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Subscribe to RSSFor days the Syrian troops' weapons have given them the upper hand during key battles in Aleppo, but the rebels – now armed with powerful shoulder fired anti-aircraft missiles -- are preparing for a different kind of fight. NBC's Richard Engel reports.
Syrian fighter jets fired on rebel positions in the commercial capital of Aleppo on Wednesday, U.N. observers told The Associated Press, a development that could signal a significant escalation in the battle for control of the key city.
In a briefing on Wednesday, U.N. mission spokeswoman Sausan Ghosheh also said the United Nations had confirmation that the rebels now have heavy weapons of their own, including tanks.
On Tuesday, NBC News' Richard Engel reported from northern Syria that the rebels were now equipped with powerful shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles, which could narrow the gap between opposition fighters and the well-equipped forces of President Bashar Assad.
Amateur video reportedly from Aleppo, Syria, shows destruction in the city, a nighttime rebel rally along with the schoolyard execution of some pro-Assad military forces. NBCNews.com's Dara Brown reports. Editor's Note: This video contains graphic material that some viewers may find disturbing.
The U.N.'s Ghosheh expressed concern over the situation in the northern city of Aleppo, where rebels have been battling government forces for the past 12 days.
Residents face shortages as Syrian army hits Aleppo
She described "heavy use of heavy weapons, including tanks, helicopters, heavy machine guns, as well as artillery."
Earlier, Reuters reported that government combat aircraft and artillery pounded Aleppo late into the night as the army battled for control for the fifth day, where rebel fighters said troops loyal to Assad had been forced to retreat.
The battle for Aleppo, Syria's largest city, has become a crucial test for both sides in the 16-month-old rebellion against the Assad family's four-decade-long grip on power. Neither Assad's forces nor the rag-tag rebels can afford to lose if they hope to prevail in the wider struggle for Syria.
EPA
Rebels arrest a man who they claim to be a traitor at an old military base in Sicco village, near Aleppo, Syria, on Tuesday.
Forces opposing the government estimate that about 20,000 people have died during the rebellion.
Assad cites 'internal agents'
Assad also said Wednesday that foreign enemies were using "internal agents" to undermine the country's stability.
Thousands have fled Aleppo, driven out by heavy fighting. NBC's Ayman Mohyeldin reports from one refugee camp along the Turkey Syria border, where some frightened civilians have ended up.
Speaking to the army on the 67th anniversary of its founding, Assad said the armed forces are the "homeland's shield" against plots by criminal and terrorist gangs, using terminology the government often uses to describe the fight against the rebels.
He said the people see the army as a "source of pride" and a "defender of just causes."
The speech, which was carried by the state news agency but not broadcast on state television, was a rare comment from the president who has kept a low profile during recent fighting in the country's two main cities.
On the streets of Aleppo fierce clashes between rebel forces and Syrian troops continue. These pictures, filmed by opposition activists in the suburb of Salah al-Din, show the latest fighting in one of the key battlegrounds. ITV's Neil Connery reports.
Fighting in Christian neighborhoods
Also Wednesday, fighting reportedly broke out between Syria's army and rebel fighters in near two Christian neighborhoods in the heart of the country's capital Damascus for the first time since the uprising broke out.
The pro-rebel Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said that the firefight erupted early Wednesday on the outskirts of Damascus' Bab Tuma and Bab Sharqi, two traditional Christian districts of the city.
UN: 200,000 Syrians flee fierce fighting in Aleppo
"This is fighting in areas where it has not happened before. These are areas where the rebels have so far not had access," Observatory chief Rami Abdel Rahman told AFP news service.
While calm returned to the area later, the fighting underlined fears felt by many in the Christian community that they would be among the chief losers if the rebels were to overthrow Assads government.
NBC News staff, The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.
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- Video: Syrian rebels obtain anti-aircraft missiles
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With all the heavy weapons now deployed and being used to prosecute this war, we must now accept than far more than just Syrians are engaged in these battles. My major concern is that Assad and company will grow so desparate that they will use chemical weapons if they feel they are losing Aleppo. Oh well, Russia and China will shrug that off in the U.N. Security Council.
So we should arm the rebels with stinger missles to take out the planes? We did that in Afganistan and the "rebels" turned into the Taliban. Do you take the bloody dictator or the rising rebels who have historically gone fanatic in the middle east? No win coin flip but I would like to see Assad's head on a stick.......
So is Obama going to attack this country as well?
I often wonder what America would be like if the French hadn't given us some help during the revolution. Never cared very much for driving on the wrong side of the road.
I often wonder what France would be like if we did not take their country back in WWI & II. The Germans would have made them work more than 30 hous a week and drink beer........
Rebels=Al Queda and other criminals. USA supports our mortal enemies? WHY?
See the jokes going in Syria with Sunni Saudi rebels, al-Qaida, MB on one side and the Assad’s forces on the other sides!
Just check all languages of the UN, human rights groups, media and others!
If atrocities and barbarism on girls, children and women are the criteria, then the most despotic, autocratic and bigoted Sunni Saudi ruler with his 5000 princes and princesses, Kuwaiti, UAE and other Arab League Sunni rulers and their rich sheiks are the biggest culprits in the history.
Through the Muslim immoral trafficking gangs, these barbarians have assembled all varieties of poor and helpless girls and women from all over the world in their harems and brothels.
In killing of opponents again, these people have established world records.
If the US, Britain and others support such Sunni barbarians and beasts who treat girls and women as cheap sex slaves, then one can only conclude that Saudis, oil companies and their lobbyists determine what to see, how to lecture and where and when to act.
Rest like “human rights”, “killing of children and women”, “militants”, “terrorists”, “WMDs”, “chemical weapons” and so on are a pure hoax.
Similar hoaxes were played each time before Iraqi wars on directions of Saudi, oil companies and their lobbyists.
In many nations, Pakis and those from Bangladesh are into counterfeit currency circulations. These monies are again diverted to Islamic radical and terrorist organizations like al-Qaida, Taliban and other label ones.
Now none of them are looking into Iraq, where at least a million have been killed and devastated.
Twice are too much to tolerate.
The west with the Saudis decided to ratchet up the fighting by adding more arms--- OF COURSE the government has to then ratchet it up even more. There are not innocent people, they are terrorizing the Christians, minorities, and every neighborhood they take over. The government MUST use everything in its arsenal, as the rebels are, to WIN.
The shoulder-launched missiles appear to be SA-16 or SA-18 Russian missiles painted light green. They are more likely the older SA-16's, but the two look identical, so it is difficult to tell. This would indicate that they came from the Syrian military, probably from defectors. Considering that the rebels have no aircraft, the missiles were likely lightly guarded.
The tanks are Russian T-72s or T-90's and also probably came from the Syrian army. T-72's and T-90's are essentially the same tank, so they, too are difficult to tell apart, especially when they are burning. The source was probably also either decectors or tanks abandoned in battle.
This is a purely religious-based internal civil war. 80% of the people are Sunnis, but the ruling Baathist Party is compiosed of a Shiite Alawite cult and Christians who threw in with the Assads decades ago. The Alawites and Christians are fighting for their lives because they know that when Assad falls, they will likely die.
Assad will fall for a very simply reason: he made this into a war of attrition and 80 always beats 20 in a war of attrition. Assad simply does have enough troops to control both the two major cities and the surrounding countryside. Most Christian leaders have sent their families to Lebanon and Assad is constructing a fortified zone in the hills that are the ancestral villages of the Alawites.
"The U.N.'s Ghosheh expressed concern over the situation..."
I find it interesting that the UN and media outlets find the Syria situation "concerning" while they are/were very quick to condemn the US for ANY laser guided ordinance that happens to hit anything remotely definable as a "non-military" target. Person walking by the arms depot when we use a missile against it, the US is killing innocent civilians. In Syria they are using tanks and helicoptors to shread communities where the rebels are coming from, mass murdering civilians on occasion to make statements to the rebels.
So where's the intellectual honesty UN and international media? Clearly they all are just trying to demean the big dog while the little dogs bite all of the kids in the neighborhood.
That's because Russia and China want any opposition in Syria crushed so the country will be more inclined to obey Assad under the fear of death while Russia and China continue to make small land grabs in the Middle East for Oil.
You might not think that small deposits of oil in countries like Syria are important but when you add up all of the countries with small deposits of oil in the hands of Putin and China you have the ingrediants for a worldwide market increase on the price of oil which then translates into higher prices at the gas pump which then in turn causes economic problems in the U.S. and other countries which then leads to American companies having to borrow more money from China which then makes America that much indebted to China allowing their Communist ways to slowly flow into America and American businesses.
Most of Muslims in ME are fast marching backwards!
It will be better to keep miles away from their century old Shiites vs Sunni battles.
Anybody going near them even to help will get badly hurt!
Examine Iraqi wars.
Russia and China can get as much close to them as they want.
It appears Russia did not learn lessons in Afghanistan.
What is the problem if both get badly burnt by going near them?
Another nail in the coffin of the beast Assad.who like his father is a butcher of the worst proportions . Or just a tighter noose when he is finally hanged by his own people!!
Assad : is destroying his own country / people... was this one of his father's dream?
Assad father also killed thousands of protesters, now it s his son's turn.. maybe.. your father got away with crimes against humanity but you will not..mark my word on it... the world is changing so the people.
This may sound harsh, but until people realize how much suffering there really is in war then this will continue, endlessly. Giving assistance to either side in any form is robbing these people of the opportunity to learn from it. Go ahead, fight, kill, maim, destroy. We'll take care of you. Where is the incentive to avoid this. Let them do this to each other. Maybe there is a chance that the people that survive it will take the lessons learned and strive to avoid it in the future. We need to stay out of this. Completely.
Jack and Seventoseven,
France chopped their king's head in 1789, about 13 years after the American independence. So a french royal army helped America prior to 1776: to screw with England, not necessarily to help American "democracy".
America liberated France from the Nazis in 1945: To screw with the nazis who otherwise would have continued their A-bomb plans and would have for sure nuked London, then New York and Washington if needed. Much like we did to Japan.
In both cases things were acted upon to prevent something more than to help someone. We make it jive and embellish things after the facts. Makes us feel warm and fuzzy inside, but the motivation really wasn't of the highest moral ground.
Syrians killing Syrians, muslims killing muslims and for a change these folks are not killing Christians so all in all not a bad little revolution
...
Aleppo.
Isn't that the birthplace of the president's friend Tony Rezko?
...
tick tock assad tick tock
NO DOUBT the US will experience blow back for this - I wonder if Americans will once again act like innocent lambs that say people hate them for their freedoms- oh my god how pathetic --- you meddle with other people without end and then when you get slapped you claim its because they hate you for who you are NOT what you do -- it would require some self introspection, we wouldn't want that!
Experience a blow back for what, exactly? In this scenario we have done practically nothing. Is that why we should expect people to be angry at us?
Yes, because the Libyans were so happy with what we did they sent us a nice "present" in a cargo jet. Too bad it got caught in Cairo or else we would be "celebrating"....
They also held great celebrations when the UN came to visit as well, I believe there's still a nice rpg sized hole in their Benghazi office.
SevenSevens- It's simple: Damned if you do, damned if you dont. HOWEVER, try not to act like the enemy does...by generalizing and demonizing the entire side although it is true there are some radical elements not all of them are. The choice whether or not to support is still difficult though.
George, America gets blamed anyhow.
we intervene like in Iraq Desert Storm, we get blamed, it wasn't far enough
we intervene like in Iraq Iraqi freedom, we get blamed, it was too far too long
we intervene medium strength like in Afghanistan, we get blamed it doesn't work, Taliban re-emerges
We can't win for losing
Birt Day 1-14 expresses the same as I feel. we can't help people. they have to learn on their own, from their mistakes and suffering.
The ethical issue to me is: do we provide military weaponry so the "rebels" don't get massacred, at the the risk of heightening the conflict and increase the overall casualties?
This violent conflict is not going to end anytime soon whether we get involved or not. I'm looking at 5yrs. The best we can do is keep it geographicaly contained to just Syria.
Just examine the state of affairs after Saddam's removal. Sunni Saudis and their proxies are on rampage all over the world.
You can't just put "ring around" Syria!
“Syria that the rebels were now equipped with powerful shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles”
Followers of Islamic cult, especially Sunni Saudi inspired Islamic radicals and militants (al-Qaida, Salaffi, Wahhabi, MB and other label ones), are fast marching backwards to their seventh century desert tribal days.
They are indulging in rapings, lootings, killings and genocides of non-Muslims (Darfur, S. Sudan, Nigeria and spreading like wild fire in many regions and Muslims (Mali, Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan and other places.
Sunni Saudi backed Salaffi and MB new chapters are opening up in Egypt. Just watch the fate of Christians, women and Israel as the time goes by.
Even in Syria, if Assad is overthrown by Sunni Islamic religious Nazis like al-Qaida, MB, the conditions of Christians will be unbearable just like Iraq.
Are we not committing hara-kiri by supporting our enemies and killers?
@Jonathan,
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You toss about terms that you don't understand. The Saudis are indeed Wahabis, but in modern times, Salafi and Wahabi mean the same thing as Christian "fuindamentalists." Other than the fact that likke American Christian fundamentslists they believe in a strict, literal, fully revealed Koran, they are Sunnis just like virtually all Arab Muslims. The Muslin Brotherhood is mostly a boogeyman created by American right wingers. The Muslim Brotherhood is mostly a charitable organizations that deals in education, medical treatment, and legal services as a part of the Muslim obligation toward the poor. Yep, it has a political arm and even sometimes some pretty violently anti-government people involved, but as they say, all politics are local. And all MB activities are local.
The Christians in Syria threw in their lot with Assad decades ago. They made a choice. It was a bad choice. Now it is likely that a lot of them will be slaughtered right along with the Alawites as Assad falls.
It is highly unlikely that a MB candidate would have won in Egypt if there had been any choice for the voters. The MB candidate won simply because there was no other candidtate to vote for except an Mubarrak insider and military supporter. It was a free and fair election, you just don't like the result. But if you look at other coutries where MB candidates ran, Libya and Tunisia, the MB candidates lost overwhelmingly. In the next election in Egypt, the MB will lose unless they can seriously lighten up their act. They know this and will likely try to makle up with the military to stay in power. I seriously doubt that the military will have any of it.
All the Saudis want is political stability at any price. They mostly fear the Iranians and while assistance to Sunnis to overthrow Iran's only current ally is possible, it will most likely be in the form of money and that's it. The Saudis tiny Wahabi minority stay in power by a thread using money and they know it. They don't want to do anything that will draw too much attention to themselves.
I know that the Muslim Brotherhood isn't one hundredth as fearsome as people seem to think, but I have heard that it was classified as a terrorist organization at one point. Is that true?
Yes, it used to be classified as a Terrorist organization, but it is no longer considered one by the United States. I believe some other nations, including some European states, still consider the organization associated with terror. (That could be wrong, I haven't checked in a while)
Thought so. Thank you, Jeff. And you as well, Chris. I learned a great deal today.
No country in the world in a civil war would not use their Aircraft to fight against whatever you call them rebles\freedom fighters\terrorist. I am sure now seeing that Nato is giving away stinger's Russia and China could send in arms or troops. I am sure that if a state in the US wanted to SECEDE from the union the US would not use it's jets or tanks to stop that from happing. Oh ya that did happen and here is how many died.
Union Casualties : 110,000 killed in action
360,000 total dead
275,200 wounded
Confederate Casualties :93,000 killed in action
260,000 total dead
137,000 wounded
Hmm looks like we had our problems too. Let them sort this out!!!
Uh... we didn't use jets or tanks in the Civil War, although that was mostly because they didn't exist. If they did, the entire war might have been very different.
And one civil war isn't necessarily the same as the next. Whether or not you think the Union's Civil War with the Confederacy was just, it was a fight to reclaim a segment of the nation that seceded because it refused to accept the prospect of the eventual abolition of slavery. That's very different from a rebellion to unseat a dictator over flagrant human rights abuses and refusal to allow democratic reforms.
The American Civil War is a good example of why Assad will lose. Once Grant turned the Civil War into a war of attrition, the South had no chance. The North had all the guns and butter. But worse yet, the South had to guard every bridge and tunnel and building against diseffected Southerners, something the North didn't have to do. Almost half the southern military was tied down guarding the South against southerners. Assad is in much the same position.
One difference is that the South started out the Civil War completely bankrupt while Assad had the nation's geld. And also Assad has one fairly strong ally, Iran, and a couple of weak-kneed sisters --- Russia and China. China just doesn't want to burn any bridges to any nations with oil and Russia doesn't want to lose its only overseas military base, especially one that would be critical to the survival of the Black Sea Fleet in the event of hostilities.
$70 million of U.S. money "given" to Israel for "their" defense but not a word of a joint coalition from various countries to stop the slaughter of human beings. Syria is not just a Muslim country it's also Christian. If Israelis were being killed by their own, there would have been a massive interference by the U.S. If "our" tax dollars can be used to save Israelis from Iranians, it should also be used to defend innocent people Christian & Muslim in Syria. What's fair for the goose should be fair for the gander. Israel is a first world country and yet they're the #1 recipient of U.S. foreign aid. Since 1948 we prop that self-made country up. If we care so much about human rights in Tienanmen Square in China and so many other places we'ved deemed as wrong or evil, it's ironic to see our politicians stalled on this slaughter. Maybe it will be another Rwanda as the world spectators do just that.......watch and do nothing.
If the rebels should fail, the blood letting will go on until anyone even remotely related to the rebels will die. I wish them the best of luck as they will need it.
Jack,
If the rebels should succeed, will everyone associated with Assad will be a target?
Maybe, maybe not. There are certainly people that will be braying for the blood of the Alawites, but there are also plenty of voices among the rebels and opposition pushing for moderation. In addition, a freed Syria that wants to join the international community properly would be under pressure to avoid revenge killings.
Of course, that doesn't mean it won't happen anyway. But if there were any such voices of reason among Assad's camp, they defected long ago.
So what? The rebels are using weapons that the U.N. and the U.S. is funneling to them on the sly. This is a civil war, and too bad if people are getting killed.
The rebels started this, and just think if someday we have a civil war we can surely count on those people to send our rebels weapons and money to fight and over throw our corrupt government.
How does Congress, Obama and the U.N. DEFINE a corrupt government, because there are millions of Americans that believe our government is corrupt.
So if those millions decided to wage war on Washington to get to the White House, what would we do? What would the U.N. do? Would the U.N. supply weapons to them?
The only people I care about are our people. We have so many problems here, and yet our tax dollars are used for every other counties and their troubles, that many Americans like me are just plain unaffected by what those rebels brought on themselves.
So if people are getting killed, I just don't care anymore. Think I'm alone, think again.
Steven100, I don't think you're alone. For what purpose would the Dept for Homeland Defense buy 450M (million) rounds of hollow point ammunition?
http://www.naturalnews.com/035607_government_checkpoints_Martial_Law.html
I'm not trying to be paranoid, but some articles that I've read seem to indicate that the government is preparing for a civil uprising. Here's one such example.
http://www.wnd.com/2012/07/obama-preparing-for-citizen-uprising/?cat_orig=diversions
Whether that will really happen or not, I don't know. Could be some crazy people spouting. At the same time it is true that there are many U.S. citizens that are armed, including myself. I have my guns because I like target shooting. And no I don't own any assualt rifles, just don't see the need to have one.
I feel much like you do, I think. I'm getting so tired of our country being the "big brother" to the world when we have so many problems of our own. I just wish we could get some term limits for the House and Senate so we could get rid of all the corrupt career politicians.
Perhaps I'm being a bit of a pessimist, but I think that it doesn't matter who wins in this coming election, we will all end up losing. Too much extremism on both sides to find middle ground any more.
So many people toss up the idea of a civil war or rebellion in the United States, ignoring the matter of context. WHY, exactly, would citizens go to battle against the government, to the point of attacking and killing other Americans? That question matters. If they want to kill all our duly elected legislators because they think they're corrupt, then that's a foolish reason to start a rebellion and a crackdown (albeit a less ruthless one than in Syria) would be justified. If our democratic institutions and the rule of law were being deliberately thwarted, such that democratic change isn't possible, then the rebels would have a point and perhaps a violent solution is necessary. Not all rebellions are the same.
Death to those who do not support my opinions!!!! Abadaba abadaba abadaba abadaba abadaba abadaba abadaba abadaba doooooo!!!!!
Are you Mitt the Twit or one of his useful pawns?
The problem with Stinger Missiles is they can bring down commercial and civilian aircraft. Hopefully, they are only talking about RPG's. We should not get involved in this conflict in any way. Iran would love to see Israel and the USA reeled into this conflict. If Russia and China are supplying 'anyone' in the Middle-East with these weapons it would actually surprise me, but, I wouldn't put anything past the French. Let the whole place implode I say. Sit this one out.
When and from whom did Syria get chemical weapons? Are they the missing Biological weapons spirited out of IRAQ just before the fall of Baghdad? On yeah they didn't exist............GW was right.
As far as I'm aware, they've had them for decades, and they manufactured them themselves. It has nothing to do with Iraq.
Kid you really need to stop watching FOX !
70 million to the Israeli's for defense ? wow ! That's like five Michelle vacations. Giving 70m to Israel is like giving catnip to a mountain lion while he's ravaging the chickenhouse. Or, is that just 'one upmanship' in response to Romney's BS rhetoric ? Meanwhile, people in Rwanda, Uganda, Darfur, Congo and elsewhere in Africa are being sluaghtered by the hundreds and we don't even send peanut butter.
Well if the Africans would have used the condoms we have been sending them since the early 80's less people would be dying.
I'm tired of hearing about everyone's problems. They made their beds let them sleep in it.
You guys are all being fooled expect for the few i'm glad not all of us are brain washed. This!!! is all being stage People plz wake up.. These rebels arnt who you think they are. Support Russia an China, I tell you This is all being Staged. nato An USA are supporting al-Qaida, MB WAKE UP people. These Rebels are being shiped in FROM IRAQ TURkey. LOOK at russia what they say about the bombing OF TOP leaders iN sryia WHAT DID RUSSIA say it is Terrorism. WAKE UP open YOUR EYES. These news are lies TRYING TO TRICK YOU GUYS. WHY DO YOU THINK THEY TOOK control OF Border Crossing. SO they Can Flood IN these Terriost. THESE REBELs are killing SCORES of people IN SYRIA AN THE BRAIN washing MEDIA is using it to MAKE it look like AsSADs GOVERNMENT did it. THE Problem Here FOR THE NATO the rebels cant hold on to territory SO nato cant do what they did in LIBYA no fly zones to straggle SYRIA TO DEATH. WAKE UP WAKE UP open your eyes. Read reports of the people of syria they want Assad/ Miltary to protect them There being murderd by these rebels an you People cheer them on. This is sad an very sick to see people cheer on murders. Let me give u a Q? ASssad or Chaos.
Wake-up Ajosen and learn to type in English. We get it...you support Assad but...where do you get your information ? Seems like you are brainwashed yourself.
I dont know Alumette where do u get your information Cnn fox? Go to german news or check russia news They will show al-Qaida have been murdering mass people in Syria , tho CNN will tell ya it was the miltary
I'm not sure about German news (what company, exactly?), but why on Earth would I trust Russian news over American or British news? Especially when the Russians seem to believe what the Syrian media (controlled by the Syrian government) seems to be saying?
"Support Russia and China"? Yeah, sure. Dictatorships for everybody!
SF accountant- , BBC was recently caught publishing a photograph it claimed was of a massacre at Al-Houla on 25 May 2012, in which 108 persons are known to have died including 49 children. It turned out the picture had been taken by Italian photo journalist, Marco Di Lauro in Iraq in 2003. Yes USA news is so trustful
Yeah, okay, so what?
That's bad, but is that supposed to prove that the entire rebellion has been lies and that every news outlet is making this stuff up? Is that supposed to make me trust RUSSIA? Or China, which firmly and openly censors its media?
That one fact doesn't support a single thing you've claimed in your first post. It just proves BBC has a dearth of good photographs of the Syrian conflict. You'll need to do better than that to support such an absurd conclusion.
It' time for the Arab world to put down weapons and pick up books, besides the Quran.
Same for the Evangelical Conservative right wingNUT and the Bible.
The rebels need surface to air missiles to down these Assad jets. Unfortunately, I think he has a large number of them. Things are getting worst ....I don't see how this mess is going to end. For sure Assad is not leaving. There is a flashing newsreel saying Panetta threatened Iran with military means if they do not dismantle their nuclear facility. Well, this should "ease" the tension in the region. Maybe they can make sure they only hit on the target and nothing else. We could not have a war with the Iranian people. Most of them do not want their regime but are stuck with it.
Assad might have a large number of jets, but they're next to useless in most of this conflict. In urban fighting against mainly infantry, planes can't do much besides bomb buildings and hope enemies are inside. That's stupidly expensive and wasteful, especially when you can do the same thing with artillery.
The fact that the rebels have shown up with tanks finally gave them a tactical target. As soon as the tanks are gone, the planes probably will be too.
@Bobby Jones Bia
I get your opinion on that. However, rebel factions in Africa have been killing thousands for years. We're currently involved in 7 of those countries with 'boots on the ground' in five. It's no secret. Kenya is our base of Operations for the AO. AIDS and HIV is only a small part of their issues there. I think it's time other countries step up to the plate and help out. China is getting in there now, but, of course we're judgemental and assume they have selfish motives, as do the French. I believe our entire foreign policy needs to be revamped and no aid to any foreign countries so long as we are still unable to resolve our own domestic issues and unable to secure even our own borders. Not to mention our own economy has been going downhill. Ask any European.
"UN: Syria using fighter jets against rebels with tanks" --- Are only ALI BABA and the FORTY THIEVES allowed to use PLANES/MISSILES/DRONES/WHITE PHOSPHOROUS against REBELS? Hey UN were you SLEEPING when ALI BABA and the FORTY THIEVES were, and still are, doing this? Or are you part and parcel of ALI BABA AND THE FORTY THIEVES?
These articles protray something more horrific each week. Why don't they come out and just say it: We're going to get involved with yet another conflict costing us lives and monies we can't afford
They can't come out and say that because nobody in our government has said that. It would be pretty stupid of them to claim "United States sick of seeing horror and slaughter; deploys troops" only to have Obama shrug and for nothing to happen. Do you think NBC controls our military?
It's election year both sides are leary of taking a stance on Syria because of how it might effect their political images.
A real president wouldn't be concerned with their political image and would see that a despotic leader is murdering innocent civilians just because they protested against Assad who has been a dictator in Syria for the last 40 years.
A real American president would side with the Syrian rebels to remove Assad so the Syrians could vote their own leadership into Syrian offices.
I read from a lot of different sources that many Syrians even those who have defected from Assad's regime said its time for Assad to go and that democratic elections need to take place so dictators like Assad do not conduct operations such as he is doing against the will of the people.
With Assad gone Putin's days as a dictator will be numbered as well.
I agree, Dwight. But as I've gathered from much of the discussion surrounding these articles, it seems even supporting democracy and freedom becomes controversial when Muslims are involved.
brazen example of political manipulation, BBC was recently caught publishing a photograph it claimed was of a massacre at Al-Houla on 25 May 2012, in which 108 persons are known to have died including 49 children. It turned out the picture had been taken by Italian photo journalist, Marco Di Lauro in Iraq in 2003. Putin and Russia’s foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, have made clear were NATO and the USA to launch military action against Assad’s Syria, the consequences would be staggering. The New York Times, has been forced to admit that the CIA has been pouring arms into the Syrian opposition. They reported, “C.I.A. officers are operating secretly in southern Turkey, helping allies decide which Syrian opposition fighters across the border will receive arms to fight the Syrian government, according to American officials and Arab intelligence officers. On Wednesday, CNN’s crew met a Libyan fighter who had crossed into Syria from Turkey with four other Libyans. The fighter wore full camouflage and was carrying a Kalashnikov rifle. He said more Libyan fighters were on the way. Russia's only existing naval base outside the former Soviet Union is located in the Syrian port of Tartus. A squadron of Russian navy ships, including several assault ships carrying marines, is heading to Tartus in a show of support for a longtime ally that Moscow has protected from international sanctions and continues to supply with weapons.
So, wait, was the CIA actually "pouring arms" into the rebels? Because that article you just quoted made it sound like they were just helping Turkey with intelligence while other people supplied them.
Not that I really care either way, but I want to be sure for when I respond to people complaining about American warmongering/meddling/imperialism/what-have-you.
How is that media manipulation of masses if its the truth?
SF accountant- I dont know dude i dont think New York times takes time to make @!$%# up in that case your just proving my point western news is controlled
I'm not proving any such point; if the NYT didn't say, it's probably because they didn't know. The rebels have reason to hide the sources of their weapons. That's not being "controlled", that's just having information withheld, a tactic every single organization on Earth uses when dealing with the media.
My point is that you're taking their involvement out of context, wielding it as evidence when it really isn't. We know that there is a line that our government has drawn between supporting the rebels and arming them, and you're claiming that they've crossed that line when your evidence suggests no such thing. The NYT or government isn't the one guilty of manipulation here, YOU are.
Pretty sure you're lying.
Obama and Hllary Clinton has played into the hands of jihadi extremists. In their haste to instill 'regime changes' Obama and Clinton have supported and armed these jihadis and helped them into power for the first time in the world: in Egypt, Libya and soon in Syria. There's not much difference between "Muslim Brotherhoods" and al-quaeda. All are jihadi hooligans who don't have any idea of what they are doing other than going berserk.
Israel is only now realizing that Syria's chemical weapons can fall into the hands of al-quaeda, and are preparing to send 30,000 troops into Syria.
Thanks to Obama's short-sighted 'foreign policy', the Mid East is fast becoming a haven for al-quaeda and other jihadis. Hope we won't have to send shiploads of troops and spend trillions of tax dollars to fight these very "rebels" that we are helping, now.
The problem with that is the USA/ Nato Is supplying AL-quaeda To over throw assad
There is a considerable difference between the Muslim Brotherhood and Al Quaeda. Your willingness to lump them together and condemn an enormous group of people as unthinking berserkers shows how little you really know about the factions involved in these conflicts. It isn't as simple as "Islamist = bad, secularist = good". These are still humans, and most have coherent motivations for what they do.
Finally, our government has done next to nothing in Syria's conflict. Blame him for Libya if you want (although you're wrong about that, too), but in Egypt and Syria Obama cannot be blamed for doing too much to help democracy along.
Well lets hope that if Isreal goes into Syria that they will only go after Assad's government forces and not both sides.
Isreal assisting the Syrian Rebels could be a defining moment in the affaris between Israel and Palestine where Hezbollah would drop its threats against Israel side with Israel in defeating Assad so that better relations between the two states will occur.
SF accountant- So Your saying USA didnt play apart in libya , How about the Nato Vote for no fly zones an Sanctions on Libya. But then again u have no idea what you talk about its childish to even read your comments. Oh ya these rebels are getting there supplys an money where. Oh wait if we believe SF they must of Dug it up out of the magic ground filled with weapons an money. Well damn if thats the case i should start digging to
Obama was practically dragged into the Libya operation, and even then tried to keep American involvement to a minimum while NATO did its work. So making him responsible for it, like he unilaterally declared war and up and invaded the place, is absurd. That's why I don't give Obama credit for Libya although obviously the US did play a part.
It's strange that you accuse me of being childish and then start using sarcasm mixed with talk of magic. The Syrian rebels have many supporters, and I don't see any reason to believe we're the ones arming them. Obviously, if you think we're just hiding it, you feel free to believe that. But you have no actual evidence to support your claim.
SF Accountant... who then fired the first 116 or so cruise missles in the opening salvo of the Lybia conflict? Yes.. thats right.. the USA...
The CIA has been actively arming the "rebels" through Turkey...
Ah yes helping democracy come along.. much like Bush.. its all BS..
"SF Accountant... who then fired the first 116 or so cruise missles in the opening salvo of the Lybia conflict? Yes.. thats right.. the USA..."
I know that. Please actually read what I stated before responding. We were involved in Libya. Heavily involved. But Obama didn't want to be. It took UN, Arab League, NATO, and domestic pressure to press him to allow it. And as soon as it was plausible to do so, he reduced US involvement to non-combat missions.
"The CIA has been actively arming the "rebels" through Turkey..."
That's your assumption, nothing more. If our administration had decided to arm the rebels, why would they hide it? We have enough reason to do so openly if we wanted to. But our administration has stated quite openly that they don't want to. And yes, I believe them.
"Ah yes helping democracy come along.. much like Bush.. its all BS.."
Very much UNlike Bush, actually. Which is why it could work. Establishing democracy is a worthwhile goal and I wish to see it play a greater part in our foreign policy. Doing it via unilateral military force doesn't seem to work, however. Aiding pro-democracy rebels could be the next experiment, but our administration doesn't seem to want it.
Syria = Muslims Rebels = Muslims , they both don't like Americans ! they only want too kill you ! there Flag Burners ! why help them !!! no aid to Muslim countries ! the headlines are great !!! at least 20 thousand American Muslim haters , were killed !!!!!!
Sam-375180- you have no idea what the hell your talking about. Please dont open your mouth an throw out dumb comments like that
@ Aj Does the truth hurt ?
Sam, I'm not sure why you're any different from them, celebrating their deaths because you've filed them into an arbitrary category that you've deemed "evil". That's just as horrible as people celebrating 9/11.
Even if they do hate America, why exactly does everyone have to like us in order to enjoy basic human rights and democracy? I happen to believe that people have rights regardless of their opinion of America.
Notice, they don't name the country that's arming the terrorists.
I just named the countrys arming the terrorist But your wright western news is controled to favor western plans
I smell a Muslim troll !
There's no verified data, but I'm betting its Turkey or Saudi Arabia. Maybe the entire Arab League.
What a bunch of cowards Shiites are?
They talk big, act big and show their bravery before unarmed minorities like Jews, women and others. Then they add their dances when they stone them.
Shiites of Iraq should side with Kurds and should stop oil supplies to Turkey for supporting the Sunni Islamic extremists like al-Qaida, MB in Syria.
Shiites of Bahrain should overthrow their autocratic, corrupt and despotic Sunni ruler.
As they have been taking blows and killings by Sunnis, these Sunnis are able to act as they like to Shiites.
Shiites of Iran should side with Assad and see that all the Sunni rebels are eliminated.
What are the brave Hezbollah doing?
They should do suicide bombings in Mecca and Medina. Or else Shiites genocides just like the genocides of non-Muslims by the Sunni Islamic religious Nazis will continue.
The rebels have tanks now and we have drones. uhuh...The point is we know where the tanks came from. Your welcome. No really rebels are not real rebels unless they are rebels if you know what I mean. Who is the money behind the rebels then we can call the kettle black. Maybe Hilary can find out for us ehh ! If they can see a fly on my nose they can figure out where da tanks came from . Your welcome !
The question is what will President Obama do after he is re-elected? Will he emplore the Arab League to take action against Syria supplying the Arab League with equipment that can then be supplied to the Syrians to fight against Assad?
What will Romney do?
Given Obama's stance against terrorism Obama would be the best president to retain because of his stance against terrorism.
Romney on the other would invite terrorists to attack across the Middle East because of his very likeable nature in wanting to be the "President Who Was Liked the Best." I don't think Romney would sacrifice his self image to take a military stance against Assad and his leash master Putin and China.
After all Romney is guilty of outsourcing jobs to China which would put him in a really good position to not support the Syrian Freedom fighters against Assad because of his businesses practices with China thus allowing an even larger massacre to occur.
Regardless of which religious groups Assad has on his side the simple fact of the matter is he is committing genocide of a certain group of people the same that Saddam Hussein did as well as the same as what Hitler did.
Is it going to take 100,000+ Syrians to die before any action is taken against Assad?
to the rebels turn your gun on the russians and the chinks chinese