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Subscribe to RSSThe Salvation Army Australia is apologizing for an official’s comments suggesting that the charitable Christian organization believes homosexuals should be put to death.
Maj. Andrew Craibe, media relations director for Salvation Army Australia Southern Territory, found himself in the middle of a public-relations firestorm for comments he made on a gay-oriented Australian radio show last week.
Appearing on the “Salt and Pepper” radio program, Craibe was asked about the Salvation Army’s position on homosexuality and a section in its “Handbook of Doctrine” that cites a Biblical passage -- Romans 1:18-32 -- containing a condemnation of homosexuality. The passage mentions that in God’s eyes, “those who practice such things are deserving of death.”
One of the radio hosts, Serena Ryan, expressed concern over the passage and asked, “How do you respond to that as part of your doctrine?”
Craibe responded: “Well, that’s a part of our belief system. We have an alignment to the Scriptures that that’s our belief.”
Later, Ryan again pressed Craibe on the issue “Honestly, Andrew, tell me, as a human being, how can you qualify that?”
Craibe replied: “Well, I qualify by way of, that’s where my belief system is structured, you know? It’s what it comes down to, that salvation story, and that we can be redeemed from that. That’s my belief.”
On Saturday, two days after the interview, Salvation Army Australia issued a statement seeking to clarify its stance on gays and lesbians.
“This is a misunderstanding of the text referred to. The Scripture in question, viewed in its broader context, is not referring to physical death, nor is it specifically targeted at homosexual behavior. The author is arguing that no human being is without sin, all sin leads to spiritual death (separation from God), and all people therefore need a Saviour,” the statement said.
“The Salvation Army acknowledges that the response in the interview has led to a serious misunderstanding of our teaching and that clarification should have been given during the interview.”
The statement added: “The Salvation Army sincerely apologises to all members of the GLBT community and to all our clients, employees, volunteers and those who are part of our faith communities for the offence caused by this miscommunication.”
The Salvation Army bills itself as one of the world’s largest Christian social welfare organizations, with more than 1.65 million members working in at least 123 countries.
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The good news is that they oppose homosexuality.
Sad news in fact.
They do so many good things, however as they appear to be at odds with their of support gay people my family and I feel at odds donating our time and money to the Salvation Army.
nad
Opposing homosexuality is about as rational as opposing someone based on their height. Homosexuality is not a matter of choice. The opposers are the ones with the problem and they should be working very hard to get over it.
A belief system leading to judgement is against the teachings of Christ.
Everybody is always so sure that they know what is on God's mind, including the Salvation Army.
Me? The supreme ruler of the universe never tells me anything. But why would I expect him to? He has a universe to run, and it's in damn poor shape.
dman...re universe being in "damn poor shape"
your view of the universe depends upon whether cockroaches are meant to inherit the earth ...
seems to me "the plan" is working perfectly for cockroaches!
Who would Jesus hate or believe should be killed?
The truth is we have no idea WHAT the original text said. It was written about 2000 years ago, got copied, recopied, copied from memory, re-recopied transtlated from Aramaic to Greek to Latin to Old English to Less Old English to Newish English and then copied a few more times. Then a bunch of men sat down and decided which books belonged in the Bible and which books didn't. Yes, the Bible is a collection of individual books, letters, songs, and poems: It's an anthology, not one single book. Besides, the verses cited by people as criteria to damn homosexuality were not written by Jesus. If you call yourself a Christian you don't keep Kosher in defiance of the Old Testiment because Jesus said he was bringing a New Testiment, and the Letters to the Romans aren't the teachings of Jesus, they are the opinions of Paul. Jesus never said a word about homosexuality. He said a lot about the dangers of greed and loving money and possesions more than loving humanity and caring for the poor and the sick, but nothing about homosexuality.
Interestingly, the few passages in the Bible that do deal with same-sex relationships only talk about men. Lesbians seem to be in the clear.
I donate to the Salvation Army because they spread the money around to various groups; i.e., alcoholics in rehab, etc.; and the director's take very small salaries compared to other charities like United Way. I think they are a good charitable organization, but THEY ARE NOT MY CHURCH! There is neither a Church nor a charitable organization that is 100% perfect, and for those criticizing I say, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
MDrn, you need to go back and actually read the passages cited--especially Rms 1:18-32, women with women. The sad thing here is that he took the bait. He allowed himself to be manipulated by a radio entertainer whose only ineterest is stirring up controversy to bump up ratings--increase listeners, increase entertainment value, get a raise. He should have turned the tables and spoken with passion and compassion for those whom he "knows" are lost. He would not have been seen as weak, nor would he have been seen as condescending, but rather as a person with conviction who earnestly wishes to serve others. Moral of the the story: Don't let a person with an agenda manipulate you. Civily stand your ground and turn the tables on them. It is possible to "hate the sin, not the sinner". People of conviction do not need to attack those they see as sinners. You don't need to be Cary Nation, hatchet in hand, smashing up saloons. One can honestly believe that homosexuality is a sin and argue against it as a lifestyle without physically or verbally attacking homosexuals. Agree to disagree. Neither is going to convince the other.
How in the hell does a guy like that become a media relations director?
Excactly .Look to your people first and see what they believe in before you contradicte their beliefs
If in fact the corrected understanding of what the bible passage means is the one S.A. espouses, they need to do a much better job teaching that to their members, so that when asked, they can explain it in these terms. How many S.A. members actually believe in the literal interpretation that the media relations director first put forth?
Why did it take two days to apologize for what the guy said? Methinks the organization didn't have a problem with it until they started getting some backlash.
They really don't disagree with his basic sentiment at all.
The simple fact is that regardless of whether the SA really thinks gays should be killed, they have a long and sorry history of profound homophobia by lobbying legislatures around the world to deny gay rights, and by trying to restrict the legal rights of their gay employees. They even lobbied against the decriminalization of sex between gays in New Zealand, and threatened to pull out of cities with non-discrimination laws like NYC.
http://www.bilerico.com/2011/11/why_you_shouldnt_donate_to_the_salvation_army_bell.php
Sounds like everyone these days.
Several years ago, the national leadership forced their San Francisco branch to backtrack on its plan to offer benefits for same-sex partners. That's when I stopped donating to them.
Very creative, belated response from the organization. I, for one, believe that the so-called media rel. director meant exactly what he said. It never ceases to amaze me that so-called christians can be so intolerant and uncharitable. Makes their entire religion a farce and a sham.
I am so tired of reading about so called" Christians" who conveniently quote the bible but only selectively!
The bible also forbids women to have short hair and to wear red dresses! Men should not have long hair.......a man is not to leave his wife ( divorce).................and the list goes on.
The God I worship is loving and caring and is not waiting for me to screw up so he can
"punish me." I do not contribute to organized religious organizations for that reason - wealthy religious affiliations feel they can moralize and interpret the bible their way.
JulianDD
You are so right ...... and the parts they like to quote are almost invariably from the Old Testament. You know, the part of the Bible with all of the hate and magic and authors that are completely unknown. For example, who wrote Genesis. Not a guy named Genesis, you can be sure. But who was he (or she) and how did he know all of that stuff about things that happened when he was not present? And just how was it that so many guys back then were living hundreds of years and fathering scores of children with dozens of different women. Interesting, but it's all good if the Good Book can be used as a reference to justify your hatred of gays, women, adulterers, etc., etc., etc.
don97524 - comment 4.2 - speaking of Genesis, one has to wonder who Adam and Eve's children married.
Don, Moses wrote the first five books of the bible.
I loved asking that question in Sunday School because it always made the teachers squirm.
Barry
It was even better growing up Catholic. The Catholic Church claims that if you are not Catholic and have been exposed to Catholicism and have not accepted the One True Faith, you will not get into Heaven. So in history class, we were always asking the nuns stuff like " But if Abraham Lincon was so good but he wasn't a Catholic, does that mean he didn't go to Heaven?" Good times.
MDrn ... a few centuries ago, they would've burned you at the stake for asking a question like that! So, I guess there's been a little progress.
"“Handbook of Doctrine” that cites a Biblical passage -- Romans 1:18-32 "
they should change their "Handbook" and get out of the stone age
It's sad @!$%# like this that causes me to never donate to this organization. There are plenty of non-hate-oriented charities that happily accept my money.
You throw out the baby with the bath water and cannot separate the wheat from the chaff. So be it. Your part of the problem and not part of the solution. Like you cannot understand that homosexuality is not normal.
Why would I donate money to a religious cult which will use my money to lobby legislatures around the world to deny my gay daughter her civil rights?
Now you use a broad brush. This is the Salvation Army. Never known to be active in politics and normaly keep a low profile compared to other churches. You need to study up on the Salvation Army. They are a different denomination of Christians. There record of humnitarian aid is outstanding. They fed me when I had no food or water and the money in my pocket was worth nothing (hurrican Rita) The comment of one person does not speak for all of the church.
Sounds like you don't know much about the group. Most recently they lobbied the Australian government to continue to ban same sex marriage. Before that they lobbied New Zealand to criminalize sex between gays.
More info here:
http://www.bilerico.com/2011/11/why_you_shouldnt_donate_to_the_salvation_army_bell.php
Normal is a subjective qualifier. It is based on a perception that differs from person to person, and therefore has no universality.
Natural is an objective qualifier, meaning "to exist in nature without human influence". And homosexuality is natural.
In addition, the bible, in its original words, mentions homosexuality ONCE...in Leviticus, using the same words to describe male-male sex as it does the eating of shellfish (unclean, modernly translated as "abomination"). It is never mentioned again and is never condemned.
Another reason why atheism is better.
I believe in what you want to do as an individual you should do who cares what the other people care as long as what you think is right,ok peeps start spewing your anger and I dont care
Political Correctness has reached Australia. The wages of sin is death. That does not only apply to homosexual behavior. Christian are no different than anyone else. We can cherry pick passages of scripture to support what we want to believe.
The proper response would have been: "That is what the word of God says, and He is the ultimate Judge. We, as Christians, stand with God. If you have an issue with God's word, take it up with God."
It's nice to have all the answers huh?
Hate to break it to you John, but God didn't write the book, people did. I'm sure they all had extensive conversations with the Big Guy, and he told them everything to write...yup, sure they did. Jesus would puke at what most of you zealots try to pass off as "God's word".
No one has all the answers but Gods word will give you many. Much more than any university.
Mark, God being God does have the power to preserve his words.
Then I guess God being God would also have the power to stop the Jerry Sanduskys and Osama Bin Ladens of the world too right? Not to mention all "his" pedophile priests and crooked adulterer preachers. But he didn't. Nice "God" you've got there.
yeah big jim, especially for those who have all the answers already. your one size fits all answers doesn't cut it in a world that is diverse beyond your imagination.
In other words: "I don't hate fags, it's my imaginary friend in the sky who hates fags."
You guys need to learn a little Christian theology. God loves all but hate sin. Loves us enough to give us free will. Loves us enough for his son Jesus to be crucified and die for our sins. God could have made us like robots without free will but we could not love without it. Free will can be a bitch , just ask Sandusky.
Exactly Jim. Being a saint doesn't excuse being a serial killer -even if you are is Paul the Apostle. They can do all the good in the world, but it is completely meaningless when they hurt the innocent. Doesn't matter if they are the 'Salvation Army', the 'Catholic Church' or Sandusky.
Sorry, but their 'charity' is worthless under the breath of bigotry.
Big Jim -
That's just silly. Weren't universities created by people who were divinely created according to your beliefs, along with their intelligence and curiosity and ability to learn and investigate?
Education is always a good thing. For some of us it can go hand in hand with our faith, whether that faith is Christianity or another religion; others may not believe in any religion, and that is perfectly legitimate too. Don't dis others because they choose different paths than you, and certainly don't dis others for being educated.
Humans wrote the Bible.
If God doesn't like homosexuality, what can't She deal with it on Her own? Isn't She all powerful? Why do so many people feel that they must help Her out with their own brand of hatred and gay-bashing (literally and figuratively)?
Prove there's a god and that they are better than all the other supposed gods.
Then we'll talk.
two teenage lesbians shot in the head in texas. one dead, the other alive but...
thankyou mr craibe, you've done the faithful such a service.
He wasn't in Texas and didn't do anything to them. Grow the hell up.
try to think a bit larger wolfe.
the message that death is deserved by homosexuals is repeated by many godfearing folk the world over. this contributes to an atmosphere where sad people feel called to carry out that mandate.
his frame of reference, his point of view plays a role in the deaths of many homosexuals over and
over again.
he fuels the flames.
not only am i grown up, but capable of abstract thought.
The Salvation Army preaches the same message of hate in the US as they do in Australia.
So does the rest of the American Taliban.
Maridanne, last I had heard no motive had been established for the murders of those two girls in Texas -- do you know something the rest of us don't? May be motivated by hatred of homosexuals, may have been a black person who hates whites. May have been a jealous person, or someone angry about something unknown, a robbery, a random act of violence, or whatever. Don't add to the anger and hatred with baseless speculation. Fact is, SA does a tremendous amount of good for the poor and rejected of America and people around the world. They take in and serve homosexuals and all in need. They don't just sit back and donate to causes, they get in the trenches and do the dirty work, showing love and compassion to those most people only feel sorry for. They speak loudest with their actions, and they stand for something you disagree with, but they have the right to express it, believe it, and live it.
valid point. i'll lay you odds my speculation is correct. i don't blame the sa as much as the individual.
as the old customs and faiths passed so did the empire , those that could remember made light of the beliefs and customs . some remembered the greatness and some the cruelty , but all wondered just how such a civilization could so easily fail .
Mercenary, that's cool, where is that from?
The words were once used to describe Rome and its fall...shortly after Christianity was adopted as the dominant religion.
Used by whom? And where is it written? Interesting that you, allswell, connect it to Christianity. I wonder if that is your personal spin or the context in which it was originally quoted. Could be the original context I suppose. Sounds more appropriate to atheism I should think. China and Russia can attest to that more recently, but I suppose all "great" empires have more or less the same story of rising and falling. It always comes down to lack of moral leadership, common good character, and the ability to get along.
The words themselves don't relate to Christianity. But it is a point that many forget when it comes to the fall of Rome (people chose to blame such things as homosexuality, which was prevalent throughout the Roman history). Constantine actually signed an edict seeking total religious tolerance (first "Christian Emperor", but he was also a practicing neo-paganist), but those that followed grew more and more intolerant. However, we may never know. There are over 210 theories as to the real cause of the collapse.
Regarding China and Russia, both were the blame of Communism as economic policies, more than atheism as religious policies. It is a mistake to connect Communism solely to Atheism, just as it would be to connect Capitalism solely to Christianity. Neither Communism nor Capitalism speak to religion itself, it was the mistake of those seeking to enforce them that they sought to remove or add religion as a requirement.
Intresting. I was referring to the references in the quote related to beliefs, faith, and customs, and the inference that the loss of these played a significant role in the demise of the civilization. The quote seems to infer that the fall of civilization is preceded by the abandonment of the traditional customers, faiths, and beliefs upon which the civilization had been based and sustained. Not making political commentary, but atheism is an integral part or Marxist communism -- religion is the opiate of the masses, a tool to control the masses. True communism rejects religion and puts hope for the future in the hands of mankind. In my view faith is what can bind mankind together in common purpose, but destruction of faith leads to individualism, and individualism inevitably leads to selfish ambition, and selfish ambition leads to falling civilization. In short, what we see happening in America/western civilization in our time, and what history records in all major civilizations throughout time.
I think true Communism rejects "organized" religion, not faith itself. In particular, though, I believe such was espoused also for political purposes: to remove the populace from the influence of Rome.
The problem I actually have with the quote is more that I don't believe traditions are static. In fact I believe static ideals are far, far worse for a society than those that adapt. My beliefs are influenced by Chaoism, in which to be alive is to hold the potential to change. The idea that anything can be immutable or static is anathema to me, it means its more than dead...its a rotting corpse, a plague.
For all that we disagree and may have gotten off on the wrong foot, this has been interesting.
You would think that the only thing the bible talks about is homosexuality from some of the "Christians". According to the New Testament there are only two things that are important. Loving one God and treat others as you would want to be treated.
Christianity is about you leaving this world in better shape then when you came. It is not about condemning others about a lifestyle you do not have but improving your own spirituality. Because I am sure that you are not practicing to perfection everything that is mentioned in the bible.
Sarah, you're right that no-one perfectly practices everything mentioned in the bible, except perhaps passages related to the depravity of man, but I have no idea where you come up with the absolutely false notion that Christianity is all about leaving this world in better shape than when you came. It's all about following Christ and his teachings, and gaining access through faithin him to the only means to be reconciled to God and bridging the gap that separates all who have sinned against him. That certainly includes me for my sin, and it includes those who practice the sin of homosexuality. That's what the bible teaches. It also teaches us not to judge, but to love our neighbors, but it is not loving to deny what constitutes sin and failing to warn the world about sin and it's consequences. Homosexuality is certainly not the only sin -- greed, hatred, gluteny, murder, stealing, lying, cheating, adultery, sex out of the sacred bounds of marriage, and others violate God's moral law and separate us from him. Only repentance of our sin and faith in Christ's saving work on the cross can save us from God's wrath and eternal separation from him. That's what Christianity is all about, and by the way, yes, living in accord with Christ's teachings to the best of our abilities will leave this world a better place.
That's right Jog. You are a true christian. Not one of those cafeteria Christians who pick and choose what passages of the bible they want to believe and who discard the ones that they have concluded are morally repugnant or rediculous. You make sure you keep telling everybody what the bible actually says so that the cafetria christians keep getting exposed to the moral bankrupcy contained in the bible. Maybe then you'll help them to finally eject the nonesense for what it is and stop giving the bigoted mysoginistic true believers credibility.
Christianity and all other religions teach intolerance so this condemnation by the Salvation Army does not surprise me.
The fellow made an insensitive comment and the organization apologized. I've seen a lot worse above, and no apologies. Who is really filled with hate and intolerance here?
Sounds like you're unaware of the Salvation Army's lobbying efforts against gays:
http://www.bilerico.com/2011/11/why_you_shouldnt_donate_to_the_salvation_army_bell.php
Skrekk, I read the story at that link, as well as the comment under it many of which were written by people purporting to be homosexual and either employed by SA or having received the benefits of their services, and they were very positive towards SA. The negative comments were from people who have philosophical disagreement with SA's convictions, and not littl emention is made of first hand experience. From SA's ethics web page:
The Salvation Army upholds the dignity of all persons. For this reason, and in obedience to the example of Jesus Christ, whose compassionate love is all-embracing, The Salvation Army does not discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation in the delivery of its services.
The Salvation Army believes that God's will for the expression of sexual intimacy is revealed in the Bible, and that living fully in accordance with biblical standards calls for chastity outside of heterosexual marriage and faithfulness within it. We do not believe that same-sex attraction is blameworthy and we oppose the vilification and mistreatment of gays and lesbians. We believe that we are accountable for the ways in which we express our sexuality. While recognizing the challenge that this presents, The Salvation Army believes firmly in the power of God's grace to enable all to live in a manner that is pleasing to Him.
In keeping with our mission, we are committed to proclaiming the good news of salvation, the forgiveness of sins, and transformation by the Holy Spirit. We welcome all seekers of faith in Christ to explore Salvation Army church life.
That's like pissing on my leg and telling me it's raining.
The first thing the Salvation Army needs to do is stop it's anti-gay lobbying efforts. Then it needs to treat its gay members with respect, and offer its gay employees the same benefits its straight employees get. Until then it's no better than any other hate group.
Skrekk, I have a fair amount of experience with SA and to the best of my knowledge there is no difference in benefits for employees based on sexual orientation. Thier main focus is on serving the poor and neglected of society, and though they may not allow homosexuals to sleep together in their shelters and/or transitional housing, they are still meeting the basic needs which is their mission. I understand that thier policies may be offensive to some, but that's the way they operate, and since they are offering their services free of charge, and they ask nothing in return, they why not let them be generous in the way that respects the integrity of the faith and practices of the organization? For those with a real moral objection, there is always the choice to not avail themselves of the services. You're asking SA to deny their most deeply held beliefs and conform to a system that opposes their convictions, and to keep silent on what they ardently believe is the truth.
This is the SA's official position on gays in the US:
So if you're gay yoou need to be celibate, and you can't have the same legal right to marry as straight folks like myself enjoy.
Sure sounds like bigotry and hate.
I was struck by the comment about who the children of Adam and Eve married. If one thinks logically, then one must realize that much of the Bible is allegorical. Almost all creation stories are allegories. Part of the problem with many religious people is that they are so absolutely literal. The stories in the Bible were part of the oral history of the Jews. That oral history was enlarged and embroidered in order to inspire, create a sense of community and tribal allegiance, and to provoke fear among those who might consider breaking tribal laws and taboos. We have turned these allegories into absolute truth and we try to force a modern world to live by attitudes and customs that were adopted by a tribal, nomadic people about four thousand years ago. If Jesus walked the earth today, I think he would bring a message rather different from the one he brought two thousand years ago. Many of the core values would be the same, but some specifics would probably be different. The core values of Christianity (as expressed by Jesus) are that we should love one another, take care of the sick and the poor and the old, and live lives that reflect the goodness of God. Some of the verses that still resonate with me are "Judge not, lest you be judged." "Love one another." And his parables are about forgiveness and human responsibility to others. Remember the story of the good Samaritan? He found his injured enemy on the side of the road and took care of him, dressed his wounds, fed him and dressed him. The people who should have taken care of him left him in the road to die. When Jesus told us to take care of the poor and the sick, he didn't say anything about means testing, or why the hungry children should be allowed to die if their parents were lazy. He commanded us to take care of all those who were in need. He told us to give all that we had to the poor.
Those are the messages I take from the Bible. I don't judge others, or at least I try not to. I don't tell the poor man that he should have planned his life better. I simply try to help him. Maybe some of these born-again Christians should try living the life instead of describing what's wrong with their fellow man. The log is in their eye and they are calling others out for the speck of dust the others have in their eyes. Judgment is easy, and often wrong. Try Christian love and forgiveness. Let go of the anger and the judgment. It is an acid that destroys the container that carries it.
Here's the best explanation I've seen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFkeKKszXTw
We are in the age of grace. As believers, we have a right and responsibility to call sin what God calls it SIN! However, God chooses when someone dies and gives them the opportunity to repent and get right with Him until that time arrives.
And at it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: (Heb. 9:27)
Maj. Andrew Craibe is a dangerous idiot. I hope he is fired for wanting to murder people based on a consensual activity that does not involve him.
I made a video about why Homosexuals should have equal rights. It’s at my YouTube channel Zarrakan, and and it's called:
2012 2 17 ZOC Homophobia
Watch it, share it, and join the fight against the evil Homophobes.
Zarrakan
Do you know what you can do with your video ?
Most people don t agree with the laughable B S that being gay is normal, I hope you don t believe these so called polls, you can t be that stupid.. or can you..
The problem here is when you need the public you should guard what comes out of your mouth ..
The only thing they are sorry about is a person in a leadership position, stood up and loudly told the world just how they feel about gay people.
- Romans 1:18-32 -- containing a condemnation of homosexuality. The passage mentions that in God’s eyes, “those who practice such things are deserving of death.”
Not judging here, of course, but if "God" created EVERYTHING and homosexuality is not a free will lifestyle choice, then it appears "God" must be some kind of perverse force.
And didn't Jesus say: "Love thy neighbor as thyself."? Don't recall it ending with " ... unless he's homosexual."
Perhaps it's time for a new age of enlightenment, moving us back to the understanding it's all god, not these archaic black holes in logic propped up by the church for their own personal gain?
Just saying ...
AMERICA STAND UP FOR GOD AND GODS WORD- IT IS A GREAT SIN IN THE EYS OF GOD-same sex is wrong -they live in total sin and will be judged by God on Judgement Day and will be in Hell as only way to salvation and heaven is to confess to Jesus Christ all your sins and same sex is one of the greatest sins--- they can't confess it a sin thus they can't be saved----------why say your sorry when you tell Gays they are wrong- God says tell them and pray for them but do not condon thier actions least you be judged for it also-----------------------STAND UP FOR GOD NOT GAYS
One of the "greatest sins"? Really, is that why it wasn't at the top of the ten commandments? Oh wait, it isn't in that list at all. Isn't rejecting Jesus one of the greatest sins? And where in the bible does he bash gays? When did he say that they should be exuecuted? Didn't Jesus say to Mathew.. "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’”? Sort of seems like Jesus wouldn't be on the "kill gays" bus. Cherry picking and twisting God's word to justify hate probably ranks higher on the old "top sins" list than does being gay. Just saying..
When will all the lovers of homosexuality understand that most sraight people believe a homosexual act is depraved and thus repulsive.
Well Big Jim, as a lover of homosexuality I can tell you the answer to your moronic question is NEVER! When are you bible thumping, holier than thou, hatemongers going to realize that the USA is a secular society and that your so called religious rules are NOT what governs this land. And just for the record, if you REALLY do believe all that CRAP you're rambling, you better hope that I'M right and there is NO GOD or you shall surely burn in hell for your hate and bastardization of what most call Christianity. There is no need to PRAY for my soul, which isn't THAT what you are taught in church, not to hope the sinners die and burn in hell? YOU ARE A DISGRACE AND A SINNER YOURSELF! And finally, Christianity and the hate they preach from the pulpit are the reasons so many turn from the church! Perhaps you should try a different approach.
Most straight folks don't share your homophobia, Big Jim.
And most straight folks aren't members of the Southern Baptist cult.
Nor do most intelligent ones...
Most straight people, are comfortable enough in their own skin, to not give 2 @!$%#s what anyone else does in the confines of their bedrooms.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet
(Romans 1:26-27)
Ta-deu, the randomly selected words of a man named Paul have absolutely significance.
Classic case of "kill the messenger". Like what this guy said or not, it doesn't change the fact that what he said is true: There are SEVERAL places in the bible where it is stated that homosexuality is an abomination and that those who are homosexual should be put to death.
So if you are an American homosexual and decide to become religious (Christian), be aware of what that book lying next to you says about you. And CERTAINLY be aware of what that smiling, Christian family sitting behind you may be thinking of what should be done to you (according to the book).
Or, they could all decide to become a Muslim and instead of only worrying about just the written word, they could also worry about the written word actually being carried out.
You lefties who are anti-Christian know what I speak of...Islam, the religion that actually do kill Amercians just because they don't believe what they believe....the ones you demand Amercians to be tolerant of.
Do you really want to quote the bible? How about these:
Ephesians 6:5: Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.
Leviticus 19:27 You shall not round off the side-growth of your heads nor harm the edges of your beard.
Leviticus 19:19 You are to keep My statutes. You shall not breed together two kinds of your cattle; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor wear a garment upon you of two kinds of material mixed together.
Leviticus 11:10 But whatever is in the seas and in the rivers that does not have fins and scales among all the teeming life of the water, and among all the living creatures that are in the water, they are detestable things to you.
Deuteronomy 25:11-12. If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity.
I support the first amendment.
Sam, I believe you are under the assumption that I am taking the attitude that if it says "death to them" in the bible, then it would be OK to kill them. I am NOT. I'm simply stating to those that may want to become religious, you'd better know what you're getting into first. Joining a church or group knowing full well their beliefs hold you in such low esteem is your own fault. The subject of the article, as well as all the verses that you quoted are exactly why I am NOT religious. I believe in God, but all the religions that sprouted to supposedly "honor" him...NO WAY. Read up on the beliefs of any of them (yes, Virginia, even YOURS!) and I don't see how anyone doesn't think they are ridiculous and/or dangerous.
Although I try to be as charitable as a person of modest means can afford to be, I have long since discontinued support for any faith based institutions. This moron reminds me of my reasons for making this decision lo these many years ago. I'm old, white, straight and politically independent, but not particularly ignorant. (which merely means I read things other than the sports pages and tv guide) The old testament god was created as a venomous, spiteful, petty, hate-mongering entity to keep the faithful terrified for pecuniary reasons. Bible thumpers need to heed the words of the great teacher, Jesus. Where's the love?