Yup, somebody is ready for a war! Hope it doesn't get out of hand to where our military will be told to go in there.

"imported al Qaeda terrorists"

Thanks for that laugh, if you beleive that I have some land for sale, cheap!!!

Yes, the intentional killing of civilians is a war crime; even if the media is controlled by Assad, that doesn't make them a legitimate wartime target. Although the likelihood is practically nil, I hope those that planned and orchestrated the assault are brought to justice.

Tell me though: what do the rules of war have to say about shelling populated cities indiscriminately? Anything? I mean, I know that Syria has already committed war crimes by detaining and torturing civilians captured from war zones and protests, but I just want to make sure I have a complete list of all the terrible things the military has done to their own people.

Al Qaeda my azz! What makes you think it was that groupe? In case you haven't noticed anything, they are pretty occupied right now. If anyone has done anything it is Assad and his Baath party(you know that outlawed groupe)

Joseph Zrnchik "The attack on a television station and the killing of its broadcast personnel is a war crime"

Virtually everything Assad is doing to his own people is a 'war crime'.

Syria would be well advised to avoid conflict with Turkey - history has shown that the Turks are tough, ruthless fighters.

Joseph Zrnchik

Do you REALLY think that the United States is 'importing al-Qaida fighters like those that took down the twin towers' into Syria to fight for us?

Somehow, I think your credibility is kaput.

War Crimes? Hell, that's when the Arab 'terrorists' attack. When the United Snakes (US/Israel/NATO) baby killers attack civilians it's 'always' self-defernse!

They need protection from the United Snakes (US/Israel/NATO) war criminals and I'm not whistling 'La Paloma.'

Whistling no, sucking on something yes? Too much time in the shadows of the Santa Catalinas chewing on pud or payote dude???

its just a matter of time before we have a new dictator in Syria..

I am so sick of posts absolving Washington of their war crimes. As an American the way our gov't is handling our foreign affairs is disgusting. They send our troops in year after year with no final objective in winning only to keep the war going. How many civilians has Washington killed? What country will we go into next under the guise of freeing the people from a dictator? History will show us that the United States will fade away just as the Roman empire did as well as the British empire and every other empire that tried to rule the world. God help us all.

InDogpatch, just look at where that cowboy claims to be from: Tombstone, Arizona. Might be that cowboy is fantasizing about being Wyatt Earp, Doc Holliday, or maybe even one of the Dalton boys........

Joseph Zrnchik, you got some actual documentation to show that the folks who took out that TV station are "imported al Qaeda terrorists"? I'm betting that you're just trying to stir things up with false, baseless claims that even a Reich-wing Tea-Tagger Repugnicrat CONservative would not dream of making.

No worries, @Jackson, if Syria and Turkey go to war (highly unlikely at this stage) Syria will fall within 3 days.

Assad just barely has hold of his miltary, and that is only because they do not feel they are threatened.

That would change in a heart beat if Turkey went in.

Turkish military is far faster, better, stronger, tecnological, and deadly.

Pocket supporters of Assad would be the only ones left to wave the white flag.

No USA involvement would be needed, and the US might even miss it if they blink.

Iraq now part of Iran, , Libya now controlled by Islamic faction, Egypt now controlled by the brotherhood and the other countries that are now being controlled by Islamic extremist after the USA supported the overthrow of at least a partially stable country... The foundation for the overthrow was that these countries were willing to sell oil for other currencies and reject the dollar... The financial rulers said no and backed the overthrow of these countries and the first item was to install central banking and start to enslave the country through debt.

Syria is backed by Russia and China. Russia has a naval base in Syria...They will not allow Turkey or NATO to destroy this regime or they know Iran is the next target.

What would happen if Bahrain was to fall to the Islamic brotherhood would the USA fight to retain the ruling power there?

The only WINNERS are....The Military Industrial Complex... LOSERS are .. All of the lives lost and ruined and the taxpayers.

Where is REASON and the ability to live in peace as a worldwide community which is the hope of 90% of the worlds population.

Hope it doesn't get out of hand to where our military will be told to go in there.

As a NATO member, should Turkey be attacked by Syria, the US (and the rest of NATO) is OBLOGATED by the terms of the NATO Charter to respond on Turkey's behalf. This is how we will get dragged into this war.

Iran brought the problem on itself by meddling in Syrian affairs to begin with.

Iran backed Assad back then and now.

Figure it out folks... Assad is a Ba'ath party Socialist, living in a predominantly Sunni country, and is allied to a Shia country that helped keep him in the seat.

It was written on the wall YEARS AGO.

The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being

a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.

my idea is and has been sort of like his, but here is the jist... way i been seeing it. and if you go back, and read any previous article you want on the matter, but its been there the whole time, and people seem to ignore it.

in each of the middle east uprisings, how did all this start to play out? the same type every time, but people ignore the obvious. Iran, was made out to be a bad guy because HE wasnt going to put up with the same thing each country was facing. at first a small movement for democracy. the only thing that they did, but Iran did not, when the so called killing from a so called sniper, or some other small time supposed government assasination. then the killing of 3... 6.. funeral goers as a means of a threat?

I dont think so.

tell me... what president would have any one of these small types of incidents take place, and not have someones head on a platter to give to the people that would, and were more than miffed. and in EVERY case, there was the muslim brotherhood. on their heels like little sh!ts were AQ... just enough in the media. these SAME fighters, killed in cold blood, defectors who at any point served as in Libya, and all across, ol' Daffy. YET EACH and every dictator has said 1 common phrase.... outside forces at work.

this hole arab spring is bullsh!t. we are going to split control of the middle east, and its resourses, and you guess the rest. the only way the UN/NATO can do this without it looking like what it is, would be to let AQ and MBH, give them their wants, and let them keep the nuke(s) like the one in Libya. They wont work if they try to fire one, but it will be looked at as a hostile threat. and its up for grabs, just like Iraq, and Afghanistan...

believe what you want... call me nuts.... but i do get to read a lot of news.

The reason they keep claiming that their revolutions are the results of outside forces are because it's pretty much the most convenient excuse in the world.

The fact is that America used to do a lot of that kind of meddling. Do we do it today? I don't think so, but I can't say, since we might have just gotten better at it (since evidence of US quietly inciting rebellion is quite rare nowadays).

However, this also creates a precedent and a lovely excuse for every leader at risk of getting overthrown by his own people. The quick shot of nationalism and call for unity in the face of an enemy that seems to be everywhere (America) is an easy out. The only problem is that it quickly divides the country, but that just makes it easier to figure out where to deploy troops.

So while it's a possibility, I still favor the more conventional and likely reasoning that people are sick of having their lives run by twisted dictators and want to have more say in governance.

Blake: At least have some patience and wait for troops to come back from Afghanistan.

Possibly. I don't see how they could expect Syria to somehow attack when they are so busy dealing with their internal problems. So why need troops at the border, except to show that they can attack Syria at any moment. Yes, now other governments are moving their map pieces around looking to see how they can take advantage.

I can at best oppose our involvement in Syria or any ME nation! Why lose much for nothing?

I am glad about: Palace of Justice in a Muslim nation is blown up!

That is where "justice" stands!

So why need troops at the border, except to show that they can attack Syria at any moment.

This is a set up. The article states that the area is used by rebels as well as refugees. Rebels will lure the Syrian troops in so the Turks can get involved and claim Syrian agression.

Exactly what I thought Arguesforsport.

Well, the only strategy I've heard for actual military intervention in Syria is the development of safe zones within the border, heavily fortified areas with easy supply routes through Turkey. So if that plan goes ahead (I personally don't think it will), Turkey will already have its forces in place and ready to secure as much land as possible very quickly. Once the rebels have a protected, largely unassailable supply base in-country they can manage operations more efficiently (and hopefully reign in their more indiscriminate allies).

@TFNJ,

A major reason that Turkey is sending troops to the border is the same reason that we are sending National Guard to north-central Florida. It is a very easy way to provide relief infrastructure. There is a huge number of Syrian refugees that are trying to escape what is now a full-blown civil war. There is also a surprisingly large numbers of Syrian military personnel who are leaving the country to avoid killing countrymen. The number of Syrian refugees is now estimated at 50,000+ and is growing daily.

The easy way to handle refugees in this number is to form camps, house them in tents, feed them from field kitchens, supply sanitary facilities, potable water, and medical care. Another issue is security from Assad infiltrators and general troublemakers. These are the situations that the military has the men, the equipment, and the training to do. The fact that it also serves as an inhibition to Syria causing more trouble along its Turkish border is lagniappe.

Jonathan-1982062

I can at best oppose our involvement in Syria or any ME nation! Why lose much for nothing?

UM.. Because actual lasting Peace and the right of ALL people -- no matter where they happen to live or be from -- to have the same freedoms that we in the U.S. have, which are far more than "nothing", is always worth a huge sacrifice, that's why. But it's so nice that you seem to place so much importance on money and material wealth instead.

Too bad for you that what happens in the "ME" now greatly affects things here in the U.S.

Russia and China will stay near completely out of it.

China needs the waiver on the oil embargo, which the US are already likely to grant.

Russia can not afford getting involved in a conflict against the worlds largest and most developed Arab military.

Much will be answered on Saturday, when Annan meets with the Fat5 and we see who else shows up for the talks.

The issue here is that Syria has now fired on or at foriegn countries on 4 seperate occasions in just the past 2 months, 3 times of which were at Turkey or it's military.

So it is a baseball game, 3 strikes and your out.

Turkey has EVERY right to defend it's borders, and will do so swiftly and decisively.

Much will be answered when Saturday arrives and the Fat5 meet with Annan. It will be interesting to see who else shows or, or doesn't.

There is a parallel to the situation on the Turkey/Syria border that many seem to be ignoring: The U.S.A./Mexico border. That's right, there are Mexicans who cross the border without benefit of passport or visa, so they might try to get away from what is happening in Mexico. I'm not saying that a large percentage of those Mexicans are "refugees", but it does happen. After all, the war now going on between the Mexican government and the drug cartels is a kind of civil war.

The difference is that here in the U.S.A. we call all undocumented Mexicans "illegal aliens" and treat them like trash -- or worse.

We are so big on telling other nations how to treat their people, yet we fail miserably at treating "illegal aliens" the way we tell other nations how to treat their people. And no, I am NOT talking about Government, I am talking about "we" as Americans, the Citizens, groups and INDIVIDUALS.

As a NATO member, should Turkey be attacked by Syria (or Turkey claims to be attacked by Syria), the US (and the rest of NATO) is OBLOGATED by the terms of the NATO Charter to respond on Turkey's behalf. This is how we will get dragged into this war.

Agnon Mema...

Because actual lasting Peace and the right of ALL people -- no matter where they happen to live or be from -- to have the same freedoms that we in the U.S. have

Peace in the Middle East - LMFAO that is a hoot, haha-hehe.

Seriously dude, have you paid any attention to the last 3,000 years of history. The ME doesn't know how to live in peace and no amount of US money or blood will change that.

That's right, Turkey is an ally to the US and NATO strong point, and Russia trying to send them (Syria) repaired attack helicopters, the writing is on the wall that this isn't going to be pretty. That's the only country over there that has a port for Russia ships, they are going to want to have a voice.

Where will it all end? If Israel gets sucked into these ME conflicts then its a sure bet the end of days aswe know them are fast approaching, this whole mess is unpredictable, our own government recently helped this mess to developits going to blow up in our faces thanks to failed foreign policies. time for America to back out of that situation if we support Turkey do it from a distance do not send in troops not a one, food and supplies some equipment but not one single serviceman. Turkey can handle this one, our involvement would only inflame it. and keep Israel out of the picture.

jonedep

Peace in the Middle East - LMFAO that is a hoot, haha-hehe.

Seriously dude, have you paid any attention to the last 3,000 years of history. The ME doesn't know how to live in peace and no amount of US money or blood will change that.

Are you trying to say that it is impossible for the PEOPLE living there to learn how to live Peacefully together? You seem to claim to somehow "know" that the PEOPLE living there will never, ever be able to live together Peacefully....... Well, you may be right -- but only because of attitudes such as your own that it is just "impossible" for "the other side" to actually treat anyone else with kindness and dignity.

"Peace in the Middle East - LMFAO that is a hoot, haha-hehe."

People used to think the same thing about Europe. The idea that the entire continent could go more than a decade without a war between the countries there was a laughable prospect. They fixed that.

SF accountant

Or is it impossible if it isn't white people?

That is likely the thought process.

Agnon Mema...

Are you trying to say that it is impossible for the PEOPLE living there to learn how to live Peacefully together?

That is exactly what I'm saying. A popular defintion of insanity is: doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different results. That's what war in the ME gets western countries - loss of money and blood with no change in the results. The only people they HATE more than each other is us.

It's not "me or my attitude" that keeps the people of the ME from treating each other with "kindness and dignity" - It's thousands of years of religious intolerance and culture.

Thousands of years of religous intolerance and culture and all the warfare associated with it are in no way unique to the Arab world.

For some reason they've taken a lot longer to dig themselves out of that hole, but I see no plausible reason why they ultimately can't. Europe managed to put aside enough Christianity to get along, and they used to treat wars like we treat the superbowl.

To Agnon Mema: I actually changed that line because I thought it was too provocative, but you caught it first >.<

jonedep

A popular defintion of insanity is: doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different results.

Say, that sounds a lot like sitting back and expecting one person to fix all the problems in the U.S. -- just because he ain't the guy you voted for!

As for what I said about treating others with kindness and dignity -- I was not referring to how the people in the "ME" treat each other. Think about for a while, and you just might be able to figure out who I was talking about.

SF accountant

To Agnon Mema: I actually changed that line because I thought it was too provocative, but you caught it first >.<

Well, I still hear about how it's always the Africans, Mexicans, "ragheads" and other people "of color" -- as well as Martians from Alpha Centauri **wink-wink-nudge-nudge** -- who are just plain warmongers who would rather kill because of some imagined slight than actually let someone live in peace. The ones I keep hearing it from never seem to pay any attention to their own bloodlust, though.

I just hate hearing debates devolve into accusations of racism. Ending a line of points with an implicit "and if you disagree with me, you're a racist!" is a really annoying tactic, and in a moment of weakness I used it.

Islamic fundamentalist Erdogan, Saudis, Kuwaiti, UAE, Qatar rulers should wear seventh century desert dresses and do their desert and tribal dances furiously.

It may work with Assad!

If that does not work, they should assemble some girls and women and show their bravery!

Saudis have huge numbers of them assembled from all over the world!

Yet

know nukes.There are more U.S military in turkey then you know.We've had shared bases with the turks for a long time.How do you think they got the F4s?It's our old surplus from Nam,far better then the spitfires 101s they use to train with.

Turkey is a member of NATO, as is the United States.

If Turkey is attacked by Syria, the US is OBLIGATED by the terms of the NATO Charter to respond on Turkeys behalf. That's why Turkey moved it's troops to the border, to drag the US into the fight.

@jonedep

Incorrect.

Turkey has already been attacked by Syria 3 times, and the last attack marked the 4th attack on a foriegn interest or land.

This is why the Fat5 are meeting on Saturday and other ambassadors will show for the party.

Turkey is simply showing that if they are attacked AGAIN, they will need no ones help in rolling over Syria.

Iran will NOT help Syria militarily.

Russia will NOT help Syria militarily.

Assad will flee.

Hatchet...

Nato Charter - Article 5

The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security .

All Turkey has to do is ask, we can't say no.

As for the rest of your post: maybe, maybe not - nobody really knows, that's the real danger. Forgive me if I don't put much faith in your ability to predict Russian or Iranian military intentions.

jonedep, I point your attention to the words in that quoted excerpt: in Europe or North America. Turkey is neither in Europe, nor in North America. Plus, your original argument is that the U.S. is obligated to help Turkey just because of Turkey being attacked.

Nice flip-flop and waffling, though.

KnowNukes?

Can you say, Powderkeg? At least its not US troops.

Maybe not yet, but it's bad enough that anyone has to be killed over some damn political posturing.

@Agnon; well, technically and otherwise the part of Turkey, including most of Istanbul, that is on the west shore of the Bosporous is indeed in Europe, while the rest is in Asia. Understandably confusing. You can drive the main bridge over the Bosporous and you're driving from Asia into Europe...and Istanbul.

Nice post- I think you nailed it on all points. I also note you didn't speculate that this could be the beginning of a major global war, that we were planning to attack Iran after crushing Syria, or that we were behind Al Qaeda all along. I happen to agree with what you didn't say too; this situation is unfolding in unpredictable directions, but I doubt that this tinpot dictator and his wholesale slaughter of civilians are part of anyone's "master plan".

You are ignoring two issues. 1. Turkey with the election of the Islamic fundamentalist Erdogan is moving backwards. 2. Genocides of Armenians for a decade. And you see huge numbers of Armenians in the US.

Turkey, Sunni Saudi Arabia and their Sunni Arab League co, al-Qaida, MB and others can at best do their seventh century desert dances, shows and threats!

Assad, one of the best ME rulers, will be able to handle them. Russia will play its part. Just wait and see!

Sunni Saudi, Kuwaiti, UAE, Qatar and co jokers with their seventh century desert dresses and barbaric and bigoted attitudes, could not handle one Saddam!

@Jonathan,

You honestly think Assad is one of the best ME rulers?!?! I'll bet you think his father was a saint too. Perhaps you should move there if you think he's one of the great rulers. Goofball!!! He's nothing but a war pig and an atrocity to mankind. I rank him and his father right up there next to Hitler.

Jonathan, you're missing one major point...the Turkish military. You might want to research how many times the military has checked (coup) strict Islamic governments.

And George...

Syria has a large army, chemical weapons, and it is still being supplied in weapons by the Iranians and Russians and with men from Lebanon and Iraq.

It's not size that matters, but the troops in/behind those weapons. Think about Iraq (Desert Storm & the invasion). They had the 4th largest military in the world but had ill-trained starving troops. I can remember seeing Iraqi troops with no boots (b/c their commanders would take them away so they wouldn't desert) and eating raw onions. Now think if those T-72s, BMPs, ADA, MIGS, etc were manned by trained troops (e.g. Russian, German, French, Indian, Chinese, JDF, IDF, etc). We're already seeing Syrian military personnel switching sides. Assad is done and if they even creep near the Turkish border in any threatening matter, the Turks will roll of their a$$es. I would give 3-5 days max for the Turks to have all of Syria occupied.

BTW - Retire Army Military Intelligence, SFC

"You are ignoring two issues. 1. Turkey with the election of the Islamic fundamentalist Erdogan is moving backwards. 2. Genocides of Armenians for a decade. And you see huge numbers of Armenians in the US."

I believe Charles ignored those issues because they're irrelevant to his point and inherently arguable. I'm not sure on what criteria you're judging Assad as one of the "best" ME rulers; as a rule, if there's a rebellion in your country, you're not a very good ruler. Period. I mean, if you were good enough at oppression they'd be too scared. If you cared about your people enough then they wouldn't want to fight. If you were good with economics they'd have too much to lose to bother with revolution. None of that is true, and Assad is paying the price for his incompetence.

That said, I'd like to disagree with Charles about Turkey taking over. Don't forget that this all started with pro-democracy protests. These people aren't going to see their fight for more autonomy end with a different nation controlling their government and making sure it turns out they way Turkey wants it. Despite the fact that I think it would be for the best, but I just don't see it happening.

@Charles,

The paranoia about a fundamentalist Muslim government in Syria is badly misplaced. All his and his father's evil deeds aside, Syria is an extremely secular society and like it that way. A lot of this is because both Assads advocated for secularism as a way to advance their own Baathist Party.

I frankly agree, however, with your sentiment that a "Turkish solution" might be worth supporting. The Turks have a fundamentalist Muslim President. But he is constrained by a modern secular constitution and government. And Attaturk made sure that the military saw its domestic role as guarantors of secularism. This is not a bad model. Letting Turkey take the lead (with NATO backing) is a way of keeping the American nose out of the crack. At this point the Assad regime is so fragile that just the threat of Turkish military intervention might just do the trick to kick him out.

A 'reconstruction' of the old Ottoman Empire might not be a bad way to go compared to what exists today. People in the ME and N. Africa had more freedom and security back then than they do now -- including Christians. The Ottomans knew how to control the crazies and bomb throwers back then.

Leave it to the Turks. It's in their neighborhood and we're busy -- quite frankly. The Soviets - oops! Russians - would launch less saber-rattling against the Turks than if we got involved and China would be indifferent -- as my guess.

Jonathan-1982062

You are ignoring two issues. 1. Turkey with the election of the Islamic fundamentalist Erdogan is moving backwards. 2. Genocides of Armenians for a decade. And you see huge numbers of Armenians in the US.

Turkey, Sunni Saudi Arabia and their Sunni Arab League co, al-Qaida, MB and others can at best do their seventh century desert dances, shows and threats!

Assad, one of the best ME rulers, will be able to handle them. Russia will play its part. Just wait and see!

Sunni Saudi, Kuwaiti, UAE, Qatar and co jokers with their seventh century desert dresses and barbaric and bigoted attitudes, could not handle one Saddam!

Point 1 is just your opinion. Point 2 has some validity in this issue, but only "some". As for those "seventh century desert dances, shows and threats" -- try at least 15th Century. Get with the program, Jonny.

p.s., Jonny - your hatred of the United Arab Emirates, as well as Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, Yemen, Oman, Iraq, Lebanon, Palestine, etc shows only that you do not happen to agree with anything Islamic. It does not show any true education on your part at all. Interesting, though, that you support that other Islamic Dictatorship in Syria.......

@ Julie

SPOT ON !!

What do you think will be decided at the Fat5 this Saturday?

Hatchet-101

What do you think will be decided at the Fat5 this Saturday?

Well, if the U.S.A. sends representatives, it will likely say "Wait and see". Remember, Syria doesn't have any OIL that the U.S.A. wants.

@ Agnon Mema

Syria has a primarily Sunni population wishing for a democratic goverment to be emplaced, which further stabilizes the M.E. and is something the USA wants because it surrounds Iran with Sunni backed populations, mostly working toward democracy and peace in the M.E.

Azerbaijan would be the last Shia country that borders Iran, and they are part of the NATO alliance, happy to sit the sideline, and prefer to see themselves as small in relation to the big picture of the M.E.

Hatchet-101, if it were as simple as wanting to install a pro-democracy government -- the U.S. would have sent soldiers into Somalia already. Notice that Somalia does not have any OIL, either.

Somalia also has no strategic value at this point in time.

The US tried installing democracy via military invasion.

It was... something short of a success. Not quite a failure, but...

Supporting democracies is an important US goal. But obviously it's not the only one - that would be a naive hope - and it's not one that is always feasible. Turning Somalia into a functioning state, democracy or no, would a nightmare.

The Arab Spring is convenient in that it has taken minimal US involvement to overthrow these authoritarian regimes. And even then, Obama took far too long in my opinion to get on board with it just because a US-friendly regime was threatened.

Julie: I agree that it is the Turkish army putting brakes on the Islamic fundamentalist Erdogan's march backwards to their earlier days.

Story will be similar in Egypt with MB, Salaffi and other Sunni Islamic extremist supporters!

Most of the ME rulers are either in seventh century desert tribal days or at most in 19th century.

Out of the whole messed up/bad lot Assad is the best ruler.

Start from comparing the dresses and opening up to non-Muslims!

Pretty accurate.

Beem thinking that for a while. With the world in an economic disaster, these things trigger wars.

I wrote "beem". It won't be my last typo, cause I didn't sleep. Feels like I'm high on bath salts.

While its possible, I doubt its likely. Big wars are expensive. The right has painted itself into a corner- one move in that direction and everyone already programmed to be OCD on the topic of the national debt (the TEA party, for instance) will suffer a neural meltdown.

It is difficult to guess whether Saudis, oil companies, Jewish lobby and their lobbyists and cheap agents like Hillarys, McCains, Libermanns would get us into the Islamic ME hell holes.

Hope people have learnt lessons from Iraqi wars and Afghan war.

Best thing from our interests will be to keep away and focus on problems at home!

We will worry about the winners later.

Why should we lose everything by getting in between Shiites, Sunnis, Kurds, Turks and so on battles between them?

War as a means of stimulating economies have been out of fashion for a while, now. A world war in particular would do impossibly severe damage to the global economy due to the severing of trade links (all the nations which we would presumably be fighting do significant trade with us and/or our allies).

It's uncomfortingly fashionable to predict "World War III" at every hint of military strife, from the Iraq war to China arming up. It didn't happen then, and it's not going to happen now. Not over a worthless country like Syria.

War is out of fashion? Since the Bush Administration you mean? That isn't that long ago.

I specifically said "war as a means of stimulating economies". You obviously remember the Iraq War. Do you remember how our economy just took off, investment flowed from all corners, and the average wage jumped in a matter of months? No? That's because it didn't happen. We didn't even get the oil that everyone is so certain we went to Iraq for.

War doesn't stimulate economies much if at all; it just directs resources to other industries, which are quite notably destructive, not productive, in their use. If we actually went to war with someone who we traded significantly with, the results would be economically catastrophic.

That AZ cowboy (and here I stress the "boy") seems to have a lot of hatred built up inside. That cowboy also is a bona-fide BIGOT. I am almost surprised that the cowboy did not use the terms "Hebes", "kikes" or "Christ-killers".

The UN is impotent.

@AZCowboy,

As much as I want to leave an educated response to your comment telling you why Russia won't get involved and why Turkey could take care of this situation without any use of NATO's resources, I am afraid you might not be able to comprehend logical thoughts. So in that case, I will just leave you with this:

You're an idiot.

AZZ Cowboy .......Nice trolling motor you got there .....United Snakes???? Really ? thatguy is correct ....you are an idiot

@AZcowboy; "Kristalnacht II"? So lessee...you're a blatant anti-semite openly advocating mass murder. And how much "stolen treasure" have you lost operating out of Tombstone? You want to be a "rebel"? Pick up a shovel and go help fix the water supply.

Don't make fun of AZ! He only makes up stupid nicknames and blames ethnic minorities because he's incapable of understanding complex matters and must find a single, monolithically "evil" entity to blame for all the problems in the world.

That's like making fun of someone with a disibility! Not cool.

I know, but hope springs eternal.

And they really are trying to fix their own water supply. The BLM won't let the local folks use heavy equipment on federal land, so the citizens of Tombstone are working to repair damaged supply pipes with picks and shovels.

Mr. Foster.The problem with Az is that they tried to claim land without any kind of long term water supply.The silver ran out and so has the water.It's a semi-arid land that can't support that many people.Plain and simple.That's what happen when you expose yourself to prolonged heat.You fry your brain and think you can make an oasis.

There's still water...it's just not as well managed as it could be. As in California, by far the majority goes to agriculture. However, I completely agree that the lack of foresight is considerable, and downright dangerous. Tombstone is a tiny place and doesn't need much. The big problems are, and will be, in expanding large metropolitan areas like Phoenix. Though smaller, Tucson is even worse off (no big reservoirs/lakes like Phoenix can access). I once proposed desalinsation plants in the shallow waters of the northern Gulf of California. Southwest, including Mexico, gets water, Mexico makes some money. But there are environmental concerns with that solution. The situation is complicated.

american#1-3463378

Mr. Foster.The problem with Az is that they tried to claim land without any kind of long term water supply.The silver ran out and so has the water.It's a semi-arid land that can't support that many people.Plain and simple.That's what happen when you expose yourself to prolonged heat.You fry your brain and think you can make an oasis.

You forgot something: They then blame the federal Government for everything -- no matter that AZ is actually at fault.

Alan Dean Foster

There's still water...it's just not as well managed as it could be. As in California, by far the majority goes to agriculture.

Very true. There is a very manageable form of farming, perfectly suited to the semi-arid regions of the world, called "Dry Farming", where water is not wasted by allowing it to run off fields and into ditches. It also takes into account the fact that water "just happens" to evaporate fastest during the day. The problem is that the Big Business Agriculturalists insist on using "Wet Farming" methods, where water is applied to the fields during the heat of the day and wasted indiscriminately.

Of course, the other part of the problem is people who insist on wasting water at home, by doing things such as watering their lawns more than once a week (even when it rains three days out of that week!) and washing their cars more than once a month......

@Agnon; all very true. Again, the situation in Tombstone is particularly complicated because you have the water supply pipes crossing Federally-administered land.

Turkey is in NATO. US is in NATO. If Turkey goes to war, US goes to war.

Perhaps, but not necessary. With U.S. logistical and surveillance support, the Turkish army could be in Damascus in a week.

That's not really how NATO works, Liberal_Libertarian. Turkey can only get us to help if they're attacked. That could happen since they're moving troops closer to a conflict zone, but there's plenty of scope for us to keep out of it if the POTUS wants to.

Liberal_Libertarian

Turkey is in NATO. US is in NATO. If Turkey goes to war, US goes to war.

Not necessarily. If Turkey is attacked -- then the U.S.A. goes to war alongside Turkey. But if Turkey is the one to attack.....the U.S.A. stays out of it unless Turkey invokes some sort of treaty clause that says the U.S.A. is obligated to help.

Turkey would only have to request that other members of the Fat5 stay out of it.

Turkey would not need ANY help in walking through Syria.

Not even Assad's troops want to fight for him any more.

Russia and China can offer him a deaf ear and a soft shoulder to cry upon.

The story is almost over.

@K.Anderson.. Turkey manufactures it's own F-16s and only relies on the US for a few small component parts. Otherwise, they manufacture their own military machine.

Facts are facts! Thanks Hatchet.

As for...

...the Turkish army could be in Damascus in a week.

Only if they are low-crawling the whole way :-)

The Turkish military and the Israeli military have long and friendly connections. Wouldn't be surprised to see the Israelis secretly providing the Turks with useful info. Never come to light, of course.

Note to everyone who thinks the world will end this year: Send me your stuff.

I'm taking my XBOX to my grave. You can't have it.

*sigh*...read about the latest research into the Mayan calendar. It only portends a rollover to the next stretch of time, not an apocalypse.

It only portends a rollover to the next stretch of time, not an apocalypse.

Well then sorry denver_bill. My new car stays with me :-)

I love coming here after reading the daily comics.

These forums are great substitute for the daily comics.......

Yeah, as if Christians, Atheists, and all sorts of other "ists" never do that, too........ get off the anti-Islamic bigotry.

So what are you predicting? An invasion of the continental U.S. by the Russians and the Chinese? Please do some reading. The Russians and the Chinese don't even get along well with each other. How would they invade...on that fleet of thousands of Chinese and Russian troop ships that don't exist? And of course their own weapons systems are invulnerable to an EMP blast, right? I could go on, but....

When did EMP weapons become all the rage, anyway? When was the last time EMP was used on a battlefield? People keep tossing around this theory of all wars being won instantly with one convenient missile strike that apparently can't be stopped and immediately renders all armies impotent. I mean, it's not like it couldn't happen, I suppose, but judging from the grasp of geopolitics and military strategy expressed by Nicky and others who favor this "EMP is the new ICBM" paradigm, I'm quite skeptical.

Comes from watching too many made-for-TV SciFi movies, IMHO.

EMP weapons may exist on paper, but no conflict ready devices have ever been built.

Mostly because the only practical way of generating an EMP is by a sub-orbital detonation of a nuclear bomb, and frankly the bomb is put to better use hitting terrestrial targets.

It does seem to me that any force capable and willing to detonate nukes over a country and cause widespread havoc might as well just go all in and drop the nuke on the target itself.

From 2008: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122748923919852015.html#articleTabs%3Darticle

It doesn't matter if it's another false flag operation or a true attack. The effects are identical.

If it happens a majority could kill each other off to survive -- No invasion required. Nuking a target directly includes poisoning valuable real estate, not a wise long-term tactic in peace or war.

The Russian and Chinese reliance on electricity and technology has not totally supplanted their ability to carry on with a 19th Century subsistence. America has no such fallback option.

This is 2012. Keep on whistling into that coming hot wind. Ignorant blowhards always know best, until it's too late to learn, or protect themselves.

My wife's from West Texas, was raised on a farm, knows how to butcher, skin, and prepare pretty much anything that walks, crawls, or slithers. Didn't have indoor plumbing 'til she was 14. We could handle the 19th century.

That the Russians or Chinese might or might not be able to do so is irrelevant. They don't want to anymore than anybody else does. Been to St. Petersburg or Hong Kong recently?

And zapping a target rather than bombing it doesn't include killing or destroying any of the soldiers or infrastructure you're fighting against, which is not a wise short-term tactic in war (not sure about peace, but I think it's a bad idea then, too). Soldiers can still shoot without communications, some military hardware is hardened against EMP damage and those that aren't can be repaired. Not that any of that makes EMP totally non-viable, but it seems awfully hypocrtical to be calling others ignorant blowhards while declaring a single high-tech weapon which has never actually been battlefield tested the doom of any and all American military operations. Do you think you have access to any information or strategies that our generals don't? Or do you just think you're smarter than all of them?

Nicky Tesla

One well-placed EMP blast over Turkey and the conflict becomes hand-to-hand between secular turkeys and highly-motivated Syrians with a 10,000-dead score to settle. Any stupor power is also then not capable of assisting, since their electronics will have been smoked too.

Oh, really? That EMP would have to cover the entire planet to have such an effect that even the "stupor powers" would be immobilized.

Russia and China have been patiently sitting on the sidelines watching Britain and the U.S. dwindle their martial resources over the past decade, as their domestic popular support shrinks to new lows. Now that U.S. manufacturing has outfitted China with cutting-edge factories that can instantly convert to war production, and Russia has developed enough internal energy resources for both to be self-sufficient, the "policeman of the world" is set up for a very big and quick hit.

Um... You obviously never paid much attention in your World History classes, or you would know all about how JAPAN and GERMANY both underestimated the ability of U.S. factories to rapidly convert from a peace-time to a war-time production. Looks like you are making that same mistake.

We can all thank the globalists for this failed attempt at world domination. The FEMA interment camps won't be much good once all transportation stops. EMP stops combustion engines too, like cars, trucks, trains, planes, buses, and all electronic communications. With no radioactive contamination, the "enemy" can take control almost instantly.

First, FEMA has nothing to do with interment camps -- which are for the imprisonment of non-combative "undesirables" such as the Nissin during WW2. Second, an EMP has ZERO effect of simple combustion engines such as the ones in the majority of "collector cars" -- because of the lack of any COMPUTER-CONTROLLED COMPONENTS. EMPs do not work on simple capacitors and spark plugs, Einstein.

By sitting idly by as these traitors destroyed America from the inside, the vast majority have become de facto accomplices to its impending demise.

What "traitors" would those be, bubba? I didn't know that you were the entirety of CONGRESS, either (Constitution of the United States of America, Article 3, Section 3, "Treason"). Hey, bubba, if it were not for the U.S.A. conducting trade with China and the rest of the world, YOU would not be able to post your inane, silly, illogical, not-to-mention hateful and bigoted, rantings here on the interwebs.

Gee, I sure can't wait for DWTS to return -- and how about that AGT? "Honey, get me another beer..."

Yes, you go ahead and sit on your couch and watch DWTS. The rest of us will be busy ensuring that you have the right to watch such stupid and silly garbage......

By the way, Nicky, they are called TURKS -- not "turkeys". Oh, and because those super-duper-uber-powerful EMPs will have to be powered by detonating nukes, there is that little thing known as nuclear-fallout to consider. I seriously doubt that anyone wants to deal with that stuff blowing into their own air-space...............

Nice thoughts, but you're talking to lonely, mostly single guys with crappy jobs (if they have work), no future, and most importantly, a raging sense of impotence when it comes to affecting world, not to mention local, events. All they can do is fulminate endlessly in blogs and on Facebook pages. They've never been anywhere, never done anything, and their understanding of foreign affairs comes, if at all, from visiting Disney parks. I truly feel sorry for them...taken together it makes for a sad life.

I fairly eloquent appeal to reason. I applaud you, Sir.

hey Alan, who the hell are calling a lonely single guy!?! LOL!!

Jonathan-1982062

If atrocities and barbarism on girls, children and women are the criteria, then the most despotic, autocratic and bigoted Sunni Saudi ruler with his 5000 princes and princesses, Kuwaiti, UAE and other Arab League Sunni rulers and their rich sheiks are the biggest culprits in the history.

Hey, that may be so -- but how about you turn all that HATRED and BIGOTRY off for a few years. Hell, the "Christian" U.S. Government implemented genocidal practices against the Aboriginal inhabitants (so-called "American Indians") of its part of North America (so did Canada and every country in Central and South America) -- but you don't see me screaming for the annihilation of the United States of America or white, Euro-centric Christians.

Now, please, get over yourself and stop the HATRED.

Agnon Mema: I am sorry!

I know about the history quite well and some I have seen!

You don't have much idea of what is going currently all over the world!

Before Iraqi wars, war drum beatings were going on just like Syria. Where are the war mongering jokers now?

IRAQ WARS

Net results of Saudi, Kuwait, UAE, oil companies and their lobbyists directed 1991 and 2003 Iraqi wars are

WINNERS

1. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE and other rich ME sharks became richer by manipulating oil prices too high.

2. Oil companies and their lobbyists also benefitted. Oil prices, which were hardly $30 a barrel before 1991, shot up to $140 a barrel.

3. Since 2003, future traders, rating agencies, Wall Street and oil companies and their lobbyists transferred five trillion dollars from oil importing countries to oil exporting nations.

4. Rich Sunni ME sharks (Saudi Arabia in particular) funded Salaffi and Wahhabi mosques and Islamic radicals and terrorists all over the world. These Sunni Islamic radicals and terrorists are rampaging all over the world. World’s 80 percent of problems are due to them.

LOSERS

1. General US and European nations’ public. There have been high unemployment, cut in welfare measures, housing market collapse and more miseries. Since 2001, US spent three trillion dollars on Iraq and Afghan wars. Did the Saudis and co foot the bill?

2. Poor soldiers killed and injured and their families. In Iraq and Afghan wars 6300 soldiers were killed and 40000 injured.

3. High budget deficits and heavier borrowing. Many nations (PIIGS) and people are on line to bankruptcy!

4. Iraq will plunge into bloody sectarian civil wars leading to the creation of Shiastan, Sunnistan and Kurdistan. Here the losses are of Iraqis.

Here it comes. We have a Commander in Chief that has gotten over 1300 of troops killed in three years in Afghanistan with his policies. How many troops killed under Bush in eight years? 625.

Now, he is sending more for slaughter.

As a vet, I am completely offended that you can conveniently get your math so wrong P*ssed off. I don't give a rats ass how much you look to bash Obama, but have some respect and keep your lies about our troops to yourself. Thousands have died since we invaded Iraq, while you sit here taking prozac and talking crap. Pick up a weapon, go to Iraq or Afghanistan, and serve your country. Then you can talk about troop death.

Your as dense as depleted Uranium. Prove my numbers wrong numbskull. And I know of no vet that cry's like you do. So, your no vet, just some wanna be.

Here, have a list and embarrass yourself even further.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/iraq-casualties.htm

Read the names on the casualty list and count how many you decided to forget about just because bashing Obama was more important. I cry that I served this country so that you can have the right to be that stupid. I should have signed a clause that I will only do it if everyone I fight to protect educates themselves. You may "know" a vet, but you are too comfortable sitting in that little dark room feeling very safe to do it yourself. hec if you can put your money where your mouth is. You're just pissed off that mommy didn't make you breakfast. Embarrassed yet? Or shall I keep going.

whaddya a hair head smokin a fatty in Humbolt?? I said nothing about Iraq numbskull. The country I mention is "Afghanistan". What part of that do you not understand wanna-be??

I knew you would take that silly escape to your idiotic post. That and the name calling, as a last resort. You compared the number of deaths in Afghanistan under Obama compared to Bush, as if that were the only place our troops were giving up their lives. Technically we went into Afghanistan to fight a known enemy, while we went into Iraq for Bush's own gain, but that's besides the point. The point is you only mention Afghanistan because the numbers benefited your dumb ass post about Obama. You could care less to note that Bush sent our troops in to be slaughtered for oil.

That was a dumb ass post, and again, when you are ready to pick up a weapon, you can feel free to use our troop deaths as an excuse to bash Omaba. Until then, go get some tea and STFU.

You wanna come off as smart, but you are far from. And for ther record, I'm not crying. I LOVE giving ass wipes a hard time... LMAO!!!

People like this "P*ssed off" character is exactly why i believe in a woman's right to choice. As I would of hoped it was his mothers first decision... If ya know what I mean. The world has too many A-Holes.

See how effective I am p*ssed?? Am I still as dense as Uranium?

You see what I mean JPinMN? In his effort to bash Obama, he decided to exclude the thousands of our men and woman that will never come home to their family from his list of "who has the most deaths". Is that really what's important to you p*ssed?

How dare you be-little the victory of our armed forces you wanna-be! SHAME! Our people invaded a country of over 30 million, took their air-fields, ports, military bases, and defeated their armed forces in a 100 hours, and held that country for nearly a decade with only 4,000 dead.

No military force, I repeat, no military force in history ever performed like that. There are the best military ever fielded.

Be damn glad that the stolen valor act was knock down! You make me sick, you wanna-be!

Be-little??? We had no business being there in the first place!! And if Bush had any common sense, he would have known that the insurgents would plan gorilla and terror attacks against our troops after the invasion.

"only 4000 dead". Hmm you make my point oh so easy. Tell that the the "only 4000 families" that had to hear the bad news. But at least you are acknowledging their deaths now, so we are making progress. Are you still more concerned about how many troops died because of a politician?

And you can call me wanna-be all you want, but my medals, DD214, and Honorable Discharge from the United States Marine Corp says otherwise. Now call mom for some koolaid while you think of more silly responses.

or, you can admit you mispoke and didn't think that post through. But I'm not holding hope on that one.

You make me sick wanna-be! You spit on the graves of the fallen and be-little their glory that lives on in all Marines! If you were a Marine, you would know that!

Older Marines passed their glory and experiences to the younger ones. Marines only speak of their experiences with other Marines in hushed back rooms with alot beer!

They do not brag or advertise like you wannabe!

"Only 4000 dead". That's gonna stay with me as the remark of the day. The week even. Was that on Bush's banner when he flew in to claim victory?

Older Marines passed their glory and experiences to the younger ones. Marines only speak of their experiences with other Marines in hushed back rooms with alot beer!

LMAO!!! Please tell me where you get this incredible secret information from. There is nothing the Marine Corp hasn't done that you can't google. And there I thought your "only 4000 deaths" comment would be the stupidest. You've already beat it!! Where do you get this from, Anonymous News? LOL. Because that's what it sounds like.

Come on folks, I can't be the only one laughing at this one.

Are you picturing a "Marine Council of Elders"?? LOL. Cloaked figures passing on secret info to young recruits? You leave me way too many openings dude. And here I gave you some credit earlier that you might intelligently counter my reply.

Throw in the towel man. This denser than Uranium guy it too much for you.

@TFNY; you're wasting time on this guy. The "only 4000 dead" was enough for me.

Older Marines come to the Stumps and Pendleton (advanced training centers), to pass their combat experiences on to the Younger Marines. This wanna-be would know that if had any advanced training.

I was there at the stumps when some of the Iwo Marines came and spoke. 6,000 dead in one battle.

Make no mistake, all young Marines want trigger time. They do get PTSD, they are more than likely to wounded then killed. But, still they want to go.

They are trained, motivated, and the most polite people you would ever meet. I for one are proud of them.

This wanna-be is no Marine.

Another clue that he is no Marine is comment about Bush on the AC. This is a tradition in the Military to fly banners after a successful deployment. This guy is clueless. He was never in the military.

Who are you taling to? Who is "this guy"? Are you cowering away already? LOL

Even though Alan is right, that this really is a waste og time, I am actually enjoying being able to provide entertainment to others who watch your posts. They are hilarious, and obviosly made up nonsense.

But why don't we start again, make a new start... How many people died under Bush's watch?

I was in the Marine Corp, and I am 48 years old. Does that make me "older Marine"? Here, I will anticipate your asinine reply to that. No, not every person who was in the Marine Corp goes to your "stump" to train young recruits. I'm from the East Coast Einstein. I think you have Post Tramatic Stupidity Syndrome..

So tell me, where do you read your news, and get all this from? Entertain me with an answer.

@sparrow1

First;

sorry your thread post got so derailed. Second, no.. there would be no ALL out war. It would be over in a blink with Syria rolling over and playing dead. Assad will flee.

Second;

@ TFNJ

He said;

"I was there at the stumps when some of the Iwo Marines came and spoke. 6,000 dead in one battle."

Does this not say enough? I bet he attends airshows, flea market memorabilia shows, swap meets, and rallies for the 'WISH I WAS' crew. Probably dressed in some lime green camo too.

I feel bad for him though. His mommy probably didn't let him play with anything other than plastic knives till he was 13.

'And there I go, assuming he is that old.. my bad'

could you two sort it out somewhere else other than on my feed? thank you, respectfully sparrow 1

Hatchet, I think he's pretty much lying, and on that part he simply went to a Memorial Day parade where old vets spoke. But.. that's all I will say on that. Sorry Sparrow for the derail, I admittedly was having fun taunting him.

Back to your subject, this is a dangerous situation if Turkey shoots down a Syrian plane, or fires upon any Syrian troops. As someone else here said, an opportunistic "rebel" fighter can stage an attack on Turkish troops, drawing them in to the battle against Syria. Will it turn global? Hard to say right now, unless something else changes.

p*ssed off

Here it comes. We have a Commander in Chief that has gotten over 1300 of troops killed in three years in Afghanistan with his policies. How many troops killed under Bush in eight years? 625.

Now, he is sending more for slaughter.

Hey, bubba -- Bush started that war in Afghanistan, and the only reason more soldiers did not die there under his rule is because the Taliban and al Qeada were caught largely by surprise at that time. Plus, Bush didn't seem to even want to do anything to put a quick end to the doings in Afghanistan, which does explain the mis-placed reliance on drones, instead of ground forces -- and it was NOT 8 years, it was 7 years (Bush sent soldiers to Afghanistan in OCTOBER of 2001).

From the website http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/19/iraq-casualties-iraq-cost_n_92303.html

Below Is a detailed list of Iraq "by the numbers" released by Senator Harry Reid's office:
The Cost to Our Forces in Iraq

3,990: American troops who have died in Iraq since the start of the war. [icasualties.org, 3/17/08]

29,395: Number of U.S. service members that have been wounded in hostile action since the start of U.S. military operations in Iraq. [AP, 3/11/08]

60,000: Number of troops that have been subjected to controversial stop-loss measures--meaning those who have completed service commitments but are forbidden to leave the military until their units return from war. [US News and World Report, 2/25/08]

That's from CONGRESS, bubba, detailing how many U.S. soldiers were killed, wounded and otherwise DIRECTLY affected by the BUSH'S war in Iraq from the time it started to mid-2008 (Shrub's second term as President). Oh, and Bush ADMITTED that he lied about the reason for going into Iraq, too.

http://thinkprogress.org/report/iraq-timeline/#2008

AUGUST 21, 2006: Bush acknowledges Iraq had “nothing” to do with 9/11. [Fox News, 8/21/2006]

So much for any "Obama is worse than Bush" excuses.

p*ssed off

Marines only speak of their experiences with other Marines in hushed back rooms with alot beer!

Really? Try telling that to Jim Northrup, poet, author and U.S. Marine Corps veteran of Vietnam. I don't think he ever got that particular memo. Now go play soldier with your playground buddies.

p*ssed off

Older Marines come to the Stumps and Pendleton (advanced training centers), to pass their combat experiences on to the Younger Marines. This wanna-be would know that if had any advanced training.

I was there at the stumps when some of the Iwo Marines came and spoke. 6,000 dead in one battle.

And I was there at Edwards Air Force Base when Colonel Greg "Pappy" Boyington was at a local air show and talked to thousands of CIVILIANS who had never been in the Marine Corp about his WW2 combat experiences in the Solomon Islands. I guess Pappy never got that memo, either..............

And sparrow, it never helps to just ignore the fools who insist on spouting nonsense and lies. That fool desperately needed to knocked flat.

Now, about the situation between Turkey and Syria. Right now, it could go out with a whimper -- or it could lead to an all-out war involving the U.S., Russia, China, most of Europe and parts of South America. It is simply still too early to know for sure.

It seems like a show of force, both for their own country, and for Assad. As long as Assad doesn't do anything stupid, and it would be stupid at this point for him to attack anyone, this will fizzle. The danger here is either a lone general acting on his own, or rebels trying to bring Turkey in to the battle. Then Russia, saying its for peace keeping purposes, might involve troops.

Get off it, p*ssed.

p*ssed, go have a beer with AZcowboy. You'll enjoy each other's company.

Lol, Alan. Can you imagine? That conversation would drive a crazy person insane.

Hey p*ssed

AUGUST 19 2006: 1,249 days since the war began — the war in Iraq surpasses the length of WWII. [The Nation, 8/18/2006]

AUGUST 21, 2006: Bush: “We’re not leaving [Iraq] so long as I’m the president.” [CNN, 8/21/2006]

AUGUST 21, 2006: Bush acknowledges Iraq had “nothing” to do with 9/11. [Fox News, 8/21/2006]

That's from http://thinkprogress.org/report/iraq-timeline/#2008

I did not say they were used in Syria. They are used in Waristan, where women and children are being killed who's only crime is that they were in proximity to a target. It is a crime and murder. Jimmy Carter is right.

Hey p*ssed

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/19/iraq-casualties-iraq-cost_n_92303.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#Coalition_military_casualties

Read them both and then try to tell everybody how Obama is the one to blame for all the deaths.

Our technology against EMP is the best. It is done with minute Faraday Cages and Silicon Carbide Diode Shunts. We have hardened Lead Ceramic shielding on all our command and control commuters on our military equipment as well as most companies databases.

It would take a 10 Mega-ton weapon to take our grid the size of Chicago for example. But, if an enemy was going lite-off that big of weapon, they would do it in Lake Michigan; for reasons that I hope all but obvious...

LOL, ditto that brother!

p*ssed off

It would take a 10 Mega-ton weapon to take our grid the size of Chicago for example. But, if an enemy was going lite-off that big of weapon, they would do it in Lake Michigan; for reasons that I hope all but obvious...

Or just a simple 20-pound block of C-4. Hey, a simple lightning strike and a snow storm have done it.......... The rest of your rant is just that: A rant.

Of the Fat5, US and China have steadily improved relations and have reached many solid and substantive agreements. Even now they only fall just slightly short of a non-agression pact, although the treaties are momentous. Economy has gripped these two nations in a varied union which neither side wants deminished.

Russia is a shell of what it was and is pretty much castrated.

Relations between Russia and China are tendered at best.

There could be a total end to the conflict within hours if Turkey goes into Syria.

First the UN council will need to issue a statement, offer a position, give an ultimatum, and posit the players for the public eye.

That should happen by Monday, then the wheels can turn.

Our databases are protected and military assets are protected. The impact would not be worth the effort by an enemy simply because the retrobution from the Ohio's and X37B (military version), would be massive, and horrible.

@nchilltopper; so what you're saying is that despite the possibility, for the last seventy years no one has studied the scenario? Can you say "computer simulation"?

While I'm sure they've attempted such simulations, those things are severely limited by a lack of hard data from actual testing. Nothing of that scale can be predicted in every possible way. And then you throw human reaction into the mix...

Not in every possible way, no. But there is plenty of extant evidence from atmospheric tests/detonations, particularly those that took place at Christmas Island. Without going into depth (much less the physics), an atomic blast in space would likely not have much effect on the planet at all. Even the fallout from an intentionally dirty bomb would be widely diffused. More importantly, it would be impossible to control any effects, so there would be no reason for anyone short of a James Bond villain to set one off.

NASA has been exploring for years the possibility of using small atomic detonations to drive spacecraft, so there's not much fear of global consequences out there.

Hmm... interesting.

Thanks, Alan. I'm a fan of nuclear (everything), so it's always nice to hear more about the technology from those who have studied the topic more extensively than I.

It's hard, nay impossible, to keep up with everything. Even specialists miss developments in their own field. Even, dare I say, in geopolitics.

SF accountant

Hmm... interesting.

Thanks, Alan. I'm a fan of nuclear (everything)...

Ummmm.... Do you happen to live next to one of those nuclear reactors that "just happen" to sit on the bank (and the floodplain) of a major river -- or do happen to live more than 50 miles from the nearest nuclear reactor, as in on a totally separate floodplain? The answer is actually important, because when that major river "happens" to flood, the water will not pay attention whether there is a nuclear reactor in its path.

p*ssed off

Our databases are protected and military assets are protected. The impact would not be worth the effort by an enemy simply because the retrobution from the Ohio's and X37B (military version), would be massive, and horrible.

So you happen to be privvy to TOP SECRET information that is not available to the general public? Or is this just more posturing on the part of a puppet "patriot"?

"Do you happen to live next to one of those nuclear reactors that "just happen" to sit on the bank (and the floodplain) of a major river -- or do happen to live more than 50 miles from the nearest nuclear reactor, as in on a totally separate floodplain?"

I live nowhere near a nuclear reactor, actually (the "SF" stands for "San Francisco"), though I wouldn't mind it one bit. Nuclear power is my favorite nuclear "insert industry" (my least favorite would have to be nuclear war).

Of course, my knowledge of the industry and construction isn't extensive by any means, but I'd have to think they've managed to build nuclear plants capable of handling a river flood. A major tsunami is one thing, but there's only so much force a river can throw at you.

I'm about a hundred miles from the big Palo Verde nuclear plant in Arizona (we're not all AZcowboys here, folks) and every time the temperature breaks a hundred F, I'm glad for the electricity it provides.

Yeah we can say that this time we would be detonating a nuke in the vacuum of space, and that has never been done before, and we don't know the impact on the atmosphere layers, or even the magnetic shield, but Alan is right this can all be computer simulated and tested, with a good amount of certainty.

Personally, I am ok with Nuclear energy. I think with the safety protocols we have in place it is relatively safe. Yes anything can happen, I understand. But the benefits are great.