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Paul Hanna / Reuters
Spain's economic crisis includes protests like this one in Madrid on Friday, where people rallied against layoffs at Banesto bank.
Spain will seek financial help from its Eurozone partners but exactly how much won't be known until private audits are undertaken, the country's economy minister announced Saturday.
Earlier, European finance ministers discussed plans to offer Spain up to $125 billion (100 billion euros) in a bid to stabilize its banks -- and ease concerns over the even bigger European debt crisis. That amount was described as an upper limit, not an indication of what Spain would ask for.
After Spain's announcement, the Eurozone ministers issued a statement that they expected a formal request "shortly" and are "willing to respond favorably."
Spain earlier said it wanted to wait for two independent audits — due by June 21 — before deciding on whether to seek aid, and it was not clear if those audits were being stepped up.
Christian Science Monitor: As Europe peers into economic chasm, Africa is rising
Spain had resisted asking for a bailout since previous ones for Greece, Ireland and Portugal came with demands for tax increases and spending cuts.
Economy Minister Luis de Guindos emphasized the aid would not come with "micro-economic conditions".
U.S. Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner issued a statement praising the "concrete steps on the path to financial union" for the Eurozone.
Investors and politicians have been increasingly concerned that Spain might not be able to find the money to prop its ailing banks by itself.
Spain warns time is short as G7 discusses eurozone crisis
A report from the International Monetary Fund estimated Spanish banks need a recapitalization injection of at least $50 billion following a stress test it performed on the country's financial sector. That report came out early Saturday, three days ahead of schedule, underscoring the urgency of the situation.
Officials said there had been a heated debate over the IMF's role in Spain's bank rescue, which Madrid wanted kept to a minimum. It will not provide any of the money.
In the end it was agreed that the IMF would help monitor reforms in Spain's banking sector, while EU institutions would ensure Spain stuck to its broader economic commitments.
Eurozone policymakers were eager to shore up Spain's position before June 17 elections that could push Greece closer to a Eurozone exit and unleash a wave of contagion.
Nonetheless, some analysts said financial markets might be calmed by the announcement when they reopen on Monday.
"The figure of up to 100 billion (euros) is more encouraging and pretty realistic; it's an attempt to cap the problem," said Edmund Shing, European head of equity strategy at Barclays.
"The issue, however, is there is still a lack of detail about where the money's coming from, which is crucial. The market will treat it with some caution until they see how it will be funded."
World Bank on Greece crisis: Spain and Italy could be next
The Eurogroup said the funds could come from either from a temporary rescue fund, the EFSF, or the permanent mechanism, the ESM, which is due to start next month. Finland said that if money came from the EFSF, it would want collateral.
EU sources said there was a preference to channel money to Spain through the ESM, rather than the EFSF. Under the ESM, an approval rate of 90 percent or less is needed to trigger aid, and the fund also has more flexibility in how it operates.
"That's why it's so important that the ESM ... be ratified quickly," German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble said.
Spain has already spent $20 billion bailing out small regional savings banks that lent recklessly to property developers.
Spain's biggest failed bank, Bankia, will cost $25 billion to rescue and its shareholders have been wiped out.
The race to resolve the banks' troubles comes after Fitch Ratings cut Spain's sovereign credit rating by three notches to BBB, highlighting the Spanish banking sector's exposure to bad property loans and to contagion from Greece's debt crisis.
It said the cost to the Spanish state of recapitalizing banks stricken by the bursting of a real estate bubble, recession and mass unemployment could be between $75-$125 billion. The higher figure would be in a stress scenario equivalent to Ireland's bank crash.
Greeks withdraw $894 million in one day
Italy could yet get dragged in too. Its industry minister, Corrado Passera, said the economic situation in Italy had improved since the end of 2011, but remained critical. "Europe was more disappointing than we had expected, it was less capable of tackling a relatively minor problem such as Greece," Passera told a conference.
While Spain would join Greece, Ireland and Portugal in receiving a European financial rescue, officials said the aid would be focused only on its banking sector, without taking the Spanish state out of credit markets.
That would be crucial to avoid overstraining the Eurozone's rescue funds, which would struggle to cover Spanish government borrowing needs for the next three years plus possible additional assistance for Portugal and Ireland.
Conditions in the plan would be related to the banks and would probably not add to the austerity measures and structural economic reforms that Spain's government has already put in place, EU and German sources said.
A "bailout lite" would help salvage Spanish pride. Spain is the world's 12th largest economy and No. 4 in the Eurozone. EU and German officials have cited national pride as a barrier to requesting a full assistance program.
The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.
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Leave a Comment:
How long will it be before our tax money is going over to help? I'm sure someone will think it is a great idea and no one will have a say in it.
Just like the American banks, the Spanish banks screwed up. ALL of the worlds banks gave loans they shouldn't have. Now, they are blackmailing their respective governments for a bailout. The prospect of massive bank failures has governments caving in to the bank's demands, basically. The bank's shareholders are the ones being saved. The common citizen is being fired/laid off, and gouged when they buy ANYTHING!
Our money isn't our money - it's really China's.
the federal reserve share will be about 40 billion, start the presses going; all the trouble was and is caused by the derivative/hedge fund bundling, started by the American federal Reserve banks in early 2000; there is no end in sight to this meltdown, Bernake testified that in 1999, the entire bundled hedge fund market was 80 billion. in 2009 it was 400 trillion, it is so huge no one has any idea what the ultimate outcome will be; they all do know it will be a disaster world wide.
thank you Congress and bill clinton for doing away with Glass-stegal regulation's, and of course we must also thank alan (the idiot) greenspain.
The Social Security Trust fund, and the American wealthy, hold more of the USA's debt than all others combined. (ritholtz.com / blog / 2011/03/who-does-the-us-owe-money-to/)
What WE HAVE is an economic system in which all wealth and power is held by a tiny group of billionaires and their state.
What WE NEED is a system where the wealth of society belongs to those who produce it - the workers - and is used in a planned and sustainable way for the benefit of all.
roadkill; the old age and disability trust(aka social security), holds nothing but iou's from the treasury, all the money and all future receipts have been pledged to the federal reserve and the european central banks, so they could issue bonds , mostly u.s. treasury obligations, that is why the fed, is on the hook for about 40% of the greek, spain,portugal, italy, ireland bail outs, that is the real reason for the push at social security reform, they have a choice either pay the workers retirement or pay the banks what is owed, guess which one they will choose.
Good luck on that one marlen......It has never happened in the history of the world. The wealth always accumulates at the top regardless of the system.
marlene10197; that is exactly what karl marx wrote about, and lenin implemented in russia when the bolsheviks took over.
We have enough for our needs, but never enough for their greed.
Yes, Saxon, we owe our own retirement accounts. The banks failures, and government overspending, have drained the SS accounts. They are loaded with IOU's. BUT, we owe far more to the American wealthy than even the Social Security accounts.
Saxon......That is exactly what the IOU's are.....government bonds which is government debt. Roadkill is right.
Gee, I wonder where all this bailout money will be coming from? Does it seem reasonable to expect that lending money to a country in so much debt it can't pay what it already owes? Where is the bailout money going to come from for the other European countries that are teetering on the brink of insolvency?
For those blaming the banks, they aren't without responsibility but many times they are forced to do things (make questionable or bad loans, etc.) by their respective governments, many times for political rather than financial reasons.
Hello folks, the United States is in line to get our
country foreclosed upon, just like what’s happening to the European countries.
The entire banking system is corrupt and rigged and the rating agencies are
insignificant. Spain is the next Greece. It is just one of the dominoes that are
falling as the money junkies move in to buy countries for pennies on the dollar
who are involved with the Federal Reserve and its fractional reserve banking
system and associated corrupt stock market.
Have you wondered that ever since the beginning
of the financial crisis and the Quantitative Easing express that was instituted
to keep the economy afloat, the question has been before us: How can the
Federal Reserve maintain zero interest rates for banks and negative real
interest rates for savers and bond holders when the US government is adding
$1.5 trillion to the national debt every year via its budget deficits? Not long
ago the Fed announced that it was going to continue this policy for another 2
or 3 years. As we have witnessed, the Fed is locked into the policy. Without
the artificially low interest rates, the debt payments on the national debt
would be so large that it would tank the US Treasury’s credit rating and the
viability of the dollar, and the trillions of dollars in Interest Rate Swaps
and other derivatives would come unglued.
In other words, financial deregulation leading to Wall Street’s gambles in the
derivatives casino, the US government’s decision to bail out the banks and to
keep them afloat, and the Federal Reserve’s zero interest rate policy have put
the economic future of the US and its currency in a precarious and dangerous
position. It will not be possible to continue to flood the bond markets with
$1.5 trillion in new issues each year when the interest rate on the bonds is
less than the rate of inflation. Everyone who purchases a Treasury bond is
purchasing a depreciating asset. The capital risk of investing in Treasuries is
very high. The low interest rate means that the price paid for the bond is very
high. A rise in interest rates, which must come sooner or later, will collapse
the price of the bonds and inflict capital losses on bond holders, both
domestic and foreign.
We here in the United States have been distracted by the European problems when
our problems believe it or not are much worse. The Treasury bond market is
being helped by this misguided perception that Europe is in worse shape than
the United States.
The Treasury bond market is also helped by the fear individual
investors have of the equity market, which has been turned into a gambling
casino by high-frequency trading . The lesser of two evils does not make a good
investment.
High-frequency trading is electronic trading based on mathematical models that make the
decisions. Investment firms compete on the basis of speed, capturing gains on a
fraction of a penny, and perhaps holding positions for only a few seconds.
These are not long-term investors. Content with their daily earnings, they
close out all positions at the end of each day.
High-frequency trades now account for 70-80% of all equity trades. The result is major
heartburn for traditional investors, who are leaving the equity market. They
end up in Treasuries, because they are unsure of the solvency of banks who pay
next to nothing for deposits, whereas 10-year Treasuries will pay about 2%
nominal, which means, using the official Consumer Price Index, that they are
losing 1% of their capital each year. Using John Williams’ (ShadowStats.com)
correct measure of inflation, they are losing far more. Still, the loss is
about 2 percentage points less than being in a bank, and unlike banks, the
Treasury can have the Federal Reserve print the money to pay off its bonds.
Therefore, bond investment at least returns the nominal amount of the
investment, even if its real value is much lower.
The bottom line folks is all the happy talk of a recovery is just that. We are
about to enter a global recession/depression and it’s going to make 2008 seem
pale in comparison.
The foundation of the corruption and casino environment the stock market has
evolved into is the result of the Federal Reserve’s fractional reserve banking
system. We have convinced ourselves that the road to recovery from debt is pay
off debt with more debt.
,
Folks, it is beyond time to educate ourselves on the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 as
all of our financial problems have been spawned by this illegal act.
Unfortunately most people won’t wise up until they hear that a one world
currency is being implemented to save them.
The old tool of the elite, Problem – Reaction – Solution will be used again to
corral the sheeple once again if we don’t wake up! We need to let the too big
to fails fail and eliminate the Federal Reserve and implement an ethical
financial system that serves the people not the greedy and corrupt!
These bank bailouts prove one thing; THE GOVERNMENTS RULE OVER THE PEOPLE, AND THE BANKS RULE OVER THE GOVERNMENTS.
What ever happened to democracy? Of the people, by the people and for the people?
To late for that. US dollars have pouring into the imf for years now via the fed, soon as they bleed us dry. The entitlements will be next. As the brilliant George Carlin said, "The owners of this country have made us accept the lousy jobs with the lousy pay and smaller retirements and now they want your social security and they will get it. It's not going to get any better so just get used to it."
We are nearing the time that every country will be fending for itself. The world's monetary systems have become insolvent to the point that almost every country will have to become self sufficient. Each country will only be able to sustain itself; when possible.
For all of the countries that have a minimal amount of manufacturing, they will simply fall by the wayside.
No, the banks only rule the government when the government makes bad decisions and goes into debt so much.
The liberal socialistic Europe is crumbling. They are going to start running businesses out in droves. If we can stop our overregulated bloated government, maybe they will come here. Do you know that in France, they are actually forcing companies to stay open? A company I know has factories in the US, Canada, Brazil and China. The France plant was failing, so they were going to move the resources, but France would not allow it. What business in their right mind would start up there, knowing that if it didn't work, you would be forced to continue to dump money into it? When our government told Boeing they couldn't move to a more profitible state, seemed to me to be unconstitutional. Union thuggery.
Let's tell the truth. All of the financial institutions that are seeking (or have already received) "bailouts" in order to "avoid" collapse....have ALREADY collapsed!
The only way to get rid of their financial mess(es) is to LEAVE THEM ALONE AND LET THEM COLLAPSE COMPLETELY!!
"Bailouts" simply mean that we'll continue to play along with the practices that caused the collapse in the first place, in effect pretending that the collapse really wasn't a collapse at all.
Complete collapse will eliminate all that worthless paper from the banking systems, and only the true, viable, and verifiable value will be left on the table...and we'll have to re-start from that point. Otherwise, we'll continue to paste over the worthless paper with more credit paper, and we will still be masking the financial truth.
The financial institutions worldwide would have you believe that their very existence is vital to your life....but that ain't necessarily so.
LET THEM COLLAPSE!
This is just further confirmation that socialist/liberal governments are not effective when sacrificing jobs to maintain government handouts. Taxes don't create jobs, unless there is also an incentive for businesses to expand and create those jobs... simple to say, not simple to do apparently.
Too many countries in the European Union are asked to bailout failed banks and governments in other parts of the Union. Other countries will soon follow in Greece and Spain's footsteps.... and all of this will continue to adversely affect America!
Spains problems didnt come to a head until the conservatives took over the govt there and started slashing social programs. But the fact remains this all falls back in the lap of the Bush administration screwing up the world economy.
Interpretation: Parroting what Mrs. Merkel said on 7 June 2012 for establishment of an Euro Political and Fiscal UNION.
Of course the EuROPIIgs will seek more bailouts for whichever country in Europe needs it. The reason is to tighten the noose on them and then DEMAND that all Euro member nations join a Political and Fiscal UNION described above. That way, the "elite" masters of Merkel's "shadow" European government can then control ALL of Europe and do whatever they want politically and then distribute each Nation's WEALTH as they see fit.
Talk about immediate release of a Nation's sovergienty.
Now, I wonder why the major media networks have failed to report this attempt by Merkel.
Baddog40....This has NOTHING to do with Bush. Get a clue on what is going on.
Hello Crystal, you do know that the largest recipients of social welfare in the history of the world is our "Free Market Capitalist" banks and financial institutions, right? Remember the bailouts? John and Jane Q taxpayer have bailed out the banksters to the tune of tens of trillions of dollars and it will continue with Spain. There is Socialism for the rich and Capitalism for the middle class and poor!
@BMette
"LET THEM COLLAPSE" would mean the end of capitalism (and they know it). No, they will do ANYTHING to keep the system going even it means war!
Hello BMette, great post!
put america first; you are close, but miss the big point; the tresuary bonds are not held by the social security trust(as it is in chile); they are held by investors, those bonds mature and must be replaced with new bonds; in plain words, the debt is retired by issuing new debt, to retire the old debt, plus the interest it must also redeem; the old age and disability trust fund, holds no government bonds, no gold, no property; it has all been drained out; all it holds is a treasury promise to pay, when they can not pay, it borrows from the federal reserve to make payments ,and the fed then issues more bonds on the promise that they will be paid from future tax receipts ; it is insane , since it is in fact debt by pledging future debt.
The US is @ 15 Trillion in debt, we don't know how much all of Europe is in debt. Who is the world indebted too? Maybe it is the only group of people that I know that even Jesus got upset with, just food for thought.
Well..not only that...but...There are 700 trillion - 1.2 quadrillion of derivatives out there waiting to f--k everything up
I don't know who is eating lobster tonight but they should be proud
trustverify, I was opposed to the bank bailouts. It was idiotic, they said it was because the banks were too big to fail, and after the bailout, they absorbed all the smaller banks and are bigger yet. Then after they took all the money, they jacked up everybody's interest rate and made billions more.
Marlen and roadkill...
Start promoting a "cash and carry" economy. Can't buy if you don't have the cash. Credit is solely at the discretion of the retailer.
BTW roadkill, I don't understand why you think we owe the wealthy. ???
SJ-3...
Guess you don't keep up with everyday news events and police reports. Lots of reports on identity theft, burglaries, robberies, fraud, rape and murder. Greed is not just to be identified with banks and corporations. It is systemic from the top to the bottom of any society.
thank you Congress and bill clinton for doing away with Glass-stegal regulation's
All right Bill Clinton failed to notice a changed bill was added to the last Omnibus spending bill passed by a repbulican congress that included the repeall of the act that prevented banks from lending money without proper financial banking. This act had nothing to do with the worlds entry into derivitives and in fact had the act not been repealed American banks and institutions woulld still have been able to do this through their oveseas operations. After the fact the thing exploded and insurance agains mortgage failure was issued without any backing. The rest is history. No it was not people buying more house than they could afford and no it was not subprime buyers it was greedy financial wizard who's magic wand went caput. Now if we continue down this stupid globalization path after this all settles down we are all fools.
Screw the banks. They borrow money dirt cheap from the Federal Reserve (our tax dollars) and loan our own money back to us at an inflated rate and when they gamble to much and it doesnt work out we bail them out. They are the biggest criminals of the 20th and 21st century and should be at the least banned from the financial sector and and the worst in jail.
Spain may not need conditions attached to their bailout since they have already started their own cutbacks.
Before anyone gets carried away with trying to lump having spain, portugal, ireland and greece debts being painted as the same, they are not. Spain and ireland's bailouts are banking screwups. Greece is more oriented towards the greek government promising the pensioner's more than the government can give
marlen101917….."What WE NEED is a system where the wealth of society belongs to those who produce it - the workers - and is used in a planned and sustainable way for the benefit of all."
Yep, just throw capitalism under the bus, have government control all businesses, and the profits from the businesses be given to the workers. Yeah…..right !!!!
You may be a prime candidate for working at SEIU or maybe someone for relocation to Germany.
Wait a minute….your comment was taken straight from a World Federation of Trade Unions web site:
You left off the rest of the WFT Union agenda:
Yep, sounds like a quick scenario for a revolution against UNIONS by those capitalists who work for a living. Wait, it started in Wisconsin.
People, can't you see what is happening here? "Stimulus" and "too big to fail" are being thrown around like there is an emergency everywhere. And there is an emergency, just not the way it looks. The emergency is that the people are too stupid to realize that these terms "stimulus" and "too big to fail" are being used to con them into giving up their money to the giant banks and corporations. These giant banks and corporations then eat off the fat of the people, riding the downfall to the collapse of all economies, while the people begin to starve.
The politicians keep telling the people that "stimulus" and "too big to fail" is the right thing to do because the giant banks and corporations (lobbyists) keep paying them to say so.
Meanwhile, our money becomes more and more worthless because of all the artificial growth in the money supply. (Remember, the more of something there is the less it's worth.) They are getting this money by way of the printing presses (out of thin air) and foreign country loans. These debts are then all loaded onto the people of each country and will have to be paid back (but they won't be, as the people running the show already know and have planned it that way).
The people running the show know exactly what they are doing. They want governments to collapse so that during the downfall they can come in and rescue (steal) your home and belongings by personal government bailout loans to you (that you won't be able to pay back because of a bad economy); the things you've worked your entire life for. If they don't get you there, when it finally does collapse and your money becomes worthless because of hyperinflation, all of your savings in the bank will then be worthless. Then, if they still didn't get you because all of your goods are already paid for, when everything collapses and your dollar is worthless they will claim imminent domain (confiscate) your lands and goods, saying things like "We need this to pay the debt of the nation."
This is all pure and simple the taking away of sovereignty of all nations so that all nations will bow down and serve a one world power. The whole time we are going down, as we are now, we will be told that the stimulus and trillions being spent are being done to try to help the situation. Those running the show already know that that is not the case.
I just wanted you to know exactly what is happening.
Bingo, Gunner!
I agree with you 100%!
We best help ourselves before sending OUR tax money across the Atlantic.
hungrymongoose
You are alluding to....yep here it is....."New World Order".
And if someone really took the time to investigate the World's financial mess, the finger would probably point straight at Mr. Soros.
I don't always agree with Ron Paul but eliminating foreign aid and not giving a F about "other peoples problems"
Nice start
Charity begins at home
Didn't the people of Spain learn anything? You better Foreclose on those banks before you bail them out and they foreclose on you.
It's like giving a starving monster food to gather his strength to eat you. Why would you do that?
Puppetmaster Billionare Georgy Soros, Obama's suporter founder of moveon.org and other socialist organizations ,is not interested in help Europe because he and other Edge Fund investors are profiting from the debacle of the Euro. Like he did in Great Britain before.
A spokesman for Soros, who last year converted his Soros Fund Management to a
family office . Brynjolfsson and several other U.S. money managers who are trying to profit from
Europe's misery say they expect the current crisis to produce a lot of winners.
What is the matter with you, Geisner. Did you not already created enough garbage in our country? Keep your extremely unqualified mouth shut and crawl back into your Dem den.
Praise from Geisner is meaningless. All he is looking for is to protect his arss.
Baddog40, there are so many things wrong with your post where or where do I begin? Spain's (and the rest of Europe's) problems began after WWII when the socialist ideals really started to take hold. Nobody had the foresight to think about how these countries would pay for all of these costly programs. Now they are ALL paying the price, and by all I mean Germany since that is where most of the money will come from.
Greece, Spain, Ireland and Italy are all cautionary tales for what happens when governments spend well beyond the means of the country to pay for that spending. It's really not rocket science. There was no way ever, by no matter what calculations you or all the other leftie socialist use, that this reckless spending could go on indefinitely.
Now your president has the US heading down the same path. Terrific for us.
Comment; Edge Founds , where Bufffet is also part of it, for some unknown reason are exept from any regulation from the Dodd-Franks Financial Regulation Reform.
Really the people of Spain are the ones who need the bailout.
1% are laughing their asses off.
Blaming liberals and conservatives is what they want you to do.
(Reuters) - Hedge funds and other money
managers pulled nearly $1.7 billion from commodity markets in the first week of
June, extending the bearish mood from May, as the euro zone crisis and
stuttering global economy roiled markets, trade data showed on
Friday.
Together with last month, speculators have cashed nearly $30 billion from the
major energy, metals and agricultural markets, and wiped out almost half of the
value in all U.S. commodity futures since the end of
March, data from the Commodity Futures Trading Commission showed.
"If you take that data and couple it with the broad sell-off we've seen over
the last two months in commodities, it clearly shows the largest funds and
institutions are not just whittling positions but dumping them," said Adam
Sarhan at Sarhan Financial in New York.
According to the CFTC's Commitment of Traders Report, the net length across
24 U.S. commodities futures markets fell by $1.68 billion to stand at $56.4
billion in the week to June 5 despite a rise in longs for crude oil, gold and
silver.At the end of April, overall net length stood at $84.6 billion, while at the
close of March, it was at $105.5 billion.
The 19-commodity CRB index .CRB, a global benchmark for the asset class, fell
to its lowest since September last week as investors' preoccupation with the
euro zone continued to take precedence over other fundamentals in
commodities. Analysts said they expected little relief in the week ahead, unless European
authorities could firm up a rescue plan for Spain's beleaguered banking
sector.
Spain, whose credit rating was downgraded three notches on Thursday, was set
to request European aid for its banks this weekend to forestall worsening market
turmoil, EU and German sources said.
demar, please explain why Germany and France (who have more social programs than any European country) are doing better than the rest of Europe and the US? Spains problems (just as here) are the banks fleecing the system, but yea, lets blame the poor if it makes you feel better.
Doing better?! They pay outrageous taxes, gas is $8 to $10 a gallon, they are taxed on horsepower for their cars (that's why you almost never see an SUV or truck over there, only tiny little tin cans), healthcare is abysmal, and you call that better?
HungryMongoose . . I don't really understand . . what is the point of having one world currency?? Who would benefit from that??
I say we make a pact with our allies and Russia, China. This Time Bail Out The People. Yes use consumption, but they must apply it on debt first. Use a systematic system (?last names) in incremental payments. Sure there will be (happy and disappointing) chaos but not like it can be otherwise.
Actually I think the people will surprise you.
Motivate the people. Prices will rise and will create need for new companies. Competition.
I am short and near sided on purpose, discredit my comment because you thought about it not because I didn't use extensive details.
Boom Bust? I don't think so, trust the people.
How is the expanse of Capitalism, New World Order, working out. Doesn't look so good from where I sit!
The US economy will take another "hit" with what is going on in Europe!
The US Companies outsourced their US jobs and productivity, at the expense of the American People and the American way of life.
Ruh, Roh! Survival of the fittest, we in the US, controlled by our Military Industrial Complex need a war! Iran, you doing anything?
I wondered how long it would be before someone blames Obama for what' happening in Spain. Looks like it took 10 minutes.
MtMike,
War with Iran? Why? What for?
More than likely it will be war with Pakistan, might actually get public support. India will probably want a piece of that ass as well.
Two words.....bottomless pit.
Reading many of these posts, it occurs to me that few understand the banking system.
It said in this article that the shareholders in that failed bank were WIPED OUT. Shareholders in banks are just YOU AND ME. So many 401 plans own bank stocks. Now it is true that people like Buffett that bought BofA back several months ago, got a super deal to do so because of the amount he invested and he will get the best deal of any money remaining should BofA go belly up. Stockholders are the 1st to get screwed. You need to know that before investing.
The EU members do not have an insurance backstop for their banks for the every day depositor. So no FDIC. That is why there has been a run on bank deposits. To stop the runs they would need to enact such a policy. Good luck getting all these countries to agree on insuring each other's banking debt.
Often you will hear that a bank is needing to go to the private sector to raise money so that they can have meet capital reserves which means that money isn't put to work, but just sits to cover losses if that should happen.
So I am saying that we can't just dismiss the banking system and not bail them out when something of this magnitude goes wrong. The banks were wrong to lend to every Tom, Dick, and Harry, or bet in some proprietary derivative play, etc, such as JPM did recently. That was stupid and it has been said it will take years to wind down that bet. But people were stupid to take on the sort of debt they did. Apparently in Spain a decade ago, personal debt was low. Today due to speculative buying in the real estate market many now have high debt and now of course high unemployment. Hard to pay off mortgage loans without a job. So everybody was foolish and now globally everybody will pay.
"A "bailout lite" would help salvage Spanish pride. Spain is the world's 12th largest economy and No. 4 in the Eurozone. EU and German officials have cited national pride as a barrier to requesting a full assistance program. "
It's hard to feed your family with nothing but 'pride'.
This is what comes from living beyond your means - as we are now doing in the United States.
Roy Wilson - This is far more complicated than just bad consumer loans, but nice try. Just like the American Banks, they are allowed to conduct very complicated trades through prop and other ridiculous instruments all in the name of Arbitrage. Can't have slow steady growth anymore, you must make millions over night.
I'm all for Austerity in our Country and abroad, but I also want to see the big Banks broken up, its unfair to ask citizens to sacrifice and then allow these Banks to hold our economy by a string because their too big to fail...
Each and every country should go back to their original currencies and then forgive the fiat debt that the criminal banksters have stolen from the worlds people. They borrow you fake digital money and you pay them back with your hard earned real money. For people in the US there is a way out, google and read STOP THE PIRATES, it will open your eyes to what and how the laws are written.
ALSO: I see that the Bilderburgers got to Ron Paul. They threatened him at the meetings they had in Chantilly VA if I got the town right. These criminals said out loud that they should take Ron Paul & his supporters, put them on a plane with a suicide bomber and take care of the problem.
GOOD LUCK, THE WHOLE WORLD IS GONNA NEED IT!!
There is no reason to break up banks. Or to reinstate Glass-Steagall. Our banks, and those around the world, didn't operate recklessly, they operated rationally. Your response is my case. So long as you believe that any firm, bank or otherwise, is too big to fail, then you set yourself up regardless of how regulated that firm is to bail them out if things go south. BMettem above, is absolutely correct. Let them fail. The market will ruthlessly but rationally value all assets, and those with money and willing to accept the risk will buy up those assets. A given bank might fail, but all its underlying assets will be revalued and bought up. It isn't as if because a bank fails that every asset it holds has its value go to zero too.
If banks want to take massive risks then let them. Just don't bail them out. In fact, don't bail out account holders either unless you want a two track system where account insurance is available only to those accounts in banks where the bank agrees to the most conservative strategy and tactics. But if an account holder wants to be part of the wild west let them. If they fail it's on them. But in the case of our banks, just as in the case of the Spanish banks, the bankers were acting completely rationally, following the incentives put before them by the government to behave as they did. So, rather than try to regulate banks, or other firms, to perfection, why not simply get the government out of the business of producing bubbles? Whether it's the RE bubble, or the tech bubble, or the S and L bubble, is irrelevant. Government policy helped to create the bubble that blew up and got us all in the same mess.
Wet Willy stated:"Gee, I wonder where all this bailout money will be coming from? Does it seem reasonable to expect that lending money to a country in so much debt it can't pay what it already owes? Where is the bailout money going to come from for the other European countries that are teetering on the brink of insolvency?"
It's like this Willy, think of yourself as the U.S.A. and Europe(the G7 countries). The rest of the world is done loaning money to countries that will never be able to repay it. So, you just start up the printing presses, and print more money that has no value. In other words, devaluing your money even more than it should ever be, for the simple reason of putting off the inevitable. How well would it work for you and I to buy our own debt, just so we can print up more of it, and make that debt even deeper, and our money even more worthless? One day, the time will come for all those national debts to be paid back, and what will the governments give them as payment? The people? No, it will never be paid back, as they never had any intentions of doing so. They prove this over and over, by not trying to get their budgets under control, and balanced.
" Europe was more disappointing than we had expected "? Europe has been disappointing since the Dark Ages. The only reason there was any reform can be attributed to the Plague, which would sweep through every now and again. Just what is this bailout, bailing out?
Pathetic once again. DO YOUR F**KING HOMEWORK (Research).
So far ONLY saxon, post#1.3 got the Facts. And saxon and I usually disagree on just about everything.
The Current Global Economic Crisis
http://david393071.newsvine.com/_news/2011/02/22/6107088-the-current-global-economic-crisis
This Article also failed to mention Not so Great Britain of the list of Greece, Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Italy. (There are reasons why France, then Germany are last. And why the Russian Federation and Chinese are not directly affected/effected by this and laughing their arses off). Economic Warfare is better than actual Military Warfare. However, you do need a strong Military to protect all your gains of those losses by the US and US Allies due to President Obama's March 2009 Policy, as to why the Chinese and Russian Federation are cranking out a 21st Century Technology Military faster than producing products for Walmart and spending less money and getting more since they still take people out and execute them for failures to accomplish Contracts, while the US rewards failures over and over again (Contract Cost Overruns, Contract Defaults, Contract Fraud (Under Bidding on purpose), etc..).
These are some of the reasons why I laugh my arse off everytime the 99%'ers spout their nonsense, since they have no clue as to how we got here from then (1999, 2000). And since they have no clue then they don't know how to formulate a solution (lack of cognitive reasoning skills, so called academic idealistic "highly educated" but no common sense or actual practical experience (Life or Death School of Hard Knocks)).
Sadly, I think politicians..our presidents, heads of parliaments and all the rest down to small town mayors who are supposed to be enacting the will of the people whatever that is within different borders have I think little to no power. Those who think big banks, wall street and corporations don't steer the ship are I think in err. Oh, well one other place is going to be increasingly steering the ship unless we wake up and stop buying their junkgoods. China. The west buys up their goods like mad in the U.S. and Europe because they are cheaper (sweatshops will allow for that). We and Europe need to stop exporting all of our money enriching a brutal dictatorship with a plastic lead painted smiley face plastered across it and buy goods produced at home supporting and enriching our own people even if it costs a little bit more. Next visit to Walmart just check how many goods don't say "made in China" on them....few.
Marlen wrote:
Well, which is it? Does it belong to us workers.... but only as long as we spend it in a planned and sustainable way for the benefit of all? And if I think tax cuts are a greater benefit to all than building a bridge in your city, who wins? Don't bother answering the last question. I already know the answer.
Once again this is proof that free trade will not work. Our politicians are traitors to our nation.
"Socialist/liberal" makes about as much sense as "fascist/conservative."
Since Spain carried little public debt, the "socialist/liberal government" must have been a responsible steward of public funds. Once again, deregulated banking has brought a country to its knees and threatened the financial stability of the world. Once again, taxpayers have had to bail out the banks.
If you want the American economy to look like Ireland or Spain, all you have to do is vote fascist/conservative/Republican.
Different country but the problem’s the same. Once great Europe is now littered with struggling governments and desperate populations. Being “progressive” is no longer fashionable or affordable. They are finding this out one by one. Yesterday it was Greece, today Spain and who will follow is anyone’s guess. Portugal, Italy or perhaps Slovakia, all of them are struggling! I hope we don’t follow.
Someone always has to pay for bad policies and mistakes! We will get our chance in November to decide what path to follow.
Only in America 1.59
I know this and was just being a little sarcastic with my musings regarding where the money will be coming from. I'll condense your response by stating:
This is simply kicking the can down the road which means; let somebody else handle this looming disaster. The only problem is that the longer this is postponed, the worse the outcome.
Regarding the unfettered printing of money to avoid the inevitable, it has been said; money from heaven is the path to hell.
Because we have put an incompetent Marxist in the white house, we in America shall experience hell sooner than later.
Maybe this might have something to do with our financial problems here in the US? http://www.moneytrendsresearch.com/bush-fed-europe-banks-in-15-trillion-fraud-all-documented/
I know how easily we forget yesterdays news.
Can I buy some of those Chickens?
Why is your cockfighting business in trouble?
Hey, I think the titanic could use new drapes, then it won't sink.
Perhaps wool drapes?
It is just a matter of time before the United States will need a bailout. Keep spending incredible amounts of money. Keep printing money to cover it. My god how can so many people be so ignorant?
We already are getting bailed out by china every day......it will get worst unless people learn the definition of the word responsible........we can't keep spending DUMMIES
Probably a choice they are making, gringo. Fear does strange things to people. Ignore it and it will go away.
And what is the solution if we stop now? All countries are doing it. Japan survived after world war two after their currency was practically worthless. A loaf of bread required a shopping car full of money to pay for it. As the President said in the beginning of his term that it will take years not months for this to play out and the outcome is not going to be anything like itwas before. Right now the people who have money are sitting on it not spending on restructuring all these countries. Leaving the litle guys to scrap for themselves and as long as they have th GOP in their back pocket they will continues to do just tha.
Breadex, how droll making excuses for obama and then piling on the blame to the GOP.
LOL, all recoveries take time. Once housing failed to make a "V" shaped recovery we were in deep doo-doo. When obama and company took his eyes off of the economy and rammed through over 5000 pages of legislation against all businesses he effectively chose to slow down growth.
The amount of debt can be lowered by simply creating a strong US dollar again. Its really about dollar value than debt. Currently our dollar is not valued what it used to be so our debt is true, once our dollar gains strength against the other world economies again our debt will lower.
GCooper-4276999
we also need to cut fat out of all programs in this country as well, reduce our foreign trade deficits, and revamp our tax codes.
What the f**k are you talking about. After WWII the US Millitary Governments (Occupation) of Japan under the General MacArthur Plan and at Germany of the General Marshall Plan did not allow that to happen.
And as far as the loaf of bread requiring a CART, not car full of money was under the Weimar Republic. That just like YOUR Messiah President Obama believes that he can spend his way out of the current Depression, so that is exactly what the Weimar Republic did spend more and print more money, all the Germans going out partying happy, etc. until their German money turned almost worthless with "Hyper Inflation" since everyone had lots of money.
And like I mentioned at post#1.61 because you and President Obama do not know what Caused this situation, you don't even know how to come up with a Solution; AND Repeat the Same Historically Documented Failures and Expect a Difference Result.
President FDR (RIP) must be doing backflips in his grave. All the work he did to get the US out of the Great Depression and HIS Party of Demoncraps undoing all his Work to prevent the US from ever getting into the same situation (Depression).
So if all countries demand that anyone with a screen name of breadex must cut off their gentials are you going to do that. That is the excuse of a sheep just before getting f**ked.
European analog of the U.S. Federal Reserve people: "Let's forget about Greece and Italy and the other problem countries for a minute ..."
This coming bailout and the ones before and likely to come after it are only delaying the inevitable.
Globalism is dying and the monied interests will soon find they have run out of our money to pass between themselves.
So yet again a few big banks hold a country hostage and get bailed out. So much for the policy of not giving in to terrorist demands, which goes for America as well.
With all the money we have given these countries every American could be a millionaire. Print some for me
We are not even close to that amount of money. Every American might have $50,000 though.
PutAmericaFirst, actually, if you look at Europe directly following World War II and consider how much money the US did give those countries, shonedavid is correct.
However, it's just as with Africa and South America in that the US throws money at countries that we know damn well we'll never see again and the taxpayer gets screwed for it.
Actually it was around $250,000.
demar, i highly doubt we give these countries checks to cash for large sums of dollars. Instead i'd be more inclined to think we give them breaks on trade, we give credits on tarrifs, we send in items with a declared value to help rebuild. Its not as if we just hand them a check for 25million US dollars every month. Declared aid value and actual aid value are two completely different numbers. Though we may not see the return for such rendered aid all at once we do see some of it return back to the US through different channels.
With the US population around 310 million we would have had to give away 310 trillion in aid to cover everyone for a million each.
Almost all of Europe is a socialistic hopeless mess.
Yep.....and the dumdasses in the United States want to turn the US into socialistic country.....LOOK dumbasses!
Europe and the countries that are failing are just now turning to Socialism because their dance with conservatives proved to be a bitter pill. There is an adage that if you want socialism elect some conservatives and let them destroy it so you can then go socialist.
Roger explain who is trying to turn this country into socialism. Thats just right wing troll bait
breadex
B.O. seems to be working on it...
Breadex... Europe is just turning to "socialism"? Where have you been? FYI... Germany and other northern eurapean countries have said they were willing to pay higher taxes to get those type of bennies. I haven't seen any of my fellow countrymen/women jumping up an down saying to raise their taxes.
Golly, for many of us poor folk, anyone who wants bigger government and wants more control of what we do is advocating for a socialistic society. Seems that is what obama's message has been these past 3 1/2 years. I think marx and engels even went so far as saying it was all the fault of the wealthy as well. Seems like that was even the message obama was touting last year.
Europe went socialist 50 years ago but all-in during the the last 30 years. Massive spending that got them into econmic chaos and now after a couple years at pretend "austerity" they call it a failure.
breadex, you are completely ignorant of a little thing called facts. European countries did not "just" turn to Socialism. Educate yourself before posting such nonsense.
R0gerR0ger
You don't even know what a real socialist is do you.
LOL, those Europe countries are socialism? Where did you get that your education?
Oh hey, big banks "bail out" again. Familiar?
We need to stop worrying about other countries debts.
Will it affect are market? Yes.
Will it correct the market to where it needs to be? Yes
Right now are market is a joke because it depends on federal spending instead of the private sector. The fed has been abusing Americans for years and no one cares. Now people are waking up. Obama and Romney are clones of each other. They have no interest in what is happening to are debt.
Will Obama and Romney add to are debt? Yes
Will Americans wake up to reality? No
We are in a society of entitlements and people are sucked into them. The middle class will disappear soon and we will officially be a socialist country because people are sheep.
Why don't they sell all that gold they stoled from south America?
Because they already spent it, RAZ
RAZ-3502573
What is a "stoled"????
Ron Paul talks about attacking the debt and ending wars.Where is the support for the man? write him in!
We need term limits for congress,to bad we couldnt wipe the slate clean.
Greece is just another failed socialist country. Nothing to see here.
You assertion that Greece is "another failed socialist country is incorrect".
Greece may have had a socialist government but it never had a socialist economy. According to Wikipedia; the worlds only four socialist countries are: China, Cuba, Lao's and Vietnam (and they are all doing fine). In fact, socialist Cuba is doing much better than capitalist Haiti.
To the right wingers everything to the left of their stupid theory is socialist and most all of them have no idea what the term even means but it helps while they are trolling.
marlen101917
"According to Wikipedia; the worlds only four socialist countries are: China, Cuba, Lao's and Vietnam (and they are all doing fine)"
Any one who thinks these four countries are "doing fine", needs to live there for awhile. "doing fine", didn't Obomus just say that about the private sector?
beaner, you can't argue with these two geniuses. Never mind the fact that people still risk death escaping from Cuba on little, wooden rafts to float across an ocean in order to get to the US. It's all terrific. Besides, anyone that uses a quote from Wikipedia to back up their argument is not really worth the trouble.
Breadex, I have a master's degree in political science. I bet I know more about it than you do. European countries ARE socialist. You can call a duck a tiger if you like, but it's still a duck. Stop drinking the Kool-Aid my friend.
beaner-3998364
Didn't the GOP just say that a tax break for american corporations would create all kinds of jobs in the United States? Oh wait, that was two years ago and we still don't have any more jobs.
Weve already been a socialist country for a while. We cant live on debt and printing money.How we are supposed to make it as a country,let alone bail out other countrys who are over theyre heads in debt?
Like GM should have been left alone to swim or sink,Spain needs to be left alone.Its not in our constitution to be the worlds big brother,banker and military defender.Europe well fail,now or later.And theusa is going to follow,16 trillion is such an insane amount of money people just cant grasp it.
The Repugnants may have (show me the documentation or even a youtube.com video) said that; but, just after President Obama signed President Bush's (43) Tax Cuts (For all US Citizens, including your arse)'; President Obama chased all the Job Creators out of the US; by chasing the Rich US and Business Investors out of the US with his "Tax the Rich", "Rich Pay Their Fair Share" (video at youtube.com) to Vietnam, India, China, etc.; just like he did in 2008 as Candidate Obama, "Tax the Rich", "Rich Pay Their Fair Share" (video at youtube.com).
President Obama's "Tax the Rich" and "Rich Pay Their Fair Share" only ADDED to the "Credit Crisis" of the current $60 Trillion to $100 Trillion "Global Economic Crisis" consisting of the Mortgage Crisis, Wall Street Crisis, Financial Crisis, Banking Crisis, Credit Crisis, etc..
The Credit Crisis being identical to the Credit Crisis of the Great Depression in that the Rich US and Foreign Business Investors fled the extremely high percentage of US Taxes on the Rich, so that everyone of any US Business no longer could get loans to expand their businesses or even to keep their businesses going, farmers could not get loans to buy seeds, livestock, fertilizer, etc..
This is why the US Government ended up Bailing Out the US Corporations since 2008 (President Obama's Buddy is "Mr. Corporate America") due to the Credit Crisis. As the Demoncraptic Party Controlled US Congress demanded the November December 2008 Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) as "Time Sensitive" (no Public Scrutiny, just like later President Obama's ACA (President Obama gets $1 Billion of Unlimited Corporate Campaign Contributions from the Insurance Corporations, Medical Device Corporations and the Pharmaseucticals Corporations (Finally this is becoming Public Knowledge, as http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47745646/ns/politics-the_new_york_times/) just in time to buy the January 2009 Electoral College Votes.
And before you EVEN say something really ignorant of the 99%'ers; answer this question, "When did a poor person invest in a business or employ (hire) anyone".
Most of those that would argue with you never even read the terms of the "Loans" (US Library of Congress, US Congress .pdf document). As the majority of the Loan was to be used to fund the Retirements and Cadallac Health Care Plans of the UAW; the other parts were to make GM "Economically Viable" by closing the US Plants (and Canadian) and moving to China, moving to China would allow GM to implement their current Automation that was opposed by the Labor Intensive UAW, this Automation would insure a higher quality of products (continous laser measurements, not a UAW with a ruler), produced quicker (not handmade or hand stamped or assembled), and using less materials (less mistakes as human error, the old joke about not buying a Detroit Vehicle manufacutured on Friday or Monday).
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/04/eric-cantor-tax-cut-jobs.php
http://republicanjobcreation.com/
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2011/06/14/Tax-Cuts-and-Job-Creation-Fact-or-Fantasy.aspx
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/09/boehner-vs-obama-speaker-to-present-gops-alternative-strategy-for-job-creation-today/
4 examples.
American Corporations profit has returned to pre corporate levels.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/04/corporate-profits-jobs-investment_n_1478340.html
You mean, the US Government end up bailing out the US Corporations when former PRESIDENT Bush was still in Office:
http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/03/news/economy/house_friday_bailout/index.htm
Again, where are the jobs? Oh, and how did we forget it was the GOP that supported tax cuts for companies that moved jobs overseas;
Don't you love knowing your taxes go to pay for American Corporations? I know its great to know we contribute as consumers of their products and we pay them to take jobs away.
http://www.voanews.com/content/obama-says-tax-code-changes-promote-jobs-in-us--105096329/128186.html
Source?
Oh and I seem to recall that it was former president BUSH that pushed for: (see below), I wonder what the kick back was there? How about the KICK back that BUSH and Cheney got for the illegal war in Iraq?
http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA550MedicareDrugPrices.html
This started LONG before President Obama came into office. Let's give credit where credit is due shall we?
Before you continue to point the finger of blame at our commander and chief. Due all your research and not ignore the contribution of... others.
P.S. What is Romney's plan to create jobs and move the economy forward... "oh wait, he doesn't have one"
99% American People, can you see why CAPITALISM causes corruption & wars? What's it going to take to get our country back to a TRUE DEMOCRACY? We have so much corrupt Republican corporate rule because we allowed them to "HAND-PICK" their political puppets INSTEAD OF US SELECTING WHO WE WANT TO RUN OUR COUNTRY! Now what are we going to do? Should we start over from scratch or vote 100% STRAIGHT DEMOCRATIC? The corrupt Republican corporates have our money spread out ALL OVER THE WORLD, that's why we, the 99% American People, have nothing and are even being forced to bail out their corrupt corporates! What in the hell is going on!! Damn, if it isn't time for change, WHEN WILL IT BE? AFTER WE STARVE TO DEATH? We need to rein in these corrupt Republican corporates and bring what money is left back to the United States! Capitalism hasn't worked and isn't going to work, but only for the 1%! That's NOT WHAT the UNITED STATES of AMERICA IS ALL ABOUT!!
Capitalism? This is what socialism does. That is why they need the bailout.
Rose, you're a fool who has apparently been brainwashed by the socialist ilk in the country into believing that Capitalism and Republicans are the cause of our woes, when, in fact, it is exactly the opposite. Ever expanding socialist policies and entitlement program spending is why the US is in such bad financial condition, and your disgusting democrat bretheren are perpetuating it so they can continually increase dependence of the sheeple like you on the democratic party and thereby maintain power.
Open your eyes. Socialism is failing all over the world, and the socialist programs implemented here in the US are being proven to be utter failures, also. Wake up.
Rose - stop talking, your not helping your case. Your case is much better off if you just dont type anything.
'TR' Rose II
Try taking a basic Civics 101 class, please.
The United States of America has never been and I hope to God never will be a true Democracy.
Democracy is just a fancy name for mob rule.
socialist policies and entitlement program
Nonsense. First the word entitlement means just that and is used to brainwash people like yourself into meaning someone is giving somebody something. No SS is an entitlement program because the people getting SS paid into it in order to take from it later. Medicare could be termed that way if you stretch it but that would mean Conservatives are then socialist because they funded it and the prescription drug program for seniors. Every tax cut and every right off can be called an entitlement if you choose and again we are back to the same argument. If you look at the majority of social programs in effect one by one you will see that Republicans have the lead in sponsooring them but those go mostly to the rich. The only ones that affect the "common" people seem to be the ones that right wingers seem to have a problem with and they get people like yourself l worked up with their panties in a knot over something that isn't even there. Having social programs in a government does not mean the government is then socialist unless you are a right wingnut
Breadex
I have one word for you........... "IDIOT"
breadex
And every single subsidy that is given to American Corporations (especially those that are already making record profits.... like Oil Corporations who get a 4 billion dollar subsidy, the entire agriculture industry, oh and those tax subsidies for American Corporations that move jobs overseas) is a ummm.. entitlement too right?
Mmmm.. .Guess we could call it 'Social Welfare too right'? We the people get to subsidize corporations because they just can't seem to make enough profit off us already.
It's About Time, oil companies do not receive subsidies in any of the normal senses of the term. The feds pay them to drill in areas that they would rather not due to high cost of drilling, unlikelihood of finding oil, high cost of transportation, other reasons. The govt does this for various reasons, one of which is to keep drilling out of sensitive, but probably lucrative, areas. The notion that oil companies get a govt check that goes straight to their bottom line is nonsense.
That said, I too oppose oil company subsidies regardless of the form. Always have, always will.
DarnThatDream
I am with you... but they actually do receive subsidies... and the GOP protects it... I think any corporation that has record profits doesn't need our help in getting there.
Thank you for the post.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-29/senate-fails-to-advance-bill-repealing-oil-tax-breaks-correct-.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-29/obama-says-oil-company-profits-justify-ending-u-s-tax-br.html
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/03/29/454789/senate-republicans-protect-big-oil-subsidies-as-their-gasoline-profits-soar/
IN 51-47 VOTE, SENATE REPUBLICANS PROTECT BIG OIL SUBSIDIES AS GASOLINE PROFITS SOAR | By a nearly party-line vote of 51-47, the U.S. Senate failed to get the 60 votes needed to eliminate $24 billion in taxpayer subsidies for the five richest oil companies. The Republicans filibustered legislation by Sen. Bob Menendez (D-NJ) which would have cut the subsidies to pay for investment in wind power and energy efficiency. Democrats who joined the Republicans included Sens. Mary Landrieu (D-LA), Ben Nelson (D-NE), Mark Begich (D-AK), and Jim Webb (D-VA). Sen. Susan Collins (R-ME) and retiring Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-ME) broke ranks and voted to cut the tax breaks.
Save the Banks and screw the people. Seems I've seen this before. Brace yourselves my friends in Spain. The politicians will make you pay for the stupid mistakes of your banks. While the banks will be smiling all the way. Us Americians are well educated on these affairs.
IN saving the banks you save the people. What is better for a employee...Giving him a $5,000 severence package and having him lose his job or giving the company $5,000 for every employee and ensuring that they all have a job.
I just hope these banks, that are "too big to fail" are not too big to be held accountable like in the U.S.
@PAF
That sounds like "socialism" idea to me, so I guess it's perfectly fine for corporation to be on "welfare" programs.
Bad idea!
Bailouts don't work! Stop the Spending!
The problem is not the spending. The problem is the consumption. The problem is country after country that no longer produces enough to sell abroad to earn money to pay for the stuff they consume. So each country's money supply drains out and the government wildly overspends in order to borrow money to pump back into the economy to prevent the money supply from shrinking.
This is a major problem with the equilibrium system that should be in place to ensure that each country does not consume more than they can afford to. We broke this system in 1971 and now we're paying the price.
The answer is to go back to basics produce your own products put the people back to work and if you have to get something from abroad tarrif it.
Hey let these Spainish screwups put that booty they claimed and got from a croocked judges from the American divers who found it fair and square. That is enough gold bullion to keep them afloat for quite some time. Just like them to suck up all the free stuff without putting forth any effort. Melt it down and put it on the open market to bouy their economy instead of bullying and coppong out. Should hang that bunch of judges and let the Spanish economy get scuttled.
If you're smart, you'll start stockpiling freezed dried food, water, guns, ammo, gold, silver and commodities like toilet paper, medicine/first aid supplies.
We are headed for a financial doomsday which will make the Great Depression look like a financial blip. Here's how it will happen:
1) China and other lending nations will stop lending us money
2) The US will be forced to curtail spending by 40%, which means essentially cutting funding to all entitlement programs
3) People will panic, withdraw money from banks, causing even more financial disaster
4) There will be rioting in the streets, looting on a massive scale, and people killing each other for food
5) The government will begin to print money on a massive scale which which will devalue the dollar to nearly worthless
6) Bread will be $10 per loaf and people will not be able to afford to buy food
7) Only those with preparations and the ability to grow their own food will prosper
Prepare now, sheeple.
You know, if people like you are the ones that survive, I think I would rather die.
Have a nice trip because he is right but the bread may be 50 bucks a loaf
B-b-b-b-b-b-b-but the governnment will be there to help us?
My line is that we have a war with Iran and oil goes up like crazy and we have an economic collapse with the result being riots and chaos.Obama does this before the elections and declares martial law.Its the only way i see him staying in power.
Hmmmm, give mre money to those in debt, sounds like a excellent solution!
Hmmmm, give mre money to those in debt, sounds like a excellent solution!
Bout as bad as reelcting the same bunch of jerk Republicans to fix our financial problems that created them in the first place.
Yeah its all because of those evil repubs,the dems are all saintly poor people,none are rich.
Something we all need to wake up and realize. For several decades the Western world has figured they could consume more than they produce. This brilliant thinking seemed to originate in the 1970s with the abandoning of the gold standard. Rather than using a system designed to maintain an equilibrium in wealth transfer around the world, the West brilliant decided to instead rig the banking system to allow it to endless make new money as the old money was used up. In some cases this is outright money printing at the central bank, but often it simple entails having the banks lend out more money than they have - far more - up to 30 times more in the worst cases. So the result has been that the wealth and prosperity we seemed to have enjoyed in the past 40 years wasn't real - because behind it the money we were all spending was borrowed. It wasn't borrowed from someone in most cases, it was borrowed from the future. And now is the future and we have to pay up. We, the people of 2012 have to pay for the lifestyle of the people that came before us enjoyed over the past 40 years.
Europe is in debt trouble. The stability of an entire region is teetering on the edge of a major collapse. The European banks stress test was an optimistic display of confidence. Google for "European bank kondratieff wave" It is not going to stand anything close to 2008. Few banks failed the European bank stress test. But that test did not consider anything close to 2008 crash. Greece was the poster boy of the crisis and now after Ireland, Portugal the crisis is expanding into Spain and even Italy is making news. France and Belgium are next in line. PIIGS are in trouble but it does not stop there. Some Germans want irresponsible spenders to be excluded from the Euro monetary union. But did Ireland get into debt trouble because of excessive public spending? No. Ireland was an example of fiscal responsibility. But debt based monetary system does not take hostages. In countries where debt crisis did not hit yet, people think they are somehow special. PIIGS are to blame and the rest is fine. But crisis won't stop there. Almost no one foresaw the disintegration of venerable companies like Bear Sterns, Lehman Brothers back in early 2008. Most still balk at the idea of a major sovereign nation defaulting. They say UK is not Greece, Italy is not Ireland, Spain is not Greece. The only thing that separates them is the fragile confidence that they are somehow different. When the deflationary crash asserts itself, debt crisis is not going to pick and choose victims.
They all have the same currency and will all develope problems. Get rid of the new world order it was designed to control the world through currency.
Folks, the reason for the Riots and Revolutions going on in the Middle East is due to High Unemployment, Poverty, Middle Class being wiped out, Financial Injustice and Oppression from their Government. The Financial Business gets Bailed Outs for Major Mistakes and the Middle Class gets the Shaft. Sound Familiar? Don’t be surprised when it happens here.
For years this Country has been ran by by the Lobbyist, Special Interest, and the Self Righteous. It’s gotten to the point where the young people are fed up with the Greed and Corruption in our system. It has reached a Boiling Point.
All Politicians are nothing more than Political Puppets. Every move they make is controlled by the Lobbyist, Special Interest, and the Self Righteous.
Half of all money raised by Politicians (Including Super PAC’S) should go towards the National Debt and Charity. Why don't we "Tax" the Millions of dollars that they collect for their Campaigns?
They should also pay for their own Security out of these Campaign Funds.
Agree! Also need to rid them of their premium taxpayer paid healthcare for life. The perks they get are ridiculous!
That's what happens when you can vote to raise your own pay.
I heard they would have to vote for term limits on themselves! sure that'll happen.
Let it be a lesson to all you socialists, favoring handouts and other free money. As we all know, it does not grow on trees. Taxes collected from those who work should not be given to freeloaders.
You mean like the military industrial complex. Wasting billions on meaningless wars does have consequences. Instead of investing them in research, education and economic development, they scattered them across the poppy fields trying to create a country out of a stone age tribal society. Can you hear me now?
Look up the word Socialism you may be surprised to know what it means.
Socialism is where the government takes control of private businesses. How is that applicable here? The government is bailing out the banks, not taking them over.
I've had this argument before about "what socialism means" and I copy and paste the definition and liberals don't like how it sounds too much like what we're doing. So here's the skinny...socialism means different things to different nations. The new guy in charge in France is a self proclaimed socialist, it meant something different in the old Soviet Union and here, well here it means 50% makin' and 50% takin'.
Just did. It had a picture of Obama. :)
Me: The difference is that the military is a constitutional mandate. Social programs are not. Change the constitituion if you wish, but Obama has also had his fair share using the military.
As to your point about waste in the military, I agree completely. I also have no problem with cutting out a lot of the bases we have around the world if they give us no strategic advantage. I thought Boehner was a hypocritical little POS for wanting the "alternate" engine for the F22 Raptor because it was going to be built in his district. Thankfully, that was not funded.
But as to your point about "economic development", that's code for more government spending. We're 16 trillion in debt. Time to cut out that BS too.
I liked that speech by Panetta saying we needed new ships and to expand our presence in asia.I wonder what he smokes.
Now is the time to stock up on rice, beans, canned meat, veggies, fruit, soup, etc...
Food prices here in the USA will start going up, buying now will save you money and maybe SAVE YOU... later
No they won't. Prices only go up when there is too much money in the system. We send $500 billion overseas to pay for our imports each year. As long as we do that, we're draining our money supply and inflation isn't going to be a problem.
The Largest holder of US Debt is the Federal Reserve. Think about that.
The following food items have increased this year, Corn, Wheat, Peanut butter, Soup, Bread, Meat, and about 50 other items.
If you do not think food will be more expensive in 6 months.. you have not been living in the USA for the last 2 years.
I thought 3 months ago was the time to start stocking up on those items. Before that it was 8 months ago that was the time and then a year ago? Could it just be that any time is a good time to have a decent supply of food and survival items, at least in case of a disaster?