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Gregorio Borgia / AP
Clouds pass over St. Peter's square at the Vatican on Monday.
ROME – It doesn't get more symbolic than this: dark clouds hung over the Vatican on Monday morning after months of glorious sunshine, just as its spokesman announced the outcome of an investigation into one of the biggest conspiracies to emerge from the Holy See in years.
As explained in a 35-page document issued by the Vatican, a judge charged Pope Benedict XVI's former butler with "aggravated theft" for allegedly stealing and leaking private documents from the pope's apartment to the Italian media.
Paolo Gabriele must now stand trial in one of the biggest conspiracies to hit the Vatican in years.
The documents purporting to contain damaging details of alleged corruption and power struggles among the Church's hierarchy provide a rare peek through the keyhole of the secretive Vatican medieval walls.
'Vatileaks'
The scandal, branded "Vatileaks," started in January after Italian journalist Gianluigi Nuzzi revealed for the first time one of the documents in his television program, "The Untouchables," on the Italian channel La7.
Alessandro Bianchi / Reuters file
The Pope's butler, Paolo Gabriele, bottom left, arrives with Pope Benedict XVI at St. Peter's Square in the Vatican in a file photo from May 23, 2012.
In a private letter sent by Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano to his superiors, including the pope, he appeared to expose a web of corruption, nepotism and cronyism in the awarding of contracts for the maintenance of the tiny city-state's gardens, buildings, streets, museums and other infrastructure. Vigano complained that much of the work was often given to the same companies at double the cost when compared to what they charged outside the Vatican.
Among the many expenses a medieval state like the Vatican, the cradle of Christianity, needs to maintain its splendor, perhaps the most typical one is the cost of the nativity scene, which adorns St. Peter's Square every Christmas. In one of the leaked letters, Vigano complained that it cost almost $700,000 to put on in 2009, and managed to almost halve its cost the following year.
Despite the cost-saving efforts by Vigano, the archbishop was soon deposed from his post and sent to Washington as a "Nuncio," the Vatican equivalent of an ambassador. What was meant to be a promotion, Vigano denounced as a smear campaign against him by members of the Vatican hierarchy, whom he believed were unhappy about his push for transparency in the church's complex financial structure.
"Holy Father, my transfer right now would provoke much disorientation and discouragement in those who have believed it was possible to clean up so many situations of corruption and abuse of power that have been rooted in the management of so many departments," Vigano wrote to the pope on March 27, 2011, according to the leaked documents.
After the program aired, the hunt for the whistleblower – colorfully called the "crow" (Italian for mole) – was on. In Nuzzi's book he or she was called, almost heretically, "Mary."
The Vatican gendarmerie, the Holy See's "police" force, quickly began searching for clues.
Then, as if out of an Agatha Christie novel, the predictable outcome: the butler did it.
The butler did it
On May 23, the Vatican gendarmerie arrested Paolo Gabriele, the pope's personal assistant. He was one of the very few people to have access to the pope's private chambers and was caught red-handed when a stash of secret documents was found in his apartment.
Andreas Solaro / AFP - Getty Images
Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi speaks at a press conference about the charges on Monday.
In his possession, authorities also found some presents sent to the pope, including a check for a $130,000, a gold nugget and a rare 16th century book. He was held for 53 days in a Vatican cell before being put under house arrest.
The decision to order Gabriele to stand trial on charges of aggravated theft for leaking the documents was widely expected. But if the butler did it, was he part of a wider whistleblowing operation aimed at shaking up the Vatican hierarchy as some have suggested?
On Monday, the Vatican revealed that at least one other arrest was made during the investigation. Claudio Sciarpelletti, a layman Vatican IT employee, was also ordered to stand trial, but on lesser charges of aiding and abetting a crime.
Big crime in a small country
Officially, the Vatican is one of the countries with the highest crime rate per capita in the world. The surprising statistic is skewed by the fact that, despite there being only 800 residents, there's an abundance of purse-snatchers from abroad (meaning Italy, which is just across the fences of St. Peter's Square). Its sole judge spends a lot of time dealing with mostly petty crimes.
The last serious crime the court had to deal with was the 1998 murder of a Swiss Guard commander and his wife by a young Swiss Guard, who later took his own life.
The trial for the conspiracy that has shaken the Vatican at the top of its hierarchy will not take place until October at the earliest. If Gabriele is found guilty, he risks up to six years in prison.
Unless, of course, the pope can find it in his heart to forgive - and pardon him.
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Leave a Comment:
Cleaning up corupt finances in the Vatican??? Didn't John Paul I already try that? Look where it got him!
So, they call law enforcement and have a trial when theft is involved-but not child molestation.
It has taken 40 years for people not to assume the butler did it and then this jack-wagon comes along.
Pedophilia anyone??? WOW. These are God's leaders on Earth? NOT!!!
If the butler was Catholic he could just say that he was sorry, recite a few Hail Mary's and Our Father's, all would be forgiven and life would just move on.
Maybe they should go after the pope for robbing the people with all his bs, lies, and covering up all the pedophilia that breeds within the Catholic churches.
George Carlin - Religion is bs
50 reasons why religion is B.S.
I say:
It was the butler
In the library
With: his unlimited Vatican access.
The article had at least some comical elements
"There's an abundance of purse snatchers from abroad" meaning Italy which is across the fence from St. Peter's Square.
Where's the forgiveness??
Hummmmmmmmmmm Goes to show ya ........!
One mans butler/ terrorist/ Thief... is another mans Whistle-blower/ Freedom Fighter/ Reveler of Truth!
It's all in the perspective .......... and everybody has his own ..
this story is about like kim k. get'n laid again...heard it-heard it-heard it...
You people on the pedophilia bandwagon need to realize this happens in all churches, countless schools, UNIVERSITIES, wherever a pedophile can get his or her hands on children. This article was NOT about pedophilia so stay on the dam topic. This never happened in our church and 2 of my brothers were alter boys growing up. And, if you plan to commit a sin and then go confess it, it doesn't work that way. Grow up. Most of you have no idea what you are commenting about. Just headlines in the news or what you heard in passing. Your complete ignorance is showing.
Yes, but only in the church is it standard practice to send the perpetrators to a new location rather than taken in by the police and sent to prison.
Says who? When I was dragged to church that's exactly how it went. Go into the little dark closet, tell the shadow on the other side what you did, perform your penance and all is well again.
arguesforsport, that's exactly the way I remember confession too. Blah, blah, blah....five hail Marys and you're sinless.
arguesforsport: Says the doctrine of the church since you slept through CCD. If you plan to sin, willfully, and carry out that sin thinking all is well, then confess it (lying), all is not well. Same goes for you Robert Duckworth. You are not heartily sorry if you planned it thinking confession would get you out of it.
The pedophilia of Sandusky was covered up for years, yes he's been prosecuted, there was a school district in CA where the cover up went on for years, It's not just the Catholic Church that covers it up. There are priests out there who have been prosecuted. Not all that should have been. I'm not defending that. But, mention Catholic to most people, and the first thing out of their mouths is pedophilia. I feel terrible for any child who was forced into that, and I think the responsible parties should be sent to prison.
The worst of this is that an investigation has been launched for showing the World the rcc's dirt. The dirt itself will not be investigated. Kind of what is happening right now with Julian Assange. He is being persecuted for showing the World the dirt being performed in our names by our 'elected' government (more like seated government because the choice has already been made for us in the offering). Doesn't it make you wonder about the elite spoon feeding the 99% their hypocritical conscience for us to assimilate. DO what I tell you not what I do? No wonder evil is predominant. Between church and government we do not really know which is worse as faith becomes lost......
The butthole did it but which one.
Speaking of Gawd:
Why doesn’t Jesus make an Appearance at Half Time of da Super Bowl? Wouldn’t that answer a lot of Questions and make a lot of Ministers, Priest’ etc. real Nervous.
Based on the "Vatican" Actions, it’s ok to be a “Pedophile” as long as you are Raping little boys. However being Gay is a Sin, Unacceptable and will not be Tolerated!
Why does da Pope surround himself with Armed Body Guards? Doesn’t he have Faith in Gawd?
Remember Folks….Da more you Donate Da more your Prayers are Answered.
Why do People become Really Religious when they get Really Old or go to Prison?
Why doesn't these Republican TeaBilly Conservative Religious Freaks demand to see a Birth Certificate for Gawd?
The Biggest Threat to all Religions…………………..Da Truth!
There seem to be much you don't understand, or maybe you do but refuse to believe.
Remember the pope is only human and flawed too, just like the rest of us. He and everybody else will have to answer to the good Lord one day, and God will have the final judgement on all of us.
Justdafacts... Enlish and Grammar please!
Acknowledging the pope's flawed humanity, what makes him so special to live in the secretive, ring kissing, lap of luxury, while many of the believers can barely find food for themselves.
For believers, the pope will be judged, along with his followers who condone it. It's just too bad the vatican's wealth cannot be put to good use in the present.
"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."
Matthew 19:24
Says you. I don't much appreciate people that try to speak for everyone.
BTW, which God are you referring to? Zeus? Hades? Poseidon?
If a Christian God is claimed to be real, so can all of the ones I listed be as well.
There are so many gods. Which is the right one, if one even exists?
That last sentence is rhetorical since I know you will say your religion is the only right one.
Just because there are a lot of religions, it doesn't mean one can't be right. Maybe it would to be worth your while to figure out who has it right, and who doesn't.
"The Pope is only human and flawed" ....but Jesus taught us to be perfect like our Father in heaven is perfect and of all humans who is called "Holy Father" he is far from holy and didn't Jesus say to "call no man father."
The TRUE teachings of Jesus are hidden in the Vatican somewhere also and this is the ultimate travesty done to the world and God.
Karl Heinz Deschner (Dr of philospy, repeated award winning author) a former Catholic
who exposed all the false doctrines of the Catholic Church and wrote many books on the topic was put on trial by the Church, I believe it was in 1972) because he was in defense of Jesus. Jesus' true teachings were all but distorted or left out, etc.....
Among them, the teachings of pre-existing souls, vegetarianism (You should not kill meant animals also), pacifism etc......Instead Christians are seen as murderous, vengeful, and as animal torturers.
The Church has the fullness of the truth, but other faith traditions contain truths as well. Catholics have historically incorporated truths found in other traditions and disciplines, such as philosophy and science. The Greek gods were limited, imperfect, anthropomorphic, universe-bound deities...quite far from the Christian conception of God. Popes are human...they make mistakes and can potentially miss out on heaven.
August: Were any of Karl Heinz Deschner's books translated to English?
"Jesus taught us to be perfect..."
Yes, that is the goal, but we all fall short at one time or another.
"...didn't Jesus say to call no man father.""
A fundamentalist, literal reading of this scripture quote is skewed. Men are called fathers throughout the New Testament. See 1 Cor. 4:14-15 for an example. Google search "call no man father catholic answers" for a more in-depth explanation.
"The TRUE teachings of Jesus are hidden in the Vatican..."
Seems like a strange claim, given that Rome was not the only center of Christianity in the Early Church and Christian writings circulated all over the East and West at the time.
It all depends on where you were born (what is the popular "truth" of the land) and what you were brainwashed into believing as a child.
"It all depends on where you were born (what is the popular "truth" of the land) and what you were brainwashed into believing as a child."
Culture and upbringing have a role in this of course, but the seeker of real truth will look beyond his own prejudices and explore who God is with an open heart and mind. One can't rely on the media to accurately and thoroughly portray what the Catholic Church (or any other faith tradition) believes in this regard. It is also a false notion that faith and reason (or religion and science) contradict each other.
Debi,
Unfortunately none of Dr. Deschner's works have been translated into English yet.
Even on YouTube there aren't English subtitles.
A good Catholic friend introduced me to him and some interesting websites. Google
Jerome the Falsifier of the Bible and I believe you'll find some of Deschner's thoughts translated into English or try The Word-The Universal Spirit. I haven't gone there in a while. Good Luck.
Merek,
Jerome was commissioned by Damasus to produce a Latin Bible but because Romans were used to repetitious readings of text he didn't dare change them so he had to change scripture in 3,500 places.
Jerome wrote the pope:"...even on the showing of those who revile us, readings at variance with the early copies cannot be right. For if we are to pin our faith on the Latin texts, it is for our opponent to tell us which, for there are almost as many forms of texts, as there are copies." While Jerome said it was difficult to "glean the truth" the Church claims the Vulgate is "without error."
Jerome had a genuine gospel called the Hebrew or Ebionite gospel in which the teachings of Jesus to the apostles were written. The author wrote it in Aramaic but encoded it with Hebrew letters.
Jerome was aware this was the only original gospel but to accept it "was equivalent to
reading the death sentence of the established Church."
The Gospel according to the Hebrews was the only one accepted for 4 centuries by the Jewish Christians, Nazarene and Ebionites. Origen often used this Gospel but the Church declared him a heretic.
Perhaps this gospel according to the Hebrews is locked up somewhere.
A Gospel that depicted God and Jesus the Christ as pacifists, all loving, and by all-loving meaning animals also. Jesus also loved and respected women. It is Paul's cultural beliefs and upbringing that he still condoned the military, eating meat, and denigrating women.
Paul never met Jesus and we (the religious community) still quote him as being words that were words from Jesus which they were not.
Jerome was a vegetarian as were all the original Christians because this is what Jesus taught.
I'm grateful for my Catholic friend who introduced me to the above websites. I was raised Lutheran but in the 1980's when we were in dire straights we were threatened that we would not have Christian burials if we didn't tithe or attend church regularly.
That did it for me and I knew then ........what to do.
August, thanks for your response.
The gospels that you mention were universally rejected by the orthodox early Christians (from whom we have our only source of what they said) and don't survive today. I question how one can base his faith on documents that no longer even exist. Furthermore, scholars don't know a whole lot about them, and what little knowledge we have comes from quotations by those same Christians who believed them not to be genuine. How do you find it possible to call them genuine except through extreme speculation?
I'm not certain how Jerome fits in here or what evidence you have that Jerome felt he had to hide the non-canonical gospel. When the Catholic Church adopted the Vulgate as its 'official' biblical text at the Council of Trent, it didn't claim that it was without transmission/translation errors or that earlier versions in the original languages were to be ignored. Quite the contrary.
Certainly it is reasonable that there were many vegetarians among early Christians. However, I don't know of any documented evidence that "all" of them were. The canonical Gospels themselves claim that Jesus and the disciples ate fish.
Paul did meet Jesus. He had at least one encounter with the resurrected Christ (in Acts and 1 Corinthians).
Clearly you don't accept the traditional Christian Canon (it seems you have eliminated the Pauline epistles and added non-canonical Gospels). I'm curious how you arrived at this conclusion. How do you know which early Christian writings are true and which ones aren't? Do you believe the Holy Spirit abandoned the Church during this time? Do you belong to a church that believes similarly to you?
Thank you August and Merek for the references and information in your discussion. There are endless books to try to dig up for further study and answers. Not saying all or any of the references to be found are true, but some do offer valuable insights.
@August and Merek - it is refreshing to see an intelligent discourse on any topic from MSNBC from two people with differing views. Thank you both for having an open discussion without having to resort to trashing each other's viewpoints and calling each other names.
Sarah Palin can see the Vatican from her Kitchen Window. Oh look Todd, there goes a bunch of wheel barrows full of money thru the back door again. You Bet Cha….Fer Sure.
What is da Criteria to become Pope?
Must be over 80 years Old.
Have da Posture of Quazi Motto.
Speak in Pig Latin and Mumble a lot.
Shuffle your Feet when you walk.
Have a constant Dazed, Confused, Blanks Stare.
And have a young boy under each arm.
Don't forget being a Hitler Youth doesn't hurt.
And Have a young boy under your Holy garments.
And be a dead ringer for Emperor Palpatine.
Here we go again with the strawman and the red herring story. In the meantime they are still raping young boys. Now you see it now you don't.
Panhead watch it. You too "intellect". Remember Jerry Sandusky??? Anybody? Mention the Catholic Church, and not many remember the works of Mother Theresa, countless charities that help the poor, but NON CATHOLICS can only bring up the negative. It's in every organization where children are because that's where pedophiles put themselves. The priests who did these acts hearts were not in the priesthood to begin with so I don't even consider them as part of the church. They never were.
Good try, PBgeorgia, but it is the Vatican that has been protecting these pedophiles for centeruies for what cause? To protect the Holy See, to protect their coffers or just to protect the standing of the Church? Look what happened to Penn State once the light of day came to bare? Enough of the denial with you do not consider them to be a part of the priesthood.
It is the good old boy school that has been protecting these pedophiles while the faithful have been in denial. If you were not in denial then you would uprise and demand a purge of all priests who have been accused and tried to be excommunicated from the Church in public and ask for forgiveness from those who have been violated past and present. No instead the faithful carry themselves around like sheep waiting for the slaughter and claim innocence from the truth or what is that about the Catholic religion, omission?
Yo … Penn State, Syracuse and California School Administrators ...Does this sound Familiar? You Bet Cha….Fer Sure.
For years the Vatican has been running its fingers thru piles of Gold Coins and just busting out laughing while their “ Pedophile Priests “ were abusing kids. They knew it and now that they got caught with their pants on da ground, and now it's all about “Damage Control” and Protect the $$$$$$$$$$$. Any questions?
Yo Attention all Republican and TeaBilly Conservatives:
Why don't we start "Taxing" all of da Church’s? We both know it has become nothing more than a Corrupt Political Business.
You BetCha…..Fer Sure.
Sincerely,
Sarah P.
da, da, da, you betcha... fer sure... can you form a complete grammatically correct sentence jstdafacts? Do you know what a fact is?
Yeah lets just hide the facts about the corruption so no one knows what a D-Bag of an Organization you are. Now the Pope has to find forgiveness so he don't spend 6 years in prison for bringing out the truth. I say free the Butler and lets open the archives and see what madness, tyranny, bigotry, murder under this Organization. Time for people to stand up and be counted instead of herded like sheep.
Pope: "Cover this mess up. Send the leakers to prison."
The butler did it with the candlestick in the observatory.
"The butler did it" used to be the solution to crimes in the old movies I believe. That reminds me of when I was a kid, someone stole all the outboard motors down at the river in my small town. We had no local police, so the county sheriff came up and said "It must have been those n's that were camped out here last nite." My dad had to tell them there weren't any N's camped out here and the white people who told them there were had probably made their escape in the big yellow school bus they camped out in across the state line. I was wondering at the time why the sheriff didn't blame it on the butler, I mean if it wasn't the N's, it must be the butler.
They should bulldoze the entire site. The Vatican is place of political abuse and murder, going back centuries. Nothing good comes out of there. NOTHING!
They should give the whistleblower a Medal.
Skeletons always find their way out of closets.
Closets? Every time the pope opens his mouth, a bone falls out of it.
um... or a bone jumps into his mouth... on accident, right? "I had no idea that little boy was standing there when i opened my mouth"
almost as believeable as "the kid backed up into me"
The Vatican is the "cradle of Christianity"? Jesus never showed up anywhere on the boot. Maybe the Vatican has the original manger. The butler did it is just more evidence that the Catholic church is far more concerned about its image than about truth or justice. When will they ever learn? When will they ev-er learn?
Martin Luther wrote in his letter to Pope Leo that the Catholic Church at one time had been the gate to heaven but was now (Luther's time) the "mouth of hell," because the church leadership was misleading innocent people. No pope likes a whistle blower. Corruption should be exposed for what it is, even if it happens in any church or religious organization. I can only imagine that the butler was trying to do the right thing. And a bunch of old men didn't like it. People need to wake up and use their money for better things.
What's next, the Vatican pardoning Jerry Sandusky?
Why? Based off of the thousands of pedophilia claims and the shuffling of clergy to hide them, one would think there would be nothing to pardon him for in the eyes of the Vatican.
Just business as usual. Besides, a large donation and all will be forgiven.
What a stupid article!
Way to funny. Crime and corruptness in the almighty holier-than-thou-repent- and gve me 20 hails Catholic church?
Once again the media is going to find anything to hold against the Catholic Church.
The church should be interested in truth. Why sweep corruption under the carpet? This is the story, not putting down the church. Yea, truth sometimes hurts.
The Church is not interested in telling folks "The Truth" They want the billions to be rolling in and at the same time impose their "Wills" upon everyone that will listen and believe. No kidding the truth hurts. If you run a business your never going to tell everyone the truth especially if it hurts your business like whats hidden "Down deep in the Archives of the Church" This is not a Sandy Duncan World "Everything is perfect and wonderful" WE ALL live in. It's a World of "Lies and Cheats", "How To make a Fast Buck" "Do On To Others Before They Do It To You" "I'll Save Your Soul". We know this. This Church ALWAYS hides the Truth until they are caught then they say "OMG". Well guess what? They at the same time have swept the truth "Under The Rug" History tells US of their Holiness over these past 2,000 years. Rest of it still lies down in the Archives which the Butler brought out to show the World. If you turn a Blind Eye then you are no better then the people who caused it.
The media doesn't need to find anything on the Vatican.
They have skeletons trying to escape while the Catholic church is scrambling to bury them again.
For decades, if not centuries they have hid clergy from the law that did unspeakable things to children. Even if that is the only wrong they have done, which we know it isn't, that would be enough to hound them for all eternity.
Im 100% sure the catholic church is the scariest place on earth.........and all the psychos that believe its great are pretty scary too.....what is with catholics and rape, murders and cover-ups?? What a sick and disgusting bunch..
If the Pope was the CEO of a corporation he'd be fired by now with all the shenanigans that have taken place. How dare they put Gabriele on trial when it's the Pope who needs to come clean.
Oh, but the evil church makes it so darn easy.
Because with an organization that large, people are bound to find a scandal or two. And because, when that organization takes a moral stand, people are eager to cast stones. It's too bad that critics throw out the baby with the bathwater, seeing the Church only for its faults and pretending they negate all its truth claims, all while there is tremendous good being done by the Church as well. It just doesn't make as good a news story to report on that.
Merek:
What "good" has the vatican performed and what "truths" have been negated?
I'm saying that, though the witness of Christians is tarnished by scandal, the truth of the Gospel is not proved wrong by it. Christ himself predicted that there would be goats among the sheep, tares among the wheat, so it's nothing new that there are bad people and actions among the faithful. One must look to the Church's saints to see what it strives for. The Vatican does good by perpetuating Jesus' teachings in the world and by administrating the world's largest charitable organization. Just like with anything and anyone else, one must sometimes look deeper to get the whole picture.
Again, Thomas of Aquinas the doctor of the Church, canonized I believe in 1667, Patron saint of Education, 1880 wrote this about women:
"women...monsters of nature, imperfect, mutilated misbegotten men..."and he went on and on about their bodies, etc..
In the 1960's the 2nd Vatican commended Thomas of Aquinas as teacher. He taught animals have no souls and
it's no sin to use (torture) animals for man.
He taught that heretics should be put to death, that it is justified. The Inquisition, witch hunts, unspeakable tortures were justified. This was "progress" Pope Ratzinger said. He also on TV suggested that the Internet should be given a "soul."
So, from the 13th to the 18th century 10 million dead and countless tortured.
Thomas of Aquinas wrote that saints should" rejoice over the damned" and went so far as to describe hell and torture.
Who is the teacher? Jesus or Thomas of Aquinas!
Where are Jesus' teachings.
Jews were also considered heretics and killed as were Jewish Christians who didn't commit to the Church or stayed with Judaism.
The Sermon on the Mount was considered by the Church to be Utopic so one must conclude does the church really believe in God, and His son Jesus, the Christ.
Thanks August for your points, but I think they leave out the whole truth.
Aquinas does argue in ST I, Q 92, Art 1 that women are "defective" (the Latin doesn't have the negative connotation that this English word has), but from a highly abstract philosophical viewpoint based on Aristotelian metaphysics. He goes on to state that God created women good and not below the dignity of man, and, of course, Aquinas had a tremendous devotion to Mary, a woman.
Aquinas argues in ST II-II, Q 64, Art 1 that the souls of plants and animals are qualitatively different and lower than those of men, that they are not rational and therefore cannot be "murdered" in the same way a human person can. He is in no way saying that animal torture is acceptable. Speaking of which, the Catholic Catechism 2418 states, "It is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly..."
Aquinas lived in a thoroughly Catholic society, so at that time the secular state had the power to execute intransigent heretics. For Aquinas and the Church, it was not obvious that this was unjust, since the salvation of the soul (both of the heretic and the citizens potentially being influenced by him) was considered a higher good than the continuation of the heretic's temporal life. Thus, the danger a heretic posed to himself and society by spreading falsehoods and jeopardizing the souls of others could be deemed enough to warrant excommunication and even capital punishment. They understood that one has the right to do good, but not the right to do evil. This principle, that orthodoxy and the eternal salvation of a person is most important, is still true today. However, because of our pluralistic society, the evolution of secular law, and our developed understanding of Christian charity, execution of heretics cannot be justified today. See ST II, Q 11, Art 3.
Aquinas says in ST Supplement, Q 94, Art 1 that the saints in heaven rejoice over the damned, not because those people are suffering, but because of thankfulness and joy in being delivered from that suffering.
In general, I think it's fair to say that Aquinas was sometimes limited in his exploration of doctrine because of the incomplete development of philosophy and physical science. Throwing out the entire Summa Theologica because of a few inaccuracies is like trashing Newton's physics because he didn't yet know about quantum mechanics.
Besides, it should be said that, although Aquinas' Summa Theologica was an amazing gift to the Church, at no time has it been claimed to be infallible and without error. In a work of its size and depth, it's not hard to find a few quibbles. He is not a saint because he was an intelligent, philosophical guy who wrote flawless volumes of theology, but because he epitomized the spirit of "faith seeking understanding" and did so with great love for God and his fellow man.
Pope Benedict (Ratzinger) did not mean a "literal soul" in regards to the internet. I believe he was asking people to maintain a spirit of love and humanity when communicating via the internet. As we can see from many comments on this board, when human communication is not face to face, people can be quite unfair, intolerant, and cruel.
Jesus' teachings have been kept alive in the scriptures and traditions of the Church. While your criticisms of the Church highlight negative perceptions and actions of the Church, I believe they are outweighed by the truth of the Church's doctrines when properly understood and the charity of its faithful.
Christian persecution of the Jews seems to have been primarily an isolated phenomenon in the Middle Ages. To say that Jewish persecution was standard practice or part of the essential doctrine of historical Christianity is irresponsible and inaccurate. Regardless, like the last wave of priest transgressions, its historical occurrence is extremely regrettable. The Church condemns it as reprehensible. Read Nostra Aetate paragraph 4 for a little more on the proper Catholic-Jewish relationship.
I'm afraid I don't understand your last point about the Sermon on the Mount.
The Eyes Closed and empty minded folks that so nicely state their is always a few rotten apples in the group. I have to LOL at that because this Church and their practices for the past 2,000 years have murdered folks, punished, tortured, stated ONLY THEY were the true believers and the world was flat and ALL the Universe revolved around the Earth. They have swept their Past and criminal behavior under so many rugs that you can't even walk on them. They lie, cheat, hide, payoff and continue to go on as these things never happened. If you wish to empty your pockets and hearts to this Organization so be it. I for one can read between the lines and Church rhetoric and storied History. I will PASS!
Alan, Christ Himself predicted that there would be bad apples in the bunch. See the 'Parable of the Wheat and Tares.' From your claim one would think that all the Church did in its history is oppress others and repress its own, as well as impede science and reason. That before the Church popped up, things were all wonderful and rosy for the poor and the powerless in the world, those same people who voluntarily flocked to the Church. You seem to forget the millions of poor that are helped, sick that are cared for, hungry that are fed, heartbroken that are comforted both today and in history by this world's largest charitable organization. Not to mention its role as preserver of the most significant ancient philosophical and literary works, patron of some of the greatest art and learning the world has seen, seedbed of modern mathematics and science (see Copernicus, Mendel, Pascal, Lemaitre, etc.), and champion of social justice and human rights. Please, let's be a little more fair and balanced. :)
I see. So feed one person who promises obedience and burn, imprison another that states in Science which is true that the Church swore was the truth and NOTHING can be further from the truth. Blame the butler for bringing out more skeletons out of the closet that the Church refuses to tell the World. I like those words "The Truth Shall Set You Free" even though it really has no meaning because it's just a ruse. The Church has NO RIGHT to impose their Ironfisted rule upon folks for more then a thousand years. Now we are in the Pedophile Era which probably has gone on forever and no one dared to condemn The Church all this time until now because people are standing up to it.
Galileo discoveries were considered to be outrageous and people thought that he was lying. Lots of people back then still believed that gods had power over the sky. The Church did what to him? Yeah I thought so. I don't know about you but when someone preaches that "This is the Only Truth you should believe" and I find out later they were only trying to impose their will upon me for their own purposes with nothing but their own personnel agendas of Power and Greed. Maybe we should label it "The Good, The Bad and the Ugly" because it sure isn't The Garden of Eden they promised. They have used whatever means to control Humans under whatever the World would let them. Now it's the 21st Century and finally folks are waking up. No more burning at the stake, no more torture, no more children being used by them and hopefully they will come to REASON.
Plus we will work on Copernicus since you mentioned him. The first notable to move against Copernicanism was the Magister of the Holy Palace (i.e., the Catholic Church's chief censor), Dominican Bartolomeo Spina, who "expressed a desire to stamp out the Copernican doctrine."[90][91] But with Spina's death in 1546, his cause fell to his friend, the well known theologian-astronomer, the Dominican Giovanni Maria Tolosani of the Convent of St. Mark in Florence. Tolosani had written a treatise on reforming the calendar (in which astronomy would play a large role), and had attended the Fifth Lateran Council to discuss the matter. He had obtained a copy of De Revolutionibus in 1544. His denouncement of Copernicanism appeared in an appendix to his work entitled On the Truth of Sacred Scripture. There is a lot more if you care to read it. The Church did everything they could to dispel others of actual facts in nature or proven science. With an Iron Fist if needed. Crusty Old Men with outdated and untrue facts to control YOU and I. No thanks.
Alan, thanks for your feedback. In the world we live in today, no one is forced under the Church's rule. As a Catholic I do submit to the 'rules' of the Church, not simply out of superstition or fear, but because they are good for me. These very same rules are the ones you are judging the Church by, and that is fine. I'm glad that you have a strong sense of compassion and justice, because that is exactly what God wants. There is no question that at various times in history Church clergy and laity have violated the very principles they purported to champion, but the important thing is that those principles haven't changed. We are all on a journey, hopefully ever towards greater truth and good. I believe the members of the Church and the Church itself are perpetually on that journey too. Thus, the principles don't change, but our understanding of and adherence to those principles do progress. I for one am glad the pedophile scandal came to light, not because it reflects badly on the Church, but because it allows those horrible elements of the Church to be purged and the violating priests an opportunity to repent. This is exactly what Christ came to do, to expose hypocrisy and sin, while still offering hope and salvation for everyone, even those who have done horrible things.
Concerning Copernicus and Galileo, it's important to realize that those two did not seek to leave the Church. They wished to show the Church and the world the truth to enhance understanding of God's creation. The reaction of the Church was not unique...the entire world at the time, secular and religious, understood cosmology in a certain way that seemed impossible to contradict. Platonic and Aristotelian natural philosophy was as important or more important in solidifying prejudices as any religious teaching. With Copernicus, there was a concern that he proclaimed his views (which I believe were published in dedication to the Church) without providing substantial evidence for them. When Galileo provided observable evidence, there was a natural backlash because it contradicted two thousand years of established thinking. Certainly Church figures made a mistake in placing Galileo under house arrest (neither he nor Copernicus were burned at the stake), and I believe Pope John Paul II has apologized for this. Nowhere in Catholic teaching does it say that Church leaders, even popes, never make mistakes. Anyway, what's important is that the conflict has been resolved and lessons learned. The Church's understanding of faith and reason (religion and science) is now highly developed and tolerant, in that the two do not contradict. Faith investigates and confirms those phenomena which are beyond the methodologies of science (quantifiable, material causes). A Catholic priest came up with the Big Bang theory, and Catholics do not see the theory of evolution as contradicting faith. How's that for progress?
The World's Most Corrupt Evil Empire
How can you say that.....you created it????
No he for gave it his father created it, for his father created him.
Just look at the pope....tell me he doesn't look like a Sith Lord.
I said it before and I will say it again...sounds like the story of Joseph (Pope being the 'Pharoah' and the butler, well, being the butler.
Waiting for a 'pardon' and lets see if the Pope has a 'dream'. Things to make you go hmmm.
No, it won't be a dream; the pardon will be written in the third letter of the children from Portugal.
Sovreignety should be stripped from the holy roman empire, a church should not have the power to stop whisstleblowers or make a profit or get rich of the blood and sweat of its members. the book and gold and check were stolen though and is deserving of punishment also... but churches should not act like a biz and make money, this organization needs to be nuetered for the protection of the poor , the feeble and young boys everywhere. jus... sayin...oh and the good news is that the documents must be introduced as evidence and under most laws would be made public by doing so....lets hope the country of the vatican has reasonable laws
And why address the pope as "Holy Father?" He's no father to anyone (at least not supposed to be), and none is holy except God.
Words that have absolutely have no basis in reality , medieval/dark ages terminology still being used. (and they call themselves mature adults / "grown-ups")
Sorry : Words that have absolutely no basis in reality.
Even grown ups like to play dress-up and make-believe.
Too bad they also like starving children, f*cking them and killing them too but that's negative thinking which has no place in the powers-that-be's fantasy in the clouds. ($$ scam)
All religion is corrupt and oppressive by it's very nature.
someone must be taking rare incidents and pretending they're generally the case again, tsk tsk.
Actually I think Caf'lics have probly fed 5 billion or more poor children over the life of the church.
Go finger your rosary beads and say 50 Hail Mary's so that you can get out of Purgatory a little faster after what you just said.
Thanks for the laugh , humor is great medicine.
chesty- the fact that you think someone will be in purgatory for speaking their mind is no longer surprising but still pretty amusing and somewhat telling... get a clue and start questioning EVERYTHING. you might be surprised at what you learn.
Of course they've fed a lot of children, mostly "protien" in the basement of the rectory.
I am not sure who is in Purgatory. The one who condemns an Organization that lies, deceitful, tortures, believed that the World was flat and the Universe revolves around it, sweeps crime under Vatican Rugs, burns folks at the stake, punishes non-believers, rapes children at their whim OR ones that turn a blind-eye to their surroundings and what the TRUTH actually is? Being of sound mind and using FACTS and knowing the difference between right and wrong you tell me? If that is to hard to understand no one can help you, period.
"Gettin' ecstatic and,
"Sorta dramatic and,
"Doing the Vatican Rag!"
Sounds like it's time for Tom Leherer to be writing some new verses to this 60's classic...