I totally agree.

The only thing Hitler should be thanked for is putting a bullet in his head.

Something just doesn't seem right about this. I know the Haredi do not believe the state of Israel should have been set up before the coming of the Messiah, but it is hard for me to believe that any group of Jews would thank Hitler for murdering 6 million of their own people. I wonder if someone isn't trying to set the Haredi up. Perhaps one of their enemies, like someone or some group inside the government of the state of Israel

Mickey - I would have to believe the Haredi were trying for sarcasm?

I dont know much about the Haredi, but my gut says what they would have preferred was no holocaust, thus no Isreal. And perhaps they believe that uber-pro-isreal people would rather have had the holocaust, so that they could get their Isreal.

you dont always get what you want, but you get what you need...and they needed Isreal, it just took 6 million jewish deaths (and how many millions of non jews) to make it happen. They call that collateral damage I believe.

Has anyone clued these guys into the fact that waitimg for the messiah could tale a while? 4000 years and coumting.

How about a compromise? To placate the Haredi, they should keep a Jerusalem hotel room vacant and reserved in the name of Moshiach at all times. Just in case he comes back.

Jessica,

Christians did not move Jews to Israel. The United States ( a secular nation, remember) led the statehood effort so Jews would have someplace to live after WW2.

Many Christians strongly support Israel and believe it is the Biblical land of their ancestors.

I believe today Jews are free to live pretty much wherever they want.

Regarding the Messiah returning, we are not privy to God's timetable. Could be tomorrow. Could be 10,000 years.

"Why can't we all just get along?"

Much has been made of that phrase...usually in a comedic or facetious context. Still, after witnessing so much hatred based solely on beliefs, it says it all for me.

If you're religious, you wait in anticipation of the Messiah, regardless what form (or none) you believe how He/She will arrive.

For me, I'll wait until humans regard each other as brother and sister regardless of personal belief.

Something tells me that, sadly, I'll wait just as long.

Good catch historyman

Good thing spelling mistakes completely discount someone else's opinion. Good to see the spelling police are out in full force.

Historyman,

You know that old expression "People who live in glass houses..."? Well, I just took a look at some of the posts you've made and I think you'd better take heed. You've made some typos, too. Meanwhile, how many posts do think you've made complaining of how tired you are of hearing about the Holocaust? Can you say anti-Semite?

Mickey - I would have to believe the Haredi were trying for sarcasm?

entirely possible, the article states that the Haredi blame the zionists of "cooperating with the nazis", so such a comment would fit rather well.

hey historyman, if you are "so tired of hearing about the holocaust" then why do you waste your time and everybody else's time bitching about it?

perhaps you should move to Iran with the rest of the deniers?

How rude--as if there wasn't enough hatred in the world...

People like these are a danger to civilized societies.

Gary420 (post 1.8)

Me thinx you've been at the "420" too much.

"I believe today Jews are free to live pretty much wherever they want."

Really ? Orange County, California; where there is still more anti-Jewish violence, then there is anti Muslim;

Norway, where a Jew can't even wear his Yarmulke without getting beaten.

Germany, where, despite valient government efforts to stem antisemitism, 3 officials were elected who blame Europe's economic downfall on Jews.

The U.N., who condemns Israel for being a "Jewish State", but have NO problem with the 16 "Islamic States" in the region.

You obviously know not of what you speak.

AND...Historian, at Post 1.9 ? see post 1.14 - it goes double for me.

Mickey-1983943

Something just doesn't seem right about this. I know the Haredi do not believe the state of Israel should have been set up before the coming of the Messiah, but it is hard for me to believe that any group of Jews would thank Hitler for murdering 6 million of their own people. I wonder if someone isn't trying to set the Haredi up. Perhaps one of their enemies, like someone or some group inside the government of the state of Israel

That is similar to my first impression too. Although there is deep, religious disagreement on the establishment of the Jewish state, I don't think that the Haredi would be so hateful towards their own kind especially if they live in the area too. It would be a bit hypocritical.

Does anyone have an example of other Haredi acts of vandalism or violence towards the Zionists? If not it is more plausible to believe this was a frame-up job by a Muslim group (whether organized or just a bunch of punk-a$$ kids). The accusation that modern Jews are so evil they would sacrifice 6 million of their own in order to gain land is pretty severe and would most likely take someone who is against the faith all together in order to be that callous.

... I suppose denying the Holocaust ever happened would have been too much of a dead give away, huh?

Historyman, I'm sorry to say that the misspelling of Israel to Isreal is a very common slur here on NewsVine, if you haven't noticed it in the past. I don't know if Jessica meant it that way or if it was an honest typo. Poster 9.2 is a prime example of someone that uses this misspelling on a regular basis. As far as you being tired of the Holocaust subject, I'm sorry that it ever happened but I would never say that I'm tired of the subject for one reason and one reason alone:

lest we forget...

I hope that the perps are caught soon and brought to justice. Their hatred is sorrowful. The defacing of any memorial is repugnant.

Mickey, never underestimate the powers of HATE and DENIAL. These small, Ultra-Orthodox Sects feel they are the only True Jews (sound familiar? Many of the Right-wing Christians in the US feel the same way about other Christians). For these few Jewish people, things must happen the way they and they alone expect them to occur. Since many have also only ever lived in the area known as Palestine up to the founding of Israel, they have no sympathy for what happened to 6 million people who share the same, but not as Orthodox, faith. This is not surprising as many Jewish people whose families did suffer at the hands of the Nazi's ignore the fact that 12+ million people died in the concentration and work camps, fixating upon only the largest group- their own. Over 6 million others also died because they were Slavs, Poles, Mentally Ill, Intelligentsia, Christian Priests and Ministers who preached against what was happening, Gays, Romani (Gypsy), and a whole host of others the Nazi's deemed unfit or sub-human. There are even reports of Allied POW's dying in those camps because of their faith or skin color (though the number is thought to be small).

So if the greater number of people of this faith can ignore those others who died for who and what they were, same as the Jews who died, is it so hard to imagine people driven by hate and dogma doing something like this? They have shown in the past not only the willingness to kill, but to actually carry it out, against others of the same religion. Hatred makes people do horrible things, so a "Thank you, Hitler" isn't hard to imagine, not when they have actually killed before. I suppose everyone should be thankful that in this instance it was just a hateful message and not bullets.

CelticPagan,

Maybe you have a point there. I just checked Haredi out with Zionism.com, which is a pro-Zionist web site, and they say some extreme sects of the Haredi have been know to cooperate with the enemies of Israel such as the PLO. Apparently, there are some Jews with very strange ideas. You can check it out at this link:

http://www.zionism-israel.com/dic/Haredi.htm

who is tired of hearing about the holocaust?

I will never get tired of hearing about the holocaust. The world should never forget. I am very tired of seeing hatred.

Lolly,

http://www.ourjewishcommunity.org/2012/01/03/beitshemesh/

Chefaz,

A lot of suffering has been going on in the past 70 years since the holocaust. How about we spare some time for people suffering other than Jews 70 years ago? Or make movie #7,478 about the holocaust include non-jew victims since there was more of them tortured and murdered in the holocaust than Jews.

Ophotfoot,

The only thing relating to the Holocaust I'm tired of hearing about is your repeated drivel. We've already collapsed one of your posts. Trying for a second, are you?

Gary420 (post 1.8)

The United States ( a secular nation, remember) led the statehood effort so Jews would have someplace to live after WW2.

Not really though.

The road to statehood was extremely complicated and had many shifting loyalties.

There is a lot of misinformation out there.

The British got the momentum going in the international community before realizing that arab oil was more important to their interests than was keeping their word to the Jews.

The UN basically gave the State legal status with Resolution 181 in '47.

The bottom line is that it was Jewish people that led the effort.

It is the Jewish people that deserve credit.

I'm not Jewish, but I have found reading about the history of Israel going back thousands of years, to be very interesting.

Heres how times change. The article reads:

Haredi are ultra-Orthodox extremists, some of whom regard modern-day Israel as an abomination, believing the establishment of the Jewish state must await the coming of the Messiah.

The history books read:

The principal non-Zionist Orthodox Jewish (or Haredi) party, Agudat Israel, recommended to UNSCOP that a Jewish state be set up after reaching a religious status quo agreement with Ben-Gurion regarding the future Jewish state. The agreement would grant exemption to a quota of yeshiva (religious seminary) students and to all orthodox women from military service, would make the Sabbath the national weekend, promised Kosher food in government institutions and would allow them to maintain a separate education system.

Wow Ophotfoot...there's plenty published and produced on so many different subjects of human suffering...past, present and even futuristic - historical and fiction. The holocaust is a whole lot more than just suffering (as if that weren't enough) and the fact that you would reference it in this way, well...you're speaking volumes on a whole lot more than "just tired of hearing about it". What did you expect when you read and commented on this article devoted to the defacing of a holocaust memorial??? Why did you bother to read it??? Why wouldn't you have moved on to a different subject once you read the title??? MSNBC provides a cornucopia of news pieces from all over the world on a variety of things. You only needed to pass over this one and you wouldn't be so tired.

chefaz,

I see I am dealing with a know all psychiatrist, philosopher, etc.. so I'll keep it simple. I comment on what I want, I live in the U.S.A. not Israel. So I am free to do that. If you only want to give your opinions and not read others I guess you better be taking your own advice and read the article and move on.

Ophotfoot, if you are truly interested in other holocaust victims, I'm glad to be able to provide this information to you.

http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/holocaust.html

OOPS - I see that you didn't waste any time twisting my meaning or insulting me. My questions were honest queries. Have a great day, anyway.

Chefaz,

I guess when you said:

"The holocaust is a whole lot more than just suffering (as if that weren't enough) and the fact that you would reference it in this way, well...you're speaking volumes on a whole lot more than "just tired of hearing about it".

I took that to mean you are a psychiatrist that knows what people really mean when they say something. Or maybe you were giving your philosophy of my thoughts. I honestly mean that. If you take that as an insult or twisting your meaning, dont blame me I'm just one of many people that spend some spare time posting opinions on message boards. I mean have you seen the programming on TV and in theatres lately? You have a great day also, Jesus bless you.

Any extremist group be they Jewish, Christian, Muslim, etc. are exactly that extremist who won't see any other view point but theirs. No one has the right to defame memorials. And just as a note to all the anti Israelis, if it weren't for Israel all your precious shrines would have been turned into mosques and you would not even be able to visit the sites.

Forgetting about the Holocaust would be exactly the wrong thing to do. If you forget, history repeats itself, and this is exactly why we must all keep it alive, especially in today's world when there are so many Muslims, Nazis, white supremists, etc, all of whom are praying for another Holocaust against the Jews. I'm not sure about the few people on here, but in my experience, the only people who are always talking about how the Jews use the Holocaust, many more people died in it, thanking Hitler, the Jews in Israel today are not the real Jews, etc., are the very people I mentioned above, and they all use the same propaganda. I certainly do not blame the Jews for wanting to keep it alive, and I feel that if any others want to do the same, no one is stopping them. I seriously doubt the Jews have anything to do with others not wanting to do the same. The fact of the matter is, the Holocaust was one of the worst, if not the worst, thing that has happened in history. A people tried to wipe out an entire group of people and almost succeeded b/c of hatred. Seriously, I thought all of our hatred of that kind had disappeared up until 9/11 happened. Seriously, people, why in the world would the Jews stop talking about the Holocaust...and it is far from just the Jews making movies, etc...when there are so many people even mimicking the exact same propaganda today as Hitler used and wanting so badly for another Holocaust against the Jews. Jews are, indeed, still attacked all over the world today, by the way. It's disgusting. Sometimes they're even attacked right here in the USA.

Lady Cat,

What "shrines" are you talking about? The ones that were there from Jesus time until the European jews invaded Palestine?? Or the ones the Jews built after 1948 so they could attract tourists and get paid? If the Arab-Jew war for Palestine was only in 1948 who took care of all these "shrines" you mention for the almost 2K years?

Now that idiots like Bush have hijacked Christianity for terrorism and Netanyahu has done the same with Jews, the Palestenians probably would destroy the shrines if given a chance, you know since we bomb their mosques and our troops burn their holy books and piss on their dead.. and Oh yeah we torture them, so there is that.

Ophotfoot, do the words self centered, racist, anti-Semite mean anything to you? They should, as they describe your ranting perfectly! Take your misguided hatemongering somewhere else. Most people here aren't buying it!

I had a feeling, one day, the Holocast would come to this point! I am talking about the Arguing of the "Ignorant". This happens after all truth is lost, and the Rumors begin.

Unless, you were in the "Upper Crust" of the Nazi and Zionist Scheme, you will have never learned the Truth of the Holocast. The number of Six Million only describes the number of prisoners, who were suspectd of being a "Jew". Many innocent Germans, and other Nationalities were sent to the "Death Machines", for reasons, not associated with Jews.

Now, anyone who argues the Holocast, is Ignorant! Those who know the "Cause", will probably never discuss it, with a Jew. Those involved, as Prisoners, are lacking most of the Truth. By that, I mean, they were just innocent people, who didn't understnand the whole process.

How can anyone say; they know how or why the Holocast was a function between Hitler and the Elitists of the Zion? These closely held objectives were never discussed beyone the Rheal of the Few Organizers. As with any action, against significant numbers of peoples, this kind of information is never made public, not even to the original group of facilitators. They were just given basic orders to act.

You can only get close to the Truth, by fully understanding the Protocols of Natism, which is a form of Communism, or Marxism, as people relate to it. The Protocols of Zion, when combination to those Principles for a common cause, are nearly contradictive. By understanding only one principle, or philosopy, so to speak, does not give you the answer to any conspiracy, except it being a cooincedence.

Combined, will give you the Suspicion of a Conspiracy, if you are in that class of people whom are acutely motivated by Polylogical, multi level strategies, you may see the connection between the two.

I suggest; You read Hitlers; "Mein Compf", (correct the spelling if you must) keeping in mind, the Author was a very biased man, against Hitler, and may have sensationalized, and/or stretched the truth, or falsehoods of the man, Hitler, to protray, his hatred for him. One thing is certain, Hitler was a Genius, and a Madman. Now, what about the Portocols of Zion? Have you read those Covenents.

You must read those Protocols, before you have an opinion, for or against anyone of the era of the Holocast. Neither side, has the full story, so you read both sides of those responsible, and understand the innocent, also, who were the Six Millon, who died, needlessly, without understand the motives.

Frankly, I believe there was a conspiracy by the Elitist Zion and Hitler. None of which, can be found as a Fact. But, the only way I can describe it, is: If something smells like a Dead Ghost, it must be a Dead Ghost.

Read the "Protocols of Zion" anyhow. It will make you more knowldgeable about the Jew and the Zion.

Lee

Holocaust is well alive - in Gaza strip where the Palestinians are treated in the hands of idf thugs same way as the jews under nazi in WW2.

Henrich von Dorf- you have it wrong.

It is the Palestinians and Arabs who are acting like the Nazi's in Germany.

During WW2, Hitler's plan was to eradicate all Jews with out mercy. The Nazis used Jews as scapegoat for Germanys own failings.

Israel's Plan is basically to wall the Palestinians off and keep them out of Israel.

The Palestinian's (Hamas's and PLO's) Plan is to eradicate all the Jews and destroy the state of Israel. The PLO and Hamas are using the Jews as scapegoats for their own failing in leadership of the Palestinian people.

Throughout history, various groups blamed the Jews for all their problems. Why shouldn't the Arabs do the same.

The difference here in the 1940s the Jews could not defend themselves. Now the Jews can defend themselves.

Eric-NY,

"Now the Jews can defend themselves."

Right! And they do. Like other groups of people who have been victimized throughout history, they have learned to fight back.

For the People who think that the modern day Jew are not descendants from biblical Israel and Biblical Jerusalem, get your head out the the sand.

This is an idea given by Anti-Semites in order to legitimizes the eradication of the Jews in Israel.

Jerusalem is the city of David. A Jewish city. israel does share the city with other religion. Yes some Jews want all Muslims out, which is wrong.

But when the City was under Muslim control (Jordan) All Jewish site were desecrated. Why would Israel ever let the city fall under Muslim control again? The Palestinian people would kick out all of people who were not Muslim.

Israel allows the Muslim people into the Dome of the Rock. Would the Palestinians allow Jews to go to the Waling Wall? They have not in the past.

Islam respects no other religion besides there own!

Eric-NY,

"For the People who think that the modern day Jew are not descendants from biblical Israel and Biblical Jerusalem, get your head out the the sand.

This is an idea given by Anti-Semites in order to legitimizes the eradication of the Jews in Israel."

Many of an anti-Semitic bent try to claim that the modern Jews are not descendants of the ancient Israelite by saying that they are the descendants of the Khazars and therefore not a Semitic people at all. That theory was popularized by Arthur Koestler, the author of the novel Darkness at Noon, in a book called The Thirteenth Tribe. Here is a quote from the introduction to that book:

"This book traces the history ofthe ancient Khazar Empire, a major but almost forgotten power in Eastern
Europe, which in the Dark Ages became converted to Judaism. Khazaria was finally wiped out by the forces of Genghis Khan, but evidence indicates that the Khazars themselves migrated to Poland and formed the cradle of Western Jewry…
The Khazars’ sway extended from the Black Sea to the Caspian, from the Caucasus to the Volga, and they were instrumental in stopping the Muslim onslaught against Byzantium, the eastern jaw of the gigantic pincer movement that in the West swept across northern Africa and into Spain.
In the second part of this book, “The Heritage,” Mr. Koestler speculates about the ultimate faith of the Khazars and their impact on the racial composition and social heritage of modern Jewry. He produces a large body of meticulously detailed research in support of a theory that sounds all the more convincing for the restraint with which it is advanced. Yet should this theory be confirmed, the term “anti-Semitism” would become void of meaning, since, as Mr. Koestler writes, it is based “on a misapprehension shared by both the killers and their victims. The story of the Khazar Empire, as it slowly emerges from the past, begins to look like the most cruel hoax which history has ever perpetrated.”

I think though that has been disproved by recent genetic test and DNA studies that show a Middle Eastern descent for the Jewish people. No doubt there has been a lot of inter-mixture with other nationalities over the centuries through intermarriage with those of the nations of Europe and northern Africa, but the Jews are basically of Middle Eastern origin. They are not the descendants of the Khazars, although the Khazars were converted to the Jewish religion. It's just the anti-Semite's way of avoiding the charge of being anti-Semitic by claiming that the Jews are not really Semites at all.

Mickey - You should get a job writing fairy tales, because the yarn you just spun is a fairy tale. There is no way in hell that Eastern European Jews are descended from those that lived in the ME thousands of years ago. Those Jews are of the same peoples as the Palestinians, which you so intensely hate. The Palestinians and their ancestors before them, have lived on in the land, now called Israel, for thousands of years, never interrupted for any reason. It was only in 1948 when they were driven off their land that they left.

The Zionists of today, hate the people they stole from. Perhaps they have some small consciense that reminds them of the evil they have perpetrated.

"If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with
Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it
to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been
Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They
see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would
they accept that?"

"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not
even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because
geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab
villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz
Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar
Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in
this country that did not have a former Arab population."

Moshe Dayan, address to the Technion, Haifa, reported in
Haaretz, April 4, 1969.

David Ben Gurion (first Israeli PM, quoted by Nahum Goldmann
in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.

"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and
the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab
population."

Israel Koenig, "The Koenig Memorandum"

RalphH,

"Those Jews are of the same peoples as the Palestinians, which you so intensely hate."

I know you hate Jews because I have seen your posts elsewhere here on Newsvine, but where in the world did you get the idea that I hate Palestinians; much less "intensely" hate them? I did not say a word about Palestinians. I have never been big on hating anyone, and I do not hate Palestinians. As for research on the Middle Eastern ancestry of Jews, you can check out this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews

Ralph,

Palestinians are Arabs. Arabs came to the Judah after the Muslim invasion (Crusade) around 660 AD. Thus the majority of the Palestinians have no Jewish blood in them, because the majority of their descendants came from the Arabian Peninsula.

Arabs come from the Arabian Peninsula, Not from Judah. Thus the Palestinians come from the Arabian Peninsula and not from Judah.

Anyone who voices opposition to israel policy is not necessary hating jews or anti-semite.

Henrich von Dorf,

"Anyone who voices opposition to israel policy is not necessary hating jews or anti-semite."

That's true in most cases, but they often are anti-Semitic and just use their opposition to Israeli policy as a cover for their hatred of Jews.

Well Mickey, I oppose to israel middle east policy but do not hate jews. Quite the contrary I am quite fond of a number of jewish female folks I know with whom I had inimtate relationships in the past.

Well, jewish girls are the best. That's why every nation that ever tried to wipe out or enslave jews would always stop to have some fun with the ladies.

Why would the hypocritical anti-seimites of today be any different?

Actually it should be the Zionists themselves that painted up the memorial. Wall Street backed Hitler because they were against communism and pro corporate fascism. And yes, other Jewish people were involved in the Bolshevik Revolution. Zionists made the Haavara agreement with Hitler. Although all bankers are not Jewish, there were certainly Jews working at the Bank of International Settlements and they were Hitler's bankers right up through 1945. We always hear that 6 million Jews died in the concentration camps. Well some who died there were Gypsies and some 3 million were Polish Christians yet there is no memorial for them. Also somewhere between 50 and 80 million people died as a result of WWII yet some Jews act as if only Jews died in the war and it is all our faults. Where is the memorial for the 50+ million that died so the bankers and war profiteers could get so filthy rich? Yet it is historical fact that bankers financed both sides of WWI and WWII profiting off of those wars while the rest of the world suffered. It is well proven and historical fact that certain Jews were involved in banking since Emperor Constantine and the Counsel of Nicaea. We still have Bernanke and Geitner dishing out over 16.1 trillion $ to the international banksters since the 2008 phoney bail out. As you can tell I like Norman Finkelstein and Gilad Atzom so don't even try any anti-Semitic BS in attempt to discredit and pervert true history. Why would they have attacked themselves? Well remember there were 12 tribes of Israel back in the day and they attacked and killed one another all the time. Yes, "why would they attack themselves" was also a reason 9/11 was never properly independently investigated...infinite greed is a very powerful thing; so close to the god of the old Testament.

WOW ... KUDOS...

ralphie, another useless and ignorant jew-hater

Religious extreemism is the single largest threat we face, regardless of denomination or creed. And all this psychotic behaviour is being fueled by a belief in an imaginary thing. Pathetic!

Your OPINIONS hardly matter. Don't understand why Religious beliefs of ANY individual causes athiests or non-believers so much anguish. Their beliefs are THEIR beliefs......your ridiculous cynicism and criticism will not convert them . Get a life. Pathetic!!!

Hmm...hatred, intolerance, and disdain for "others". Yep, you two sound like fundamentalist extremists of your own belief systems.

I wish I could say this article surprised me (all right, it did a little), but radical acts by extremists is nothing new, be it religion, environmentalism, nationalism, and all the other ways we pit one group of people against another. Pretending we're right while everyone else is wrong is the first step towards wanting to strike back.

There is always another side. It may not be as right as your side, but it is to those who believe it. Demonizing someone who doesn't agree with you makes you part of the problem, too.

(I'm speaking generally here, not supporting radical acts.)

allens - You are a dark part of civilization. Religion is the light.

religion has caused more war, torture, death and destruction than ANY other cause in history!! beliefs are fine as long as you keep your mouth shut and do not try to convert everyone else to your foolish beliefs.

double post

Your OPINIONS hardly matter. Don't understand why Religious beliefs of ANY individual causes athiests or non-believers so much anguish. Their beliefs are THEIR beliefs......your ridiculous cynicism and criticism will not convert them . Get a life. Pathetic!!!

I will always find this to be the most ironic thing ever. I dont believe in a god that cares about humans, but i dont hate those that do. I actually despise the atheists, like enq, who try to push their secular agenda on society far mor than the church pushes their agenda.

"OMG!!! Did you see that thing that could be construde as a cross over there? Im so offended!!!"

religion has caused more war, torture, death and destruction than ANY other cause in history!! beliefs are fine as long as you keep your mouth shut and do not try to convert everyone else to your foolish beliefs.

When was the last war based on religion exactly?

"religion has caused more war, torture, death and destruction than ANY other cause in history!! beliefs are fine as long as you keep your mouth shut and do not try to convert everyone else to your foolish beliefs."

If there was no religion we would find other reasons to kill each other. Politicians will always scare people into war, religion is what they hijack because it makes it so easy to manipulate the many people who need an afterlife to not be scared and depressed. Greed and power is the real issue behind all the killing.

Truda... How about Iraq and Afghanistan??? recent enough??

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

the Bush administration was using Bible passages (both Old and New Testaments) on cover sheets of security reports, emblazoned on top of pictures of our armed forces. The implication was clear - this was a religious war, and our troops were fighting for the God of the Bible.

GQ has a bunch of these cover sheets, hand delivered by Donald Rumsfeld to the White House.

Again and again, security updates were adorned with bible passages. "Open the gates that the righteous nation may enter, the nation that keeps faith (Isaiah 26:2)." "Behold, the eye of the LORD is on those who fear Him, On those who hope for His loving kindness, To Deliver their soul from death. (Psalm 33:16-19)."

"Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. (Ephesians 6:13)."

True. But if it wasn't religion it would be something else. It's human nature that needs repair.

@ trudat6445:

The war on terror is ongoing-- and it is a religious war, make no mistake about that: Islam against the rest of the world.

Beliefs are not the problem, ignorance and extremism are.The ignorant person who hears his imam promise 72 virgins if he becomes a martyr to the Jihad probably believes the Imam-- who is likely the only person or one of the few people in the village who know how to read and write.

Education is the only answer and it takes years to see the results of education, so politicians who need tangible achievements in 2-6 years don't invest in long-term projects like education, which will only show results after those who started the program are long out of office.

The same Haredim are uneducated in anything but Torah-- most of them don't learn languages, history, math, sciences, computer programming or any other useful subject, just Torah.

The strangest thing is that in doing so, and living on grants while studying Torah (thereby making it a breadwinning profession) these same purported Torah scholars violate the principles of Judaism by their actions.

Their solution is that ALL Jews must be like them before the Messiah comes... if that's what the Messiah wants, then I discontinue my subscription today.

Iraq and afghanistan wars have zero to do with religion, religion was used as a basis to get some people interested, the wars are about oil, control and to some extent defense.

The terrorists in charge dont hate us because of religion, they hate us out of principle, they brainwash the ignorant using religion.

Don't understand why Religious beliefs of ANY individual causes athiests or non-believers so much anguish.

When I see discrimination based upon religion it causes me anguish. When people legislate away rights based on religion it causes me anguish. When people vandalize holocaust memorials due to religion it causes me anguish. When people kill others, fly planes into buildings, and plant bombs due to religion it causes me anguish.

People worshiping in their churches and homes and taking comfort in their religion doesn't bother me in the least.

Their beliefs are THEIR beliefs......your ridiculous cynicism and criticism will not convert them . Get a life. Pathetic!!!

I have no desire to "convert" anyone. I just made a factual observation. I have a very good life devoid of wasting my time in church or wasting my brain away believing in fairy tales.

I always think of the Sarah McLaclan song Dear God when I read about stuff like this

And all the people that you made in your image,
See them fighting in the street
'Cause they can't make opinions meet

About God

trudat6445 wrote, "When was the last war based on religion exactly?"

The question of "last" war makes it seem like you want the ones that have ended. Do you want a list of the ones that are currently ongoing or just ones that have already ended? Shiites and Sunnis fight religion based wars daily. Essentially every war in the Middle East is anchored in religion (killing infidels, jihad, etc.), Protestants and Catholics bombed each other for years in Northern Ireland. The Crusades. The thirty years war. Palestine v. Israel. Ethiopia v. Somalia. Major factions of Buddhists fighting Muslims was just reported today. I have to get back to work, but take a quick trip around Google.

Hmm...hatred, intolerance, and disdain for "others". Yep, you two sound like fundamentalist extremists of your own belief systems

I have no problem with "others", just people who kill, vandalize, discriminate and legislate away rights (regardless of their motivation). It just happens that religious extremism invites in these things. In contrast I have no issues with moderate religious types that don't force themselves on others.

I actually despise the atheists, like enq, who try to push their secular agenda on society far mor than the church pushes their agenda

Very few athiests push any agenda. I have never sued anyone over religion, made a complaint, etc. At most I bitch about religion when it is the motivating factor behind incidents like this, and rightly so.

I hear far more complaints from the religious community about not being able to lead prayers in school, not sharing public displays with other religions, etc.

The question of "last" war makes it seem like you want the ones that have ended. Do you want a list of the ones that are currently ongoing or just ones that have already ended? Shiites and Sunnis fight religion based wars daily. Essentially every war in the Middle East is anchored in religion (killing infidels, jihad, etc.), Protestants and Catholics bombed each other for years in Northern Ireland. The Crusades. The thirty years war. Palestine v. Israel. Ethiopia v. Somalia. Major factions of Buddhists fighting Muslims was just reported today. I have to get back to work, but take a quick trip around Google.

Aside from the crusades (which was very recent), the problems between jews in israel is the only one truly based in religion, there were religious factions drawn into the other "conflicts" but they were not based on religion. Most are the equivilant of blaming Israel vs palestine as religious, sure the people in charge are trying to brainwash the masses with that dialogue, but its about land not religion.

Very few athiests push any agenda. I have never sued anyone over religion, made a complaint, etc. At most I bitch about religion when it is the motivating factor behind incidents like this, and rightly so.

I hear far more complaints from the religious community about not being able to lead prayers in school, not sharing public displays with other religions, etc.

That's strange, because you see all the time organizations like FFRF suing cities all over the place (only cash strapped cities because they are cowards and bullies), to force their agendas on communities they have no association to.

But yea, atheists never force their agendas on anyone.

BK and others with similar comments: I'm neither a believer, nor a non-believer since I've seen no proof yet that either side is the correct view. HOWEVER, I can say it is not the beliefs of the believers that rile up those of us who have not made up our minds yet ... it is the sheer hypocrisy of not living the beliefs and value systems of the adopted religions that are so disgusting. The cherrypicking of specific beliefs in order to denounce others also irritates. All believers and non-believers should tend to their own souls or lives and leave judging to the Almighty.

The FFRF has sued over a state social services agency hiring a chaplain, keeping bible instructions out of public schools, etc. They have had 7 suits (not including appeals) total. That's not very many.

In contrast, churches have filed 12 lawsuits IN ONE DAY regarding contraceptive mandates.

When was the last war based on religion exactly?

This might be the dumbest thing I've seen posted so far this year.

The words "Allahu akbar" mean anything to you?

but its about land not religion.

Exactly. Followers of one religion want the followers of another religion off their land.

Extremists of any form are dangerous. Adolph Hitler, who was totally against any form of religion instigated a war that killed over 40mil people total. Although he aimed at the total destruction of the Jewish people, his war was not based on any particular religion. But for German control of the land and the people on it.

Trudat...you are always on here attacking others. You just like to stir up trouble. Are you really denying the existence of religious wars? Sure, you can find other reasons besides religion in a lot of conflicts (including the Crusades). I'm just not sure why you are making such blanket statements...You argue about others being brainwashed, but what makes you the enlightened one? How do you get all of your facts?

The bottom line is that religion is often one of the reasons why people go to war or even criticize the lifestyle of others. That is wrong...

Trudat...you are always on here attacking others. You just like to stir up trouble.

Who have i attacked? I made fun of the irony of the outspoken atheists who try to push their agenda on everyone. I stated that wars where religion was used as the scape-goat werent religious wars, i dont see that as attacking, do you?

I dont stir the pot usually, i usually just make fun of what hypocrites libs are, i suppose to a hypocrite lib that would be stirring the pot though.

I made fun of the irony of the outspoken atheists who try to push their agenda on everyone.

You failed miserably I might add. And wherein did we promote any agenda? I think it's all in your head.

I stated that wars where religion was used as the scape-goat werent religious wars,

If religion is motivation for people to go to war (regardless of the "real" motivation behind the conflict) then it is at least partially attributable to religion. If the bulk of popular support for a war is based on religion, then it is a religious war. Parse it however you wish, religion CAUSES those wars as much as any ulterior motivation.

You failed miserably I might add. And wherein did we promote any agenda? I think it's all in your head.

When atheists constantly claim that anyone that believes in mythological figures is stupid, sick, crazy, ill, retarded or whatever you come up with, then yes you are pushing an agenda.

A war based on religion is a war in which people are trying to change the religion of or eliminate those they are fighting with, if these are not the goals, then it is not a religious war. Fighting a predominantly muslim army with a predominantly christian military to gain land or oil, is not a religious war.

When atheists constantly claim that anyone that believes in mythological figures is stupid, sick, crazy, ill, retarded or whatever you come up with, then yes you are pushing an agenda.

I'd consider that stating a mere opinion. I did not attempt to "convert" anyone, or change opinions. I have not advocated any change in laws, or modification of behaviour. If you consider that an "agenda" then every opinion stated by anyone is an "agenda".

A war based on religion is a war in which people are trying to change the religion of or eliminate those they are fighting with, if these are not the goals, then it is not a religious war. Fighting a predominantly muslim army with a predominantly christian military to gain land or oil, is not a religious war.

That is a very narrow definition of "religious war". The crusades were for occupation of land (not to convert or eliminate the people, per se). By your definition this is not a religious war. We entered Afganistan in reprisal for 911. The people who committed 911 were motivated almost exclusively through religion. But since we were not trying to kill/convert Muslims it's not religious by your definition. Likewise, all Taliban fighters are motivated by their religion (just see what happens when a koran gets burned). Still stand by that at least some of the blame doesn't belong to religion?

What do liberals have to do with it? Religious wars have nothing to do with "hypocrite libs". There are plenty of conservative Republicans who believe in religious wars. In fact, history backs that up and conservatives often refer to it. You are rewriting history and claiming it has something to do with liberals...strange.

If an enemy soldier saying allah akbar makes a war a holy way, then every war the USA has ever been in has been one because many of our soldiers pray to god also before, during and after battles. I do not think a soldier praying or chaplins or Rabbi's giving a prayer before a battle qualifys a war as a holy war.

Bob Bob, those Jews against Zionism are usually radical leftists...and many anti-Zionists on this site DO turn out to be plain old fashioned Jew baiters in about three postings. It would be pretty hard for the Zionists to be anti-Semites anyway, since they and the Arabs are both Semitic...and they could hardly be called Apartheid, since you will find the Jews and Arabs working side by side in Jerusalem, to the sound of the Muslim Call to Prayer. Jimmy Carter made up that apartheid baloney, and I doubt that he ever set foot in Israel.

Well, you didn't read my post (how did I say Zionists were anti-Semtic?). And no, you don't find Arabs and Jews working side-by-side in Jerusalem. In fact, it's illegal for them to inter-marry. You can't be a citizen unless you're Jewish. Arabs are not even second-class citizens.

Not sure of your definition of apartheid, but it easily meets mine.

And you doubt Jimmy Carter ever set foot in Israel....your uneducated stupidity is laughable.....rather obvious you've never set foot over your county line.

@ Bob Bobarino

"And no, you don't find Arabs and Jews working side-by-side in Jerusalem."

You've never been in Jerusalem, have you?

"In fact, it's illegal for them to inter-marry."

Wrong. Interfaith marriages are not performed in Israel because there is no civil marriage. Religious authorities will not perform interfaith marriages. All civil marriages legally performed overseas are legal and recognized by the Israeli government. My wife and I were married in a civil ceremony in Brazil, where she comes from, and the Israel Ministry of Interior recognizes our status as married.

"You can't be a citizen unless you're Jewish."

Wrong again. Fully 1/5 of Israel's citizens are Muslim Arabs and approximately 1/4 are non-Jews. Wherever you get your information from, check again...

Zionism is nothing but Jewish nationalism-- the movement of the Jewish people to have their own homeland. It has nothing to do with Apartheid and everything to do with peoplehood and nationalism. Look up the definition of Apartheid and talk to South Africans, white and black, who lived through it before you make a fool out os yourself with silly accusations.

The moment you call Jews a "race" you pass into a grey area heading towards anti-Semitism. Jews are no more a race than New Yorkers, Londoners or Parisians are a race. On the contrary, you have Jews whose ancestry is black, asian and caucasian... and THOSE are the only races anthropologists recognize.

Before you laugh at someone else's "uneducated stupidity", look in the mirror and make sure your slip isn't showing.

Zionism has been expanded - almost exclusively by non-zionists - to be the equivalent of a right-wing megalomaniacal cult nowadays. I'm no fan of the (current) Israeli government, but some of the accusations they get are just idiotic.

As if you really have to make things up to criticize their PM (can't spell that man's name off-hand, sorry).

Bob Barino (Post 7.2)

When I saw your ignorant post, I was ready to refute it. The I saw that Grey Wolf, at Post 7.3 did a much better job than even I could.

the grey zionist- maybe you should check the definition of apartheid once more before you accuse others of being fools and making silly accusations. the state of israel has obviously used the idea of jewish nationalism to attempt to justify the implementation of systems of apartheid within israel and the occupied territories.

the irony of religion is that most begin with common ground in the belief in god or a superior creator being and inherent moralities however there is conflict once everyone starts telling the other person what god said. and this conflict takes place amongst members of a specific faith notwithstanding an interaction with an individual of a different belief that has it all "wrong." if religious followers can ease back towards the discussion of the concept of god and what that would mean for humanity while including members of the scientific community and away from the practice of quoting said god verbatim then as a species we may begin to gain some insight to these questions that have been pondered throughout the ages. after that we can get to work on racism, nationalism, classism and some of the other minutia we quibble and war over. while you all work on that im going back to my yard to continue digging out my bunker and stocking up on cricket soup.

I hate that hitler dude

Try jewsagainstzionism.org

Actually, that's quite common. Lots of Jews disagree with Zionist political policies.

Actually, that's quite common. Lots of Jews disagree with Zionist political policies.

Not in US, not one comes out and says isreal is wrong....

Why would they say that Israel is wrong, Abdallah? Because you said so? BTW, they're not wrong, just trying to survive and live normal lives.

Abdallah, I am an American Jew and am not a zionist. I believe, like those Orthodox people, that it's fine to reside in Israel as guests, but not to rule the Land by force.

When I visited Berlin, I was struck by the fact that Reform Judaism began there. It was also interesting that the Nazi regime identified some people as Jews who did not consider themselves to be Jewish.

Only G-d knows what will be in the future, but for now, my belief is that all inhabitants of the planet are ONE. That includes animals and plants. We all need to have respect for G-d's creation if we are to flourish. Media manipulators focus on what makes us different, but really we need to focus on what makes us the same.

Peace, Love & Joy.

I believe, like those Orthodox people, that it's fine to reside in Israel as guests, but not to rule the Land by force.

Then you must know the in US; Remember all the talk last September when Palestinians applied for full membership?Not one soul in TV, cable or local, newspaper came out and said; "Thats enough BS by isreal, lets tell them what to do (Be human), not ask them what they would like to do.. We cannot support apartheid in 21st century"

Name one prominent jew who criticized isreal..

david- amen.

Abdallah,

"Then you must know the in US;" - What does that sentence mean?

My opinion is my opinion. The state of Israel does exist and Palestine won't be a recognized country till it recognizes Israel and stops lobbing missles. The PLO remnants should learn from the ANC and Ghandi.

"Then you must know that how american jews see it completely different than what you are claimoing in the US" ,,,,

injustice cannot go on long; Its a matter of time those in isreal who insist on enslaving palestinians will pay a very hgh price.

Those who insist on enslaving palestinians are called Hamas, and the justice will indeed be done to them.

Wm. Sanders: good post..... I wasn't so kind with my words or thoughts....

And if there were no mainstream religions, we'd probably have fought a war or two over that.

In the end, God is just an excuse, after all.

SF, and if it isn't god people are fighting over, it would be ideology or politics

There's no such thing as solidarity that encompasses an entire country. Every country has hard-core nationalists, rightists, leftists, those that despise their country, and so on. The closest thing we have to solidarity is democratic consensus.

Solidarity does NOT mean that 100% of the ppl believe the same way. There will always be a "few" on the fringe - and these guys are a very small minority.

Some of us have known for years.

Why would it be?

Vandalism is pretty much the only crime unusually likely at a Holocaust monument, and the cost of a security apparatus is probably comparable to the cost of just cleaning it up.

Take a look at Zionism and realize the difference between the Jews (a race) and Zionism (a political movement). Also, realize that the hard-line Zionists are the ones controlling Israeli state policies right now - and there are lots or Jews opposed to Zionism (JAZ - Jews Against Zionism) as well as people like me that completely oppose both Zionism and Israeli state policies.

Your honesty is refreshing - and if people could delineate between these two very different groups (Not all Jews are Zionists and not all Zionists are Jews), they would have a better understanding of the situation in the Middle East.

Babarino, your ignorance is so abysmal it doesn't even warrant pity.

Jew are not now and never have been "a race", except in the eyes of people like Hitler. Jews can be asians, blacks or whites, the only three races accepted by anthropology.

There are no "hard-line Zionists" controlling Israeli politics today, there is only a multitude of self-interested parties, each with their own agenda, willing to commit any and all political blackmail within a coalition to further their own party's power.

Many Israelis, incuding myself, take issue with many of the government's actions, whether the government in question was Labor or Likud. Many of us, myself included, dislike the electoral system and want it changed sop that it a) reflects the will of the majority, and b) won't require a coalition of parties to form a government, thereby paralyzing any government as long as a smallm party with few representatives can dismantle a government by deserting it and leaving it with a minority in Knesset.

There were anti-Zionists as far back as the first Zionist Congress almost 120 years ago, for the same reasons as today. It's not quite as simple as saying "the Haredim believe that only the Meshiach will establish Israel". It's far more complex and convoluted.

Haredim have to blame someone for their own losses in the Holocaust... they find it impossible to accept that while they "kept the faith", God allowed them to suffer such destruction. Their solution is to blame the secular and/or assimilated Jews for their losses, and this creates a deep-seated resentment among them.

Lastly, not everyone who is opposed to Israeli government policies is an anti-Zionist. It's funny to me that you, who have no understanding of Israel and its politics, lecture others about it.

That's not exactly the "acme of Chutzpah", but it's close. (The definition of Chutzpah is a person who has murdered both parents, then threw himself at the mercy of the court on the grounds that he's an orphan.)

The so-called 'anti-Zionists' are just antisemetics in sheep's clothing. Are they also anti-Federalists? After all, the US government is 'occupying' America! No, of course not. Who would they call whenever they get into trouble, the Cherokees?

Like the birthers and Holocaust deniers, the anti-Zionists are just bitter. Sore losers. Rather than accept the world as it is, they believe their denial makes it not so. They're wrong. Obama is an American, the Holocaust really happened and Israel is a country. Get over it.

Where's Obama and all the rest of the bleeding heart liberals when ya need'em? If this was some gay-pride memorial it would have made the news on every TV station. I guess it doesn't benefit Obama to side with Israel considering he's muslim.

Double Fault Old Man.

Chosen people! That's all I can think of.

That's pretty much a non-sequitur, trudat. Why not say that about people with black skin, Asians, Native Americans and our ALL TIME FAVORITE, White Europeans.

Your prejudice appears to outweigh your knowledge, something generally true of people willing to hate rather than understand.

I'll bet you ARE religious.

Backlash against many of their practicies - including usury and racial bigotry. Just read the Talmud. If you're Jewish, it's OK to rape/steal/kill a Gentile - that's what they are there for. They're just vermin.

Needless to say, this hasn't sat well with many Gentiles over the centuries - and understandably so.

Nice nikon, so since the egyptian empire, the jews have been the center of "political issues" because the other guy is always the problem, that kind of sounds like an excuse a 10 year old would make, like bart simpson.

Why wont jews take any accountabilty for anything through-out history? Why is someone else ALWAYS the bad guy? Can they at least take credit for the horrible media we have now?

Why not say that about people with black skin, Asians, Native Americans and our ALL TIME FAVORITE, White Europeans.

BTW, the article is about jews, so ill stick to the topic at hand, you can attempt to deflect all you like.

Nice nikon, so since the egyptian empire, the jews have been the center of "political issues" because the other guy is always the problem,

How about the political strife between the Huns and the rest of the civilized world? The Mongolians and China? The Roman empire and the Germanic barbarian tribes? The Ottomans and their neighbors? The Greeks and the Persians? The Zulus and their neighbors? The Mayans, Aztecs and Incans? The Cherokee? The Germans and French? The French and the English? The Americans and the natives? The Americans and the British? How about communism?

That is just scratching the surface. If you look at human conflict, Jews are at the center of a proportion at amount and no more. Your limited knowledge of history, or your personal bias are the only things that form your skewed opinion on the matter.

Well, up until they got their own state, Israel, all the other religions had big influence in governments, complete with access to armies and national treasuries. In the old days it was common practice to run around slaughtering people who didn't ascribe to your exact religious views (which is totally different from today, in that you have to be careful not to piss off certain heathens who have many, many ballistic missiles). As far as I know, the Jews have never been a powerful political influence, in part because they don't actively try to convert others to their faith. So they have no country, no army, and all the other religions have their nations and armies.

That's my hypothesis, anyway. I'm in no way touting this as historical fact. But it does look rather convincing when I look at how the Israelis act once they finally DO get their own country and powerful military.

@trudat6445

It's because almost most Jews refused to be assimilated into the common nationality of their homeland. Which is why a lot of Germans disliked the Jews in both world wars because of German nationality and their refusal to simply become 'German' same said for any countries. Jews tend to think of themselves as Jews and not their nationality, it's their faith and culture first and then their nation second.

American Jews such as myself are really relax in the terms of assimilation, I am an American, but I also am a Jew, so sometimes I focus on the needs of my Jewish community before that of the American. A lot of countries hated the Jewish people because of the Biblical belief that the Jews killed Jesus, also it was un-Christian to handle the money and because back then if you take the people's money they tend to get violent.

Jews were also used as scapegoat as during the Black Death the only areas that wasn't affected was the Jewish communities (they wash their bodies and thus was more cleaner and didn't have fleas and rats everywhere), so they blamed the Jews.

OMG, that is terrible. I know it's expenive to put "cameras" to catch any vandalism done, but some are very necessary. Too many idiots have way too much time on their hands.

If they could find out who did this, make them clean iot up!!

How about the political strife between the Huns and the rest of the civilized world? The Mongolians and China? The Roman empire and the Germanic barbarian tribes? The Ottomans and their neighbors? The Greeks and the Persians? The Zulus and their neighbors? The Mayans, Aztecs and Incans? The Cherokee? The Germans and French? The French and the English? The Americans and the natives? The Americans and the British? How about communism?

How many of those are ancient history and how many are still going on?

Good list, i could list every conflict throughout history too, that doesnt change the fact that the jews have been central in many of the conflicts throughout, how many other "races" can say that?

As far as I know, the Jews have never been a powerful political influence, in part because they don't actively try to convert others to their faith. So they have no country, no army, and all the other religions have their nations and armies.

What does having a country have to do with anything? They have had HUGE political influence for centuries, they are not the nation of the US and yet they have the most political and non-political influence here.

Why do you thinkit was so easy for Hitler to create such hatred for jews? It was because they controled the country and the money and everyone else was living in poverty after WWI.

Sorry, trudat, your screed is still tainted with a focus on "the bad Jew". Media? MEDIA? Yeah, sure, let's talk about media owners. How about Rupert Murdoch (FOX media) - Christian. Ted Turner (former media mogul) - anti-religion at the time. William Randolph Hearst - not Jewish. Frank Ernest Gannett (largest newspaper empire) - not Jewish. Henry Luce(magazine empire) - son of Presbyterian minister. Oprah Winfrey - nominally Christian.

Now it's time for your list focusing on Jews, because that's what you do - you focus on the group you need to demean to make yourself feel better. That is the way of demagogy. You have to stand on the backs of others to appear to rise higher yourself.

As for you taking issue for the bad media we now have, please begin by send your complaints to Rupert Murdoch, criminal media mogul.

And yes, the article was about defacing a solemn memorial to those lost in the Holocaust. It was about ultra-orthodox "believers" who feel that their way of thinking trumps all other opinion. It was about a ridiculous conspiracy by some Jews to have their brothers and sisters killed to form the state of Israel. Ultimately, the article is about narrow and blameful thinking that marginalizes people which is built upon fictional stereotypes and scapegoating.

Mouzie, thank you for giving an actual answer. Though, no offense, i completely disagree with...

I am an American, but I also am a Jew, so sometimes I focus on the needs of my Jewish community before that of the American.

I firmly believe that is what is destroying the US, not you or the jews doing it, but everyone doing it. This pride in heritage has to stop for the country to be somewhat united, either be an american or dont, but dont put past cultures first. It is extremely divisive, it is why we have voting blocks which do nothing but divide interests, even though all interests should be the same. I dont understand why people feel the need to goup as a community when all it does is shows a lack of desire to "tolerate" those that arent a part of your heritage.

Nice job nikon you named a handful of non-jews who are part of the media, you failed to mention the largest brainwashing media there is, hollywood (along with the 5000 others) But blaming fox always works for liberals like yourself, keep up the good work.

I am very sorry, trudat, that YOU brought up the issue of media (presumably controlled by Jews) and I, unwittingly pointed to a CHRISTIAN fellow who controls one of the largest media empires in the world. Did you bait me to mention FOX so you could call me a FOX-bashing liberal? You sly dog.

I also must apologize for Hollywood for harboring all those talented people who entertain us daily.

We're done here. You keep hammering away at those bad Jews with a god-sanctioned conviction. Make sure you point out the insanity of the Haredi and all extremes of Christianity, Islam and any other cult-religion you can look up, but alas, I think you will always return to the Jew, the one you seem to love to hate.

"What does having a country have to do with anything? They have had HUGE political influence for centuries, they are not the nation of the US and yet they have the most political and non-political influence here."

That's arguable, but it makes no difference to my point. America's history is just a short blip so far in the timeline of the Jewish faith, and for the rest of it the Jews DIDN'T have a massive military and industrial juggernaut to back them up. Back in the day Popes excommunicated kings if those kings didn't do what they say; even Moses supposedly couldn't get the Pharoah to listen to him until AFTER he brought devastation against Egypt. So you have all these big religions with countries and armies that will do whatever the religious elite say, and then you have a tiny, distinct religious group who doesn't bother anybody with their practices and as a result has no political/military power.

Like I admitted before, it's just a hypothesis of mine, but that's how I see it.

Truedate, so you are only referring to conflicts "still" going on? Why bring up the contentions between the Egyptian empire and the Jews if you then discount all the conflicts I mentioned in the intervening time?

Currently, the Jews are in one sociopolitical struggle over the land of Israel. This consumes much of the US attention because they are a strategic partner and due to some kind of crazy religious tie, but it is far from the only major conflict. Somalia is a center of civil war, much of the middle east is in turmoil. North and South Korea are a constant source of tension. Again, while the conflict between Israel and it's neighbors is more visible, and it tends to impact our politics (wrongfully in my opinion) it is not particularly special as far as ongoing conflicts go.

You don't refer to yourself as "God's chosen" and expect much support from others. Other than that, the Jewish people are very competent with financial issues. Probably generates envy and jealousy from others.

Enq, your reading skills are very limited, but saying SINCE the egyptian empire the same group (jews) have had issues in multiple areas of the world is NOT equal to stating a bunch of "short" lived conflicts or border conflicts.

Is that too difficult to understand?

truedat, you have a very black-and-white world view. You state that Jews have a longstanding conflict as a group. Well, since that same time period, Egyptians have had problems with the Jews, Greeks, Romans, Libyans, Nubians, Assyrians, Persians, Byzantines, Islamic Caliphate, Ottomans, British, and again with the Jews.

Christians have been fighting with everyone forever it seems. Pick any one group, and if it has existed any length of time it has a history of strife and conflict. Hell, even the US has been in armed conflict over 107 years of our 238 years existing. That doesn't even include many of the campaigns against the natives and the cold war.

Singling out Jews as a common denominator is silly.

So let's say you're right (because I don't know, so I'm taking your word on it). What does that mean, exactly? Israel tried to sink one ship, for what purpose? To get us to fight Egypt?

It's a terrible thing to do, to be sure, but it would be foolish to turn on Israel over the incident. They weren't doing it because they want to kill Americans. You can't completely change diplomatic emphasis and forsake a country that's counting on you because they tried to manipulate you (that's more or less what Pakistan did to us, and look at that mess; we're both worse off and hate each other more than ever).

please do some research on it as you'll never ever hear about it from the zionist-controlled media. The anniversary just happened. Please people WAKE UP!!!

Why? I already took your word for it. The anniversary is still meaningless to me.

Though I probably shouldn't have taken your word for it, considering you just threw the term "zionist-controlled media" at me. Just so you know, that's an ENORMOUS red flag that you're crazy and shouldn't be taken seriously.