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Amr Nabil / AP
Egypt's President-elect Mohammed Morsi waves to supporters at Tahrir Square, the focal point of Egyptian uprising, in Cairo on Friday, June 29, 2012.
Today my best and oldest friend in Egypt told me she is going abroad to prepare paperwork in the event she decides to leave her country. It's very painful to even write that sentence and even harder to reread it. My friend is Egyptian, a devout Muslim, a patriot and yet she is preparing a plan B of escape, as so many others here have done, because she fears Egypt is turning into another Iran.
Post-revolution Egyptians to US: Stay out
Among her concerns, she mentions female self-appointed moral police, veiled from head to toe, admonishing other women that they will go to hell unless they dress conservatively. I arrived in Egypt a long time ago. To give you an idea just how long ago, NBC used an old telex machine and an even older poorly functioning landline to communicate abroad. My friend helped me master the essential skill of typing my message on a thin paper strip that I would then re-feed through the machine. Suffice to say, she was the most patient of teachers.
One of the most impressive sights to me at the time was seeing unveiled and veiled women walking down the street together, arm in arm, no judgment and no pressure to dress a certain way. In those days, most women were unveiled. As a foreigner, I always felt welcomed and only distinguished as an American by the fact that almost every cab driver would give me the thumbs up sign, upon learning my nationality, and say cheerfully, "America, number one!"
But Egypt is changing. Today, Egypt's President-elect Mohammed Morsi punctuated his first speech to the nation with a promise to work for the release of convicted terrorist, Sheikh Omar Abdul Rahman. Morsi addressed tens of thousands of Muslim Brotherhood and Salafist followers in Tahrir Square, taking an unofficial oath of office before the people who put him there. He described it as the real oath rather than the oath that he will take tomorrow before the general assembly of the Constitutional Court, rejecting the legal decision that dismantled an illegitimately constituted parliament and rejecting the military's additions to the constitution that would prevent him from controlling the military.
Egypt elections only the beginning of a transitional process
Morsi underlined several times that the people were the source of power and decision-making, not the institutions. Despite the fact that he initially addressed all Egyptians, Muslim and Christian, men and women, and all countries in the free world, Muslim and non-Muslim, his message was in fact directed to the hardcore constituency in front of him, fervent Islamists who would eventually like to see Egypt become an Islamic state governed by Islamic religious law.
Although President-elect Morsi repeated a message of love for all Egyptians, the vast majority of Egyptians have little in common with the Islamists who now crowd Tahrir Square.
"He handed power to the mob," lamented a Coptic Christian viewer on a talk show following the speech.
Egypt has elected a conservative president who has said he wants to impose Islamic law. How he will change the country remains unclear. NBC's Richard Engel reports.
Many felt it was improper to take the oath of office in Tahrir Square rather than before the Constitutional Court. "It's basically very amateurish," said Hisham Kassem, veteran publisher. "He made lots of mistakes to the point you think he's going to be a trial-and-error president... making a promise to hand over Omar Abdul Rahman, the first man to attack the World Trade Center. He will never be released. He is just going to annoy the Americans now," Kassem said.
"[Taking the oath of office in Tahrir] eroded his legitimacy. If he is banking on the street, it's not very savvy, his presidency will collapse in a year if he banks on that," Kassem added.
Analysis: Egypt's big turn under the Muslim Brotherhood
Morsi's impassioned speech is more likely to add to the atmosphere of uncertainty rather than quell it. By telling the crowded square that they were the source of power, Morsi thumbed his nose at the military generals who are trying to deny him control over the Ministry of Defense and the judiciary that has dissolved the parliament due to party members competing for independent seats.
Most Egyptians just want to get the country -- which many say is close to the brink of economic collapse -- back on track. They would rather hear about plans for restoring tourism, creating jobs and ending bottled gas and gasoline shortages than stoking anger against the military. Most would rather see Tahrir Square become a main thoroughfare, open to traffic. Instead, Morsi has further empowered the party faithful who are camped out there.
During the past week, the president-elect has reached out to those who are most apprehensive of a Muslim Brotherhood president, Egypt's eight million Coptic Christians, by meeting with their religious leaders.
"We are worried about the Islamization of Egyptian society," said Father Fafic Greiche, a church spokesman, in an interview with Vatican Radio. He also met with opposition parties and youth groups to discuss forming a new government that people hope will be representative of Egypt's women and secular and socially progressive groups.
The Muslim Brotherhood party also went on the offensive to stem fears women have about the rise to power of an Islamist. A party spokesman posted a message on the official website blaming other parties for a deliberate smear campaign by linking "individuals attacking women or girls or women's hairdressers claiming to be religious police" to the Muslim Brotherhood.
Female Member of Parliament Azza al Garf condemned the severe sexual attack on a British journalism student in Tahrir Square on the day Morsi was declared president and demanded perpetrators be brought to justice. Ironically, Al Garf herself has been sued by a women's rights non-governmental organization for wanting to reverse Egyptian laws that criminalize sexual harassment and female genital mutilation.
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Leave a Comment:
Your friend doesn't represent 95+% of Egyptians. She might be one of who benefited of oppression and injustice in the old system. MSNCB shame on you to post such a report which doesn't tell the truth at all!!
Liston to the feed back of the people all around the Arab countries which you ignored in this report and enought of false propaganda. Lies will not help any more!
@ Khalid
Egyptian voters were almost evenly split between the Muslim Brotherhood candidate and the former regime figure running for president, so don't lie about "one or two" who are deeply concerned about where Egypt is heading now. You're the one dishing propaganda.
Khalid- read your own news- Egypt Independent reported in toto what MB is really upto. Having Tatawi as Defense Secretary for how long?- The throngs at Tahrir demand the reinstatement of dissolved parliament and thus MB and Salafists. Spokesperson for Mohammed Morsy has been speaking different tunes to diffferent audiences. Egypt is in big financial trouble - young professional have a limited future-their working in Saudi Arabia and UAE is not guaranteed. Libya was a real fiasco for all Egyptians working there. Morsy now might appeal to those who wanted real democracy not ultra theocrats who interpret all things Islam a very different way from Al Azhar . Remember the laws the dissolved parliament passed. Now all people who disagree with the MB dicta have real concern for their dissent. Down the Nile.
You seriously expect anyone with a functioning brain to take your propaganda garbage at face value? Get real!
Khalid is a minority, so he expects the worst, and is just looking out for his own interests.
I feel sorry for him, but not for the reasons he would hope.
Once the door is cracked for Islamists to come in you will start to slowly see the change until reversal is too late. They will keep a low profile as they did from the beginning with the lie that they have no interest in office , and only have Egypts best interest at heart.lol. Now they have the presidency. When one starts out with lies the outcome can never be good, nor a true trust built from the people.
Islamists go by Allahs law and no other. They can sing til the cows come home that they are not going to impose religous law, and it will still never be true, as this goes against the very fibre of the region and the ones whom now rule Egypt.
Do not be fooled get the brotherhood out of politics or suffer isolation from the world in the future. They started out with a lie. Never forget that.
Basic Muslim Brotherhood Doctrine
MB By-Laws
MB Goals: "Insist to liberate the Islamic nation from the yoke of foreign rule…the need to work on establishing the Islamic State…the sincere support for a global cooperation in accordance with the provisions of the Islamic Shariah."
MB By-laws
"The Muslim Brotherhood is an International Muslim Body, which seeks to establish Allah’s law in the land."
@ coral taxi
cite your sources.
like this;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood
The Society of the Muslim Brothers (Arabic: جماعة الإخوان المسلمون, often simply: الإخوان المسلمون, "the Muslim Brotherhood", transliterated: al-ʾiḫwān al-muslimūn, ikhwan, el-ekhwan el-moslemin) is the world's most influential[1] and one of the largest Islamist movements,[2] and is the largest political opposition organization in many Arab states.[which?] Founded in Egypt in 1928 as a Pan-Islamic, religious, political, and social movement by the Islamic scholar and schoolteacher Hassan al-Banna, by the end of World War II the MB had an estimated two million members.[3] Its ideas had gained supporters throughout the Arab world and influenced other Islamist groups with its "model of political activism combined with Islamic charity work".[4] Its most famous slogan, used worldwide, is "Islam is the solution."[4]
The Brotherhood's stated goal is to instill the Qur'an and Sunnah as the "sole reference point for ...ordering the life of the Muslim family, individual, community ... and state". The movement officially opposes violent means to achieve its goals, although it at one time encompassed a paramilitary wing and its members were involved in massacres, bombings and assassinations of political opponents; notably Egyptian Prime Minister Mahmoud an-Nukrashi Pasha and the movement's own founder Hassan al-Banna.[4][5] The movement has been criticized by al-Qaeda for its support for democratic elections rather than armed jihad.
According to a spokesman, the MB believe in reform, democracy, freedom of assembly, press, etc.
The Muslim Brotherhood's candidate for Egypt's 2012 presidential election was Mohamed Morsi. The Egyptian cleric Safwat Higazi spoke at the announcement rally for the Muslim Brotherhood's candidate Morsi and expressed his hope and belief that Morsi would liberate Gaza, restore the Caliphate of the "United States of the Arabs" with Jerusalem as its capital, and that "our cry shall be: 'Millions of martyrs march towards Jerusalem.'"[49] Morsi himself did not echo these statements, and later promised to stand for peaceful relations with Israel.[50] In the First Egyptian elections after Mubarak, the candidate of the Muslim Brotherhood, Mohamed Morsi, won the election with 51.73% of the vote - over his competitor Ahmed Shafiq, the last prime minister under Mubarak's rule.[51]
Feel free to read the whole article and post. You might learn something.
evil muslim brotherhood in egypt, hill to every liberal egyptian, what ever support muslim brotherhood is evil like them,
muslim brotherhood and the terror fanatic muslims scared christains to go and vote in three states in egypt, and threaten them of burning their houses and kill their family if they go and vote, muslim brotherhood faked a lot of votes , evil in power watch every one
Egypt minorities would turn ............
Cairo - Egypt on June 29 / The EMC / instead of a simple /
Expect a researcher in political Islam Ismail Hosni become minorities in Egypt to the people of edema, under the rule of President Mohamed Morsi, who won the presidency for the radical Muslim Brotherhood.
The Hosni said in an interview for M / CNN / "will allow the minorities as marginal social participation decoration can face the world outside it. This will be done in accordance with the religious institutions of the minorities, which is the big winner in this transformation, where will give the state-sponsored political citizens from minority religious institutions of this, turning the religious leaders to the leaders of communities, their institutions and Vtaatdkhm bigger budgets and increase their grip on their subjects. "
And assessment of the promises President Mercy, for the appointment of a Coptic and a woman as Vice him and the formation of a coalition government, Hosni said that "the brothers are not familiar with, this is a general law that governs all the promises and pledges of President Mohamed Morsi!, They are adept at circumventing and transformation as we saw them doing since the revolution . they do not consider this defect as long as he was in for the call and for the establishment of an Islamic state. "
"We have a justification legitimate what Lesolle them veto any agreement that war is a hoax, and necessity compels, and warding off evil big Bamufsdh small duty, and keeping debt provider to save life, honor, money and a fortiori the word, covenant, agreement, and finally God forgives all sins except that associating ".
He believed Hosni that public freedoms; especially political and personal will be the focus of constant conflict and continuous, between the forces of civil society and the tide of political Islam ruling a private wing of the Salafi most radical and reactionary, Voediologih this current conflict fundamentally with the concept of human freedom and its paradigm, especially the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
He continued, "While the original to enjoy the rights freely in the field of thought, conscience and personal conduct Kachtaarh to his clothes or his food and drink, and that the only role of the law on the rule of his actions which interfere in with the other members of the community if it is to extract the business license or driver's license or opening a restaurant, we find ideology of political Islam, control rights, as control his actions, any attempt to codify what he eats and what does he drink and how playing and the types of art that can be expressed by himself, and shall establish a framework of intellectual and ideological, which shall proceed in accordance with them, as seen in Saudi Arabia, Iran and Sudan, as happened under the rule of the Church in the Middle Ages, where the governing control rights as other objects in the zoos. "
In response to a question for M / CNN / the existence of a deal between the Brotherhood and military power-sharing after the announcement of victory Mursi, he replied, Hosni "The deal took place since the revolution, and marched in multiple paths depending on the degree of tension between the two parties, in order to get each party to more advantages possible, the alliance does not prevent the conflict between the parties. "
He added, "I can say that the military may Raath case of arrogance and pride, that seized the group after the legislative elections, he took to restore the political balance in the country by" Qsqsh feathers Community "to dissolve parliament and constituent constitution, and forced to get off the street and beg the support of the national forces of different, which enabled him to imposition of conditions that preserve its interests before the hand over the reins of government in accordance with the desire of America. "
And his vision for the form of foreign relations of Egypt in the next phase, the axes of Iran and Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Hamas, Israel and America, Hosni explained that "as America is the official sponsor of the deal will be the relationship with her relationship with Mr. aftershock, which will reflect positively on the security of Israel, although the normalization of relations with Israel will not testify rapid development in the short term, where will the slogans of jihad, gently, but it will ensure at the same time tame Hamas and converted to the editor of Islam, and this is contrary of course with the national objectives Egyptian of payment for the establishment of a Palestinian state is strong, be a barrier geopolitical between us and Israel, and compression tool, Egypt can be used in accordance with their interests
Undo edits
Your translator fails miserably.
google translator it was an article i found it on face book
Glad to know you are not devisive, although I was curious, are you always the only one to vote up your posts?
Found on Facebook, you say?
Now there is a worthy giant for accuracy and fact !
Have you considered reading chewing gum wrappers?
@ hatchet; strategicengagement.com pdf.files.
I have read this doctorine quite a few times you can gaurantee it to be their doctorine. I found it in one minute, as I have used it before when they first were brought into the fray of the Arab spring. I found even more going back that fits this exact situation.
Here hatchet, not sure where you are coming from but let me drive my point home to you.
Muslim Brotherhood’s Five Phase Plan Phase One:
Phase of discreet and secret establishment of elite leadership. (Done)
Phase Two: Phase of gradual appearance on the public scene…establishing a shadow government. (already done)
Phase Three: Escalation phase, prior to conflict and confrontation with the rulers. Phase Four: Open public confrontation with the Government through exercising the political pressure approach…Training on the use of weapons domestically and overseas in anticipation of zero hour. It has noticeable activities in this regard. Phase Five: Seizing power to establish their Islamic Nation.
(Phase three unfortunately was put on the populous back to accomplish, all they had to do was sit back and watch and wait.)
"Lying is permissible if the goal is permissible…and obligatory is the goal is obligatory."
Umdat Salik, Islamic Sacred Law
, certified by key MB entities IIIT and Fiqh Council of North America as MB doctrine
(Theres your source buddy.)
(Oh and hatchet, dont use wiki as a source. Interesting info but not always fact.)
I use very many sources, and you are quoting a regional faction, and their statement as it may have been construed by whomever published that information.
The Muslim Brotherhood has different opinions and different courses ALL over the world.
What they felt in Egypt is not the same as what they felt in India, as example.
Additionally, consider your source.
""" strategicengagement.com """"
a URL devoted to conflict.
Each country's MB has a different outlook.
Looking at the evolution of the MB in Syria paints a very different picture, so there is NO USE to citing what the North American Council says.
Sure many fear " the Islamization of Egyptian society " -- all who are sane and rational. Egypt now has an Islamist president who calls for the release of an Islamist , Omar Abdel Rahman , who planned , plotted and attempted to commit mass murder in NYC by bombing and bringing down the World Trade Center.
This man, that the new president of Egypt wants released , called on Muslims to assail the West , " to cut the transportation of their countries , tear it apart , destroy their economy , burn their companies , eliminate their interests , sink their ships , shoot down their planes , kill them on the sea , air or land. " He issued a Fatwa that declared lawful in America the robbing of banks and the killing of innocents. And the new president of Egypt wants him released? Need I say more?
Egyptians that love freedom , equal treatment of women , the right to freedom of opinion and speech , the right to freedom to chose your faith or to chose no faith should be very afraid of this new President.
It might also be interesting to you that the URL you put forward does not exist...
It is a pander.
An outcome just what I expected a year and half ago. With that king of talk he going no where. Criticism of the US is one thing but to allow a criminal who killed US civilians go free is another. "Go ahead make our day".
@ hatchet; I suppose they use a different Quran also, right?lol
No matter what region they all fit this profile, low key with a far out agenda they do not profess openly in public. The doctorines for this region are actually even more for sharia eventually being imposed on all.
@ Gary
Do you know where the Syrian people have Rahman locked up?
Neither does anyone else who matters as far as US interests go.
I would rather have him let out of whatever prison he is in, as the bullseye on his forehead will be much easier to find.
Take a better look at who Morsi is, and what his history is.
The Arab world is already suggesting he is a USA puppet, while people in the US are saying exactly the opposite.
All Arabs are not Islamist, All Islamist are not zealot, all zealot are not terrorists.
Terrorism is a matter of action, and it is profitted by small and clandestine groups across the globe.
Belief in a religion does not constitute the desire to kill.
By Jewish faith, Jesus was just a man.
If he were the son of god, then god was an adulterer, because Mary was betrothed to Joseph and by jewish law it is the same as being married. God would have been guilty of the violation of his own cevenant with man.
If you were married, would you desire for your wife, or wife to be, to carry a child other than your own?
By Christian law, one of the commandments was (paraphrased) "Thou shall not kill"
in the same book littered with instance of god extending his wrath to kill whole lineages.
Does this make all Christians terrorists?
The whole idea is absurd.
What makes all the matters worse, Jews and Christians and Muslims, all believe in the SAME god, but deny their oppositions interpreter.
damn goofy if you ask me.
@ hatchet; OH MyLanta!! here www.strategicengagement.org/pdf-files/Basics_MB_Doctrine.pdf
In the end, it really has nothing to do with religion at all. At least not from the rule of the land.
It is a struggle for wealth and power. NOTHING MORE.
Religious beliefs are just a tool.
@ Coral Taxi
Do you realize where that came from?
That was an excerpt from a case placed before a judge in (if memory serves) the 1980's.
It was part of states evidence against a person they were trying to convict.
I am very glad that prosecuting attorneys never lie but ... (cough cough)
Also... note the bottom reference.
" Muslim American Society (MAS)
"Ikhwan members founded MAS." Top MAS official Shaker Elsayed
"MAS was founded as an overt arm of the Muslim Brotherhood."
US Prosecutors in US v Sabri Benkahla Appellate Case
Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC)
Formed out of the Islamic Center of Southern California – a Muslim Brotherhood entity. Primary founders of MPAC are Maher and Hassan Hathout – protégés of MB Founder Hassan al Banna.
Hassan al Banna ( a teacher ) founded the Muslim Brotherhood.
When he turned radical and violent, they executed him.
@ hatchet; O.K lets go directly to the Egyptian MB.
As long as Pres. Morsi upholds the "status quo" which is Peace with Israel, Dialogue with USA, respect for the Women rights, and religious freedom. Then it will bring a stability the Egypt hasn't seen in a decade. If this is smoke and mirrors (I believe it is ) then after the US elections in Nov., I believe we will see the results. I fear though that over time they will have a semblance of order while secretly developing a power base for the MB that will grow... shake hands with Iran and flex influence over the Middle East. I pray I'm wrong.
Well, if the United States wants to be considered a "Christian" nation, I see no reason why Egypt can't be a nation of Islam.
flame 77--7-----maintain respect for women rights? anwar sadat and his wife jihan tried many years ago to propose legislation establishing rights for women. jihan sadat was only moderately successful.she provided vocational training/ aid and that was by providing sewing machines to divorced women abandoned by their husbands. if i were a woman in egypt with means to escape i'd be planning an exodus pretty quick.
@ Coral Taxi
LOL.
No clue where that passage came from (again), but I promise not to come back to that post when it turns out to be false.
It WAS funny though.
Folks, skip the blather, and cut to the chase.
Islam is a terrorist cult; paternalistic, mysogynistic, and violent to the extreme. We all know it.
The MB will lie, cheat, steal, kill, do whatever it takes to take over a country. Just read their diatribe. Read the Koran. The Hadith. It's all just kill the infidel.
What bothers me are the the puling politicians who will suck up to any organization that supports them, and the brainless public who doesn't bother to learn from history.
Just get on the cattle car folks, and get that shower at the end of the trip.
In the mean time, some other folks will be attending to business.
momus2009-----the united states is not a christian nation. christianity at present outnumbers all other religions but it will never be the official religion of our country. this country will never have a government mandated religion thanks to the wisdom of the framers of our constitution. with every news article i read about religious extremists i say a silent thank you to benjamin franklin and the boys who knew what they were doing.
@ granny22
Damn straight !!! and I don't care if Franklin was a child molester and drug addict, he could write a mean declaration.
@ Coral Taxi
(PSSSST....... )
The Investigative Project Controversy
Emerson is also the founder and Executive Director of The Investigative Project, a large intelligence archive on Islamist groups around the world.[2] He started the Project in 1995, after the broadcast of Jihad in America. Since September 2001, Emerson has testified before committees of both houses of Congress many times on terrorist funding and on the operational structures of groups including al-Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, and Islamic Jihad.[2] He has also given interviews debunking 9/11 conspiracy theories, and is a contributing expert to the Counterterrorism Blog.[33]
In March 2004, Newsweek ran an article entitled "How Clarke 'Outsourced' Terror Intel; the Former Counterterrorism Chief Tapped a Private Researcher to Develop Intelligence on Al-Qaeda. The Disclosure Sheds New Light on White House Frustrations with the FBI". The article detailed the high level of reliance Clarke placed on Emerson's information, in lieu of that of the FBI.[34]
The Investigative Project is registered as a non-profit charity. However, in 2008 the Investigative Project transferred $3.49 million to Emerson's for-profit company (SAE Productions). Ken Berger, the head of Charity Navigator (a non-profit charity watchdog) criticized the Investigative Project as being a front organization collecting funds for SAE Productions.[citation needed] According to USA Today, the Investigative Project solicits money by telling donors they're in imminent danger from Muslims.[35] A spokesperson for Emerson's company responded, saying that the actions were legal and designed to protect workers from death threats.[36]
Egypt is not Iran. Iran has considerable income from oil. Egypt does not and the oil they have is way under developed. They subsist on Western aid. $100 of millions of dollars of it and European tourists which is 10% of their economy. Their military is US equipped. Changing over back to Russian equip would cripple it. The Brotherhood fears Al Qaeda. They both have the same goal controling the Muslim world as does Iran. Then there is the whole Sunni Shia thing. The revolution was brought about by the educated they want little to do with hard line Islam.
@ hatchet;
Hassan al Banna ( a teacher ) founded the Muslim Brotherhood.
When he turned radical and violent, they executed him.
There is much irony here doncha think? Bottom line is they are going to execute Allahs will over and beyond the laws of the country unless they are taken out of power.
Morsi has 4 years then there is a new election.
Here in the states some people went all crazy in fear when the tea party took over the GOP.
It is called Democracy and it is messy give it a chance.
Look back at American History. Our ancestors stood in lines while their relatives shot at them and waited for their turn to shoot. Like we have any room for saying others are stupid. lol
We all poop dude.
The credo of the Muslim Brotherhood is as follows:
God is our objective, the Quran our law, the Prophet our Leader, Jihad our Way and Death for the Sake of God our highest aspiration.
Democracy? Sharia law isn't exactly democratic when it comes to homosexual, females or infidels who in the main are either Christian or Jewish. Muslim males will do just fine under such a 'democracy,' the rest of the country, well, not so much.
@ Coral Taxi
Yes... incredible irony
I guess they found themselves faced with the fact that the founder was likely to get a lot more people killed if he had kept on his ways, so they chose violence to eliminate him to avoid much greater violence.
It really becomes necessary to understand what the Muslim Brotherhood is right now. Who leads the factions of it becomes very important.
That the MB will force out Al-Queada, Taliban, Hammas, Hezbollah, and any other organization that prefers violence is most significant.
Sure it is much the same power struggle, but at least it is a democratic one.
Mygirl
You are jumping to a conclusion. That is speculation.
Time will tell.
Personally I don't think the Egyptian military will stand for that.
@ MD; This is not a matter of jumping to conclusions. You must understand that they were voted in and even though it might not be whom we like to see lead Egypt,we will be completely against the military not supporting this new government or acting against.
We are not jumping to conclusions on the MBs motives. They have a duty as Muslims to enact Sharia and they will believe me. This is not my opinion this is fact, no matter what comes out of their lips. I have already given example in my first post as to how they lied about their perogatives saying they would stay "behind the scenes " and help restore order in Egypt,and treat everyone equal. Hahaha hahaha ! Now they are in the top spot.
This is like saying they are going to throw the Quran out the door when it comes to ruling Egypt.(not gonna happen) Egyptians better figure out how to use Democracy for their freedom, not their religous needs. Allah comes first and you will not hear otherwise on the streets.ie
They need rule of law, not rule of Allah
@ Hatchet;
Very true. But just the start of Democracy never smooth for any country including ours. The women could be put back years for something many gave their lives for which is freedom from tyranny.
Wow that is pretty good will they use the same kind of tactics as you just did?
Are you a Politician? Salesman?
The south wanted to keep black men, women and children as slaves. We turned out perfectly imperfect.
@md;
Neither, I have been following the ME since I was 13(31yrs). Just telling it like it is and probably will be.lol
I could go much deeper on the MB, but I believe I have made my case.
@granny22 I agree with you... just hoping and praying... Egypt maybe the catalyst that could give Iran not just a "companion" but a "launching pad" to drag the Middle east in more turmoil. Israel could be goal so that Iran could appear "innocent"
We believed what we wanted to...in the "Arab Spring." But us Inter-nuts kept saying from the start that it was nothing but an extremist Islamic winter.
Arab spring...just a media-invented phrase. Wonderful isn't it?
And we were to do what exactly when this all happened?
As seventh century Sunni Saudi Salaffis, MB Islamic extremists are behind this Arab Spring/Arab Winter, just watch the slow march of Egypt worse than Iran!
Many will notice, Iran is still better than Egypt a carbon copy of Saudi Arabia!
Now war mongers can add one more nation to their long list of Syria, Iran and others!
and this suprises anyone..... Get Real.....
So they fear islamization, do they? If so, they're only fearing the inevitable. We can now count Egypt as the latest Islamic caliphate. More will follow.
Islamization of American society. If this doesn't make you sick I don't know what will.
American Muslims Stone Christians in Dearborn, MI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnJBW49afzg&feature=share
What a bunch of stupid @!$%#s. Both sides.
In case you missed the post below.
@ TMelora
Good for the ARABS !! It was their festival that the RADICAL CHRISTIANS elected to impose themselves upon and slur the people, and their faith.
Misguided faith, is all FAITH.
They simply got what they asked for, and then posted to YT to incite further extremism.
So nice to see people using their religion to incite violence and discord,
and thank you for being a tool.
@ T Melora
Religious nuts of any religions scare me the same way. Not just Muslim, I heard Christian told me many times that I will be burn in hell if continue to support women's rights and gay's rights.
It doesn't help when I traveled across Ohio and three guys at the gas station who hold guns come to me and hand me a paper warning me about Muslim and said "they will burn in hell".
I really am ashamed to reply back that "Yeah, they will burn in hell" because I don't want them doing something bad to me if I say otherwise.
Hatchet ----- No one has a right to suppress freedom of speech with physical violence. The Muslims in Dearborn were engaging in thuggery by attacking those who expressed a different opinion of Islam. That is called freedom of expression under our constitution. The Muslims have a rilght to express theilr opinion of Christianity withour being physically attacked by anyone, also.
@ Gary
Under Article 1 it is freedom of expression, not just free speech.
If I go to a funeral at your families expense, open the coffin, and urinate upon the deceased family member you have within, by your reasoning it is OK.
This is because I have the right to express my disbelief in funerals, and my objection to the wasted real estate where that person would be buried, as it could be used to grow food to feed the poor.
Glad to know you are that open minded.
It may surprise me if the rest of your family were OK with it though, and one or two of them just might react.
Hatchett, your examples are specious. Freedom of Speech and Assembly does not include assault with eggs, rocks, or spit. The f'in Muslims in that video are criminals and I think the Christians should sue Dearborn for unequal treatment.
Bad analogy, Hatchet. It's not even close to holding a sign or speaking out. I don't know where you live but in this country there are laws against defiling a corpse. You would be arrested and jailed plain and simple. No lawyer would be able to use a free speech defense and convince a jury to let you off. By your reasoning, I could shoot and kill you and claim freedom of speech just because I don't agree with your politics. Again, very bad analogy, sir. Engage brain before putting fingers onto keyboard.
@ captn curtass
Thank you.
It was the perfect analogy and your response proves the point.
Going to an Arab festival and telling a large crowd of Arabs (some of which were Muslim) that they are lower than dog@!$%# and will go to hell is viewed by them as being as offensive as peeing on a corpse.
Additionally, you are incorrect in your assertion that urinating on a corpse counts as 'legally' defiling it. (in the state where I am from)
The PRETEND christians went there to cause exactly what occured, and all you are shown is what THEY chose to show you. IT IS PROPAGANDA nothing more
Additionally, the Arabs and Muslims were being targetted (obviously since it was an ARAB festival) and their right to practice their religion was impeded upon.
The PRETEND christians violated their right to freedom of religion. Civil rights charges could have been filed.
Freedom from religious persecution (ORIGINAL)
We the people ...
If it is not right for one, it is not right for ALL.
Hatchet 101: You can plan one more nation Egypt to attack in addition to Syria and Iran. Here you will need bigger plan!
When most don't care for religion much these days, followers of Islamic cult, especially Sunnis, are fast marching backwards to their seventh century desert tribal days of rapings, lootings, killings and genocides of non-Muslims.
We see Muslims inventing problems in most of the non-Muslim nations.
Even in the US, we can notice these actions! Even travel has become miserable these days!
When Muslims form more than five percent, downhill march starts.
Muslims are inventing problems in Myanmar as in Thailand, Philippines, India and other places.
When they form more than 30 percent then it is Sudan, Somalia, Nigeria, Lebanon (few decades back)
In Muslim majority nations, they kill each other!
Better wake up before it is too late on inventions of problems by followers of Islamic cult!
Thanks to Arab spring and the West for brought down Maburak...!!! Now Egypt got extremist running the country...!!! Soon they will be saying "Death to America" just like Iran !!!
@ AC
Thank you for keeping your head in the sand, it relieves your proctologist from having to remove it.
Morsi was born on 20 August 1951 in the Sharqia Governorate, in northern Egypt. He received a Bachelor's and Master's Degree in engineering from Cairo University in 1975 and 1978, respectively. He then received his PhD in engineering from the University of Southern California in the U.S. in 1982. He was an Assistant Professor at California State University, Northridge from 1982 to 1985. In 1985, he returned to Egypt to teach at Zagazig University.[
Morsi served as a Member of Parliament from 2000 to 2005; he was elected as an independent candidate because the Brotherhood was technically barred from running candidates for office under President Hosni Mubarak. He was a member of the Guidance Office of the Muslim Brotherhood until the founding of the Freedom and Justice Party in 2011, at which point he was elected by the MB's Guidance Office to be the first president of the new party.
@ TMelora
Good for the ARABS !! It was their festival that the RADICAL CHRISTIANS elected to impose themselves upon and slur the people, and their faith.
Misguided faith, is all FAITH.
They simply got what they asked for, and then posted to YT to incite further extremism.
So nice to see people using their religion to incite violence and discord,
and thank you for being a tool.
Hatchet --- I hope the new Islamist president's degree is not in chemical engineering. By the way, why do you insist on calling everyone with which you disagree some name , like tool? Do you think that is a persuasive tactic?
His degree was in mechanical engineering.
"tool" is not a name... name would indicate a noun, as in being a proper place or thing.
in this instance, "tool" is a transitive verb which requires the concept of the entire precept of the afore mentioned action.
Hatchet, You can quote anybody or anything but it doesn't change the obvious facts. This is all about religion, from Afghanistan to Zimbabwe . So regardless of the deflections and the PC crap the truth is glaring. Islam is a outdated, dangerous ideology and regardless of what your selling rational people aren't buying it. Morsi should be a wake up call to all naive enough to believe there would be democracy of any form in Egypt. Egypt's destiny is to become yet another oppressive islamic State and their only hope is the Military. A lot of blood is going to spill in the streets of Egypt one side killing for an extreme allah the other for a moderate allah, either way allahs smack in the middle, and that makes it religious.
@ njmick
My personal belief is that your prediction will be incorrect.
If Morsi is to be successful, however, he will need to rapidly gain support from fellow nations.
A nearly even political divide is never a good thing, but it is survivable if handled in a manner consistent with the wishes of the majority, inside and out.
I believe over time he will win over his country and it's peoples, as well as the support of Israel and it's people.
After reading all his posts, I have come to the realization that a rose by any other name is a rose and a hatchet by any other name is a troll. I recognize his writing style. It's a different name from the last time I encountered him, but the writing style is the same and quite unmistakable.
Well hes off to a good start calling for the release a terrorist. I honestly wish that I was wrong also,but islam is tried and true and there will be bloodshed. Since the first day of the revolt in Egypt the only substantial thing coming out was their distaste for Israel, and that hasn't changed. No my friend islam is about violence, and violence there shall be. An even divide in a Democratic society means a lot of bickering and readying for the next election, to the Arabs its suicide bombings, in the name of allah of course. Time will tell.
captn curtass
I kind of got that feeling too.
Nice try, but I am Hatchet101, have been the same for over 20 years, and your deflection is useless.
In reading through this long, long discourse of back and forths, a couple of things jumped out. For one thing Hatchet disdains some of other's sources while quoting wiki for his source. My grandson was not allowed to use wiki as a source for a term paper because anyone could post on there and too much false info was included. Second, I don't know where Hatchet lives but his many Islamic talents and wisdoms seem to be wasted on the USA. He needs to live in a Muslim ruled country. And thirdly, he is either blowing smoke or he has no idea about Islamic theology and the reasons behind it. If you would read the Christian Bible that you so obviously disdain, and get someone to explain OT history to you, the whole Muslim-Jewish-Christian conflict would be revealed and you would know both the history behind it and the future outcome. Anyone who believes Islam will ever be content to peacefully coexist with other beliefs has his head in the sand.
Hatchet ------Democracy is more than a mechanical election. The spirit of democracy requires a respect for basic human rights like freedom of speech , press , religion and equal rights for women. That's why we have a Bill of Rights that protects and fosters those rights for everyone, not just the majority. This new president and his millions of supporters is an enemy of these rights because Muhammad was an enemy of them. The Muslim Brotherhood will never support these basic rights, without which a so-called democracy is a hollow and meaningless fraud.
Hatchet 101: Sir, hope I have your permission to make this post!!!
By not looking beyond your window just like G. Bush, you are going to bury many in the sand!
Israel will have a new "friend" right next door. Netayahos can take a break from Iran!
Can we at least bring down oil prices by removing sanctions on Iran?
Every intelligent Egyptian ( and there must be at least a few ) should be frightened now! Allowing the muslims to take over and bring the hate and subjugation of that vile, cruel culture to your country is no one's fault but your own! Foolishly voting for the muslim brotherhood will be the end of your freedom, your safety,and your nation and Egypt will soon sink into the same pit as every other hate filled muslim country. Every American and civilized citizen of this earth should stay away from Egypt, let the muslims rot.
Jack --- The shocking reality is that our government sends millions and millions of our tax dollars to Egypt. That we allow that to go on says a lot about us.
Yep that would be the common sense consensus. A fair trade agreement for all the oil producers of the region might be be a bushel of grain for a tanker of oil. Those that don't have oil to export , too bad. Terrorist problem solved.
Another two-thumbs up for obama's foreign policy. Remember... these are"good people" according to obama. Of course he also said that the Muslim Brotherhood was a minor faction with less than one percent support.
Obama had MB in WH- along with a AQ-affiliated member of Nour (Salafist) who was on State dept.'s Wanted Terrorist list. Also he had a powwow with WH /Nat.sec. Mike McDonough asking him to release the Blind Sheikh Rahman of World Trade Center i bombing sitting in fed.prison to him and MB to continue his sxentence in Egypt. McDonough referred him to Dept.of Justice. This is Obama's Egypt policy- question will be are the Copts,women and dissenters better off now under Obama policy ?
A better question would be why you'd take some obscure ethno-religious group (Copts) that lives halfway around the globe and use that to gage the overall credentials of the President of the United States. Why not take the Kurds, or the Kosovars, or the Irish for that matter...why should the Copts enjoy this privileged status in determining the relative merits of Obama's policies? Freaking stupid.
Travis ----- Because Copts are in Egypt and aren't Muslims and we are discussing the developments in Egypt.
If the Islamists have their way, Egypt will become just another theocratic dung heap, just like most of the rest of the Middle East. The Egyptian people have the power to prevent that, or to permit it. If they permit it, then their fate will be richly deserved, and they will garner no sympathy from the rest of the world when the clergy becomes their de facto government and dictates their culture. I really, really don't care what they do. It's on them, and nobody else.
Today Cairo. Tomorrow Detroit.
Governments serve only themselves, however they start out. Some are more benevolent to their populaces than others. By definition no religious government system is benevolent. They all make laws and rules against anyone or anything that does not further their legitimacy to power. It will be true in Egypt as it is in Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Vatican and Israel. While purporting to be righteous, religion may be the greatest curse man ever suffered.
Also it's salvation. What do you have to offer that is better? Anarchy?
`The wolf`s tail is showing through his sheep suit. Soon the Bro will begin to eat alive all its opponents who don`t share their police state,mafia style jihad.plans. Iranian style darkness will soon becoming out of Egypt if the military doesn`t safeguard the country which is much more than one perverted Brotherhood party.!
OK, as I understand this article, we are to sympathize with Egyptians leaving their country because they fear the Muslim Brotherhood will bring Islamization. Yet that same concern (not just fear, but concern) by American citizens about their country is at best xenophobia and at worst racism? I missed the fine line of their fear's difference.
Morsi is a great example why these people need a military dictatorship. The Islamist will take the country back hundreds of years and put a knife in tourism and capital development. The backward of Islam don's care. Morsi will be gone in a few months and the military and the secular intelligentsia will take over to save the country.
William, I hope you're right! Morsi has already proven that he is not a presidential material when he took the unofficial oath to challenge the military and the rule of law, and when he has promised his followres that he will work or whatever on releasing Omat rahman! It's the mobs' rule he and his follwers want to establish in Egypt! The military'd better stop this madness before Egypt's economy collapses!!they'd better do it before he takes over the office!!
Another journalist is sexually attacked in Egypt. The Egyptian men are all animals which is why Egyptian tourism has collapsed. When Egyptian men learn how to treat women, tourists MIGHT return to Egypt (not a hope in hell). Hence Egypt's economy will continue its very rapid collapse and Egypt will become a failed state like Somalia. All the Egyptian men, animals that they are, will be in the streets begging with little begging bowls. Nothing can stop Egypt's total collapse.
Common sense ----- Watch out for our government increasing the amount of money it sends Egypt , which in the millions and millions of dollars already. We may need a tax increase on Americans to help Egypt out.
There is plenty of examples of what happens to countries who elect islamiststo run their governments. If Egypt chooses to go down that route then it's on their heads and no one elses. Blaming the US or Europe for "letting it happen" is just a waste of time. I hope they enjoy the future they're creating.
This is a very sad time for Egypt, and its peoples have my sincere sympathy. War will soon be their only economic stronghold, and they will fall into the same abyss that is Iran. A theocracy ruled by hate filled tunnel visioned clergy with only one goal in mind. Egypt's economy will collapse, there will be across the board genocide against vast segments of their populace, women will be treated as cattle and worse, education will be eliminated and America will be considered the root of all problems and evils as a result of Egypts own choices or lack thereof.
Tom,
"War will soon be their only economic stronghold, and they will fall into the same abyss that is Iran."
I'm not sure that is quite what you meant to say. War is not an economic stronghold. War destroys economies. You might want to rephrase that somehow.
I stand corrected Mickey. I should have said either false economic stronghold such as the military industrialist believe, or war as the only purpose of it's government and it's people. The fact that war destroys economies is something we should have all learned here in the US from what we have seen particularly in the last decade.
Tom,
"The fact that war destroys economies is something we should have all learned here in the US from what we have seen particularly in the last decade."
That is so true, my friend. We have spent trillions on these wars over the past 9 years. I don't know how much exactly, but I saw an article not too long ago estimating that these wars have cost us something like 2.5 trillion dollars.
Hey, they asked for this through their votes. Now they can reap the benefits of their decision- enjoy!!
NOW they fear Islamization? after all that has gone on, the killings, the rapes of western women, the intimidation of potential voters...now they fear what was an obvious result of the "arab spring" in the first place. Did anyone think that Egypt was going to end up more free than they were before the "Revolution"? This has always been about islamization, and anyone who denied it a few months ago has now had their credibility successfully challenged.
Obama is still grumbling the Brotherhood promised he would get to be Pharaoh.
Number ONE thing on my "bucket list", "go to Egypt, see Giza, Saqqara, Valley of the Kings, and Abu Simbel", just got scrapped. Damn!
John, don't scrap your bucket list. Just do it another way. Join the US Military and you will get a chance to see all of those places. One battle at a time.
Appreciate the idea, but I'm afraid the only countries below Egypt that I won't travel to are Iran, North Korea, and France.
PS: Four of my sons were in the Army and saw Iraq and Afghanistan "one battle at a time". They don't recommend it as a vaction.
critical times hard to deal with, will be here. man dominating man to his injury.
Thats a popular line with the JW's and in most ways also true!
My personal belief is that Muslims and Sharia laws are completely against Christian beliefs that I believe we were all taught in school. That said ,please look around the European continent where at least 6-7 countries now have to deal with Sharia laws that brings us back to treat women as slave and inferior to men.All we have to do is to look back in history and the Muslims invasion and we will see a perfect example how Southern Europe was invaded and conquered by the Mussulman that enslaved many mediterranean countries during the Eight century to the 14th hundreds.We will learn what the religion of Mohammed created in these countries they conquered.We can see the results even today especially in Southern Europe.So, be informed in your decisions and see what is really there.So we have to limit the beliefs that we have about Islamic faith, although as Americans they are entitled to their beliefs like I am.
Angelo ---- The only problem is that Islam believes that you have no right to live under another system. Intolerance of diversity of religion view is their foundational value. If they become strong enough , in any society , they will impose an Islamic government and Islamic law on everyone. They have to do this as the Koran directs it.
gary, that is so true. And we have let them in the back door by electing a pres. with such strong Muslim ties. Now see how he courts them. America had better wake up and set a watchman.
"MANY FEAR ISLAMATION...?
WOW...... WHAT A STRETCH...!...!...!
That's like saying, "We fear te Sun "MAY" rise in the East tomorrow"
One of the best leaders of the 20th century (Anwar Sadat) was assasinated by people who's views parallel this new government. President Sadat (an Egyptian general) sought peace and, in the face of all other Muslim countries calling for the elimination of Israel, signed the Camp David accords which was his death sentence. Egypt hating the U.S. is not new for those of us that remember the days of pro-Soviet Gamel Abdul Nasser.
Good piece of history John. It is so volatile over there and has been for ages, that even Sadat was slain despite his repore among the people. Morsi studying and then teaching engineering here is the US was simply part of his keeping his enemies close. To learn as much as he could about those with which he holds the greatest contempt in the place where he has the greatest contempt, you have to admit is genius...and insanity. Imagine the conversations had between Morsi and Ahmadinejad.
How much oil does Egypt have ? There must be a reason as to why we have not bombed them.
There are too many artifacts under the Egyptian sands to bomb them.
Satan laughing, spreads his wings...
He has a degree in Engineering so clearly the man hates science and mathematics, clearly. I mean, what better way to express your contempt for math and science than to study them vigorously - and not only study them but also teach them - for 7 years of your life!!!
No doubt that this Morsi character is a bitter enemy of science and desperately wants to push his country back into the 7th Century. Surely the apocalyptic visions of the bigotted conspiracy theorists who frequent MSNBC.com are way more in line with science and what is rational. Thank you all for expressing such rational opinions and being such great lovers of science and mathematics all of you!!! Clearly this is a very highly educated lot of people!!!
Travis , let's just hope it's not a degree in chemical engineering. That's an area of science Islam seems to embrace completely, right?
You already tried to make a joke about Moslems and Chemical Engineering earlier in the thread. Child, the joke wasn't even witty to begin with - no need to repeat it a second time.