, battles, armies had been defeated - without firing a shot.

Essentially, what Gandhi saw was the vulnerable underbelly of British rule. That you can only hold a people captive, if they allow you to do it. He got Indians, in their millions to stop cooperating in their own enslavement. Peaceful, non- cooperation won out against bullets, guns and armies. Brits got tired of killing people who would not, could not be provoked to fight.

Henrich von Dorf,

At least they are not on the Internet spewing disinformation...

That is because the Chinese have enlightened them, by removing their access to the Internet...

China has also removed involvement by outside forces, by restricting Visas, travel outside of the Tibet area (by Tibetans) and travel into Tibet by the foreign Media...

These are the FREEDOMS that China has brought to Tibet and now starting in Nepal...