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Alessandro Bianchi / Reuters file
Paolo Gabriele, Pope Benedict XVI's butler, is accused of leaking documents alleging Vatican corruption, but new documents published Sunday— after his arrest last month — suggest he may be a scapegoat.
Pope Benedict XVI's butler, who is under arrest for allegedly leaking confidential Vatican documents, is just a scapegoat, according to the source of new secret documents published Sunday by the Italian newspaper La Repubblica.
The butler, Paolo Gabriele, 45, remains in a Vatican jail cell on charges of aggravated theft for possessing confidential correspondence. Publication of the new documents Sunday — which La Repubblica said it had received from an unknown person after Gabriele's arrest on May 25 — would strongly indicate that Gabriele wasn't the only person with access to the secret correspondence of the Roman Catholic Church.
 M. Alex Johnson is a reporter for msnbc.com. Follow him on Twitter and Facebook. |
The documents lay bare the political machinations among cardinals posted to the Vatican, suggesting an administration riven by infighting over which Benedict, 85, has — or chooses to exercise — little authority.
In a letter accompanying the three new documents, the shadowy provider calls Gabriele "the usual scapegoat" and says his or her intention is to "drive out the real culprits from the Vatican," whom the letter identifies as Msgr. Georg Gaenswein, Benedict's personal secretary, and Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, his secretary of state.
The source warns that the new papers are just "three of the hundreds of documents in our possession" that could be damaging to the Vatican.
The documents published Sunday include two written on Gaenswein's personal letterhead. The text, however, had been whited out — a step the source said he or she had taken to protect the pope. In the accompanying cover letter, the source says the documents prove that Benedict is being served by an "inept staff."
Gaenswein has greatly increased his influence in the Vatican in recent years, according to La Republicca, and is one of the pope's closest confidants. The letters, if authenticated, could suggest that even the most sensitive Vatican documents have been compromised.
The third document is a letter to Bertone from Cardinal Raymond Leo Burke, an American who is head of the Supreme Tribunal of the Apostolic Signatura — in essence, the Vatican's chief justice.
It is marked "highly confidential" and registers Burke's dismay that Benedict had approved the liturgy of a controversial lay group known as the NeoCatechumenal Way, which its critics contend violates the prescribed protocol for the Catholic Mass.
"I believe that approval of such liturgical innovations ... does not seem consistent with the liturgical teachings of the Pope," Burke wrote.
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Leave a Comment:
What the point of leaking thedocuments is ishardto understand,because poes are not up for election and are unlikey t be removed. Yes,there are divisions withing-who wouldn't ecxpect that in a huge organation? And you cannot root out corruption without damaging an organzation-so white outs and stuff are follish non sense. You cannot protect bad decsions-yo can only migatate the cesequnces.
The leakers are a naive bunch.
where in the world did you learn your English? Outer Mongolia?
I am glad they are leaked - the darn place needs to be cleaned from top to bottom.
Ummmm ... No ... You're misinterpreting how it works. Maybe a more familiar example will help.
During the ascendency of Bush the Lesser, power was split between Cheney the Dark and Powell the Hero. Frustrated by his inability to wield absolute power, Cheney the Dark arranged affairs to force Powell the Hero to speak many lies, lest he lose his place at the foot of the throne of Bush the Lesser, knowing that in due time the lies could be exposed to the ruination of Powell the Hero.
And so it came to pass. This is why Powell the Hero is now known as Powell the Stupid.
---------
The Pope is just a dotty old guy in a dress. The Cardinals run things and they're out there cutting each other's throats for power.
The Pope Vicor of Christ the leader of the Catholic chruch should live an open book the Devil Satan is king of confussion what shame to see that priests including the pope would have anything to hide from anyone in the eyes of GOD nothing is hidden all willl be revieled in the end do these peoples realy know Christ have they realy recieved a calling to preach anything ? or are they all simply there for the showing of the robes and the golds god forgive them !
instead of chasing some silly papers, unless of course it was the list of priests that are child molesters, SECRET papers of the church... seems more dictatorial everyday,, and they should lose there exempt status.... This pope has done more damage to the church than most popes in the past..he really is a NAZI dictator
I think we all knew this. Those in power will always use scapegoats.
Couldn't be happening to a nicer bunch of guys. LMAO
And the plot thicken. Pope and Bishop tried to topple governments and control others countries for thousands of years. This is business as usual for them.
they run a world wide empire of close to 1 billion people, they have major holdings and investments in every country on the planet, they are governing by human beings with human fallacy's, what is the big deal, of course there will be infighting, show me one country, one large corporation, any government that does not have infighting, that is the nature of politics.
Just a bunch of power hungry old men as out of touch with today's world as they were in Galileo's time.
The ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH - needs a new HOUSE KEEPER!
Because the a$$hls are NOT cleaning it themselves!
GOD BLESS my ASS
You're right saxon, they are run like any other corporation and are allowed to continue to build their empire without being required to contribute their fair share to the populace (tax exemption) or answer to any world court.
A perfect recipe for pure, unstoppable evil.
@Todd Cooganvia ....really dude??was that a serious post?? cause if it was you need help....
Porter Rockwell at #1.2:
AWESOME POST!!
Sorry if that comment offended anybody...
but...
I think the real story here should be, THE POPE HAS A BUTLER?!?
What's next, does he have a personal chef, maids, and other 'assistants' as well? (What a silly question.)
So much for living the humble life of God. What was that story about the camel and the eye of a needle again?
Yes, Dr. Cat, the pope has all that and more. Matter of fact, some of the popes had many "maids" and I would assume that applies to the rest of the bunch (cardinals, bishops, etc.) as well. Humility and poverty only applies to the ignorami who support them.
Yeah, I was just being sarcastic and snarky.
maybe if the folks who are 'leaking' info get enough info out there it will open up the eyes of the 'faithful' -- then again maybe not.... after all the stories about what the CC is doing the sheep continue to follow blindly.... and keep getting sheared.... the poor folks keep putting their money in the collection plate are funding the bad behavior....
GOP Scotus said " Corporation is People" The idea is to Screw-up the Middle Class to bears all the Private Corporation debt.
LEAKING 16 TRILLION SECRET BAILOUTS, THEY DON'T WANT TO REVEAL
The list of institutions that received the most money from the Federal Reserve can be found on page 131 of the GAO Audit and are as follows Bailouts..
Socialism in America at it's Best !
Citigroup: $2.5 trillion ($2,500,000,000,000)
Morgan Stanley: $2.04 trillion ($2,040,000,000,000)
Merrill Lynch: $1.949 trillion ($1,949,000,000,000)
Bank of America: $1.344 trillion ($1,344,000,000,000)
Barclays PLC (United Kingdom): $868 billion ($868,000,000,000)
Bear Sterns: $853 billion ($853,000,000,000)
Goldman Sachs: $814 billion ($814,000,000,000)
Royal Bank of Scotland (UK): $541 billion ($541,000,000,000)
JP Morgan Chase: $391 billion ($391,000,000,000)
Deutsche Bank (Germany): $354 billion ($354,000,000,000)
UBS (Switzerland): $287 billion ($287,000,000,000)
Credit Suisse (Switzerland): $262 billion ($262,000,000,000)
Lehman Brothers: $183 billion ($183,000,000,000)
Bank of Scotland (United Kingdom): $181 billion ($181,000,000,000)
BNP Paribas (France): $175 billion ($175,000,000,000)
and many many more including banks in Belgium of all places
View the 266-page GAO audit of the Federal Reserve(July 21st, 2011): http://www.scribd.com/doc/60553686/GAO-Fed-Investigation">http://www.scribd.com/doc/60553686/GAO-Fed-Investigation">http://www.scribd.com/doc/60553686/GAO-Fed-Investigation">http://www.scribd.com/doc/60553686/GAO-Fed-Investigation">http://www.scribd.com/doc/60553686/GAO-Fed-Investigation">http://www.scribd.com/doc/60553686/GAO-Fed-InvestigationHYPERLINKhttp://www.scribd.com/doc/60553686/GAO-Fed-Investigation">http://www.scribd.com/doc/60553686/GAO-Fed-Investigation
Source: http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-11-696">http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-11-696">http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-11-696">http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-11-696">http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-11-696">http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-11-696HYPERLINKhttp://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-11-696">http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-11-696
I think we all know that "the real culprits from the Vatican," are not the butlers. Talk about an organization rife w/ corruption and deceit. Don't get me wrong, there are some wonderful people trying to do good in the catholic church; they are the ones who aren't vying for power and engaging in cover ups (or molestation).
they need to be completely exposed, let it all out and spread out those riches to all those they stole from
Is it just me, or have they not released the contents of these leaked documents to the public yet? Come on! Stop talking about the documents and show them to the public already!
I want to read these "leaked" documents! I want to see what's in them. Give us the juicy details and stop giving us bland vaguarities!
The US nuns, who the Pope is busy criticizing when he's not imprisoning his butler, need support.
THEY are the people who run hospitals, soup kitchens, shelters, foster homes for neglected , abused, and abandoned children, sliding scale clinics, etc., while the priests- yeah, well, we all know what THEY do...
Learn more at:
http://www.facebook.com/SupportOurCatholicSisters#%21/SupportOurCatholicSisters
Wait a minute! The Pope is infallible! All devout Catholics believe this because that's what they are told. How can he be involved in scandal and corruption? No way! This can't be. Otherwise, followers of the Roman Catholic church would be simple dupes, and gullible tools. Now, that can't be true. Can it?
There may be some good people doing God's work in the RC Church, but top levels of the hierarchy are obviously not among them.
Good informative article, details at five. One document did suggest a secret neonut group or something like that.
"It is marked "highly confidential" and registers Burke's dismay that Benedict had approved the liturgy of a controversial lay group known as the NeoCatechumenal Way, which its critics contend violates the prescribed protocol for the Catholic Mass".
What ever that means it don't sound good.
The nuns of the Catholic church should through the bums out. It's the only chance to save what is one of the biggest human treasures the world has to offer. These woman have giving up their lives to help others. Through the years. Course they may have taken down a few civilizations in the process.
Save the Nuns. Kick the dorky men in dress out.
If these are the kinds of crooks that will be in heaven I hope that I do not end up there,said by one Native American Chief that was about be hanged.
This organization is a sham, it's basically just organized crime. They keep secrets, take money from the devout, and cover up crimes agains young boys carried out by their people. It stinks. It amazes me that these clowns are still respected by anyone in 2012. How naive can people really be to back these guys up and listen to what they have to say? Ridiculous.
Even Pope's butler can't speak the truth!
Jail for speaking the truth! Is Pope running some stinking and sinking empire or religious order?
Does anyone else find it ironic that he is in a JAIL in the Vatican ?
WWJJD ? Wut would jesus jail do ?
It's not a jail. It is a "penance room".
This is the same group of sinners that jailed Gallio and any other scientist that tried to educate the people,the exist on the ignorance of the people.
These people are more of a threat than the muslims will ever be to all man kind.
I wonder if we can call him "Deep Throat"? Or has that alias been taken by the alter boy?
*Cringes, but with wry admiration*
Stonepipe - this is a sick attack on our Pope - shame on you - you would not say something this awful about Allah would you? Sure there were a few bad applies in the church and the church has done all in its power to punish those - there are bad applies in every denomination but you and the media prefer to call out the Catholic Church rather than any other religions - why - because you are anti-catholic - you will face God some day and I hope you will have an answer for HIM for this terrible insult against the Pope - shame on you and everyone who thinks like you - this story is apparently another attack on Catholics and spear headed by this Administration who is heatedly anti-catholic and anti christian and pro-muslim. Just remember - there is a God and you will face him immediately upon death - you won't be such a smart alek then.
Meeche: If there is a God, I'd hope that He/She/It would be far, far, FAR more interested in punishing the pedophiles who hid in the ranks of the priesthood and ruined hundreds of lives by molesting children in His/Her/Its name, than it would be in punishing those who go online to make a joke at the expense of said perverts.
Stonepipe.....you are sick! Get some help or adjust your sense of humor. Not EVEN funny!
Spartan.....God will have time to judge ALL. Not just those you or I prefer.
Ooooo ... I'm scared!!
Meeche-942560,
You really need to do some research. The Catholic Church has been responsible for most of the wars and deaths in major historic events. They are always sticking their noses in political crap and it never ends up well.
I don't belong to any religion, I believe in the way Native Americans believe and I was raised in Venezuela (a Catholic country) and I have never been happier. My life is so much better and full of positive things. I don't have to worry about going to church once a week and have people critiquing and talking about my clothes and getting in my business. Christianity is a recent and new thing, you have to do your homework and you will see that ancient civilizations were here thousands of years before Christianity.
How can you believe in a book written by men? That's right! The Bible was written by men not GOD. The pope is no one, he's just a man, don't Catholics punish you for adoring false gods? Well, this is kind of contradicting, Don't you think?
Wait untill you are 75 or so.....you will be scared!
LMAO! Good one Stonepipe.....
topple down. i wanna see it all burn.
Meeche-942560
((What do they put in those crackers?!!)) The church has done ALL IT COULD TO COVER UP and PROTECT PEDOPHILES in the ranks. Sheeesh! You will face God one day and have to explain how you could believe that any God could be so vile as claimed by Christians....maybe a 1000 yrs of purgatory awaits you. How could you defend this evil empire?
The Catholic Church is the biggest con perpetrated on mankind in human history. Corrupt beyond belief, even to this day.
Apparently, none of the people rising to the defense of this elephantine bureaucracy have ever read the first bit of history, in that there have been married popes, popes with multiple illegitimate children, popes who have committed murder, who have condoned and even ordered kidnappings, popes who have been (by modern definitions) war criminals, and popes who were nothing more than puppets of royalty. In fact, one pope who fits almost all of these descriptions comes to mind, Clement V. Others, notably Alexander VI and Boniface VII were political appointees, intended to align the church with the secular power of various corrupt kings and emperors, thus increasing the power wielded by those corrupt kings and emperors. Read your history folks, and not the kind that was written to perpetuate this dark con of man.
It never ceases to amaze me that some people insist on talking about, and to, an invisible magical "man in the sky" and then demand that I do the same. They somehow think they have both the authority and power to proclaim me to be lesser than they, and state that I am actually the one who is misguided.
Where I come from, if you talk to invisible people, and ascribe magical powers to them, you get a nice white coat with very long sleeves, and a bedroom with rubber wallpaper.
Blame this on the Obama administration.... ? You nuts give him a lot more credit than he deserves.
Meeche, this magic sky god being you are imagining does not exist.
ALL religions have ONE thing in common. They are all figments of man's imagination. Why? Show me one person who has irrefutable evidence in a supreme being whom he has physically talked to. That there MAY be a supreme being is up to each in his own way, but to have humans born of flesh (sin to some) say there's is the way is simply playing on the fears of under educated souls who can be led around by the nose. After all look what happened to Germany prior to WW2 and during the war (as the present pope knows full well). That said there is absolutely no reason that all man made religion should not be taxed as any other for profit company. At least in the United States 30% of their ill gotten gains will be put to good use perhaps by paying off our national debt.
So help me between the Repteallians, the Vatican, The dissolution of the world economy, and the just plain stupidity I am seriously thinking the Mayan Calendar may be right on target. Think about it!
Fuel- Meeche doesn't have to worry about purgatory, surely Meeche's family will pay LOTS of money to the church to ensure entry to Heaven. LOL
Mom101- Thank you for your info! So true. Meeche must not do much research. Wasn't the pope supportive of Hitler during the Holocaust? Just one example to go along with that comment.
"Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.”
(Bob Dylan)
Well said........
just remember this...how many of our wonderfully symbiotic posters tonight..whom don't have enough warmth in their bodies to barely keep them selves alive..how many of you would agree to be beaten to a bloody pulp..walk 1.5 miles with a tree weighing 300 lb..have your hands and feet rail road spiked to the tree..to save billions of peoples lives from satins hand...and while hanging on the cross bleeding to death in extraordinary pain..have the mercy and love to forgive those people..the catholic church was built by Jesus on peter the first pope over 2000 years ago and Jesus said not even the gates of hell are strong enough to hold the truth away...my friends only a fool would swim away from the only raft in a shark and snake infested water just to prove an extremely ego based point..
the Butler represents the occupy/Communist/Marxist/ movement which says you need the government it wants you completely and utterly dependent upon it...and the catholic church and pope represents the conservative message..give to Cesar what is Cesar's ..and give to god what is gods...god asks for you to love your neighbour..give to the poor..and believe in a power greater than your self(god) ..the butler was angry because he did not get what he thought he should have relieved in the way of promotion..and since the Vatican is its own nation which dose not ask for or receive any assistance from any government ..it has the rights to have its own set of laws..and this Butler broke the law..he has a classified position and took an oath not unlike the vice president of the united states..could you imagine if mr bidden said things that put obama in a bad or sensitive position ...he would be fired to ...right?...well maybe not..the catholic church did not pick any fight with this government(obama) but it cannot sit idly by while obama trys to force catholics to except contraception which is the same as abortion in the catholic eyes..this is against the churches moral doctrine and cannon law...and when the occupy movement agrees to by lunch for every C.E.O and 1%er in this country and pay for it..which will never happen as it is against thier ideology....so how dose it feel to be on your own like a complete unknown..like a rolling stone...how dose it feel when they realize your not really where its at..like Napoleon and his poet cat..
Richard:
But if you happen to work for an employer who happens to be a Jehovah Witness, would it then be OK that your insurance will specifically exclude vaccines, blood transfusion and organ transplants? It's the same as requiring a business (hospital or school) owned by a catholic employer to buy insurance that covers all medical services.
There are none so blind ... etc. Am wondering how many lira the butler was paid to "take the fall". The church ... not only the catholic end of it ... is so corrupt that it is pitiful. I live in a
Third World Country" were the church holds as much power and influence as the narcotraficantes. More than the Central Government. The difference now is that the younger generation are questioning this "myth of divine creation ... virgen birth nonsense ... other bibilical crap ... etc. Church attendance has dropped astronomically among the young which leaves the older and disappearing generation to perpetutate the myth.
Wow,
Where to begin with that nonsensical run on mumbling of a madman?
I don't think I will even try, crawl back under your rock!
All Christians are NOT catholic. The catholic hierarchy does NOT represent all Christians. Many have chosen to follow Christ on a simpler, loving road.
So, Jesus died on the cross, so that 2000 years later a bunch of powerful men could, acting in His name, amass great wealth in the name of "His people", shaking people down for it by tellling them that their fate in the next life would be determined in large manner by what they gave in the present one. They maintain vast secular holdings and considerable secular political power, but are uniquely qualified to state definitively who is in a state of grace with Him and who is damned, and claim lives of complete holiness, piety and celibacy while practicing the greatest possible perversion, or at the least covering up for those who have. And say that it is all God's will. I'm willing to bet that it's not. I'll stake my soul on it, as a matter of fact -- if those creeps are God's only true representatives, then He is a creep Himself and spending eternity in His "heaven" would still be a form of hell. If that's the religion of a simple carpenter of Galilee, then I'm the next Queen of England.
"Masters Of War"
Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build all the bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks.
You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly.
Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain.
You fasten all the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion'
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud.
You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins.
How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
That even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do.
Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good?
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could?
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul.
And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand over your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead.
... Aloha means: Hello, I Love You, Goodbye
please try to keep that in mind
Religion is poison...Like Jesus should of done, remain a great unknown...
P.S. The vatican has a jail?
Wow. The ability of some posters (mostly Richard above) to somehow to blame President Obama for the problems within the Catholic Church hierarchy in Rome just boggles my mind.
Well, that's just a mythical cult story. And, besides, it's good to know that these people in the Pedophile Catholic Cult are still up to their tricks - committing crimes, and blaming others for it.
What else is new with the Pedophiles?
Pope and his inner circle of Cardinals are supposed to be or act as moral guardians in the world. They lecture on almost all topics on earth!
Many a times, they scream that their Catholic religious order is the best!
But still they themselves lack morals!
If some brings out facts, jail for him!
Of course the butler is a scapegoat! The Religion Business - no matter the religion - is only a matter of belief!
snakeoil salesmen and their suckers
Dear AnIndividual: You make us conclude that you'd been convinced that your ancestors were
just simply brainles bacteria which naturally deprives any human to even imagine that there is
even a possibility of a Being superior to yourself. You are right that there are religious scams and
many indeed, but a belief that precludes a Creator Who gifted us with the freedom to think and
choose, also precludes that such capable, perceptive gift will call for a logical, armonious, orderly,
intellectual conclusion. By the way, which conviction would make you more proud: being the product
of an Intelligent, Mighty Creator or of a mishap, an accident or what would you call it...? Monkeys are
forever monkeys, but humans, well, we can choose to see we are a special, superior creation or, if it
makes one happy, just the relative of a monkey. Feel free to take your pick, monkeys could not.-
I can believe in a Creator while totally discounting the idea that these robed buffoons have any connection to any possible path to Him, and state that I believe them to be more of an impediment to a true relationship with Him or my fellows. They have taken the message of a social rebel and made it into a sledgehammer with which to beat in sumbmission and conformity any and all who would dare question them. I do believe them to be unevolved in their social conduct, apes in long flowing robes teaching things that the intelligent questioned even in the Dark Ages and nearly all people with education and a inquisitive temperament have now doubted for hundreds of years. Rather than answer these questions, they took the easy way out and condemned all who were not dedicated to their way as God's only true one as being heretics and heathens.
Rlquall: I believe the same as you, that we do have a Creator.
What terrifies me is what the bible states: "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness” (Genesis 1:26).
Considering our lust for war, greed, evil and pain, it's a very scary thought.
That's a nice belief. Sometimes it's even pretty and sparkly.
But in thousands of years, and throughout the lifetime of over 3000 cults and cult beleifs on this planet (including christianity and the other BuyBull cults) -- not one of them has ever provided a shred of evidence that their cult's divine claims were real or provable, or that any god (let alone their god) exists.
yes, i already know the screeching reply: "well, that doesn't mean he DOESN'T exist..."
or the illogical reply: "you can't disprove my never-proven claim that God exists..."
Same can be said of other extraordinary claims -- like leprechauns, for example. I can't prove that leprechauns don't exist. but it doesn't mean they do, or that we must operate within the "default belief" that they exist, just because the extraordinary claim of their existence cannot be disproven...
That one makes me laugh, actually. this god creature creates man, but then only creates woman later (out of man's rib) as an afterthought. Kinda funny -- the ability to mate and procreate was an afterthought, for a god that is all-knowing and all-seeing -- and even better, all time, the beginning and ending. For a god who is all time, it's odd that man and woman were not created together for each other, at the same time, knowing all along that was the "design"... (oops) The BuyBull is the most silly, illogical goddam cult book ever written. The singlemost and greatest practical joke ever played upon mankind.
and the bible was written by man, the same mentality of man that is now running the catholic church, the same mentality that calls themselves christian, the same mentality of the idiots who preach that the bible is the word of god...
Frogmorton!: I never claimed I believed our creator was some divine, spiritual entity; nor do I believe humanity as we know it, began as an amoeba.
Considering the odds and number of planets, stars and universes, we cannot be the only intelligent life in existence. We're just newborn babes in the woods.
Frogmorton!, actually there was a woman created at the same time as Adam. She is generally referred to as "Lilleth", although I don't recall any name given to her in the Bible. She was expelled from Eden and after a time, Eve was formed from Adam's rib to keep him company.
For some religion is a business.
Religion is opium of masses.
In limited doses, religion may not be bad.
Debi,
To answer your question regarding the Image of God in man, I must point out that according to the Bible, it is a far cry from God's original creation as related in Genesis 2. In Genesis 3, you had the Fall of Man narrated, which marred the image of God in all of us, and it therefore bears little resemblance to what it once was.
The results of the fall were immediate. Fellowship or direct contact with man and his creator was lost. The man and his wife according to Genesis 3:8 ran and hid from God out of fear when he came to visit with them that day. According to John in I John 4:18, fear is the absence of love; so at the fall, love, which I believe to be a part of the image of God that is still there in each of us, is now misdirected. Instead of being directed to our Creator and fellow man as Jesus instructed us, we now love money, power and pleasure.
Another thing too, is that according to Genesis 3:7, the man and his wife hid themselves from each other, so true intimacy with each other was also lost. Man lost his God-consciousness and gained self-consciousness instead.
And finally, if you look at Genesis 3:12-13, the age-old game "pass the buck" begins. The man blames the woman for his sin, and the woman in turn blames the devil. Does that happen today? Naw! We all know that we assume personal responsibility for our actions, don't we?
Whether you accept a literal account of Genesis 3 or not, I think if you read through it, you will see a lot that explains the human condition today.
This "passing the buck" is very much in evidence in our story above. They're calling the butler a "scapegoat"; in other words, it's his fault there are leaked documents. The church did nothing wrong and so has nothing to hide doesn't it? They won't find anything incriminating in those documents will they?
Seriously, I've documented enough Biblical truth to show that there are some serious theological problems in the Roman Catholic Church. The very idea of having priests and the Mass, which the Catholic Church uses to control their members are contrary to biblical doctrine.
Here's another point: The writer of Hebrews wrote.
"God who at sundry times and divers manners spoke in times past unto the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, Whom He has appointed heir of all things, through Whom, He also made the worlds" Hebrews 1:1-2
The inspired writer makes the observation that in the past, God used the prophets to speak to His people. Not so, in this day and age; He now speaks to us by the Son. In other words, we don't need priests and popes to speak to us. We don't need prophets either, such as Mohommad or Joseph Smith; prophets such as these were only for Old Testament times. Why listen to a prophet or pope when you can listen to the Son? Why be short-changed?
Jesus said, "By their fruits you will know them" (Mt 7:16, 20). I'm sure that has been quoted a lot with reference to the good that the nuns and others have been doing to show that they are from God, but actually, if you look at that passage in context, Jesus is talking about false prophets. There are two kinds of fruit that will allow you to see that they are indeed false prophets, and these are the fruits of doctrine and lifestyle.
I've documented enough the false doctrine in the RC Church already in some of my previous postings with these stories recently published about it. And one can see from the very fact that the church wants to cover things up here, that all is not right with their lifestyle either. And of course as many have pointed out the sordid stories of what popes have done in the last 1000 years and the priestly molestations and subsequent cover-ups as further evidence of this fact. The Roman Catholic church is definitely NOT God's one and only church and means of salvation to the world. It is made up of human leaders, clergy and members. This is only too obvious for anyone who is willing to step back and put it to the test as the Apostle Paul instructs us to do in I Thessalonians 5:21. So, why get uptight about it and feel threatened by it?
I see a lot of bitterness on the part of many posters toward the church and organized religion. My point as always is, don't give up on Jesus just because of the human frailties of its leaders.
AjahnCliff: Thank you for your response, which leads me to an even more terrifying question. Since our Creator knew from the very beginning mankind was "damaged", why leave us here to populate the earth with pain and suffering? It's hard to believe that decision is coming from a position of love and not sadism. What is His purpose?
Debi,
His purpose is to gather for Himself a people who would CHOOSE to love Him and follow Him and not the things of this fallen world with its perverted sense of right and wrong (even in churches as seen in these news stories), or our own fleshly desires. For there to be true love, it must be a love BY CHOICE. Love from a bunch of robots is meaningless. We are still fallen creatures, but with Jesus as our Savior and model, we can still move toward maturity as He intended. Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2), we can do this, and develop the Fruit of the Spirit in our lives (Galatians 5:22-23), which is the very character and image of the Lord Jesus Christ. That is what God wants and looks for in us.
AjahnCliff: Love is love, no matter where it comes; unless you have an ego and there are conditions placed. Supposedly our Creator is above human weaknesses and frailties, so why the need for a challenge?
It appears life was intended as someone else's game. It is very difficult to love your creator when he's in control of the game and you've been dealt terrible cards.
Debi,
Without going into an on-line counseling session, it sounds like you have a lot of deep hurts in your life. Without knowing your situation all I can say is that while I've probably had it better than a lot of others, one of the most hurtful things I endured in my early life was the untimely death of my mother due to breast cancer. It happened right after I graduated from high school, and since that was at such a critical juncture of my life, it set in motion the circumstances in my life that have brought me to where I am today. If my mother had lived, I most likely would have never served in the armed forces of our nation, never would have gone to Bible college and never would have received the call to the mission field where I am today. Sometimes it is so hard to say with Jesus, "Not my will, but thine be done", but then you can also say with the Apostle Paul, "We know that all things work together for good to them that love God and are called according to his purpose". (Romans 8:28)
Speaking of being dealt terrible cards, perhaps nobody could say that more than of Jesus Himself. He only preached love, sacrifice and obedience to God, and love for fellow man and he winds up with the worst possible death imaginable. And it didn't stop there for His early followers. Paul and James were beheaded, Stephen was stoned, Peter was crucified upside down according to church tradition. Others were burned at the stake, such as Polycarp. That continued on down through the annals of church history, most notabley during the 16th century to the early church reformers, at the hands of none other than the Roman Catholic church, the subject of our story above. It doesn't end there; it continues down to the present day. In persecuted countries such as the communist and muslim worlds, you're libel to lose you job, get imprisoned and/or tortured and in certain countries even lose your life - all because you simply make the decision to follow Jesus. Can God prevent such atrocities from happening? Certainly He can. But He chooses to allow it to demonstrate to this disbelieving world that the love and devotion of His followers knows no bounds.
One thing you might want to check out on this subject is the anabaptist movement. The anabaptists were persecuted probably the most of the different strains which appeared during the Protestant reformation. They were persecuted even by fellow protestants. For a class on Church History I took, we had to read a short essay by Menno Simons, whose movement continues on today in the modern day Mennonites. I read the essay wound up with the utmost respect for him and his movement, because he embodied the very pacifistic ideals Jesus Himself espoused in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7). It continues today. When that maniac massacred 5 Amish schoolgirls back in 2006, the community came on record that they had forgiven the man who gunned down their children in cold blood. When I read that, I said to myself, "I hope that some muslims are reading this". If it had happened to them, their rage, hatred and thirst for revenge would be indescribable. But it is a sign to all, that the message of love and forgiveness that Jesus gave us is still alive and well; as it was in the first century, so it is applicable in the 21st as well.
One other thing, Debi: If you truly feel that God and life have given you a raw deal, pray about things and ask Him to reveal His purpose in what has happened to you. It won't happen overnight. It took me a number of years before I could see His purpose in the loss of my mother. But whatever happens, don't give in to bitterness. It will eat away at your soul. Instead let His love minister to you. He will give it if you ask Him. I wish all the best for you as you seek for answers in your life.
AjahnCliff: Thank you for your kind words and all the best to you, too.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Well, the Pope just cast a bunch of stones at nuns for feeding the poor and healing the sick too much! Let he who is without homophobia cast the next stone.
Yeah! Yeah!! ... How many golden goblets does feeding the poor buy?
(Stupid women anyway! Grumble, grumble ...)
Muse
That was my point. The Pope has no business casting stones at anyone and saying "He did it". Passing crap off onto the butler.
and just where do you think that should begin.. should it be top down, cause theirs are the biggest sins, and then work it's way down
Why do people keep using this phrase because that is exactly what Christians are constantly doing, Judging others
The pontif is a former Nazi commie sympathizer.
The Catholick church is a scam anyways. Raking in billions, while raping the innocent, then paying millions in lawsuits, all the while not having to divulge anything to authorities because churches are protected by laws. The pope is the biggest hypocrite in the world, along with the sheep that follow.
Religions divide, segregate and enslave the flocks. Religions = Conformity. Conformity = Stupidity. Stupidity = Religion. Religions are flawed because men who created them are extremely flawed.
"Former Nazi youth, now old man Pope, wearing J.K. Rowling inspired couture, throws photogenic butler in a dungeon in a desperate attempt to conceal the devious inner workings of a corrupt organization"-
this would almost be funny if it weren't for the millions who go without necessities while putting pennies in the collection plate for Vatican luxury, the thousands who have been raped by Pope's minions, etc. etc., etc.,
The Catholic Church is and always has been a witches brew of duplicity and manipulation of both men as well as fact and faith. "Anything goes" if serves the interests of The Church - be it is covering up by aiding and abetting pedophiles in their gleeful activity of raping little boys - so that The Church doesn't suffer any bad press or basically any other horrid, heinous act humans might contemplate have been done and will be again in the future as circumstances necessitate for "the good" of The Church.
The only thing in doubt that is amazing is how such a monstrous monolith to untruth - and even depravity - can still hold sway over the minds and hearts of so many people; still find people who can even now still foolishly consider it as having any connection now - or in the past - to the true teachings of Christ or God.
THAT is the thing to be surprised about.
Great! I think the Pope need to worry about those in the Vatican instead of berating the good religious
women in America. It would be different if the Sisters and Nuns actually got paid for the work that they
do. They barely have enough to live on and they must work at paying jobs until they are not longer able.
Some Sisters are in their 70's and having to apply for jobs here and there to help their community and
the last thing any of them need individually or as a group is criticism from the "High Mucky-Mucks" of the Catholic Church!
Brava to you. Religious women--for all the stereotypes of stern nuns beating kids with rulers--are serving their God and their fellow humans more than most of the RC hierarchy...and more than most of the big bloviating Prots, too.
Do nuns and priests get social security when they retire? Do they pay into social security?
IMHO -- no, there is an exception for all "professional religious" who chose to avail themselves of it, including Protestant clergy and other religious professionals, even those who never explicity took a vow of poverty. To make this exception available only to Catholic vocations would violate the First Amendment.
They do not pay into social security so they do not receive it. The church has retirement homes for priest and nuns. Since they take vows of poverty they have very little money. So if a priest or nun gets fired they leave the church with practically nothing. This happened in my hometown just a few years ago. An outspoken nun was made scapegoat and fired. I grew up Catholic but people wonder why I am an atheist now. I have to ask them why they are not atheist yet with all this crap that goes on in all churches around the world.
What ever happened to the "Truth Shall Set You Free". Damaging duh.....No kidding.....Put the poor butler in jail and sweep Pedophiles under the rug. If you donate to this Organization knowing all of this then you condone these actions, period!
People still do. Drive by a catholic church on sunday and you'll see plenty of cars in the parking lot. I'm a former victim of the RCC and I never recieved a penny of compensation from them. I'm inflicted with DID and I have severe PTSD because of what they had done to me. The RCC had destroyed and whitewashed all of the evidence regarding my case including corrupting the Norton, Massachusetts police department into destroying their criminal investigation records. In the back of my mind I dream about going to the archdiocese in my state with a weapon and blow the brains out of every priest that I can find and afterwards surrender to the police so that I can have a trial and tell my story. It's only a dream though, I'm not going to jail because of a cult that practices pedophilia in order to control fragmented human minds.
Sorry to hear that, Diss. I have two friends in that same boat. the filthy Pedophile Catholic Cult should be dispensed, and then all its assets sold off, with the proceeds going to ALL its victims.
The Vatican has a jail, and puts people in it for leaking the Pope's secrets? What else do they put people in their jail for? Using birth control? Getting gay married? This from a guy who think he talks with God and wants to tell all of us what to do. Why do Italians allow him to have a jail?
Remember Gallileo and the witch burnings, and ask yourself what they would want to put people in jail for - if they still could. *Shudder*
Actually Galileo wasn't put in jail. He was put under house arrest. And he was hated far more for making enemies of almost everyone, including the Jesuits who initally supported him but whom he increasingly insulted. As for the witch trials, those were largely an undertaking in Protestant countries.
Because Vatican City is a separate country.
Actually, in virtually all contexts, Vatican City is a legal, independent country. They exchange ambassadors with other countries and they do exercise exclusive power within their borders. Yeah, they can arrest the butler. They could even string him up, I guess.
jail allowed for semi sinners while the real sinnersn still walk the halls of the vatican
If Vatican is a separate countries, why do they still answer to Italy's court when they wire money for criminal through theirs banks?
We should have accidentally bombed the Vatican off the map during WW2 when we had the chance--should have know the Hitler was not the only prominent Catholic that needed to be taken out.
Two reasons:
1) The Vatican bank would like to join the "White List" ... a group of banks that have agreed to expidited procedures in return for open and accountable records. So they're playing nice. Good luck with that ...
2) Any court can handle any case if they decide to do it that way. Bush and Cheney were recently convicted in this pseudo-court in Indonesia (I think...or was it Malaysia). If the Vatican bank wants to do business with the Italian banks (and they sorta have to ... otherwise they can just play with themselves) then they have to play by Italy's rules.
They buried Gallileo OUTSIDE the Church of Santa Croce in Florence. Then, when they figured out he was right, they had to take it back and move the body inside. Ludicrous!
The Vatican is a "country unto itself" with their own laws, police force (obviously no VICE SQUAD) Secretary of State and numerous others officials just like our own country. The Italians have nothing to do with anything that goes on inside the Vatican walls. There have multi-millions of dollars worth of treasures, paintings, precious metals and numerous other treasures within the Vatican, yet they are constantly bumming money to feed "the poor". Why don't they sell some of their treasures to help? Because they are don't care about the hunger- if they did they would do something about it and stop attempting to shame the rest of the world to do their bidding. They are as corrupt as any country in the sandbox. GOD is ashamed of the catholic church. Thre are more gays in the catholic church than in California. Doesn't really matter tho', all they have to do is go to confession and all is forgiven. The catholic church is a cancer upon the earth.(Just in case you're wondering, NO, I am not an atheist but I do have issues with all "organized religions)
Holy Cow Batman. Let's check out that new religion called Joe Pesci. I wish for a new Bat Car just like you have.
OMG! This is awsome! You have said everything I keep trying to explain to religious freaks who keep trying to shove their stupidity down my throat, oh by the way, can I copy this and share it on my Facebook page??? Great job!!!!
Bruce, a classic. You stole my thunder. Competely.
RIP George Carlin (June 22, 2008)
And they say there are no athiests in fox holes. I know a fox with a hole that has an athiest in it ...
Uh, George Carlin is dead, isn't he?
well you see, God does exist.... he's a good guy and is pretty much interested in our welfare..... but we humans have taken advantage of His niceness and have used it to fuel our scams and our own personal greeds and interests... too often we are religious and not Godly. religion is manmade, Godliness is the real thing which we don't see much of. Don't let the bad apples out there get you down, there are plenty of good people out there who still follow Him
I also think God is a little Perverse and Sadistic. He creates us in his "imagine", then watch us doing things like have sex, suffer and such. It's like watching himself doing those things or enjoy billions of his mini-version to go around and doing things.
@Immanuel Smith
I believe in Goodness, I believe in Good people. However I don't believe there is a Good God. Why you ask?
Let's look at the history, is the events throughout history for thousands of years look like a perfect paradise with rainbow and color to you? I don't think so and if a God doing all the bad things, what do you call him/her? That's right, evil gods = devils.
Bruce f we live in a country where you have a first amendment right to free speech as long as it doesn't call an illegal person illegal...so ill practice this right now..you are a very angry man..didn't Santa give you that barbie you secretly asked for?...well god doesn't make bad things happen but he dose offer you to learn from them ...remember Jesus walked the walk..did you?..mr carlan knows now
@richard-2832950
Actually, you sound more like an angry person to me. When the church against women's rights and gay marriage, that is what an angry person would do. When someone speak ill against your religions or belief, you retaliate and that is what you are doing right now.
Furthermore, throughout history, it seems there are more bad things than good things. How long would God just want people "to learn their mistakes" over and over and over and over and over again before he satisfy?
or not
The problem on this earth is not God or religion or the Pope or catholics etc, it is human beings. Human beings, who are incredibly flawed, will screw anything up. Look at any organization created by humans throughout history and you will see how humans destroyed any good that may have come from it. When we humans finally decide to make right choices we will have a decent world to live in. This is of course impossible due to our flawed nature and that includes all of us. We are all equal in the sense that none of us is worth a f##k generally and this is why I believe that the only hope for this world is that mankind destroys itself which will happen eventually.
Mr.Carlin knew THEN.
Mr.Carlin was BRILLIANT.
More than I can say about the sheep that follow their "Good Shepherd".
Know why a good shepherd tends his flock?
So he can fleece them, kill them, eat them and wear their skins.
Odd that Bruce's comment was collapsed. He's correct.
All that saying tells me is: foxholes are full of religious people doing the killing.
These old white men in robes are corrupt and they are trying to dictate to the flock. They should be overthrown.
This is typical of any organization or government. Power turns people into power hungry idiots. There should be more documents released about what actually is going on behind the sacred walls of the papacy. Just like we should know more of what really goes on in our legislative and executive branch of our government. In other words there are always crooks, actually more than you think, where power hungry people live and work.
It is impossible to have power without sinning. Totally impossible to get power without sinning. You must sin to garner power.
Was Jesus ever about amassing power? Well, if He was, then apparently He blew it and wound up getting executed. These guys have lots of power, want to keep it and amass even more if possible, and no intent whatever of being executed.
what a jerk the pope is,you poor insecure people that have to believe in this nonsense.jesus ever does come back to get the faithful,people like the pope wont be on the bus.
So the BUTLER didn't do it. Alfred Hitchcock and Perry Mason would have seen through this charade.
The Pope is a knuckle dragger just like his muslim counter parts. Any body that listens to any human who professes to be god's spokesperson is f^^%$d up. There is no mean magic man in the sky. Take responsibility for yourself - DUH...
'love...' esp knuckle dragger
Il Popa is the shepherd of his flock of believers.
The job of a shepherd to his flock?
Fleece them, butcher them, eat them, and wear their skins.
It was Monsignor Mustard in the library with the candlestick...and an altar boy of course.
The alter boy said to the monsignor, "is that a candlestick or are you just happy to see me"? When are people going to realize that religion in general and the catlick religion in particular is a very bad, very cruel joke perpetrated on mankind by a few people. Those in power were having trouble keeping the common man in line with earthly punishments, so they designed "eternal" punishment. Boy oh boy has that worked well. The sheep give the churches literally trillions of dollars, the churches do whatever the hell they want with it. Much of it goes to buy off victims of priests/pedophiles. The poop is complicit in this as he has been covering for child molesters for many years. Now he is just a senile old fart who cannot control his henchmen. Probably cannot control his bowels either, he is probably wearing a diaper under his dress.
It is one more example of the sickness that is religion. The poop is supposed to be infallible, christ's representative on earth, talks directly to the invisible sky fairy.
The sooner we do away with all this christer bs, the better off we will be. They are nothing but misogynistic, homophobic, ass bags that are only in it for the money, and let's not forget the perq of thumping the buybull with one hand and the alter boys with the other. But the catlicks are not the only ones, the mo-mos are really into incest, when momma tires of being a brood mare, she boots poppa out, and he thinks, wait, I have a perfectly good daughter to molest. But they all do it in the name of the flying spaghetti monster, so it is ok.
Tax churches, liquidate their property and pay off the world's debt with it. It is a scam that has gone on far too long and needs to go the way of the dinosaur.
LOL
I gleefully wait in anticipation of many gritty, gruesome and vile details from this most evil empire. Nothing sanatizes as well as the light of day.
As a liberal socialist communist, I really hope the leaked documents don't show that Jesus Christ is really the eternal Son of God and the Catholic Church is the one true church. That could be bad for us!
Yeah, I see where they would keep those kinds of documents secret, Matt.
Matt
Critical thinking and humor are lost on the "true believers" !
The Roman Catholic church has been politics from day one. When you have an 85 year-old leader, you have a mostly inept, incompetent, and impotent head. We learned that with Ronald Reagan in the White House. Younger men like Presidents Kennedy and Obama are the leaders who take control and get things taken care of. Few aging leaders can handle the job.
I'd take Reagan at 72 over this guy at 50 any day. (Now Reagan at 77, or the Pope or anybody else at 85, excepting of course Warren Buffett and Charlie Mounger, is another matter.)
John Kennedy was probably ??? the only American President to be high on drugs his entire tenure. Yes, they were prescribed by his doctor, but so was Elvis'. And you're right KK, Obama has really take care of the economy and unemployment and our former national pride. His main agenda is to make sure the ho's and pimps down on 14th street get health insurance at our(the working middle class) expense.
The whole catholic religion should be ABORTED!!
the butler did it... LOL, prob been written here a 100 times
"Christianity" is the only socially acceptable cult.
RDog I know, I thought of that one too, outstanding
May the God-man bless the leaker. Been awhile since I've read it, but I think the Bible says, "If you've done it to the leakiest of these, you've done it unto me."
Corruption and incompetence both at the highest level of the Catholic religion once again prove it is ALL ABOUT MONEY AND POWER. It ALWAYS HAS BEEN. The Pope loves being able to tell half a billion people what they can and can't do, even if it has absolutely nothing to do with their eternal salvation. It is about CONTROL AND MONEY!
I still do not get how ppl think JFK was a saint... **scratching my head
JFK was a tolerably good president with good prospects. But to his great credit, he exited the scene before people could turn against him.
(And to those who say he jumped in and out of beds like they were trampolines, I say, "Yes. So did Johnson. Your point ... ???)
cribbing a college ppr is poor... buying your way into office, poor... n yes, sleeping around, just bc everyone else does it, poor... JFK had potential but he did not use it as much as he might
Yeah ... Actually, I agree with that. I think that if JFK had lasted longer, he would have made more enemies. For example, Johnson took the heat for VietNam, but JFK made the decisions that started us down that path.
I guess my main issue is that both JFK and Johnson did both good stuff and bad stuff and it really didn't have anything to do with whether he kept it in his pants for not.
As with JFK, death was kind to Marlyn Monroe. They are both legends now.
Yeah, can you imagine the 96-year-old JFK taking the 87-year old Marilyn to see the show being done by the 77-year-old Elvis? No? Well, neither can I.
Ooooo ... That's a horrible image! I can't get it out of my mind!
I know! I'll think about molesting alter boys for a while. That'll do it!
Porter Rockwell: Yes, JFK started us down the Vietnam path, but the ink wasn't even dry on the document JFK initiated getting us out of Vietnam before he was assassinated and Johnson, with the insistence of the military, brought the war back to life.
JFK's assassination was a military coup. The military did not want us out of Vietnam and wanted to escalate it, with Johnson's support and cooperation, of course. JFK was in the process of ending it before he was unceremoniously "removed".
Try a lice shampoo!
Debi ...
Conspiracy theorists are an interesting type ... When I visited my relatives in Europe, the one thing that they seemed to want to know was, "Who really killed Kennedy."
Ever hear of Occam's Razor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor - The simplest answer is the best.
This idea is one that made L. Fletcher Prouty a lot of money with the book, "JFK: The CIA, Vietnam and the Plot to Assassinate John F. Kennedy". Oliver Stone made some money on the movie too.
Much of Kennedy's administration was spent increasing our commitment to VietNam. Kennedy sent the first 12,000 "advisers" and 300 helicopters. Monks started burning themselves during his administration.
But then, there is credible evidence that he did start changing his mind not long before he was killed. But there is no credible evidence that the military had anything to do with it. That much is just a flight of the imagination.
I had a day to myself at a convention in Dallas once. I spent the whole day wandering around the 6th Floor Museum and Dealey Plaza. I think a lone gunman did it, just like the Warren Commission said.
Porter: We can agree to disagree, but you have to ask yourself who benefited the most from Kennedy's death?
An interesting read:
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=1093
Speaking of Gawd:
Why doesn’t Jesus make an Appearance at Half Time of da Super Bowl? Wouldn’t that answer a lot of Questions and make a lot of Ministers, Priest’ etc. real Nervous.
Based on the "Vatican" Actions, it’s ok to be a “Pedophile” as long as you are Raping little boys. However being Gay is a Sin, Unacceptable and will not be Tolerated!
Why does da Pope surround himself with Armed Body Guards? Doesn’t he have Faith in Gawd?
Remember Folks….Da more you Donate Da more your Prayers are Answered.
Why do People become Really Religious when they get Really Old or go to Prison?
Why doesn't these Republican TeaBilly Conservative Religious Freaks demand to see a Birth Certificate for Gawd?
Well "jestdafacts". I am old ... coming into year 75 and in now effing way am I buying into the myth of religion. The catcholic church (small c's) has intimidated people ... harrassed people ... threatening people since it's inception. Talk about the Italian Mafia? How about the vatican mafia ... promising life eternal ... salvation ... life in pergatory ... and on and one. If there is a "Hell" ... there has to be a "Special Place" for these "snail oil salesmen". I live in a predominanty catholic country (again small c's) where the "arch-bastard ... along with the narcotaficantes ... pretty much call the shots. The Central Government does very little because ... between the church and the narco's ... any political interference will most assuredly result in them being gunned down. The church ... in Rome ... or any other place ... what a shame that the poor people have nothing more the believe in.
I Believe Jesus did make an appearance at halftime, Broncos vs Packers, 1998 I think, heck I'll just look on my sweet shirt to make sure. Yep, Jesus was there.