Why is this article written with such a biased stance?

Quite simply, NBC is employing carefully crafted Goebbelsian rhetoric to promote the agenda of elitists who wish to demote most of the world's population to serfdom.

There is absolutely no effect from pumping out trillions of barrels of oil and digging trillions of tons of coal, which had been stored in the ground for millions of years and then burning it. The heat generated and those released hydrocarbons have no effect on the earth or the atmosphere. It is just a cycle. Hell, if you don't believe me, ask Rush Limbaugh.

They left out the quote just to piss you off "economykiller"

Pure propaganda... and even if it's not, we'll adapt.

These are like ice cubes that can be readily remade.

economy:

So you believe scientists when they say this melting event occurs on average once every 150 years but you refute what they say about climate change. Did I get that right economy? Why are some scientists believable to you and some not? Just curious; are you a professional in this field of say, climatology?

You don't understand the quote that you threw out and you left out the rest of what was said. These kinds of melts can be expected ONCE every 150 years, so this one works with the numbers. However, the breadth of the surface melt is uncommon, even for an expected melt, and the depletion is still happening at an accelerated rate outside of the 150 year cycle. You can deny it all you want but only a little bit of the 97% is cyclical, therefore it is not normal and the quote probably wasn't added because you still wouldn't get that it's not good and not normal.

It does not matter how much you want to deny global warming, because it's upon us, and the consequences are already here.

Keep on denial. Every year it's just going to get worse.

Well, that is the current working hypothesis, but the point is, is that this melting is within the realm of normal, and no connection with climate change or global warming has been established. Saying it is going to get worse is simply a prediction based on limited observations.

I downloaded the 1889 satellite data, it didn't take long?

Way too many people..

Dam libruls! First they invent 'global warming' to destroy coorporate profits, then gieedy sientists recognize the potinteal for funding to do global warming 'research' so of course they interpret dada and records in an alarmist way to increise theyer funding. Naturally libruls quote the scientist's reports to rise the alarm and ruin more good oportunities for 'developing' earth's endless resourses for deserved profit at the expense of taxpayers on goverment owned land, and the sientists only encouraged by all the atenshun and additional funding keep inventing new 'worse case' scenairios so they can keep sucking of the goverment's tit destroying coorporations' acsess to that money for profits! It's all a librul conspiracy I tell ya!' If the dam libruls and greedy sientists don't stop it they are going to destroy the earth so none of us can make a profit of it!

You know the part that ticks me off? When the damage is completely, irrecoverably, irretrievably, irrevocably, committed, trillion of dollars have been lost due to urecoverable and massive property damage, coastal cities have been destroyed, the few remaining insurance companies are all but ruined, not to mention all the homes, businesses, and industrial centers lost, large scale migrations ever more to overcrowded landlocked cities with no new jobs, food supplies decimated, sewer systems eroded, and drinkable water sources eliminated due to savage weather systems, floods, blizzards, as well as increased hurricanes, tornadoes, droughts, etc. not one, NOT ONE of the deniers will ever have the guts to say, "gee, guess I was wrong not to see the symptoms then, it's all so clear now, global warming really is real, and it’s pretty obvious hundreds of years of human industrial growth, land 'development,' and many decades of over consumption took a very real toll on a limited environmental system. The reason? Small minds are incapable of being changed by facts, records, and data in the face of rigidly held dogmatic beliefs! Besides, by that time they will all be too busy using their hoarded semiautomatic weapons to rob and kill the few people who still have food, water, and fuel. They strongly remind me of a very small portion of all biological lifeforms’ anatomy.

Perfect example of global warming. Shame some people still don't believe.

Saying it is going to get worse is simply a prediction based on limited observations.

Right! You need more proof. I know that you are not going to read it, but here it is anyway. From National Geographic:

The rate of warming is increasing. The 20th century's last two decades were the hottest in 400 years and possibly the warmest for several millennia, according to a number of climate studies. And the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) reports that 11 of the past 12 years are among the dozen warmest since 1850.

• The Arctic is feeling the effects the most. Average temperatures in Alaska, western Canada, and eastern Russia have risen at twice the global average, according to the multinational Arctic Climate Impact Assessment report compiled between 2000

• Arctic ice is rapidly disappearing, and the region may have its first completely ice-free summer by 2040 or earlier. Polar bears and indigenous cultures are already suffering from the sea-ice loss.

• Glaciers and mountain snows are rapidly melting—for example, Montana's Glacier National Park now has only 27 glaciers, versus 150 in 1910. In the Northern Hemisphere, thaws also come a week earlier in spring and freezes begin a week later

If the pictures of the towering wild fires in Colorado haven’t
convinced you, Or the size of your AC bill this summer, here are some hard
numbers:

June broke or tied 3,215 high temperature records across the USA. That followed the warmest May on record for the Northern Hemisphere – the 327^th.Consecutive month in which temperatures of the entire globe exceeded the 20-th Century average,

Meteorologists reported that this spring was the warmest ever recorded for our nation - in fact it crushed the old record by so much it represented the “largest temperature departure from average of any
season on record"

Here is an interesting one - The same week SAUDI authorities reported that it had rained in
Mecca despite a temperature of 109 degrees, the hottest downpour in the planets history.

BUT THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE CLIMATE because
the Koch brothers ONE OF THE BIGGEST POLLUTERS IN THE WORLD and their GOP puppets told me so

Is climate change real? Probably.

Is it anthropogenic? Maybe.

Is there anything we can do about it? Nope.

Ice cores from Greenland's highest region do reveal that such island-wide thaws have happened every 150 years or so, at least over the last few thousand years

...please be done with this "end of the world" garbage....

Fils d'Artemis: I guess we could start by keeping the thermostat at 80 in the summer and 70 in the winter.

That would reduce US demand for electricity by 15 percent.

But of course, that would harm our freedoms. Silly me.

...not "end of the world," 'specialone. Only end of the techno-based-natural resource-devouring version of human society we have come to know as 'modern civilization.' You will be gone, probably, and I doubtless as well, but the World will still be here, many species will probably survive, rats, and roaches amongst them, not to mention millions of bacterial and virul lifeforms, but humans will rapidly recede from global memory as King of the Hill. I do seriously doubt before we are wiped out by a major event, like a large meteor strike, eruption of the world's largest volcano beneath Yellowstone National Park, or some as yet widely unrecognized danger we will again be within reach of building sustainable colonies on other planets or moons. To break it down so you can digest it, as a species our days will be numbered to our survival on this one exclusive planet. Pity that. I had hoped we would one day reach for the stars. (sigh) The irony is soul numbing. So close, and yet so limited by self interests and lack of imagination. Do you know what Einstein said? "If you want intelligent children, read them fairy tales, if you want more intelligent children, read them more fairy tales. Did you realize, Einstein did ALL his experiments solely in his MIND? Didn't think you did. Well, Einstein is gone, and my own days are certainly numbered. But after we are dust in the wind, and our billions have shrunk to numbers of an endangered species, the World will still be here, possibly, even with surviving life. I do like your optimism, pity it is misplaced.

And how many of you hand wringers out there have solar panels on your roof? How many have a Leaf in the driveway? Are you all players or posers? My guess is all posers.

No scientist has ever said anything about the "end of the world," and very few advocates have either. We are talking about significant changes that will disrupt things and cause very expensive problems.

Quite simply, NBC is employing carefully crafted Goebbelsian rhetoric to promote the agenda of elitists who wish to demote most of the world's population to serfdom.

that would be the kochs, the limbaughs, the romneys....

Phil, you still haven't told us why that matters. We are talking about science, not human hypocritical behavior.

Technically, jock59801, you are correct, but 'Phil'osophically Valhalla has an interesting point on his 'mind.' It also provides an opportunity to 'point' out to any interested, there is a $3,000 tax credit for getting solar panels installed before the end of this year, not to mention revenue for you from the utilities company, for, maybe, the rest of your life in the house you have the solar panels installed in? Word to the wise?

Dear Charter Members of The Flat Earth Society (aka climate change deniers): please note the following

"We can't lose sight of the fact that Greenland's ice sheet is losing 150 gigatons of ice a year"

Simple facts like that are glossed over in these ridiculous pseudo-science, drivel-infested, politicized blogs you point to all the time in defend your position on the non-existence of climate change. It's ok to stick your head in the sand, but put some sunblock on your backsides before you seriously burn yourselves.

Burning gunpowder causes the melting.

@Xerling,

Fantastic posts. Thank you

Mr. Binkie

Perfect example of global warming. Shame some people still don't believe.

You should reread the article. They did say it happens every 150 years.

jussayin-

In a few short years the Rocky Mountains will no longer store snow, it is already starting to happen. Denver, Las Vegas, Phoenix, parts of Southern California and every small town in between will all be unlivable due to lack of water. These people that think they will simply have better gardens due to warmer temperatures are in for a rude awakening.

You are crazy.

Please give me a specific date in which these areas will be "unlivable".

@Matt-776850

I lived in Vegas for quite a few years. Used to like going fishing at Lake Mead. I stop after a while (around 2001), because the water level dropped and never returned to normal. What caused it? Decreasing levels of snow melt from Colorado.

the western slope of the Rocky Mountains would need at least seven years of normal snowfall to bring southern Nevada out of its 12-year drought.

source

So yeah it's not that unbelievable that those areas Baddog40 mentioned can become unlivable.

It is called "summer"...

Hey --- stop confusing us with facts and reality. Climate change is junk science. I know because Rush told me and Rush knows everything.

Still of all that you believe and some that is unbelievable we are doing all we can,

China, India, Mexico, Russia and more still live in third world environments,

we will soon find out this planet isn't ours.

There may be a 3000 dollar tax credit to install solar cells on your house, but when it costs upwards of 25k to have them installed I doubt many in this economy are up for that "investment."

What is needed is what Japan and China are doing, and that is put massive subsidies into it, as long as the panels are made in America. It will save carbon and produce jobs. It can be paid for by the interest on Romney's Swiss bank account. (just kidding, but not by much!)

That translates into raising sea levels by one-one hundredth of an inch.

This is an emergency of the highest order. Cease all industrial activity at once!

The issue that most deniers make use of is that weather and climate (two different and only tangentially-related things) are not linear deterministic systems. They are chaotic systems. Period. If you do not understand what that means, you don't belong in the conversation at all. Try googling "lorenz strange attractors" to see how long we have known this.

The problem is that we do not currently have the math necessary to predict chaotic systems, even by approximation. It is a lot like the times when differential and integral calculus has not yet been "discovered." It was well known that many things were predictable, such as the thickness required for dams, but we didn't yet have the math.

Scientists use linear deterministic models of climate. They build models and then enter old data to validate. If the old data predicts today's climate, the model is considered validated. But the problem is that the models are always wrong. Warming is happening far more seriously and far more rapidly than the models show. If you want to look at a good example of such models, there are six such major models that are used to predict hurricane paths. All six validate for every huirricane for which we have records. But what they do is average the models (called statistical voting) to come up with the prediction because the six models almost always show vastly different paths for the prediction.

I have a little test that I do to see if someone has anything interesting to say about global warming. I tell them that a gallon of gasoline weighs about 6 pounds and ask them what would be the weight of pollutants (C, CO, CO2, SO2, O3 and H2SO4) that would come out of the tailpipe of the average car that burned that gallon of gas? If the person cannot come reasonably close, they have no idea what they are talking about.

And I have yet to find a single NewsVine denier who can answer the question.

@Rickeroo,

Sea levels at Norfolk, VA are up more than five inches causing the US Navy to spend billions to build seawalls, dikes, and to move facilities. They will be abandoning at least one drydock that will be overtopped before it can be built higher. But of course thet doesn't count does it?

I demand just ice.

I demand just ice.

Sometimes I wonder how bad things have to get before the GOP starts to wonder if something's wrong. During the Colorado fires, I was chatting online with a guy who was at a shelter because his house was burning down. The air around him was full of smoke and the outside temperature was about 100 degrees. He was calling me a "stupid liberal" for wondering if the climate was changing.

Just because something has happened before, like a heat wave, drought, or melt does not make it 'NORMAL'. It is the change in frequency of the events that make it abnormal, and Science shows overall that these changes are becoming more frequent.

What Science is not YET stating, but I will is that : You can not melt a mile thickness of ice over a century without more dramatic effects like: Sure, sea level rise which will be revised upwards over time. Some land areas will sink more than expected as well under rising water weight. Major ice break off events may lead to tidal waves far from the source. Geological changes under Greenland will start with earthquakes and may even escalate to tectonic shifts - you are redistributing massive amounts of weight across the planet. Volcanic action may cause sudden melt increases. There is potential for extreme events never seen by man.

The bottom line is that Greenland is not going to just melt like an icecube on the floor - be warned and get away from the coast - be an early bird.

One critical aspect of Greenland melting is how does the water get to the ocean. We were shown a dramatic scene of a bridge near the coast, damaged by meltwater, but this is not the whole story. Inland melt does not have a river gradient to follow, lakes are formed. Water under pressure penetrates flaws, fissures in the Ice sheet. Erosion occurs widening the crack and the lake disappears into the hole.

This water now lubricates the boundary between the ice and the underlying rock. This allows the ice to speed up it's movement downhill to the ocean. Glaciers where these lakes have disappeared, have moved up to 6 times faster than before the lubrication. There is a risk that large amounts of ice could slide off of Greenland if enough water penetrates the ice. The melt prediction in the article does not take water lubrication into account.

ED stated it well, absolutely.

It is the change in frequency of the events that make it abnormal, and Science shows overall that these changes are becoming more frequent.

Keep in mind that the extremes we expect to see have been seen before. There have been times when the poles were tropical. So the "it's all natural" crowd is partially correct.

The problem isn't the exact value of the extremes. The problem is the rate of change. If we went up 1 degree in 10,000 years, life could easily adapt. The problem is that the temperature is changing too fast for live to easily adapt, leaving vast swathes of the world more difficult to inhabit.

How do you explain a first order derivative to an idiot?

Sure, with sufficient technology, and fewer people, we could survive anything. If it's like 1,000 people, we probably have the technology to have them live till doomsday, for example. But the more people we have, the closer we have to live to nature, and if nature starts dying, more of us go with it.

Do you suppose the climate change deniers are going to volunteer to be the first?

Maybe 98% of the scientists are wrong. Maybe it is just natural warming cycles. Extinction is also a natural event; happens whenever a species over-runs their environment ... see lemmings.

First of all - this planet never was "ours". Anymore than the dog belongs to the fleas that live on it.

Secondly - we have way too many humans. The first and best thing we could do is start using contraception and start reducing the number of two legged creatures.

And lastly - make no mistake. The Earth - or Mother Nature - or God - or whatever you want to call it - will correct the damage we have done to this planet. We are seeing this now. As the ice continues to melt, other kinds of weather will become fierce as this Earth repairs what we have done.

If any of us are left afterwards, I hope they will have learned something and won't repeat what we have done.

Yup, looks like the planet is warming, again...

The planet has done this to itself numerous times without the slightest input from human beings.

Yes of course, the carbon energy we are releasing that was stored by past planetary ecosystems is not exactly causing the planet to cool, however, we are on this planet for the ride, not the other way around.

Assuming we can change a planetary phenomena is ludicrous and arrogant at best. We still haven't even figured out how to change the weather locally, how can anyone even dare to think they can change a planetary wide phenomena?

Bankrupting our societies to try and change something that cannot be stopped is insane. The planet will do what it does best, survive, change and clean out the trash on its own.

We may actually see that in our existence.

Does this mean the Ice Age is still in recession? Don't worry it will come back!

One thing you have to understand is that this has been going on for 11,000+ years and has happened over 30 times over the last 300,000,000+ years.

All this is based on 150 to 200 years of mans inaccurate records. the core samples are a better method of detecting a problem and they remain consistent. face it climate change is constant and normal, its going to happen no matter what, and it will head back the other direction no matter what, will you cry when the ice sheets plow over your home? you know that is going to happen some day in the not to distant future, ice advances, ice retreats then it repeats that is the way it works, don't be fooled man cant stop it, man cant change it, man can only make money by scaring the mindless. prior to a ice age carbon levels increase, carbon is caused by decomposing vegetation as well as volcanic activity fires and burning fuels etc, as the ice retreats we gain more forestation, resulting in more carbon (Co2) its all natural, so don't worry the Ice will return I guarantee it. did you know that a piece of wood rotting gives off just as much carbon as a piece of wood burning, the only problem we really have is overpopulation to many people passing gas and breathing but even so with or without you will always have Co2 entering the atmosphere till another ice age covers the earth and changes that" its a cycle", and I don't care how hard you try you are not going to change that cycle. carbon levels will hit a certain point and all of a sudden its a new ice age, the cycle repeats.

You want to fix the global warming send more money to Al Gore so he can build another mansion and leave the lights burning in every room. besides he needs another house boat he needs 3 to go with his coastal properties. oh he needs a bigger jet, donate till it hurts.

@ Chris

Sea levels at Norfolk, VA are up more than five inches causing the US Navy to spend billions to build seawalls, dikes, and to move facilities.

If glacial meltwater caused the sea to rise 5 inches, I would expect Boston, San Francisco and the Florida Keys to also experience the same thing.

Unless meltwater from Greenland and the poles decided to flow directly to Norfolk and form a 'hill' of water there and nowhere else, there must be another reason why Norfolk is seeing more water and Boston is not.

Norfolk is also sinking.

There will NOT be ANY sea level rise! The sea floor will sink, like it always has... LOOK UP PGRE... it might just save your life!

POST GLACIAL REBOUND EFFECT!

Um. There all ready has been a sea level rise of about 8 inches.

Byron Raum

Do you suppose the climate change deniers are going to volunteer to be the first?

You can bet we would be 'the first' as we were on Omaha Beach, the moon, and setting foot on the 'New World' over 250 years ago. Grow some balls dude.

yep justoneguy, you prove that delusion goes hand in hand with denial

Rebound would be expected for above sea level location, but the neary channels would then sink.

Wider channels could mean ocean currents change, if you wanted to see the gulf stream go further north, or be cut off from Europe, you'll have to wait.

The problem that is unique to the Greenland Ice Sheet is that melting that is not immediately replaced by snow from evaporation of the resulting fresh water can have a huge effect. Fresh water and sea water do not readily mix. This could eventually cause not so much a rise in ocean levels, but disruption of the North Atlantic Thermohaline Conveyor. This current brings temperate weather to Northwestern Europe. There is some evidence that the Gulf Stream, the beginning part of the NATC has lost about 30% of its mass and velocity. The results in British weather are well-documented.

This beggars the question: Has the NATC ever stopped. Large influxes of low density meltwater from Lake Agassiz (the largest freshwater lake ever known) and deglaciation in North America are thought to have led to a disruption of deep water formation and subsidence in the extreme North Atlantic and caused the climate period in Europe known as the Younger Dryas. This did not happen over centuries, but over the span of about 30 years. During that 30 years all humans and large mammals in North America went extinct along with about half the plant species. North America went from temperate to an arid frozen desert in just 30 years. There was no adaptation. There was only death.

Repeating what I said before, a glimpse of the future:

What Science is not YET stating, but I will is that : You can not melt a mile thickness of ice over a century without more dramatic effects like: Sure, sea level rise which will be revised upwards over time. Some land areas will sink more than expected as well under rising water weight. Major ice break off events may lead to tidal waves far from the source. Geological changes under Greenland will start with earthquakes, and more ice break-offs, and may even escalate to tectonic shifts - you are redistributing massive amounts of weight across the planet. Volcanic action may cause sudden melt increases. There is potential for extreme events never seen by man. Kind of like Pandora's Box.

The bottom line is that Greenland is not going to just melt like an ice cube on the floor - be warned and get away from the coast - be a smart early bird.

Chris-

Lake Agassiz drained south through the Missouri-Mississippi river drainage systems, not East through the St. Lawrence drainage system. There is well documented geological evidence for that. That does not deny that other glacial melt water from the last ice age could have drained out the St. Lawrence and diluted the North Atlantic and potentially shut down the conveyor.

Nature will correct our mistakes, although the human race may or may not survive the correction. Watch the National Geographic special, "Six Degrees" to see what happens next. By the end of this century, most people on earth will be working to hold back the sea. Construction projects to do that are already planned, for example, to 'save' NYC and the Mediterranean. Miami will be abandoned,and most coastal cities will be, as well. The California Delta will be inundated with salt water, destroying California's potable water system for about 40 million people.

Potable water will be a huge problem as more fresh waterways are invaded by the sea. Wars will be fought over water, earth's most precious resource.

After the seas are saturated with freshwater from melting ice at both poles (when Antarctica melts, doomsday--although most likely already here-- will certainly be nigh), salt will no longer prevent the sea from radically dropping temperatures, and nature will begin to reverse and bring on the cold. It won't happen overnight, as in "The Day After Tomorrow," but it could happen within a span of 30 years.

While we've been scrabbling about whether climate change is occurring and whether we did it, we've passed the tipping point and it's coming on now no matter what we do. Nature will destroy our civilization, but some humans will likely survive to start again from scratch. Maybe. Other life forms will survive, and new ones will appear, just like we're now seeing blue lobsters!

We do have 45 solar panels on our long, south-sloping roof--which is why we chose this house 22 years ago.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO SPEND ANY MONEY TO GET SOLAR PANELS--we are leasing our panels, installed at no cost. We're guaranteed electric bills 10% lower than our non-solar neighbors-- and if Congress would just pass a law allowing us to be paid for the electricity we give back to the public grid, we'd be making money on the deal! Congress, of course, is just there to stuff their pockets with corporate money. sigh*

When the lights go out in our neighborhood because a storm has knocked down a pole, or a car crash did, our lights stay on.

Any vacations we take, we take to do volunteer research with Earthwatch (Google them)--a great way to help & see the world not as tourists, but with native experience. Family members work summers for GreenPeace.

We should have learned from Native Americans instead of slaughtering them wholesale. Their practice of taking no action without considering its consequences for the next seven generations might have prevented Nature's Armageddon.

Perhaps humanity's fatal flaw is in seizing everything to itself on impulse without using the brains we were blessed with-- a supremely arrogant form of ignorance. Maybe all this is the ultimate consequence of that failure, right at the moment of its peak, when the phrase "every man for himself" has practically & politically become our national mantra.

Leasing is the absolute worst way to install solar panels. Add up you payments with a $0 down solar lease and you'll find that not only will you not receive the 30% tax credit or any cash rebate but you'll wind up paying at least triple for a solar system when compared to buying and that's a solar system that you won't even own even after making 20 years worth of leasing payments. And good luck with ever being able to sell your home with a lease attached to it. If you're paying more than $3.25 per watt for an installed, name brand solar system then you're paying to much.

Dee Turner

......, we've passed the tipping point...

don't you worry Dee....the 'big corporations' that you no doubt critisize will figure a way out of it for a price. The question? Do you have any money besides what welfare gives YOU?

Well, yeeha. Better grab a Coors from the 'frigerater and kick back to reruns of "This 70s Show". Life must be good, Soul Lice.

North Carolina won't have any problems, of course. They passed a law forbidding the ocean to rise.

Sure, think that way ARNEY, but don't complain when your environment becomes similar to something from millions of years ago. You like running from dinosaurs through hot flooded coastal swamps?

I don't Fourier is lowering the boom on anyone lately. He's been dead for well over 100 years.

Fourier, really?

"He's been dead for well over 100 years".... minor detail

I knew the idiots would be out to play.

Do climate change deniers here get paid by Dirty Energy? I realize half the people in America have IQs of 87 and lower, and that 80 is considered mentally slow, but--oh wait. That's just about the ratio happening in these posts!

I do notice, too, that climate change deniers--can't call them conservatives because that word means "to conserve" and that's clearly not their agenda--assign themselves web names that betray real angst. If they believe they're right and everybody else is wrong, what's up with that?

Fourier was the one who first brought up the idea, back in the 1820's.

And yes, it's the same Fourier as in Fourier series.

whats funny is that mark's comment is so typical of deniers and YEcreationists (both amazingly ignorant and heavily overlapping subsets of the american population). they will pull some out of context comment by a scientist made decades or even centuries ago and claim that said comment "proves" their point.

Dear Chicken Little:

Since humanity and all that humanity built is the crux of the problem, let's just give it up right now and depopulate this planet to a more manageable 3.5 billion human beings. You go first. Gun, knife or smallpox virus?

Waiting for your remedies Woody, instead of your whining

A pandemic isn't far off. Completely drug resistant TB has started in India, completely drug resistant gonorrhea has been found, it won't be long before something far deadlier becomes fully drug resistant and takes care of a good chunk of the population. What would be more effective is something that sterilizes, like the mumps. Oh, you also forgot that all of us people are exhaling CO2 24/7 too. I wonder why no one mentions that fact because it has to be quite a lot of it being put into the air.

Pandemics....global warming.... we are little people living on a large world...Don't build yourselves up so much - life and nature will outlive us no matter what...lol

Wow, 4 fags that I could smack the @!$%# out of all at once, and you are all so tough online.

The general 'tude here is @!$%# the world: that @!$%# ain't real. All 4 of you are bone heads, but no matter, you will never see the consequences anyway. Sucks to be dumb @!$%#s doesn't it ?

And how many solar panels are on your roof? Do you drive a Leaf? Are you a player or a poser? Come on, fess up! :<)

Wally:

There are no remedies because we have passed the point of no return. Anything we do now will be a waste of time.

Here we thought we would have to worry about an extinction level meteor or comet taking out the human species when all along it was us, mankind, that we should have been worrying about.

Ah, so this means that regardless of what happens, none of us are going to get old or die? Or does it mean that we will die? I'm confused. Now, what about pictures from the other side of the world? Do they also show the same kind of melting?

What are you going to do about it?

Woodshed been whacking off in the Toolshed too much. Everyone always thinks doomsday is going to happen in their lifetime, how arrogant we are as a species. Everything revolves around us right?

And how many active volcanos around the world spewing 1000 times as much toxic crap into the atmosphere as we can ever? How many wildfires? Have you helped put out that underground coal fire thats been burning for decades? What about all the underseas "vents" spewing gasses into the ocean? Id like to see a pie chart of all of the collective man made emissions compared to just ONE active volcano.

That guy

Either you are misinformed or not telling the truth.

"According to the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS), the world’s volcanoes, both on land and undersea, generate about 200 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) annually, while our automotive and industrial activities cause some 24 billion tons of CO2 emissions every year worldwide. Despite the arguments to the contrary, the facts speak for themselves: Greenhouse gas emissions from volcanoes comprise less than one percent of those generated by today’s human endeavors."

So are you just wrong or are you a liar? Pick one!

Good list, here is another problem that came to mind while examining my navel. If I'm not mistaken most fertilizer is made from oil. There aren't many replacements in the quantities required for 8 billion people. Oil is a finite resource, and will peak, become increasingly more expensive, then diminish. At some point world population will follow the same curve. We all gotta die, but for our children's sake, the rate of dieing should not be greater than the birth rate.

I'll admit that I am a pessimist. It was part of my job before retirement, to look for problems in big electronic systems before they happened. Salesmen would bind an gag me before a presentation to a customer. Likewise, the oil lobby doesn't want all this negative stuff being tossed around, they want to bind and gag all the pessimists that tell us that our oil economy needs to be phased out and replaced with something less destructive and with a longer time frame, such as solar power. So when our fossil fuel economy comes crashing down as it inevitably will who's going to fix it? Not me, I'm retired.

So, wje37fcfm; even though you are retired (obviously from the Naval Observatory), you are still "observing your navel"? Have a great day!

gotta love the absolute ignorance of people that claim that volcanoes spew 1000 times more CO2 than human activity does.

More scary than amazing.

oh look you got 1 vote. you must be so proud. the ignorant voting for the ignorant. now it's funny!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBvIweCIgwk

You wouldn't know REAL science if it came up and kicked you in the arse David.

The deniers need to tell their families that they love them and they're sorry for not believing and leaving this problem to them. Then they can go back to denying, you know they will. Morons.

David9000....... Here's your real science...... Several THOUSAND years ago, a man had a thought, that the earth was the center of the universe.... NOPE, man was wrong.... Several hundred years had passed, and a man had a thought, that the sun revolved around the earth...... NOPE, man was wrong..... A couple of years had passed and a man had a thought, that the earth was flat..... NOPE, man was wrong.......by now thou, only a couple of days had passed and a man had a thought, that by electing President Obama was the best thing, since the invention of the wheel.... NOPE, man was wrong...... The only real science is, MAN IS WRONG.........

GHOST-1325176: You must be kidding. Religious fundamentalism represented nearly every one of your failed ideas and it was science that proved:

• The sun in the center of the solar system
• The Earth is round

You wouldn't know science if it bit you in the face.

ghost that has to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard, because the people who thought the earth was flat were the same ones who would today be denying the fact the humans pumping millions of tons of ancient C02 back into the atmosphere was causing the planet to prematurely warm at an accelerated pace. And it was the scientists who told them the earth wasn't flat and just like today the wingnuts claimed the scientists didn't know what they were talking about, well guess what, the wingnuts who thought the earth was flat WERE WRONG and the SCIENTISTS WERE RIGHT, just like today. Oh and BTW the CEO of EXXON, one of your fellow conservative wingnuts, has admitted that burning fossil fuels is causing global warming, I guess you missed that story.

I remember a story about a man who tried to warn his town of a big flood coming and they all just laughed and called him an alarmist. When the flood finally came Noah and his family were saved while the morons from the town all drowned.

And cleetus, you're the one with only one vote whereas the person you were making fun of has dozens, perhaps you opened your toothless mouth too quickly.

That's because sweet innocent weeping 8lb baby Jesus will fix it all in the afterlife.

As long as we continue to fight gay marriage!

I think human contribution to climate change will stop when we either run out of fossil fuels or develop cleaner technology, whichever comes first. The damage that may occur in the meantime is probably already too late to prevent. Besides, the huge investments and interests in current polluting technology would resist any effective change.

Us hick "denialists" will take you scyentists more seriously when you start showing evidence of causality rather than its effect. You point at snow melt and say "Look what mans doing!" How about showing us emissions data of the human population and comparing them to natural phenomenon. Show us on a pie chart. I have a feeling the scientists know we'd laugh at the ensuing graph because the pie chart would show 1% Human 99% natural. Remember the volcano in Iceland a few years back? The pictures were jaw dropping. Tell me we can come close to matching THAT kind of emission.

thatguydownsouth:

You're like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Less than an hour on the internet will provide you with all of the scientific proof you need.

that guy

If you would take the time to read something other than the right wing nonsense you would see there is cause and effect, that's the whole point of the argument. We know very well what is happening and why it is happening. Since you didn't even take the 30 seconds it took me to find out that your claims are foolish and actually comical, I can rest assured you wouldn't even bother to try to understand what is really going on.

So you hate scientists.....therefore you hate facts, you hate reason, you hate education.

You are obviously a product of our failing education system.

@Monkey@keyboard,

It is a myth that educated people have believed, at least for more than the past 3,000 years that the sun revolved around the earth or that the earth was flat. Both of these are so easily disproved that you would have been hard put to find a sailor in ancient Greece or Rome or even Babylonia that believed such myths. If you want to see the relative level of sophistication in such knowledge, go look at the world's oldest known computer (but obviously not the first), the Antikythera Computer. Here is a wikipedia link:

^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism}

I dont hate education, science, or reason. I just love trolling you keyboard warriors who get so pissed off that we dont turn off all of our cars, electric plants, industrial base facilities which provide jobs etc, yet you fail to provide ANY alternative. You instead sit behind your keyboard and jump on the first thread of the day which deals with global climate change and call everyone that doesnt agree with you "stupid." The irony is I bet you do nothing to curb the poor stewardship of our planet. You continue to surf the web which is powered by the burning of fossil fuels, you continue to use plastics, you continue to drive to work in your gas powered car. etc. What you FAIL to do is assemble and form a cooperative movement to work with your local government to convert your local municipal power authority "green." You FAIL to work with local businesses to assist them in the installation of solar cells. You FAIL to push businesses to use less plastics. You FAIL at your own beliefs and instead batter those with a differing opinion via chat boards. Am I close?

In our society, these GW deniers aren't getting equal voting rights are they???

Maybe we should require some kind of basic intelligence test to prevent them from getting to vote on important issues.

Foxitis is a virulent disease in the US. It damages the prefrontal cortex leading to a diminished ability to reason and solve problems. Turn it off and clear your mind.

Actually you are not close at all.

I am actively working on the development of cheap reliable solar cells as part of my job.

I drive a hybrid

I am doing my best to get intelligent information across in these blogs (that's the hardest job of all)

But that's just me! I'm a despicable scientist trying to get at the horrible truth.

As much as I believe that climate change is happening, I also have to admit that human intervention may not be feasible. For all of you that think going green is the answer, take a look at the volume of hydrocarbons released into the atmosphere from an average volcanic eruption. How do you propose that we stop that from happening? I think the best thing we can do is lay contingency plans.

.

How about showing us emissions data of the human population and comparing them to natural phenomenon. Show us on a pie chart. I have a feeling the scientists know we'd laugh at the ensuing graph because the pie chart would show 1% Human 99% natural. Remember the volcano in Iceland a few years back? The pictures were jaw dropping. Tell me we can come close to matching THAT kind of emission.

How about actually reading:

From a previous posting on this very board:

at http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07/24/12927340-ice-melt-found-across-97-percent-of-greenland-satellites-show?threadId=3526362&commentId=68298847#c68291896

"According to the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS), the world’s volcanoes, both on land and undersea, generate about 200 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) annually, while our automotive and industrial activities cause some 24 billion tons of CO2 emissions every year worldwide. Despite the arguments to the contrary, the facts speak for themselves: Greenhouse gas emissions from volcanoes comprise less than one percent of those generated by today’s human endeavors."

It's interesting how you are finding the "1% human, 99% natural" so very funny, because the actual situation is the exact reverse.

Still laughing?

"take a look at the volume of hydrocarbons released into the atmosphere from an average volcanic eruption."

Humans input over 100 times as much greenhouse gasses as volcanoes.

Byron Raum: Thanks!--for an actual name. Notice, Jock(numericals) and thatguydownsouth didn't bother to read the post ahead of theirs that provided real information on volcanic activity (1%) versus human activity (99%).

We continue to try educating people who vomit profanities in response. Yet we don't give up. Churchill said, "Never, never, never give up."

So, thanks. I for one appreciate your efforts.

dee, jock is saying that humans account for 100 times more co2 than volcanoes

now on the brighter side, the US has actually reduced CO2 emission by 8% since 2004, actually coming close to Kyoto protocol goals without ratifying or new regulations.

the reason?

tax incentives for alternatives and a massive reduction in the price of natural gas, causing a dramatic shift away from dirty coal as an electric source

I've proved my point, by your comments.

ghost, the only thing you have "proven" is that you don't understand anything and believe in fairy tales.

you use words like, depending and possibly and may and potential. besides the insult I may get from your response, what are you SURE of?

I read your comments theezle and here is one thing we can be sure of....you are not too bright.

Wow, that was some response there JB, you tell 'em

Thats the problem with scientists. They give us a reasonable guess then call us non-phd holders "ignorant hicks" for not worshiping their findings. Maybe its because scientists are constantly disproving each other when more data comes available. If we made global decisions off of every scientific whim....

Gravity is a theory too ... I don't see you moronic fleabaggers jumping off buildings. Then again, feel free to test the theory ... from a building of at least 10 stories; you'll be doing the world a favor.

Gravity is not a theory you tard its a law. There are THEORIES about what causes gravity, but not that there IS gravity.

thatguy

We don't call you "ignorant hicks". Your posts shout that to everyone.

It IS the theory of gravity. Perhaps you don't know what 'theory' means in a scientific context.

thatguy

It's called general relativity and it IS a theory. It's still being worked on, but don't worry, whatever they come up with you won't fly off into space if they find out it's wrong.

thatguydownsouth: The correct term is "theory of gravity." Laws are written bills passed by legislatures. The theory of gravity has never been passed as a law.

You Right Wing "Global Warming is a Myth" morons never cease to amaze me. There have been PBS Documentaries showing how quickly the ice in Greenland is melting. But you don't watch PBS, you go to Fux, then comment here. Go back to Right Wing Tin Foil Whackadoodle Land. God you people are ignorant.

Lene-2340310: the sky is falling, you duma$$, RRRUUNNNNN!!!!!!

Show me your evidence Lene, that is, if you know anything about science.

The evidence would be in so many articles, THE VISUALS IN SO MANY PBS DOCUMENTARIES, BUT YOU DONT WATCH PUBLIC BROADCASTING. What an effing idiot. I can't believe you live and breathe.

lene

You site PBS, the bastion of liberal broadcasting, all at the taxpayers expense. In other words only one side of a story and any evidence contrary to PBS's position gets limited or no coverage.

There's plenty of denialist propaganda on Fox and Limbaugh just to name a couple of great outlets. Amazing how all the rebuttals to global warming here consist of name calling, liberal bashing and paranoia accusations, yet scarce few link to any anti-climate change studies despite repeated assurances that they exist. I'd link to a few dozen studies that prove it exists but I doubt if any denier would read them. It's easier if you deny there is a problem so you don't have to make any changes to the way you do things and take responsibility for the consequences of your inaction.

And I'll ask you, how many solar panels are on your roof? What do you drive? Are you a player or a poser? If you're like most liberals, you won't make a move unless you can spend other peoples money to do it.

*cough* hockey stick graph *cough*

*cough* actual science *cough*

Phil, the science is the science. It is not changed by liberals or solar panels or anything else.

It's not that hard to figure out. Some real scientific relativity would have given this article a bit more credibility. No more than a week ago I read of a huge solar storm, the effects of which were to reach the earth in approximately 4 days from then. There have been several recent solar events which have left their distinct footprints on our beloved earth. Anyone else catch the recent and magnificent aurora borealis ? You can search it. It was very impressive.

I dont think theres enough room in the EPA's budget to buy off msnbc....just sayin...

@Valhalla Phil

I drive a compact car that gets 35 miles to the gallon, am a proponent of municipal use of renewable sources of electricity like wind and solar (they're taxed at ~35% whereas coal is taxed at ~4% by the way so no wonder they cost us more), I have an organic garden, I compost my leaves instead of burning them or sending them to the landfill... Do you really want me to go on or was your question rhetorical?

I walk to work. I compost leaves and kitchen waste. I read books more than watch TV (I buy the books at a second hand store and pass them on when done). I wear wool sweaters in winter. I have a small room AC which gets used minimally. This (sweltering) summer I use a window fan at night for sleeping. Can't afford a different vehicle (mine has 260K miles and gets 20 mpg highway). Stuck with electric hot water boiler for house heat.

CVPDude: Really? Really?? A very real problem, and that's all you have to offer? Why did you bother? What does your comment contribute??

Charle7: Wow-- so Greenland will be green again, just like in the days of the Vikings. Cool!

Charle7: Well, Greenland never was "green", insofar as the time frame of homo sapiens (including the Vikings). It was name thusly because they wanted people to think so in order to inhabit it, but they got fooled big time. They also fooled the populous into thinking that Iceland was just full of ice, when the opposite turned out to be the case.

I'm out of here for today, have to check out the amazing 2012 arctic sea ice melt maps, looking like another new overall record on the way. Oh, check out Arctic ice volume data - it is alarming - points to total melt in just a few years time............

I wonder if there is some way we who pay attention to the science can talk to the people being subjected to the Foxes without slamming them down and contributing to the polarity. There is a wonderful book by Michael Faraday, a scientist- (who was not a math geek, btw), in the 1800's who gave a lecture that was part of a London Christmas tradition of lectures to school kids. It was published in a book called "The Chemical History of a Candle". Faraday also described London's "respiration" of CO2 due to coal burning (CO2 science has been around for a long time). It can still be bought. At least it's a start.

Charles (numericals): Actually, as Greenland melts, peat formations below, frozen for millennia, will begin to decay, releasing ever more tons of CO2 into the atmosphere and speeding up the process of global warming. Is a chuckle or two a valid response?

AD: I am sure no one has taken into consideration any problems all these ice breaker ships may cause with ice not getting as thick as it could.

Good observation. It goes with the lack of foresight that we as humans do everything else in connection with the planet, our only home. We just go ahead and exploit (usually for profit) all gifts that Mother Earth has chosen to give us with absolutely no regard for any other species who also share the planet. Our resources are renewable, but there is a limit; and I'm afraid we are fast heading toward the point of no return.

mozzie-600: Every year, humanity consumes 150% of earth's annual resources. That's 50% annually earth cannot recover.

Meanwhile, Big Oil has taken out patents on emerging clean technologies and is storing them away so nobody can develop them--while polluting our land and water tables by fracking with benzene, a highly toxic carcinogen.

They are willing to destroy the planet for another 10 to 20 years of $41 BILLION in profits every quarter--3x annually. When we're reduced to third world status, they'll renounce U.S. citizenship to further evade taxes and move to Asia--where water will in their lifetimes become quite scarce in Asia. They will, however, easily survive their lifetimes, with all that money.

Our great-great grandchildren, however, will most assuredly not.

Meanwhile, while Big Oil pays not a single dime in taxes, we taxpayers fork over to them millions annually in--get this--"tax refunds."

And the 100 hundred of shale oil they insist is underground? There may be only ten years' worth. the fact is, they don't know, and neither do we. Only their increasing pollution is a known, numerically verified, fact.

correction: 100 hundred years* Thinking too fast for my fingers to follow

And I'll ask you, how many solar panels are on your roof? What do you drive? Are you a player or a poser?

billthepill: We won't be able to convince anybody with profanity and insults. I suggest everybody try reading a book titled, Hot, Flat and Crowded, instead of hurling verbal abuse. It's just not productive.

I seriously doubt you are capable of writing a book on any subject.

dearest greg, your ignorance is only surpassed by your inability to think.

cleetus...at least Greg can write a complete sentence.

theezle cleetus: Would it be painful to write something that factually contributes to this discussion? It's a critically important dialogue which you seem to want to dumb down to 'tennis abuse'--back & forth with meaningless volleys.

The ice has been there for millions of years and isn't going to disappear any time soon. But enough of it will melt to affect sea levels.

The ice has been there for millions of years and isn't going to disappear any time soon. But enough of it will melt to affect sea levels.

There are several things to note about the Greenland glaciers. They are melting faster than they are being replaced. Melt water is lubricating and floating increasingly large parts of it, accelerating glacier flow toward the ocean. On the positive side, much of the interior of Greenland is bound by mountains forming natural dams that give credence to the idea that it isn't going to disappear any time soon. What concerns me is the acceleration part. Like a person jumping out of an airplane, you accelerate to terminal velocity where acceleration and air resistance balance, approximately 120 mph for an average sized human. There is no widely publicized information about the terminal velocities of Greenland glaciers now that they are being floated by large quantities of melt water. That unknown is rather scary to me.

And I'll ask you, how many solar panels are on your roof? What do you drive? Are you a player or a poser?

Anything else to say V Phil?

Valhalla Phil: Your request for bona fides is reasonable.

We have 45 solar panels on our south-facing roof, which generated 30,897 kWh so far in July! We lease them, not being able to afford buying them outright.

Researching to find USA-made solar panels-- ours are Chinese :( --I learned China has 95% of the heavy metals/natural resources used in their manufacture, and have priced the U.S. out of the market to buy those materials in order to make our own.

Our do-nothing Congress, of course, refuses to address this issue--and all other genuine issues.

We are a couple with combined 70-year careers in criminal justice/law enforcement. Neither of us drives much anymore, but my hubby drives a 1987 Mazda pick-up, with about 600,000 miles on it--and a third engine.

We volunteer to help with scientific research whenever we travel--and so do our adult children. Our kids have also worked summers for GreenPeace, and one is completing a semester at sea; her marine biology project tested how much oxygen photosynthesizing plankton produce across the Pacific from Hawaii to California--including the vast wasteland of plastic garbage more than twice the size of Texas, known as the North Pacific Gyre. There are 5 such gyres in the sea all around the globe. Photosynthesizing plankton provide the oxygen we need--without them, this planet would not be survivable for humans. In the gyres, their oxygen production is significantly reduced--although I haven't yet seen any data from her individual project, since she's still sailing.

Next summer, our other child will be spending time with Earthwatch (visit Earthwatch.com) on the Amazon, counting numbers of various fauna in the water and in the jungle--at significant personal risk--to observe the effects of climate change there.

We are activists, and at least one child is becoming a scientist for life, to increase human knowledge for a greater chance of survival--because they, our children, will inherit this mess we and others have created.

I take 'Navy' showers, limiting myself to 13 gallons of water daily--which is all the planet has for human beings, 13 gallons per day per person.

We use neither heat in winter nor air conditioning in summer. Instead, we wear layers when it's cold and have four attic 'whole house' fans (visit quietcoolmanufacturing.com) to circulate air in summer.

We removed all concrete from our property & installed pavers so water can percolate rather than flood. Instead of French trench-drainage systems that have to be dug up and renewed every ten years, disrupting landscaping, for drains we discovered an easily installed drainage system (hoses, basically!) that only needs to be four inches below topsoil (visit drainage-direct.com) and can be DIY for about $450 all around a home property.

We removed all grassy areas and non-native flora and planted xeriscape native plants to support wildlife, and our home is a nationally-certified wildlife habitat providing shelter, food sources, and water for local fauna.

We find and take injured native animals to our local wildlife survival center--and donate regularly.

We sign petitions to Congress and call our representatives to raise issues of concern. I am a call rep for the Obama campaign, and we are working to help provide our President with a democratic Congress willing to work with him to help the middle class and everybody's environment.

We recycle and are gradually buying led lighting, one bulb at a time, to replace incandescents & fluorescents. We re-floored our home with easily renewable bamboo and natural slate.

Our dogs are rescues.

We campaign against Monsanto's widespread human experiment with genetically-modified seeds that are intermingling with natural produce and changing our plant food supplies forever without any knowledge of what that will mean for our future.

We buy "Made in the USA" whenever possible and look forward to buying new water-saving high-tech washing machines from American company Staber Industries (visit staber.com) who also make drying closets widely used in Europe that dry clothes, sweaters that can't go in normal, high-energy dryers, boots, and coats with the energy of a 15 watt bulb! We buy microwaves and cooktops from Wolf (visit subzero-wolf.com), whose appliances are made in Wisconsin. They also make refrigerators & water/air filters.

Of course. a lot of people simply cannot afford to do or buy as we do. That's why we belong to 98%.org and are battling against the corporate takeover of our government started in the 1950s and complete with the Supreme Court's ridiculous but corporate-sponsored ruling in Citizens United--shredding the last vestiges of our democracy to establish an oligarchic plutocracy of the 1%.

Against the corporate agenda, we are trying to educate a public increasingly manipulated by corporate-owned TV. The reason so many in this country have low IQs is graphically revealed in a volume published in 1971 titled, Understanding Media, by Marshall McLuhan. It's out of print but I urge everybody posting here to find it--when I read it in 1971, I thought the author was certifiable. Since then, everything--every single thing--he says in the book has come true, by a thousandfold! CORPORATIONS CREATED TV, AND OWN TV, TO CONTROL US AS COUCH POTATOES WITH ONLY PASSIVE BRAIN ACTIVITY. They failed to realize that corporate children, too, would grow up stupid, which is one reason everything's falling apart--they created a system they ultimately couldn't even control themselves.

Meanwhile, the herding instinct brings so many to drink up whatever drivel moneyed corporations want us swigging down. Eisenhower, Teddy Roosevelt, Lincoln, and Thomas Jefferson all warned us that democracy would end when corporations own government--and here we are.

Corporations have deeply damaged our very culture: we used to have moral values dictating government's need to protect the weak and vulnerable. We had a philosophy of noblesse oblige requiring the wealthy to support the less fortunate. The breakdown in culture is so severe, corporations can now do as they please. By keeping us divided, they fulfill Lincoln's adage, "A house divided cannot stand."

So long as we insist on an American way of life now transformed to the meanest possible denominator of "All for me, f--- you, and my gun will back that up," we are clearly assassinating ourselves and the very values we say we stand for, the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness--rights which, btw, we lose all over again every time Congress renews the Patriot Act.

And yes, I'm a lawyer--because it's life or death for me to truly KNOW what's real, and I don't trust spoon-fed information. I've read the 900+ page Affordable Healthcare Act; I know there are no hidden boogeymen there. I've read the article that follows a Harvard study showing the expansion of Medicaid saves lives almost 7% over not expanding it, while reducing costs.

I've researched climate change exhaustively. What else do you want to know about whether people here talk the talk and walk the walk? I'm happy to share what I can.

@Dee,

WOW

I have to give that post 2 Fs. The first for Fascinating and the second for Fantastic.

Thank you. These are the kind of posts that I love to find as they provide new areas and ideas to explore. Even if I decide that I may not agree on an issue at least I'll have good info to make the best choice possible.

oh please stop, your're really tugging at my heart strings.lololol. lets all sing the ol' buy the world a coke song followed by a few verses of we are the world.

And yet the science stands.

The raw numbers stand, the fear mongering does not. Sorry, follow the money.

Phil, the money trail leads to people like the Koch brothers that spend tens of millions of dollars on pure propaganda designed entirely to discredit scientific results. They even have people on staff whose entire job is simply to destroy the reputation of various scientists, by any means.

PeteS(numbers): Salt prevents lowered temperatures in the sea--so when the glaciers melt, the sea's salinity will dramatically decrease, allowing freezing temperatures in oceanic currents--which will cause another ice age. Good for us, you say? Not so much

The next ice age will happen only after global warming has wiped out current civilization, both because of crop destruction (we only have 11% land mass arable for agriculture, and we're losing that to both drought and floods, with 7 BILLION to feed)--and because an invading sea will salinify most potable water sources.

We may all cry, but it won't achieve anything. And all those who subscribe to current American philosophy: "All for me, f--- you, and my gun will back that up," will have great-great grandchildren who will suffer miserably for it.

Hope el Rusboitiot is the first casualty when the sea rises, followed by the entire Right.

If that fat moron falls into the sea, that would cause a sea level rise right there!

And I'll ask you, how many solar panels are on your roofs? What do you drive? Are you players or a posers? My guess is you're all posers.

And I'll ask you again, Phil, why does that matter? Does it change the science?

For godsakes Phil!! I will answer your question. I do not own solar panels (Landlady would not approve on apt.), I drive a honda leaf. I am trying to be a player. Now was that so hard to answer him?! It doesn't change the science, but it does change him from asking the d*** question so many times!

It matters jock59801 because if what you say is true concerning global warming, why are you not taking those steps? Why are you not doing your part? That is the point.

and people will do what they can afford to do, Mike. not everyone has the resources to buy solar panels and new cars.

Working to convince 'non-believers' that climate change is real, with ample scientific information to support it--is a critical part of being a 'player' for climate change. We're not giving up on climate deniers, whose belief systems are in fact fully intact but carelessly relying on self-destructive corporate agendas.

Ironic--in the worst way-- that while gun owners think the 2nd Amendment exists so they can do battle with corrupt government, the corporations that own our government have already made them useful propagandists by manipulating data and spewing untruths they blindly add to their beliefs.

Not a single shot was fired, and they are unwittingly shooting themselves in the foot-- and their future-- all the while.

On the southern edge, yes.

Yes, and if you do your reading and research you'll see that they starved to death in their beds because... wait for it..

..wait for it..

..the climate changed and cooled, and the grass wouldn't grow to feed the sheep, and the crops wouldn't grow.... and...

...they died. They were found dead in their beds, centuries later.

So from your history lesson, this warming must be a good thing.

Duval(numbers): What do the numbers added to all these numerical web names mean?

And, just as an aside, can you offer anything of use to this discussion?