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Subscribe to RSSProtesters in Alexandria, Egypt, throw shoes, tomatoes and a water bottle at the motorcade of U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. NBC's Lester Holt reports.
Prominent Christian Egyptians snubbed Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on Sunday because they feel the U.S. administration favors Islamist parties over secular and liberal forces in society at the expense of Egypt's 8 million Christians.
The critical theme was repeated by others Sunday in Cairo and Alexandria despite Clinton denying U.S. interference in Egyptian elections.
The politicians, businessmen and clerics who snubbed Clinton were supposed to take part in meetings between Clinton and influential members of civil society.
Coptic Christian businessman and politician Naguib Sawiris and three other Coptic politicians said in a statement they were objecting to Clinton's policies in solidarity with the mainstream Egyptian.
Brendan Smialowski / AFP - Getty Images
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton poses with Egypt's Christian leaders for a picture Sunday after their meeting at the U.S. Embassy in Cairo.
They also said that since the revolution, the U.S. administration and Clinton have paid many visits in support of Islamic political currents in society while ignoring other civil movements.
The four prominent Copts consider the meeting with the Islamist parties a form of external pressure to push the Islamists to power and ignore other civil movements. They blamed the U.S. for even showing a preference for an Islamist presidential candidate.
Egypt, a nation of nearly 84 million, is 90 percent Muslim, 9 percent Coptic and 1 percent other Christian denominations.
Two church leaders also turned their back on Clinton.
Coptic Bishop Morcos and Evangelical church leader Safwat al Bayadi refused to meet with Clinton because of what they characterized as interference in Egyptian internal affairs and U.S. support for Islamists while ignoring the majority of Egyptians.
A few hundred protesters chanted the same message in front of the Garden City Four Seasons hotel where Clinton overnighted.
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Clinton sought to dispel the idea.
"She wanted, in very, very clear terms, particularly with the Christian group this morning, to dispel that notion and to make clear that only Egyptians can choose their leaders, that we have not supported any candidate, any party, and we will not," a senior U.S. official told reporters on Sunday.
US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton meets with newly elected Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi, a scene that no one would have believed just 18 months ago. NBC's Ayman Mohyeldin reports.
Rights for all
At a Sunday meeting of prominent women, Clinton emphasized rights for all Egyptians, not their choices.
"I came to Cairo, in part, to send a very clear message that the United States supports the rights, the universal rights of all people," she said. "We support democracy. But democracy has to be more than just elections. It has to mean that the majority will be protecting the rights of the minority."
The United States will "look to any elected government to support inclusivity, to make sure that the talents of every Egyptian can be put to work in building a new future for this ancient and incredibly important country," Clinton told a group of prominent women.
Alexandria protesters chant 'Monica'
Later in Alexandria, Clinton presided over a ceremony to reopen the U.S. consulate in Alexandria, which was closed in 1993 to save money.
Brendan Smialowski / AFP - Getty Images
Protesters gather on an Alexendria, Egypt, street Sunday as Secretary of State Hillary Clinton attends a flag-raising ceremony for the reopening of the U.S. consulate in the mediterranean port city.
The ceremony was moved inside as protesters grew vocal outside the consulate.
In her speech, Clinton said, "I want to be clear that the United States is not in the business, in Egypt, of choosing winners and losers, even if we could, which, of course, we cannot."
Protesters threw tomatoes, shoes and a water bottle as members of the press accompanying Clinton walked to their vans.
A tomato hit an Egyptian official in the face.
The protesters also chanted "Monica, Monica, Monica," a reference to Monica Lewinsky, the White House intern who was the focus of a sex scandal with her husband, then-President Bill Clinton.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton meets with Egypt's President Mohammed Morsi. Msnbc's Alex Witt reports.
This article includes reporting by Reuters.
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- Egypt seeks release of Mass. pastor abducted by Bedouin
- Clinton holds first meeting with Egypt's Morsi amid political standoff
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Leave a Comment:
You poor Christians are going to get you heads lopped off :(
Oh those peace loving Christians! Jesus would be ashamed at those who misuse his teachings.
Good God! The Tea Party is in Egypt!
The Copts in Egypt are very perceptive. Clearly the US is supporting the Islamists in Egypt at the expense of other groups. The Islamists deny the right to freedom of speech , press , religion and equal rights for women, but this does not deter the government of the US from embracing them.
Hilary won't even stand up and call a spade a spade. She won't say that suppression of freedom of speech and press is inimical to human rights. She won't say that freedom of religion is a bedrock human right that all human beings are entitled to. She won't say to the Islamists that women deserve equal rights with men and that Sharia law which denies this equality and instead enshrines discrimination is an abomination from the stone age. Instead , she ingratiates herself with these violators of human rights and offers them money from the taxpayers of America.
not only Christians but other religious people as well. including atheist. will be punish by the Islamic extremist that might appear their in a year or two.
gary: I can see that the factual statements made by the Secretary or State are unimportant to you while the BS you dream up in your pitiful mind has become truth. You want to believe BS; you dream up BS; and you believe BS.
mason ------ To Muslims atheists are even worse than Christians. No one in Egypt would ever dare to come out and publicly say that Allah was not god and there was no god. Doing that in public in Egypt would get you killed quickly by members of that " peaceful " religion.
Do we really have freedom of press in America? Do you really think it is air you are breathing?
They are absolutley right, Obama does support the islamist radical group muslim brotherhood and will turn his back when they start killing christians. Clinton has to be his front on this because she wil support whatever it is he wants. Dems would support Hitler is he was a regeistered dem.
To " Iowa748402 - "No wonder Iowa is the nations largest producers of pigs with comments like that. You don't have a clue and neither does Hillary. Maybe you'll get the plot of the movie when Iranian missiles armed with nukes are aiming at us in a few years or when the entire Middle East is controlled by fundamentalists or when we have dirty bombs going off in Des Moines or another World War. Lynsaypug and Bill Crane are almost as vacueous as you. It's not about religion children, it's about the most serious threat to peace the world has faced since Nazi Germany - and it ain't the Christians of the World that are the threat - its Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood, Al Qaida, Taliban, and about 30 other factions that live for the day when they can put all three of your heads on a stick - as vacant as they may be! Enough said.
One fundamentalist is as bad as another.
The Christians are right! It is clear our current (albeit short lived) administration does favor the Islamist's. But then why not? I believe Obama is a Muslim.
Wow. Talk about sheer brazenness. These Christians obviously had no comprehension of what Clinton was trying to do in Egypt: support democracy and by extension support harmony between divisive groups. Taunting and shouting isn't going to earn them any favors whatsoever. It just makes me want to let them get abused.
There seems to be some confusion about the Islamists. Are they secular as some claim or are they radicals? At present I would say that neither category matches up. But if they are holding meetings with American officials--and a woman--and if they are genuine about their democracy, then they need a chance. We learned that messing with foreign countries' politics is way too troublesome and counterproductive.
Or would you guys rather we just charge in and hand the country over to Christians who can't even recognize one of their own allies? That seems to be what some of you really want. Some people who call themselves Christians won't rest until the whole world falls into their hands or is eradicated in the process.
The most beautiful sound in the world is muslim evening prayers....Barack Hussein Obama. Egypt's Christians are dead ducks if Morsi's Islamic Brotherhood overthrows the ruling military.
HopefulAmerican,
"I believe Obama is a Muslim."
And I believe there are little green men on Mars and that the moon (at least the far side of it) is made of cheese. I think there is the same amount of evidence for both beliefs.
JP: Maybe you can help me with this doomsday prophesy of yours. You say radical Muslims will defeat us unless we do what? Let's look at the facts:
1. The United States is at war with al Qaeda and the Taliban. We are taking out their high ranking officers and their rank and file members daily with drone aircraft attacks against them. Have those facts gotten by you or do you simply not include them in your analysis.
2. The American Defense Budget equals that of the REST of the the World's put together. That has been all over the news for some years now.
3. The American military and economy are the strongest in the world by far. No country in the world is even close to power and strength let alone what it is when we join with our other allies.
4. Iran is a power in the mid-East, but Iran has very powerful enemies among the Muslim nations of the mid-East as well. Saudi Arabia, for example, despises the Iranians and will turn on them in a minutes should Iran start seriously rattling sabers.
5. Much of the mid-East is and has been in both civil war and revolution for generations. Syria is an example of civil war and Iran itself is on the verge of it every day. I would not be surprised to see Turkey invade Syria at any moment. Civil war could break out in Egypt any minute as well. If the Muslim Brotherhood tries to impose a radical Islamic rule in Egypt the military and large numbers of people will be at the barricades in a minute.
6. How many mid-Eastern countries have the knowledge and resources to put together a space program as the United States has done? The fact is that we now have a "Star Wars" system that will shoot down enemy missiles should one be launched. That is not to even mention the retaliation the U. S. would launch should some country even try to launch a missile against us.
You sound as though you know nothing of the above. Further, you sound as though you have completed disregarded the devastating attacks our military has launched and continues daily to launch against al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Pakistan, and instead, have dreamed up your own truths that have no basis in fact!
Democracy doesn't mean that minorities should rule. Those so-called Christians have proven that they are just as fanatical as they fear the Islamists might be by reacting in such a prejudicial and hateful manner.
They are prejudiced against being killed by the Muslim Brotherhood, or haven't you noticed what is going on in Nigeria, and other African states with a large muslim population.
Monica, Monica, Monica they shouted at Hillary. Does she look like Monica Lewinsky? She did promise them 250 million when she left. Ole Hillary is good at kissing A$$. Gdamn that woman looks bad, she needs to get with Nancy Pelosi's, plastic surgeon.
Yeah... Those Fanatical Christians... Burning down the Mosques, imprisoning Muslims in state jails... stoning them in public.... Oh wait... I'm sorry isn't that the other way around?
//www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/10/us-egypt-clashes-coptic-idUSTRE7992W420111010
//www.cbsnews.com/2100-202_162-7235726.html
//www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/apr/25/arab-christians-recognition-new-regimes
Please.... Give me a break.
motegaze
TTQA. You, are the one who has no understanding of what occurred or what Obama really did. Copitic Christians thrived until Islam overtook Egypt after the Birth of Islam in 600 AD. From then on it has been more a question of survival with times of more moderate islamic rule as Assad became and Mubarak were.
They understand Mubarak to be like the overthrow of the Shah of Iran supported by Jimmy Carter who was favorable to his overthrow for "human rights" violations by the Shah. Under the Shah, other religions had a level of tollerance, shortly after the overthrow, they had less rights, reason to fear persecution and run fear for their lives.
They understand that any support coming from this administration to be a weak appology and really probably see these actions as platitudes. Afterall, that is what the people of other religions saw from the US after the Khomeni Regime was installed.
Well, it's likely that the Christians will be persecuted to some extent--I'm not going to deny that. That's what happens when you let a religion influence politics or when you have a majority that buys into the Muslim Brotherhood's ideals. If this new democracy works out, however, prejudicial policies and attitudes against Christianity will gradually evaporate. Until then you have people being very edgy.
Morsi walked away from the Muslim Brotherhood. He is the first democratically elected president of Egypt. I see that as a couple of steps in the right direction. It's too early to know what will actually happen.
Flame77,
"Those Fanatical Christians... Burning down the Mosques, imprisoning Muslims in state jails... stoning them in public.... Oh wait... I'm sorry isn't that the other way around?"
Christians are in no position to do such things in Egypt. They are in the minority. But they already did their share of such things during the Crusades if I remember correctly from my history classes.
The destiny of America is to carry the gospel of Jesus Christ to all men everywhere. John Adams
It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians, not on religions, but the gospel of Jesus Christ. Patrick Henry
It is apparent the way the Muslim Brotherhood will rule Egypt, that isn't even in question. Let the killing begin.
Clinton looks like hell - blond version of Kirsty Alley.
DB Akron: What do you propose the American government do? Egypt is overwhelmingly Muslim, but Egypt is in no way unified. You seem to believe that Islam is a monolithic religion. It is not. It is as diverse as Christianity and far less unified. The mid-East, including Islam, has been undergoing revolution and civil war for decades. If the current Egyptian government cannot govern all of the people fairly, then the people will be back in the streets and very likely supported by the Egyptian military. (There were Egyptian Muslims, for example, who took Coptic Christians into their homes, protected, and cared for them when radical Muslims recently burned and destroyed Coptic churches.) Egypt is not a unified country, and neither is Iran, Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan, or Iraq to mention only a few. That is in no way to say that we must not be on our guard against the radical al Qaeda and Taliban, but we are currently focused on taking them out, particularly with our drone aircraft. That will continue. So, I ask you the question that I asked at the beginning of my comments--What do you want the American government to do?
Timothy,
Patrick Henry was obviously in denial. Rather than facing the fact that Christianity is a religion, he simply claims that it isn't. That's the great thing about fanatics: they don't use logical arguments.
Oh by the way: John Adams does not decide the destiny of America. Americans do. And thank God, not all Americans buy into fanaticism like these dorks.
TJefferson,
"(There were Egyptian Muslims, for example, who took Coptic Christians into their homes, protected, and cared for them when radical Muslims recently burned and destroyed Coptic churches.)"
No, that can't be! Muslims are all evil, didn't you know that? They are incapable of human feeling! :)
TJeff, Saudi Arabia's soft, westernized ruling family is ready to be toppled. It does not trust even its own armed forces which it keeps divided so its commanders cannot conspire with each other to overthrow the al Sauds. Besides, all the Saudi troops did was throw their armored vehicles in reverse and run at first sight of Saddam's army at the battle of Khafji, leaving the few US Marines there with them to hide as the Iraqis entered the town.
AND, Saudi Arabia has its own restive Shi'a minority as do other Emirates.
As for Egypt's Copts--I hesitate to call them "Christians" as it is not a Christianity any of us would recognize, they have nowhere to go but to America for protection when the Moslems start burning their homes and religious buildings. They better get to work drafting an apology for this affront, and make it direct and public.
Mickey: I bow to your superior knowledge. ha
Timothy, whatever else Patrick or Adams or any of the founders might have been, morally they used a bit of BS to justify theft, murder and other atrocities in order to take that land they founded their Nation of Freedom on. It was called Manifest Destiny....Our God destined us to take your Lands, Redman. And your life if you don't push off........
Islamist isn't a real word. It's what people use when they want to make all Muslims sound like terrorists. The adjective form of Islam is Islamic, not Islamist. It's also not a noun. People who follow Islam aren't Islamists. They're Muslims.
By creating a new word that's a portmanteau of Islam and terrorist, people hope to perpetuate the seriously off-base notion that all followers of Islam are terrorists, when only a tiny fraction of them are. Yes, that tiny fraction are extremely dangerous and destructive, and they need to be eradicated, but it's no less wrong to paint Muslims as all being terrorists than it is to paint all Christians as such, especially when Christians were responsible for the deaths of millions over the centuries.
Responsible journalists don't use faux words like Islamist(s) in their writing. They use neutral, standardized languaged. The author of this article needs to be smacked around by his/her editor a bit.
Nungman: I agree with much of what you said. Saudi Arabia is, indeed, a complex country governed by an absolute dictatorship. Still, they have no love for the Shia Persians, and, if push comes to shove, the Saudi's will fight them. That fight may be principally an air war possibly even a nuclear war. A very large percentage of the Saudi people are poor as church mice and very poorly educated which is always an unknown as far as predicting what they might do in warfare. The history of Muslim warfare, however, does show some very competent leaders and dedicated fighters when fighting both Christians and other Muslims. I have no idea how competent the Saudi military establishment is nor do I know how well their army would fight should they be put to the test. I would think, however, that given the vast amount of money the west, particularly the U.S. has poured into Saudi Arabia for their oil that the Saudi princes would do all in their power to put together a powerful, efficient, military to protect their interests. They do have the wealth to purchase the kind of technology they would need to dominate the region. I do know they are providing for an educational system that would lead one to believe they are interested in doing that. In my judgment, neither Iran or Saudi Arabia believes it is strong enough to do more than rattle sabers today.
Yike! All I did was make a smart @ss'd comment and I get jumped on by these guys whose names are followed by their prisoner numbers: TJeff, Gary, Mason, et al.
So much bigotry and hate. Are you guys sure you're Christians? Better check the Sermon on the Mount.
@motegaze who sez:
These "so-called Christians" know a lot better than someone like you what is at stake for them in the new Egypt lorded over by the Muslim Brotherhood. You, on the other hand, in your comfy chair, behind your keyboard at happy distance, can afford to judge with such bigoted insouciance.
Hillary is on the biggest GROVEL, SCRAPE, SUCK UP mission ever, what the hell will she do about the Muslin Brotherhood,,, sweet F A. I have never seen a diplomat looking so defeated, that false smile would suite a meeting with Monica Lewinski. Guess the $Billions you yanks pay for the privilege has gone down the gurglar.
With a name like Obama, why wouldn't they be suspect? Half of America is suspect.
Bill Crane: Where are you coming from? I don't recall making any comment directed to you.
Clinton wipes away 1 billion dollars in dept, pledges 800 million more and will be @ China's feet begging for trillions. Does no one else care about our (AMERICAN) children and their children. No Mas, No Bama, 2012
Sorry TJeff, my error. I am trying to follow this comment chain and I am not sure if I have offended the right armchair sophistry is really not my best suit. All I know is that half of America seems to despise the other half and that seems to me a lot like some of the Middle Eastern countries that are being trashed here.
Tell me NC open heart, how you think the noble red man came to be in possession of this land when the Europeans arrived? The same way that they lost it and countless other civilizations have gained and lost land. If you feel all that badly I guess you could always go back to where your family came from. You'd find the same type of history there also.
Ineptocracy
New
Word:
Can't find it in my old Webster's. Google
says
it's a recently coined word found on a T-shirt on eBay. Read this one slowly and
carefully to absorb it fully!
Ineptocracy
(in-ep-toc'-ra-cy) - a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of
society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods
and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of
producers.
I love
this word.
Finally,
a word to describe our current political situation.
L.J. Rhodes writes:
Plus:
L.J., there is no "portmanteau" of Islam and terrorist involved. "Islamist" is simply shorthand for a politicized Islam (or those who embody such aims) which extends far beyond the mosque into politics and state governance. It does have a negative connotation, yes, because it's a dangerous path as seen for example in Iran where political Islam inexorably led to a brutal theocracy that rules with an iron fist.
TJeff, history shows money doesn't make an army. Ho Chi Minh City would be Saigon today if it did.
The Bolsheviks of 1919 Russia were almost penniless yet they won their civil war against both the White armies and foreign interventionist forces--impressing the hell out of the American soldiers with their fighting spirit.
I wouldn't count on the average Saudi Arab to back the royal family on the ground unless Iran actually invades. Their air force might be worth something, if our pilots are in an AWACS with them. It will be the Falklands, 1982 all over again.
Riiiiggghht! So now Obama has sent his SOS to do the lying for him! They supported this muslim from the get go knowing full well that he was backed by the terrorist related Brotherhood! The new Egyptian pres will say anything to get the funding that Odumbo promised, then they'll turn around and start the same old BS religious wars with Christians, Jews, anyone who isn't Muslim. Here's a clue: It's all about the money!
Maybe it's just me, but in every picture of Hillary I see lately she is looking rougher and rougher.
Hillary & Keith Richards would make a cute couple.
Um, Curt.....They've been here 10,000+ years......so, I guess you are saying anyone bigger than us can come take over and be justified...uh-huh...sure, and you don't own a gun either. Thinking you don't have any Native Blood, or any agreements with the Government that have been broken.....yet. Hang in there, Dude, it could get rough for the closed hearted soon.....
L.J.Rhodes - Islamist is a word in the dictionary. Definition - supporting or advocating Islamic fundamentalism http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/islamist
What a hypocrite! Tell that to the dead in Syria!
Really? Then send the millions of tax payer money you wasted on it back to us!
I wonder WHEN the Jews in the US will finally see through her! Does Debbie Wasserman-Shultz put her politics above her Jewish homeland?
So your saying that our diplomats should be meeting with the "9%" and should not have talks with the "91%" ????? And that clinton herself went to Egypt and campaigned for the 99%? Do you trolls ever get tired of your own insanity?
Remind us who Hillary gets her marching orders from? (Hint: it's not "we the people")
Let's not forget that Clinton was in Laos too, promising money for bomb removal and other things. The amount was never disclosed that I know of but it looks like Camp Obama will be passing out checks way into the upper millions, wiping away billions if they are elected again. People of the United States, wake up before November.It's time that America kept their nose's out of ALL the worlds problems. We cannot afford to fix the world, NOR do we want too. Let's fix America first. Did I miss something? Is this money in the budget for next year or did China write us another check? Cause we DON'T have the money for this. Just my opinion, but here's where the new Health Care dollars will go. Sheep, they love to be Sheered. No Mas, No Bama 2012.
LJ Rhoades, lets say 5% are terrorist how many does that make?
K I,
That site also has an entry for MILF. Dictionary.com isn't an academically recognized or accepted dictionary. It will have words that have made it into the public lexicon even when such words don't belong in an academically-sanctioned dictionary...or in responsible journalism.
Adam44,
We don't call politically active Christians Christianists. We simply call them Christians, as we do all followers of Christianity, regardless of their political affiliations and endeavors. I stand by my assertion that Islamist is meant to perpetuate the misguided notion that Muslims are terrorists by their very nature, when the vast majority of them are no more so than the vast majority of Christians.
And let's not forget that Christians are just as active in trying to instate theocracies the world over. Look at the Vatican, for one. And American Christians who keep voting into existence all manner of legislation that amounts to nothing more than forcing everyone to adhere to the tenets of Christian doctrine.
If you're going to knock one religion, you need to knock all religions that engage in the same kind of behavior that prompted you to knock the initial religion. Otherwise, your indignation loses all credibility.
LJ Rhodes you didn't answer my question.
wlee,
Your question was loaded, to say the least. It's not that I didn't answer it. I flat-out ignored it.
Surprise, surprise, Christians claiming that everyone is against them. Some things never change.
There is never a middle ground to take with religious zealots. If you don't hate our enemies as much as we do, then you are our enemy too.
I wish there was a cure for religion.
I wish there was a cure for ignorant know-it-alls.
Yep. Just another way to say the same thing.
I wish there was a cure for "boneheads".
I wish there was a cure for ignorance Snakebone because your first claim, that Christians always feel everyone is against them and that things have never changed, is a complete mock on reality. Look at the Roman Empire and how it persecuted Christians at the inception of the faith based following. Funny how Christian based organizations are the first ones to respond to famines and plights in third world countries. Societies in Africa that are Christian based (such as in Kenya) are being squeezed out by Islamist based societies (such as in Somalia).
Things will come full circle.
Riley--
Oh the romans! You forget that Christianity as we know it came about because the romans converted to Christianity and used it as an excuse to attack and enslave people all over Europe. AND to continue persecuting jews.
As for the charity in Africa, you can see how well that has worked out, with Nigeria executing gay people. I wonder what price tag goes along with aid to Africa? I bet those kids can't get any help unless they show their cross first and say thirty hail marys.
Christianity is one of the biggest contradictions in history. Jesus advocated equality, forgiveness, tolerance and pacifism (sadly). But the institution of Christianity has caused war, persecution, class division, and murder--all because it perpetuates the illusion that the whole world is against it. Well guess what? The world knows that old trick, and it's getting real old.
motegaze
In the Contantine take over of Rome. Christianity moved from persecuted to hiijacked. This is a key failing of your understanding of Christianity. Since that time Christianity has struggled with getting fully to what Christ fully intended.
You are confusing Christianity with gaydom.
montegaze, you're right about the first two, but not the second two. Pacifism is to never resort to violence. Although Jesus was calm and collective and told us to turn the other cheek, violence, when justified, is still ok. When Jesus saw the temple of God being used by merchants to sell goods for people to use in their offerings, he was upset that the place of worship had been used for people to make money, and quite likely in not an honest way. He, calm and collectively, crafted whip and physically drove those people out, turning up tables in the process.
As for tolerance, many people confuse that as being something good. Jesus taught us to love one another, not tolerate one another. If someone is ruining their life by alcohol abuse or some other means, to tolerate their choice would be to do nothing about it, where loving them would be to actually do something about it.
You're right that some institutions of Christianity have done some disgusting things, but they were caused by some very misguided human beings, not the doctrine of Christianity itself.
Can you put this in perspective!!! The Crusades have been over for about 1000 years... We aren't in fear of a Christian or Catholic terrorist group; they aren't the dirtbags blowing up innocent victims or enslaving women.
Major problem with the Middle East is lack of maturity. Just about all factions are overly sensitive and whiny like spoiled teenage girls: if you're not foursquare with them, they go into a snit about your being against them and hating them and wanting to ruin their lives :D
Obviously the US was hoping the Islamists lose and we would've preferred if some liberal secular won the election instead. But it didn't pan out that way, so WTF are we supposed to do? Ignore all the "pro democracy" talk we've been throwing around, dis the guys who actually won the election, and hold the hands of the losers and do some abracadabra magic to make it all better that'd put them in power instead?
HAHAHAHA...Suck it Obama! These Egyptians see you for the Islamophile you really are.
I see the anti-Christs are out tonight in full force....
Coptic Bishop Morcos and Evangelical church leader Safwat al Bayadi refused to meet with Clinton because of what they characterized as U.S. support for Islamists while ignoring the majority of Egyptians.
Question: if, and that's a big if, we support the Islamists, how are we ignoring the "majority" of Egyptians when Egypt is 90% Muslam. Seems to me if your religious group makes up only 10% of a countries population YOU are in the minority.
Nah, The Egyptian Christians are WRONG.
There is no way in the World that this Administration BACKED the rebels (turns out to be the Muslim Brotherhood as expected) during the "Egyptian Arab Spring".
And, when Mrs. Clinton just met with the NEW President of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood and WAIVED HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of taxpayer dollars for Egypt's (all Egyptians) debt to the United States was no indication that this administration continues to support the Muslim Brotherhood.
Or, that the United States has given Egypt (all Egyptians) $ 2,000,000,000 in aid this year doesn't mean that this Administration supports the Muslim Brotherhood.
Finally, the meeting between the Muslim Brotherhood official (with ties to a KNOWN terrorist group) and HIGH ranking administration officials in Washington D.C. is no indication that this Administration supports the Muslim Brotherhood.
Nah, someone has their wires crossed.
imwhitewolf,
Christians copts in Egypt 18,000,000 to 20,000,000 and in in USA 2,000,000 to 3,000,000, beside you have between 4,0000,000 convert to Christianity from Muslims but they can not pronounced because, what ever who convert his religion in Islam must die in the Muslim world and shariah and ahdees in Islam, if USA is supporting democracy why the obama administration is supporting a certain group call evil Muslim brotherhood, the Muslim brotherhood faked the election and did a lot of fraud and gave poor people rice and potatoes and oil to get their identification numbers and they faked the votes ballots by these numbers, they prevented Christians in Egypt in three states not to vote by terror that they will kill their families, the Obama administration pushed the high army to pronounce the winner as the fanatic islamisit President jailed person Mohamed Morsy instead of his competitor Ahmed shafeek, so Obama made the high army to fake the election and hand it in to the evil Muslim brotherhood also by funding Muslim brotherhood with money, USA is never get the lesson from supporting islamistis in Afghanistan and now they are fighting them, USA never learn.
@ Imwhitewolf: He is making a distinction between the majority moderate mulims and Islamists. The difference might be likened to your common garden variety athiest and Joe Stallin. i.e. the majority of athiests probalby do not advocate the mass genocide of those who disagree with them whereas stallin carried it out as an extremist. Most moderate muslims do not want war, but the islamists are generally the ones who incite or intimidate the rest to follow them. The copts believe and probalby rightly so that this administration is far more pro islamist than any other administration before President Obama.
Wow, I just looked at the last picture of Mrs. Clinton in the article again.
It appears she has had a stroke or something (reference the right side of her face). Time to see a doctor.
Or.....is it just old age ?
Tony D- You should read the history books more and less of the bible. It was only over a decade ago that Serb orthodox christians was going around Yugoslavia murdering women, children, elderly, and handicaps that were muslims and they also committed mass genocide against their maronite/catholic Croatian countrymen. Plus it was about the same time, that the Protestant and Catholics stop blowing up one another in Northern Ireland. Imagine a world w/o religions. More wars are started by religion than any other reason!
All these $$ going to another country to help another country. What's the deal? We need that $$ here. For OUR jobs, OUR schools, OUR infrastructure. They are raising OUR taxes in Washington, so that they can send it to Egypt, care of the Muslim Brotherhood. - What? -- Really?
Ido- I noticed Hillary's face also. also thought stroke? Cover half of her face with your hand. The one side looks really dead, or evil.
People shouting "Monica" Monica' "Monica"- first off, how embarrassing for Clinton.
Second- That's what you get for throwing the Christians under the bus! :)
ellen
@ Ido, I think someone sprayed some water on that side of her face..... LOL
"The four prominent Copts consider the meeting with the Islamist parties a form of external pressure to push the Islamists to power and ignore other civil movements."
They are hundred percent right.
They should have mentioned about the invention of Bosnia by interfering in Yugoslavia. Here Christians formed another sect.
Bill Clinton took active interest here.
See that cheap attorney Bill Clinton. For the dirty job by him, his University of Arkansas got $100 million grant from Saudis.
Hillary jumps as Jewish lobby wants her to dance. She does not understand much except monies and influence.
Who in the right mind will impose sanctions on Iranian oil and manipulate oil prices from $40 a barrel in 2009 between $80 to $100 right now?
Here again Sunni Saudis and their extremist Salaffi, MB, al-Qaida, Taliban will be stronger.
Examine results of Iraqi wars.
In Egypt, the troubles are starting. Christians, women and Jews will be hurt badly.
Wow, Sec. of State Clinton looks horrible. She really needs to drop 30 pounds. Too many State Events.
Maybe, Homer, but I'd still pop her. It'd look good on my resume. . .
Correction: Individual Christians maybe striving, but not Christianity.
No, wars are not started because of religion.
They are started because some greedy @!$%# wants more power, wealth, or land for him or herself, and will not fight for it by him or herself.
Religion just gets people to fight for your "righteous" cause.
If we had no religion, TRUST ME, it would be business as usual for the human race.
The Egyptian Christians are right. The Obama administration has totally backed up Islamists. They don't say anything even when Christians are killed. All during the "Arab Spring" not a word from our government about the attacks on Christians and the burning of churches. Not even a peep when western women reporters are attacked and raped on the streets. I've been so ashamed of this administration. We are supposed to be for human rights but I guess that doesn't include our own citizens.
That's because he was raised Muslim. That's where his sympathies lie. He even recites the shahada--which by Islamic law makes you a Muslim.
Rachel, I love the way you say things so truthfully, succinctly, and to the point. You always earn a click up from me.
While you fight one another, slave masters control all of you.
bevvar: Obviously, a well educated person like yourself follows American foreign policy and knows the policies of the Department of State. Perhaps, you simply missed the part about the firm protests by the Secretary of State against attacks on Coptic Christians in Egypt, the burning of churches, and the attacks against women. I'm wondering how such things got by such a well-educated mind such as yours and those who agree with you. Would you mind giving us your level of formal education and your formal knowledge of international relations and history of American foreign policy?
TJefferson-1649275 - bevvar is correct - This is the SAME Hillary that drank lattes while Rwandan's were getting hacked to death by the hundreds of thousands and whose husband pulled out of Somalia like a whipped little puppy dog at her urging after our armed forces were bloodied at Mogadishu. She is the same Hillary that hasn't had a cogent foreign policy that has achieved any measurable security for the USA or our allies. TJeff-Is qustioning someones education the best that you can do? That's the typical liberal response to anything they don't like - elitist snobbery and factifuging drivel. I suspect that you just hee-haw with glee every time the POTUS brings up Romney and Bain while ignoring the fact that while Romney was a successful business Obama was snorting coke in college. This is the science of the "smoke-screen" that propagandists use when they're really not doing anything of substance but want people to believe they're doing something - and the Clintons wrote the book on that! "Firm protests" by Hillary - about as firm as Methusalahs you know what. She's the best comedy entertainment next to Nancy Pelosi in the Muslim world,and they have been playing her, and the POTUS like puppets on a string. Oh, my vita, 3 degrees including doctoral level AND 38 years of working for the Federal Goverment. Not that anyone cares except you.
JP: First, you cannot possibly hold three academic degrees, including a doctorate in any field and write BS as you have done. No competent university would award you even a bachelor's degree given your ability to analyze factual data. (Please, if by some outside chance you actually do hold an academic degree, what was your major? I do admit freely that I am absolutely astounded and frightened that some university did, in fact, award you a doctorate.) Second, yes, you may have worked for the federal government as a maintenance worker on some refuge, but I doubt anything higher than that.
TJefferson
Your response does not help your case, it destroys it. Misspelling government, though it may be a result of emotion, is priceless.
Education is not to be obtained to be lauded over another. The smartest people in the world do the dumbest things.
DB Akron: I take it your comments are directed to JP. Is that correct?
Do you think Obama, will call his Muslim brothers in Egypt, and get those two American Christian prisoners back?
Yes.
motgaze,
are you believe what you are saying, you are such an ignorant person, this is the new middle east and they gave in it to Muslim brotherhood evil terror group. i remember USA supported terror Wahhabi group in to beat soviet union in Afghanistan and at the end they are fighting now the terror group in Afghanistan. the same history will repeat it self, i am sure Jesus will take care of these Muslims brother and whoever support them .
Take it or leave it. Hillary looks too cheap to occupy any post.
Look at the world scenario!
When most don't care for religion much these days, followers of Islamic cult, especially Sunni Saudi inspired Islamic radicals and militants (al-Qaida, Salaffi, Wahhabi, MB, Taliban and other label ones), are fast marching backwards to their seventh century desert tribal days of rapings, lootings, killings and genocides of non-Muslims.
We see Muslims inventing problems in most of the non-Muslim nations.
Even in the US, we can notice these actions! Riots in Dearborn, Michigan is one example. Due to them, air travel has become hell.
When Muslims form more than five percent, downhill march starts.
Muslims are inventing problems in Thailand, Philippines, India and other places.
When they form more than 30 percent then it is Sudan, Darfur, Somalia, Nigeria, Lebanon (few decades back).
Now Egypt story will start. Track record will be worse due to Sunni Saudi Islamic religious Nazis like MB, Salaffi and others.
In Muslim majority nations, they kill each other as in Syria, Pakistan and other places!
Better wake up before it is too late on inventions of problems by followers of Islamic cult!
Who with liittle sense will do the dirty jobs of Saudis in Syria, Iran and others.
If Saddam was there at least Saudi backed Sunni Islamic extrmism would have been under check. Now the Saudi and Paki Islamic religious Nazis are responsible for 80 percent of world problems.
@
shamrock66646
Do you think Obama, will call his Muslim brothers in Egypt, and get those two American Christian prisoners back?
Not a chance in an Islamic Hell...
You don't need a degree to see that Obama, Hillary, and the rest of his staff are a joke, and an embarrassment abroad.
Credentials: HS diploma, majored in pot smoking
Hillary looks rough in this travel picture, I would run from her too. Hopefully, she can have the quick reflexes like Bush from the flying shoes......
Ha Ha Ha. She looks like she ran a marathon, ate 24 donuts, found out Bill is still banging Monica, and is coming down from an intense 4 day meth buzz.
Monica looks like Rosie ODonnell, I doubt anyone is paying her any "visits".....
Bills motto is: " Lower your standards, and increase your average".
Also known as " Any port in a storm"
Even Monica looks better than Hillary nowadays. That's not saying much.
Rode hard, and put away wet. She should try a salad.
She gave up on her looks because she hasn't slept with Bill since they were in the White House, their marriage is a sham. I wouldn't want to meet the hag either.
You'll be looking at Hillary a lot more in 2016.
If that's true, wildcat, it would be great if she got Keith Richards as her running mate.
Ol hillary, is looking like shes being rode hard and put away wet....
She probably has a hang over. I suspect she is a working alcoholic from what I've seen in the news about her.
Boy, the Secratary of State is looking a little rough in the photo.... Has she had a stroke? Her right eye looks like it isn't tracking with her left eye.
She is still twitching from "CigarGate".
Any time someone who wears the name "Christian" and acts in an un-Christian manner is guilty of sin.
Not a situation reserved for Christians; we all have feet of clay, regardless of our beliefs. Apparently, when it comes to humans, the "creator" has some quality-control issues. Maybe this planet is the "reject" bin.
My question is: how come we put the worst of the rejects in charge?
Wait a minute - just figured it out: crap floats.
That means: except Muslims other religious groups are not supposed to air their problems.
By any chance, do Muslims have special one-way traffic lanes in the world?
So, all the hoaxes of human rights, freedom to practice one's religion, secularism, democracy, love, peace and so on are determined by Saudis, oil companies, lobbyists and Netanyahos.
If monies are so important, we can also pool monies and throw you people some.
If some imagine that they are smart, let us non-Muslims/infidels make it clear to likes of you: we are smarter.
Seems the Muslim Brotherhood is already posting their anti-copt propaganda.
You would think our President, and these pro- Islamic Americans would realize the Copts, the Jews, and the Christians do not want to kill them and force their religion on them at swords edge or by suicide vest.
The free worlds greatest threat is Islam. Yet congress still had to shoot down Obamas $500,000,000 gift to Palestine. At least congress knew it would only free up assets for them to launch massive attacks at Israel, and they shut it down.
Hope you see the big picture.
Let us support Shiites in Syria, Iran, Pakistan and other places.
Who can better control the Sunni Islamic religious Nazis better than Shiites (I won't explain too much of them)?
Shiites are also infidels like us for these Sunni Islamic religious Nazis.
If they keep busy fighting each other, we will have a breather.
If Saddam was there Sunni Saudi Islamic religious Nazis would not have spread so fast.
Saddam would have kept these Saudis, Kuwaiti, UAE and other bigoted barbarians and beasts under check.
They have been since the start...still waiting for the breather.
Most of these Copts that came to the U.S. got their residency claiming to have been discriminated against in a predominantly Muslim Egypt. I worked for the government and listened to their rhetoric for years. Yes, it's true that they're a minority in Egypt and yes, their churches have been burned and it's easy to be discriminated. However, they whine on and on and it's tiring. They become bigots here in the U.S. and hate Gays, women rights and are no better than the people they left behind. They go far, far right on the Republican side and eventually end up as Evangelists rather than Copts. Our President is NOT an undercover Muslim. His orders helped to get Ossama and Al Qaeda's #1 and #2 guys as well as doubled the drone strikes over Muslim countries such as Pakistan. Those that continue to blame our President and think he favors Muslims over Christians are crazy. If they can do a better job, get on the ballot before November or shut up. Those Copts that lie or get radical in the U.S. should be subjected to deportation. We don't need anymore bigots than we already have here.
Mike Aziz ------ Then what would you have us do with the Muslims in this country that prefer Sharia law be imposed in violation of our constitution? Should they be deported? Or is it OK as long as it's Muslims?
By the way , since Muslims call Jew pigs and apes does that make them bigots?
gary, there are a lot of Christians in this country who want theocracy as well. Should they be deported? We don't deport people for wanting things. THAT is in the Constitution too. The Constitution will be defended. We only deport people for breaking the law.
gary: The Untied States is made up groups of people who hold very different beliefs, and they all have the right of freedom of speech. Yes, there are some Muslims in the U.S. who want Sharia law adopted as the legal system for their culture; there are others who do not. There are some Caucasians in the United States who want to impose Hitler's Nazi Party as the legal political system for the Republic (go to the Nazi Party website and read what they say); there are other Caucasians who do not. There are some Muslims who call Jews pigs and apes, and there are some Jews who call Muslims the same. That does not mean that ALL Muslims and ALL Jews do that. Only pitiful, uneducated, concrete, minds like yours do not understand it.
gary-309869
yeah, Gary, keep spreading that GOP lie that sharia law will be installed in this country...give me an f'ing break. It ain't gonna happen. It will never be the legal law of the land you a** clown
I think Obama gave up osama for the cause. Take the pressure off of himself. Sacriface Osama
usmc201...Your moniker projects your possible branch of military service...if so, I must say I am not sure what you are trying to express but if it is what it appears...I can't believe a brother in arms would make such a statement.
USMC
1970-71
So, you are saying only non-GOP-potential-voters should ever be allowed to come to America? wow! I have really heard it all now, do some of you actually read what you write in these posts?
If someone such as Romney made a statement like that, (Mexicans shouldn't be allowed in because they will vote Democrat...) the press would crucify him. But you find no issue saying it yourself. Amazing.
@ ranks from seattle: You know, the Dems should be just as adamant about protecting the constitution from sharia law as the GOP.....time to show your true allegiance, Seattle....
mike,
get lost, copts are the owner of this country and they get treated as a second class and Muslim in Europe and USA are immigrants and they are cursing USA and mention that USA an infidel country and they get treated as an original citizen , so mike get lost
A vote should soon be taken if now is the right time for Israel’s
Jews to leave their dangerous neighborhoods and Emigrate to California. In the
50s many NYC Jews left their crime ridden ghettos, sold their homes and became
residents of sunny California. But those
who are deeply rooted in Israel will not leave without a profitable garage sale.
Good fortune is knocking; Saudi princes
have offered 7.5 trillion Shekels for the entire Holy Land including Jerusalem.
It is wise to accept the Saudi buy out and hop aboard the Exodus Flotilla. The citizens of California would welcome the Jewish
arrivals; their Shekels will jumpstart an ailing California economy.
I'm all for giving them Mexico, that is after they evict the Mexicans to the south.
Yes, they are welcome here. They can buy my house with that Saudi money. Great starter home, needs TLC, fixer upper, only 1 million dollars.
Some of our ancestors believed that about US back in the 30s, and they came here only to besent back to the nazis. Today some of us enjoy living in USA, but we don't take it for granted and don't expect it to last forever. We belive the main reasonit's safe to be jewish in USA at the moment, is that Israel is a valuable ally to USA, and if tis gone, the fun is over.
That's why Israel stays, and that's why your islamist friends are not taking Jerusalem again, not a chance.
There are still some Mexicans left in Mexico?
Wha... ?
What an odd thread.
Diatribe--
I agree, odd.
Eli--Who, once admitted here, was ever sent "back to the nazis"? Now the Cold War has ended, Israel's value is decidedly less and its leaders know this well. They have attempted to improve relations with the new Russian Federation, as they should with so many ex-Soviets now living in Israel. Israel's big problem now is a parasitic and ever growing class of ultra-Orthodox who try to use their numbers to live at the expense of the state.
There's that Christian "love" again. Kinda reminds you of the "love" that Jerry Sandusky gave those young boys in the Penn State showers!
Got the visual in your mind Leroy ? Maybe that's your real problem.
You must have known Jerry that reminds you.
† This is just the beginning of birth pains regarding the hopeful adjoining of Egypt and the U.S. After nearly thirty years of rule by Hosni Mubarak, now the U.S wishes again, to bring about a cementing of democracy, by delivering 1.5 billion in so-called, (financial aid). There will be civil unrest, killings, an influx of outside groups, and a continuation of civilian vs. military confrontations. Money shall not be considered to be any gurantee, to tow the line of democracy. The U.S. believes that by delivering this huge sum of cash, will bring about a stabilization of the region. Part and parcel of this would be an additional vote cast by Egypt in the U.N. for .......?
By trying to purchase another country by means of (financial aid) has proven to be a negative factor, time and time again. Yet, the U.S continues down this road, for they know no other way to bring about friendship. Let us look at some countries which were given financial aid in the past: Iran and Vietnam. Naturally the U.S. efforts were totally wasted in Iran, when the Shah lost control. The new regime did not care to be bought with money. In the same instance, Vietnam did not seek to relinquish their principles, to receive any money. If anyone disagrees with this, could any perceive that the U.S. could be bought for a price, and walk in the standards of the purchaser?
The same results will occur, with the same outcome; the Americans being taxed more. This is leading the U.S. right down the road of destruction.
Hillary looks like she was rode hard and put away wet. Question is, who would want to ride her?
I wouldn't kick her out of bed for eating crackers.
The black Panthers !
Not Bill that's for sure.
"We support democracy. But democracy has to be more than just elections. It has to mean that the majority will be protecting the rights of the minority."
The majority of anything is just that.
A majority.
Liberal thinking like this is very dangerous.
Criminals, pedophiles, rapists, thieves and the like are all minorities.
If you are talking about religion, it even gets worse.
Now you can use Muslims for the prime example.
They are supposed to all worship Allah, but the have divided into sects.
Add Christians (infidels) into the mix and you can never hope for peace.
SO, in this instance the majority needs to always come out on top, because they don't give a rats about the little guy.
Protecting the rights of minorities does not mean criminals, and you know it.
Jock, As it stands, the criminals already have too many rights.
Ever notice how 99% of violent crimes are committed by the 99%'ers ?
One question Jock: How does 1% put close to 50% of all elected officials in office for the last 150 years in cities, small towns, in suburbs on all levels of government.
Answer: 99%'ers are closer to 50%'ers, as close as 1%'ers are.
Jock, minorities if one looks at ratios, are the cause of a vast majority of crime in the United States.
I was using it as an example to the most extreme.
But the basics are still the same.
In America you can take the electoral system as another example.
Some people are afraid that their little states will not meet the same ideals as the larger states in an election.
This is ONE United States.
If you live in a small state that has different ideas about who should be president, you should either move,
or try to spread your ideals to the other states.
Democracy only works if the majority rules.
Viewer: you appear to be supporting pure democracy, which has been around for a long time and has never worked, because the tyranny of the majority notoriously is a vicious and brutal thing when there exist no minority rights. Madison knew this very well, which is why our guys did not create a pure democracy, but were in fact the first Western nation, alongside France, to create a constitutional democracy. I think it worked pretty well.
Liberals will be happy to take the credit for that, if you insist.
Snakebone, what they might have tried to create was a mix of ideals.
In a free society, especially one driven by capitalism.
This will not work.
We are a republic, and a United States that is capitalistically driven.
Democracy is the only way to make this work.
The majority will always rule anyway, constitutions, laws or not.
seems like in this country, when the GOP is in charge, screw the rest...when the Dems are in power, then they whine about not being heard...what a-holes
Viewer0Randy: We don't live in a democracy for that very reason. We have a Constitutional Republic. Because everyone knows that a true democracy will eventually loot the treasury. Sort of what has happened in the USA ever since they allowed the people to vote directly for the Senators....
We have to agree to disagree Stunned.
I do believe in term limits.
But a president does not really count for much anyway.
He is just the leader of his herd.
We should be able to vote nationwide on ALL elections.
Viewer_Ready,
You need to look up "tyranny of the majority". The concept of the tyranny of the majority is hardly a liberal concept. According to WikiPedia: The phrase "tyranny of the majority" was used by John Adams in 1788. The phrase gained prominence after its appearance in 1835 in Democracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville where it is the title of a section. It was further popularised by John Stuart Mill who cites de Tocqueville, in On Liberty (1859). The Federalist Papers refer to the broad concept, as in Federalist 10, first published in 1787, which speaks of "the superior force of an interested and overbearing majority."
A book by Edward Klein claims Hillary Clinton is a lesbian.
When this becomes common knowledge in the Middle East, Hillary will not be welcomed by the Muslims either...
The Marine escorts in 1993, were commenting on Hillary's girl-friend, when I was stationed in Quantico...
So?
SLUUUUURP !
ACRobertson: I read a book entitled, Mein Kampf, and thought it was the worst book I ever tried to read. The thesis was that of a mad man, and his logic and "evidence" for his thesis was pure BS. Using your logic, however, the thesis about Hillary Clinton is true because the book is in print. Do you think you should possibly rethink what you're saying?
TJefferson-1649275,
No, I base my opinion on the eye-witnesses that were escorting her and her girl-friend, in 1993...
And I think it is ludicrous to send a US representative into a society that would put her to death and expect her to be respected...
ACRobertson: What did the eye witnesses see Hillary Clinton and her girl friend do?
Thats why she wasn't pissed at Billy. Bill, should've used protection that is one ugly kid they have.
ACRobertson,
"A book by Edward Klein claims Hillary Clinton is a lesbian."
I wonder if Bill knows that. Maybe you should take it upon yourself to inform him.
Please, don't tell me her gf is Rosie O' Donnell. Thats a sight, I don't wanna imagine.
You are a cad.
Bill Clinton has known this for years.
She has always used him and he her for political reasons.
Why do you think that Hillary never dumped Bill after she found out about Monica and the rest?
It's simple, her girlfriend would have kicked her ass if she did.
Snakebone the cure for relidgion is not far off its called Judgment day in two more decades there will not be a relidgeous person left alive in the world. ITS that time to start the next age whith a new slate=coyote
Cool. So you get to take personal responsibility for your actions in keeping yourself morally pure, and be ready to meet Jesus and hang out in happy land, unlike those sad fools who are forced to exist in eternal torture. That's a great goal, and I hope we can agree that it can be achieved entirely without concerning oneself about the morals of other people, including those of different religious faiths, or even no faith at all.
If the religious would all stipulate to that, we wouldn't need a cure for religion.
Judgement day is nothing more than a self fulfilling prophesy Snakebone.
I am sorry, Egyptian Christians, that we couldn't send someone who is actually qualified instead of a former President's wife because she bullied our incompetent President into appointing her.
Maybe Peyton Manning's wife will play quarterback in the NFL next.
etviking: I suppose it doesn't make any difference to a genius like yourself that Secretary Clinton is held in the highest regard among the nations' of the world.
Peyton Manning's wife probably has a better arm than Tim Tebow...
Tjeff.........give us some proof that that is the case or is it just rhetoric?
I must have missed that particular poll. Source?
As a poll, it smells "home-grown" to me, Adam......
Invention, yup.
GCCal, Adam,
It may not be a world-wide poll, but in 2011 she was the most favored US politician:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2038283/Hillary-Clinton-Americas-popular-politician-One-wish-President.html
Only because she was out-of-politics and off the radar screen for a couple of years while she traipsed around the world. Now she's coming back into sight and it's pretty ugly.
A photo caption in this story reads:
Doesn't match the headline or the story. Why make it appear that all Christians snubbed?
The rest of the world can see that obomba favors islamist over Christians and the idiots that still support the fraud that is obomba are just that....idiots
Kathy Carter: Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm..... The President has a funny way of showing his loyalty to radical Muslims given the numbers of high ranking Taliban and al Qaeda American drone aircraft have killed in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iraq, not to mention the Muslim pirates of Africa. Would you mind telling us your level of formal education?
Too bad everyone can't be as smart as you, Kathy. Guess I'm just glad they don't show as much hate as you.
Well, until you ARE as smart as Kathy, maybe you oughta close your mouth for a while......you might just learn something!..............................but, I doubt it....
Why does everyone think Obama gives the orders for the drone missions and the raid that killed Bin Laden, there's a thing called the Chain of Command and the President does not give direct orders to a single squad or pilot, imbecile!
T.Jeff what's with you and people's level of education? They are called opinions , and like you everyone has one.
That's one way to get your point across to Hilary...don't see her, snub her, be a child. All religion sucks!!!!!
gary-309869 you said "The Islamists deny the right to freedom of speech , press , religion and equal rights for women."
Sounds like the Republican party to me.
tacky....really tacky
tacky ....what a perfect name! Have you EVER been to an Islamic country? Do you know anyone who was born and raised in Saudi Arabia or Iran?
If you do not, then refrain from revealing yourself to be utterly ignorant. You obviously have been raised on propaganda and have never emerged from your little bubble world.
Islamic countries violate women's rights in the worst ways. And our so called ally, Saudi Arabia is the worst. There exists TRUE apartheid, gender apartheid. Where are you and your progressive friends in defending the rights of these unfortunate women?
Why not favor Islamists over Christians? Islamic countries control over 2/3's of the oil and wealth over Christian countries and its oil is easily accessible when there is political stability in the Middle East and Africa. America does not have to worry about oil spills and irreversible damage to the environment.
Nanson....go back to your third world country, your a couple of hundred years behind how you need to think!
The article said that Egypt was 90% islamic, so, we're supposed to perform our diplomacy through the 10% minority? The Copts should have been kissin' Hill's butt instead of turning their backs on her.
If the 90% majority has the presidency and with the new elections they will have the legislature, I see a move towards sharia, which the military will object to, and then the bombs will start going off
Hillery needs a makeover drastically, the job is ageing her terribly!
Aging isn't her problem, she was ugly from day one of her adulthood.
For those who have brains, I want to tell you this is the most courageous position that four of the most respected and intelligent Christians in Egypt took to expose the collusion of this clueless Obama administration with Muslim Brotherhood and the hard core Islamists. The West will pay the price of their own stupidity in the near future.
As for those idiots who can not see beyond their ideology and keep on condemning the Republican Party, The Tea party movement, and conservative Christians, you can keep your head in the sand till you have your neck chopped off by the Islamists.
Coptic....well said!
Thanks 8acrelot, BTW the four Christians who refused to meet Hillary includes a woman, Georgette Killini, which has always defended the Human Rights of the oppressed Copts. She was in the Parliament during Mubarak's regime and she was one of the few courageous people who tried to expose the crimes committed by his party against the Copts, especially in the 2010 Christmas massacre in Nag Hammadi. In appreciation of her courage, the masses were praising her and saying that she has the courage of 100 men
Here's my take Coptic...
I have several very good Egyptian Copt friends. They are great people, I know many.
Every one I have ever met is full of hate towards muslims. Anything muslim. In fact, the Egyption Copts speak a different form of Arabic than do the muslims. They demand separate classes in public schools, partly because the language of muslims (arabic, btw) offends them. Although they speak arabic as well, it's rather like blacks demanding ebonics classes in a segregated public school system. Every copt I have ever known has a tattoo of a cross on their wrist. This is done at birth. That way they can stand out and stand apart from the rest of the population.
Egypt has mandatory military service which needs to be completed before the age of 30. Copts do everything they can to avoid that, based on the claim that muslims treat them badly. They hide, they desert, in fact many of the copts come to the U.S. as a means to avoid military service.
Any minority that doesn't want to fit in with their own country knows they are begging for discrimination, and likely deserve it. If the black population in America demanded their own language, demanded exemption from the draft or other public service, demanded separate educational facilities, and spent all of their time insulting the rest of the country - I don't know if I would not expect quite a bit of retaliatory discrimination in return.
freedman, I grew up in Egypt in the time of Nasser, at that time we did not care if you are a Muslim or Christian, we were all Egyptians. Then Sadat came to power and to fight socialists, he released Muslim Brothers who were kept in concentration camps by Nasser, and unleashed them against all progressive parties. These radical Muslims rewarded Sadat by assassinating him in 1981, but before they killed him, they had started attacking Christians and thus sowing the hatred between Christians and Muslims. Mubarak had his deal with the devil, he let these lunatics attack Christians whenever he wanted to distract the country from his looting all of its treasures. Major attacks on Christians every few years drove a wedge between Christians and Muslims. When the January 2011 revolution started, Christians joined liberal Muslims against Mubarak, but at the end the only organized party, namely the Muslim Brotherhood, took over. This dashed yet another hope for a secular progressive Egypt, and right now liberals and Christians are worried about their survival in this crazy radical country.
To give you just one example of the madness of these idiots, Dr Magdi Yacoub is one of the top heart surgeons in the world, being a Christian he could not get a fair treatment in Egypt so he immigrated to UK and became one of the top surgeons honored by his adopted country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdi_Yacoub
In the last few years he went back to Egypt serve all Egyptians and opened a Hospital in Aswan to treat all heart patients for free, without giving any preferential treatment to Christians. Guess what, he was fought by some Egyptian who did not want him to succeed because he cut into their profits they made of the back of poor sick people. This week a Muslim doctor who is also a member of the Egyptian parliament started a smear campaign against Dr Yacoub telling the Muslims that he is defiling their kids because he uses pigs hearts in his operations, something done by all surgeons all over the world. What would be your reaction towards such ignorance, bigotry, and ingratitude?
The bottom line is that the feelings you detected in Copts towards Muslims were not there in the 1970's it is a growing reaction to what we lived through in the last forty years. It's just human nature and should not be surprising given that all it took is one cowardly act by Muslim terrorists in 9/11 to radically change Americans opinions about and feelings towards Muslims.
Very informative C.C. Thank you. I'm learning more about how Egypt arrived where it is now after reading your posts. I always thought that Sadat was a "good guy" but what you describe makes perfect sense in the world of political and idealogical "hard ball." It does make sense. He let the radical genie out of the bottle and it came back to kill him. And now? Really scary times are coming in Egypt, unfortunately.
Thanks Coptic. Yes, I know situations get very complicated.
The first time I ever met an Egyptian, we about got in a fight. He was working in a convenience store. I knew he was an Arabic speaker, and I am not, although I'd been trying to pick up some phrases. So I started off by saying "Ah-salom ah-lake-um" which is a phonetic representation of a greeting which translates into 'Peace be unto you.'
Man, was he pissed! With an angry red face, he told me to never come into his store and insult him again! I was flabbergasted. So I told him that look, I don't speak Arabic, but I knew this phrase, and why would anybody get mad for saying 'Peace be unto you.' The answer, of course, is that is only used to greet muslims, and HE was a Christian, and I should know better and figure things out! That was my first glimpse into the deep rift that exists. I withdrew my blessing, made the purchase, and began to look at things more closely. I have many muslim friends too, but none from Egypt, and I have not yet found one that displayed such a level of animosity. I also discovered that the Copts practice separatism from childhood. They are raised to distrust, dislike, and disassociate from other Egyptians who are muslim. Since that is 90% of the country, it seems like a crappy plan to me.
The middle east is torn up by organized religion. We don't have special code words here in the U.S. to figure out if we are speaking to an atheist, a protestant, or a catholic - we don't care. If you wanna go to church, please go. If you don't wanna go to church, don't do it. If any man chooses a relationship with God, that would be his personal choice - and a private one.
Thanks for the info on Dr Yacoub. It seems he was headed out of country from the get go. He qualified as a doctor in Egypt in 1957, did a spell as a houseman and then as registrar, and moved to England in 1962. I'm not sure he ever practiced medicine in Egypt. He is an outstanding physician, and a member of the Coptic Medical Society.
There it is again. Not the Egyptian medical society - the Coptic Medical society. Copts in Egypt are always seeking separate identities, separate lives. Given this mindset, it is guaranteed to cause friction with the 90% of the fellow countrymen. And, I have been told by my Egyptian friends that these 90% are not true Egyptians, that Egypt was stolen by the muslims, and only Copts are authentic Egyptians.
This, in my opinion, is a really stupid and self-destructive course. No matter what happens in life, the mindset is always one of victimization and discrimination. That is the mindset that guarantees a life of turmoil.
Hey nice post Coptic (23.4), although being a "student of conflict" it does pretty much boil down to saying "well they started it" which is an argument I have encountered so many times before about so many different conflicts, personally I think it'd be better to blame the Egyptian Copts current problems (well the ones that have been going on from the 20th century till now) on the doctrine of Nationalism, but seeing as many people still want to found their nations on that constitutional order I don't see it happening. As for the article and the US government engaging in dialog with the MB I'd have to say what would you rather happen? Would you rather the US had nothing to do with the new Egyptian government? As like what happened with Iran (because that really helped the situation didn't it?) Would you rather America play a more assertive role in Egyptian politics and thus completely discredit and undermine the legitimacy of its supported regime? Or would you rather drag a war weary (supposedly) American public into another "war of intervention" in the ME just to protect the rights of a minority that will end up fleeing anyway as they become even more of a target due to such intervention? Seriously what would you rather see happen?
Adam, it's true that Sadat released the genie that ultimately killed him, BTW El Zawahri, El Qaeda's leader, was one of those jailed for the assassination of Sadat.
Freedman, I am sorry for the behavior of this Copt, obviously one of our problems in the Middle East is that many of us are driven by emotion not logic, and do a very poor job in understanding other people's point of view.
Losmuertos, Copts and liberal Egyptians are upset with the USA not because it's not siding with them but because it actively supported the rise of MB. Since the January revolution all American communication was one sided and focused only on dealing with MB. Many American politicians who visited Egypt since January 2011 had met only with MB, they never talked to any of the liberal parties in Egypt. This visit by Hillary were the first time that America tried to communicate with non-MB parties. For Christians and liberal Muslims this effort is too little too late. That is why some of them refused to meet her.
“Since the January revolution all American communication was one sided and focused only on MB. Many American politicians who visited Egypt since January 2011 had met only with MB, they never talked to any of the liberal parties in Egypt”
Well Coptic that doesn’t surprise me after all (to the best of my knowledge) when Mubarak was in charge his was pretty much the only party in Egypt (well aside from the MB) and that it was only during the revolution that other parties began to form (well round about, but I may be wrong) so with that being said, and with this being a “time sensitive” issue (after all don’t want an American trade rival like China swooping in) it made sense to deal with the biggest (and most organised) political group first and then engage the others later (when they have defined, and set their agendas).
Now I know that many are opposed to America dealing with the MB due to them being labelled as terrorists but one fact of political history is that yesterday’s terrorists often become tomorrow’s governors, just look at Shin Fein in Northern Ireland for example .
As for them protesting, well I say congratulations, it was a brave but ultimately futile gesture, after all now they have just given political ammo to the MB, after all if I was an MB spin doctor I’d be writing articles about how the Copts insult one of our major friends and allies (what with the whole pelting of food and the Monica remarks mentioned) and how they do not want to meet with the elected president in order to discuss their potential role in the countries future. Stuff like that, so again it was a brave move but ultimately not advantages politically speaking
Losmuertos, actually the dealing between MB and USA has negative effects on both parties. The United States appear to be siding only with Muslim extremists, on Obama's watch they refused to support the secular movement in Iran and allowed the Mullahs to crush it, and in Egypt they did not communicate with liberal groups and appeared to be siding with the MB; first against Mubarak, second against liberals, and now against the military.
The only good news for liberals in Egypt is that the relationship between MB and America can be used to discredit the integrity of the MB, because Israel and the USA are considered to be the enemies of the Arab nations.
Coptic Christian
Well time will tell on that count, I guess it’ll all depend on who’s better and using the media, the MB or their opposition
Wow...they were hitting below the belt by chanting Monica's name at her.
I don't know about Clinton, maybe she just follows
orders, but it is clear the Obama administration
is pro muslim and from all actions and policy has
a plan to destroy traditional American values.
So does the GOP...
@CedarHill It is true, Obama's policies were influenced by his affection to his roots because he grew up as a Muslim in Indonesia. As a president he has Muslim Brotherhood advocates advising him in the WH. The end results is a disastrous policy supporting Muslim Brotherhood in the Middle East, and allowing many radical Islamist to enter the United States, some of them were not allowed in the States during Bush's administration.
If he is reelected the Western civilization will be doomed.
@Dili.... can you forget your hatred for the GOP and see the real world as it is not as you imagine it
You got that right, CedarHill and Coptic. Obama DOES favor the Muslim extremists and it shows in most of his actions. When are you libs going to wake up. You call Conservatives sheeplings?? LOL!
I call them stupid.
Dave, that is so juvenile......but, I guess that's all we're gonna get to work with tonight.....
dave supports Pelosi enough said.