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Subscribe to RSSShahzad Akbar, an anti-drone lawyer in Islamabad, talks about his view of America and its policies.
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan – When attorney Shahzad Akbar began filing lawsuits against the Pakistan government on behalf of drone strike victims in 2010, some of his close friends started calling him "Taliban lawyer."
"But now, two years later, they don't do that anymore," he said.
In many ways the effects of the nearly nine-year U.S. program of targeted drone missile strikes in Pakistan were largely hidden from the rest of the world for many years. The strikes have been conducted in Pakistan's rugged and remote tribal region bordering Afghanistan – an area nearly impossible for outsiders to visit and from which it is incredibly difficult to extract reliable and timely information.
But Akbar's work through his Foundation for Fundamental Rights has raised awareness of the strikes among the general Pakistani population – at the same time anti-American sentiment from a failing alliance with the U.S. is on the rise. He said his mission is to seek justice on behalf of innocent civilians killed in the drone attacks.
"The situation on the ground is not what the U.S. government says, that they're only targeting militants," said Akbar. "The situation on the ground is that a huge number of civilians are being killed."
Part of the problem, according to Akbar, is that until recently, most Pakistanis didn't know or didn't care about the drone strikes. But public political anger, denouncing the strikes as a violation of Pakistan's sovereignty, has helped draw attention to the issue over the last few years.
Today, drones have become a political touchstone, regularly decried as part of politician's campaign speeches, prominently featured in fiery protest rallies, and sitting squarely at the center of a diplomatic war of words between the U.S. and Pakistan.
Collateral damage
Akbar's legal challenges come as a recent poll shows considerable opposition in countries around the world to the U.S. drone campaign. The Pew Research Center study found that more than half of those polled in 17 of 20 countries disapprove of the use of drone strikes to target extremists. However, Americans see things very differently and largely support their use, with only 38 percent disapproving.
Though public perception may help him to gain traction, Akbar said his cases are based on the evidence he's gathering from strike locations in coordination with communities in North Waziristan, the tribal agency in which the overwhelming majority of strikes have occurred. That cache of evidence includes everything from family testimonies and images of the identifiable bodies and body parts recovered from the attack sites, to actual fragments of the Hellfire missiles fired from the remotely-piloted drones.
"I believe in very simple principles that were taught to us by the West," said Akbar. "That everyone is presumed innocent unless proven guilty. So anyone who is killed in drone strikes, unless and until his guilt is established in some independent forum – that person is innocent."
Noor Behram, a journalist in North Waziristan, Pakistan, describes his views of the United States.
According to the London-based Bureau of Investigative Journalism, a not-for-profit organization basing its study on reports from government officials, media reports, and academic sources, anywhere between 2,486 and 3,188 people have been killed in 332 U.S. drones strikes inside Pakistan since 2004. The fact that the report is based on wide-ranging and conflicting reports, speaks to the difficulty of establishing hard facts in this part of the world. Similarly, the same report also estimated that the number of civilians killed in those strikes ranges from 482 to 832.
According to another study done by the New America Foundation, a non-profit public policy institute in Washington, D.C., a total of 43 men identified as "militant leaders" were killed in those strikes.
A major point of controversy is who counts as a “civilian” versus a “combatant.” The Obama administration defines all military-age males in a strike zone as “combatants,” unless there is explicit posthumous evidence proving them innocent, according to a report in the New York Times.
Pakistanis who live in those strike zones dispute that definition, and claim innocent women and children are being killed as well. But the administration’s broad definition does help explain how they could reach a very low, civilian casualty count as a result of drone attacks.
U.S. officials, who – for the first time – publicly admitted using drones in April of this year, have said the strikes are "targeted...against specific al-Qaida terrorists" and are carried out "in full accordance with the law, and in order to prevent terrorist attacks on the United States and save American lives."
But Akbar argues that the identities of many killed are unknown, that nearby children are often killed by flying shrapnel, and that any "collateral damage" deaths are simply impossible to justify – even when a "high-value" terrorist is killed as a result.
"The problem is that no one cares if ‘nobody’ is killed, and by ‘nobody,’ I mean a person who is nobody. A person who is probably just living in that area, has no money, no education, no representation," said Akbar. "The point here is that if we are successful in killing one or two people who we really want to kill, and in order to do that we kill 40 people – who cares? And this is a sad kind of attitude we have from the American government and unfortunately from my own government."
‘Can’t help but be angry…’
In order to represent the families of civilian drone strikes victims in court, Akbar first had to win their trust, which has been an uphill battle in communities that see themselves are separate and distinct from the rest of country. Many in the targeted areas are under-represented and under-funded on the national level, and feel more kinship to their fellow ethnic tribesmen across the border in Afghanistan than with the Pakistani population east of their northwest territory.
"When we started working in Waziristan in 2010, that was the seventh year of the drone strikes," said Akbar. "People had no trust in their own countrymen. They said, ‘You have not looked after us, you haven't really cared what was happening here, so why would we now talk to you and give you evidence of what's really happening here?’"
NBC News speaks with citizens from around the globe, asking the question, 'What Does America Mean to You?'
So Akbar partnered with Noor Behram, a soft-spoken journalist and father of six, born and raised in North Waziristan, who had witnessed and documented multiple drone strikes in his own area, and was wondering why no one in the rest of the world seemed to care.
"When you live in an area where there is war, where there is suffering, where there are drone attacks, where there's not proper reporting about what's going on…. Even if you're a professional, you can't help but become angry at what you see,” said Behram. “You start to wonder how you can take the voices you hear and carry them to the rest of the world."
Behram established a notification system based on walkie-talkies and a trusted network of sources across the region where curfews and rough terrain can make it difficult to travel quickly from one area to another. When the attacks occur nearby, as many do to his home in Miramshah, he says he is often the first one with a camera at the site. Entire buildings are reduced to rubble heaps. Residual fires burn in nearby homes or businesses. Crowds gather to dig through the wreckage for survivors and gather body parts.
The frequency with which the strikes are carried out, Behram said, has his community on edge.
"People are very worried, very tense all the time," he said. "When the missile is fired from the plane, there is a loud explosion. When it hits the ground, it makes a terrifying noise. The people below, they just start running. Pieces of missile, they fly everywhere, very far, into other people's houses."
Despite experiencing strikes so close to his home that he and his family have been forced to flee in the middle of the night, Behram said he harbors no anger towards the American people – it's their policies, he says, that should be reviewed.
"I think, even if they said, 'we've killed 100 terrorists,' and just one child was also killed…If you, at that time, you see that child's body, you talk to his mother and father – I think, for me, this is a very serious thing,” he said. “That one child, sitting in his house, could be killed like this.”
Behram patiently documents what he sees, sometimes spending hours with reluctant family members to convince them to share their testimony for the lawsuits being filed.
"I tell them there are people who want to help you. If you want help, then I can talk to them for you," Behram said. "Because if you don't talk to them or let them help you, I don't know what will happen next."
‘I want to give them their rights’
Working together, Akbar and Behram have gathered evidence for 13 petitions filed in Islamabad and Peshawar courts, most of which are filed against the government of Pakistan. In total, the lawsuits represent 71 families who have lost 100 family members in U.S. drone strikes in Pakistan.
Despite the fact that he can only legally file suit within Pakistan, Akbar said three of the cases do involve criminal litigation against current and former U.S. officials, including an alleged former CIA station chief and a former CIA legal counsel. But taking on a U.S. administration loathe to even acknowledge the classified program, much less engage legally on the matter, means that those lawsuits are largely intended to send a message at this stage – that he, and the people he represents, hold both Pakistani and U.S. officials responsible for the deaths of their family members.
"I want justice for these people so they feel that they're part of the system," said Behram. "Because on the one side we ask them to behave and fall in line….and on the other side, we don't give them any rights. I want to give them their rights."
This story is part of a series by msnbc.com and NBC News "What the World Thinks of US". The series aims to check the pulse on current perceptions of America's global stature during the election year and ahead of our annual Independence Day. Share your thoughts about this story and our series on Twitter using #AmericaMeans
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Leave a Comment:
theboys and big dawg , you said it right both of you , so i can not say more
Jessica , your a traitor to our country , with your words of drones from another country flying over the U.S.A. and killing us. are you even from our country? and our military men and women who fought and died over there and the ones still fighting for us. if you are from here you are a shame to all of us. if you were my sister , i would not claim you.
Well, Akbar ... the problem with your logic is, we are talking about fighting and killing combatants, not a civilian criminal. These terrorists are waging war with America. When you are on the field of battle, you don't stop and hold a "trial" to determine some terrist commander's guilt or innocence. You target him and you kill him.
Out of the 3,000 fatalities from WTC II, a vast majority were 'innocent'.
And oh yeah, there were more than 3,000 were targeted.
Total carrying capacity of both towers, during a normal work day is 40,000 - 50,000.
So do you still think those Pakis and Saudis are so blameless & innocent when it comes to mass-murder ?
Since pay-back traditionally has been 10 or 20 to 1, I think we owe somebody some of the same (w/ interest accrued).
I Agree, but we do not go out looking for innocent people to get hurt or killed . I bet not a word was said from these people about the people that died in the world trade center !!!
Drones will soon be (if not already)in the neighborhoods of many US cities. Apparently they are to keep citizens safe from the bad guys. This is just another example of the governments invasion of our privacy. Drones wont keep us safer, but will allow law enforcement and government to gain information about us that they have no business in knowing.
You got something to hide ?
Drones aren't any different than helicopters or speeding cameras; just a more efficient deployment of resources.
As for being intrusive, the most heavily surveillanced it's still the city of London, England, not the U.S.
So quit being such a big cry-baby, you big cry-baby.
Pakistani = terrorist supporter
America = Communism/death to all who oppose it
Well, they’ll drone ya when you’re trying to be so good
They’ll drone ya just a-like they said they would
They’ll drone ya when you’re tryin’ to go home
Then they’ll drone ya when you’re there all alone
But I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get droned
Well, they’ll drone ya when you’re walkin’ ’long the street
They’ll drone ya when you’re tryin’ to keep your seat
They’ll drone ya when you’re walkin’ on the floor
They’ll drone ya when you’re walkin’ to the door
But I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get droned
They’ll drone ya when you’re at the breakfast table
They’ll drone ya when you are young and able
They’ll drone ya when you’re tryin’ to make a buck
They’ll drone ya and then they’ll say, “good luck”
Tell ya what, I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get droned
Well, they’ll drone you and say that it’s the end
Then they’ll drone you and then they’ll come back again
They’ll drone you when you’re riding in your car
They’ll drone you when you’re playing your guitar
Yes, but I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get droned
For many Americans Pakistan means lying crook who would take our aid while giving our enemy protection and support.
Okay. It's sad that non-combatants die in these attacks. It's sad that it has to be like this. My ancestors went through this. BUT, this is the 21st Century. And there's certain things that are very, very different. If an individual, or group, attack innocent civilians in another Country, & then come to hide amongst another group of people - and are welcomed, & given shelter - when a retaliation comes, those very same people become targets. People of Pakistan: STOP LETTING THESE WORLD PESTILANTS LIVE AMONGST YOU. Stop trying to hide them. They've commited crimes against the world. - NOT just the USA. It wasn't all US citizens killed at the WTC. These people were given sanctuary in Pakistan. Where did they find Bin Laden? Who was protecting him? - sammy22: You're suffering from cranial/rectal inversion. If a person comes into your home, kills your family. Kills your neighbors, etc. It sounds like you're saying because your 3d cousin was involved in a rape years ago, that justifies it. What a tool!
For Pakistanis the USA means a place to make your wealth. Land of the free, to have a dream that comes true. For the Taliban, kill them all.
Hope the Afghan gets some guts and invade and kill the Taliban in their beds.
Allah Arbar
I wish the media would stop using the name America. America is not America. it is a corporate/communism merging that has it's own agenda. IT DOES NOT REPRESENT THE PEOPLE. We will fight them don't worry. Hey NSA... f u c k y o u.
Ironically I think I have come to realize that it isn't the form of government that matters so much as it is the people or person running that government. A great king or even dictator can run a country, improve it and end up loved, same with a elected official. But a bad king, or dictator can ruin it just as easily as bad politicans can. The type of government simply gives less extremes in short terms. However over long terms those same extremes can occur more slowly, and as it is more slowly to occur, it is also harder to notice, and even much more difficult to overcome. With a dictator or monarch you have one target to eliminate, with a democracy, council, or any large ruling body there are many to eliminate to change the leadership.
Those that think what our country is now is great must not realize what we came from, and what the ideal behind it was. It was not a country based upon the government taxing everything and then "providing" everything back with a percentage of what they took in the form of taxes in the first place. If you give 100 dollars to someone, they then pay themselves, and then hire someone to do something for you with the money you gave them to begin with can you truly call it free? You end up losing more than it would have cost you to hire the person to begin with since you now have to also pay the one hiring them to do it for you.
Medicare, Social Security, Welfare, Healthcare, are none free. In the simplest form of logic, free is impossible. If a man grows apples and gives you an apple, that apple isnt free. The man that gave it to you paid for it first with time and seed if nothing else. The problem with the government doing all these things is that the larger the government, the more taxes needed to run it. Then we also have to pay for the same service we would have paid for anyway. As it grows we also have to pay for someone to "oversee" it to make sure it is being done right. And we have to hire more people to take up the taxes to pay for it all. So that 100 dollars you started with ends up being divided multiple ways and you end up getting a $5.00 dollar service for 100 dollars.
To add to it, our government has not show us successfully that it can manage any of the existing systems it has put in place and now we are adding healthcare to it. I want healthcare for everyone, it is great, but until we have better than simple men who inevitably will become or are corrupt running it, we will never get what we pay for in taxes back. I have seen with my own eyes canadian tours coming to america for healthcare when theirs is free. When I asked one of the people he told me he was given 6 to 12 months to live and 12 to 18 months to get treatment. That is what we can expect if ours works as well as canada's. And theirs is so far a much better example than most. Also we are not Canadians. They seem to be less dramatic than we are as a general rule. We americans are very passionate. Sometimes that is good, sometimes bad, but we cannot expect us to act with the reserve that I have typically seen in Canadians. Also we are ten times as many. Hopefully that works in our favor, not against us.
Also I dont like Obama as president. But I sure wish people would either like or dislike his policies for what is right or wrong with them. His color doesnt make him better or worse. And since I cant read his mind, neither does his personal preferences. What he is doing to this country is destroying what we were founded on and that is why I dont like him (as president, not personally). I dont know with any certainty that he is christian or muslim, or even from mars and actually has green skin. So lets stick to basing our opinions on his policies which is the only decent way to be.
When I think of Pakistan I think of it as a harbor for terrorists. I think of it as a corrupt nation that refuses to put it's own house in order. If Pakistan would take care of these people we wouldn't need to. The middle east is a mess. It will continue to be a mess. We need to develop alternative energy sources and become less dependent on the middle east. We need to get out of there and let the chips fall. It's going to be ugly. It happened to Viet Nam, Cambodia and Laos. We are now trading qith these countries. They need to determine thier own destinies. We've got too many problems at home that need to be fixed.
Ask any American to give up just one child in order to kill 10 terrorists, how many would agree to it?
Secondly, stupid Indians and Hindus, get a life, stop pretending to be American, your hate posts have a nasty smell of its own, no one can hate like an Indian.......go to your Hare Krishna BS machods.
call me when the hare krishna indians pretending to be american have left the board......
Pfff...drones? I've been advocating for years that we just carpet bomb the whole middle east region and have done with it.
The US only needs to stop preventing India from dealing with Pakistan. If the US stop buying India off. Pakistan would have it neighbor clean there back yard up
Everyone knows why the US is in the middle east including Saudi Arabia. Is OIL the US could care less about peace in the middle east. the US must keep putting prop up governments to trade oil with. if you are a US citizen you know that is the truth. The US cares about money. that why we put in God we trust on our dollar bill. that is our God
Go ahead - call Bush a war monger ~ then reread this and explain how Obama is not a bigger war monger - Obama's administratoin has killed more foreign nationals outside of declared war zones than all other president combined. Tell me again how Obama is better for the country and American foreign image?
The Obama administration defines all military-age males in a strike zone as “combatants,” unless there is explicit posthumous evidence proving them innocent, according to a report in the New York Times.
Really? How about this:
PAKISTAN = HAVEN FOR TERRORISTS & THUGS
And mind you - this is coming from a Progressive Liberal.