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Subscribe to RSSUpdated at 5:30 p.m. Friday ET: The office of Turkey's prime minister said early Saturday that Syria downed a Turkish F-4 air force jet over the Mediterranean. The Syrian military, in a statement circulated on state media, said the plane was flying over its waters.
Turkey will take all necessary measures “decisively” once all the details of the incident emerge, said the office of Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan after a two-hour security meeting. It did not specify what the steps would be.
Search and rescue operations forthe warplane's missing airmen were continuing, Erdogan's office said.
Syria's military said, "Our air defenses confronted a target that penetrated our air space over our territorial waters pre-afternoon on Friday and shot it down. It turned out to be a Turkish military plane."
Of Friday, Erdogan told reporters at a news conference covered by NBC News he could not say whether the plane had crashed or been shot down.
"The chief of general staff has made the necessary statement about the missing plane. I am not saying it was brought down at the point it fell. It is not possible to say this without knowing the exact facts," Erdogan said.
He said he wasn't aware of any Syrian claims of responsibility for bringing down the plane or of earlier reports that Syrian authorities had apologized.
Earlier, Lebanon's Hezbollah-owned Al-Manar television station said that Syrian air defenses shot down a Turkish military aircraft, quoting Syrian security sources.
"Syrian security sources confirmed to a Manar correspondent in Damascus that Syrian defense forces shot down the Turkish fighter jet," a news flash on the Beirut-based station said.
Pro-Iranian Al-Mayadeen television station, which is based in Lebanon, also quoted what it said were Turkish sources as saying a jet had been shot down by Syrian air defenses.
Turkey -- a member of NATO -- said it had lost contact with a plane while it was over the sea off the southeastern coast, and a television station said it had crashed in Syrian territorial waters.
In a statement, Turkey's military said it lost radar and radio contact with the plane after it took off from Erhac Airport in the eastern province of Malatya.
Two crew were aboard the F-4 at the time of the crash, the Turkish state news agency Anatolia said on its website, citing Malatya governor Ulvi Saran.
Turkish warplanes regularly patrol along and off Turkey's southern Mediterranean coast.
Turkey has joined nations such as the U.S. in saying that Syrian President Bashar Assad should step down because of the uprising in his country. Turkey also has set up refugee camps on its border for more than 32,000 Syrians who have fled the fighting.
This article includes reporting by Reuters and The Associated Press.
Reports are surfacing that Syria may have shot down a Turkish fighter jet over Syrian waters in the Mediterranean Sea. NBC's Richard Engel reports.
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What in God and Allahs name is Hezbollah that mass murdering internationally indicted criminal group controlling a T.V station in Lebanon?.As for the main point..Syria.which is now a complete rogue state and is supported and armed by another criminal state Iran better come up with a good explanation...if this story is true? .In any case, the beasts in Syria have their days numbered..This act might just further move up the defeat and perhaps hanging of Assad and his band of of butchers. Like his father, Assad is a nazii like pyschopath!
For your continuing enlightenment .. REVELATION 17.. aka the British empire..
I'm sorry, what British Empire?? They are a little third rate country.
This was obviously a test of Syrian airspace by Turkey using old F4 Phantoms. I suspect they anticipated being fired on by Syrian forces and the intelligence information passed on to Israel and the US in-case the military option is used in the future. Nothing like another war to keep the neocons (like McCain) happy.
Easy Bart, don't let your Zionist, Arab hating brain, get in an uproar. We know Israel wants Assad out of power, but America cannot afford any more wars for Israel. With Russia in the equation, it is even more out of the question.
If the Turkish plane was violating Syrian airspace, it deserved to be shot down. If not, Syria may have a problem, but it appears the Turks were in the wrong.
Hear the sound off in the distance.... WW3.
marlen,
"This was obviously a test of Syrian airspace by Turkey using old F4 Phantoms."
Flying into a barrage of AAA and surface-to-air missile fire is not exactly the best way of testing another country's air space. More sophisticated nations would study the electronic warfare order of battle first before flying in.
Remember, this is Syria we are talking about. Their response to the F-4 is the, um, Mig-21.
Nothing beats an old plane better than, yeah, an even older plane!
Such a great post - if I may though - Hezbollah has been controlling Lebanon for years - where is the UN - and the world - Hezbollah has knocked out any freedoms in Lebanon - the whole thing is a joke - Hamas in the Gaza - they took the land from Abbas - where is that indignation - no - instead the whole region blames everything on Israel - such shame!
Derek,
"Remember, this is Syria we are talking about."
Yes, but Syria has a pretty sophisticated and well-developed air defense network for a third-world nation. That's one of the benefits of being old allies of the Soviet Union. They also have air defense radars bought from the French.
Bart Martin: Hezbollah bought the station to broadcast warnings about the militant Americans, the Israeli Army invading or attacking Lebanon, and to sell politics. The US finances all sorts of subversive gangbangers around the world- remember El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaruagua, and Honduras in the 1980s? Now the US gangbangers are in Libya and Syria. Hezbollah will fight the Israelis if they invade again. End US empire building.
News flash for simple Simon - Hezbollah has the support of a very large portion of Lebanon's population. US and Israel like democracy and will of the people only when it suits their needs.
Didn't you know that Obama/Cameron and Putin will have a peace conference in Geneva,Swoitzerland -granting clemency/immunity to Bashar al-Assad? (Obama/Putin G-20 sideline powwow). Fatcs known- a Turkish warplane (F-4) with 2 pilots on board took off 10:00 a.m. from the Erhac airbase in Malatya,Central Anatolia. Communications were lost with the aircraft 11:58 a.m. over the sea just off the SW of Hatay province. (Look at the map- Syrian national waters- not international waters),Iranian and Hizbollah TV stations in Lebanon citing locals- Turkish warplane shot down by SAM (Surface-to -Air-Missile)by Syrian defense forces or the warplane crashed- and 2 pilots rescued (whether taken prisoners or just rescued). The Turkish fighterjet was on a recon mission. Hurriyet Daily News/Homepage/Turkey/Local (Ankara) yle.fi/vg.no/dn.se report just the confirmed facts- Turkish jetfighter was in Syrian national waters- not international waters. Turkish/Syrian rescuers working together to locate pilots in Syrian waters.
I'm not sure there even was a plane.
And at that, an F-4? That's the kind of fighter that Ozzie and Harriet flew in 1960.
Rustyboy-FL,
"That's the kind of fighter that Ozzie and Harriet flew in 1960."
I didn't know Ozzie and Harriet were fighter pilots. I thought their profession was model Mom and Dad or husband and housewife for the 1950's.
Mickey, I stand corrected.
I think Ozzie and Harriet flew attack helicopters.
Turkey is just testing air defenses before the NATO assault soon to come.
and the war machines keep turning!
Rustyboy-FL,
"Mickey, I stand corrected.
I think Ozzie and Harriet flew attack helicopters."
Funny boy!!!
The F4 fell into the ocean once it cleared land. Not much technology there.
It sounds like the Turkish F-4 may have accidentally (or intentionally) strayed into Syrian airspace and was shot down. The fact that the plane apparently crashed in Syrian territorial waters would tend to support this possibility. I am sure that the Turkish government is upset at this, but it appears as if the Syrians did not necessarily do anything wrong, although you would have expected some type of warning and/or verbal challenge from Syrian air defense before they started shooting at the plane. To simply shoot down a plane without any warning or challenge would be very unusual unless the two nations were at war with each other.
Syria: We're sorry we're sorry!
Turkey: Oops, my bad...
Syria: We're sorry we're sorry anyway!
Turkey: You better be...
@RalphH Ummm...how did this suddenly become Israel's fault? This is Syria's own doing: Syrians killing Syrians. And if you ask me (and no one did), it couldn't be happening to a better bunch of s*&theads.
Derek, MIG 21? might as well say Sturmovich or maybe P-40 good luck with that @!$%#
I can hear the conversation now.. " Yes Mr. Ambassador, how many planes would you like to purchase from the USA? What do you mean just 5? Have you checked out what an old F-4 might perform like over your neighbors, such as Syria? Call me again in the morning and we will discuss our humanitarian contribution to your wonderful country."
cha-ching!!!!!
"Hello, is this the fractalized Syrian military? Yes... we have SUCH a deal for you. Have you heard about the new anti aircraft missiles we have in stock? We would really appreciate your cooperation in that little conflict you are having over there. Did I mention our easy payment plan?"
Who said jews were stupid? LOL
Why not, Sir Bart?
The Lebanese parliament has almost 10% Hesb'Allah members.
Lebanon is a wholly-own subsidiary of Iran/Syria Corporation, in the Bekka Valley since 1976.
That didn't fly with Korean Air 007 and it won't fly now.
Syria cannot claim that this was a 'rebel aircraft'. They knew what it was and they didn't want it around.
You have to give warning before shooting down a plane that's 'violating airspace'.
Oh boo hoo. If Syria shot down a Turkish war plane, then Turkey should shoot down a Syrian war plane.
Turks didnt do a damn thing to the israelis when they attacked their ship and killed 9 of their activlst.They shouldent do a damn thing to Syria.
...........You have to give warning before shooting down a plane that's 'violating airspace'.....
This apparently was not the case when US shot down Iran Air flight 655, a civilian airliner, on 3 July 1988 without any warning when the plane was in the international air space. All 290 on board, including 66 children, were perished. Despite this, the US has never admitted responsibility, nor apologized to Iran.
There it goes again, martin bart with his usual mumbo jumbo spewing hatred and anti-arab rhetoric equating arab leaders to nazi psychopath.
Henrich: You are incorrect. The US Navy issued repeated warnings to that airliner. The Iranians were not monitoring the international frequencies. And the US did pay compensation to the victims families.
Turkey is going into Iraq, now they are getting involved in Syria ? Maybe they need to get newer planes - the F4 is 50 years old!
Rule of Nines,
"the F4 is 50 years old!"
And flies like a brick from what I've heard.
I'm no authority, but from what I've understood from friends in the AF, the F4 has a drag to flight ratio of six to one. Without the engine, every foot it flies forward --- it loses six feet of altitude.... A flying brick... yes!
Yes... a brick can fly, if has two J79 jet engines.
LOL...I think the F-4 was developed just to test whether or not it's only the bumble bee can violate the laws of aerodynamics. Flying brick indeed.
Ol_Doc,
"Flying brick indeed."
I knew some F-4 pilots when I was in the Air Force, and that's just what they called it, a flying brick.
These are not old Phantoms. They have all the new equipment.
sammy22,
"These are not old Phantoms. They have all the new equipment."
Yes, but the same old aerodynamics unless they have redesigned the entire fuselage, which I doubt.
So sell them some newer plans bud!!!
The US just confirmed that they had CIA assets on the ground, "coordinating" the supply (but NOT supplying them) of arms to various rebel factions in Syria. A few months before the Libian debacle, CIA and MI5 were "coordinating" the same way.
What's the bet that no one from the US (Clinton, McCain, Peneta or the BIG Chief) is willing to go to Libya today for a photo op.
It would be great for one of them to go back there and learn what they did right in their "coordination" efforts that made it into such an explosive success (over 100 civilians killed in civil war just last week!). Perhaps they can then replicate the same success in Syria? After all, isn't that the objective - to create another Libya?
Just my observation!
what's your point rule of nines? the b52 has been in service since 1952..and its still going strong...a lot of aircraft can be maintained and upgraded to last well beyond what you think is old...here's .25 cents--go buy yourself a clue.
B-52? Check out the DC-3/C-47 History also DC-2/C-46 even older, F4K/M flown by RAF/RN also by FRG in 1970s-80s with Rolls-Royce engines was better bird, waaay less smoke more power
Oh, now this could get really nasty!
The Turks have been kind of hesitant in getting involved but have not been very happy about what is going on in Syria. They've been having to deal with a lot of displaced refugees and then there's the little thing about the large amount of ethnic Turks in Syria. This could just be the straw that breaks the camel's back and give the Turks justification to go midevil on Syria. That would be very very bad for the Syrians plus it would put the Turks right on Iran's doorstep which I'm sure they wouldn't like very much as well.
Sultan Erdogan is going to need to send another flotilla to Gaza after this.
So true - he will need to blame Israel for this!
Everybody "likes" to blame Israel... even when Israel helped the Christian Maronites in Lebanon, everybody, (specially the press) choose to blame the Jews (Aka: Israelians).
I want to see if "Sultan Erdogan" will have the "balls" to really confront Assad as he did with Israel. This is quite different from a flotilla trying to confront the ligitime actions (as stated by the UN). This is an act of war.
(BTW: When the Turkish army closed the waters around Chipre... no "flotilla" or a like was let in. So, Israel is doing exactly the same around Gaza. The (big) difference is that the Greeks and Chiprotians didn't send rockets, missiles and terrorists against the turkish people, but the Gazans do against the Israelians.)
Right Geronimous, when Israel helped the Christian Maronites, getting involved in a conflict that wasn't theirs, and helping the Christian Maronites commit the massacres of Sabra and Chatila where more than 800 palestinian civilians were slaughtered, the world condemned Israel.
Yep that's right, when you help someone perform a massacre, you get condemned, crazy huh ?
As for Gaza, when your waterways and airspace are still controlled, you're not free. Israel never left Gaza in that regard, and in addition, Israel still occupies the West Bank and East Jerusalem, building settlements that are totally illegal according to international law (no country recognizes their legitimacy, not even the US), so why should the palestinians stop fighting ?
Germ,
get your facts together.. isreali "legitimite' blockade? What is legit? isreal is the occupier and they will be kicked out of the occupied land.
You must be an isreali dork.
CHIPROTIANS? WTF are CHIPROTIANS? are you trying to say CYPRIOTS? or maybe CHIPOTLES?
First of all, the blocade of Gaza was a response to the rocket attacks, defending yourself when you are attacked is always legitimate.
Second, Israel did not need to help Arabs massacre each other, they do it just fine on their own.
Thrid, settlements in the west bank will become legitimate when there is a border recognized by both sides (Palestinians are welcome to start negotiating htose borders any time), until then they are perfectly legitimate.
Forth, there is a paradox in the very claim that Israel "occupies" East Jerusalem, Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, it's no more possible for Israel to occupy it than for French to occupy Paris.
As for the flotilla, Turks wanted to use it to turn Nato against Israel. When it did not work, they backed away, they were not stupid enough to think that they can take on Israel on their own. Taht also suggests that they are not stupid enough to get into that mess in Syria. No one else want to get their hands dirty, so why shoud they?
Yesterday we hear about Turkey supplying arms to the Syrian rebels, and today the possibility of Syria shooting down a Turkish fighter. Killing civilians is one thing, but antagonizing another Islamic country that is part of NATO and has eyes towards being the dominate Muslim nation in the region is another matter altogether. Watch for Assad to fall all over himself trying to apologize for this one if it turns out the plane was shot down. Turkey has no problem going into Iraq after Kurdish rebels, so...
My guess is Assad will not apologize because the Turks might have been doing recon for the dastardly Americans.
They're already falling all over themselves apologizing.... Do you actually post anything intelligent or are you just a blithering idiot all of the time?
Read more news than just the ones from Western countries (especially US or British ones).
It could be a Russian missile too. Russian navy is there. Russia openly said "don't touch Syria or else". Turks better be careful because they don't have enough missiles to stop Russian tanks if they decide to come in.
What an incredibly stupid comment
LOL! Yes the US hires nothing but the best when it comes to intelligence gathering from the air, like a turkish F-4...so cutting edge.
sammy22, just HOW FAR up your ARSE do you have your HEAD? do you Really think Putin is DUMB enough to launch an invasion of a NATO country? I dont even want to be around for THAT little fricassee!!! NO ONE has heard of AURORA?
B. Chester makes a very good point about the inadvisability of invading a NATO country. Not too sure about the Aurora comment, though.
I guess the big question is where was the aircraft at the time it was fired upon? Syrian SAMS can range well outside Syrian territorial waters; even if the wreckage was inside Syrian waters (as Syria claims), it may not have been flying there when hit
Probably not your average Phantom. The Turkish fleet was upgraded by Israel, with a new radar suite and ECM gear and better fire control for ground support operations. In short, rather more capable than any F4 that ever flew for the US. Not impervious to SAMs, obviously. It does make one wonder if there was a malfunction that either contributed to the intrusion (nav system) or self defense (ECM suite).
Turkey is no joke..
Shooting a turkish plane down is like shooting a russian jet down. They don't play. I am pretty sure there will be more coming out of this one. Get ready folks... this war could be the mother of all wars.. stay tuned..
What can they do? Russia is waiting north of the border, Turkey cannot fight on two fronts. If Russia comes in, Turkey will end up using Nato nukes to stop them. It can spiral out of control easily. It is better for Turkey to wait it out unless US (from Iraq?) and Israel joins in a coordinated attack. Even then it will be hard to send the Turkish soldier against Syria because they won't think there is a problem worth fighting for.
Russia won't launch an invasion of a NATO country to protect Syria. Get over yourself. They may provide intelligence and weaponry but crossing the Turkish border would bring in the full support of NATO and Putin is nobody's fool: the Russian military is a mere shadow of the once-mighty Soviet war machine and they would find it tough going against the Turks alone, much less a combined effort by NATO.
Hope the Turkish will give a good and definitive punch in the nose to Assad criminals.
They certainly have the "tools" to do that... and without the intervention of the western world.
Then I want to see what Russia, China and Iran have to say...
Muslims have been "educated" to abhor and deeply hate the whole world. So, let the muslims try solve their own Sunnies, Salaphies, Schiites... whatever, fightings (since the very moment their prophet Mohammed died!) without external interventions.
In the meantime, show a little bit of humanity concern giving masive food and medical help to the people on the ground.
Yes, let's face it: we (the whole world) are (is) already immerse in a WW3... It's the western world principles and democratic culture versus the islamic fundamentalist conception of a totalitarian culture and their way of govern their own people (and kill them) and live & deal with "others" (aka: enemies)...
Russia, China and Iran rub their hands with an immense satisfacion!
Really, "muslims have been educated to abhor and deeply hate the whole world" ?
Like, in the way they let christians and jews live among them for centuries unharmed while Europe was slaughtering at the stake anyone who wasn't a "good christian" ?
You didn't go further than a high school diploma have you ?
.......Hope the Turkish will give a good and definitive punch in the nose to Assad criminals........
This should be rephrased as "Hope the Turkist will give a good and definitve punch in the nose of nittyahoo criminal for murdering Turks among the floatilla".
So does this incident fall under NATO's, an attack on one is an attack on all, rule?
Good question indeed!
An inconvenient question too.
Usually good questions are most inconvinient for politics... ;-)
No, it happened in Syrian waters. Turkey cannot claim it was attacked.
NATO will respond only if Turkey makes a formal complaint and can justify its position. This is not the first time Syria has attacked Turkish interests: there has also been Syrian artillery attacks on Turkish soil that resulted in the deaths of Turkish civilians. If a pattern of Syrian aggression against Turkey can be established, NATO would be obligated to support Turkey.
And, no, Sammy. Russia won't invade Turkey over Syria.
My best guess is that Turks were reluctant to get into syria mess..
Sooooo, it could be a covert operation by US to shoot the plane and get turks to believe syria did it...
Then the turks will be motivated to do the dirty work US does not wnat to do...Supplying arms to rebels and eventually disposing Esad..
Sounds like a plan to me!
Abdallah Abdallah,
"Sounds like a plan to me!"
Or paranoia.
This is an islamic problem: let them resolve this by themselves. People in islamic countries are asking for democracy... I doubt they understand the meanings.
Saddly, after years of totalitarisms, most of them do not understand or even know what "democracy" implies. So, they give themselves "elections" and then the uneducated, naive majority votes for fundamentalist-manipulative Islamic parties...
So, what you are saying is... US troops took over the Syrian Def. System... Shot down a Turkish Fighter... And got out without anyone noticing?
Abdallah Abdallah
Really? Just sounds like another whackadoodle conspiracy theory to me. Tin-foil helmet too tight?
Sooooo, it could be a covert operation by US to shoot the plane and get turks to believe syria did it...
Yeah and 9/11 was an inside job--blah blah blah.
And we'll finish with blaming Israel.
/hands tin foil
Shot down a Turkish Fighter... And got out without anyone noticing?
Wow I knew we were elite but that's like video game elite!
Oh come on, we wouldn't try to trick anyone into going to WMD. Oops, meant to say "war".
There's no such thing as NWO, either - just ask Angela Merkel!
It is not enough to anger the Turks and risk a war with Russia. They lost planes in cyprus in 60s and it took them 10 years to go in.
Conspiracy theories erupt at the convergence of witless paranoia and blithering idiocy. That explains why only certain people are so eager to believe in them...
If the plane ends up being outside of Syrian airspace when it was down and Turkey decides to respond I don't think Russia, China and Iran will be very happy with Syria. This could be something similar to how Russia setup Georgia, they already had a large amount of troops across the border in that case for a "military exercise" in this case it's due to the refugees and tensions in Syria. The South Ossentian rebels lobbed a few shells at the Georgian Troops, Georgia responded and killed some Russian troops and Russia stormed across the border.
@IndyBearFan88
That could well indeed be what happens. I doubt it would take much of a incursion by Turkey's military to push Assad into exile. He'll panic and run as soon as the troops cross and his regular forces in the north get smashed to bits. He can't afford to fight off Turkey's regular army and rebel forces at the same time.
The Russians aren't going to let that happen manning the upgraded S-300s. The US is to use to fighting 19th Century peasants.
The Turks wouldn't need the US or anyone else to help them crush Syria if they really wanted to. To think otherwise is delusional...
Russia will attack Turkey if Turkey attacks Syria. So no wars, no worries. But sell your stocks anyway. You don't want to be long when the 3rd world war starts.
Sammy is living in a dimly lit fantasy world if thinks Putin's Russia is so stupid as to attack a NATO country in defense of a crumbling third-world country. Pull yourself together.
I hope the Turks roll right into Damascus and tweak Assad's big nose.
You forget the Syrians can and will fight a foreign invader. Syria is not the bankrupt destitute Iraq the US embargoed for 11 years before the Bush Cabal invaded the defenseless country and caused a criminal humanitarian catastrophe that continues to this day. I hope the Syrians throw out the US gangbangers.
I'm sure Turkey is quaking in their boots thinking about facing the Syrian military... Also, seeing how Syria was part of the Ottoman Empire for 400 years until WW1, they might have a little more support than you would think as there are 750,000-1,500,000 "Turkmen" still living in, what is today, the Northern part of Syria.
The Ottoman Empire is irrelevant to modern Syria.
It's relevant due to the fact, as I stated before but ur too big of an idiot to comprehend apparently, 750,000-1,500,000 ethnic Turks live in Northern Syria.
Oh the namecalling shows you to be a juvenile. The US is behind the "rebellion" as it was Libya.
How about Turkey? The Ottoman Empire broke up after WWI.
And your "logic" shows you to be uninformed. Do you honestly believe that the poorly trained Syrian "Army" (Yes, poorly trained just like the Iraqis were) are a match for Turkish Armed Forces? Screw the equipment, it's the person and their skill that makes tank, APC, plane, weapon lethal.
I hope the Turks roll right into tel aviv and tweak nittyahoo's big nose for murdering 9 Turk peace activists during the floatilla raid.
Turkey along with the US , Saudia , Qatar and the British and even Israel , Training these Alqaedfa thugs in Syria , Turkey been Itching to go into Syria , The only thing stopping them is Russia,China and Iran , You all sitting here blaming the Syrians for every thing , I wonder what each of you will do , If you had these thugs in your neighbor hood killing and raping . You will do the same thing Assad doing . You all turning the blind side or the deaf side or what ever , Our own Intel. Confirmed Alqaeda in Syria , And NOW we hear the CIA arming these rebels , IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THAT PICTURE ??? OR WE JUST DOING LIKE THE WMD STORY , WE JUST WAR MONGER PEOPLE , NONE OF YOU LOOKING FOR THE TRUTH. SYRIA TOOK IN A MILLION REFUGEES FROM IRAQ , I DID NOT SEE ANY OF YOU RUSHING FOR HELP , AND MOST OF THEM WERE CHRISTIANS , BUT BOY , YOU SEND BILLIONS TO THE POOR JEWS SO THEY CAN ATTACK EVERY BODY IN THAT REGION . IF I WAS YOU , I WOULD NOT CALL MYSELF CHRISTIANS . HYPOCRITES.
Awww... Someone's sad that another one of their boys might be going down soon. The Syrians are falling over themselves apologizing, it'll be funny if the Turks tell them to stick it and roll across the border. Russia, Syria, and Iran can't do anything to help Syria if Turkey would decide to move in except whine and cry about it. If it was a setup, the Syrians fell for it - I don't think anyone could ever accuse them of being the sharpest tools in the shed.
you claims are quite bogus starting with the first sentence that the U.S. is training al qaeda, actually U.S. is killing al qaeda not training them. And the ones killing raping and torturing children to death is Assad's forces trying to follow Assad's orders to commit genocide against citizens seeking their freedom and the right to elect the leader of "their" choice instead of the leader oppressing them and electing himself decade after decade. In final, it was Assad helping al qaeda in killing american troops during the iraq war.
you are just another thug supporting a mass murdering dictator trying to squash freedom by any means even genocide
John the US is financing the Syrian "rebels"- whoever they are- and al-queda- if they really exist- supports the "rebels". The US killed 30,000 Iraqis in 2003, and Americans so concerned with Syria have said nothing for 10 years about the murdered Iraqis.
IndyBearFan88,
"The Syrians are falling over themselves apologizing, it'll be funny if the Turks tell them to stick it and roll across the border"
And they could do that, too. Turkey has the largest ground forces in NATO.
Don't hold your breath, it will be months before Turkey can mass enough troops on the border. And by then we will be hearing Russia massing troops on Georgian border preparing to steam roll it on their way to Turkey. We are looking at next spring earliest. I am not sure how Turkish political leaders will convince the population to go war though. Seems like a tough sell to me.
sammy22,
"Seems like a tough sell to me."
When Turkish national pride is at stake?
What pride? They have draft. Nobody will agree to send their sons to die for capitalism. They need something like a Pearl Harbor to make them fight.
Remember that in the days of the Ottoman Empire, Turkey was the most powerful nation in the world.
Yes, but for all their might they still couldn't win the siege on Vienna.
Bomb Syria.....
HMS SORRY SEN. McCain . You want to bomb every body don't you body . Well you know you can go to Turkey and they will arm you and send right into Syria , Go fight next to your Alqaeda brothers , Just keep our troops home , They had enough lies from our politicians , Ask some of our fallen heroes families and see what they tell you HMS . If Iran and Russia cut off the gas to Turkey . They can not last 3 days . and let them go in to Syria . It wont be like they chasing these half asss armed Kurdish rebels . They might be fighting a real army then .
unlike you, Sen. McCain has a conscience and doesn't want to turn a blind eye to Assad's genocide in vain to stop citizens from winning their freedom, Assad is willing to slaughter majority of syrians in order to stay in power for his own self serving proposes
John M you know as much about what's going on as much as McCain . Assad is A Shiites Muslim . Alqaeda and the Shiites hate each other more than we hate Alqaeda . And Alqaeda in Syria killing the Christians and civilians , But like I said no use to explain things to people like you .
Sen. McCain had no conscience about killing Vietnamese civilians nor the 900,000+ Iraqis the US invasion has killed. Why is Mr. McCain the former murderous bomber pilot suddenly so concerned with Syrian civilians? It is a US financed operation using gangbanger mercenaries- NYT, RT.
Don't feed the troll, this guy is just being an idiot to get responses as evident by his previous posts on the subject. Here I can do it too...
No, we don't have any conscience about McCain killing each and every civilian that died in the Vietnam war all by himself. Which is impressive in that he killed most of them by telekinetically flying planes while tricking the Viet Cong into thinking they were keeping him as a POW. Then in Iraq, they just strapped him to the bottom of an A-10 and let him vaporize all the civilians with his eye lasers...
John M. Yes, we saw that side of Sen. McCain in regards his enthusiasm for the Iraq war - which was motivated on total nonsense and resulted in the greatest slaughter in recent history in the middle east ( no less than 250 000 dead - including many babies etc ). In the battle for Fallujah alone the estimated civilian death toll was ~6000 - and yes we did that with bombardment, white phosphorus to burn them out and so on. Something like 50% of that city had severe damage to being leveled. I have never heard McCain say a word about these civilians. We also noted it when he, approximately a year before Ghaddafi was ousted, was in fact a guest of Ghaddafi. Doing what you may ask? Basically apparently trying to persaude that character to buy more US weapons. A year later he is hell for leather into bombing him. By the way, an estimated 40 000 Libyans were killed in that little adventure - and they are still dying. It thus seems to be that he is no more than a front for our defense industry, with scant regard for civilian life - so as long as we are in some war the dumb US taxpayers are paying for the good times of good old Grandad Warbucks.
my turn,
"Assad is A Shiites Muslim"
Yes and no. Assad is an Alawite. The Alawites are not main-stream Shiites. They are a relic of the Sevener movement, a form of pre-Islamic Christian Gnosticism. While their doctrines have some things in common with the Shiites, main-stream Shiites, such as the Iranians, are mostly Twelvers. I know the distinction between Seveners and Twelvers may not make much sense to you, but it does to them, and they don't necessarily like each other that much. (see The Concise Encyclopedia of Islam, 1989, Fitzhenry and Whiteside Limited, Toronto, Canada).
Syria has chemical weapons and biological weapons. This is a proven fact. Through the inactions of NATO and the west to deal with Assad only proves this more. Turkey will not invade either. Who would send ground troops into that? I guess you can bomb them from the air and put more sanctions on them but those are never killing blows. Assad is trapped. He can't get out of this. He can't leave his last card to play and he cant use it. So what we have is a Mexican standoff.
Nagurski, I have been convinced from DAY ONE that Saddam moved the WMDs to Syria later for
safe keeping which, in my mind, is the reason that Assad does not back down. That, and Russia's
support as well.
It's true - Obama's been covering it up. Executive order.
Since Turkey is widely known to be facilitating the supply of weapons across its border to the Syrian opposition ( hardly a secret ) it would have been unwise for one of its warplanes to enter Syrian airspace - which it may have done if reports are correct and it crashed in Syrian waters. Its rather like us, as we are known to be supplying/have supplied the militias involved in the civil/narco war on our Mexico border with arms, if Mexico had anything like an anti aircraft defense system I would not cruise into their airspace in a suspicious aircraft. Actions have consequences, and this may be one of those events.
Revalations ? They can't HEAR YOU ! No really ! Uhuh. Syria will be the mid east focal point if they can manage to fight back against the axis of wars. United they stand ! The war drum beat is getting louder thump thump thump. Sooo much for the NWO and globalization we can put it on hold till after the war. What kind of war will 2012 bring ? 2013 is an unlucky number. Happiness is a warm gun moma yes it is...maybe some day it the world will change..
I hope Syria did shoot down the Turkey fighter jet-this could pull Turkey into taking care of Syria-the jet was a 1970's fighter jet and is old but a hell of a jet,let hope turkey gets really pissed off and does something about it.