Beecuz den dey wuld hab too agree wit dem dar smartacleky libburalz. (sarc)

The problem is all the lies and fear mongering have caused the majority of people to not believe anything enviro-Nazi's say. The raw data is correct, the fear mongering is not. It is people like you who create deniers, with your absurd whining. If you just stuck to the facts and laid off the fear mongering you would have some credibility.

When early alarmists are beginning to back off their earlier stances, even when the IPCC admits they grossly overestimated CO2 relevance, you pretend scientists persist with the lies.

Phil, nobody is backing off the fact that the CO2 is going to have a significant effect. We can play games with words like "alarmism" or "catastrophic" but the fact remains that we have a problem. I would rather we all worked together trying to overcome it, rather than fighting over whether it exists.

Please provide a reference to the supposed IPCC admission that climate sensitivity to CO2 was overestimated. As far as I'm aware, the sensitivity to doubling CO2 is still estimated at about 3 deg C (once equilibrium is reached), possibly more if certain feedbacks happen. This is also supported by paleoclimate research on past climate changes dating back millions of years.

It's because of brainwashing for fun and (mostly)profit. Fox and right wing radio learned from the great manipulators. Goebbels realized that if the population could be focused to hate a specific group, they couold be focused and would swallow almost everything from their trusted source. Liberals stand in for the Jews here and everything the liberals agree with will be hated by the Foxwashed.

I am 57 years old.....this is the fourth "the end is near and the sky is falling" event in my lifetime brought to us all by the neurotic genius's in the scientific community. Many of you posters are not old enough to remember any of the prior four alarming freakout events and those of you who are old enough may have elected just to conveniently "forget" the prior four. Oh I know I know....the current set of scientists are the smartest scientists ever and what ever the prior four scaredy cat scientists claimed to be imminent was based on bad science (which explains those four things never coming true) and these scientists are much smarter and much more correct than the prior set of scientists who foisted the four freak outs on anyone old enough to read or hear for nigh on the last 60 years.

You'll have to excuse me if I don't care anymore what the current scientists turned fortune tellers say...promulgate.....print...write...sooth say....or divine these days regarding "Global Warming". During my lifetime from a young child through today as I type this....futuristic scientists have been deliberately responsible for freaking out about:

1. The Coming Ice Age - a giant pall of ice will kill us all very soon

2. The Population Bomb - human beings will cover the entire planet like ants

3. The Nuclear Winter - A mutually assured nuclear holocaust destruction of mankind scenario

4. The Asteroid Theory - A huge celestial object will collide with Earth soon and kill all of us

In addition to the above 4 quasi scientific quasi theories.....during those moments...the entire planet was also being subjected to so-called ravaging indiscriminate viruses and plagues, the cold war, the incessant banter about the right to kill a human fetus before it gets a chance to take a breath and virtually a myriad of other threats and warnings....most all threats and warnings of which referred directly to the mammalian gene pool but continued downward and were also foisted upon dolphins and whales.....and eventually changing downward further from Class Mammalia altogether but staying in Phylum Chordata down to tuna fish and snail darters.

You'll forgive me.....if I make the following statement on my own selfish behalf. In a Clark Gable voice I say "Frankly My Dear Chicken Littles Who Really Hate Mankind In General Generals" I Don't Give A Damn"......you scientists and doom slingers have made millions and millions of people around the globe nervous and pensive far too many times in my short 60 year venture and trip on this planet. You are the ones who are mentally ill.....not us. So squawk the sqauwk...you would simply be disappointed to the point of apoplexy at the number of people who think just like I do....so squawk away....forecast your scientific version of doomsday once again....to those who think the way I do....you all are nothing but the leftover crickets from the prior predicted infestations, conflagrations or pestilences that seem to come from the scientific communities with a flourish. Jeez...you scientists will do or say anything just to keep those federal research grants, fellowships or study money coming won't you? How about this name for what you all are up to now? Intellectual Pimps....of the scientific sort...the worst kind of pimps there are. I knew something was up the second that that loser Al Gore started flying all over the world leaving his filthy carbon footprint anyplace that would accept his plane landing. Once a politician "turned scientist" gets into the fray...the prostitution really gets rockin' and rolling.

Gosh you seemed to be completely scared.....like you have just seen a Poltergeist. Do you believe in ghosts? .... and since when do liberals give two good hoots about what is "left" for children and grandchildren? I am quite sure the impending fiscal calamity brought about in great part by liberal mindset and "Uncle Sam will take care of you" policies and programs...I am quite sure that will affect the children and grandchildren in a much more pronounced way than global warming ever will....mainly because the future fiscal picture is genuinely grim and global warming actually sounds good to those of us who live a couple of hundred feet above sea level and north of the Mason-Dixon line. I always thought it was a bit risky to live near any beach.....something inside me naturally came to that conclusion...I did not need a frantic ecologist or computer program laden climatologist to come to that conclusion.

Has God ever been in front of your face? Oh...that's right Scientists generally don't believe in God...and those Scientists that do believe in God have to keep it quiet for fear of reprisal or ridicule from their "Superiors".

Liberals like nuclear power. Jesus H. Christ

see your doctor

So if there were 33 Fukishima Reactor Incidents all at once then the world would be just under a hundred degrees Fahrenheit warmer? (I used the Fahrenheit scale just to irritate scientists)... And if there were 66 and a half such Fukishima incidents all at once then the entire earth would be boiling? Well...I think that pretty much proves your point....lets get rid of all nuclear reactors for sure because they are going to MESS UP all the global warming scientists global climate models........and we can't have anything disrupt or impact their current agenda. Heaven forbid...oh wait... correction......I'll tone down all the God stuff and just exclaim "My Stars."

Greenland was not significantly greener in the Viking era. A few more trees around the southern edge, but that is about it. And even IF the temperature was higher than, we should surpass it soon.

Gotta crystal ball there Jock? Can I borrow it? Or were you there when the Nordes were, and are you going to be there when in a hundred yrs she finally melts? Just wondering bud.

Yeah, oh God I'm freezin my a$$ off, I wish it would warm up. Oh God I'm burnin up, I wish it would cool off. I know where yer comin from Blamo.

"Gotta crystal ball there Jock?"

No, just science. We will obviously continue dumping greenhuose gasses, which will obviously increase the greenhouse effect.

LMFAO!! Owl Gore, now that's some funny $hit bro!

They said one one hudredth of an inch. Hell man, you can't even see that with the naked eye bro!

It doesnt work the way you think it does. The ocean moves with the tide. One, one hundredth of an inch, over the entire worlds oceans, equals billions and billions of tons of extra water. Moving with the tides, it could easily raise the tide level in some areas 10 feet or more. Thats enough to flood downtown New York.

Just like in that movie huh? Where the tsunami wave crashes into the top level of skyscrapers....you know that movie...the one that Hollywood produced right when Al Gore was flying around the planet leaving his filthy carbon footprint every where....yeah...that movie. Not since The Wizard of Oz have I been so terrified. Those monkeys...those snarling winged wicked monkeys. No...not Al Sharpton or Van Jones....I mean those monkeys in that old Judy Garland movie.

The whole thing makes me shudder in a panic...and I just want to obey the scientists.....obey the scientists.....obey the scientists.........****yawn****

Well, I doubt you will actually be able to grow lemons in Greenland. :-)

I did invest Dame. Then they outsourced and moved overseas and took all my money with them and won't give it back. They said I could have it back if I'd come get it, but the sob's knows I can't afford a boat ticket over there. What to do? $hit in one hand and wish in the other and see which one fills up first? I guess I just got screwed, huh?

Why whine about fear tactics when you have your own?

I'm sorry, you are not allowed two unrelated conspiracy theories in the same comment.

lol Jock!

They've got you confined to the only propog....oops! News source they want you listening to bro.

I'm GOP. There are many Dems that think like what you are saying as well. This is not a political issue bonehead. I saw a solid Dem dumping oil on the ground and gave him a piece of my mind. He answered that Jesus is coming back pretty soon, and besides, God made the Earth for us anyway.

I know there are millions like him because there are a lot of Dems around me who are extreme bible thumpers who hunt, have a lot of guns, believe the bible is 100% accurate, and swear theat George Bush did 9/11.

In other words, get off of your high horse dude. This is more complicated than you think. You can't just blame Repubs, and walk away.

And to think all along that THEY want us ALL divided. Huh!

Wood

It is the right wing media that pushes the denials.

and it is the ilk of MSNBC that does the exact opposite....for every action there will be an equal and opposite reaction....so what do you expect? A nation of citizens waking up every day in fear and consternation about one thing or another is a nation of nothing but stupid ewes and rams. That goes for left wing (mainstream) and right wing media. Would you rather have global warming or global cooling? When I was a kid the scientific mantra was the coming Ice Age...and now less than 35 years later here we are....you figure that one out...and decide whether you want to be subjected to scientific based agendas...or whether you just want to live life without letting a bunch of pompous self aggrandizing politicians and their pimp scientists to run your existence.

As a side not I find it interesting that Penn State....the college where a known pedophile was able to diddle little boys in their own athletic complex....is the same Penn State that is knee deep in this bogus "hockey stick" climate model. There's no direct connection I am sure.....but I find it interesting that no scientist on campus there was able to discern Jerry Sandusky's own private little misty shower moments replete with genetic material flinging around the locker room....usually scientists are all over any loose DNA.

And I'll ask you, how many solar panels are on your roof? What do you drive? Are you a player or a poser?

You're a putz, that's for certain. Might want to finish up Hi Skule there Phil.

I study this pretty closely too, and what I see is pretty overwhelming opinion among scientists that AGW is happening. Yes, there are some legitimate scientific concerns and we do not understand all the feedbacks, and probably never will. But we still know that CO2 is a greenhouse gas and adding it will increase the greenhouse effect. The rest is just detail.

In fairness, I'm a biologist and can barely understand scientific literature from other disciplines, so I sincerely doubt any worthwhile fights can be had on newsvine.

Still, your post is interesting. I wish you could come with a sticker declaring your position on evolution so I know how much credibility to give you.

I'm a biologist too, UC, but I know enough about how the science community works to know when they are fairly confident about something that can't be easily dismissed. I certainly don't understand all of the details of the physics of climate change, but the basics make a lot of sense to me

UC - If you must know, a firm believer in evolution. Have to admit I find it a bit hard to believe at times just because there's so much diversity and amazing complication but I don't have any choice since I'm basically an agnostic.

Jock - the earth, with it's circulating atmosphere and oceans, isn't a greenhouse. E.g., there are studies that show most warming in greenhouses is due to the lack of convection. Not saying that GHG's don't have an effect but it's unclear just how important a factor it really is within the context of a complicated system.

Here's something you all might want to read:

Rational - You are correct that the effect is really nothing like the way a greenhouse works, and scientists don't like to use the term. But it is what the public is used to so we are kind of stuck with it.

And I suppose the inside of your car gets hot in the summer sun because of "lack of convection" and not the greenhouse effect of the glass? Limited convection may help it stay hot or reach a higher equilibrium temperature (for example when the fan's not turned on to remove the hot air), but it isn't what makes it hot in the first place.

Eric

The albedo of the surfaces is what makes it hot. Reflection vs absorption. If the windows were open convection currents would move heat out of the car.

Just look at the scientists you have brought out of their respective laboratories...all of them so quick to announce their disciplines and their alma maters...and one...Jock...even changes the tense of his posts.....for example....he uses the pronoun "I" and then in the next sentence uses the pronoun "We". ...as if that alone gives credence and validity to the entire scientific global warming group think. Those are the same like minded scientist types that 35 and 40 years ago were predicting with dire certainty that the globe was going to be covered in ice very soon....and that the human population growth rate was so off the hook that soon there would not be one single square foot of terrestrial space for mankind to exist on. They are all full of sh*t.....but don't tell them that...because they will go all "scientific" on you and start quoting studies and tests and models which are in reality nothing more than their own private versions of video games.....and then the next thing you know you will be called stupid....and then they check the mail and the federal check arrived ...and they just keep on keepin' on.

The albedo of the surfaces is what makes it hot.

Albedo is important (black surfaces get hotter than white), but no more important than the greenhouse effect. Convection currents can remove heat from a car, but didn't cause the heat buildup. For the Earth's surface, convection to upper levels of the atmosphere is a fairly constant process and removes less than 10% of the Sun's heat, much less than thermal radiation.

Before you place all your bets on the Keeling Curve I recommend you check this out:

The problem is the kind of "drastic changes" folks with your apparent ideological bent are asking for requires basically de-industializing the developed nations and relegates developing and undeveloped nations to the dust bin of human progress. Are people really so bad?

That's the thing enviro-Nazi's don't understand. We are already on the right track, our footprint is already shrinking. It is China, India, Venezuela, Brazil, etc. that holds the cards. The US is irrelevant to the CC argument, more solar is being installed every day, more wind turbines are being installed every day, nat gas is replacing coal, we'll have over a half dozen electric cars to choose from next year.

Yet all that means nothing, China alone will dwarf our efforts. They are importing coal like there is no tomorrow and are now the largest auto market in the world.

I also have to ask how many of these green worshipers have solar panels on their roofs, and I will ask that question repeatedly. My guess is the vast majority don't even drive a hybrid, let alone a Leaf or would know what a solar panel was if it bit them.

Here's the missing link from the above post:

Actually we've found the "missing link" and it's Phil. He didn't quit finish the evolutionary process to make it beyond basic 3rd grade level linguistic skills.

As for what you're saying Mr. Rational, you have to put the melting in context of where we are now and what we already know about CO2, Nitrous Oxide and Methane. Climate is a chaotic and non linear system. We don't actually know what happens when you take millions of years worth of stored CO2 and pump it into the atmosphere in the space of a century. But, we're about to find out. My guess is people like Phil won't believe anything until their ass is 10 feet under water or on fire. Talk to the people in Colorado Springs who came home to a pile of ashes after they were forced to evacuate.

AGHG's ar 4% of overall annual co2 emissions from all sources which is a trace gas in the 79/21 mix.

I think it's crazy how "extreme" events have come about. First, 100 years ago hardly anyone would have even known about or been affected by those fires. Second, because of our forest maintenance practices and the fact that many homes have been built in fire-prone areas, there's way more fuel available than under natural circumstances and much more human/property impact.

@RATIONAL above....yes they do think mankind is inherently just a burden on the entire planet....and that snail darters and snowy owls must have priority dominion.....the pesky snowy owl....the one found nesting in a K-Mart sign even though scientists claimed that loggers were killing those owls off at a rate that by the year 2000 they would be extinct......of course they left out the part where apparently snowy owls shop at K-Marts......

There are \ were many many noble scientists to be sure....and some of them have made the world a much safer and better place to live in and on....but never trust a scientist who thinks that mankind is nothing but a scourge of this world......because they hate mankind far more than you may even realize. They are self loathers of the very worst kind. Put them in cahoots with a body politic and nothing but trial and tribulation is sure to be set loose.

Okay...then please explain what the world wide detonation of perhaps thousands of nuclear weapons should have done but HAS not done in terms of things that release energy at a faster rate at which the fuel source was formed?? factor in every on-line nuclear reactor anywhere worldwide......you think the conversion of combusted fossil fuels into energy and by products is a dangerous rate of such physical chemical conversions? Do you have any idea of what goes on in terms of a fission reaction? Such reactions make the combustion of fossil fuels look like the Hare against the Tortoise.....times near infinity....and so here we are.....and where do we go from here? I am NOT going to live in a cave or ride a burro to work...no matter what...

You really don't think there were some stupid American Aborigines? Really?

I said live like them.

Taking things out of context makes me lose I.Q. points.

If you want to be a smart ass, at least make some extrapolations. Then come back at me.

Spoken like a true fascist.

Zeke heil!

Does saying that make you feel smart ?

Does it solve anything ?

This is not a political issue.

Not with us around. I have a feeling we will kill anything to survive another week.

That's no @!$%#! I've had the heat on this month!

Nicely done!

Thank you Rational thats very kind. I'll be here all week and be sure to tip your waitresses.

You are correct that this observation in Greenland could not prove anything either way by itself. No single event could. But the rest of your argument is I think missing the point. yes, we all know that CO2 has been higher in the past, and the temperatures along with it. And yes, life survived and will again this time. But that doesn't mean it is pleasant to live through. The concern here is the RATE of change, not the absolute amounts. If the climate changes faster than ecosystems and human populations can adapt, there will be much disruption and people will suffer. As for the plants, CO2 will increase their productivity only where they are carbon limited, which is probably only a small part of the world. Most plants are either water or temperature limited, and the increased temperatures have already resulted in decreased crop yields in the tropics.

Actually, temperatures have now risen over 1 deg F in only about 35 years. Atmospheric CO2 was higher in the distant past, but the Sun was not as bright. The last time atmospheric CO2 was 400 ppm, about 3 million years ago, it's estimated that sea levels rose by 30 feet.

Jock, check out the "heat wave" during the middle ages. No cars, planes or trains to speak of. See how much the temperature rose and how long it stayed hot.

350 MYA the Co2 was just as low as it is now and maybe a little lower. Although the temperature was a whole lot lower the Co2 was the same.

The real argument with Co2 is a "chicken or the egg" type of argument. Clearly the AGW scientists believe that the rise in Co2 leads the temperature rise and I believe that the rise in temperature leads the Co2 rise.

Have you ever charged a room full of plants with Co2? I have, and those little buggers jump step and fetch. Every plant will consume Co2 at whatever rate it is able and they won't deny Co2 or stop producing oxygen. Temperature and water are major factors for plants but I don't believe that Co2 is causing the temperature problem.

Finally, I say that the AGW scientists are looking at the small picture most of the time and only look at the big picture when it behooves them and their collective theories. I still say that Gore and the rest of this cult have bet the ranch on less than one degree change of temperature in one hundred years with data that was only accurately collected in the last 40 years. Thats like accurately projecting which route a butterfly will take to Mexico by watching fly over your front sidewalk.

Respectfully submitted.

Data from solar observatories explains much more concerning temperature data on the earth than the AGW scientists have ever presented using Co2 as a culprit for global warming. Solar data and Orbital Forcing should be looked at by more people that want to seek the truth about our world and I think it would be a good place to start investigating.

As always, respectfully submitted.

The oceans rising millions of years ago and man not to blame? This is my point, we have collected data before man and we have seen all these events at one time or another. I believe that many things will happen to the earth and these events will cause change. I don't think we can stop all these changes that are going to take place nor do we need to. We are on the very bottom end of the Co2 and temperature historic scale and I believe the human race is doing everything it can do to fight the elusive "Co2 Sasquatch". What do we do, go back to horses, file cabinets and using pencils?

Respectfully submitted.

Scientists do consider solar data and orbital forcing, but those variables can't explain the rapid warming of the past few decades. We're no longer at the "very bottom end" of atmospheric CO2, but instead are near levels not seen in millions of years. Past warm periods with oceans rising have been correlated with natural carbon emissions; I suggest looking up the PETM event 55 million years ago as perhaps the best-known and most important example.

That doesn't mean that murder should be OK.

So you would generally be against any kind of abortion then???...or at a minimum the so-called partial birth abortion technique used on fetuses that are 8 months into gestation? One thing about discussing human abortion with scientists is that they really do know that a fetus is a living thing.....most of them have seen one move inside the uterus either literally or on a video of one kind or another..... Or in the alternative they can scientifically arrive at the concept that the mass of tissue called a fetus at least is a mass of live human cells.

The universe? LOL. The universe won't even notice.

It will take over a century to rise that much and we'll be off carbon long before that happens. Solar panels are now viable without federal subsidies, and wind turbines will be as well in less than a decade. Again, the US is already shrinking our carbon footprint. China will dwarf our efforts regardless.

Unless you have a roof full of solar panels and drive a leaf you have zero credibility.

Oh now the entire universe is affected by global warming? Tell me....which esteemed scientist is going around spreading that nonsense? "Doctor Zhivago?" "Doctor Strangleove?" "Doctor I'm getting federal grants so I'll say anything they want me to say?"

And I'll ask you, how many solar panels are on your roof? What do you drive? Are you a player or a poser?

Greenland has not been green for millions of years, except at the southern tip. The vikings called it Greenland as a marketing ploy. Yes, you could grow more crops and a few trees at the southern tip back then, but the difference would be hardly noticeable.

The other factors you mention have been considered and ruled out as the primary agent in the current climate change. That's what science is for.