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Goran Tomasevic / Reuters
Free Syrian Army fighters take cover behind sand bags during clashes in Aleppo on Sunday.
NEWS ANALYSIS
Richard Engel, NBC News' chief foreign correspondent, has just left Syria after spending three weeks reporting on rebel forces in the north of the war-torn country. Based on his three weeks of reporting, he offers an analysis of what could happen if the international community does not intervene in the conflict.
ISTANBUL, Turkey – Al-Qaida units are already entering Syria.
Pickup trucks waving their black flags and carrying hard-looking men are increasingly evident on Syrian country roads.
It wasn't like this just a few weeks ago. A year-and-a-half ago, Syrian rebels started the fight to topple President Bashar Assad’s corrupt police state and end four decades of sectarian favoritism. The majority of Syrians are Sunni Muslims but they have been ruled by Assad’s Alawite sect, an offshoot of Shiite Islam.
Rebel forces claim to have downed a Syrian fighter jet
The rebels have watched Russia arm the government. They have seen Shiite Iran and the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah send fighters and military advisors to help Assad.
They have also watched the United Nations send observers without authority, and the United States make what seem to many appear to be toothless condemnations.
Rebels say minority Shiite and Alawite Muslims, the groups that have ruled Syria for decades, are being left alone in the carnage inflicted by Syrian troops. NBC's Richard Engel reports.
So al-Qaida, the world’s most extremist Sunni group, is offering itself as a solution, a savior of the revolution. It is arriving flush with money and weapons, as I reported last week.
I have spoken with rebel units who told me they were offered large amounts of money, in exchange for pledging allegiance to al-Qaida. But it comes with a caveat: they can not leave. One rebel commander told me that one of his relatives had joined al-Qaida and tried to leave – but was executed for his apparent treason.
Still others are taking up the opportunity.
"I will go to [al-Qaida], and raise their flag if they give me support," one rebel told me.
"I'd take money from al-Qaida. What choice do I have? I can't defend myself or my family," another rebel commander said. "I'll take the al-Qaida support, and then deal with them later. Otherwise there won't be a later."
At least 262 al-Qaida militants are now operating in the border area between Turkey and Syria and rebels say another group of fighters are living in a tented camp just outside Aleppo, Syria's largest city. NBC's Richard Engel reports.
He's the most secular Syrian I know. He hates al-Qaida, but feels he may have to deal with the devil to save his family and village.
Even the most secular rebel groups say they're tempted, and no wonder. I've seen rebels at checkpoints with empty magazines in the rifles. They have homemade grenades in pipes and shaving cream cans.
The country's biggest city, Aleppo, has been under attack for two weeks and the rebels are dangerously close to running out of weapons. Now Riad Hijab, the first Syrian cabinet minister to defect, has fled the country. NBC's Richard Engel reports.
It's easy to forget that without international support, the rebels in Libya would have lost the war and been massacred. And the Syrian rebels are asking for much less than what was given to Libya. They don't want ground troops, although they would take a no-fly zone, if offered. All they’re really asking for is ammunition and a few hundred anti-aircraft and anti-tank rockets.
Violence intensifying in Syria: the battle continues in Aleppo
Meanwhile, the United States says it doesn't know who to arm, and that it doesn’t want to give weapons to the wrong people.
While Saudi Arabia and Qatar are believed to be arming Syrian rebels, and the United States and Britain pledged to step up non-lethal assistance to Assad's opponents, many say this is far from enough.
Al-Qaida may be trying to infiltrate rebel groups battling Syrian government forces. NBC's chief foreign correspondent Richard Engel tells about the evidence of the terrorist group's presence.
The United States, rebels say, is paralyzed because of the upcoming presidential elections. Washington can’t take decisive action because of November’s vote, many rebels contend.
US, Turkey explore no-fly zones over Syria
So while the vast majority of rebels hate the idea of an al-Qaida base in Syria, they also don't want Assad to stay in power and continue his killing spree. And international inaction may give the United States' worst enemy a gift that it has always wanted – a base at the heart of the Middle East.
NBC News
People resisting the army of President Bashar Assad in northern Syria cope with loss and prepare for fighting.
And this would be a danger to Syria, its neighbors, and the United States.
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- 'There will be no winner in Syria,' UN chief warns
- Three US special ops troops killed, Afghan officials say
- Body found at home of missing UK girl's grandmother
- Day at Olympics well worth $1,000 for family of four, NJ fans say
- Notorious Colombian druglord arrested, headed to US for trial
Leave a Comment:
Good. Let them bleed their own resources dry. Getting us to spend exhorbatant sums are how they defeat us, and its how they defeated the Soviets. The Syrians will turn on them later, just as they would have turned on us if we had helped them.
If we have a knee-jerk reaction to just go wherever Al Qaeda appears we will spend ourselves into ruin.
Assad's brutal regime against al Quaida? Good. Let them annihilate each other. Neither side is worth backing here.
So where does Richard Engel derive this ability sift good guys from bad guys? Let me guess - Dept of State.
Shame on MSNBC. These are pimps not journalists.
Third...agree with you, we must stay the hell out of these backward, hate filled, illiterate countries and thier muslim followers. Look at Egypt, the USA cheered the rebels, and we gave them tremendous support and then what happened? Conservative muslims take over, and plan now to make sharia the law of the land and subjugate all the Egyptians to the cruel backward culture of islam. Let these ignorant fools solve their own problems, stay the hell away!
The US needs to stay out of this mess. One way or another al-Qaeda is going to have a presence in Syria if Assad is overthrown. Many of the rebels are already al-Qaeda to start with. As the article say,al-Qaeda is a Sunni organization and if the Sunnis get control of Syria they will welcome al-Qaeda with open arms. This is particularly true with the influence that Hezbollah has with the rebels who are strong supporters of al-Qaeda.
If the US attempts to establish a no-fly zone in Syria we risk a head to head confrontation with Russia and China. The only smart move for the US is to just stay out of it. Let them kill each other and wait for the dust to settle. Then we can decide what to do based on the outcome. It is not like if we help the rebels we are going to earn any log term loyalty from them. As soon as Assad is gone they will turn on us and use whatever we supply them with against us.
Thanks to US starting a war with Iraq Al-qaida is now very strong there. That is what happens when governments are destabilized.
This isn't about whether Al Qaida gains a foothold or not. It's about whether we help our neighbors remove themselves from under the boot of a brutal dictator.
Providing weapons is a far cry from a full scale invasion as done by republicans in Iraq. Now, they (republicans) seem to have swung back to the opposite extreme. The middle ground is the strongest.
Come on Barry... show us what you're made of... SPEAK OUT against this or remain silent and vote PRESENT once again..............
BUT! BUT! BUT! I thought Al Qaeda was done. I mean, Barrack Hussein himself flew that helicopter into the compound as the Seals went in and took Osama Porn Laden out. That was supposed to fix everything.
No?
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!
When will all you Barrack chair sniffers realize Bin Laden was nothing more than a picture on a "MOST WANTED" poster. He has been insignificant for years. It was important for us to get him simply for the symbolism after what he did on 9/11.
How many of their 2nd and 3rd in line have we killed and they are stronger than ever.
This just gets more and more interesting. We need to stop blowing our money in the Middle East. Overspending on unnecessary wars is what cripples large empires. It happened to Great Britain, France, Spain, the Ottomans, Rome etc... Our best bet is to get out of the Middle East now and let these people blow themselves up. It's not pretty but stay out of a civil war.
Ian Emdee
Does the name Osama Bin Laden ring a bell? Because that's exactly what they did at the time, they provided him (and his "friends") with weapons. A few years later our "rebel friends" showed us their gratitude with 9/11 (and many other terrorist attacks before and after 9/11).
Hopefully we have learned from the past, and will stay out of this conflict.
I am sorry for the rebels who are secular and truly want freedom and democracy (assuming there is at least a few of them) tho, they have my respect for their courage, and I wish we could help them, and only them, achieve victory.
If they take al qaida weapons and support, then thats their decision and they will live or die by it....let the russians fight it out with al qaida...if they want freedom then they will have to fight a long war....
Hey, Syrian rebels ----- Get your Muslim brethren to provide you with needed supplies, both weaponry and humanitarian assistance. Saudi Arabia and Egypt have ample, front line weapons which COULD be provided to you. ASK THEM !!! The Arab Spring uprisings are of Middle East concern. No Western nations should intervene militarily, politically, or even through declaring "support" for your nebulous goals. These conflicts are in the Middle East neighborhood and should remain there, WITHOUT ANY outside intrusion, PERIOD !
PJ,
"So where does Richard Engel derive this ability sift good guys from bad guys? Let me guess - Dept of State."
Or maybe from actually being there in Syria and talking with the people. Have you been in Syria and talked with them? I would imagine you can tell a lot more about people from actually talking with them than you can from just reading about them in the news or in books.
Mickey-1983943
You would think so. Unfortunately it is not always the case, especially not when you are dealing with extremists and/or Islamists. Anything goes to advance the cause of Islam.
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muslims_Caught_Using_Deception#Lies_in_the_Name_of_Islam
Hey JimSpence......you said:
Here's (your) Dubya Bush:
CNN: 2001, President George W. Bush 'Bin Laden, Wanted dead or alive'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFgn4EaCGQA
It seems Dubya considered Bin Laden's demise more important than you do. Thankfully, you are not making the tough decisions. Rather, you just snipe from the sidelines. That is as it should be.
-Anna-.....you said:
Yes, "they" (the Reagan/Bush administrations) provided those fighting the Soviet Union in Afghanistan with weapons (most weapons BTW, were captured from the Soviets).
But, there is a vital (but, still unresolved) difference here. That is: what the U.S. does once the rebels overthrow a tyrant.
If we turn our backs (as we did in Afghanistan), we defer to whomever steps into the power vacuum. On the other hand, if we stay engaged in positive ways with those who are democratically put into positions of power, we have a better chance of fostering friends than enemies.
Anna,
"You would think so. Unfortunately it is not always the case, especially not when you are dealing with extremists and/or Islamists. Anything goes to advance the cause of Islam."
You are referring to the practice of "taqiyya" with which I am familiar. But you can go too far in believing that everyone of a particular religion is a liar just because that religion allows lying is certain cases. Both Christianity and Judaism have also allowed lying historically during times of persecution and at other times as well. Have you ever heard of the Jewish Marranos? They were false Christians who lived in Spain during the period of persecution there and pretended to convert to Christianity while continuing to practice Judaism in secret. If you want examples of some Jewish and Christian lying, check out these links:
http://rense.com/general92/talmud.htm
http://www.evilbible.com/common_lies.htm
It would be possible to come up with many more, but I think you get my point which is that not everyone who belongs to a particular religion should be suspected of being a liar just because that religion may allow lying under certain circumstances.
Moot point article?
We know no one is getting involved who isn't in the region.
And those in the region are already heavily involved.
So, exactly what does this journalistic rhetorical question attempt to do other than sell some advertising?
Okay, probably too harsh. I generally approve of Engel's article, but I think, really, the writing is on the wall that world powers have no interest in getting directly involved in Syria, and that is even if it gives a place for the rise to Al Quaeda, again.
The "rebels" ARE al Qaida, what the Christ do you mean, "tempted" by al Qaida???
It's been that way since DAY ONE!
Ian
I understand that you have good intentions, and you would like to help people (and I respect you for that). However, your suggestion would require even more meddling, and unfortunately this would make things even worse (in my opinion). Look at Afghanistan for instance, we meddled, and meddled again, but the Taliban is still around, our soldiers are getting killed, we are spending billions, and still no real peace in sight. The only positive outcome I can think of is that women can now get an education and practice sports, but even that is very fragile, and will probably be lost the minute NATO is gone.
And when all is said and done, the US always end up getting blamed for everything (including deaths caused by insurgents).
And it is not our "job" to decide who will be the leaders in their country any more then it is theirs to decide who will be our leader(s).
You say we "turned our backs to Afghanistan" (after the Soviet war), I say it was not our business to do anything there, it was, and still is, their country, not ours. And honestly I think that for the most part we don't understand fundamentalist muslims (or extremists) well, we are often too naive, and even when we do understand we still disagree on so many levels, to where it is difficult to have normal diplomatic relations with them.
Note that I would be all for helping the rebels in Syria, if we could be certain that the ones we are helping actually want freedom and democracy, and won't turn into dictators themselves.
Mickey-1983943
I will stop you right there. I don't. I have great friends who are muslim and I would trust them with my life.
As long as the United States is seen as the "Evil Empire" Al-Qaeda, will remain and grow in the Muslim world ... We have changed the dynamics of the area so dramatically over the last fifty years ... there is little hope for for our influence to do anything but deteriorate, as it has for the last 40 or more years ... with a vast number of the population of the area .... We have been used ..
They have a love/hate relationship with us ... and we would be better served to let someone else be the scapegoat for awhile ...
Al-Qaeda entrance into Syria changes the dynamics in a most alarming way... any foothold they achieve there is not in the interest of the United States, Europe, Great Britain, or most of the players of the region.. something will happen ..
This story is attempting to put a useful spin on the fact that we have been supporting Al Queda in Syria in order to overthrow the Assad regime.
Not a big surprise as we helped them get started in the terrorism business by funding them in Afghanistan in the 1980's in order to overthrow a russian backed regime.
We don't have any principals democratic, humane or otherwise. We will do anything to support what corporations and the international rich want.
We gave billions of dollars of aid to Saddam Hussein in the 1980's then when he was no longer useful declared him "worse the Hitler" and attacked him and overthrew his regime (killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in the process).
Play it again, Uncle Sam.
Supporting right-wing Islamic Terrorists to further U.S. Geo Political ambitions is an old song.
And the U.S. corporate media always supports it and helps out like Engels article on MSNBC.
1980's:
….The origins of al-Qaeda as a network inspiring terrorism around the world and training operatives can be traced to the Soviet War in Afghanistan (December 1979 – February 1989).[18] The U.S. viewed the conflict in Afghanistan, with the Afghan Marxists and allied Soviet troops on one side and the native Afghan mujahideen, some of whom were radical Islamic militants, on the other, as a blatant case of Soviet expansionism and aggression. A CIA program called Operation Cyclone channeled funds through Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency to the Afghan Mujahideen who were fighting the Soviet occupation….
….U.S. government financial support for the Afghan Islamic militants was substantial. Aid to Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, an Afghan mujahideen leader. and founder and leader of the Hezb-e Islami radical Islamic militant faction, alone amounted "by the most conservative estimates" to $600 million. Later, in the early 1990s, after the U.S. had withdrawn support, Hekmatyar "worked closely" with bin Laden.[82] In addition to receiving hundreds of millions of dollars in American aid, Hekmatyar was the recipient of the lion's share of Saudi aid.[83] There is evidence that the CIA supported Hekmatyar's drug trade activities by giving him immunity for his opium trafficking, which financed the operation of his militant faction…
2012:
Obama authorized covert support for Syrian rebels, sources say
August 01, 2012|By Elise Labott, CNN
President Barack Obama has signed a covert directive authorizing U.S. support for Syrian rebels battling President Bashar al-Assad's forces, U.S. officials told CNN on Wednesday...
http://articles.cnn.com/2012-08-01/us/us_syria-rebels-us-aid_1_syrian-rebels-syrian-opposition-free-syrian-army
….Gulf states such as Saudi Arabia and Qatar have pledged to help supply the Syrian rebels, but the extent of the aid is unclear. Rebel commanders have consistently complained about lack of ammunition, including during recent battles in Aleppo. Last week, anti-regime protesters across Syria staged rallies calling for greater anti-aircraft firepower…
http://www.mercurynews.com/top-stories/ci_21301545/syrian-rebels-say-they-shot-down-fighter-jet
"not everyone who belongs to a particular religion should be suspected of being a liar"
Religion is lying. That's what it is. If it weren't, it would be called science.
The U.S., Western Europe and Israel are behind this "civil war" and for the usual reasons:
http://www.dropshots.com/OldCrow2#date/2012-08-12/15:18:47
Folks, it makes zero sense to say "We shouldn't get involved in another Middle East conflict." It's too late -- it's like trying to change into dry clothes when you're already neck deep in a swamp. IF WE DO NOTHING, WE ARE DE FACTO SUPPORTING ASSAD.
That's fine if you think Assad will win, but history shows pretty strongly that he will lose. Then the new folks who come into power will remember that we piddled and did nothing while Al-qaeda came through for them.
Absolutely, there are bound to be some people in Syria who would support them regardless, just like there are some who are predisposed to be sympathetic to us. By doing nothing, we are giving support to our enemies and undercutting our friends.
Could someone explain to me what the downside is of shipping them a bunch of crates of ammo and RPGs? We're not about to put boots on the ground, so it's not like it will get used against us. Worst case, it's too little, too late, and the new government ends up hating us anyway. In that case the effect is pretty much zero. But if we can actually engender even a tiny bit of gratitude from Syria's new rulers, that could be worth millions of times more than the paltry few millions it would take for a resupply effort.
"Dual-loyalist" is giving this zionist the benefit of the doubt. He is an American living in Jerusalem and sells us the Israeli line ALWAYS. The perfect propagandist for pro-zionist NBC.
The zionist regime wants to overturn Assad and then have an endless war as the various factions slaughter each other. Now that al Qaeda (if we are being given the facts) has a foothold in Syria the US will have an excuse to add fuel to that fire in some form that feeds money to the Military/Industrial/Congressional Complex.
Go Barry! Your desire for another 4 years supersedes the lives of countless muslims and further erodes US safety…yet it didn’t for Libyans? You are a HYPOCRITE!
Just look how he screwed up Egypt! MB is taking over there! Since Foreign Policy is NOT his forte and Iran is using this to their advantage, GOD help us!
John Bolton, Carl Rove and Dick Cheney have the ear of Romney to get us involved in another war.
Take OIL out of the equation...and they have no interest.
A lie is "A false statement deliberately presented as being true". Religion is based on faith which is a "belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence". There is a huge difference between a false statement and a statement that cannot be proven or dis-proven.
Also, I'm not religious. I just don't like to see others miss-characterized.
-Anna-......
The essential truth (regarding Syria) is that U.S. support of democracy rather than (as we have done historically) convenient dictators is the right thing to do.
Fortunately, it is also the smart thing to do. Let us debate the details so long as we stay true to this principle.
People always think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. My niece was in college with a young Libyan when war broke out he quit school and went back to fight with the rebels. At first he kept in contact with his classmates then nothing. He did send the message he doubted he will ever be able to come back and finish his education. He wished he had stayed here and finished instead of going back.
Every country Obama has helped overthrow the government is now controlled by the muslime brotherhood and al-qaeda. Here is the tragedy of what happened to Libya when we helped remove Qaddafi. Here's what 40 years of this 'terrible' dictator did to the people of Libya. I believe he was an embarrassment to the rest of the leaders of the world.
16 Things Libya Will Never See Again…
There is no electricity bill in Libya; electricity is free for all its citizens.
There is no interest on loans, banks in Libya are state-owned and loans given to all its citizens at zero percent interest by law.
Having a home considered a human right in Libya.
All newlyweds in Libya receive $60,000 dinar (U.S.$50,000) by the government to buy their first apartment so to help start up the family.
Education and medical treatments are free in Libya. Before Gaddafi only 25 percent of Libyans were literate. Today, the figure is 83 percent.
Should Libyans want to take up farming career, they would receive farming land, a farming house, equipments, seeds and livestock to kickstart their farms are all for free.
If Libyans cannot find the education or medical facilities they need, the government funds them to go abroad, for it is not only paid for, but they get a U.S.$2,300/month for accommodation and car allowance.
If a Libyan buys a car, the government subsidizes 50 percent of the price.
The price of petrol in Libya is $0.14 per liter.
Libya has no external debt and its reserves amounting to $150 billion are now frozen globally.
If a Libyan is unable to get employment after graduation the state would pay the average salary of the profession, as if he or she is employed, until employment is found.
A portion of every Libyan oil sale is credited directly to the bank accounts of all Libyan citizens.
A mother who gives birth to a child receive U.S.$5,000.
40 loaves of bread in Libya costs $0.15.
25 percent of Libyans have a university degree.
Gaddafi carried out the world’s largest irrigation project, known as the Great Manmade River project, to make water readily available throughout the desert country.
Be careful what you wish for you might just get it.
This humanitarian issue will be crossing the border to Turkey...
Most Westerners think al-Qaida went defunct when bin Laden was killed. WRONG!
Bin Laden died in Nov 2001. Daniel Pearl was killed because he was going to bring the news to America. Pakistani leader Benazir Bhutto discusses this in an interview you can watch on youtube. Bin Laden, Daniel Pearl and Benazir Bhutto were all assasinated by the same group lead by a Pakistani inteligence officer with cia ties.
This is Russia's Fault
America should arm the rebels, before al Qaida does it. We hesitate, fearing Islamic extremists might be part of the Syrian rebellion. But by holding back, all we do is guarantee that the Islamic extremists will become part of the rebellion.
I disagree. What we should do is just defend ourselves and stay out of the way.
Whoever comes out on top over there will be subject to factional fighting that will make Iraq look like a fairground. Let them use up their own assets rather than ours. If the Russians and the Saudis want to go at it in a proxy war, let them. We should just be spectators and maybe beef up our security at home a little more.
Who do you think the "rebels" are? Helloooo. Hey media, aren't you jumping ahead considerably? Why are you ignoring the situation in nearby Egypt? First things first ... you need to be worried about the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt "gaining a foothold". While you were busy trying to keep Obama in a positive light and trying to get Obama in another war he can't win, the Muslim Brother is on the verge of having control of essentially OUR military hardware in Egypt.
So much for the "Arab-Spring". The Arab Spring has turned into a mad power grab for the extremist in the middle east. Why do you think the US put these harsh dictators in power in the first place. They were the lesser of two evils.
The Syrians have killed more muslims than israel has in 20 years and yet there is no worldwide protesting by the islamic community.
@Doctor Crispy:
So we help out with a no fly zone. Not enough?
So we help out by arming the rebels. Not enough?
So we help out with boots on the ground, etc., ad infinitum.
Then the Arab Spring comes to Syria, and "someone" (the good guys?) comes to power.
Is that what we want again? To spend millions, or billions, to help this "someone" come to power? "Someone" who will then have weapons provided by us as well? "Someone" when we don't even know who that "someone" will be?
Sounds iffy, dangerous, and stupid.
Sounds like people have amnesia as well.
STAY OUT OF SYRIA.
Doctor Crispy
You mean like we did with Osama Bin Laden a few years ago? It didn't turn out too well did it?
Well doctor crispy, the recruitment station is just around the corner, sign up and we'll send your sorry a$$ over there along with the weapons....
If you send arms to the 'rebels' of Libya, you will simply strengthen the arm of Al-Qaida's terrorism throughout the world.
Show me an army composed entirely of honorable Muslims, from the 'Religion of Peace' that claim they will fight against Al Qaida and Taliban and, I'll show you a 12 pack of Trojans.
Hummmmmmm Sometimes, interest are better served ... letting the fight continue, using up the combatants resources & finances ...and picking up the pieces ... when they are exhausted ... and in need ...
Seriously? American inaction is handing the country over the AQ? Since when has American action in the Middle East led to anything other than empowering radical Islamists? Every time we got rid of some odious regime or other, it's been replaced with a worse one - odious and Islamist.. at least Assad is secularly odious. Libya might be a half-baked exception.. but if it is, it's the only one.
All Syria has is China's oil, and any regime that replaces Assad will hate China (and Russia) for backing Assad. So, doing nothing is a win-win situation for us. If we go in, we simply protect China's oil and have to deal with a worse regime later after we waste American lives and treasure. If we do nothing, China loses it's oil and we get the same odious replacement regime. I don't see why this is even a debate.
And American presidents should have the following little bit added to their oaths of office: "I will not involve the US militarily in the internal affairs and civil wars of hopelessly disordered tribal societies."
Tough decision: Damned if you do; Damned if you don't
Give them the no fly zone and that's it.. Leave the rest to the rebellion!! Yup 4 years in college is all it took to come up with that one! Next world dilemma please
Good luck Barrack you fuggin moron
You signing up for the fight when the Bain-a-nator starts his war. Naw you'll pull a Bushney and save the souls of the French while Rogering and Wilcoing in the wild blue yonder.
Actually if we don't (send them weapons and/or send the military to help them), and they do (join a terrorist organisation), what does that tell us about them? Personally if I had to choose between Assad and Al Qaida, I would pick Assad anytime. (Thank God I don't have to make that choice tho)
If they do, they will be the ones who damned themselves.
Be massacred by a brutal dictator, or sign my life away in the service of extremist. Ya it is a tough choice, you can't judge their decision when most of them just want their families to be safe. Your logic Anna = Fail. You can't say you'd pick Assad like you know what they're going through. You have no idea.
You are entitled to your opinion John Doe, however I stand by mine. Joining Al Qaida is a very bad choice, for everyone, except Al Quaida.
And are you a syrian yourself John? because I doubt you know Assad very much. He is actually quite moderate compared to Al Qaida and many other fundamentalist muslims, like the Taliban for example. (note here that I am not saying its ok to kill people)
I would also have picked the Shah of Iran anytime over Khomeini, despite his shortcomings, he also was quite moderate compared to Khomeini.
Hold up now, I thought our "senior leadership" told us that al Qaida was done? What happened?
It's a matter of the starfish versus the spider. People who won't see this for what it is are going to pay the price for it. People who see it for what it is and are trying to downplay the threat are doing a great disservice to those that put them in their place of power.
It's not like they are a country or something. Buy a black flag and call yourself Al Qaeda and you are. What does it mean for something like that to be done?
When exactly did they say that? The only one who ever said the mission was accomplished was Junior. Remember that, just before we lost some 5,000 troops? At least Obama cleaned up Junior's mess and took out Bin Laden. You're simply ignorant if you thought anyone implied that made Al Qaida "done".
Valid, nice way to politicize something that wasn't meant to be political. You're missing the bigger point and that's what's going to keep us collectively in this rut.
As for when? Look for yourself:
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2011/07/al-qaeda/40450/
Thanks again for turning this into something that it's not to server your own political ideology.
Third Way,
That's what I mean by a spider versus a starfish.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Starfish_and_the_Spider
This rumor has been running long time ago; what if al-Qaida may borrow some forces and sympathy, then they may indeed save some $.
And what if the rumor is wrong, then what will happen to the people there?
Assess; accurate assessment is needed.
Look these people still consider death by stoning to be an appropriate punishment for things like heresy or adultery. They make Cheney and Rumsfeld look like Mary Poppins by comparison. We have nothing like them in siginificant numbers over here. They have the government they probably deserve. If we make them our problem, they will just turn on us and it will all be to our detriment.
To Hillary ( Obama's lap dog), Stay out , be quiet, stop telling leaders of sovereign Countries what they should do!! Stay out of Syria!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@joe, Quite picking on Hillary. Only a wouse does that. I realize you can't see the problem with your face in Romneys butt. The problem here is China and Russia don't want interference in Syrias Civil War and holding back the UN on wanting to help. You haven't got a clue what an Ambassador job is, which is why they haven't you to fill the position. I'm with Russia on this but don't mind the Idea of helping with some ammo to the Rebels. Now if your going to say something, say in a manner that has some substance to it.
It must not be more than arming Libya to free Syria, so why not? If it helps getting a foothold against Iran!
Because the Libyans and the Syrians are not the same, that's why and because that whole region is a flashpoint. We will be between the Sunnis and the Shiites just like in Iraq, only worse.
Yah, but this is about democracy in Syria... a helping hand based upon more equal rights for Syrians who want more freedoms and a more just government like in the United States. This is a step towards the right direction, why add more if it only instill fear? Sounds more of a sin to confuse people by trying to scare them about the negatives, when it is only positive about giving humans the right to vote for their own representation.
It's not about democracy. Democracy is against Islam. The mullahs and imams have said so. Like in Egypt, they might get one vote per person. Once.
Libya and Syria are very much alike...Both have Sunni Muslim majority....and Sunni Muslims are very hostile...
@Third way,
Your so right. Same war, different country and there is no "sane" way of stopping it!
I still think an undemocratic government is more of a threat to the United States than a democractic government. Since Syria and Egypt (... and other Arabian countries) have become more democratic with presidential election, I believe the citizens of such countries have more in common with Americans than before and think more alike us.... so that is why I believe Syria should be helped. It will also benefit Russia since they hold presidential elections too, why not help Syrians have their own? I only picture God blessing Russians for helping out their fellow Syrians for a more equal government.. perhaps with a sort-of baby boom of freedom-loving Syrians and Russians.
read a little ancient middle eastern history, this crap goes back to when the first civilizations started on the borders of iraq and iran....these tribes will never be at peace with each other, its bred into them, and handed down thru the koran...giving the rebels a few bullets will only prolong their agony....and if we get involved it will prolong our agony....
You can thank Russia and China for this situation. The US played it correctly. We cannot single-handedly go in to support every rebellion anywhere in the world. The only people who believe that are the coinservative morons who put us into Iran in the first place, wasting the largest surplus in history and nearly bankrupting the country.
You mean Iraq.
It doesn't matter if we help them ,or we don't, they will still hate us. Hell the Kuwaitishate us and we liberated their ass. Muslim countries only like us when they need us ,after we save their ass they turn their hatred towards us, every freaking time. Once these rebels take over ,it will be lights out for the Christians there, just like in Iraq, Egypt, Libya, etc , etc, etc...
That's hilarious. Yeah we liberated the Kuwaities alright, liberated their oil fields and control of their economy right into the hands of the IMF, the Federal Reserve Bank, the Bilderbergs and the Rothschilds. If that is what you call liberation I can see why they hate us.
GUN control, Syrian style! where do they get full auto AK 47's with full gun control, I guess the founding fathers understood what it means to defend yourself from a totalitarian government!!!! that is why the lefties want to get rid of the 2nd amendment!!! i guess these auto AK 47s are used for hinting, and are similar to muskets???? and they dearly want MORE weapons!!! why oh why do you think Obama is gun control freak!
So when they say Al-Qaeda, are they speaking of the intelligence asset that was developed by the Carter administration to work closely with the CIA and other covert US paramilitary organizations in an attempt to usurp the Ayatollah Khomeini? Or is this a different organization than that one?
No, they are talking about the primary military arm of the Muslim Brotherhood but thanks for the laugh you ignorant blathering half-wit!!
Man, you leftist bottom feeders are so dumb it is SCARY!!!
Yes, like I said, the same organization that the Carter administration created, out of a radical Muslim group, with promises of political and economic control in that region, to overthrow Khomeini after he deposed the Shah. Unfortunately for us, our government lied to them and now they have turned on us, just as well as the rest of the Middle East, because of our government's deceit, divisiveness and greed. I love your simple-minded assumptions about my individual character and how you think it relates to the truth I disseminate here. It just shows me what a small-minded, easily led moron you are. Keep listening to the corporate and bank owned media and, oh yeah, Sieg Heil you effing idiot.
Good job America. You're turning yet another country into a potential terrorist hotzone. Either help the syrians now or have another war on terror in another country. Letting evil people(Assad)do what they want only makes things worse.
Yeah its America's fault that most of the world's violence right now can be traced to Islam. It is America's fault that some of us were stupid enough to vote for Obama and his ineptitude has allowed Al-Queda to gain power while he bleats about has been Bin Laden being killed.
America has nothing to do with the Muslim vs Muslim conflicts...these conflicts have been going on long before there even was an America....Islam creates these conflicts..
Oh that's alright, after every country over there has a new leader things will settle down for 20 years. When the leader needs to be replaced they'll do it all over again. Kinda like us, only we do it every 4 years.
Since when has Syria not been a supporter of Islamic terrorist groups?
I said this from long ago: Syrian 'rebels' and Arab-Spring rebels are jihadi hooligans, no different from al-quaeda. Now, Israel is worried that Syrian chemical weapons will fall into the hands of jihadis like al-quaeda and are preparing to send 30,000 troops into Syria. This is not a 'rebellion' for independence, but a disguised attempt to surround Israel with new-found terror. And, Husein Obama, the Muslim, and Hillary Clinton have helped these terrorists achieve their goals.
Soon, we'll be sending shiploads of troops and spend trillions of dollars fighting these same jihadists that we are helping now.
Must have been yesterday, you don't have enough forthought to think that far ahead.
What a mess. Assad staying in power is unacceptable. The rebels winning with the help of Al Qaida is unacceptable. There are no rules. The Arab League needs to step in with some authority but they won't; they are as tribal as the rest of the Middle East.
Partitioning the country along tribal lines is no solution. US intervention should not be an option. Lebanon will be no help. The Israeli's can't step in without starting a hugely wider conflict. The Turks can't step in on their own. Jordan pretends the rest of the Middle East doesn't exist. The Egyptians with their new president are likely to use any excuse they can get to go after Israel. Iran is just looking for an excuse to step in. Iraq can't even take care of itself.
Russia and China will block anything that Great Debating Society known as the UN will try to do. Even though bringing an end to this mess would benefit everyone.
Perhaps...just maybe...other countries, including the US (but in a real partnership, not one in which we carry most of the load), should simply make sure this situation stays within Syria's borders. Patrol the borders of Syria...contain the conflict. Let them fight it out inside their country and then see what's left. And if what's left is worth helping in some way.
Send bullets already, the Iraqis don't need them and the Afghans are using them against our troops, AK bullets wouldn't be too expensive and it would boost the secularists back in our direction. Screw the election, if Romney wins we'll be getting all the AK rounds we want, except they'll be sent to us by being fired by Iranian soldiers.
The unquestionable answer is YES. Why do you think they are fighting the government. It happened in Lybia. Will eventually happen in Syria. Controlling the country means controlling the wealth...
Richard Engel seems to be a little slow on the uptake. Since there have been numerous reports of mercenaries involved with the Syrian rebels ( I have even seen a videoed clip of a Libyan group, which they proudly proclaimed - who I am sure were not present for the fun ), including reports from independent journalists ( more than 9 months old ) in Turkey regarding flights into a military base near Incilic bringing Libyan weapons and mercs, one should hardly be surprised. Add in Saudi money and you have a home run. Surprise surprise - mercenaries do not fight for belief, they fight for money, and whoever is prepared to pay them most gets their allegiance. Since the Saudis still probably bankrole Al Quaeda, the only person apparently surprised is Richard Engel.
This is the nail on the coffin of the U.N., they are unable to stop and/or unwilling to help a 1.5 year rebellion and sit by while terrorists take over instead. What's the point on having a global counsel such as United Nations? What's united about it, other than inactivity? You can't have a half capitalist and half communist group try to come to any agreement about world crisis...the USA was smart enough to stay out of it as least.
Certainly, and specifically given that the US intervention in Libya has (a) created a Libya more amenable to extremists, and secondly (b) exported into Mali the extreme Tauregs who probably for all intents and purposes are Al Quaeda ( having taken over areas in Mali ). The appeal of this bit of 'journalism' would be seemingly to drive international support of the rebels thus preventing Al Quaeda takeover. Yet as just stated the previous example of that created a disaster for some areas around Libya, and to take that further Afghanistan is going to be Taliban again in all likelyhood. In truth as we now know we are involved in supporting the rebels - so in fact we are probably once again installing Al Quaeda somewhere else as an unintended consequence of breathtakingly inept and short sighted foreign policy.
What a joke engle is ! AL Qaida has been fighting with the rebels from the start-since March 2011 ! The rebels have enough weapons already ! If the USA cared about Syrians, then it would have helped it regain the Golan Heights from Israel and the Sanjak of Alexandretta from Turkey ! Assad has done an outstanding job keeping all groups united until Saudi Arabia, Qatar, USA, and Turkey armed and attacked Syria with their foreign fighters ! All they want for Syria is ethnic cleansing so Hillary can dance with satan and drink the Christians blood ! It is a shame that only Iran, Russia , and China has given it any support ! So much for democracy in the west !!!!
Let the Al-Quaeda come out of their hidding places to fight the Syrians. When the Al-Quaeda are broke and exhausted, someone(s) will go in and finish them out from both ends at the Syrian battle fields and their home.
I wonder at what stage, the middle east wakes up? China, US, Russia and Europe countries are having a ball. Selling arms this way and that way to them. Using their soil for training exercise. While China,US,Russia and Europe are global trading friends. Each one having companies located in these four major countries.
At what stage will the Muslim people say: We don't want to shot each other anymore. Until than, the middle east will remain a total mess.
From your Peanut Factory with such a thought of looking at it in a different way.
Keep watching the videos that come out of Syria...you make notice all the weapons are of Chinese and Russian manufacture...
the idea that you will keep jihad's and other Muslim fanatics out of this Syria war is absurd from the start. we are the hated ones (USA, the great Satan). we are seen as great allies to Israel and that is about all that needs to be said. if we help we will still be hated. i still think we should give them laws rockets and stinger missiles in very modest amounts and that's it. in the end we will still be hated. of the islamic countries we have assisted, you don't see Iraq, Kuwait or Libya having a 'lets celebrate America day,' and you never will.