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Subscribe to RSSThe United States and other nations expelled Syrian Charge d'Affaires Zuheir Jabbour. After 14 months of violence, the country is approaching an all-out civil war. NBC's Richard Engel reports.
Updated at 1:05 p.m. ET: The United States and a string of other nations expelled Syrian diplomats Tuesday, in response to a United Nations announcement that most of the 108 victims of violence near the Syrian town of Houla had been executed.
The State Department said it had decided to expel Charge d'Affaires Zuheir Jabbour from the U.S., an action mirrored by Australia, Canada, Spain, the United Kingdom, Italy, France and Germany. The Syrian ambassador had previously been recalled, leaving the charge d’affaires the highest ranking official in Washington, D.C.
Images of bloodied, young bodies laid out in a shallow grave after Friday's onslaught triggered shock around the world and underlined the failure of a six-week-old U.N. cease-fire plan to stop the violence.
The U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights earlier said its monitors found that fewer than 20 of the victims died from artillery fire. It was first thought the majority of the deaths were caused by artillery fire.
Syrian authorities had blamed "terrorists" for the massacre, which is one of the worst carnages in the 14-month-old uprising against Syrian President Bashar al-Assad that has cost about 10,000 lives.
Clinton condemns Syria massacre: Assad's 'rule by murder' must end
The United States rejected Syria's claims that terrorists were responsible for the massacre.
"We hold the Syrian government responsible for this slaughter of innocent lives," a spokesman for State Department told NBC News in a statement. "We encourage all countries to condemn the actions of the Assad regime through similar action."
The U.S. did not cut off relations with Syria altogether, and did not oppose "many civil service members of the Syrian government who are working to improve their country," the statement added.
"Our view is that these are civil servants; these are technical staff; these are the same people who, if and when -- and there will come a when -- the Assad regime goes and we're into a transition that they will have to restart the relationship," Victoria Nuland, spokesperson for the State Department, said.
"We are not opposed to the low- and mid-level technical staff remaining.”
A Syrian governmental crackdown is escalating prompting UN peace broker Kofi Annan to speak out and longtime Syrian ally Russia to criticize the regime. NBC's Richard Engel reports.
'Summarily executed'
Rupert Colville, spokesman for the UNHCR, told journalists in Geneva that initial investigations suggest fewer than 20 of the victims in the village of Taldou, near Houla, were killed by artillery or tank fire.
"Most of the rest of the victims in Taldou," he told the BBC, "were summarily executed in two separate incidents."
Most of the victims were shot at close range. "At this point it looks like entire families were shot in their houses," Colville was quoted as saying by The Telegraph.
He said the conclusions of the U.N. monitors are corroborated by other sources, and that witnesses blamed pro-government militias for the attacks.
The findings came as UN-Arab League envoy Kofi Annan was meeting Assad in Damascus on Tuesday.
UN Security Council condemns Syria massacre that left more than 100 dead
The U.N. Security Council on Sunday unanimously condemned the Syrian government for heavy-weapons attacks on Houla.
"The Security Council condemned in the strongest possible terms the killings, confirmed by United Nations observers, of dozens of men, women and children and the wounding of hundreds more in the village of (Houla), near Homs, in attacks that involved a series of government artillery and tank shellings on a residential neighborhood," a non-binding statement said.
U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton demanded that those who carried out the killings be held accountable.
"The United States will work with the international community to intensify our pressure on Assad and his cronies, whose rule by murder and fear must come to an end," she said.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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Thank Allah I live in America.
Unless, of course, you're an American Indian.
I'm wondering if Clinton got her information from a "Trusted Source" or did it come from the Rebels (Activist) that started this Syrian Civil War. It probably came from the Terrorist supported Rebels. Sounds like there are Terrorist Groups within the Rebels that are fighting for the Leadership of the Rebels. Again, the U.S. should stay out of the Syrian Civil War least we want a confrontation with Russia, China and Hamas and related groups from Lebanon. It appears the bodies came from other areas of Syria and were "dumped" in the current location. As long as the Rebels use "Human Shields" and attack from residential areas, there will be death among the "Human Shields” and residents of those areas. The U.S. should have learned from Libya and Egypt where Islamic Terrorist are taking control of thoose countries.
Cynic-537088
The indians didn't protect their borders. Maybe we could learn from history.
F___— RUSSIA and CHINA if they stand with evil. There are people who aren't scared or tired to speak up for the innocent.
We shouldn't just stay out and JUST IGNORE EVERYTHING, we should keep our eyes open, and punish those from the government who are killing the civilians.
These government troops personally came in a murdered families, not from afar, but point blank.
You are a fool if you believe the Syrian government isn't responsible for these murders.
The families now in Syria aren't running from the rebels, they are running from the government troops, who lie through their teeth that there isn't anything going on.
Assad's father did the exact same thing 30 years ago to keep power then. The world did nothing.
30 years from now, the Assad's will still rule Syria.
Hello folks, when will we discard our Imperialistic mindset? This is just another ploy by the U.S. and the U.N. to perpetrate the war mongering and demonizing as the U.S. is trying to drum up more support for another war. We’ve caused enough trouble around the world. If you can't see that we are the instigators in most of the world's wars and displacement of millions of people who are fleeing our aggression, than you are not paying attention. If you don’t think we have been in Syria covertly arming the rebels you are in denial and forgetting about Libya. We need to stay out of other country’s civil disputes. I hope we aren’t going to go against the United Nations vote earlier this year and unilaterally go into Syria under the pretext that we need to stop the violence like we did in Libya. General Wesley Clark has stated that a Syria invasion has been pre-planned for quite awhile.
General Wesley Clark: "America will take out 7 countries in 5 years"
According to Former NATO supreme allied commander, former presidential candidate and 4 star US General Wesley Clark that they had received a memo that America is going to take out 7 countries in the Middle East starting with Iraq, Libya, Syria Lebanon Sudan, Somalia, and finally Iran. It is amazing how these things that were planned years ago and even though it is taking longer than originally planned, are being achieved in front of our eyes.
Why is it other countries feel like they have to defend their territory? Could it be that they know we have no problem invading their sovereignty just as we have done to countless other countries. Since World War II, 90% of the casualties of war are unarmed civilians. 1/3 of them children. Our victims have done nothing to us. From Palestine to Afghanistan to Iraq to Somalia to wherever our next target may be, their murders are not collateral damage, they are the nature of modern warfare. They don't hate us because of our freedoms. They hate us because every day we are funding and committing crimes against humanity. The so-called "war on terror" is a cover for our military aggression to gain control of the resources of western Asia.
This is sending the poor of this country to kill the poor of those Muslim countries. This is trading blood for oil. This is genocide, and to most of the world, we are the terrorists. In these times, remaining silent on our responsibility to the world and its future is criminal. And in light of our complicity in the supreme crimes against humanity in Iraq and Afghanistan, and ongoing violations of the U.N. Charter in International Law, how dare any American criticize the actions of legitimate resistance to illegal occupation.
We are going into Syria for a couple of reasons (yes we are in Syria with our Drones at a minimum), one, we are trying to dislodge Russia from there because they have a foothold in the Middle East via two military bases in Latakia and Tartus in Syria. Two, Syria is a strong ally of Iran. If we invade Syria we take out a strong ally and maybe incite Iran to assist giving the U.S. the reason they are looking for to attack Iran. The ultimate goal is to surround, weaken and to invade Iran. The petro dollar is at stake as other countries are switching to other forms of currency in buying Iran’s oil.
Since the Russian war in 1828, Iran has never attacked another country. We on the other hand have attacked to name a few:
Libya, Iran, Nicaragua, Haiti, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Angola, Mozambique, Honduras, Chile, Congo, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon, Somalia, Angola, Columbia, Peru, Panama, Yemen, Pakistan, Grenada, Mexico, etc..
Wake up people we are being herded down the Military Industrial Complex gauntlet again to another false war to enrich the greedy Corporations and distract the American people. Did we not learn anything from the Iraq war where we have killed well over 1 million Iraqi people, lost thousands of American lives and God knows how many hundreds of billions of dollars?
Who do you support, humanity or the greedy elite?
Many of our soldiers don't fight for America, they fight for their lives and their buddies beside them, because we put them in a war zone. They're not defending our freedoms, they're laying the foundation for permanent military bases to defend the freedoms of Exxon Mobil and British Petroleum.
Face it we're Imperialists pure and simple. The elite look down on all of us as expendable chattel.
"Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy" Henry Kissinger
I’m not asking you to hate war, but to love peace? War, what is it good for, absolutely nothing!
I totally agree with Paul.
This continued massacre of innocent civilians must stop...The world cannot stand by and do nothing.
We...the people...must force China and Russia to stop their political games
We...the people... standing together as one... must stop China and Russia by confronting them economically...
BOYCOTT China and Russia...
BOYCOTT all their products!!!
Fight back with economic force...Join AAALIANCE@yahoo.com
Just a reminder:
Look back at the history of the Assad family legacy in Syria... remember what the father...Hafez AlAssad.. did in Hama and other cities during his reign of terror!!! Well...now we can see the pattern that seems to run through the cold blooded veins of this family. Check out the history of president Assad's brother who controls the army and police!!!
Cynic, Unless, of course, you're an American Indian.
I think the indians have it made!! They don't have to pay property tax, sales tax, they are there own nation, and the government give them millions if not billions of $$$$$$ even when we are broke. Talk about a bail out of all bail outs
JoeB, I agree with your observation, totally. No question about it, the loose opositions have been shooting videos of old corpses, or stage killing of children and women and filming their bodies for propaganda purposes all along.
They even mounted suicide bombings in Damacus recently targeting the suspected headquarters of pro-government 'shabbiha' militias and still accused Assad's people to be behind the blasts.
The suicide bombings seemed to suggest that it had become an open season in Syria.
The recent bombings seemed like the works of Iraqi Sunnis or Alqaeda, which had been reported to be enterring Syria through its border with Iraq in large numbers to join the battles against Assad. And as more and more Islamic fighters or jihadists from all over the Middle East joined the fray, more tactics and brutalities are adopted, to the detriment of innocent Syrian women and children. They have become the favorite human shields or staged video shooting subjects for the oppositions to win the psychological or shooting wars with the government.
You are right to wonder whether Hillary Clinton got the information of creditable source or from Syrian activists as usual. It's pointless to fault secretary of state Hillary Clinton though for saying or doing what she did; she had no choice. Her orders were to hasten the downfall of Assad. At the same time, I am not sure if she personally never felt any guilt or remorse for lying to the world or against President Assad.
As a a human being, and especially as a mother and a lady, I know she must be troubled by the injustices against a head of state who, while remains technically at war with Israel, didn't add to the Jewish state's sleepless nights. Personally, I understand Hillary Clinton's dilemas. I bear no illwill against her. In fact, I think we should leave her alone (to do her job, though what she had been doing seemed repugnant).
All citizens of Earth have a right and duty to respond to atrocities committed by other citizens of Earth.
TrustVerify- Thank you for well thought and very accurate assessment of the Syrian condition. Unfortunately Americans only believe what they are hand fed by the media.
No doubt we will soon be even more involved in the demise of the Syrian government. And like every other fall of governments we have orchestrated lately the outcome will be chaos, violence and further destabilization of the Middle East as a whole. Why people can't figure this out is beyond me.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo
SyriaInTurmoil,
The story says repeatedly this information came from the independent UN observers on the ground in Syria. If you are correct in saying:
This would mean the UN is complicit in a lie to deceive the world into taking down Assad, and will stop at nothing to achieve its goal.
But one has to ask, if this is all a lie, what does it gain the world to have this ruler taken out? What would the UN gain by fabricating and being co-conspirators in this fraud?
Thank you, TrustVerify, for taking the time to write such an excellent and informative post.
Unfortunately, too many Americans gullibly accept whatever their government and/or the military-industrial controlled mainstream media tell them, be it the Tonkin Gulf lie, the Kuwaiti-babies-snatched-from-incubators lie, the Iraq WMD lie, the Jessica Lynch lie, the Pat Tillman lie (and probably the 9/11 lie - half of the 9/11 investigators, citing lying and non-cooperation by Bush administration officials, have called their own report a cover-up by that administration, with several calling for a new, independent investigation).
opp45646456 - Try BEING an Indian for a few days. THEN let's hear you toot your horn.
We came here unbidden, attacked them with superior weapons and firepower, took EVERYTHING they had, killed their food supply off, and did just about every atrocious thing imaginable to them. I have NO problem with some payback, even at this late date. But I see that you do. Greedy fck.
Yeah, the Indians have it made. That's why they're some of the most poverty stricken people in the US. Sure, some of them are doing ok with casinos, but that's the very small minority. Same as always, you don't know crap, but have it coming out of your mouth none the less. How about the genocidist Andrew Jackson, still gracing the front of the $20 bill?
Can't we learn from Egypt?
bagdadjoe get over it.
Derail re: the American Indian. Point taken.
Back to the ARTICLE, Syria is a question that deserves solving. Obviously it'd be pretty foolhardy to go sending some invasion force, and nobody is even thinking about that. There are other things that would work. But you basically have to find a way to get Russia and China so p.o.'d about Syria that something material is done.
Right now, good luck with that. To China it is more important that you execute babies than mess with a sovereign nation. Probably because that's what they would prefer people do to them...leave them alone on their civil rights record (one of the worst in the world, for all the vapor breathers who think they have it so bad in the US, including American Indians). Russia holds onto the Syrian regime symbolically as much as strategically. And you can see they are no stranger to massacres, if Chechnya is too far back in someone's memory to stand out.
Let's not forget Syria's marriage to another tyranny....Iran. Run by clerics more insane than almost any other country in the Middle East, Iran has to front the weapons to Assad because between Syria, Hezbollah and Hamas, its part of their terrorist alliance.
The US and Europe probably won't do anything military. Isreal probably won't either, if anything, saving it for Iran itself. You can only lean on Russia and China economically or otherwise...well, the US isn't going to do that with China. Who knows if anybody will do it with Russia. That's probably the only slim recourse...is that Russia is threatened (real, not paper) enough with broken business deals to Europe, that they stop backing the Syrian government. They'll still need to be left with a way to save face. China would probably become neutral at that point as long as its own interests would find a way to be solved. It isn't happening before the next slaughter, though, that's for sure.
I do not buy that this was done by Syrian troops, it would not make any sense. I believe that these summary executions were carried out by the so called rebels as a way to stir up international outrage against the Assad regime. The problem is that the West and these UN observers are so hell bent on seeing Assad removed that they will believe anything the rebels tell them without question and help spread the lies. These so called rebels are not rebels at all, they are simply a different Muslim sect who want control for themselves and are willing to do anything to get it. The last thing on these "rebels" mind is establishing a peaceful democracy in Syria. If they succeed in gaining control they will establish an Islamic Republic where the only acceptable religion is the state approved version of Islam and anyone who does not follow it will be mercilessly persecuted. These are not a bunch of freedom loving people, they are simply people who want to control things and have things done their way. Not only are they not better than Assad they are far worse. Assad for the most part is a secularist. Under Assad the people of Syria have been pretty much free to worship as they see fit. This does not sit well with these "rebels." These "rebels" feel that their version of Islam is the only true version and will do whatever thy have to in order to gain control of the country so that they can force everyone to follow their beliefs. They are even willing to use children as human shields for their attacks so that when Assad's forces strike back they can stir up people against Assad by pointing to these child casualties. In addition, many of those stirring up this rebellion are not even Syrians, they are actually outside instigators from other countries trying to spread their version of Islam. The problem is that the Obama administration and the rest of the West appear to be too stupid or naive to recognize that this is hat is going on. They did not bother to find out who the "rebels" were in Egypt or Libya either and now both of those counties have gone from being under the rule of what were by Arab standards relatively benign secular dictators into the hand of Islamic fanatics. Now the Obama administration and the rest of the West appears poised to make the same mistake in Syria. I am not saying that Assad should necessarily remain in power, but instead of supporting these "rebels" they should be working with Assad to keep these outside instigators out of Syria and to transfer power to someone who supports continuing the generally secular nature of the current government. Supporting these "rebels" in Syria will lead to the same thing we are seeing in Egypt and Libya, a take over by Islamic fanatics and a huge setback instead of an advancement of human rights in the country. If you doubt this, just look at what is happening to the rights of women and religious minorities in Egypt right now.
The Security Council condemned in the strongest possible terms - what a friggin' joke. What comes after "strongest possible terms?" The "really strongest possible terms?" The United Nations should be abolished or at least pulled of the United States funding tit. 
QUESTION... If the Syrian army had this city surrounded and the Syrian Rebels were in control of the city..Who performed the executions....?? something does not sound right....
The part I don't understand is how Russia can stop anything from happening via the UN. Does the UN not operate on a majority vote?
Seriously, putin is reduced to riding a horse shirtless to show his "strength". I'm sorry, that image just keeps cracking me up.
Thank Allah? Is that a joke?
Assad is using Iranian Guard troops to do the dirty work. Diplomatic "pressure" isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Russia is not on board with the western community on this. The UN is an expensive consultant. The US is following, not leading.
Thank God we have guns in our closets in this country.
AtlasWillShrug
Cynic-537088
The indians didn't protect their borders. Maybe we could learn from history.
I nominate this post for "Post of the Day"...
I wonder if Assad would have ever thought to give the U.S. a big "F-U, buddy" if Nancy Pelosi hadn't gone to meet with him against the public policies of GWB? Seems to me that the liberal left didn't really care what monster they were unleashing as long as they got to make GWB look bad.
History will hold liberals responsible for standing by and allowing this to happen...just like we now revile those who stood by and watched as Hitler slaughtered jews, homosexuals, gypsies, etc unabated.
The "it's not my problem" mentality is one of mankind's most glaring flaws...
Surprised a comment about God hasn't been collapsed. Oh, wait, it's Allah. Never mind. GOD IS GREAT! PRAISE TO ALLAH!
You just know the 'diplomat' is pis — ed. Party time is over for him, he has to go back to that sand pile he calls a country.
The Middle Eastern Countries should take care of their own in a situation such as the one in Syria.
Standing by, watching the Slaughter. It is their responsibility. No value for anyone's human life, not their own families, either. The KORAN is a great teacher of murder. "My Brother's Keeper". All they understand is fighting each other, and death to other Tribes other than their own. This is a Normal Day in life for the Islamists..
It could be a pool of many Terrorist groups fighting to retain Power to take over the 2nd Hitler, Assad.
I thought they were all in it together when one country comes in harms way.
COWARDS---Worthless, Barbarians.
So, how much is this going to cost us now. Let them get their aid from their friends we have enough need for the money at home. We've a lready flushed billions down assorted toilets no more sending money to countries who hate us.
So, why is the Syrian Arab Republic still a member State of the United Nations National Security Council ?
I can see syria shutting down the us embassy in retaliation, assumptions is always the base of the u.s. conclusions or everyone has to do what the u.s. see's appropriate not what you think approriate. However anyone ask where these rebels were getting their weapons? After all the bs from the u.s. govt from lying, stealing and out right stupidity does this mean if i get my own rebel group together and attack D.C. its acceptable? thats hillarious clintons message that they have every right to kill, attack and take ownership of any city or place they like. By the way there is 4 news agency on the ground there that have been reporting a different story.
Indians dont pay taxes? AND get a check directly to them in the mail? AND have it made? :-/ I AM native american, and if you really think that stay in your loony toons and disney history world while big people talk.
This country needs to quit getting involved in others civil wars. Apparently our elected representatives learned nothing from Nam.
watch and learn on You Tube...... Russia and the gathering of the nations to ARMAGEDDON
It's nothing short of hilarious how you talk about how gullible Americans are out of one side of your mouth, but freely admit to believing the most ridiculous conspiracy theory ever devised by tin foil hat wearing wackos out of the other side. You could not possibly define irony any better. It's almost as though you believe exactly opposite of what you're told, simply because of who's telling it to you.
Bad news, champ: liars do tell the truth sometimes.
Aren't these the same countries that waged war against Iraq - with the honorable exception of France of course.
I honestly had figured we had already expelled the diplomat. These are not the first atrocities perfomed by the Syrian government.
PJ-1795048 - Australia, Canada, Spain, the United Kingdom, Italy, France, and Germany
Aren't these the same countries that waged war against Iraq - with the honorable exception of France of course.
Which Iraq war are you referring too? Canada, Germany and France were not a part of the Iraq War Coalition 2003-2011, only Afghanistan in response to 9/11.
I am Syrian and still living in Syria, I don't want to lie to you or go sell you some ready-made ideas and positions, your media authorities had banned the cable channel that transmits the government supporters' point of view, why is that? aren't you Americans the God fathers of freedom and democracy? is that freedom of speech?!, and you can easily locate the Islamist misleading channels calling their sects to kill and rape Christians and other minorities in the region?!
I just want the voice of the government supporters majority in Syria to reach to you and then you can use sound thought to differentiate between true and false news, I want your government to treat you like human beings who are capable of judging the situation with free and independent minds.
And please let me use this opportunity to tell you some facts about our Syria:
1- we have free health care and education til we reach higher education stages, I am a master's student and I pay 2500 S.P per year = 50$, our governmental hospitals treat cancer patients for free, nevertheless we have an occupied land by Israel since 1967 setback.
2- Our government allows as many as political parties to get licenced and operate actively in a democratic manner as long as they do not depend on a religious, sect, or any other discrimination that is not in concordance with global standards of secular regimes.
3- we have a strong and well equipped national military that is capable of defend us from any invasion or civil war.
I do not want to write for ever, just be patient and rational enough to observe the Islamist swamp that is trying to absorb all culture and development of our Syria (the cradle of civilization) and your government is now explicitly supporting this Islamist revolution with coordination with the world's number one in supporting Islamist terrorism (Saudi Arabia) just to destroy us so Israel can occupy what is remaining from out Syria.
Just a couple of things. First, the specific.
AtlasWillShrug -
You know, it's kind of hard to protect your borders when 90% of your entire population has been wiped out with disease, mostly plague. A lot of the 'conquering heroes fighting red savages' bull@!$%# you see on TV is just that, bull@!$%#. People settling in the forests and grasslands found them rather tamed already, just uninhabited. They marveled at it, and thought it was some god's hand revealing a promised land, when it was really just death and destruction of an indigenous people. As usual.
Also, see Indians vs. Vikings. You go around telling me that the Europeans who came to America after Columbus were more vicious and hardier and more prone to warfare than Vikings, and I'll hit you over the head with a clue-by-four. Seriously, they chased off the Vikings. For the technology of the time, you don't get more ferocious than that. If they had the numbers left after being riddled with disease, they would have easily slaughtered any settlers and done away with most armies that could be fielded from Europe at the time. But they didn't have those numbers. So don't get all high and mighty like you know the answers and can put them into a simple little soundbyte.
P.S. - Ayn Rand was a hack.
Now, more generally, I see a whole lot of people on here speculating (yes, you're just @!$%#ing guessing) that the attacks were actually the work of rebels trying to drum up international support. I just HAVE to ask: where's the @!$%#ing evidence? It's probable to the point of likely that Assad would authorize (or at least not stop or investigate) mass killings, in fitting with the behaviors of other dictators throughout time. It's likely that he does so to keep in power. Now, we see dead bodies turning up everywhere, mass executions, mass graves. Yet you come whining on here with your little conspiracy theories. Let me ask, where's the evidence? For your claim, you have to cite evidence, not some stupid little phrase you thought was clever on the internet. You need to back your assertions, or you're just making assumptions.
In other words, please put up or shut the @!$%# up.
@SMDragons - I had already mentioned France as an exception. But you are right about Canada and Germany too.
Well the the Russians have spoken and it was against Assaid.
I wonder how many people commenting on here could point Syria out on a map.
I wonder how many people commenting on here understand the history of the country and its leadership beyond what they read, or scanned briefly, in this article.
I say this because I have studied the region extensively, and I am not sure what the best policy is-yet so many people on here make it sound so simple.
I applaud the current adminstration for not rushing to action. As we saw with Lybia, it is possible to make a significant impact without invading a country where we are not welcomed (as Iraq) or the loss of American lives. However, Syria's relationships with other countries may make this a challenge.
However, if innocent lives really are being lost and there is something positive we can do about it without making the situation worse and with the support of the international community (please note that there are several qualifiers in that statement) we should do so.
Muslims killing muslims!!! Keep up the good work so we don't have to. Just another back water, religious crazy country.
Hosfac
Those who know the least about 9/11 seem to be the ones who refer to tin foil hats. Have you any idea of why serial liar Bush would exert such strenuous efforts to prevent ANY investigation of 9/11? Or why, when forced by extreme pressure from the victims' families to have one, permitted only a severely limited one with large restrictions on what could be investigated (such as the support network for the alleged hijackers)? Or why would Bush refuse to testify under oath to the 9/11 investigators, even in private? Or why would Bush classify large amounts of materials to keep if from investigators? To most people (except the gullible who yap about tin foil hats) such behavior would indicate guilty knowledge.
Add all that to the fact that the FBI says that it has NO concrete evidence connecting bin Laden to 9/11 and the fact that half the 9/11 investigators, referring to a pattern of lying and non-cooperation by Bush administration officials, have called their own report a "cover-up," by that administration, with several calling for a new, independent investigation. Would you call the FBI and the doubting 9/11 investigators "tin foil hatters" also?
@TrustVerify: "Iran has not attacked another country." Only via proxies in ....
- Lebanon
- Israel
- Iraq
- Afghanistan
- Saudi Arabia
Hello Janstince, and people with your mind set keep asking "who is John Galt"?
You mean we hadn't thrown his raghead ass outta here sooner....I know, I know...
Hello Truthseeker, anyone who thinks for themselves knows exactly what happened on that day. Unfortunately the sheeple abide by the elites playbook of ostracizing those that dare to use their own brain in formulating responses to obvious facts.
Their mantra is: "Who are you going to believe, me, or your lying eyes"?
Hey Hosfac,
News flash: Osama was seen by a spy drone having lunch with Elvis in a cave west of Kabul. Not just any cave, but the cave where he orchestrated the 9-11 attacks with sophisticated can and string communication technology and a blackboard with chalk. The plans scribbled on the blackboard had details on how to penetrate the most heavily defended air space in the world.
He was also seen with crates of state of the art box cutters and manuals on how to fly jumbo jets for dummies. There were also sparklers that were used to jump from WTC1 and 2 to WTC7 which caused the building to free fall at demolition like implosion speed. He also had passports that are able to withstand the high temperatures of a jet fuel explosion.
Don’t worry, we will send Seal Team 7 to get him, again. They have been trained to locate 6’4” terrorists dragging a dialysis machine around with them.
Hosfac, if you can believe the governments 9-11 story you should easily believe this one as well! Don't worry, you don't have to exchange your long pointy hat for a tin foil one.
@ Janstince
well said on several accounts, have you read Guns Germs and Steel - -recommend it
JS in SD
This is one of the few rare occasions I totally agree with your assessment. There is absolutely no reason for Syrian government to carry out the massacre, they have too much to lose, whilst the rebels have every reason to carry out this carnage to compell UN to intervene.
TrustVerify,
LOL, that was hilarious!
TrustVerify -
As I understand it, John Galt is a fictional character in one of the largest bowls of word salad and wankery ever written. Haven't read the book myself, have been recommended not to read it by most people I know who have.
Here's one for you:
Life is short, brutal, and nasty. - Hobbes
Jake -
Have heard it around several times. Haven't managed to fit it into my library yet, but I'll keep an eye out.
Allah, like God, puts the power in the hands of those with guns.
Just another day at the office in Allah-la-la land. What else makes headlines?
It's what they do best over there. Pffffft.
Thank God we have guns in our closets in this country.
I do not understand the "silence" of our government on this issue. What is Obama waiting to play follow the leader again...he is too inept to lead anything!
Why??? What's wrong with staying out of it? You want WWIII that badly, beanne? Because that is exactly what will happen if we get involved, since CHINA, IRAN and Russia are already in there and backing Syria. Feel free to go sign up at your local recruiter office then. And take your kid with you for good measure. Leave the rest of us and our kids out of it.
Beanne you would complain no matter what Obama did so keep it to yourself. You are inept, you cannot see anything past your Drug Rush Limbaugh colored glasses.
Unlike the cowboy presidents, Obama accepts we aren't the worlds policemen. Massacres in the hundreds of thousands have occurred in africa over the last 10 years with little outrage because the people are black and the press didn't provide daily updates on the death toll.
As soon as the president does have the opportunity to work with allies in the framework of international law to assist Syria, then folks like beanne will be complaining about using US taxpayer money for the intervention, assisting AQ and extremist elements like the Muslim Brotherhood with US armaments (that will eventually be used against us and Israel), deposing the 'secular' government of Assad with one prone to muslim jihad theocracy, betraying the US constitution, etc... etc... Everyone can see the game of the right-wing. The American Right does not care one bit about the people of Syria. Does not care at all. All of their faux outrage and crocodile tears are plainly evident and designed solely for political effect.
The sole purpose reason that the American Right wants for the president to intervene in Syria is to use any form of intervention (whether limited or all-out) as a campaign issue against him. No matter what course of action taken, it will be the wrong action. Rupert Murdoch media outlets and the cacophony of their blogs will put together the talking points for their opposition whenever the president does decide (or not).
I feel for the people of Syria, but I care for my own country even more. Therefore, let the people of Syria protect themselves against Assad. That is their own fight. In the USA, freedom seeking Americans have their own fight in protecting themselves from the Republican party, their corporate benefactors and their insane followers.
And they're white in the ME? Has nothing to do with color. It's all geography and the power brokers in DC have nothing to gain in Africa.
Obama is hiding behind hillary clinton skirt, just like all baby killing democrates
There are plenty who have signed up and are not chicken sh*t Americans who ignore massacres like this while they suck on their starbucks.
icekube - haw-haw-haw!!!! that is too funny. You could sell jokes like that to southern AM radio stations and to the guys that do the blue collar comedy thingy. That is just really funny stuff coming from your very perceptive and intuitive mind. LOL - can't stop laughing!!!!
30 years ago, Assad's father did the exact same thing to maintain control of Syria. He exterminated 20,000, maybe 40,000, in order to keep control.
Ronald Reagan, then President of the United States, did NOTHING.
Ok, let us compare on the international stage here how does these killings compare to sending remote drones to do the killings?--like my for-fathers the Vikings, were to the British and all the others---a little bit like USA nowadays, instead of plundering for gold and silver, it is now for oil, and making sure the oil flows in the pipeline----you can even see we have less interest in Syria unlike the way we took Iraq and Afghanistan!!
Rest assured people in the country where this happens they do see any killer as an aggressor, no matter if the aggressor has set up its own "rules of interest" for the killing!
Like in Iraq when the government was taken down, then even the small people get involved and new pundits try to flex muscles, before stability!
When Hitler came to Denmark, there were civilian attacks by the Danes every day on factories, runways food plants(basically blowing up anything the Germans were involved with)--like today's roadside bombing, but I guess such "resistance" is not allowed when US comes in!---But in the end see what happened to the Vikings and Hitler-------------------- If I was you I would stop laughing now----
Beane:
Don't put Syria on President Obama's shoulders. This isn't Libya. Look at the geography involved. Look who cowtows to Syria; Russia and China, and let's through Iran in for good measure.
Syria is a true case of GEO-POLITICS. Thinga are not so simple as to send in American troops.
True, Assad MUST GO!!! We must, however, be creative this time on how that comes about.
"And they're white in the ME? Has nothing to do with color. It's all geography and the power brokers in DC have nothing to gain in Africa."
My point is those feigning outrage at Obama by GOP supporters for not sending the troops in never shared that ourage during the massacres in africa. Stating color has nothing to do with it is quite an assumption on your part. Hitler considered blacks sub humans on par with jews but had no problem with arabs.
This is an election year- nobody wants to start any more wars for the time being. Wait until next year for a different picture...
And I'm sure you were one of the people that condemned him for "invading"Libya. Just another dumb political hack.
I'm not in favor of us doing anything in Syria. Mostly I think it is an Islamic problem and there is no place for the west in it. But for the people that think if we did do something we would be facing down the Russians and the Chinese, and we would start WWIII, well those days are over. The Russians and the Chinese are not going to risk a shooting war with the US over some country like Syria. The only way the Russians and the Chinese would ever shoot at us, other than by their proxies, is a direct attack by the US on Russian or Chinese territory. It just isn't going to happen.
I wonder how many people commenting on here could point Syria out on a map.
I wonder how many people commenting on here understand the history of the country and its leadership beyond what they read, or scanned briefly, in this article.
I say this because I have studied the region extensively, and I am not sure what the best policy is-yet so many people on here make it sound so simple.
I applaud the current adminstration for not rushing to action. As we saw with Lybia, it is possible to make a significant impact without invading a country where we are not welcomed (as Iraq) or the loss of American lives. However, Syria's relationships with other countries may make this a challenge.
However, if innocent lives really are being lost and there is something positive we can do about it without making the situation worse and with the support of the international community (please note that there are several qualifiers in that statement) we should do so.
Yeah! Because that worked out so poorly in Libya!
Gaddafi dead and not one American life lost-what a disaster!
We should have just invaded and had a success story like Iraq!
While this is tragic, it is time for the REST of the world to stand up and be counted. It is not our job to solve all of the world's problems. The inaction of the rest of the world will show them for what they really are.
And our action shows what we are...broke.
Russia blocks action, what's new? They would probably do the same thing to their people. Just as China would also.
jhnjul: No probably about it. Both Russia and China have done to their people what Syria is doing to its people and neither country would hesitate to do it again if they saw it as necessary.
As Russia and China see it, they cannot support intervention via the Security Council. Such action could establish a precedent and relegate Russia and China as hypocrites. Further, neither country wants to be seen working with the U.S. on international affairs that involve domestic violence, it would open the door for further criticism in their homelands.
Kick Russia out of the UN and the G-8.
jhnjul: Did you read the article? "The U.N. Security Council on Sunday unanimously condemned the Syrian government for heavy-weapons attacks on Houla."
I think the definition of unanimous is that everyone voted the same way. Guess that would include Russia (and China).
Todd: Big deal! They condemned this use of the use of heavy weapons in Houla. That's like condemning an abusive father of using a baseball bat on his wife and kids.
Has Russia condemned Assad and the regime of brutal suppression of a people unhappy with their rulers?
A. Yes
B. No
C. Abstain
D. Abstain and support the regime.
So this was a rebel-controlled area that the "activists" told the Western media was attacked by artillery fire, resulting in this massacre. Now it turns out that the artillery wasn't the primary cause of death. If the Syrian forces were attacking this urban area with death squads, then why was the Syrian artillery firing on them? This doesn't make any sense militarily since it would involve too many friendly-fire casualties. If the rebels were not in control, then why was the Syrian artillery attacking it? Could the Russians be right in that the rebels were summarily executing anyone who opposed them and then blaming it on the Syrians, thus removing their domestic enemies while using those deaths to drum-up anti-government support? It sounds just like the sort of tactic one would expect of terrorists infiltrating from outside Syria - and being supported by the anti-Syrian countries in the Middle East. The question is how gullible are the American diplomats, or are they simply happy to exploit the death of innocents to further their own anti-Syrian propaganda?
Could very well be that Russia is right by saying the rebels executed civilian families, transported them to another location and then blamed the Syrian government for the killings in order to cause global outrage. I wonder what government would kill its citizens knowing that it would create international condemnation? Wait, I see two responses coming up...
In most battles with artillary they usual follow shelling by a ground assault. To assume the assault had to occur at the same time as the shelling is the case of someone trying to validate a theory without considering any other.
Mass Anarchist: Let's sum up your insight on this article, but first, let me say you did a fine job raising questions on the story: "The first casualty of war is the truth".
Massachusetts, there is no room for reasoned thought in this forum. Are you trying to stir up trouble? You have been told what to think. Independant reasoning is highly discouraged. Consider this your last warning.
Massachusetts Anarchist: Where in the article does it mention that Russia said this way the rebels "summarily executing" and blaming the government?
Since "The U.N. Security Council on Sunday unanimously condemned the Syrian government for heavy-weapons attacks on Houla.", it appears that even the Russians believe that the Syrian government committed the atrocities attributed to them in this case.
No, the question is: how gullible are you? Do any of your statements have any basis in fact, or is it just your "informed" opinion as a foreign policy expert?
Good point. very smart observation...
Russia is so yesterday.
TacoSteve1: I like the sentiment, buth I'm not sure that's the case.
Well, no, taco - Russia is unfortunately "SO" "tomorrow".
They are more capitalist than WE are right now. They are exporting more oil than any other place on the globe other than OPEC. They are back to full speed in military spending, and have Europe back in fear. They now have "over-the-road" access to North America and a solidified foothold in Asia.
They are in a MUCH better position than they were in the Regan-Bush years.
with 50000 nukes at the ready...get real
While it remains unclear who actually did the killing, it is apparent that it is not government forces. They did not control the area. Perhaps these people that Hillary and Obama are busy supporting are not the nice people they want us to believe?
Hey Greg - yeah you may be right. Now, go and tell that to Senator McCain and candidate Romney. Both of these republicans are calling for the flow of US arms to these revolutionaries. I find this to be a dangerous step and do not support the flow of US arms to opposition elements that are unorganized and really unknown to us.
To be absolutely clear, McCain is calling for a US lead role in this entire fiasco. Romney has not crossed the bridge yet, but he is straddling a slippery slope.
Why does your Republican candidate support providing armaments to militarized forces that are not friendly to the US or Israel? Seriously, just ask yourself that question and your other friends with similar political dispositions. How much US taxpayer money is Romney willing to spend? Is he willing to engage in interventionist policies without support of allies and in contradiction of international law?
The questions go on an on. My primary question for you is - once the GOP establishment and candidate Romney decide to favor an all-in intervention in Syria, will you change your stripes and decide to back the intervention no matter what the costs (in lives or money) and simply accept the unknown outcomes that inevitably arise in war? I suspect that you are a good party follower, and will simply obey orders from your Ministry of Propaganda and march to the step that your political leaders have chosen.
Waiting until the UN is finished with their investigation before suggesting arms for the rebels would be the first step. I have no reservations of thought that the Syrian government is cracking down and killing citizens. They well could be using terrorists within the rebel group to stage this for themselves and then put the blame on the rebels to gain international support. This is another world over there, so let's not start divvying up sides right now.
allah aka satan is nothing more than a Defeated Choir Boy, who continues to Deceive his followers. As long as you choose him, you choose Death. For only JESUS said, "I am the Way, The Truth and The Life. No man can come unto the Father, but by Me." John 14:6 Because of Calvary, that offer still stands to Choose and Follow HIM. But Time is Running Out. Choose Wisely this Day Who You Shall Serve.
Alan, I believe the Koran has similar verses regarding only one God. Maybe it's the same God.
Allah is a translation of GOD in ARABIC, do you feel stupid now? Muslims worship the same GOD as christianity. go away you brainless clown
Come on Alan! You should know by now that Christianity and this message board is just going to get you beat up.
Sounds a lot like "either you're with us or against us". Sound familiar?
Our own civil war cost about 630,000 lives. Did the UN really expect Assad to leave power peacefully? So you are condemning it, what can you do about it? Like Obama saying so many things were unacceptable when he was campaigning. What did he do about them? Nothing. Financially or militarily we don't need to get involved. The strongest side will win and it is that side that can hold the country together. We may not agree with the winner but we won't have to support the government to keep it in power. Let the Arab countries intervene if they want to. There is an Arab League to handle this type of thing.
Larry 307607 - We did not stay out of Africa because the people are black. We are not racists. We stayed out of Africa because there is no oil in those countries. We are amoral capitalists.
If our government continue's to serve it's self, and not the people.
will this be us in later years.
Alot of posts seem to be demanding "WE" the USA do something. OK, everybody that feels we should be sending in our troops into another Muslim country raise your hands. The only way Asaad is going to be stopped is with military force (Where are those Arab League troops?). Send in the drones? Just like Libya. Bring democracy into a Muslim country......who are we kidding? You cant have a democracy and a theocracy. Anybody read about the election in Egypt? First election and they are in the streets protesting the results. They really wanted a free election (voter turnout was 46%). Until Sunni, Shiites, Kurds, and all the other sects of Islam can learn to get along with eachother there is no hope and there isnt a damn thing anybody can do
How much longer is the world going to stand by on the sidelines and allow this butcher to slaughter his own people. Innocent men ,women and children. Its horrifying and yet the world powers do nothing! There is a point in time when the observers become as quilty as the evil doers. We have reached that point in time. The Disunited nations failing again big time!
Aw did Allah take a break! oh wait, sorry I forgot Mr jackass Allah is the reason for all the fun over there!. Someone please tell my why we should give a @!$%# what the hell happens in these moron country's? let the @!$%#ers kill each other! who cares?
Feed them a pork chop, and a B.L.T and light fuse and walk away, let the whole region go KABOOM!!!
what does religion have to do with a political take over of a country? your a simple minded clown that should go out and travel the world instead of being a clown on the internet. go AWAY!
Muslims killing Muslims is more acceptable to Muslims than Americans killing Muslims. Besides, why are we wanting to depose all the dictators who have control and we know where they stand, and risk having all these countries become Islamic theocracies? Sometimes the devil that you know is preferable to the devil you don't know.
Please take a moment to step back a think for a second. These attacks have all the makings of a trap to suck the U.S. into a preplanned huge war in the middleeast. Iran is the neighbor, Russia and China are alllies with Syria. It's set up to be the perfect storm against the U.S. and other allies.
my 2 cents.
It's A trap! They are trying to suck the U.S. and allies into a war. It's the perfect storm. With Russia and China being allies of Syria, and Iran being Syria's neighbor.
Don't go in !!!
You think they don't know? Who are you warning? The rednecks posting aggressive comments here? They are not going far from their sixpacks. Maybe the jews that keep trying to provoke another war against their enemies? They know what they are doing and are very good at it...
So don't waste your time, nothing will happen
It is a fact that no one can dispute that the many different sects will not get along....period.
If you were to rid Syria of assad, a civil war would break out because the muslims are at each others throats.
There is no unity there. There is tribalism and hatred. We cannot shove democracy down their throats. They will not change overnight and accept it. We did not force this on them. They have lived like this forever. And I will not let my sons fight this useless war for them, and let them drag their headless bodies through the streets. They have brought this upon themselves and we cannot change it. They need to realize that religion should not be used to conduct hatred and wars or they are headed down the road of extinction. And we did not do this to them......period.
Islam, such a peaceful religion.
Ask yourself why now is Russia denouncing the killing in Syria why did it take so long Russia and China are as much to blame for the killing as the ones pulling the trigger they have backed countries like Syria and Iran for far to long
Armageddon is well under way.
"AMEN" Closer than you think. God is in control of all that is transpiring !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Congress needs to ban US involvement in Syria. The USA does not import or export anything of substance from Syria so Pentagon leaders should not be able to spin any logical argument for US intervention. Syria has always voted opposite US demands at UN. Middle eastern boys and girls need to police their own Islamic territory.
Guess what, the Rebels started this war. THEY ARE TO BLAME! If they laid down their arms to the RECOGNIZED GOVERNMENT, by the rest of the world, maybe the kids would have lived.
Guess what, MOST AMERICANS don't give a sh*t anymore.
We have all we can handle with dealing with our own children being killed in the most useless, unnecessary, tax payer sucking, INCLUDING Vietnam, war that we have ever been involved in.
What you forgot to mention is: If the rebels would have wanted to continue living under the hand of a dictator, forget they have any civil/human rights, and continued to be oppressed, their kids would have lived.
Guess what, most americans FORGET that the United States "delcared its independence" from the RECOGNIZED English Government for very similar reasons.
We do have plenty right here at home, but that doesn't mean we should turn our backs on others in the world.
You're not really serious are you? The rebels started this war? I guess facts have no meaning to you. This started out as peaceful demonstrators in Damascus that were then fired upon by Syrian troops. And they started this war? OMG!
Asshead will never leave volentarily. The U.S. needs to keep out of this one. The Arab nations need to do something. Russia and China suck! If the right has its way, we will be mired in another Assghanistan. NO MORE! We need to stay out of this one, no matter what.
Remember, we also fought our own civil war. Let them fight theirs!
sounds like US propaganda
then move to Syria