E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSSMass protests were called across Egypt on Tuesday against the ruling military council's bid to grab new powers, as the United States and Britain called for a swift transfer of leadership.
The Muslim Brotherhood, which has claimed victory in the country’s presidential election, urged demonstrations against generals who issued decrees dissolving the Islamist-dominated parliament and claiming all legislative power for themselves.
Regional news channel, Al Jazeera, reported crowds had already started gathering in Tahrir Square late Tuesday. Protesters also gathered in Egypt's second city of Alexandria, Reuters said.
However, there was little hope of unity among the parties hoping to lead the new Egypt into a new era beyond military rule.
A spokesman for Ahmed Shafik, the former prime minister who served in the era of former President Hosni Mubarak, claimed victory in the presidential election described the assertion by the Muslim Brotherhood as “false”, Al Jazeera said.
"What we have at the moment is both sides claiming they have won, and both sides are using exactly the same figures,” said Al Jazeera's Mike Hanna.
Egypt's passage from revolution to democracy was in limbo on Monday, as the Muslim Brotherhood claimed victory in a presidential election while the generals who took over from Hosni Mubarak decreed it was they who would keep power for now. NBC's Richard Engel reports.
The official results are not expected until Thursday.
Egypt’s ruling army council, which took control when Mubarak was driven from office last year, issued an 11th-hour decree assuming legislative powers until a new parliament is elected, and keeping control of army affairs.
The decree came out on Sunday as counting for the presidential vote was under way. Days earlier the army had implemented a court ruling to dissolve the Islamist-led parliament, stripping the Brotherhood of its biggest gain since Mubarak was ousted.
The United States urged Egypt's military to move swiftly on plans to transfer full power to an elected civilian government on Monday, and suggested failure to do so would prompt a review of U.S. ties, which includes billions of dollars in military and civilian aid.
Military guards Egypt power as Islamists claim victory
Both the State Department and the Pentagon - which oversees the close military links between the two countries - voiced concerns over moves by Egypt's generals to tighten their grip on power despite a presidential vote aimed at sealing the country's democratic future.
The military power grab represents a dilemma for the Obama administration, which publicly backed the revolution that toppled longtime leader Hosni Mubarak last year but also sees the Egyptian army as a crucial regional security partner.
At the same time, some in Washington may share the Egyptian military's wariness of the Muslim Brotherhood, a popular Islamist group whose candidate some reports said was leading in Egypt's presidential vote.
State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said Egypt was at a critical juncture and the United States was "concerned by decisions that appear to prolong the military's hold on power."
"We call on the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces (SCAF) to restore popular and international confidence in the democratic transition process by following through on their stated commitments," Nuland told a news briefing.
The United States, the main financial supporter of Egypt's military, will hold the council to its promises for an inclusive constitutional drafting process, the timely seating of a democratically elected parliament, and the swift, permanent transfer of power to a civilian government, Nuland said.
"They've made a commitment to the Egyptian people, and we want to see them meet it," Nuland said.
"This is an evolving situation that we are watching closely. The decisions that are taken in this crucial period are naturally going to have an impact on the nature of our engagement with the government and with the SCAF moving forward," she said.
The concerns were echoed on Tuesday by Britain’s Foreign Secretary William Hague, who said: ““We were concerned by recent announcements of the dissolution of Parliament and the reintroduction of powers of arrest and detention for the military. The process of drafting a new, inclusive Constitution and the holding of new parliamentary elections should be taken forward as soon as possible.
“The UK will continue to support the people of Egypt in their aspirations for greater economic opportunities, political participation, freedom and rights, and to that end work with the Egyptian leadership elected by the people.”
The Obama administration in March formally released $1.3 billion in military aid for Egypt despite Cairo's failure to meet pro-democracy goals, saying U.S. national security required continued military assistance.
U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton waived congressional conditions imposed late last year that tied U.S. aid to progress in Egypt's transition to democracy following Mubarak's ouster.
Egypt has received more than $1 billion annually in U.S. military aid for years, and Congress has also approved $250 million in economic aid and up to $60 million for an "enterprise fund" for this fiscal year, which ends on September 30.
Political analysts said the latest move by the Egyptian military had forced the United States into a difficult position
"The United States has to decide if it wants to be associated with this counter-revolution by the military," said Michele Dunne, director of the Atlantic Council's Rafik Hariri Center for the Middle East.
"They have to be asking themselves now whether waiving those conditions on the (military) aid was wise."
Reuters contributed to this report.
More world news from msnbc.com and NBC News:
- Report: Russian shipment of attack helicopters for Syria halted off Scotland
- 20 years on, will world make good on Rio Earth Summit's 'broken promises'?
- Bangladesh reportedly closes border to refugees from Myanmar violence
- EU chief at G20 Summit: We're not here to 'receive lessons from nobody!'
- Taliban bans Pakistan polio vaccinations over drone strikes
- Luka Magnotta, suspected dismemberment killer, extradited to Canada
Follow us on Twitter: @msnbc_world
Leave a Comment:
This will be very interesting in the months leading up to the Nov. election...How does the POTUS keep Libs happy while doing the right thing?
resign
The POTUS always makes the libs happy by "doing the right thing". That's just the way it is.
WTF, the military in Egypt is attempting to keep the Muslim brotherhood in check, the brotherhood is the grandfather of all Muslim extremists today, their sworn goal, destruction of Israel, and the United States; and we are warning the military, that they should allow the brotherhood to take over Egypt and turn it into a Islamic state; hell what the heck or we doing in Iraqi, Bosnia, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia; I do believe we have lost our minds.(at least our government has)
Hmmmm, whom did the U.S. and the NATO folks support during Egyptian "Arab Spring" ? Yep, the rebels who turned out to be the Muslim Brotherhood who loves peace in the M.E., and especially with Israel.
And the threat looms for the Egyptian military to "transfer" power to the MB otherwise, American taxpayer dollars in aid are going to be "reviewed" even though BOTH candidates in the election are now CLAIMING VICTORY.
I wonder what Mr. Obama is going to announce in the Rose Garden on this issue. Maybe he will have either Ed Schultz, Chris Matthews, Bill Maher, Hilary Rosen, Rev. Wright, Al Sharpton, or Jesse Jackson speak on his behalf.
They need a pharaoh bad.
POTUS never does the right thing. Jimmy Carter is so happy that Obama has demonstrated ignorance well beyond anything Carter did. Heck, Obama is just a Carter turd with ears - ain't that gross!
Yes by all means let's warn another country. Is there one we haven't warned yet? This sh!t has to stop!
I think the front channels are voicing one thing, and the back channel another.
Admin has to say publicly to hold to your promise. But there are close ties between our military and theirs. Most of their officers trained here and made friends. Seems to me the military is saving the countries azz. I'd trust their military to relinquish power once they figure out how to ditch the brotherhood and have another clean election.
Why is it our job to comment on every single step every country makes? Obama lectures and warns everybody to do as he dictates. How about let Egypt figure out who they want to represent them and stop giving money to them for any reason. Since Obama is promising other people's money how about he ask us what we think? I guarantee you that the majority of citizens here in the US would not support sending billions to arm Egypt.
What is really annoying is that coming to the defense of the Muslim Brotherhood is like supporting any extreme group. I would bet that Obama has more scorn for the Tea Party than he does the Muslim Brotherhood.
Our country is upside down. We are not becoming any more popular for all the FREE STUFF.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I would think that its clearly illegal, against the constitution, and certainly TREASONOUS to be sending our tax dollars out of the country to ANY other country friendly or not and for any reason. Isn't that money supposed to be used HERE IN THIS FRIGGIN COUNTRY!? Isnt that obvious taxation without representation? How long are we going to sit here and take this? Yep, the precious US Gov'mint certainly knows just how to strike fear into the hearts of its people and has their own box cutters held to every one of our necks, keeping us quite lest our plane go down (or being jailed/imprisoned)!
This post is just a picture perfect example of how so many on the Right cannot make a legitimate argument. Thirty something words that say nothing of any value at all.
Instead of even attempting to say something of worth the poster has reverted to the behavior of a five year old. And bad enough that someone writes such absolute trash like this but perhaps worse that they almost always find supporters. You all should be so proud.
Now O'Bama is protecting the Muslim Brotherhood an Extremist Islamic Terrorist Group in Egypt!! The Brotherhood wants Egypt to become an Islamic Terrorist State and O'Bama & the U.K. want to PROTECT the Extremist Islamic Group!! Hello, they have been killing anyone (including Americans & Britons) and everyone else who does not agree with their Religious Teachings and the U.S. & the U.K. want to give them assistance. Maybe this is O'Bama paying back his Islamic Indonesian friends from his childhood - once a Muslim always a Muslim. It's the Egyptian military who has been keeping this group in "check" for years and protecting American allies in the area from attacks from this group.
Egypt should let the islamic morons have the country. If the people were stupid enough to vote them in, the so-be-it. However that being said we should slso advise Egypt that if they continue on the path to Jihad, and they kill one American we are going to turn their country into a glass parking lot. Enough is enough.
The Egyptians should be free to elect whomever they please without our interference. Of course that doesn't mean that if they elect someone whose actions are antithetical to our best interests we are obligated to keep sending them money. However continuing to send our money to foreign institutions who subvert the democratic process in their own country is never in our best interests.
Now the foolish Egyptians are faced with a choice of two evils, the military, or the muslims! Guess what! The military is the lesser of these two evils. If the muslims get control Egypt will rapidly slide into the the same pit of all the other muslim nations, total failure, hatred, killing, cessation of education, denigration of women and a cruel dominance by the hate filled culture of islam. Wake up Egypt!
voxrationis - and you are playing in the sandbox with jamie alvarez but you must get down off that spring horsey.
what you see in egypt is not democracy in action and what is with all this democracy stuff, democracy does not represent freedom, just read any notables scholars writing about democracy and how long it lasted before it got turned into a dictatorship. why does obama back muslim uprisings? islam has declared war on all non-muslims thousands of years ago, thats why we had the crusades but that was religion control vs religion control and the outcome was a loss for the the masses but islam has never admitted defeat and they never stopped warring with others.
NAZI party was democratically elected and look how that turned out, you even had other state figures helping him and telling the others who saw the trouble that everything was alright, up till hitler started coming after them, they even allowed him to conquer and kill mass-civilians before anyone did anything. hitler even had a muslim panzer division lead by the grand mufti, they had the same goals.
we have failed but have yet to see the result.
Does anyone truly believe that Egypt is better off with the Muslim Brotherhood instead of the Military? Probably Obama does!
It's a quick fix, just let the Jews do what they do best.
@Swagganaut--I can see you are a true student of real history--and not the revisionist history so many would like us to accept. Thank you for a well-crafted, thoughtful post.
Only problem with that is, on this board there are a lot of people who prefer to reject the truth--even when it comes up and bites them on the ass.
And, for all the others who brand anyone here who shows the least bit of conservatism or a bent towards Christianity in their post as "far right-wing reactionary nut jobs"--Remember, Abraham Lincoln was a Republican!
People need to get it through their head that there isn't a right thing. There things that we like to see accomplished from USA's position. However, it may not be the best Egypt. At this point, Egypt will under go turmoils and must appreciate themselves the struggle for self improvement and demands.
Amazing how some of the Republican fans don't understand it... It is starting to appear that Republcians are simply looking to follow singular directives versus the Democrats are simply looking to respect diversity.
I wish people would stop blaming our government for this situation and look at the reality of it all. To begin with, if Egypt doesn’t solve this Muslim Brotherhood problem soon their tourism industry will melt away like a snow cone on an August day and their economy will collapse. Worse than the loss of tourism; it’s a safe bet that Israel is getting ready to defend itself with everything they have in their arsenal and we all know what that means. How could the Egyptian people be so stupid voting for these Muslim terrorists?
If I recall from interviews on television, they don't want to be subservient to anyone. If the Brotherhood begins to be intrusive in peoples affairs I would expect the emerging of a opposition party.
I would think Egyptians prefer liberty rather than a theocracy.
@GovHater
No it isn't. It's called diplomacy and every country does it to a certain extent. Remember, the French provided coin and supplies during our revolutionary war. That was military aid. However, this (admittedly from the wiki article on the subject, but I think it will suffice) lends certain doubt as to the actual constitutionality of it:
Please note the "Citation Needed" qualifiers, however.
No. Because that phrase means that you are being taxed and you have no one representing your interests with respect to how that money is spent. If you live in the US, you have your representatives in Congress and the Senate, as well as regional city and state representatives. If you're unhappy with the fact that so much money is being provided in foreign aid, I suggest that you write your congressmen a statement of your displeasure.
Keep dreaming, kid. If the Muslim Brotherhood doesn't get "elected" into power over there some other Islamofascist nutjob will. Probably one that will be an a-hole ten times bigger than Mubarak ever was. It's how they roll over there.
let's be rational here. The military will never give up power, causing mass demonstrations not only from the Muslim Brotherhood (which had a weak electoral turnout in the presidential race), but from all that hated the old regime. The military junta will then try and break up the protests, leading to more confrontations and, ultimately, civil war. But here's where leadership is needed on the global scale, having smooth transitions that help the revolutionary countries. Tunisia did it. Libya's trying. Egypt, however, will get worse, and now's the time for the world to have a quick glance at them while they sit back and watch Syria burn.
Spring protest 2011
Summer protest 2012
Fall protest 2013
Winter protest 2014..(depends on how much snow they get in Egypt).
Results..nada..same as ten thousand years ago!
Well they lost the election so military power should belong to whoever is in power.
Seems this is leading to a Military Coup! Not sure how to judge this one. Could be the military does not want Muslims running the country...which would be a good thing..maybe. Hope it does not turn into a coup d'etat!
Give it time folks. If this administration gets in another 4 years this country will be run by the muslim brotherhood!
Conan asked, when told by his bumbling sidekick in the movie, Conan The Destroyer, that the gods were not pleased: "Are you surprised?" I asked: "Are you surprised, that the Muslim Brotherhood are furious that they have been thwarted just when they thought their plots and plans, including lies when necessary, in order to take over Egypt begin to bear fruits; and the US government was beside itself with frustration when their favorite the MB was not about to rule Egypt as they wished after all.
It's an open secret that a way was purposely paved by this administration to allow the Muslim Brotherhood to rise.
During his infamous Cairo speech, did you know that Obama insisted to President Hosni Mubarak the MB be allowed to be among the audience of his his speech at the Islamic University! Mubarak had little choice; he gave in. I don't know if the Muslim Brotherhood thumbed their nose at him as a celebration of their first victory. Not only that; Obama also left no room for doubt in his speech whom he's rooting for, when he told - or shall we say goaded, his audience: "You have the universal right to determine who rules Egypt (you). If your government doesn't listen to your demands, fight them he said; for your rights!" And fight they did. Chaos and mayhems were the order of the days in Egypt after that infamous speech.
The revolutionary youths, as they labelled themselves, filled the Tahrir square to capcity to demand the downfall of President Mubarak, anything less was not acceptable. During the height of the turmoil, encouraging sound from President Obama himself continued unabated: "We hear you! Oh, brave people of Egypt; never lose hope, continue until victory! The Us is on your side! We support your demands for the government to resign! Soon you will be able to enjoy the same life that Americans enjoy in America! The US stands willing and ready to help bring your revolution to success."
It's a wellknown fact that the Pentagon, the state department and the president himself arm-twisted Mubarak to step down; when he refused, they worked on the Egyptian military, the backbone of Mubarak's power, and they worked flawlessly! They succeeded after repeated attempts to force the generals to disown Mubarak, and the Egyptian president fell like ten pins!
It's still not clear why the Obama administration worked so hard to promote an institution that promotes tears, heartache, death and destruction to the world. Why not just give lip service? And why want to destroy something that brought peace and less destruction to the world? Mubarak, despite his faults, had worked endlessly to promote peace between Israel and its neighbours and saved thousands of lives.
Because of Mubarak, President Bashar of Syria became less aggressive toward the Jewish state. While Mubarak didn't stop bloodshed totally, he contrbuted a great deal to reducing it.
And what did he get for his service? He was humiliated, prosecuted, sent to prison after he gave up powers at the insistence of President Obama!
Without the interferance of the US government, Mubarak would still be in power today and his health wouldn't have deteriorated so rapidly; the state of Israel would not have to contend with frequent incursions from the Sinai territory which it gave back to Egypt to earn goodwill.
Uring the time the MB was campaigning for votes it hid its fangs tempoarily in order to fool the Egyptian people, women and the Coptic Christians. But after it did well by blackmail and lies - that those who did not vote for it would go to heaven. They used the mosques and the sermons to great advantage.
They promised they are not power hungry; would not run for president. They would be moderate to everyone.
But once they had made some headway (in parliament), they had conveniently forgotten those words. They threatened Israel regularly, including abrogation of the peace treaty with the Jews. Threats to cut off gas supplies were the norm now.
It's not clear why they always want to be bad or do bad things to other people. Why can't it live in peace with the Jewish state, which is far from meaning harm to Egypt? Perhaps that's their way and culture. Fine by me; provided they could come up (rise up) through their own efforts, not having their path paved by the US president. Even to run for the office of the Egyptian president, they reportedly sought the green light from Washington. But still they had the gall to be unfriendly to the Jewish state which is supposed to be protected by the US government. Funny, they didn't even pretend to be friendly to the Jews to be in the good book of the US government.
Perhaps they knew all the US administrations pledge to protect Israel's security but..it seemed to them, the Obama administration has no intention to standby that pledge.
If a war broke out between the Jewish state and its Arab neighbors, and Israel, despite its superior military force, wa seen as in dire need of help, this administration will come to Israel's help alright but...with a high price; so high that it would be humiliating for Israel. And Obama would trumpet his good deed round the clock; his legion of showhost supporters will give their all to praise the president 24/7 for another success story of his presidency.
If that's all that ever happened to the Jewish state, they should thank their luck stars. Obama might even force them to not only stop building new settlements, but to uproot all the old ones, including shrinking Israel back to before 1967!
Obama had made clear he supports the Palestinian demands for Israel to shrink, so that they can take over its lucrative farms and fresh water sources. There would be no love lost between between the president and Israel, in any case.
Just like the West keeps "warning" Syria ...
Everyone who didn't expect this to be a disaster please raise your hands.
That would be everyone who thinks that the Arab Spring was a good thing and supported it.....including the Obama administration.
Yeah, overthrowing dictatorships should be neat and clean and go perfectly according to schedule.
THEIR schedule, not ours.
/sarc??
The Arab spring is a bad thing for whom? If more people in other countries would rise up against their oppressive governments, maybe we'd be a little better off for it...
WTF are we doing in the middle of all these CIVIL WAR type situations in the Middle East?! First it was Yemen, then Libya, then Egypt, then Syria, now Egypt again. WHY DOES IT ALL HAVE TO BECOME OUR PROBLEM?! We should never have been involved in IRAQ either!
Worst of all, we're intervening to support the Islamists who seek to ultimately destroy us. Libya is not better off since we bombed them. Egypt is circling the drain, on the verge of being controlled by theocratic hate-mongers. In Syria, the opposition looks to be chock full of Islamist fanatics. Yet we keep supporting these "protesters" who are really wolves in waiting.
We are not "helping," we are making things worse.
We'd be better off with more Islamic dictatorships? More Irans? How do you figure that?
If those who rise up against their oppressive governments wish to replace it with something even more repressive, i.e. in Egypt's case the Muslim Brotherhood, I guess we should be the cheeleaders?
Hmmm...I think that IS what Airborne DAD is saying.
Adam44 post 2.5
Bravo you nailed it with your post, We were all taken in by the "Arab Spring" but now the true colors of these revolutionaries are shining though. All Muslim extremists are bad news for civilizilized world.
@BigAl: I wasn't taken in by the Arab Spring. Did anyone really expect a different outcome? Hardline fundamentalists, al qaeda, boko harem, al shabab, whatever name they go by, have been in all of these countries trying to rouse up the populations to overthrow their current governments for at least the last several years. Look at Africa, Yemen, Syria, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, all over the middle east. Why are we beefing up our military in Kuwait? Coincidence? These countries are like dominoes falling, one after the other. I hate to say it, but most of these countries would have a better outcome if they had remained under their previous governments. How can a rigid theocracy be better? I know the liberals will say "just because you don't agree with their form of government they chose doesn't mean it's bad". Well, look at Iran. It's not like any of these fundamentalists are going to step down peacefully because the people want them to. It will never happen. Egypt is going back 1000 years if their military cannot hold onto power until the dust settles in that country. Hopefully, the Egyptian people will wake up and realize the MB is probably not the best choice. They will have traded one dictatorship for another, and the one they replaced will look like candyland compared to the MB.
So now we are defending the rights of the Muslim Brotherhood as well as illegal immigrants. Is this all some kind of joke?
Not a JOKE. This is just part of Mr. Obama's "Transforming America" and his move "Forward" campaign agenda.
FORWARD....right over that cliff! That's Barry's agenda. Guess what? We can toss him out.
And do what, vote in Willard/Mittens aka Bush III on steroids? Better yet Sarah Palin can have a 2nd chance as VP, the country/world will be soooooooooo much better with them in charge, like night and day literally overnight... right? Seek help if you answer yes.
Strait from the last administrations playbook!
No credit for that one, Airborne--President Obama promised us that whole "hopey/changey" thing. I for one hope it doesn't change into anything worse than it is right now, after 3 1/2 yrs. on his watch.
I hope so too. But you'll have to get the party of NO and their teabagger handlers to start playing ball and do what congress is supposed to do....
my god you dems are so rabid in your ideology, you do nothing but repeat what your told and you have no information for yourself.
"the party of NO" WTF is this? what does that mean? you understand the dems are just the same amount of 'NO' as the repubs are?
"teabaggers" and other silly names; so by poking fun at a group of people, that somehow makes your point clearer?
"And do what, vote in Willard/Mittens aka Bush III on steroids?" so what is obama? not bush III? oh thats right, obama can do no harm and hes the greatest thing since the microwave, even though he continued most all of what bush II was doing, im sure it was bush II's fault that obama did these thing right?
i despise the rebubs as much as the dems (all politicians) but hey if i had to choose from only the two i might as well kill myself but really i would always choose rebubs because i know the history of the dems and i dont want to be a part of it, id rather march with rebubs as they wont be as likely to kill as many as the dems would. least the far right uses faith to control whilst the far left uses a strongman, either way i'd suppose we'd all suffer the same. at the moment i vote for none, neither party for decades have not put forth any decent candidate for me to even look at, they only ones ive seen were from 3rd party and unfortunately thats a wasted vote and only helps the dems in most cases, as it did electing clinton over bush I, perot split the vote which if didnt happen bush I would of won.
@sWAGG,
lmao!! Really??? The GOP have done nothing but undermine everything the Dems have tried to do to get things back on track. They've even admitted to making Obama a one term pres their priority and boy have they stuck to it... Start 2 wars? Cut taxes 2 time? All within about 3 years??? Who ??? Oh yah.. BUSH!! Now really. Can you honestly expect me to believe that did help out this country in a tailspin? Really? And don't give me that crap a GOP president would not have done the same to stave off a Depression! Because that's exactly where we would be had Obama not followed through with Bush's plan on bail out and his own! But NOOOOO! It's everything done after 2008 that has this country where it is now. Keep your head in the sand pal and listen to the GOP brainwashing on your headphones. You're definitely on your way to zombie GOPland!
@Airborne: In every presidential election, isn't there always a candidate running against the incumbent President? Isn't it the political party who is running against the incumbent always trying to make the incumbent a one term president? Just because John Boehner said it out loud doesn't mean that every president that has been elected, the party not in power didn't have this same objective. Can you say that if Romney is elected this November, the democrats won't round up a candidate to run against him in 2016? Of course they will, because thats what happens every four years. The other party ALWAYS WANTS THE INCUMBENT TO BE A ONE TERM PRESIDENT. Democrats should come up with another slogan that makes sense.
We send billions of dollars to Egypt????????? Don't we need that money here in the states???????
Cut off all aid to Egypt. We have our own problems and needs in this country. Screw those Muslims and whatever they want - they hate us with or without aid.
And we do NOT need those sand diggers!
Of course we need the money here in the states, but to Progressives on this uber liberal website money spent arming Islamists who hate us is ok, but send money to Israel and its bad. If we can convince the Progressives here that Egyptians are Jews and/or successful they'll get mad at the waste of funds.
do not give any more money.We could do with 1.3 billion here @ home. Maybe we could give it to the illegal's that obama is bringing in.break americans and the immigration groups that have come her legal.new American's the illegal's!!!bull S..t
Syria, Egypt.....who's next on filling even more the Big O's plate?
Many of the higher ranking officers and enlisted men of the Egyptian military have spent multiple time training and working with US of the same rank in the Pentagon. This will be interesting leading up to the November elections and to see what a Conscientious Objector candidate says. More fun if Mr. Romney wins and see what he does as Commander in Chief.
77 Observer Maybe your onto something. This could be set up by the GOP national and Karl Rove. "Syria, Egypt.....who's next on filling even more the Big O's plate?" All the rest answer to him and he answers to his puppet masters.
Can we PLEASE stop giving billions of dollars to people who hate us and invest it into our own country???? If we cut off all aid there's no telling how many American citizens the government could pull out of poverty or otherwise help out. And what about our failing infrastructure? Do you think Egypt is going to bail US out when we need it? Trust me, we will need it sooner or later...
Tamara:
Right thing to say is Can we please stop minding business of Middle East. Let them go to hell.
Can you imagine how much good would have been done in Joplin MO. repairing all of the damage done by tornadoes???
Thank God for Obama...he can throw money at muslims faster than rabbits can breed.
Who don't we give money to?
Our own people, that would be called an "entitlement" (even tho its our money)... don't know what you call it giving it to everyone else instead... to call it charity would discredit the word.
Ah yes another Middle East country that we have been giving billions of dollars to since WW11 and it was suppose to buy their loyalty, gone down the toilet just all the rest.
The Radical Muslims that are now claiming power are laughing all the way to the bank.
That is the mentality that has to change in Washington and with the people of this nation. We can not and will not buy loyalty.
It is just one rotten regime after another every 10 to 20 years and then it starts all over again. Usually with a country blaming us for all their troubles, wanting to kill us, while the next crooked leaders live in luxury off the backs of American tax payers.
I believe the article states that the aid is given to the military, not the radical muslims. Why would a country like us for giving money to the very entity which is oppressing them?
No matter the country/society, religion has been (and will continue to be) the worst part of mankind. It will, eventually, destroy all that it touches. It's a shame that in the 21st century, we still resort to violence and power trips based off of antiquated beliefs in magical fairies and water walking men.
Atheism is a new kind of religion which is much worse than all other religions, except for Islam.
The largest crimes in the history and killings of tens of millions were made in the 20th century by atheists, leftists, and socialists, such as national-socialist Hitler, communist Stalin, Mao, PolPot, etc., etc.
we will do away with religion in time, MT. Have faith in humanity, we learn, we grow.
I would like to say to Ivan for the record that Hitler was a fascist which is a far-right ideology. The others you mentioned staged revolutions, some of which were bloodier than they needed to be, but revolutions none the less. Was killing the English in our war for independence to be consider heinous crimes as well?
Atheism is not a religion. Also, all of those people were, first and foremost, nationalists. The fact that Hitler's government was fascist(not socialist), Stalin's and Mao's were communist, and Pot was just crazy, are very much secondary to their attempts to make their country "great"
Anyone placing their faith in humanity is making a sucker's bet.
I'd like to point out that Stalin and Mao murdered about 50 million people combined and they were far closer to Progressives in their political beliefs than most here realize. Scratch a Progressive and out pops Joe Stalin
The progressives I know are so ultra-leftist liberal in their views, they think that moderate, bi-partisan and centrist all mean "hawkish, arch-conservative". Sometimes, it's useful to just smile and nod a bit--you know, like when you visit a foreign country where no one speaks more than 3 words of English, and you speak about that many of their local language. Music and gardening tend to be the only topics of conversation that don't get too political with these folks.
Sorry, Sal, but the idea that the Nazis were right wing is a myth perpetuated by the left, to avoid taking credit themselves while discrediting the right. Nazi is short for NAtionalist SOcialist (in German of course). They were very much left wing.
Sorry FrugalDemocrat, even SCOTUS has declared that atheism is a religion. The belief in zero god's (atheism) is taken on faith just as much as the belief in one god (monotheism) or many (polytheism). You can't prove or disprove scientifically any of these beliefs - they are all taken on faith. Religion, one and all.
Thanks Tabasco Ed for articulating that. I couldn't come up with a post as coherent. It is baffling to me how Atheists insist they aren't a religion. It's a blind faith that we're all here because of a spontaneous combustion (of what, I wonder?) and are barrelling at warp speed towards oblivion and nothingness.
This reflects badly on Obama and political skill of our Government. We cannot behave like what is in our best interest triumphs what is best interest of the people of Egypt and free and fair government. Military hegemony over any Government like Pakistan will be step backward for USA and it will reveal our hypocrisy.
What reflects positively on him?
Nothing according to "republicons".
He has kept our armed forces out of North Korea, don't forget.
It takes more than an election to make a democracy. Egyptian military is the primary stabilizing force in the society. I would hate to imagine what will happen in Egypt if the Moslem Brotherhood actually get control of the country.
The fact that Obama is supporting the takeover of Egypt by the Moslem Brotherhood is bad news for Israel and bad news for the USA.
has been and will be bad news for the US
Bad news for Israel is not bad news for us and bad news for Democracy. If Israel can have theocracy why not Egypt. If settlers have free pass why not Muslim Brotherhood.
Frankly my dear I do nto care a damn for either.
Obviously you're clueless since Israel has a Parliamentary style Democracy modeled on Europe's. Why does bigotry destroy intellect? The fact you don't know the difference between a friendly country and the organization that bombed the ETC in 1993 is amazing.
I won't pretend to be totally current on the situation in Egypt but... my understanding is that the Muslim Brotherhood (party) is far less extreme and radical than some of the other factions vying for power in the current election. We shouldn't be completely swayed by their party name, they are said to be more reasoned than most particularly regarding women's rights. Having said that, the current clash between them and the military will certainly be interesting. Things that make you go "hmmmm..."
Reader-2838471, that is called telling them what they want they want to hear. Hitler told the people what they wanted to hear also. After he got elected, he built gas chambers for millions of them. The Muslim Brotherhood will also turn on the people once they have been handed power by telling the people what they wanted to hear. There was a reason Mubarak kept a lid on them, declared them to be terrorists, and outlawed them. They are terrorists, and they can't be trusted. They are no different from Hamas or Hezbollah.
I would just like to add to that--there is a principle in Islam called "takkiya" which is essentially a green light to be deceptive or actually outright lie to your opposition, if it furthers the cause of the spread of Islam (the MB's version of Islam.) That is what the Muslim Brotherhood and all those other satellite Islamist organizations operate on. Meaning that any agreement they make with us (or their military for that matter) whether verbal or written is not worth the oxygen it took or the paper it was written on.
Hey Obozo, hows that Arab Spring that you were so HOT on, working for ya now? Is this Hope and Change Arab style?
I'm guessing you're so stupid you didn't even notice it stated we've been doing this for years. That and the fact that Obama has nothing to do with it. Learn your facts before you spout of nonsense. And get an education while you're at it.
No Megan IF you had tuned into Obozo's speeches on the ARAB SPRING it happened under HIS term NOT BUSH sorry liberal but YOU are wrong! YOU should get an education.
Us inter-nuts kept saying that the Arab Spring would really be a radical Islamic winter. Too bad we were right.
Gee Megan its running 4 to 1 CONSERVATIVE. Sorry. LOL
Midas- So you are for democracy until they vote for someone who hates us? That isn't being pro-democracy.
They didn't vote for anyone that will be anything resembling pro-democratic, either. The Muslim Brotherhood has an often-cited, often published mission statement. I would suggest you read it sometime and see what the agenda of this "democratically elected" government really is. Egypt's poor will become even poorer now that the current political standoff has begun to scare away all kinds of tourism, on which they heavily rely. Where do you see any possibility that Muslim Brotherhood will improve life for ANYONE in that country, or who wishes to visit that country. I'm just sad I never got around to that trip to see the pyramids before all this happened.
I think we need to thank the Saudis for putting a stop to the Arab Spring in Bahrain!
Megan-747865, you're suspended for a day for violating #1 of the Code of Honor.
...
Midas Mulligan banned, rereg of multiple accounter ren-755775.
Well people should know when fall for all of that Hope and Change crap the only thing you can do is hope you can Change it back.
Some of us don't want to live in an intolerant country full of bigotry. Some of us will not live in that country. Not everyone thinks the same as you. It takes all kinds.
I assume you were looking in the mirror when you posted this.
Waiting for the follow up story on this on how many people have died to do bombings and missile strikes. I swear, these people will never learn.
A hollow threat by the US and UK in a situation they have no business in.
The utter incompetence of everything that is the OBUMA Presidency. It must cut like a knife to all the Libs who can no longer deny that he is a complete failure.
Things are better than they've been in 4 years. Not giving credit to Obama necessarily. Our economy is growing. Terrorists aren't attacking. Obama will be reelected because things are better. You just hate Obama so your world sucks right now. Get over it.
Half&Half/Hillary are so proud of their support for the radical muslims.
Warn them, sure. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, know what I mean, know what I mean.
They sold me a dead parrot.
How many times must the USA citizens tell Washington.....NO MORE AID.....NOT TODAY.....NOT TOMORROW....NEVER......TO THESE COUNTRIES THAT HATE US AS MUCH IF WE GAVE THEM NOTHING OR ALL THIS DAMN AID!!!!! When will people ever learn.....
Alan:
If we stop minding in their internal affair we do nto have to give them money. We are like a john paying to prostitutes like Egypt and Israel, pay to play
Okay, keep giving all of our money to other countries- sure, why not. It makes sense to help out everyone else whether or not they appreciate it at the risk of our own survival. I think it's stupid we give these other countries so much in money, aid and military supplies when there is absolutely no mutual benefit on our end. And American Idiots still want to blame this guy Obama like it was his bright idea.
Megan:
they need economic AId to educte people and build wells, water system, roads and we give mostly for military for our own purpose.
They have been given billions over the last 60 years. What have they learned with all this Aid? Oh that's right...They kill one another over a stupid idiot soccer game (77 dead by 1000's of fans). This is who we are given this aid to. 60 years and I do not see any education you speak of because they are still back near the Stone Age in their beliefs and NO amount of money is going to EVER change them, period! You can never ever change someone that does not want to change. I do not know what is going to happen in that area because it is a powder keg ready to explode because people just can not no matter the consequences stop with the hate and bigotry towards one another.
Alan you are wasting your words on Megan she is a hopeless progressive liberal.
If I remember my history correctly, and I may not, we support Egypt's military in return for the right to use the Suez Canal, and for Egypt to help patrol the Straight's of Hormuze (is that how it's spelled?). Think of it as a "shipping cost" that good old Uncle Sam covers for our business intrests.
Lol. That was mostly for GODGRAVITION and some of the other folks about aid. I do not like to get into The Political or Religious Rhetoric part of it (as in God will strike you down or Left vs Right crap). I just feel it was thrown (good) money down the drain (it is OUR money that is being used). I just have a problem giving all this AID to every Tom, Dick and Abdullah around the World.
Yep. It'd be interesting to find out how many billions of those trillions we gave were funneled into the pockets of some government official or military official. 60 years and bazillions of dollars later, there is very little to show for it. We send them aid, and they spend it on luxury for themselves at the top, etc. How many of these guys have their own islands in the South Pacific?
We have given them aid money for things besides their military. If we build schools with it we than then have to stand by and watch as some of the many branches of followers of the Muslim Brotherhood philosophy destroy them or force girls to stay at home and miss being educated--even enough to read and write? I don't feel much sympathy toward the Muslim Brotherhood--they use their funds and influence to promote hate and intolerance of minorities, marginalize women and girls, and impose 7th century standards on society. Megan, even if they were elected democratically (I frankly have my doubts about the validity of the election) they are not the "good guys" My 2-year old always wanted to touch the hot stove, but that doesn't mean it was a good idea.
One purpose of the military aid is so that they will spend the money buying stuff from our defense industry. The money gets spent here, on aircraft, helicopters, etc., keeping our people employed.
Momcat99,
Thank God we have calculators or we would completely run out of fingers and toes to count how much. Fact is you could count ALL the fingers and toes of every American and you still would not get there. It might not be bazillions but close enough, lol. So instead of counting everyone's fingers and toes for the money we give over to people that could care a grain of salt about us. Just no aid, then we don't need to count to a bazillion.
Like they really care what Obama has to say. They think he is so weak and won't be reelected that he's a joke to them.
I almost can't believe I'm saying this--but we need someone who will scare the sh#t out of these guys, in the same way Ronald Reagan's entry to office got those friggin' Ayatollahs to snap to attention and release the American hostages. I do not believe our current president is that person.
Can anyone show me a law ,that says the USA has to send $ Millions $ and $ Billions $ of Dollars plus aid to all the worlds cesspools???When we don't even have a pot to pee in...
It's called the People in charge law and we put them in office. They control our everyday life even after they promise to do this and do that and get us out of debt. They will spend our money fast as possible on just about anything you can think of. Then they appoint other folks in branches and then they rip us off by lavish parties in Vegas or some scam or even don't do their jobs properly because they are just plain lazy and Medicare gets ripped off for billions (again our money we so kindly send to our such kind Government). You get one vote that's it. They are in charge, period. They don't have to play by any rules that you and I believe in. They have their own rules, laws and agendas to carry out. Best way to put it is that we are screwed.
Nothing like sticking our nose in every other country's business. Can we, please, concentrate on the problems we have here in the US and try to distance ourselves from the various problems in North Africa and the Middle East and Greece and Spain?
We tried that in the late 1930's and early 1940's. In return, Pearl Harbor got bombed. Making sure that global conflicts stay in other parts of the world protects our homeland. Isolationism does not.