My feeling on this is simple .

All the indebted nations of the E.U. should get out of it now . The E.U. is destined to ca laps period .

bob,

Why this hatred of the E.U. ? E.U. membership didn't have anything to do with the Irish economic collapse.

You're right Peter!

All of these countries kept promising more than they were ever able to keep on providing and kept raising their taxes until people were finding ways to not pay or to emigrate to where there were jobs and lower taxes - and the cycle continues!

This is history repeating itself. Eventually, this will result in once again a multi-country war on the European continent.

On a side note, I am surprised that there is so much talk of going to work in the US and Australia. There are very few jobs in the US and now more Americans will have to compete with immigrants entering the job market. It could get real ugly, real fast.

Ireland and the Euro will fail as it is happening in other Countries too. Portugal and Greece are just the beginning. Some getting rich off the many is a contributing factor. Germany cannot be expected to be the Financial Answer to all of Europe and neither can the United States. It is a fact that some people and Countries have more money than others and the quality of life is different. When East Germany was made whole with West Germany it was a tough road for them, paid by all of Europe.

gj, correct it's the same old story. Politicians promising the world to get re-elected and kicking the cost down the road for the next generation to pay. Well, the next generation is here.

IMO, a message needs to be sent by this generation by rounding up the politicians of the past and making them pay for what they've done to this generation. That way, the current politicians will get their acts together so they don't end up with the same fate.

myspellcheckerisbroken,

The jobs in Australia are there, if you meet the immigration restrictions; age, health, job skills, & clean criminal/fiscal BG checks...

I have a Aussi neighbor, who retired from Australia and now lives in Thailand. His Thai wife is back in Australia, she makes bags of money cleaning houses for the mining company & doing Thai massages on the side. Her income has helped pay for their new; car, farm, and house in Thailand...

I left the USA permanently two+years ago, with my military retirement & now SS, for Thailand. Where the unemployment rates are 1% and GDP is 6%, with most of Asia. Just do not expect to get a good paying job here, unless you are Han and speak/write Mandarin & English... Ha! Ha!

Hey Bono why don't you just buy Ireland and fix it..

The European Union with the Euro has been a disaster. It was a great idea but as usual the bigger countries got most of advantages while the smaller countries got a currency that made them an un-competitive nation. My advice to Greece, Spain, and Ireland is get out now, there will be some pain but you will be able to recover. Become more nationalist and worry about what you can do to make your country great and not how you can contribute to some Utopian European Union.

The "Irish Tiger" boom was a fiction created by Globalists. Most of the jobs were manufacturing sent out of the US by greedy American CEO's, who cashed in on Ireland's cheaper labor and tax give-aways. Well, labor is CHEAPER in China, and the commie government there doesn't take no lip from an oppressed population, either! So, it's no surprise that the Globalists went elsewhere for an opportunity to exploit cheap labor. Moral: you have to build a self-sufficient economy and actually COMPETE! Mere collaboration with the Globalists is precisely what they want. l

And for young Ms. Lynch to consider while waiting for the gov't to change: CHANGE your major from English/History to something that will give you more marketable skills.

The fact is the world is in an enduring recession which harbours on depression and the crisis is deepening. The USA is in the same boat albeit less harsh that Ireland, Spain, Greece and Italy. Soon these conditions will drag France, England and eventually Germany down and with rampant unemployment social unrest will boil over. Who is to blame? Greed and a belief that the "good times" would never end. They have and the new reality must be understood. Lets hope war does not come about which has usually been the extension of enduring economic malaise.

It would make sense for Ireland and Greece to leave the EU, revert back to a sovereign currency and learn to deal with their problems. If they can't solve them on their own, they will just drag down the EU and become too dependent, like welfare.

Ireland is a great country, great people, they can do it. Greece, I am no so sure. They essentially fudged their numbers to get into the EU, they never really qualified.

The Irish fought long and hard for their independence from Great Britain only to now give themselves over to the rule of Germany and the EU? I don't think so! The Euro and the EU are a failure. The poor are being made to suffer and pay so the wealthy can have their gold. Vote NO to austerity and YES to growth and independence. There is no survival for the citizens of Greece, Italy, Spain, France, Portugal or Ireland within the EU. It's time for them to break away. Why should these countries forfeit the futures of their next several generations, putting them into virtual slavery, so the bankers and industrialists can have their mansions and yachts.

When East Germany was made whole with West Germany it was a tough road for them, paid by all of Europe.

This is simply false. After reunification, Germany continued to be the largest net contributor to the EU budget. At no point did Germany receive more money from the EU, than they paid into it.

Having spent some time over there last year on our honeymoon, I feel bad for these people, they were the nicest and most upbeat group of people we meet during our 2 1/2 weeks across Europe. Very hospitable and helpful. oh, and their women are pretty d@mn good looking too ;-)

This will seem like a stupid question to some, but what are the repercussions if they disband the euro dollar? I mean, at this point it just looks downhill for them. I mean, our taxi driver in Spain said he was moving to Columbia for work....At some point, they're going to have to drop the euro, but Im assuming it would be almost a deathblow to some of the country's economies??

the entire world is under attack by a group of fascist plutocrats hell bent on a different form of world domination.

Anybody with a brain knows Austerity will hurt many more people and will only save a few at the top...

the thought that the free markets will solve everything will only lead us to a world were money makes every last decision.. Actually we are already there and look what is happening>

WAKE UP... unregulated free market capitalism will enslave the masses... Just look at how many in this nation live at poverty levels with no benefits or hope of ever retiring

Stop posting based on feelings, and just look at what are possible solutions.

First, NO government can create jobs. China is an example of a government that is building just for building sake to keep workers busy, but the demand for the building is NOT there. So now many state owned businesses are belly up because they couldn't sell what they had to offer. On top of that their export partners are in a recession and thus unless the Chinese step up and buy their own stuff, they will see a huge glut of products with nowhere to go. China put together a huge stimulus which worked for a while, but the demand never caught up. Now the bubble has burst, the bankruptcy are coming and things are quickly slowing down.

Government should do more spending when times are slow, but at some point they are forced to ease off and let the private sector kick in. In the case of the US, we have done little to address the structural issues for our high debt, and a lot of the stimulus was poorly spent. So we wasted precious time and money on low hanging fruit. We were promised big infrastructure projects by Obama that never materialized.

In the private sector, businesses often get too big. It is called building an empire. I have worked in HR and have seen this over the over again. Each director hires more to make his empire look bigger. Pretty soon a lot of workers are doing very little. Eventually heads get chopped and a balance of need returns. There is no reason this isn't true with government. There is massive redundancy coupled with stealing and mismanagement because the government doesn't employ systems to keep controls in check. I have worked for government as well and it is extremely inefficient. The waste is enormous. Pretty soon many workers are just showing up each day with little to do.

Governments must trim the fat. They must cut costs which does mean jobs and if allowed the private sector must pick up the displaced workers. A government cannot exist without the private sector paying taxes to keep the government working.

The more people are reliant on the government for their food and housing the more in peril they become when a downturn occurs which is always does. Recessions typical come every 5-6 years to rebalance. Our last recession here in the US started in late 2007. It is now 2012. Do the math. One is coming again soon.

Another job solution is for people to open up their own businesses. An immigrant family recently purchased an old garage and fixed it up to rent to people on a daily basis that need a garage. So I mean people that live in an apartment that want to work on their car/bike now have a spot for them to do so. How clever of this family to think of such a need????????????

I have posted this before and this pretty much tells the tale of what has gone dramatically wrong in Europe for decades. Students graduating from college want to by a large majority work for the government. It was nearly 80 percent that instead of wanting to be their own boss want to work for the government. That is nuts. What is equally disturbing is that Obama has in the past encouraged students to do the same instead of picking the private sector to work for. He never mentions being your own boss.

We need leaders to encourage outside the box thinking and for people to want to start their own businesses and hire themselves. It can be done. My family did this about 7 years ago. I feel terrible that I never was encouraged to do this before.

By the way that immigrant that bought the old garage, also started a food service on wheels about 8 years ago. I am not saying they were getting rich do either, but they show the spirit we need to see across the globe.

VivaLaMigra,

There once was a time that "Made in the USA" meant something. It meant quality. Now days, "Made in China" has replaced many "Made in the ...." and it is nothing but crap. JUNK that cost a penny to make, a dollar to buy and will work maybe one time before it craps out. JUNK!!! The folks in the US think they are getting bargains! Wake up people. You are cutting you own throats and you either don't realize it or don't care.

Governments have no problem forcing its people to sacrifice and contribute; why don't they force the banks and Wallstreet to give back what they stole from the people?

Lol. This whole thing is sad, and the saddest part of all is that the people who believe their own national irresponsibility is not to blame for their bankruptcy are finding an audience desperate enough to believe it. The idea that a perpetually expanding debt via Keynesian economics on a drunken roid rage can end anywhere but an exploding bubble is asinine.

Hopefully they will leave the EU. They can scoop up the rest of the rubbish on the way out, and what remains will be a smaller, stronger EU-- just need to cut the useless baggage first.

jeff-1434833: Who made the laws to determine how the economic policies would operate and who would benefit the most? The "everyday Joe"? NOT.

Who benefited the most from the laws and the economic policies? (Hint: The answer to that question will also shed light on who controlled and who is to blame for the greatest transfer (theft) of wealth from the world's "middle class" to the "elite" the world has probably ever seen.

The Irish have been one of the euro countries prepared to take austerity measures on the nose, with little news being reported of civil unrest etc. They appear to be willing to knuckle down and sit it out. But let''s be honest here, the so-called boom years in Ireland were financed on the backs of the other, more productive countries like the UK, Framce and Germany who were big contributers to the EU fund. Ireland set about reinventing itself with swanky office blocks, new roads etc. and dancing on the world stage as a thriving economy, when in fact, it was mostly subsidized by Europe. Now someone has to pay for all of it. If the Irish decide to get out of Europe, do they intend to pay back what they got? I have relatives in other EU countries who are, frankly, sick of having to carry these countries who didn't pay enough in to the pot and when they were getting the cash from Europe, waved it in the faces of other countries as some sort of sign of their own efforts and success. Party's over and it's time to pay the fiddler.

trust, you are wrong. but marxists never understood capitalism did they.

first, all the assets in the world are NOT backed by cash. there is not enough cash in the world, ok? if there were, then bank runs would be impossible. if everyone went to the bank today to withdraw all their cash, out country would collapse immediately. by the way, this is coming anyway. look at the national debt.

if you pay 1000. for a stock, then you hold it as a document. the seller and you made a deal. then if you can NO LONGER sell it for example for more than 100., then YOU HAVE LOST 900. and NOBODY else ends up with the difference. it vanishes!! it was not held as cash but as a paper document, get it?

second example. you buy a house with borrowed money. if the value goes to half, who is supposed to 'end up' with the difference? answer - nobody! it is all on paper! and even if you handed over cash, if you can't sell it for the same or greater cash, NOBODY else 'ends up' with the difference!

duh!

"Ireland's economy was once growing so fast it was dubbed the "Celtic Tiger." But the property bubble burst, the banks were thrown into crisis, the government got deep into debt spending billions to bail them out. Ordinary Irish people are now paying the price."

The future of America if Obama gets reelected and he keeps spending $Trillions.

We can't blame the average Joe for the greedy ruling elite, who have duped/sold us big time.

1. When highly greedy manipulate affairs including economic these are net results.

2. In Europe, most of the nations like Britain, France, Germany and their pals don't understand their strengths and weaknesses. They imagine that they are still ruling the world.

If any rulers in the world qualify to be thrown out, they are the most despotic, autocratic and bigoted Sunni Saudi (a ruler with 5000 princes and princesses and more captive slave girls and women to enjoy), Kuwaiti, UAE and other Arab League Sunni rulers.

They invented Iraqi wars, high oil price manipulations and made themselves rich.

They gave back their Sunni extremist versions of hate preaching and killers training centers, mosques all over the world and worst economic mess in the US, Europe (PIIGS) and some more nations. They are backers of the Islamic killers, al-Qaeda and other label terrorist organizations.

These barbarians and beasts are responsible for 80 percent of world problems.

Now Saudis, oil companies and their lobbyists again are outsourcing their dirty jobs in Syria and Iran to the US, Britain and European nations.

So there are sanctions on Iranian oil!

Just watch oil prices jumping to $200 and Saudis, oil companies, lobbyists and the politicians’ political contributions making windfalls.

There will be more economic turmoils.

Don in MO and most of the people here haven't got a clue about Ireland's debt problems. Greece's problems are from spending too much; that's true. Ireland's problems are from cutting taxes too much! People need to shut up if they don't know what they're talking about. That's mainly the US problem too - we only started our $500 billion/year deficits after Reagan cut taxes. Just like any household: if you don't bring in enough money, you can't pay your bills. Ireland was able to attract Google and other corps with practically zero taxes. Now they're screwed and Google doesn't give a s hit about anything but their bottom line. Ireland's going to get zero help from those corps.

You can go on and on... but it all boils down to the fact that you just can't spend more than you make! The government can't/won't grasp that concept. The people on the dole just want more and keep buying into class warfare theme of "take it from the rich". They can't figure out that it's the middle class worker that always suffers the most pain supporting all of the entitlement programs. THe lefty government wants all these lazy people on the tit so they can garner more votes. The fact is people made poor choices. Too many bought more home than they could afford and then took "equity" loans on their over priced / over-mortgaged homes to boot. Now the responsible home owners among us have to feel the pain of a housing market that has us left our home values down anywhere from 20-40% in some areas. Reality is going to come and slap you in face whether you want it to or not. There will have to be measures to cut the BS or everything will come crashing down whether your head is up your arse or not.

Holy crap. People really need to shut up if they don't know about Ireland's economy. It wasn't like Greece's!! It wasn't spending!! It was tax cuts!! Tax cuts affect the budget just like spending!!! Deficits are from 2 things: too much spending and not enough revenue. Ireland went without revenue to attract businesses. Ireland is the perfect example of conservative tax-cuts gone wrong!!! Ya'll are proving you have no clue about what you're talking about.

ricardoh-3917836: According to your example, you never answered where the original $1000 went. It didn't just vanish into thin air.

The $100 went back to the buyer of the stock, but the lost $900 paper value is being kept by the seller of the stock who received the original $1000 purchased in the stock.

My grandmother use to tell me when the chips were down, "Don't forget, your Irish roots - you come from sturdy stock." Then she'd point out the picture of her father, reminding me he had green eyes too. She was the strongest woman I have every known and I miss her dearly. I image her suggestion would be for the the Irish to return to their roots.

The British nearly starved them out during the potato famine. Ireland wasn't the only country in Europe to watch their potatoes turn to mash, but their remaining crops were sent to England while absentee landlords evicted them. The Irish were the only ones to starve. Many immigrated then. But for those who stayed and survived, their will power did not diminish, and future generations would fight for Independence and win. There's fight left in them still.

If anyone understands austerity, it is the Irish. But the countries that have focused on stimulating their economies have been able to keep ahead of the downward spiral, with some growth. I think it's time for the Ireland to take the reins and implement polices that are Irish driven. One size does not fit all and that is exactly what Germany's plan is.

And to my Irish cousins: "Never forget, you come from sturdy stock."

Hey ricarduh...........If I borrow 100 thou and can only get 50 thou when I sell.........who the f&&k do you think gets the difference? The person I paid the 100 thou to. It's called a bank. It's called the 1%.

Roy Wilson..........Obama isn't spending trillions. The GOP is lying to you when they say that. And Roy, just a kind word for you here, if you make less than 500 thou the GOP doesn't need you, doesn't want you (except your vote) and won't help you in the future.

That is a lie, when you buy a house, you and the bank agree to the loan amount. If the value of the house goes down, you lose, but the bank still gets the agreed amount or the house. Same with stocks, the valuation goes up or down, but someone gains, while someone else loses. Again another lie. If one American dollar would be worth one dollar, not a dollar and a penny, or not 99 cents, then everyone could play on equal ground. But it is manipulated, by who else, The Central Banking Industry.

Gold is a prime example, who sets the rates for what an ounce is worth? I can promise it isn't the volume of trading, it's set by The Bank of London, again more manipulation.

It's all pretty simple. When you spend more than you take it, you run into big trouble eventually.
I love to see the socialists countries falling one by one.

Obama is destroying the country with his deficit spending. We now owe $15 trillion. This is five more than when Obama took office.

If it's not Scottish, it's Crrrrrraaap.

When you lose that healthy balance between government and capitalism, one side suffers while the other side flourishes.

What we are witnessing now is crony capitalism: "a term describing an economy in which success in business depends on close relationships between business people and government officials."

It's mainly the elite in government (policy makers) and elite in business who are benefiting.

Mike Fillmore..............Not true. The deficit is NOT 5 times more than when Obama took office. Did you get that from Fux News? And when he took office the 14 trillion we owed was 10 trillion from Bushie. And part ofthe 4 Obama spent saved our auto industry. If you don't know what you're talking about, dont make yourself look stupid by talking at all.

And you love seeing countries fall? I'll bet you're a Christian, aren't you. Jerkoff.

Mike -

The countries that have provided a stimulus have stayed afloat with varying degrees of growth. The others are SINKING. The economy has to be restored first in order for there to be sufficient revenue to address the other issues. And money is NOT trickling down from those wanting to maximize their profits.

Doesn't anyone find it interesting that big business in this country want us to be a huge part of this failing globable economy ? Our own economy is haveing a very hard time..yet big busines is booming while the citizens of this country hare falling on hard times..yet...does our elected care...for that mattter...do the citizens of this country care..I find it hard to belive they do considering the things we have allowed our politicans in congress to do. Are we as a nation to become as the european nations have become...run into the ground by the greed of the wealthy ?

@SoSickoftheGop

Mike Fillmore..............Not true. The deficit is NOT 5 times more than when Obama took office. Did you get that from Fux News? And when he took office the 14 trillion we owed was 10 trillion from Bushie. And part ofthe 4 Obama spent saved our auto industry. If you don't know what you're talking about, dont make yourself look stupid by talking at all.

You're suggesting other people look stupid when you're the one who clearly doesn't know the difference between deficit and debt? LOL!! Perhaps you should follow your own advice.

history is repeating itself.how do you think communism came about.the suffering of the people made it come about.the divide between the rich and the rest of the country grows until it becomes intolerable. to have a very few with far more then they can spend while the rest suffer never lasts.history is replete with revolutions sparked by the greed of the rich.anger builds until the peasants[thats you and me]grab our torches and pitchforks.that's how you get real change and wealth redistribution

"Warning permanent austerity ahead!"

Ahahah what a joke. Big government can and will always find a way to increase spending so long as it has a willing populace and an easily manipilated fiat currency.

So, the poor and middle class are taking a licking. That is obvious. Much of the excess spending appears to be used to bail out banks. Bad real estate loans. Understandable.

SO WHAT ARE THE WEALTHY GIVING UP? WHAT PART OF THIS IS HIGHER TAXES ON THE RICH?

I see NOTHING about anything they are giving up. Is this another "let them eat cake" situation. You know how THAT turned out for the wealthy...

From 2001 forward (when America was too busy to notice), the only result of the EU has been to take away from the poor and give to the rich. Those who say it is commie to want to protect the poor ought to consider who these poor European countries are: all very conservative religious countries, all hard-working good people: Greece, Ireland, Spain, and Italy. The first people to be hurt by conservative policies are religious conservatives. But the religious conservatives most often vote against their best interests, and they should consider this carefully, because it is not their personal interests at stake, but also the religion of their children's children that they should think about. A vote to let the rich do anything they want always is a vote against the future of people and their religions.

The banks borrow you fake money and you pay them back with real money. That is why countries are going broke. All the real money goes to the Rothschilds banking monopoly. The powers that think they be want a single currency because then they control everything. Each and every country should go back to their original currency and f#$k the banksters. This isn't about strengthening the worlds economy, it's about total control of the worlds people. There is an evil plan behind scenes. Do what you can to get out of debt and buy guns and ammo. I for one will not become a slave to the NWO. Plant a garden, drink raw milk, and grow you own cures.

This is a terrible, terrible mess. In all these countries, the uber wealthy have been greedy beyond belief. In especially in the USA. This 1% exists all over the world. They control the economies, the governments that make the rules, they have absolute power over the banking that is hammering the 99%. Indeed, it's in their nature to just continue with business as usual. These 1%'ers will not relinquish a penny if they are not forced to at the point of a gun, literally.

The 99% has no choice but to simmer at an ever higher level as the vise get's tightened on them a little bit every day. When adjusted for inflation, a man in 1969 made 12 cents more than that same man does today. There is no relief in sight.

It a pressure cooker with no relief valve and it will not hold forever. The longer it takes to blow, the harder the blast will be. When that happens, all you 1%'ers, all you politicians, lobbiests and power-brokers, bankers and anyone close to you, there is no standing army that can protect you, no police force that can hold the 99% back.

Just in America, 36,000 against 330 million (EU is even worse). Not good ods. I hope I'm not here to see it. But if I am, I will not hesitate to choose the winning side, pick up arms with the 99%.

Let's see, austerity doesn't work. So let's look at the alternative when no one is interested in giving you money. Even WORSE AUSTERITY.

The bright side for ireland is that they have more export options than greece. If I recall correctly, irelands financial problems were caused more by bad banking than unrestrained government spending and obligations.

backcountry.......... Go ask your banker the difference between deficit and debt. One leads directly to the other. Hand in hand, so to speak. And your point was?

Hey...America.......can't you see that this story could easily be about the United States? Doesn't this sound like "Obama's America" to you? We are just a step or maybe two behind this!

Not too many were aware of the fact that the Great Depression in the US was also a global depression. It started in the US (collapse 1929) and spread to the rest of the world. What got us out of said depression was WWII. I see too many parallels happening. The EU collapse was in part created by the economic and financial collapse of '08.

There are many interrelated factors, not one specific thing can be pointed at that was, or is, the root cause of the current problems. The factors have been long in the making, cans kicked down roads for too long and no one having the courage to address the issues before they became a crisis of this magnitude. The consumer model of prosperity has a few flaws, there can only be so much expansion before a contraction hits. Inflated prices, wages, costs all lead to bubbles. Housing bubbles, dotcom bubbles, stocks and derivatives bubbles, and until the 'bubble' factor is addressed, these collapses will continue.

Those of you attacking banks and Wall Street are correct, as are those who attack the nanny governments. The new normal is upon us, which is actually fine since things have gotten so unwieldy that they had to collapse. The fact of the matter is that recessions and expansions are all part and parcel of economic growth and decline. Marxism/socialism doesn't work any better than crony-capitalism as examples of economic and societal models.

Perhaps it is time to create new models, there is enough history around to indicate what does and doesn't work.

Mike Fillmore-'I love to see the socialists countries falling one by one.'

Ireland was the singularly most Reagan style capitalist country in Europe, opting for extremely low taxes on corporations. Do yourself a favor and listen and read something other than what support your own beliefs...ie learn..

Norway on the other hand is much more highly socialist and even have an active Communist party...hmm Mike check their standard of living against that of the US. Merely taking stances on socialism vs capitalism and drawing absolute conclusions is myopic and ignorant.

Mike Fillmore-'I love to see the socialists countries falling one by one.'

Ireland was the singularly most Reagan style capitalist country in Europe, opting for extremely low taxes on corporations. Do yourself a favor and listen and read something other than what support your own beliefs...ie learn..

Norway on the other hand is much more highly socialist and even have an active Communist party...hmm Mike check their standard of living against that of the US. Merely taking stances on socialism vs capitalism and drawing absolute conclusions is myopic and ignorant.

The Irish have taxed and over-spent themselves into the toilet... and now Germany refuses to be the "other people's money" that they want to keep over-spending... so like Greece, Spain, Italy, and France, they'll drop out of the EU, create their own money, and then print lots of it to pay their bills... of course, it'll be worth about what the Brazilian cruzada was worth in the 80's... about a million to the dollar.... then... eventually, they'll discover that the only way to get their economy back and their currency value up is to CUT SPENDING. Yeah, you won't be able to retire at 50... yeah, you'll have to pay some health care copays... yeah, you'll be expected to work a whole week and only have a paltry 3 or 4 weeks of vacation instead of 6 or 8. In other words, the FREE LUNCH is OVER.

Mygirl1 -- You are wrong. The depression did not start with the stock market crash it started almost full year after that and it was only a recession int he United States. Hoover and Roosevelt made it a depression with their government controls

Announcing the perfect plan for all sheeple! Knuckleheads who think austerity is the answer may now practice it. Just give 30% of your income to folks who don't believe in austerity.

Oh wait - that is the system we have now, except all of the 99% get to practice austerity and none of the 1% have to.

@SoSickoftheGop

backcountry.......... Go ask your banker the difference between deficit and debt. One leads directly to the other. Hand in hand, so to speak. And your point was?

I don't need to ask anyone nor do I quickly need to look up the difference on the net.

While Obama's average deficit spending is "only" about three times what Bushes were, if you only look at the first three years in office for both (Presidents typically crank it up a notch in their second term and hit overdrive their final year) then the Obama deficit spending comes pretty darn close to that 5 times figure.

Of course I now realize this is completely irrelevant because the person you were responding to never said it was 5 times more which was your claim "The deficit is NOT 5 times more than when Obama took office". He said "We now owe $15 trillion. This is five more than when Obama took office.". Which is factually correct.

Your numbers are the ones that are completely wrong.

And when he took office the 14 trillion we owed was 10 trillion from Bushie. And part ofthe 4 Obama spent saved our auto industry. If you don't know what you're talking about, dont make yourself look stupid by talking at all.

The debt was approx 10.7 trillion when Obama took office not 14. Only 5 trillion of that debt was created by Bush, not 10. Obama has increased the debt by, to date, 5 trillion (equaling Bush's 8 years in just 3.5), not 4. And the the auto industry bailout was little more than a drop in the bucket, not even worth mentioning let alone using as an excuse. While we spent 80 billion on the bailout we've already gotten back much of that money with more to come, the final cost to tax payers is estimated to be about 14 billion which will amount to about one fifth of one percent of the debt increase, even if you use the 80 billion figure it is only about 1.6% of the debt increase. As I said hardly worth mentioning no matter how you break it down.

To answer your question- my point was that you should not be calling anyone else stupid for reasons which I have just made clear.

@SS-1519577

Mygirl1 -- You are wrong. The depression did not start with the stock market crash it started almost full year after that and it was only a recession int he United States

A recession would be considered the start of a depression that immediately followed. The stock market crash is considered by most people to be the start of the Great Depression.

This story makes me sad. The country of my heritage has been duped and pulled into this mess by the country of my birth. Does America know no end to our greed? I had planned to move to Ireland once I finished my education and could afford it , possibly settle down and start a family - returning to my roots. However, it seems this is all near impossible with the current state Ireland is in. All of the smaller economies have struggled because of the poor decisions of self-centered people who can never have enough money. Ireland has been doing better than most at keeping afloat, and I don't believe handing over more of their sovereignty to the EU will make it any better. However, I think most Irish people know that this will probably just be another "never-end-um" just like the Lisbon Treaty... Tiocfaidh ár lá.

Sorry Mike B but you don't seem to understand that there are 2 sides to the issue - yep there is revenue and spending. Yep Ireland cut corporate taxes to attract employers - BUT they continued their income taxes. So when spending exceeds revenue - just like at home - you have 3 choices:

1) Raise revenue (get another job / raise taxes)

2) Cut spending (don't go buy another car / don't provide additional benefits to more people)

3) Do a mix between the 2

Common Sense Mike,

You know there was a universe BEFORE January 20th 2009. I know, this is a terrible shock to you.

This mess we have started in 1981 with Reagan. Obama was elected to clean it up and by all accounts, he's doing it. And it's going to take two terms to clean up the last 28 years before he started his first term.

Obama 2012

@Bill in Mill Creek

Obama was elected to clean it up and by all accounts, he's doing it.

By ALL accounts? I know this is a terrible shock to you but the half dozen people you listen to on MSNBC don't come close to qualifying as "ALL".

My life story began with An Irish and an Orphan, from nothing they made me. From luck I met Kerry, together we made our lives. Stay positive. Stay Irish.

Obama was elected to clean up Reagan's mess? Whew. At least you didn't blame Bush. Now, how come not one Obama supporter ever mentions how, when the economy was tanking, Obama focused like a laser on health care? Almost two years of the health care, the economy, well, lots and lots of stimulus money was going to fix it. Sadly, most of that money went to unions and state budgets to cover up for shortfalls. Nothing of the stimulus created any lasting jobs unless you figure that paying almost $238,000 per job created is a good thing.

Hell, with the amount of money spent on bailouts and stimulus, had said money been given to every man, woman and child in the US they would have been millionaires many times over. That would have bolstered the economy big time. How many trillions went to shore up foreign banks? Billions and trillions of dollars and STILL nothing of any worth to talk about.

I remember listening to Bush and then McCain and Obama during the elections when news of the 'financial crisis' broke. They were all in agreement that all that money just had to be spent to protect us, and all the while the thought in the back of my mind was, protect us? Hell, give us that money, we'll stimulate faster and quicker than the Ponzi scheme creating bastards who started the mess.

mygirl1: Crony capitalism is alive and thriving.

Yup

Meanwhile, back in the good old USA we have a president that just went on record as stating:

"President Barack Obama will not extend the Bush-era tax cuts for wealthier Americans — even temporarily."

Considering that it is these same wealthier Americans that are already footing the bill for his maniacal spending that he's attacking, he's ignoring reality and rationality in favor of ideology. After all, with the mess he's made of everything, what else can he do but patronize his marxists followers at the expense of the American people.

Look for Obama to dance the usual blame game while whining "It's not my fault".

Wet Willy - no mattter what the article you comne back to the same old vomit about President Obama - you're wrong on alll counts - it's the Right WIng who place ideology over humanity - as evidenced by their horrror at having to provide afffordable Health Care for people.Callling President Obama a Marxist does nothing but diplayu your ignorance about Marxism.

DMAN - I agreee with you about the Irish - they're the nicest people you can find - like White Jamaicans,

Not too many were aware of the fact that the Great Depression in the US was also a global depression. It started in the US (collapse 1929) and spread to the rest of the world. What got us out of said depression was WWII.

mygirl - You might also say quite accurately that the Depression caused WWII. Hyper inflation and skyrocketing unemployment caused desperate Germans to lend an ear to racial provocateurs like Hitler, who otherwise would have just been kooks preaching on a street corner.

Today Germany is doing better than its neighbors [or the U.S.] with its economy, and countries like Spain and Greece are leading the charge towards complete economic collapse.

Well, today, neither Germany, nor any country in Europe has the power to initiate a 3rd world war. The economies worth watching would be China's, Russia's and that of the U.S.A. Despite grumbling among the electorate, we're actually doing better than much of the developed world. So too is Russia. China, however is worrisome. Although China continued to grow [although at a slower rate] throughout the 2007-2009 recession, there are signs that China's overbuilt economy is on the verge of stalling. Growth of the last 6 months has been largely flat, and real estate bubbles that would dwarf anything seen in the U.S. in the last decade, have been showing signs of being ready to burst.

If China's economy should suddenly come off the rails, with the attendant social and political unrest which would surely follow, that has the potential to spark a world-wide conflict, and World War III would probably be what World War I & II were not, the war to end all wars.

Given the state of the EU I think Germany should remove itself from the EU. Everyone hates them for what they have achieved and maintain. They want their money and credit so they can continue living the way they had been. When Germany leaves and goes back to the Deutsche Mark their economy will continue to thrive and the rest of the Euro market can crumble on their own.

Red Neckelsoon, what the hell is wrong with you, why do you have so much hatred you must be a very unhappy person. I am from Cork Ireland and live in the U.S. for 23 years and I have been very homesick for 23 years, so for people to have to leave there country for work is one of the hardest things to do. So think about you speak.

Red: Your name says it all. Ireland was anything but socialist you dolt. It was the European's version of a Republican wet dream.

You should study economics and globalization before you open your trap. The World Bank has shifted funds to developing countries to help stabilize the globe. I am optimistic both the US and Europe will weather the storm. It is out of any of our politician's hands. They are just WB lackeys.

Red is an obvious troll,ignore him

When Germany leaves and goes back to the Deutsche Mark their economy will continue to thrive and the rest of the Euro market can crumble on their own.

You're kidding Don, right? No country has benefited more from the euro than Germany and no country will suffer more if it folds. The euro has made Germany's exports cheaper while making the exports of every other country that uses it more expensive. The Germans have reaped all the benefits at the expense of their neighbors so the resentment these countries feel toward Germany is understandable. Greece, Spain, Italy, Ireland and all the others should leave the euro and go back to their old currencies. They will then be much more competitive as their exports become less expensive. And when the euro collapses and Germany is forced to go back to the mark, their economy will deflate under the weight of a much stronger currency.

How many ring arounds and fire walls greedy can build.

These economic mess are due to Iraqi wars.

Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE and other rich ME sharks became richer by manipulating oil prices too high.

Oil companies and their lobbyists also benefitted. Oil prices, which were hardly $30 a barrel before 1991, shot up to $140 a barrel.

Since 2003, future traders, rating agencies, Wall Street and oil companies and their lobbyists transferred five trillion dollars from oil importing countries to oil exporting nations.

Is it the time for sanctions on Iranian oil, manipulate oil prices higher and invent more economic miseries?

iraq did not have WMDs nor Iran will have them. If Iran wants nukes it can buy/steal from Pakis.

Gaithersburger Good point. Glad to see somebody here has a clue about what they're talking about. Economic theory and economic fact ends to get lost in this whole "government bad" blanket worldview.

Greece no longer has anything to export. As someone said recently, Greece is not a country, it's a party.

Ireland would be the perfect country to leave the EU first. Historically, Ireland was a bad match for the EU anyway. Ask the English, we don't live on our knees for anyone.

I own a software company in Boca raton, FL. I have offices in 5 major western European cities. I go there often. Big changes are coming to Europe. The people there are fed up providing for the subhuman leeches. They want to be be more like the good ole US of A. I have seen a huge shift in sentiment over the last 5 years, especially in Germany.

They realize that socialism has failed miserably. Capitalism will sweep thru Europe now and be welcomed with open arms. No more 8 week vacations. No more retiring at 50. No more free college for 40 year olds. Yay!

Liberals. God love em! LMFAO!

@Red Neckelson

For someone who run big company, you sure failed to read or learn anything. It's not socialism that creates the crisis throughout EU, it's the "crony capitalist". There is even a quote in the article saying the problem with Ireland is due to "bail out" of big banks.

Ireland is what Republican wants all along, and now you bury your head in the sand and scream "socialism". Guess what? Germany is socialism with labor representative at each corporation and look at how well they are doing.

The U. S. of A. once had all those social programs that you hate Red. I guess you hate people. Are you a robot or an alien? Maybe you come from another part of the world that hates both Europe and America, but get a clue, all the anti-social programs in China (supposedly a socialist country, but no vacations and no help for the poor) haven't worked there; they will have a collapse too. And you want to see people suffer. Do you know what it is to be denied medicine? I was denied today myself by my all-knowing omnipotent and holy insurance company, I can tell you, it HURTS.

Angela merkel is facing hard times from her constituents for her support of bailouts. The germans work smart, have developed a quality export economy and pay higher taxes to have the social programs that they enjoy. No wonder merkel is against the euro bond which will increase germany's risk exposure to the bad economic policies of those wanting bailouts.

Don in mo... while I can't agree with your reasoning for germany to leave the EU, I do agree that germany and some other northern EU members are in the position to best survive a EU breakup.

The best source of info I have found so far on the continuing debt crises in europe is BloombergTV as they cover global economic and business events with very little political innuendo and bias. Just have to except the time zone differences to get the news first hand.

So let me get this straight......some people believe it is Republicans fault that Obama has been spending like a drunken sailor for the past 3 years? I mean seriously.....other than TARP, which the government was repaid for...with interest....and Obama spent along with his $800 Billion stimulus......which Republican have you seen passing out billions of our tax dollars to their political supporters? Has Obama switched parties and the media failed to inform the public?

Gaithersburger, Mike Brutus Keep posting so we can get above the mind numbing rhetoric of the faux challanged.

Ireland is a wonderful country with incredible people, they were the Reagan vision of capitalism and low taxes on corporations who came for cheap labor and no to extremely low taxes. Now the population, the workers are bearing the brunt for the net zero taxes that these corps are paying through austerity and lowered incomes. there is a balance between governance, regulation and free markets that this model did not find, nor have we in the US. Norway with it's socialist structure offers it's people a far better living than we have.

Get past the socialism bad capitalism good rhetoric.

Thanks American - you did catch the subtlety of my comment. The question is why be the whipping boy for others when you have other alternatives. It takes the efforts of all but when one side starts excoriating the other over their unwillingness to share what they have you do put the smell of your greed in the mix. No one is asking for Germany's help - they are demanding it as if it is their due.

Common Sense Mike, How long are you guys going to whine about a stimulus package that came during the worst recession since the Great Depression? Any Republican would have done the same exact thing at the time. What other spending programs has Obama initiated? Anything besides a stimulus during recession? Quit faking it, man. Fact is, our debt might be problem because we carried $10 Trillion in debt going into the recession. This started when Ronnie Reagan took us from $1 Trillion to $3 Trillion in debt and then left us with $500 billion annual deficits for a bumbling congress to fix. The Bush tax cuts took us right back to those deficits after the brief Clinton surplus. Fact.

@George Brown

Now the population, the workers are bearing the brunt for the net zero taxes that these corps are paying through austerity and lowered incomes.

How does that even make sense? Corporations don't receive tons of money from the government so how is low taxes on them responsible for anything? By not paying for what others receive? That makes sense to you?

there is a balance between governance, regulation and free markets

The more "governance" and regulation the less free the markets are. Every major economic collapse can be directly traced back to governments attempt to regulate those markets. Free markets are not perfect, there will be failures but these failings will pale in comparison to what happens when central planners try to prevent them.

@Mike Brutus

The Bush tax cuts took us right back to those deficits after the brief Clinton surplus. Fact.

The National debt increased each and every year under Clinton. FACT. So please do explain how the debt could increase if the government took in more revenue than it spent? I can't believe there are STILL people who believe there was a surplus under Clinton.

backcountry164 - you are factually correct. The "balanced budgets" of the last Clinton years, were in part due to borrowing against government trusts, such as the Social Security account. This would be analogous to you raiding your children's college fund to pay the mortgage. Your debt to the outside world has not increased, but you have swapped one external obligation to an internal one.

That said, only a complete fool or a rigid ideologue would argue that our country was not in a far better state financially [and in every other sense] in 2000, than in 2008.

I do not blame Bush for everything bad which happened on his watch. But he is certainly the instigator of our country's descent into a sea of fiscal red ink, from which we have not since recovered.

JS in SD

Respectfully: Everyone is intitled to their opinion and free to express it.

To use your quote / "These people are talking about emigrating here to the US. Why in the hell would we let them."

Sure makes me wonder.

Who? Who are WE??????

What? What are we? MY opinion. WE, WE THE PEOPLE. WE are Americans and I thought better of us.

When? When ever did we get so weak we should never find legal immigration not good for us and the immigrants wanting to be here?

How? How dare we impose our will to be against others for selfishness.

I value the homeland I live in the United States of America. I value the liberty for which WE stand. I strive for peace and understanding. I care to live and let live. I think should I ever find it unacceptible to accept immigration here we might be taking steps backwards. We might be thinking backwards. We might even become backwards people.

Liberty and oppertunity that exist here in America must never cease to exist for even one person alive Should it cease to exist. Then WE all of us will fall.

just an opinion from a regular guy citizen of The United States of America

Fran, while I agree with the sentiments of your post, I have to agree with JS.

Did you see the article on CNBC about some 20,000 people showing up to apply for 877 odd jobs at a Hyundai plant in Montgomery, AL? These are those folks who "don't want to work" and "just want to collect their bennies." We can not, at this point in time, say "give me your tired...."

I sympathize with the folks in Europe; but I sympathize more with my neighbor, who has a wife and two children, who has been searching for a job for over a year, is underwater on his mortgage and is willing to do whatever he can to keep body and soul together.

This is like the times of the Great Depression. Remember the sign at the city limits "Unemployed men keep moving. We cant feed our own."

Maybe such a sign needs to be in NYC. (Appears to be the welcome mat to all of Europe)

I have as much compassion for the down and out as the next guy, but like Annie said we need to employ our own before taking on the rest of the world.

Call me what you want, but at least end with American.

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. The wretched refuse of your teamming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Annie bunch of numbers...why is it anybody but your neighbors fault that they bought a house they could not afford. There are plenty of jobs available, but like alot of people, won't take a job they feel should be done by someone else. They have a couple of kids, put them to work.

Cheese...just so it's done legally. No where on the poem on the Statue of Liberty does it say 'illegals'.

Our immigration laws need a slight reform to make them flexible relative to the employment situation here. The higher the unemployment here, the less people get in and vice versa. Besides, giving people an escape from their problems isn't the solution to reform in those countries. Look at Mexico. Why should Mexicans stay in Mexico and straighten the country out when all they have to do is go to America. America cannot save the entire world from itself. Be realistic please.

More Sean Thorntons, fewer Brian Quigleys. Ireland and her people are a singular breed. May God bless Ireland.

@DeJay

why is it anybody but your neighbors fault that they bought a house they could not afford. There are plenty of jobs available, but like alot of people, won't take a job they feel should be done by someone else. They have a couple of kids, put them to work.

Under water means the house value is now below the amount the house is mortgaged for. She did not state they were not making payments. Take a few seconds to actually read before commenting, or else you make yourself appear less than average intelligence. I think your pro child labor stance is pretty sad considering no age was given.

JS in SD, funny that you write this. In these posts I have read many times how fellow Americans wrote that they are going to leave and live elsewhere since things are so horrible here. And I always thought to myself: and who would take them? It is not easy to leave your country and go and live elsewhere, and that is true for every person of this globe. Let's just hope that you'll never be one of them. You might find out that there are many out there who just don't want you.

If we don't start taking care of US 1st then we are doomed to same path as the Eu. countries. We must take care of our own, unemployed, before we start thinking of letting a butt load of immigrants in to take jobs that aren't there. Government must stop spending and loosen regulatory burdens so that business can ramp up to open up jobs. Enforce corp taxes and cut them on companies that actually do mfg. here. The problem must be dealt with in regards to the already huge number of Mexican illegals here...that is toughest problem todate. So many jobs that they do if they are not here who will do them...everyone says pay more ...yeah but who can afford the pay the higher prices of construction, farming, roofing and on and on???

Well, if they come here they will come as a pretty well educated immigrant, with great language skills, medical degrees, law degrees, engineering degrees etc. able to be extremely productive when our economy improves. The Irish have been recognized as a highly skilled and literate workforce. The USA could do a lot worse.

Not enough jobs? Don't you mean not enough jobs that "you" would take? Not everyone needs a 3 bed 2 bath house with a thirty year mortgage to justify their existence. People in the U.S. are going to need an adjustment on their expectations. It's going to be interesting to see how many people will be out on the street here soon.

These folks want "a" job. Any job. Just like the people that have been coming here for 200 years.

DeJay - my point about the underwater mortgage is my neighbors can't just sell their house and move to an area with more jobs (if such a place exists). I live in a very economically depressed area. It's coming back, but not very quickly, and houses that have been on the market for 3 years are just beginning to sell at much lower prices than listed. Oh, and the children are 6 and 3 - maybe you can make a suggestion as to the appropriate type of employment for them.

we could always have an immigration law like australia. Something like "no criminal record, got cash and do you have the job skills we need here?" No? move along somewhere else.

Annie-716754

"WE can not at this time, say GIVE ME YOUR TIRED" I respectfully differ in opinion.

WE: We The People as a union can.

I can hear the crys of my fellow Americans who suffer from lose of employment, who have fallen into financial rears, and who are still responsible for the well being of family members. Through no fault of their own the limited resources to help them run out and dispare sets in. I also know first hand from personal expierence but, I don't want to get into that here.

I do apreciate anyone who defends, and protects family first.

I am not into sympathy or condulences.

And more than anything I DO NOT WANT PROBLEMS for ME, for YOU, for anyone. I guess when trouble comes OUR way we look at this trouble. Trouble is a PROBLEM I think. Problems sometimes are more difficult than other problems. Most or all problems I've seen can be solved.

WHERE THERE IS A WILL. Their is a way. Those not willing can't. Those willing can solve problems. Not always by themself but, with the help of others. AS A UNION WITH HOPE & HARDWORK YES WE CAN.

I believe in the United States of America. WE ARE STRONG. I stand beside her. One nation under god. For which there is Freedom and justice for all. Probablly most eveyrone in the world is an immigrant one way of another somehow. No one owns the earth or any nation country. We live by rights.

I think you are on track as far as this is not a good time to advertise for immigrants (welcome to America won't you come on in) But, NEVER should we become so down, so sick and tired to not want or allow immigrants through legal process be unwanted or unwelcome here.

Making us whole and feeling better. Jobs more availible jobs for all us here who can and wants to work.

JOBS for a fair wage and benefit.

The whole financial system in the United States sucks. To many traps. Today so many people are over extended and their debt. is close or surpasses their source of income. Alot of this is caused by the way the people who lend have mislead people, over charged, manipulated markets. I think this happens in alot of the 1st. world countrys as well.

Any way no matter how you ,I, or the next guy says it , looks at it. or talks his or her story it JUST DOES NOT FIX ANYTHING.

Hope and peace to all. We are Americans we are strong. Together as a union WE CAN. Together as a UNION WE WILL. Divide we fall.

Bernardo-1874964

It's like running up debt on my families credit cards and then when I reach my credit limit, I complain that the credit limit "is not working" because I have to change my lifestyle.

Only simple folk would try and over simplify the situation by comparing the complex and complicated working of a government with their own little household budget. Do you fund wars with your household budget? Do you provide humanitarian aid to 3rd world countries in the form of millions?

Bernardo-1874964

"You cannot continue to live above your means. It is either cut now or cut more later. Do you want to sacrifice some now, or have your children sacrifice even more?"

I agree.

It's the 21st. Century so many in the world still struggle taking the easy way. Then wind up with the most hardship do to unwise choices. Choices that not only weakens them but effect the future generations after them.

Mike, I think you can make parallels between a household budget and the budgets of nations. Do you get to buy a new house (fund a war) when you have no money to make the payment? Do you get to buy three new cars (provide humanitarian aid) if you don't have the cash on hand to do so? We have gotten ourselves into quite a pickle, and since I am no economist by any stretch of the imagination, I just keep going in circles on how our country gets out of this mess.

Mike-416:

Do you fund wars with your household budget? Do you provide humanitarian aid to 3rd world countries in the form of millions

yes, smart-ass, we all do through our taxes, and without out our specific consent to a Republican Puppet-in-Chief I might add.

Cjsez

yes, smart-ass, we all do through our taxes, and without out our specific consent to a Republican Puppet-in-Chief I might add.

Good job missing the point genius. The point was Haiti humanitarian aid is not the same as running to the grocery store to grab your weeks worth of food.

None of that is why there's a problem Mike and yes people do give to charities and do battle in courts and they battle with their own lives. The number 1 reason for bankruptcy has been health care costs.

The problem Mike is people screwing each other over, there by empowering government, government which by it's very nature is abusive of power and extremely wasteful with the resources given it, to "regulate" bad behavior. Governments have full authority to regulate when one person infringes on the personal freedoms of another, as the abuse grows so does government in all it's corruptness with the corruption supposing to be a deterrent keeping the people from empowering it. By the looks of the sizes of government we are the biggest A holes history has ever seen.

All these problems could go away if the people would care for their neighbors instead of taking every cent they have so they can another dollar that by the way has lost around 95% of it's value in the past hundred years. It's why it takes a billionaire today to be as well off as a millionaire then. The "educated " for all their education just can't see this, or more than likely are unable to do anything about it being no more than a junky with their love of money, the root of all sorts of evil. All these evils are the result of a love hate relationship, love of money and hate of people. Bad times are bound to be the reward.

I don't agree with the credit card analogy. Austerity doesn't work because it perpetuates the problem. The more money you take out of an economy the more it shrinks. The more it shrinks the more people are unemployed. This is a zero sum game. To use your analogy, if you don't go out to eat to save money, that restaurant misses out on that meal they would have sold to you. The waiter did not get that tip. Less money for the restaurant and waiter, mean they are going to have less money. The restaurant orders one less steak from his supplier, the waiter decides he doesn't need the after work drink. This happens with enough people, the restaurant lets a waiter go to adjust to the number of people coming in. The food supplier is selling less food, so it lets a delivery guy go -- and on down the line. Scale this to every household in America who is in debt and you can see how this shrinks the economy. We are running roughly a $1 trillion dollar deficit, Imagine how removing that amount of money from our economy would effect our economy. Sure you can remove foreign aid to countries which our country would never see the effects, but the majority of this money would be removed from people and companies in the US.

This is a very complicated problem around the globe and there is not an easy solution. There is not a solution which can fix this mess overnight. China's economy is slowing down. China has been manipulating their currency, government subsidizing industries to give them an unfair advantage on the global markets. They can not continue these practices forever. Brazil lowered interest rates to boost their economy. Europe is imploding. The Fed and their policies might have weakened the dollar, but as of late, the dollar is gaining strength because of the condition of the rest of the world. Oil is been on a decline as of late. The stock market is becoming more volatile. The world is at a cross road and if the wrong action is taken, we could see another major shock to the world economy.

Like him or not, Obama is not the reason for all our troubles. It is not Bush's fault, the republicans, the democrats or any other entity you want to pass this off on. This is decades of policies which have slowly put us on this path. There has been reckless deregulation in our financial system. There are people gaming the system on all fronts with only their interests in mind.

We need to provide stimulus to get things moving and grow the economy. Whether it is giving companies incentives to bring jobs back home, lowering taxes, a tax holiday to bring overseas money home, or whatever -- We need to stimulate the economy. We need to give businesses a reason to hire more workers. Companies have been doing more with less headcount through this downturn. With the rest of the world showing signs of weakness, it is very difficult for a company to have the confidence hiring is a good idea at this juncture, so we need to find a way to make it more attractive. If we could get people back to work, we would have much needed tax revenues, and lower tax dollars going towards helping these people.

The Fed and their policies might have weakened the dollar, but as of late, the dollar is gaining strength because of the condition of the rest of the world.

Something a lot of people don't realize is that when our dollar is weak compared to other currencies, it benefits our exporters, and disadvantages the producers of goods we import. A weak dollar is not necessarily a bad thing when considered in terms of international trade.

Mike -416 - so sorry, but even obama has compared government budgets as being like household budgets. The only complexities in a government budget is how to avoid bias in spending the revenues and in the interpretation of the "general welfare" clause of the US constitution.

Naturally the government has more options in securing and paying off loans as well as increasing revenue through taxation and printing money than a household. But in the end, they both have to address income vs expenditures

coke or pepsi, you have some valid points except concerning austerity For austerity does not have to mean an abrupt end to all spending, but it does mean that spending should be targeted to what will improve an economy within 2-3 years vs ending/suspending spending that does not.

The caveat here is that one doesn't allow the economics to pass the point of no return where the only option becomes voluntary austerity or unintended austerity because no one wants to loan you money that you are not likely to ever come close to paying back. Case in point is greek bonds. Hell of a nice return on ones money, but most know you are unlikely to see it. Greek bond holders have already had to take a haircut on the bonds already purchased.

Even in our present American economy, spending cuts can be made that can be redirected to encourage growth with minimal impact. Tax reform can also be done to increase revenue as well but obviously reform is not as easy as just raising tax rates. Reform in both spending and taxes can lead us to a path of sustainability where no cuts and only taking the easy path of just raising taxes only kicks the can down the road to the inevitable austerity trap that greece currently faces.

immigrants have every right to come here and compete for work as your ancestors did.

Don G - If you cannot see that this is not "Obama debt" or "Republican debt" or "Democrat debt" but something that has been building for the last, oh, 30-40 years, then there is no point in debating. Soon to a neighborhood near you? You might be right but I sincerely hope not.

Annie - I agree with you. The debt has only gone up 50% (from $10.5T to $15.7T) since Obama took office - so the current administration is responsible for 1/3 of the current debt. But it took us 200 years to go from zero to 10 and now we have to figure out how to get it down to a truly manageable position and as we've seen over the last 3 years no politician has the stomach to do what needs to be done on both the revenue and spending sides. And the current congress using the budget from 2009 as a measure has the almost $1T of ARRA funding in it - so we just made that part of our baseline.

Except, of course, under Clinton we had a balanced budget. Anyone remember that? Bush, with his socialism for the rich economics, bankrupted the country.

www.craigsteiner.us/articles/16 If you will read this article it will explain that Clinton did NOT balance the budget...he merely played with creative bookkeeping. ;o(

Bob, in Ireland and all over the world the housing bubble is the root cause of our current economic situation. We discovered as have others that the magnificent ATM machine which for a decade pumped "work free" income into folks pockets becomes nationalized once sufficient numbers run into trouble and cannot repay their debts.

In the current situation the correct answer is for world treasuries to dilute the currency by a sufficient amount to erase these debts.

ALL the worlds debts should be nulled out and strict rules implemented to ensure these debts cannot return. Either that or chaotic collapse. Sure your pension will not buy as much and your salary will nut buy as much, but there is no other way now that this situation is already created it requires dealing with.

Millions borrowed against "supposedly" rising home prices. When the bubble collapsed the banks were left holding worthless property and the government was forced to bail them out or risk immediate financial collapse. We are still facing this problem today.

The fact that Christine LeGarde doesn't pay taxes is a red herring. That was one of the benefits for the position and the fact that it is an international organization that pays her. Not making her pay taxes in one/any country just means that she should consider herself above the politics of the countries her organization gets funded by and the countries her organization funds.

But I'm sure she'd be just as happy to be paid $1M per year and pay taxes to France as she is making $600K and not paying any.

The IMF chief is not a tax dodger. The IMF set it up that way. Much like our Congress, their own self-interest comes first. It is rather hypocritical of elitists to tell you "do as I say, not as I do".

Then again, when one retires in their 50s without a penny in savings, what do you expect?

Bob-1008224 is on the dole and wants to stay there. He is scared that his check will soon stop coming!

Soo tell me BOB do you work for a living? Do spend your money on things not made in America? Are you even an American or just one of those low life check cashin trailer trash dopesmokin crackass ho's living of the backs of a working man/woman, that thinks because you live here you are one?

Notice how the right responds with hysterical ad hominem attacks instead of facts? That's their tactic. Divide and conquer. Now they're attacking the middle class as a bunch of freeloaders. Steve has NO facts, NO logic, merely his theology of denial and faith in Wall Street. And that's done SO much for America

Tell you what, skeets...you just keep sending your money to Wall Street. I'm sure they'll appreciate it when they buy your company, lay you off and throw your family in the street. Go ahead. Keep pushing your love for Wall Street. See how far it gets you

I use CAPS to STRESS ALL my talking POINTS. I'm a LIBERAL SHILL!

When your debts exceed your income, do you follow Keynesian economic policy of spending more? That has never been proven to work.

You can't keep running into that wall and expect different results. BOTH (oops I did it too) parties have yet to pass any plan. BTW, Bob, your own party hasn't passed a fiscal budget in over 3 years. Tell me again what's the brand D plan? Cuts on social programs.

I keep sending my money to Wall Street because I want to have a retirement not reliant on a pension.

Notice the appropriately named "Liars" has no facts to back up his mythology? Keynesian economics works. Who said so? A guy named Mitt Romney. In the recent issue of "Time" he said that, to follow Ryan's budget next year would cause, in HIS words, a 'depression'. Yep. Pulling a TRILLION out of the economy would cause a depression.

In addition BUSH caused this recession with his big spending policies. The biggest factors in the deficit are Bush's tax cuts and Bush's wars.

Cuts on social programs? More class warfare. The oil companies get 4 billion in tax expenditures, yet the GOP won't cut that. They won't cut farm subsidies. So they focus on Medicare and social security and unemployment payments. So the middle class pays higher taxes than the rich, bails out the rich, gets laid off by the rich, THEN has unemployment cut because, according to the rich, we're 'freeloaders'.

And Wall Street sucked $13 TRILLION out of the economy in this depression. So you go ahead. You keep telling us what a success Wall Street is. If this is success, right wing nutjob, then what does FAILURE look like?

Incidentally, 'Liars'...as to your assertion that govt spending can't help the economy? WRONG. Here...try this from the MSNBC website:

the economy grew at a snails pace in 1Q12. Why? REDUCED GOVERNMENT SPENDING!

Golly. The right wing has fairy tales, myth and theology. NO FACTS!

Bob,

You're anti Bush, anti Republican, anti rich guy rhetoric is getting old. There is more than enough blame to go around here. The phrase " There is never too much of a good thing " was applied to the Irish economy when the phrase " Everything in moderation " should have been practiced. Now, that is their's and our road out of the mess we are in. Rein in the extremes. Profiteers or dependents. Focus on creating local economies first and expand from there.

The rhetoric will stop being old, and TOLD, when right wing ideology stops being the stuff of the brothers Grimm. This idea that the middle class caused this debacle, while heroic Wall Street bankers are saving civilization is as fresh as yesterday's new. Paul Ryan is still in Congress, or have you forgotten? The most liberal Republican is to the right of the most conservative Democrat. So read Ornstein and Mann's recent BIPARTISAN article on how the far right is wrecking America, then c'mon back.

I like to point out the fact that Germany is a "socialism" country with a policy of having a labor representative at the top of each company to control them from practicing "crony capitalist". Yes, the same one that cause all this crisis in the first place.

There is even a quote from the article saying "bail out" for big banks is what cause Ireland problem in the first place, the same thing happened to Greek.

To the right, anything that doesn't benefit the rich is 'socialism'. We just had the biggest bailout of the rich in history and the right says...nothing. But let the MIDDLE CLASS start to protest about getting screwed by the right, that's 'socialism'. Notice how they say NOTHING about how the middle class gets screwed with all this 'austerity' nonsense. The right wing policy for America: destroy the middle class to prove how much god loves the rich

Bob,

And to the left, far left like you, everything associated with republicans or the right wing benefits only the rich. You throw around the term middle class a lot. Can you define the term? My bet is that it is similar to the term working class. They are both used to describe people like you. The rich is a term used to describe anyone who makes a dollar more than you do and you believe none of them worked to get it or to keep it. Meanwhile, your leaders practice the same behaviors privately that you and they denounce and despise publically. You need to check your rhetoric. You sound like some bitter, jealous, ideolog who's beliefs have been disproved and you're about to lose power. Oh, wait a second, that's going to happen in November!!

Shifting gears...when you stop speaking in generalities and get to specifics, let me know. Yeah I'm middle class. I make about $100K. That puts me in about the 25% percentile in the US. And hell yes, I'm bitter. I'm tired of America's right wing telling the middle class we're a piggy bank for the rich, and that we should be proud of that!

Right Wing, Left Wing blah blah. Both want to cater to the 'instant' demands of today at the expense of tomorrow. Face facts, the left wants your money every bit as bad as the right.

Don't say

"We just had the biggest bailout of the rich in history"

That's an insane thing to say when all everyone, EVERYONE wanted was to get the economy going again. Unions of middle class and executives with a need to keep the company working. We are a team. If you want to get rich then get out and do something about it instead of looking for a hand out from your RICH Uncle Sam.

He thinks Ireland is a socialist state! The right knows zip about Europe or economics at all. Ireland was a country that cut taxes on business, on the rich, provide incentives for businesses to locate there, cut benefits, etc. A nice, capitalist, conservative approach. How'd that work out? The right can't deal with the fact unregulated free market capitalism is a disaster. So they make up fairy tales about how it's socialism not to screw the middle class.

Only in a Dictatorship are your comments true Sonya. In a democracy or republic the people vote for the leaders. So as long as the leaders pander to the voters - promise them more and more benefits paid for by the taxes collected the voters will continue to vote them in. So when all those honest hardworking people start looking at what the leaders are spending their money on and vote them out will it change.

No Bank made any person or government to take a loan. They don't call you up today and say you just borrowed $1 and here's the interest rate. Somebody or Government calls them up and says we need your money. It takes 2 to make a loan.

Don in MO

True on it takes two for the loan! But the countries debts are made by the countries leaders that allowed it, whether a dictatorship or a democracy or a republic. A leader can choose whether to borrow for the country or not to borrow. The credit rating agencies can significantly affect the interest rates on that borrowed money. Oh, and I keep seeing how much my government says I owe as a citizen on the national debt clock, money that I never borrowed or asked my government to borrow.

Did you or any of your friends want our leaders to borrow money like this?

Just my opinion.

True Sonya

I didn't ask them to borrow the money and then again I didn't vote for this bunch that have run up more than $4T in debt in less than 4 years - so regardless I'm obligated as a citizen to pay my share. I don't like the fact that many of the ones that pay absolutely nothing think that they shouldn't have to reduce what they receive or pay a little bit in taxes but think it's just fine to tell me that I should pay more.

So my recourse is to discuss it here, vote the current bums out and give someone else a chance to bring hope and change to this situation.

IMHO

Have a great day!

If a country can't manage it's own finances it must bow to those that can. That's goes for the USA also. We're just a few years behind.