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AFP - Getty Images
Members of Libya's security forces look at a British convoy car that was attacked by a rocket-propelled grenade in Benghazi on Monday.
Libyans who overthrew dictator Moammar Gadhafi could now be turning on the West, according to a counter-extremism think tank that says militant Islamists are exploiting the country’s fragile security situation.
A recent string of attacks on Western targets – including one on United States diplomatic offices in Benghazi – has been carried out by an armed group whose “language and choice of targets reflect a Jihadist influence," according to the London-based Quilliam Foundation.
The warning echoes concerns by observers and some U.S. intelligence sources that the collapse of the Gadhafi regime could be exploited by groups seeking to turn Libya into an Islamic state.
Fourteen armed militias were killed ear Tripoli on Wednesday in the third straight day of fighting, underscoring the country's volatility ten months after Gadhafi's overthrow.
The country is preparing for a July 7 election to choose a national assembly that will write a new national constitution. Bouts of deadly violence, mostly in the southern Sahara and in the mountainous west, have highlighted old feuds between rival factions that pre-date the Gadhafi era.
“The recent events in Libya underline the fragile security situation in the country and the difficulties faced by the Libyan authorities in creating a stable environment, thus generating a security vacuum ready to be exploited by various militant groups,” Noman Benotman, a former Libyan jihadist who now works for the Quilliam Foundation, told msnbc.com.
Benotman said a group named the Sheikh Omar Abdul Rahman Brigade has claimed responsibility for attacks in Benghazi in recent days -- two against the neutral International Red Cross (ICRC) headquarters and one each against the U.S. offices in the city and the British Ambassador’s motor convoy.
The brigade is named after “The Blind Sheikh” Omar Abdul Rahman who is currently serving a life sentence in the U.S. for his connections to the 1993 World Trade Center bombings.
Don Emmert / AFP, file
Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman, shown here in a picture from 1993, gives his name to the Sheikh Omar Abdul Rahman Brigade, which has claimed responsibility for recent attacks in Libya. The so-called Blind Sheikh is currently serving a life sentence in the U.S. for his connections to the 1993 World Trade Center bombings.
Benotman said the first attack on the ICRC mission, on May 22, was carried out after the group accused the organization of distributing Bibles and facilitating missionary lectures aiming to convert Libyan Muslims to Christianity.
The Sheikh Omar Abdul Rahman Brigade, and similar groups, “take advantage of the accessibility to weapons, explosives and combat facilities available in the country since the Libyan revolution,” he said. “Inspired by a Jihadist ideology, the group can also increase its impact and attract dozens of Libyans who were previously involved in fighting to overthrow the Gadhafi regime.”
He said Libyan authorities “still face a serious gap in their attempt to control the security situation between the bureaucratic and the operational levels.”
In September, U.S. intelligence officials told the Washington Times that Jihadists among the Libyan rebels planned on the Internet to subvert the post-Gadhafi government and create an Islamist state.
The sources said spy agencies were stepping up surveillance of Islamist-oriented elements among Libyan rebels, and that a U.S. government report circulated Tuesday detailed how extremists were observed “strategizing” on Internet forums about how to set up an Islamist state in Libya.
Could Libya be the next Mediterranean tourism hotspot?
More than 600 former al-Qaida–linked militants, rounded up by the Gadhafi regime during the post-U.S. invasion Iraq insurgency, were freed from Tripoli's Abu Salim prison during last year’s political revolution.
However, Benotman’s warnings were played down by Richard Dalton, the former British Ambassador to Libya and Associate Fellow of the Middle East and North Africa Programme at British think tank, Chatham House.
He told msnbc.com: “Libya is not a fertile area for Jihadism, and not a natural recruiting ground for Islamist extremism. Apart from some eastern and southern areas, there is little evidence that Jihadists are posing a substantial threat to the country’s security any more than they would in any other country in the region."
“There is not a political vacuum in Libya. The overall picture is one that is heading more towards progress than setbacks and the ability to overcome incidences of violence.”
The former Libyan intelligence officer Abdel Baset al-Megrahi, who was convicted of taking part in the 1988 Lockerbie bombing but was released after eight years for health reasons, has died in Libya of prostate cancer. NBC's Jim Maceda reports from London.
Dr Omar Ashour, director of the Middle East Graduate Studies Program at the Institute of Arab and Islamic Studies, University of Exeter, and a visiting fellow in the Brookings Doha Center, has reported that former Jihadists in Libya, such as Abd al-Hakim Belhaj, the commander of Tripoli's Military Council, have been forced to “mature politically, recalculate strategically, moderate behaviorally [and] modify their ideological beliefs”.
“The National Transitional Council, with the support of NATO has a good chance of avoiding an Iraq-like or an Algeria-like scenario in Libya,” he wrote in an article for Foreign Policy.
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Follow us on Twitter: @msnbc_world
Leave a Comment:
Let me save the boys down at intel. some time and money. EVERYBODY hates us even the "friends" we buy. You are welcome.
The LYBIANS overthrew their dictator? What a laugh. If it weren't for NATO (Read: the U.S.) these gomers would have all been sweet swine pork rind mincemeat by now.
Just goes to show you that no good deed goes unpunished. We should have just let them kill each other.
This is old news. Check out these Libyans desecrating WWII soldiers graves:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQWskXeeuf0
O'Bama, a freakin loser voted in by a bunch of losers with a guilty concience. Another experiment gone wrong.
And this comes as some great surprise to our government now? Almost as good as finding no WMD in Iraq.
No surprise here. This is why Obama refused the Republican's demand that we act unilaterally. Obama knew who he was dealing with and read them well (both the Lybians and the Republicans.
First of all, Ed, it's Libyans. Second of all, this is exactly Obama's plan. Watch as his administration oversees all the N. African, Arab, and other Muslim countries going Islamist.
What's happening in Libya is exactly why we should not give ANY ASSISTANCE to the Syrian Rebels (activist). I believe the U.S. is giving arms to the Syrian Rebels and the CIA is very active in supporting the Rebels with both Military and Humanitarian aid. The U.S., Clinton and O'Bama, are dreaming if they don't believe the money given to the Rebels is used to buy Arms. I believe the people who start these revolts should live or die based on their own abilities. Gadhafi, without question, was a dictator; however, he kept the Islamics in check. The same applies to Egypt, the Islamics are taking control of the country and will attack the U.S. in the future. We do not want another War (hot or cold) with Russia. We give these countries the blood of our soldiers and money from our citizens and the thanks we get is being attacked by the same people we rescue using the arms we purchased for them.
No Muslim nation is truly America's friend.
What the F!...did someone just fall off the turnip wagon, what did they think was going to happen....Why does it seem that the man on the street can figure this stuff out but the lame brain politicians can't? sheeesh...
No thats not true. No Islamist nation that is run by extremeists care for us. It is because of the religion and our culture which is opposite of ours.
What is left out of the article- ICC (International Criminal Court) representatives went to Libya to see Saif al-Islam (Qaddafi's son held by the rebel faction) in prison and they were accused on spying,filming with phone,furnishing material endangering state security (ICC statements,blank forms signed by Saif)and are being held in prison- UN resolution for R2P stated that ICC would be in charge of prosecuting Q's g'ment. Libyan Transitional Council is impotent - there sectarian wars being waged in Tripoli,Miserati,Benghazi, various rebel fractions in turf war- Turkey making oil deals with Libya. Pre-anarchy stage- this is the way Obama adm./requirement to protect civilians/ his atrocities board- yes - a board of members in WH thinking very hard what to do- these sectarians killings and detaining unaccounted SubSaharans/former Libya 'g'ment workers/Ukrainians who were oilworkers et al without any process to courts/Red Cross/Aid agencies is the inertia/lethargy of US/Obama miscues in the today's decable/calamity/perversity. Chaos reigns.
I am shocked, completely shocked, that our long-time, loyal, islamist friends, the Libyans would turn on us. Can our intelligence agencies confirm this? Clearly this is some sort of political propaganda.
Sorry about that. Someone had left the sarcasm switch on all night.
Jack-467967
O'Bama, a freakin loser voted in by a bunch of losers with a guilty concience. Another experiment gone wrong.========
What an intelligent post. Seems like you are a second experiment gone wrong. How ironic to think your parents actually had fun that night.
This is what happens when your government is run by corporate lobbyists.
These ME and African dictators wanted more cash for their oil. American oil companies wanted the oil for cheaper prices. They lobby our government, all the way back to Clinton, to steer American foreign policy in a direction they wish. Unfortunately they are just as ignorant as the idiots in the White House.
It doesnt take the "man on the street" to realize that Muslims cannot live in peace unless there is a dictator ready and willing to kill them if they act up.
American Muslims dont count. They would probably be the first under the knife if an Islamic War occurred on our soil. IMO there is nothing more pathetic then an African American Muslim. Especially considering that many African Americans became slaves when Arab Muslims bought them from Zulu and other strong African tribes. It is laughable to me that a person would choose the religion of their captors for no other reason then to snub Christianity.
What a wonderful planet we could have if we removed religion. Organized religion is the most destructive force on this planet, right above nuclear weapons and Lady Gaga.
I have said this once and I will say it again. We already know how to deal with zealots. I give you WWII. Japan. The Japanese were just as brainwashed as these Muslims. Willing to die to the last child.
Two smoking craters where cities used to be and all of that religious, mystical, ignorant BS is out the door.
You turn Teheran and Mogadishu into glass parking lots and the Muslims will realize that adhering to an outdated religion is no way to live.
Oh and Muslim women everywhere will finally get to take off the black burlap sack in 100 degree temps.
Well I must say that is not true. It may seem true but, there are many people in other countries that are smart enough to know the difference between the people and the government. They may not agree with our actions but, to say they " all" hate us is an untrue statement. Now I think we have had some very questionable stances towards many issues in the last 2 decades but, we can turn this around in the eyes of the international community. I know many Iraqi's that are very happy that we did what we did there. I also have seen the outcry against us. The question is do we sit back and allow for the sake of our reputation extremist rogue governments that really do hate us remain in power or should we assist the people in oppressive countries free them selves of that. I am not sure if it is in our best interest to continue to try and help these situations. We ultimately are going to look bad no matter what we do, even if it is the right thing in our minds. I truly believe that situation evolving with Iran is going go very bad for us if we do not get it back on track. this is the scariest thing a foot right now. It troubles me that we are willing to become at odds and basically back in hostile relations with Russia and Chine to protect a small young country like Israel. I agree that they should not feel threat all the time but, i also know that choosing to live in that area of the world make that a part of the package.
Gee....what a huge surprise. I'm so shocked.
And this is exactly why we had better not spend one penny on Syria. It's absolutely none of our business and we need to let these savages deal with their own bull@!$%#.....
America Today-Anthony
#1.15 - Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:21 AM CDT
This may come as a major surprise to you but, if you ask most of those women about their traditional religious garb they are very happy to be wearing it. Now nuns wear something very similar because of their religious devotion .....so do you feel they are oppressed as well. It is not oppression when it is a choice. I think this mentality is where we as Americans are going about this the wrong way. This article demonstrates that yes they do not want to be abused and killed by a mad leader but, they also do not want to be forced to stop following their religion of choice neither. If we are there to free them from oppression statements like your proves that maybe there is ill intent and we are aiming at changing them as a people entirely. They do not want that. I would also like to point out that no one in Tehran orchestrated the attacks on 9-11 nor in Mogadishu...so why exactly do we level them? The majority of the terrorist were from Saudi Arabia where they teach extreme hatred and death to Americans maybe that is where we should bomb in your reasoning?
What?!? Never, no way. Man this is just total and complete surprise. Boy gee whiz I never would've thought that could happen.
Really though, who didn't see this coming? It was only a matter of time. I'm all for helping the down trodden and supporting the rise of democracy but we have to stop being so mentally challenged when it comes to these issues and stop putting other interests first. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice; how many times do we have to be fooled? I still don't understand what benefit the US really had here in this. Yeah Daffy was a bad guy but like all these nations in the middle east or that have large Muslim influence its a double edged sword. I'd love for these people to have democracy and stop their stone age thinking but until the Muslims themselves undergo a real Renaissance, like the rest of the world did several hundred years ago there won't be any change. And try as we might it becomes ever more apparent no matter how much we do and how many dollars we throw at it, it doesn't change.
It is time to strongly reconsider our stance with these countries and our other so called friends. I'm tired of it and I'm tired of the constant backstabbing. And yes without NATO these guys would all be sitting in a shallow mass grave somewhere so they would be wise to remember that. Whatever happens in Syria happens. Until they become a direct threat to us I'm afraid we need to just let them be. If times were different and we didn't have a plate that was already over following then maybe but right now, no.
So to the think tank boys, the rest of us average Americans got this covered and called it long ago, find something else to focus your brain power on.
If that is the case, why some are jumping and dancing on Syria and Iran?
Iraqi wars and oil price manipulations by ungrateful Saudis and co and oil companies, must at least teach some lessons.
Saudis became rich and have been funding their Sunni Islamic extremist versions of Salaffi, Wahhabi, al-Qaida, MB and other label ones all over the world.
William,
I am glad you are the voice for the millions of women subjected to Islamic law.
I suppose they enjoy the honor killings when they attempt to throw off the yoke of an archaic religion.
Thanks for the insight.
Oh and I chose those two cities for a reason.
Who would have thought? I'm shocked!
I forgot, for my brilliant insight and my generous nature I will only charge you good people 14 million dollars for my consulting fee. Ummm, anybody know a good bank in the Bahamas?
This is the same nation who danced and cheered in the streets when a mass-murder of westerers(Lockerby bomber) was returned home to them... and you want to pretend they are just now turning against us???
What a shock. Muslims attaching the West in their own territory. The great apeaser, Peace Price Nobel Barack Hussein Obama Jr. , is taking us in the wrong direction, leading from behind and suporting radical religious groups to takedown their governments, like Islamic Brotherhood in Egypt and in Syria, they are kicking our butts. Get the hell out of there, stop waisting money in those nations for the evil oil, we have here more than enough , oil and gas to be indepondent from the Meddle East , but it won't happend with BHO, because he is against the oil producers. Do we need 4 more years of extreme regulations based on politic not in facts? NO
Don't forget WalMart!
Sounds like the US wants to go to war again!
If Libyans want to turn "THEIR" country into a whatever....let them! Its none of our business! I am nither muslim or christian....i am agnostic/atheist...and as i sit back and watch the media play your hatred like a freaking fiddle....you jump all over it! This is we got to Iraq....this is how they have effectively made a permanent war..."THE WAR ON TERROR"...the never ending war! The war that we keep finding that our government lied to us, but yet we still deny that they lied to us...even while we admit it!
Libya is not a westernized country, but that is not our problem. Their government, or lack their of, is not our problem! Let them figure out their own civil war....we had one! And so what it they "want to turn it into an Islamist nation"....people get so hung up on this. This simply means that it is a nation based on Islam. However many have been brainwashed to think that means "terrorist nation". I mean do we go around saying this is a Christian nation....so its a terrorist nation? Oh no! They ARE are nation of Islam....so it will be an Islamist nation.....dont read into it!
If you really get into it, Israel attacked the USS Liberty in 1967 trying to make us think Egypt did, so we could fight their war! Again in the Lavon Affair....bombing US and British Embassies, trying to make us think Egypt did it! Muslims arent the only terrorist! Christians and Jews /Israelis are too!!! We just dont hear about them, because it is not what our government wants us to hear! I mean if we were to know about the truth, we wouldnt feel this way, and would not support the false wars! And then Haliburton / KBR and the rest would not make their billions!
I have studied religions and they are ALL very similar....preaching peace.....but hating the other! In fact, in reading, Islam is very peaceful, followed by Christianity.....yet they are at eachothers throats.
The 3 biggest problems that will most likely end humanity.
1 Religion
2 Politics
3 Real estate....(countries...borders....historical borders...etc)
This is the reason none of our soldiers died in that country this time. It was going to happen if we went all in or if we don't touch a foot on land. Great leadership can see what is happening and learns from past mistakes. Halliburton will have to wait for another time to make another billion dollars.
Folks, get real! Do not blame all the Libyan rebels for what a handful of terrorists have done.
Really now. Did anyone rationally think this outcome would be anything else? The Libyan fiasco was simply a power struggle between factions and the west (NATO and Obama) elected to choose sides. Why? Because one faction had the presence of mind to employ the word "democracy" which served to enthrall the west and entice them into providing substantial military assistance.
Libya has begun it's descent into a western hating Islamic theocracy and there's virtually nothing Obama or anyone else can do about it. Once again, Obama and his NATO buddies were played for fools.
allthumbs: If one does not think before doing a thing, why should one be surprised or shocked.
Just see Bushes on Iraqi wars. They saw monies being flashed by Suadis, oil companies and lobbyists.
Why should they and their supporters worry about economic mess and how NATO forces had to flee?
The West will really cry when China get Libya's oil!!! I don't know who are rebuilding oil infrastructures, but I can bet that China has gotten its share because of its "hand-off" policy (China do not care about human rights or religions).
Funny you should say that because It seem's like we are currently protecting more of China's oil and mineral right's than our own. American's are dieing while China is secureing the right's of the soil they died on. It's as if they are pulling the purse string's of our military hummm I wonder just how much of America one could buy if one had trillions to spend?
Well, we borrowed trillions from China to conduct the Bush/Cheney Iraq War. This is the payback. Check online about China's huge mining operations in Afghanistan. Don't see the Chinese military taking IED hits on patrol.
Vote Romney, and you'll get the same borrow and spend to wage a war with Iran. Won't be pretty.
Some reason the Republicans always view our men and women in uniform as expendable. Remember Reagan's Beirut "expedition"? Good example.
JK from PA, China is broke, O'Bama borrowed all of what they had.
JK...
Congrats for posting the dumbest thing of the day!
Do us all a favor and try reading about the reason US troops were in Beirut in 1983 before you just spout off some nonesense and disrespect the 241 American and 58 French soldiers who were killed by Iranian proxies there.
If you can read...
Your right. That is why China is banking their bucks in the Romney superPAK hoping he wins in November, and moves what remains of our industrial infrastructure over the China.
JK, don't be so naive. You blame repubs when you should be blaming the corruption of the two party system we have. Neither party, as a whole, is worth a damn. And your "don't vote Romney" point is equally naive. There is no discernible difference between him and Obama.
JK-
You're a liberal or progressive, right? Shouldn't you support the move of industry to China? After all, the Chinese have a lower standard of living than most "greedy" Americans. More industry would help bring "fairness" and "equality" to that poor nation.
How's the "Arab spring" working out for you? We never learn a damn thing. We remove Saddam and we get civil war in Iraq, we remove Qaddafi we get Islamic kooks wallowing in hatred toward the west. How about this? we tell the middle east "your on your own". How about that? Every-time we get involved we get something worse than we remove. The Islamic culture does not lend itself to democratic values in the least. Great idea W, McCrystal, and now Obama, lets "build nations", you complete buffoons. How's that working for us these last 10 years? They are third world thinkers who keep half their population, females, as second class citizens and then wonder why they are a dysfunctional society. To hell with these people. They get to bold we blow them to kingdom come, no more boots on the ground, no more aid, no more nothing. You want help, get it from your Muslim neighbors.
Stuffer, don't try to back-walk Reagan's inept foreign policy in Beirut. He parked our troops there on a senseless peacekeeping mission. Let Hezbollah have their way with them, and turned tail and pulled out. THAT IS THE DISRESPECT OUR TROOPS GET FROM THE RIGHT !!
Your weak, dweebish, rebuttal lacks any detail to substantiate your erroneous position. I recommend further research into the subject, rather than blubbering anti-patriotic rhetoric, my child.
Atlas, you forget that it was FDR and the subsequent Dems that brought us out of the depression, built our industrial might, passed child labor laws, formed OSHA, and continue to support fair wages and benefits for our workers. Don't see much of this happening in China, or the other Pac Rim nations, anytime soon.
Give Romney a round, and he will do what he does best: carve up industry and sell off the pieces.
How bleak. Then stay away from the poles this November. Just throw in the towel. Must be a conservative.
jk
How many Americans have died in Afghanistan since Obama has been President? How many deaths has President Obama ordered from the Oval Office through drone attacks?
It's little punks like you that have helped the Democats blow a historic opportunity into a loser, one term President. You should be proud...
Why should we care where Lybyas oil goes we were not buyin from them.
stuffmaker you are a lousy troll. Afghanistan was still there because Bush was an idiot and so were the Neocons. Drone attacks have Killed over 20 high level terroists. The Iraq war has killed hundreds of thousands of civilians but I betcha think Bush babies war did something. Your alluding to how bad Obama is has no fett. Just right wing election year gibberish. Grow up.
LOL. He's such a little guy lacking wisdom.
JK,
You are the most naive person that I have heard in a long time, spewing so much misinformation and illogical nonsense that it is hard not to respond to.
Please take Atlas's message as he is 100% correct, there is very little difference between Romney and Obama besides the R & D behind their names. Wake up, both political parties are bought and paid for by corporate america.
JK is absolutely CORRECT. Knock him all you want, but he is dead on.
If Romney gets in there WILL be boots on the ground in Syria and Iran. You can bet your house on it.
Hear his message that the U.S. "must continue to be brave and strong in the fight against terror?" That's doublespeak for "if I get in you had better give me your wallet and your kid to pour down some third world rathole, but don't worry- it's in the best interests of "your" great Country."
Where will HIS kids be, you ask? No doubt in some pokey little dunk Bible School in the back hills of Utah. Greater love hath no man, right???? Do as I say not as I do.
breadex, not true. Once NATO started in on Libya, there were news reports from generally credible agencies about the oil deals Obama had already made with the rebels.
Hotticket: THX!
"patriot"mark: As I had stated, "stay away from the poles in November". If you are so disenfrancised with our political process, then simply stay out of it, and keep your defeatist idiology to yourself.
The Democratic party of FDR and the Democratic party of Obama are two distinctly different animals.
Granted you cant tell one party from the next when corporate lobbyists run the show.
Obama and Bush have parties on Saturday nights,. They drink cold beers and cheer to the ignorance of the American people. The most gullible people on this planet.
ViVa America!~
Wow! All I can say in reading this ignorant political stories followed by their oh so captivating and responsive followers is, wow. You have people commenting that Obama is a worthless nut and then Romney's a worthless nut. Well, guess what, they're politicians. These men have no brains or self will. Do you all really think that the president or any politician for that matter has any power? No politician has had their own mindset since Ben Franklin left politics. Since then, political salaries have risen and government lobbying(which is truly a politicians means of retirement) has become so excessive that only the top 1% actually run this country. Some moron above posted that more industry would help create equality in "that poor country"(China). Where do you people get your news? Our country suffers from greater inequality than many third world countries today. Turn on your tv and see that there is no hungry children of the US foundation, no help the poor man find a job and education fund. All you see is how we should be helping to create equality in these other countries thousands of miles away when right down the street there is a hungry, starving child whose crack head mother is passed out in puke on the floor. Why is it people so easily blame the parents for the mis-haps in our own country and never worry about the children. Oh, but if there is a hungry kid in a different country, it's not the parent's fault its their government, or it's Islam. Good lord people, open your eyes and see that this is no longer the country it once was. The US has not been the same since it started turning its back on its allies for greed(I give you the French American war, read what it was about once) and giving money back to the countries which try to destroy and oppress it. Before everyone starts worrying about all of these other countries and how terribly poor they live, look at many of the people in this country. My grandfather taught me a strong rule which I live by, "if you can't fix your own, don't try to fix someone else's". He served 2 years in Korea, loved his country and his countrymen, but was confused as to why war had become about turning back what already was. When did war suddenly become about ousting a dictator and giving the next moron power and not about gain for the strongest nation? Every great empire will fall one day, history proves it, but an empire can't stand when it has no legs or backbone to begin with!
I agree with JK and HOTTICKET.
If one had opposed Iraqi wars openly in those days, probably he/she would have been beaten up as a traitor.
The very patriots, who were gung ho in the beginning, wanted the troops to be withdrawn!
Story is same on Afghanistan.
Despite all these, many including Hillarys, Romneys, McCains want Syrian and Iranian interventions.
Romey can use McCain's experience in Vietnam on how the US airlifted soldiers from Saigon airport. That was the only outlet available.
He will need it in Afghanistan, Syria and Iran.
Of course, Bushes got tired with their Iraqi wars! Also Saudis and co and oil companies may not need their services.
JkfromPa, I also remember Kennedy's and Johnson's foray into Vietnam, Bush sucked but Obama continues the sucking. As far as Romney goes, he can't be any worse then Obama
How many have they created?
Between this, Iran, the economy and Europe's mess it's like Obama can't catch a break. Obama is always trying to be on "the right side of history" but it may well turn out that it is his administration that ends up being history sooner rather than later.
Watch as his administration oversees all the N. African, Arab, and other Muslim countries going Islamist.
There has been multiple administrations watching the Islamists take over the Middle east. Stop acting like it's a new concept and just accept it. Cruise missiles and bibles aren't going to change people's thinking.
First president raised Muslim in foreign countries doin' that, been there. First one.
Gee whiz, if we had only known. What a suprise for our State Department! What a surprise for Obama.
Look what we did to Libya. We turned a stable country into the mess it is now and the people don't like it or us.
bill
LOLOLOLOL...... a stable country.......LOLOLOLOL........
When was it a stable country? I want some of what you are taking.
Gee, an Arab country hates us. I wonder how much they are paying the geniuses in the think tank to come up with these nuggets of information that are clearly beyond the ability of the average person to understand or comprehend.
Do they really hate us any more than they have for the last 40 years? 140 years? 240 years? I doubt it.
Remember - "From the halls of Montezuma to the Shores of Tripoli". Maybe if we quit poking our nose into their business.
Since before the crusades they've hated christiannity, why should they change, nations come and nations go, the ragheads just pick up the scraps and keep herding their goats....The big wheel just keeps turning...
Very true.
Free education, even if studying abroad, free healthcare, a dowry and a free house when you get married, free electricity, and much more. Most Libyans were very happy with Gaddafi. We created the entire "rebel" scenario covertly, groomed it and made it grow just as we did in Iraq, and Vietnam, and very soon, Iran.
We are attempting the same thing in Syria as I type this, but Russia isn't having it this time.
We are being lied to, constantly.
This is the same nation who danced and cheered in the streets when a mass-murder of westerers(Lockerby bomber) was returned home to them... and you want to pretend they are just now turning against us???
Jonedep, you have only a glancing blow contact with history, don't you? The Marines' song about the shores of Tripoli have to do with the Muslims attacking ships on the high seas and enslaving OUR sailors. That's why the US attacked them--we did nothing before that. We were a brand-new nation fairly fresh from the Revolution! God, anything to blame America, right?
Muslims slaved from the time of Mohammed and continue to do so today--ask black Sudanese or Thai sex-slaves recruited as maids.
jim
If you're not a woman.
If you stay alive to get it.
If you weren't, they killed you.
they fought and won the freedom and now can do what ever they want. Make their own mistakes and find their own ways like america did a long time ago. good luck and learn from others mistakes.
China also doesn't do drone strikes that kill civilians. Drones are great recruiting tools. Just ask the people in Yemen.
I still have hopes for Libya. They seem to be holding it together.
China may not do drone strikes but they sure do enjoy their electronic warfare by sending bugs and viruses into our government computer system.
Libya is a p.o.s country that should be boarded up and closed off with the rest of the middle east. They M.E. should never come in contact or association with the modern, more civilized world.
Sane Central I do believe the best part of you rolled down your mothers leg. Honestly, 6 million sperm cells and you were the fastest swimmer?!?!
Yeah, and so many women and children are killed by the software daily, just like our drones.../sc
And, you are so wrong, you don't even have a clue. Libya was a thriving nation until we set sights on them.
Now, throw out more childish insults at those more educated and informed than you. I swear, reading ignorance like yours over and over again in our media is damn depressing.
We help them kill the guy in power, give them billions of our hard earned tax dollars, and the next jackas*s steps up and takes the money and rules the same way.
We have played out this scenario over and over since WW11 and it's time Congress and our leaders take a good hard look at what we have accomplished by all this foreign aid.
Nothing. We go from one nation begging for help to that same nation stabbing us in the back. They have it in their heads that the American tax payer is put on this earth to support them.
It is our liberal socialist leaders who have been in power since WW11, who have let this happen. All that money taken from the mouths of our children, elderly, sick, and given to people who in the end will kill us if they can.
The mind set of this country and it's place in this continuing policies of giving aid to every country has got to come to an end. We have NOT bought any allies and if our leaders can't see this yet, then they are truly ignorant and blind.
We need more people like Obama in charge like we need another hole in our money bucket, that is leaking so bad, it has gone from a trickle to an all out flood.
When are the people of this country going to come first?
World War Eleven?
Liberal leaders are the warmongers/nation builders? I am fine with you saying politicians but claiming one side evil and one side good shows how absolutely biased you are. Its not even a question of intelligence to see that all politicians are puppets for their rich masters, that's as plain as day. You are just obstinate, emotional and probably financially in need.
Steven100, I believe the "rational" Americans are sick and tired of hearing the whining about paying taxes, hating government, and blabbing anti-union rhetoric from the spineless and mindless rightwingers.
If you and your ilk don't like it, move on to Pakistan. There, you don't have to worry about paying your taxes, you can work for pennies a week without benefits, and join a jihadist movement and blow yourself up at a government checkpoint.
Spineless, backwards, uneducated, conservative cowards.
JK...I am a conservative...I have a masters degree in engineering....who are you calling uneducated???? I also served in the first Iraq war...who are you calling spineless coward???? Back away from the kool-aid and move out of your mother's basement...
Thanks for your service. Did you get your education via the GI bill? You can thank the Dems/liberals/progressives for that.
PS my extensive RE portfolio dictates that I set an example and live a very wealthy lifestyle; highly educated and motivated.
KJB, a distant neighbor of ours was a Gulf War I vet. He, too, is an engineer. Fat, lazy guy who rambles on about "kool-aid" this and that, and re-lives his "glory days". Supply clerk in the Army that chest-pounds his bravado like some action hero. Typical engineer, can't make a decision within a week. I doubt he could construct a simple lever and fulcrum with an erector set. Really feel sorry for the slob.
JK....you are not worth my time....but I did serve my country so blowhards like you can spout off here...you sure are quick with the name calling....guess you got that from your GED education...
kjb i have news for you, you did not serve your country, you served a bunch of rich people, they sent you there so they could make more money, but we as americans are too blind and too stupid to even realize it. if you have all the studies as you say you do, you should show your brains, and analize it a little better, stop trying to feel good for your self, and start thinking for your self, and i have a masters, and a md, am way more educated than you, and i can call you ignorant
JK, wouldn't it be easier to get a job?
Your knees have to get sore spending all that time on your knees begging for handouts.
And wouldn't be nice not to walk down the street knowing that every other person you meet is looking at you and thinking, "I wonder if that is one of those dem parasites?
JKfrom Pa, perhaps a class in class might help. You seem to be pretty impressed with yourself. Lets see ,you got your right to speak your mind from who ,oh yeah our Conservative dominated Military. What branch were you in?
hey JK, just a question, did YOU serve in the military? and since you hate conservatives, and/or ( right wingers) and spew fourth with the name calling as if anyone associated with these labels is so beneath you, does that not point out that you are making KJB's point but just too full of yourself to realize it? you have all the answers but no solutions.......when the sh%t hits the fan brave guys like you are the ones saying. i'm ready to fight with every last drop of your blood.......its a sacrifice but one i'm willing to make . WHY are you not running for president? YOU would fix everything! just like obummer has right? tell me how is your job? how is the economy where you live? does your economic future look better under obummer? cause if it does i wanna move there. have a good one
no hope and the wrong change........we got screwed again.....but yes lets give obummer 4 more years to make it worse......oh yeah. thats what we need.
Kilroy: 16 yrs. Don't lecture me about giving to my country. So glad I got so many armchair/pushbutton warriors pissed; feels good to get that anger going, eh?
wlee: we don't fight for "liberty" anymore. It's all corporate interests. Wake up and stop pounding your chest. You're / you were just a tool for some CEO somewhere in Uber-wealthyville, USA
JKfromPa, sounds like you were for 16 years.BTW I'm a tool for no one don't pretend to assume
its a question JK who is lecturing you ? and what did you do in the military? and answer the other questions, or will you ? and i never said anything about you giving anything to your country..corporate interests, ? maybe, me self employed contractor for 17 years, no fool for any CEO and how would you know? ask you some simple questions about life inside the bubble where you live and you clam up? you know i have been on this planet for 49 years and when i hear a man call another man a coward it's usually the other way around as it takes one to know one....easy to do on a computer. safe too.... who's angry? i just asked some questions and you want answer them. why?
@!$%# like this always happens. We give them aid in their crisis and after the dust settles they hate us. This is a prime example on how two faced they are.Cockroaches.
Actually they hated us before Obama gave them aid.
One minute they are your friend and want our help and our money for aid and the next they are burning our flag and have turned into a some kind of radical jihadist. Why would any government trust or help any of these muslim countries? They hide murdering terrorists? They train radicals. They teach their children to hate the west. Someday there will be a reckoning.
I love the picture of Santa Achmed, very cool. I did not know they were that big on Christmas.
HO HO BOOM!
Explosive Christmas everyone! Explooooosive Christmaaaaas!
I can't imagine this after all the women and children we killed while bombing their country for France and Britain. Just another blunder by a failed foreign policy.
Yeah, we should start a war under false pretenses, and park our troops there for a decade for a couple of trillion bucks, the latter borrowed from China.
Thank you Bush/Cheney. Mission (never) Accomplished. Repub foreign policy.
Jk
After reading your posts I can see you must be real proud of your 6th grade education and you should be...it shows.
Nevermind the very impressive list of Democrats, including Bill and Hillary, that supported the Iraq war. That would be a "ugly truth" right?
Colin Powell also supported the Iraq war. He even went to the United Nations and gave his best "Adlai Stevenson" speech as to why we should invade.
That was until he found out that the Administration had doctored intel and lied to him.
Stuffy, your following me around like a yappy dog on a leash. What's up with that?
They pleaded and pleaded for continued NATO airstrikes. Interestingly the U.S. stayed back and maintained a support role. I say next time we just tell them to go to hell.
Even more interesting is that McCain and his Repub allies where lambasting the Prez to push for boots on the ground, as now with Syria. Sad how the lackies on the right are now on this blog blasting Obama's foreign policy.
It was a well known fact that the Libyan insurgency was dominated by hard core Islamists including Al Qaeda. They did not start to turn against the West today, they have never been allied with the West, they used the useful idiots in Europe and USA to topple a regime led by a mad man, Gadhafi, and replaced it with a regime led by lunatic Islamists.
This, and many other tragedies in Tunisia, Egypt and probably, soon, Syria are, to some extent, the outcome of Obama's outreach to the Muslim world.
Yep, Barry and Hillary screwed up on this one, next stop Syria.
Pretty sure it's John McCain and Lindsey Graham that are the lead "drum beaters" on Syria. Both are Republicans.
I just heard John McCain talking about Syria, and I totally disagree with him. I have not heard Lindsey Graham on that subject, but if he is taking the same position, both are wrong. I believe that American politicians should study all the facts before coming up with such crazy ideas. Unfortunately many American Politicians do not understand most of what is going on outside their own State, and in this case they should not mess around with international affairs.
The bottom line if you are not a car mechanic do not volunteer to fix your neighbor's car.
For some reason people seem to think that John McCain's time as a POW,makes him a military genius.Anyone can get capured.
John, I actually feel sorry for you. I'm sure you would have survived being a POW and your lack of respect for someone who has is discusting.
John, I agree, although one must respect a POW's resolve. But, true, it doesn't make one an automatic military strategist, or even a hero. As I have gathered, John McCain was outside of his intended and instructed area of ops. Kinda' got himself in a pickle and bailed. Very bad luck. That said, he didn't aim his failing aircraft at a factory or military installation and "ride it in". So, genius or hero? No. Tough customer? Yep. Are you disrespecting all POWs with your post? Certainly not. Don't pay any mind to other posters who claim otherwise. Some here are just a bid thin-skinned, and hurt rather easily. Peace!
THIS IS BULL@!$%#! Everytime we do something nice, those @!$%#s make us look like demons! Ungrateful pricks! I'm sick of the world.
Don't do it. Life is still woth living.
every one new Obama was going to help the Brother Thugs. Obama is not for America ! his change is for a muslim world ! smarten up people !
The Iraq War, and Bush/Cheney's inability to quickly seal the deal in Afghanistan, destablized the Middle East.
sam, and you know this how? Yep, sure wish you would smarten up. Think etchy sketchy is going to be any different? New flash for you sam, he won't be any different, they both work for the corporations.
JK I think you need to go back and read your history. McArthur asked to be allowed to go take care of the ME while he was there because it was so unstable and was pulled back home instead. That region has never really been "stable". I'm not a fan of Bush and I think the Iraq war was a huge mistake, but you can't blame if for problems that already existed!
JKfromPA Bush destabilized the ME HA HA HA me thinks you aren't as intelligent as you think you are
wlee: another motor-T private making bravado with his military "service". Sand in your boots doesn't make you a hero. Sorry to bust your glory days BS.
Monkey, please enlighten us on your post. In what timeframe of history did General MacArthur serve in the Middle East? Really, I'd like to know, as I suspect you are getting your history lessons from one of those "anti-liberal textbook" publishers attempting to reconstruct history to their own twisted version.
As a primer for your research perseverance, Many/most ME countries prior, during, and post-WWII were colonies of European nations. But, still don't see any reference to MacArthur helping to de-stabilize the Middle East (?).
Sorry jack but I served in the Navy from 72-76 and don't claim to be a hero, your words not mine, maybe you can borrow one of those Steeler crying towels
"Libyans could be turning against the West, think tank says"
There's never been a time when Libyans were not against the West.
Helping the Libyians out was a good one....now the ones in charge are bombing the Red Cross Office and other "Western" building. Good call NATO!! You put terrorists in charge of Libya. Maybe Gadaffi was involved in terrorism...but the past 20 yrs he kept his nose clean. These new guy couldnt wait to start bombing Western targets
Good move on the libyians part. Shows the world just what they really are, a bunch of f ing nuts. So much for that BS they spout about their religion is one of peace. Tell your ayotahs they not only have sex with goats, they also stink like goat manure.
we overthrew a secular leader using extremists. we shouldve learned from afghanistan experience. but still it wont backfire, to protect our country and economy we need to invade libya and make it our own colony so we can get out of this terrible economy. who is with me?
When we have an administration that wages war against many countries and sells out those who were our allies, what more is to be expected. We have truly become the Ugly Americans to most all of the world. My fear is that their retribution will be hell.
So true Bill. There's even a show about us on CN.
What did I miss? I thought Obama, and his followers, were showing us a "kinder, gentler, smarter" way to kill and overthrow a Middle Eastern Government and the Libyians would love us for it. What happened?
Did Obama lie to us again? Dang...
did he lie? I don't see anything in your post that proves he did.
Certainly it was a smarter way to remove a dictator than bush with iraq, so that was true.
did he claim the libyans would LOVE us for it? And anyone who knows anything about these countries knows there are a wide range of fractions and thoughts...many people in libya might well love us, but of course there will be others who hate us.
so yes, you missed something...facts and common sense.
Yes he lied, then committed an illegal and unprovoked act of war agaisnt another country that was no danger to the USA
He should be undergoing the impeachment process, right now.
And Archie, by your criteria of impeachment, Bush and Cheney should be tried for treason. Cherry-picking and twisting intelligence information to convince Congress to wage a war on a sovereign nation is straight-up treason. Not to mention outing our own CIA agents for political posturing, etc. etc......
I remember the "Impeach Clinton" bumper stickers showing up weeks after HIS inauguration. Same ole whining, different decade. Face it, the far-rightwinger, i.e. teabaggers and associates, can only start problems and divide this nation. No rational policy for fixing anything, or moving this country forward. Thus, the soft, "puffy", ignorant folks that sponge up the "Hail to the 'Job Creator' " rhetoric pushed by the mega-millionaires on Fox and Lintball's show.
Never in a milllion years could anyone saw that coming...
/sarcasm off
the muslim brotherhood is taking over the mideast and we are paying the bill,and supporting these people, the koran tells them to kill us. yet we help them .
Oh Joy! Another would be rogue state trying to scare the USA out of money. They make a bunch of noise and we buy their loyalty for billions. Simple. I say let them suffer from their own devices and see how the muslim brotherhood treats them. Protect our borders and spy, spy and spy some more to keep an eye on things. This Arab "bait & switch" (also played by the N. Koreans) is getting old. They take our money for military support and oil then beg the rest out of us because they can. Pay no attention to these people and hope they go away.
I'm floored. After all we did for them, who would have thought they'd turn on us?
Oh, wait, it's happened everywhere we've butted in.
Maybe we should rethink this business of helping. It'd save money. And I see the press is trying to get us into Syria now . . .
And regardless of comments by the idiots Stuffmaker and Bill above, it wouldn't matter who's in charge--his brand of big business runs things.
How come the common person on the streets of the US expected this to happen and yet the so called elite are surprised? Well NATO helping the radical Islam nation at our expense. Drill Baby Drill and Ship baby ship that oil before the MB shuts it down.
I don't think anyone (including "the elite", whoever that is supposed to be) is surprised that "this" happened..not that very much has happened yet. Its a few months into the process, no doubt things will go up and down, often on a moment's notice.
of course it will go up and down every one knew that except the inept lying quasi socialist in the white house, evidently.
Putz. Don't even know what a "socialist" is. Less so that you're a tool for your corporate "Capitalist" owner. Enjoy your single-wide and minimum wage. And remember, if not for the Dems, you wouldn't even have the latter. Your owner would have you working for a dime a week. Take that to your next teabagger meet-up, softy.