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Handout / Reuters
Demonstrators protest against Syria's President Bashar al-Assad after Friday prayers in Habeet, near Idlib, Friday
Updated 1:30 p.m. ET: Major Western and Arab powers meeting in Geneva on Saturday adopted a watered-down version of special envoy Kofi Annan's Syria peace plan that leaves open whether President Bashar al-Assad can be part of the transition government.
"It is for the people of Syria to come to a political agreement." Annan said. "I will doubt that the Syrians who have fought so hard to have independence ... will select people with blood on their hands to lead them," he said.
U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said the deal in Geneva "paves the way" for a post-Assad unity government. Assad should hear "loudly and clearly" that his days are numbered, she said. "It is now incumbent on Russia and China to show Assad the writing on the wall," Clinton said.
Russia had refused to back a provision that would call for Assad to step down, insisting that outsiders cannot order a political solution for Syria.
Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov underscored the point that the plan does not require Assad's ouster, saying there is "no attempt in the document to impose on the Syrian people any type of transitional process."
Lavrov warned that there is an attempt to provoke a spiral of violence and incite sectarian hatred in Syria.
A transitional governing body could include members of the current government and opposition and would be formed by mutual consent, Reuters reported. The pact calls for constitutional reform and free and fair elections, Reuters reported.
Annan said the Syria action group nations did not set a time for its next meeting.
On Friday, Syrian troops shelled a suburb of Damascus, killing an estimated 125 civilians and 60 soldiers, Syrian human rights activists said. The uprising in Syria since March of last year has killed some 14,000 people.
Syria on Saturday retook control of the restive Damascus suburb of Douma, where fleeing residents said most civilians had cleared out.
Foreign ministers from Western powers and Arab countries attended the meeting convened by Annan to try to forge a common strategy to end the 16 month-old conflict in Syria but differences remained over the fate of Assad.
Clinton held talks on Friday night in St. Petersburg with Lavrov but failed to resolve differences, Reuters said.
Russia, Assad's main ally, insists that any transition plan must not be imposed on Syria by foreign powers.
French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius, arriving for the talks, told Reuters that it was “absolutely essential that the violence stops and that a political transition can begin.”
“Kofi Annan made reasonable propositions and I hope that they will be upheld and that's the point of today's discussions,” he added.
Syria rebels: Assad forces bombard towns as 170 tanks mass near city
Hopes have centered on persuading Russia — Syria's most important ally, protector and arms supplier — to agree to a plan that would end the four-decade rule of the Assad family dynasty.
But the Russians want Syria alone to be the master of its fate, at a time when Assad's regime and the opposition are increasingly bitterly polarized.
A bomb targeting Syria's highest court has exploded in Damascus. NBC's Bill Neely reports.
"Ultimately, we want to stop the bloodshed in Syria. If that comes through political dialogue, we are willing to do that," said Khalid Saleh, a spokesman for the Syrian National Council, a coalition of Syrian opposition groups based in Istanbul, Turkey. "We are not willing to negotiate (with) Mr. Assad and those who have murdered Syrians. We are not going to negotiate unless they leave Syria."
Turkey sends military convoys toward Syrian border
International tensions also heightened last week after Syria shot down a Turkish warplane, leading to Turkey setting up anti-aircraft guns on its border with its neighbor.
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Why would Russia and China help? They believe it is the right of the state to slaughter their own people...
usa is slaughtering thousands of innocent women and children every year in Iraq and Afghanstan. Why isn't the world stopping you? Answer: you have bigger guns!
Hello folks, Syria is not Libya. Waging an all-out war against Syria is a further step towards WW III. People who support a UN or NATO intervention in Syria are by extension in favor of World War III.
We are broke, our allies are broke but yet we can somehow come up with the taxpayer funding to invade another country? Now why is that? Middle class and the poor get the bill for the war and the rich get richer for funding and supplying all the materials used in war. Not only do they (Halliburton, Bechtel, GE, Northrop Grumman, etc.) benefit from the armaments but from the rebuilding of the cities and buildings they bomb. It’s a “win win” situation for the purveyors of war and everybody else loses and yet you have the sheeple buying into the propaganda they use to incite support for war.
In the past year, Syria has seen a massive infusion of arms and terrorists from outside its borders. At the same time, the U.S. has attempted to manipulate world public opinion and exploit the chaos it unleashed in Syria.
The U.S., NATO, Saudi Arabia, and Israel continue to stir up trouble in Syria to get a larger war going in the region. The U.S. and their allies have openly admitted to funding the rebels. They are not only supplying armaments they are supplying U.S. paid mercenaries.
Reports of another “false flag” are surfacing that opposition rebels are planning to use chemical weapons and then blame the atrocity on Assad’s regime. Rebels attempted to stage a similar ‘false flag’ recently when British Channel 4 reporter Alex Thomson was purposefully led by rebels into a trap whereby it was hoped he would be killed by government troops and his death used as a propaganda stunt.
Washington’s goal is to build up an international consensus to carry out a larger military operation against the Assad government under the cover of a “humanitarian intervention.” So far, that consensus has been lacking because the case for a military solution is based on total lies and U.S.-Israeli war propaganda, much of which has been repudiated by evidence gathered by independent journalists and eye witnesses on the ground in Syria.
According to Veterans Today:
“There is no question this is a Washington-orchestrated war. It is a low-level war to the extent that NATO has not gotten directly involved. But it is exactly what happened in Libya last year. An insurgency began; Washington orchestrated it; insurgents were recruited; they were funded; they were armed; they were US special forces, British special forces, CIA, MI6, Qatari special forces. They are in Syria now; they are directing these massacres, these killings. They are funding, they are training; they are picking targets; they are leading these dead squad games to places like Houla [and] Takiba. They are picking up who to slaughter. They go after pro-Assad loyalists.
You always have to ask, when terrible incidents occur, whether it is car bombings, whether it is massacres of civilians, cui bono, who benefits? Assad gets nothing from this. Only the opposition gains. Assad is the victim. The victim is being blamed for the perpetrator’s crimes. But again make no mistake. The nexus of this struggle emanates from Washington, doesn’t matter whether it is Obama, [former US President] George Bush or anybody else. Syria, and other regional countries, have been targeted for regime change for years, at least a decade. It was only the question when each one would come up. Syria’s turn came up and violence has been raging since early last year.”
Folks this has been pre-planned for a while, Syria has been on the list for a long time and now their time has come up. Do you really want another unnecessary war? Do you want your children fighting for another corporate war? I keep adding General Clark’s admonition of America’s plan to take over the Middle East because it is playing itself out right in front of the world! This isn’t a necessary war!
General Wesley Clark: "America will take out 7 countries in 5 years"
According to Former NATO supreme allied commander, former presidential candidate and 4 star US General Wesley Clark that they had received a memo that America is going to take out 7 countries in the Middle East starting with Iraq, Libya, Syria Lebanon Sudan, Somalia, and finally Iran. It is amazing that even if it is taking longer than originally planned, how these things that were planned years ago are being achieved in front of our eyes.
Folks, haven’t we spread enough blood shed and death around the world? This isn’t a necessary war!
Must Scarify is at it again. The boogy man cometh.
@!$%# Russia and China. Take out Assad with a Tomahawk or Drone and wash our hands of this POS
@new....tronto, stay where you belong. We left Iraq a while back. Canada needs to have its 911! Oh, that won't happen because you guys harbor Terrorist. I didn't forget that.
General Clark said......piece of paper...........7 countries......5 years? No general would ever say anything if anything like that ever existed. BULL!
As to the Rebels it is a have to win situation for them at all cost, including collateral damage. Does anybody here think for 1 tiny second that if Assad makes peace with the Rebels that they will be allowed to live for very long. Just long enough to get out of site of the press.
Hello 6dogs, General Wesley Clark did say that, check out youtube and many news rags covered his interviews, there are several videos of him reporting this information.
Google Wesley Clark 7 countries
Have Russia and China taken contracts from Saudis, oil companies and their lobbyists to remove Assad as these Hagues, Hillarys have done?
In Iraq, they repeated jokes on Saddam with Iraqi wars. Our we and Iraq better off before these wars or now?
In Iraq, these very brave British, who jump into wars first, had pacts with Iraqi Shiites rebels. Their braves forces hid in tents!
They had the privilege of being asked to get out at the earliest by Iraqi govt.
lol 6dogs doesn't have a clue what they are talking about. And is appareantly too lazy to watch the video of General Clark. I can just write 6dogs off as a propagandist or just a lazy American.
British Foreign Minister William Hague--you Brits go ahead and take care of it--but leave us out. It's a worthy cause "if" a country has money. We don't. We've been at war for the longest period in our history and it has sucked almost all of our resources dry.
We've gone way too long with this, Bomb the sh*t out of them and let the chips fall where they may, or are we scared of Russia??
We can't save the whole freakin' world! We are just one country and I say enough is enough. We need to rear our ugly head and slap the $hit out of a whole lot of countries and get it over with. Treat them like children and set them in the time out corner!
These countries start the crap and then want the United States to come in and finish it for them. Don't take a baseball bat to a gun fight. If you can't whip 'em leave them the hell alone!!
China and Russia would be doing the same thing as Syria in the same situation, and likely will be in that situation sooner or later.
The last thing they want to do is set a president for foreign intervention.
I rather like it in a way, because it shows everyone their true cards. China and Russia are not, nor ever will be countries of peace.
A couple of hundred people killed and we're concerned. Our neighbors to the South see that daily and our beloved AG sends them guns to stir up more trouble, and we do nothing about it. But a dirt hole on the other side of the world, we seem to care about. Makes no sense, and it's another War by the War Monger. Bush was a War Monger, and Obama continues the process.
The Russians and the Chines are trying to stretch their tiny muscles but they are doing for the wrong reasons. Syrian people are being killed while they stand staborn about their views. It is not Chinese or Russian people dying but it is Syrian people. Lets not listen to these ignorant bastards, let us attack this regime and wipe it out and this will send a strong message across the world that we do not torrelate tyranny regimes. We are the police of the world not China or Russia. We represent democracy and it is time that we step up for the better of people of Syria. Even though many syrians do not like us, but we will make them understand our position
@Toronto - people like you always amaze me. Terrorists, harbored by, and still harbored by, Afghan people, boarded planes and crashed them into buildings killing 3000+ people. What amazes me is you don't understand the power of the United States and how we use it. Simply put, we could have annihilated the entire populace without using nuclear weapons. We could have devastated the entire country to beyond third world status and put them back to the stone age. We could have slaughtered every single one of them. That's what communist Russia would do. What we did instead was risk the lives of our soldiers and sailors to try and surgically remove the terrorists that they are still harboring. We have spent billions trying to prop up a government to give them a chance to govern without fear of reprisal. For sure, innocent civilians have died. And that is a tragedy. A tragedy almost as great as standing in a 100+ story building and turning to see a plane crash into your office killing you and your friends. I suppose you think we should have looked the other way. We did that once before, his name was Adolf Hitler, history tells us we shouldn't do it twice.
@Toronto
Its a shame that the records of those You choose to support are so tainted (Russia, China, Etc). Hell Russia alone has a rap sheet that is well beyond any of your claims. Google Russia Military Conflicts and variations there of and you will find plenty. While I would enjoy hitting you with so many facts that you would beg for a lie I simply don't have the time to keep doing this over and over again. One thing I'm pleased about is that you are from Toronto and not Quebec since that removes any chance that you are family of mine.
They are doing something. They are aging it on.
@mission900
While I understand your feelings and in theory agree the reality is we (USA) are broke, tired, and have asked so much of our soldiers that it borders on abuse. Our men and women are stressed out and exhausted and we have asked to much of them and their families already. Time to wind things up and just keep things secure for awhile instead of diving into another mess. Keep our overseas bases manned and ready but its time to stand down and give our kids a rest.
@CE Daly,
Your post was dead on, balz to the wall accurate. That has to be one of the most well thought out and intelligent comments I've read in a while. Thank You and you have a gift for writing - btw :)
Follow the money...in this case Russia and China. Syria is their "buyer" in this case, so they dont want to mess with their source of income. Virtually every major source of hostilities in the world can be traced back to money, which uses the source of ignorance to build on...religion.
JW,
Amen.
Money + Religion = F.U.B.A.R.
18 years ago it was one of our first discussions in Intro to Economics.
The Crusades, the Church and the spice trades(Silk Road) were one the first examples given.
About that: Yeah, the BogeyMan cometh and he says "Tough S--tsky, it's who I am." Well
as my daughter Lesley says, "You are who you are."
TrustVerify is kinda correct General Wesley repeated what he
had read in a Memo from the SoD that America has a plan to take out 7 countries
in 5 years….. but so what!
The General is just a Pawn in the plan of Prophecy… spoken
of by Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Daniel, Zechariah etc.
For God Almighty rules the Kingdoms of men and gives them to
whoever he will….. King Nebuchadnezzar didn’t believe this fact either and God
removed him from his kingdom for 7 years (and just for prophecy fun a day for a
year principle jewish year is 360 days so 7 x 360 =2520 and from Nebu’s rule
2520 years later you get a new ruler of Babylon the Star and focus of the Iraqi
wars Mr. Saddam Hussein….. and in his speech before his gov he Said that he is
the Modern Day Nebuchadnezzar and had gold coins with his image and also King
Nebuchanezzars on them and he would rebuild Babylon and he Built his Castle on
the very Foundation of Ancient Babylon… Google map it and you will see his
castle there today.. He used the very same bricks from Nebu and new bricks with
the inscription Rise of Babylon) watch
on You Tube…
From Babel and Babylon to Baghdad ….. Especially if you like prophecy.
Back to the issue at hand
prior to the return of Christ(SON of God) Damascus will be a burden and
become a ruinous Heap (and where the worlds focus is today) 3 years after The
Abomination of Desolation set foot in the Place of the Most Holy of Holies.
The world is amazed at the stubbornness of Russia(Gog) but
doesn’t realize it has no choice but to play their part in God’s plan for the
return of his Son…. They have been turned back(to their Communistic ways) and
hooks will be place in their Jaws and they will come upon the land of Israel …
with their Allies and into Egypt….. This
will all happen after their Friend Syria(Damascus is destroyed) and they go up
against God and will be destroyed. And Christ will be given and become the King
he was meant to be.
Watch the You Tube video… Russia and the gathering of
nations to Armageddon.
All these things will happen to the Glory of God almighty.
Turkey is not broke. Send 1000 Abrams along with 3 divisions and 500 planes. Syria will be taken in a month. US presence in Turkey will stop Russia from coming in.
Feel free to suit up, hop on the next plane to Homs or Damascus and go over there and straighten everything out if you feel THAT strongly about it then. Go ahead, give the Assad regime a piece of your mind. Take your kid with you while you're at it, too. Go - these fifth century goobers who can't stand your guts want you to die for their cause; they're waiting. Leave the rest of us and OUR kids out of it. I'M NOT sacrificing my son, nor ANYONE ELSES, nor ANY YOUNG WOMAN'S husband NOR any LITTLE TOT'S DADDY, for ANY of these ingrates.
Interesting - I sat out on the deck with my wife and son last night while having a beer and watching the sunset. Then I woke up this morning and I saw a beautiful sunrise. And guess what......
I STILL DON'T GIVE ANY MORE OF A KRAP about the Syrians right now than I did when I sat out on my deck enjoying the sunset with my wife last night or when I looked up at the beautiful sunrise this morning!
NOW if you'll excuse me it's off on my motorcycle with my wife I will go right now. Have a nice day- and give my regards to Broadway, OKAY? *WInk wink*
Hello HOTTICKET, have a nice day and enjoy that motorcycle ride. It's nice to see someone with some perspective and healthy priorities!
We in the USA can say water is wet..and Russia and China will say its dry. As always 99.9% of the time we win any disagreements..as it shoud be!
Hello Alan, you are well indoctrinated in your religion, I'm not saying that is good or bad. The problem is that there is a middle eastern leader, Netsayahoo, who belives the same thing. If it were up to him the next global world powers summit would be in the valley at the base of the hill of Megiddo. No thanks, it aint happening!
Ok, Assad, the question has been answered. Will you be allowed to remain in power? No. (Not even Russian can keep him in power.) The only questions, to be answered:
1) How many months will Assad hold onto power?
2) How many people will die, until then?
3) Will Assad still be alive, afterwards?
@ JaneEco
I think Israel will never attack Iran until they become aware of Iran attempting to test a nuclear weapon, then it would be likely that Israel will do their own limited field munition strike, thus making them the second country to use such weapons.
I don't buy this whole 'Peace Talk' meeting that the world is being sold by the Fat5. I believe they are more likely negotiating the 'who will have what part' of a newly fallen Syrian regime.
Turkey is obviously out of patience, and it won't take much more than a matchstick, or two, to kindle that fire.
If the rebels were wise to the ways, they would use captured munition from the Assad government backed military to launch a rocket barrage into the area of the encampments, or onto Turkish combat vehicles.
There must be a few shoulder fired weapons that could be of use as well.
Turkey having the impression that Syrian forces are ready, willing, able, and are instructed to engage the Turkish presence will surely draw the hand of Turkey into the confrontation. When that happens, it's over.
As an 'attacked country' defending itself, they would be able to act in total solidarity.
I may be mistaken, but I think 9/11 sort of went that way. ( not suggesting false flag )
It may be necessary to lose a few lives to save the masses. This is THE political reality of the world today.
IMHO
Hillary is imagining too much just like her Jewish lobby!
As part of the austerity measures, just wind up the highly corrupt and partisan UN and its agencies.
We are familiar with these kinds of dramas before Iraqi wars.
Kofi Annan has stolen enough. He should be packed back!
Hot ticket and TrustVerify . . what about Me??
I have My Priorities right just LIKE YOU TWO!!! F***my wife, ride my Harley & my boat, F** the World (and close the Fed of course). I only care about Myself and my Keeeeds!!
Do I get to join your Self-Congratulatory Club??!!! I Can't wait!!! You can call Me FWDC (F*** Wife and and dont Care) for short!!!
Trying to get Russia and China to move on this is like trying to get blood out of a stone.
They will do nothing to help stop the blood bath in Syria . This is just another ruse to suck us into another stupid none of our business war. I believe we haven't learned our lesson yet and will be sucked into this mess .
Nations have long memories.
Russians won’t forget Afghanistan, Chechnya and Yugoslavia.
Some in the US jump at the chance to scream on human rights if an ant dies in China!
Most probably, they will enjoy Saudis, oil companies and their puppets' battles with Assad and his forces.
Hillarys, Hagues, Camerooons, Libermanns, McCains, Netanyahos, Erdogans, Saudis can all join together in their seventh century desert dances with those robes.
They can scream all around too.
I smell the Brotherhood or someone like them coming.
Most likely true. Given the trends established in Tunisia, Libya and Egypt, what will replace Assad will surely be worse than Assad. What stymies me is why we
allowedencouraged that to happen in Egypt. The Egyptian Military will fall as it did in Turkey. Its only a matter of time.If they manage to unify under any peaceful body, that doesn't requre the rest of the world turning the region into a parking lot, then what would it matter?
Let them have their Qur'an, Ummah, and Sunnah as long as that spiritual path leads to peace and prosperity.
If no peace.. parking lot.
Political dialogue means civilians die instead of troops.
You see: Syrians rebels spokesperson, stationed in Istanbul, mentions rebels are willing to negotiate after Assad is out!
For the Sunni Saudi puppets, even negotiation means one-way street!
Many are just ignoring or forgetting the Saudi inspired Islamic radicalism and terrorism in Nigeria, Egypt and other places right now going on!
Barbaric and beastly bigoted Sunni Saudis and outsourced their dirty work to Turkey and now via to the US, Britain and others before their Sunni Arab League dramas in Syria!
The head of the Saudi and their Arab League observers to Syria Sudanese Gen was responsible for the genocides of at least 300000 Christians in Darfur!
Is there a reason to hide behind closet?
The article does not state anything about China's response. Has anyone from the west talked to a Chinese diplomat in Geneva? Did Hillary talk to a Chinese diplomat?
usa believes she has the right to just point finger at China and tells China what they should do.
@Kevin, I have seen anything yet about China saying a word. They don't seam to have said a word about anything from the begining. I think it is wise of them to do this.
Unlike Russia, China has no stake whatsoever in the conflict. All they want is to make sure there's as little precedent as possible for invading authoritarian regimes for oppression.
@ SF China has a huge stake, as Syria is Iran's closest neighboring ally and Iran supplies China their oil.
The rise of consumption in China has slowed, but it still increases. That is not likely to stop very soon.
Upheaval in the region is bad for China too. Even now it affects their economy, and not in a good way.
@ Hatchet: SF Accountant has this mostly correct...I would just say that China has a small stake with Syria, outside the obvious interest in backing another authoritarian regime. It is only in the event that a Syrian conflict expands into a regional one, where Iranian oil exports are negatively impacted. This situation is much more complicated than the MSM or many readers appreciate. Consider that:
- Russia's only Mediterranean base is Latakia, Syria (which they will defend as if it were Russian soil)
- Turkey is a NATO member. An attack by Turkey on Syria could easily embroil NATO. Attacks on Turkey could easily be construed as an attack on NATO
- Syria is a proxy state of Iran. An attack on Syria could very well precipitate some involvement by Iran--perhaps a green light to Hezbollah to attack Israel--Hamas would be sure to follow. If this happened, Israel may well not limit herself to direct responses against Hamas and Hezbollah. This could precipitate an Israeli attack on Iran's nuclear facilities (and perhaps its oil terminals, too).
- Saudi Arabia would like nothing better than to replace the Syrian Alawite regime (friendly with Shiite Iran) with a majority-Sunni regime (especially if it is friendly with the Saudis).
This is a powderkeg--I wouldn't be too eager to light the fuse, as we don't know how big the explosion could be.
LOL, have we not learn any lesson? Like it is going really well for the West in Egypt and Lybia? ...
This is really less about looking at the results of the conflict and more about ending the civil war. Unlike Libya, we can't use air power to push the rebels home to victory, so the death toll looks likely to increase dramatically.
Chinese pukes and Russian drunks have no respect for mankind. Why would they care about another country's citizens?
Odum, maybe we can get Ireland to negotiate with them
and americans cares? Then why are you slaughtering hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan every year? Why did you have to invade on lies, again and again? If you know anything about history, usa invaded Vietnam on a pack of lies as well. How much blood do you have on your hands? Take a look at your own backyard first.
new, you are correct. The bottom line is that America wants to control Syria. Russia and China know this
New: I think you have your figures and history a bit distorted.
Roger...
New's figures and history are very accurate. More than 100,000 women and children (civilians) killed by U.S. forces in Iraq and Afghanistan based on weapons of mass destruction that never existed.
Entry into Vietnam was based on decades of US CIA intervention first into the civil war with colonial france and then on and on with our support of anti-communist regimes. In a free election, as early as 1955, the US determined that vietnam would have voted for a communist government.
If you can't be honest about these things, then we're just going to have more of the same. Personally, I'm not worried about dead civilians or our habit of starting wars and blaming others - you have to wonder if we aren't engaged in all of the wars just to profit a few companies. Their not doing anything for our economy.
@new-------hundreds of thousands?
RE: Viet Nam, Korea, WW!!, WWI We were ASKED to enter and take care of things. We probably would have left Japan alone if not for Pearl Harbor----Pearl Harbor would probably NOT have occurred IF China had not asked for our assistance when Japan tried to take over China.
I'm guessing you have never seen the pics of Japanese soldiers tossing up Chinese infants and catching them on bayonets or the numbers of Chinese nationals tied to the hulls of ships as they set sail.
Kuwait ASKED for our help against Iran, we actually haven't policed the world we have only answered desperate calls for assistance.
Personally I think we should just say NO! Especially given that EACH AND EVERY ONE of these countries including EUROPE STILL owes us $$$$. We have forgiven the debts time and again.
For those that think We should do something, Join the armed forces and go there, but don't send people in your place.
whoknow: No, his figures are noy "very accurate". He said "every year". Farther down, he said "every day".
I am both honest and objective about America's history, which I why I am not tolerant of having our history distorted.
Lexiwords has a better grip on the issue. Good post!
Sam, we are idiots to put boots on the ground in Iraq and Afganastan. This is not 1935. It is 2012. If we wish to fully conquer a country, we can only do it in a Japan-like format. Mass and expediant genocide. War is not a moral game, it is as immoral as it comes. And you cannot practice "nation building" until you have fully conquered the religious and cultural idiology of the population.
Does your f'ing American Government give two @!$%#s about their own people? Most ignorant, pumped chest Americans don't give a damn about the guy next door. I believe you get all pumped as well when a 250 lb fat-assed Nazi cop pepper sprays a 20-something young lady in the face. Face it Moron, the US and their ally's care not one bit about the Syrian people, just as they didn't about Libya's or Egypt's or.... you can go on and on. It's all about money, resources and global domination. Wake up Serfs!!
Only a blind, ignorant moron would post what you have. Odumba or what ever stupid name you post as. Get off the couch and away from Fox TV. You should choke on the pork rinds you ignorant putz.
lexiwords, I had seen enough japanese brutalities. I went to the Nanjing Museum where I was moved to tears. The jap massascre over 300,000 Chinese civilians in just 2 weeks time. They were 100 times worst than the Nazi & they have yet to appologize or pay compensation to the "Comfort Women".
USA did not help China out in WWII until you were attacked. By that time, the japanese invasion of China had already gone on for 10 years (japan started invading China in 1931 & launched full scale invasion in 1937) .
japan got almost a free pass from USA after surrender because USA received all the research results from Unit 731, where the jap used Chinese civilians as test subject for germ warfares.
People, please google Gulf of Tonkin. 1965 Lyndon Johnson "For all I know, our Navy was shooting at whales out there". This comment was refering to the Gulf of Tonkin incident in 1964. Yet he ordered the invasion of Vietnam.
The death toll in Iraq alone is over 100,000, which Bush called collateral damage and not worth tracking. News from Iraq and Afghanistan are censored, especially in USA soil. To those silly Americans who think you have free press, go back to your sleep & sweet dreams.
Toronto....you are a complete idiot! You piously claim all of your thoughts from a country whose military isn't nearly large enough to defend itself. why? Because you are welfare recipients of the protection of Uncle Sam. Wesley Clark is a complete moron. He is a political hack for the ultra left wing. I just watched the video and can't help but remind you of his statement, "thats why we are loosing in Iraq." He was wrong there and is wrong about everything else! He was trying to gin up anti-war support for his Presidential aspirations. thank God folks figured him out. You anti-war folks always trot that has been out and say that everything out of his mouth is the "honest to God truth". HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
@Whoknew: There has never been a claim by the US that there are weapons of mass destruction in Afghanistan. That conflict began as a result of the Taliban leadership, refusing to expel Al Qaeda leadership from within their borders, following the 9/11 attacks.
You'll get no argument from me over Iraq being a lie, but Afghanistan had a response coming.
@OdumbodaPrez
So do Americans have respect for mankind killing 200 000 or so in Iraq and so in Afg ? LOL,
не смеши мою лысину! )))
@ new in cyberspace from Toronto
I won't argue with you Evelyn, you ARE Nuts, with a capital N.
My personal opinion.. Let the Iraqi and Afghani move in with you, up there in the Great White Vacuum, and teach them your socialist ways.
Then thank your lucky stars that there simply isn't anything in Canada worth owning, or your country would have been long gone 250 years ago.
No surprise that you refuse to stay on topic, as you obviously have your own agenda, but be sure to let me know what it is when you figure it out.
Sometimes it's hard to carve up agreeable amounts of the pie when dishing out the world.
Wolf, I hope the "carver" leaves a piece for me
Russia and China's position is disgusting. They have blood on their hands.
usa has more blood on your hands. You just ignored all your attrocities and only point fingers at others.
tax, Russia and China gave up geo-expansionism decades ago. America hasn't
New/Toronto:
Yes, America has blood on its hands. You've stated that a bout three times now.
Let me ask you this, sorry to change your anti-American focus though; how much blood does Russia and China have on their hands?
Now, back to the isssue at hand; what is your opinion on Russia arming Syria and keeping a contingient of troops in Syria? What is your opinion on Russia and China being competely numb about the violence Assad is directing toward his own people?
Roger, because Russia (and China) know we want to control Syria. Blood flows throughout the world every day.
Kevin: I agree with you. Blood does flow throughout the world every day. What I want that anti-American Canuck to admit is that America is not alone in that happening.
Taxpayer....
I haven't seen China or Russia engaged in a war for some time.
There's nothing "Anti-American" about stating the obvious. I'm a taxpayer too (more and more of them it seems) and I wonder why I'm paying for wars on the other side of the world while we go deeper and deeper into debt, fewer people have jobs, a generation is unable to find employment, 11 million illegal immigrants live and work in this country .....
It seems to me like our politicians and government have been bought and sold by companies that profit from war.
AND it isn't as though we're 'free' in this country anymore. Not with things like the Patriot Act and NDAA...we can't very well be claiming to spread freedom throughout the world when we no longer have it ourselves.
whoknow:
You have not seen Russia and China engaged in A war in some time. Huh, define "some time".
roger, you should start reading news outside the border of USA. The world starts, and not stop, at your border.
For your information, USA has been supplying arms to Syrians as well, who is responsible for some of the attrocities. Nobody is innocent. In fact, Syria had been 1 of the destination for CIA "extra ordinary rendition" program, where people are secretly transported to Syria for torture. This is done so that your american politicians can stand in front of the camera and say "America do not torture!". These tortures includes Canadians. These facts had been proven beyond a reasonable doubt in our court system.
Boy Toronto glad your on the other side of our border no courts proving anything about torture and even if we do (wich we dont) if it gets intell to help us out and find the dirtbags then so be it. Stay home lock your doors and close your blinds if you really believe half of what you say because you are not sane. At least we americans would come save your but if need be too where the hell were you on 9/11, or are you too young to remember? the point is what we do is valid, for a reason, and to the point! If you cant handle that then go over there and live with them for a while, maybe then youll see the eror of your way of thinking!!!
Toronto, it's nice that you've done your research and have such a long list of American wrongdoing that you can answer every single post with a new atrocity. We need other countries to hold us to account for things like that since the 9/11 thing sort of jarred our conscience loose (if you accept we ever had one, which you probably don't). But you're not answering Roger's question.
If you want to paint America as a cartoon villain, fine. But that does not automatically make China and Russia heroes. America torturing people is no excuse for turning a blind eye to the bloodshed in Syria. If you want to discuss what America SHOULD be doing (rather than complaining about the past), great. That's kind of what this is all about.
Whoknow, do you remember Georgia at all? Russia rolled in and stomped the country with almost no warning. But I'm sure that was totally legit.
Isaiah 17:1 very soon.
Hello folks, when will we discard our Imperialistic mindset? This is just another ploy by the U.S. and the U.N. to perpetrate the war mongering and demonizing as the U.S. is trying to drum up more support for another war. We’ve caused enough trouble around the world. If you can't see that we are the instigators in most of the world's wars and displacement of millions of people who are fleeing our aggression, than you are not paying attention. If you don’t think we have been in Syria covertly arming the rebels you are in denial and forgetting about Libya. We need to stay out of other country’s civil disputes. I hope we aren’t going to go against the United Nations vote earlier this year and unilaterally go into Syria under the pretext that we need to stop the violence like we did in Libya. General Wesley Clark has stated that a Syria invasion has been pre-planned for quite awhile.
General Wesley Clark: "America will take out 7 countries in 5 years"
According to Former NATO supreme allied commander, former presidential candidate and 4 star US General Wesley Clark that they had received a memo that America is going to take out 7 countries in the Middle East starting with Iraq, Libya, Syria Lebanon Sudan, Somalia, and finally Iran. It is amazing how these things that were planned years ago and even though it is taking longer than originally planned, are being achieved in front of our eyes.
Why is it other countries feel like they have to defend their territory? Could it be that they know we have no problem invading their sovereignty just as we have done to countless other countries. Since World War II, 90% of the casualties of war are unarmed civilians. 1/3 of them children. Our victims have done nothing to us. From Palestine to Afghanistan to Iraq to Somalia to wherever our next target may be, their murders are not collateral damage, they are the nature of modern warfare. They don't hate us because of our freedoms. They hate us because every day we are funding and committing crimes against humanity. The so-called "war on terror" is a cover for our military aggression to gain control of the resources of western Asia.
This is sending the poor of this country to kill the poor of those Muslim countries. This is trading blood for oil. This is genocide, and to most of the world, we are the terrorists. In these times, remaining silent on our responsibility to the world and its future is criminal. And in light of our complicity in the supreme crimes against humanity in Iraq and Afghanistan, and ongoing violations of the U.N. Charter in International Law, how dare any American criticize the actions of legitimate resistance to illegal occupation.
We are going into Syria for a couple of reasons (yes we are in Syria with our Drones at a minimum), one, we are trying to dislodge Russia from there because they have a foothold in the Middle East via two military bases in Latakia and Tartus in Syria. Two, Syria is a strong ally of Iran. If we invade Syria we take out a strong ally and maybe incite Iran to assist giving the U.S. the reason they are looking for to attack Iran. The ultimate goal is to surround, weaken and to invade Iran. The petro dollar is at stake as other countries are switching to other forms of currency in buying Iran’s oil.
Since the Russian war in 1828, Iran has never attacked another country. We on the other hand have attacked to name a few:
Libya, Iran, Nicaragua, Haiti, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Angola, Mozambique, Honduras, Chile, Congo, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon, Somalia, Angola, Columbia, Peru, Panama, Yemen, Pakistan, Grenada, Mexico, etc..
Wake up people we are being herded down the Military Industrial Complex gauntlet again to another false war to enrich the greedy Corporations and distract the American people. Did we not learn anything from the Iraq war where we have killed well over 1 million Iraqi people, lost thousands of American lives and God knows how many hundreds of billions of dollars?
Who do you support, humanity or the greedy elite?
Many of our soldiers don't fight for America, they fight for their lives and their buddies beside them, because we put them in a war zone. They're not defending our freedoms, they're laying the foundation for permanent military bases to defend the freedoms of Exxon Mobil and British Petroleum.
Face it we're Imperialists pure and simple. The elite look down on all of us as expendable chattel.
"Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy" Henry Kissinger
I’m not asking you to hate war, but to love peace? War, what is it good for, absolutely nothing!
Trust, Russia and China know this. That is why they are not supporting the west's rationalization to get involved in Syria
Hello Kevin, I agree, we can only hope that cooler heads will prevail. I think that will be the case. Warmongers are going the way of the dodo bird!
@trust, who the heck are you? I think I got it. You and new...........tronto are sole mates. yeppers! Just a couple of Terrorist Hiding Canadians.
For a guy who claims to love peace and hate war, you sure seem awfully supportive of Assad, Trusty.
I mean, I know you blame the United States for everything bad ever, but I don't see any appeal in your cut-and-paste tirade for Syria's sake. Not even for a pie-in-the-sky diplomatic solution!
It's almost as if it really doesn't matter to you what happens in Syria, and every action by the US, including the explicitly DIPLOMATIC and PEACEFUL appeals by trying to cut off Assad's Russian support, are just another indication of hateful imperialism.
Weird.
The poster reads "We don't care blood is everywhere". How is this our business. The history books tell us about Custer being massacred -- the books to tell us that Custer was on his way to massacre the Indians first. Benten, and his troops (Custer's support), had not been spotted and stopped. War is war. It is not for us to take sides and change the sides of battle. We are not the worlds peace makers. As with Custer's ambition to massacre we have "wounder knee", and numerous other atrocities. Who made us the "good guys" entitled to preach to the world.
Gil, good insight. America continues to practice geo-expansionism primarily. "Human rights" is just an attempt to rationalize our primary goal to control a valuable piece of real-estate
Why are we even asking the Russians and Chinese? If it's come to the point where the world needs their approval, to do what is Right, it's OVER! Putin and Assad are _utt Hole Buddies and the Chinese would love nothing nore than to see everyone in the world Kill each other, so they can take over.Screw both of them, Let a few Dozen NATO Bombers, go in and level Damascus and Assad's palace.
Alan we would have a problem with that because of MAD (not to mention that if Russia and China ever get together militarily and fight us in a conventional war, They will kick our a** ) The Big Three (China, Russia and America) need to meet and work this out diplomatically. We have no other choice
Food for thought. How would we have felt if England and France decided that they needed to "intervene" in the US Civil War, and replace Abraham Lincoln with a more "stable" government to save thousands of lives?
Joe, excellent comparison.
Joe: Actually, both France and England got involved - albeit unofficially - in our civil war.
England wanted the South's cotton and slavery would help that happen. Plus, many Southerners, particularly Georgians, had a strong ansectoral relationship with England. Oh, England helped... clandestinely. England wanted a Confederate victory.
France gave the Union alot of support running diplomatic interference in Europe and advising Union generals. About the financing, that I need to double check.
I am not talking about England and France doing things to help one side or another.
I am talking about them overthrowing the US government and replacing it with one more to their liking.
I am sure Americans would never forgive other countries for doing this to us. Why do we think it is alright for us to do it to others?
What one country "likes" or not is really completely irrelevant.
If France or England had interfered back during our civil war, we would look back on it and see what effect it had caused. Whether or not we "forgive them" (and we totally would, we already forgave everything else they did to us and others) is far, far less important than what actually happens as a result of their meddling. Geopolitics is not something to be driven by "the golden rule".
Your comparison is a big hunk of false equivalence anyway. If my government was bombarding American citizens with artillery and killing thousands of its own people, YES, I would want Europe or whoever was willing to help overthrow the government. You wouldn't?
Wait Joe 77, so in your world when a country helps one of the sides in a civil war it is not working against the other? How does that math work? Roger is 100% correct, in fact that was one of the reasons that Lincoln issued the Emansipation Proclamation. It solidified the idea that US civil war was about slavery thus keeping England and France from recognizing the Confederacy and giving it open support.
It is all about having a sphere of influence. Russia and China want to feel like they have power over there. They don't want us calling all the shots. That is why they are in opposition. It is not about whether who is right to them. It is about them being tired of us telling everyone how the world should work. If we compromise from this point of view, then perhaps we can strike a deal with them. We might have to beg them and give them what they want though. Better than WWIII.
Super, I agree. This is why I want to see Obama, Putin, the Chinese Leader AND the Leaders of Iran to meet in Moscow. But Obama won't do this until after he is re-elected in Nov. In the meantime, we leave Syria alone and let Hillary and Biden work with everybody above diplomatically to smooth things out and prepare for the big meeting
This article is just more BS propaganda designed to make Americans think that attacking another country is the right thing to do. Where are they getting these "estimated 185 civilian" deaths anyway? There is no substantiation to this crap. There were probably a couple hundred people killed but they were terrorists who were armed and directed by the CIA and related organizations, not civilians. The cause of the violence in Syria is CIA backed death squads who are trying to topple the Syrian government so that Iran, Russia, and Hezbollah will be left powerless in the Middle East.
How many people do you think are going to die if NATO declares all out war in Syria? A LOT MORE. Just shut up with this BS propaganda and stay out of other countries.
DJ, another very suspicious thing is that the media has never reported the PERCENTAGE of the Syrian population who support Assad vrs, the rebels. How can we possibly rationalize what side to support until we get this info. Very, Very suspicious (even of our own media)
So the reports of civilians killed is BS propaganda.
And your accusation that the people killed are CIA-armed terrorists and that the United States, which has stayed far away from any possibility of a military operation in Syria, just wants to invade is, what? Not BS propaganda?
You're not very compelling.
Turkey helped the US in the Gulf War: and they informed the US Military Brass that they had equipment to detect bio-chem warfare--but our arrogant obsessed to let more US Military deaths occur did nothing: then the US Gov pretended not to be aware of the Gulf Syndrome which ate the insides out of our US Military just like Vietnam's Agent Orange. And why is Agent Orange being shipping from Mexico into Texas and other States? We saw an entire train of 67 cars ALL Agent Orange, but in the chemical name. We had a Special Forces or former Special Forces Officer with us whom had seen it many times! Our gov is preparing to do something to us and since it has aided and abetted everyone against us: Los Zetas training JIHADIST and JIHADIST appointed to the Homeland Insecurity; with the Communist Chinese controlling the Panama Canal and Long Beach and oil in Canada and the Baja..they are not shipping pinatas! The Kenyan wants to remain forever traveler, fundraiser and who wouldn't having NO CONSCIENCE...
Stop, you are "a little off" today. But the true examples I could tell you. Let me put it this way: We are very, very safe here in the US
Let Syria drain some other countries wallet for awhile, ours is empty. Besides WHO CARES!!
smitt, America cares because Syria is a very valuable piece of real estate. And we want it.
'morning Kevin. "And we want it", you say. You will go to war over it??
This is a Syrian civil war. Radical islam may win as it has in Egypt and Lybia. Know one knows what the rebels stand for. The situation is ripe for another islamic state. The CIA is useless, as usual they know nothing until after the fact.
mikey, Islam is not a bad thing. Christains have radicals too.
?? So whatever Islam does is okay since the Christians are also sinners. Wow. So get the hell off all three continents.
Toronto-we got your opinion loud and clear the first three times. Enough already. Geez. Am I proud of everything that we as a country have done. NO. But I am proud to be from here. I vote, I do my best to get people in power that will do the right thing. Sadly, that isn't always the case. It has been like that since the ancient times, so it's nothing new. But seriously, we get you hate America. Stay up north. That is fine with us.
Happy Independence Day, USA! If we don't stick together now, we are in some major trouble.
Gutless Obama only knows how to make war against his own country...er, I mean the USA..his country is Kenya, or something. Russia has told our "President" to butt out, or they will use their warships against us.
China, Russia, and Iran-plus others, have a Pact called the Shanghi Accord and Obama runs for the tall grass just thinking about them ! The Pact was formed 3 month before 9-11. Connect the dots.
You don't support the US that is for sure. Check out Syria, and stay there.
happy, check out many countrys and areas in central Africa. Horrible waring has been going on there for decades and the only thing we do is send the peace corp.
May I suggest, historically and contemporarily, South AFrica including Lesotho to Libya, and Mali to Somalia which includes many 'at one time warlords', and you have covered most of Africa. We just sent troops, at Obama's bidding, to Uganda for whatever reason. I guess the thumbnail sketch of a man has an axe to grind with the kids he sent 'over there'. The U.S. would be absorbed by Africa. Stay out.
Syria has become the playground of weapons deals. US is supporting the rebels, Russia not wishing to miss out on the deal is supporting Assad. So with our weapons we are going to obliterate a country.
Trust and Verify... A very informed, self-educated contributor.
How to get American Citizens to see their role in the bigger socio-economic Global picture? That is the question!
First we have to get over the idea that learning about history, etc. is uncool, something only "nerds" learn about.
I would bet the majority of Americans could not even find Syria on a map, let alone know anything about what is really going on over there.
This is not a rip on American citizens. It is not their fault. The controlling powers do not want critical thinking citizens, thus, the anti-intellectual culture.
Well, it helps if you have a grasp on current events, for one.
When he enters a news story about the United States using purely diplomatic pressure to get countries to STOP supporting a regime embarking on a crusade of bloody oppression, ranting about American imperialism and stopping war doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Once you've lost that basic connection with reality, people don't listen to anything else you have to say.
Also, that Wesley Clark thing seems to be central to every argument he ever makes, even though Trusty's already admitted that the prediction hasn't come true. You might not be aware of this, but Wesley Clark isn't actually in charge of making the decisions of who we will or won't invade or for what reason. That's kind of the president's job.
Hola amigo. The U.S.''won't" in my life time for sure (79+) here, and not in your life time either. Send water to Colorado.
To the majority: Any comment more than a short paragraph (very short) is a waste of time and effort...unfortunately.
^^^ read this
Here's a problem where one group of people have gotten tired of being oppressed by another group and the darn neighbors want to get involved instead of letting them work out their problems themselves. On the other hand, maybe it's the neighbors who are the problem. Easy solution- give a block party, get drunk with happy thoughts, eat good food, and then find some place to digest it all in peace. What ever happen to giving peace a chance?