Sounds like what's happening in this country.

Just another fine example of socialism at work

Victoria - with what money would you suggest the Spanish government help these people. They are broke. They need to face their problems and come up with real solutions that create jobs so that people can pay for things themselves. Simply handing out the monopoly money won't help, it will only prolong their suffering.

The ongoing mantra: "Give us more!"

What about all the gold and silver the Spanish looted from the New World during the Age of Discovery, floated across the Atlantic, and gilded the churches?

MOMMINJ, while what the mayor is doing may represent socialism, it comes as a result of the governments and banks fascist actions. Remember Spain tried fascism once, it didn't workout to well.

I find it amazing when people speak up, pounding the superiority of "Might Makes Right, Let The Weak Die". Most people have absolutely no control over their ability to get a job. Everyone has certain skills, and those that have the jobs are usually looking for the best person for the job... who'll work the cheapest. These are young adults, college trained, some even with families, that CANNOT survive any other way.

You want your possessions to mean something? All your hard work to add up to something? That's the only reason I'd see the majority of you cry, that you think it's "not fair" that they get something for free when you have to work for it. Unless of course you take some sick pleasure in people dying, going homeless, so you can stand over them later and think about how wonderful your life is.

I honestly think America is a land built on Schadenfreude, not on "Christian Principles". Our entire culture seems derived in taking pleasure in the pain and suffering of others. I'm not talking sodomy, either, I'm talking about the stuff that ACTUALLY MATTERS, like livelihood, survival, y'know, essentials of LIVING. I also tend to notice that tunes change once your job doesn't look so secure, either. How many have you have been caught by the good ol' Government when you got sacked from a job?

Just... stop talking. Stop going on and on about Socialism, or how people are lining up for a free ride. Your hard work means something. It means you're not dependent on anyone but yourself, it means you earn everything you own. If you have to watch the police throw someone out of their foreclosed home just to get that sense of accomplishment, then there's probably something terribly wrong with you.

ThaMonkeh there's something wrong with you if you think that way. Most people are sick and tired of people gaming the system and nothing being done about it. When something tries to get done the liberals block the bill or try to call people racists and any other name under the sun. Seems to me the people with problems are the liberals. Fun fact the Democrats are actually the racist party :D

Funny. I seem to remember it being the banks and the rich people gaming the system, making it so they don't even have to pay taxes to our country, and making it so they can take you home whenever they want, however they want, and change the rules and laws however they wish. Free ride indeed. I think your anger is a little misplaced, especially given the free bailouts used for corporate golden parachutes. Yet you choose to pick fights with those suffering as much as you, not the ones laughing all the way to the bank with you, and my, and everyone else's money.

Also, please don't bring "Liberals" into this conversation. The terms for Liberal and Conservative have only divided our country, being used as a bucket term to insult others while prancing about merrily singing about how wonderful your own "party" is, when they're just as guilty for what's wrong.

ThaMonkeh

I find it amazing when people speak up, pounding the superiority of "Might Makes Right, Let The Weak Die".

I find it amazing when people speak up to take "If you can work, you should work" and twist it into "Let the weak die."

Most people have absolutely no control over their ability to get a job.

Anybody in the United States who is able to work and wants to work can find a job. It might not be the job they want.

These are young adults, college trained, some even with families, that CANNOT survive any other way.

Gee, what did young adults, college-trained or not, do in the thousands of years before there was welfare?

ThaMonkeh

There are plenty of jobs here in the states but most people don't want to work those jobs because they feel that its beneath them. Then they turn around and bitch about there being no jobs. There are jobs just people think they are entitled to earn 100k or more and work in a nice easy place. I work construction and have never had a problem finding work. Is it a job I don't like at times because it is back breaking work, but it puts food on the table and pays the bills until I can find a better job I will continue to work and earn a living. Unlike many of the people that rather get free money because they don't want to work at a Burger King or at a Target.

@MOMINNJ

Socialism? I guess you didn't see the fine work of capitalist that got most of this countries into such a big mess in the first place including ours.

Here, let's me show you how, it was and still is the work of "global banking" and "global workforces".

Global Banking - creates one of the first world wide scamming system that starts with price fixing rates in Britain and then join up with several big banks across the world include some of the major banks in the US.

Global Workforces - creates one of devastating shortage of jobs throughout most developing countries where the "job creators" able to ship most jobs to 3rd world countries for dirt cheap pay for better profits.

Place the blame where it belongs.

CuongDNguyen

Yea the blame lies with government and people that take out loans for things that they don't really need and just want to have toys to play with. That Libor scandal actually was good since the banks were loaning money to each other at a much lower rate than before hand thus making it cheaper for you to take out loans. *gasp*

sounds alot like america

Proof yet again, liberals are fascists. If things don't go your way, take to the streets and break the law.

It wasn't capitalism that flushed these countries, it was socialism. It is unpaid socialism that has buried these governments in debt, capitalism is the only way out. More socialism just digs the hole deeper, the US is a good example.

dakhaos - sorry but that is wrong. First off it was against the law. Second They raised and lowered rates depending on the circumstance to gain a better profit, end of story. In the end it was not cheaper but cost consumers more.

But otherwise I agree people were taking out loans that shouldn't have but banks were also lending to people they shouldn't. Two way street end of story. Same for our government, both sides are in the wrong and have fault, end of story. Question is do we want to fix it or put on band aid on it a kiss in hopes that it gets better without really doing anything meaningful to change it.

I'm sick to death of those getting and wanting handouts who don't deserve it, I very much feel we need welfare reforms. However I'm also tired of the crony capitalism going on where banks get theirs and are relieved of most all risk yet those on the other side of the equation, that while guilty I'd say are ultimately less responsible and certainly not in as cushy a position to deal with the down fall, get mostly shafted. I also very much feel we need financial reforms.

As far as these people stealing from the grocery store, very wrong and should not be approving of that. However, it does appear that Spain is playing some favoritism and needs to focus on its people some more, but again doesn't have to be free handout. I'm sure there are plenty of temp civil service type jobs, pick up trash ect. that could be done in the interim to help pay for some of the help their gov passes out.

It all comes back to a more even balance and it is time, we drop the party specific BS, tell those wingnuts on eitherside to shove it, stop letting money be the influence, and find solutions and listen to those who are actually willing to look at both sides and find the best possible route to solving the problem. Also means dropping the BS socialist and capitalist only ideals and political talking points. There is a balance there to. Pure capitalism leads to unchecked greed. Pure socialism leads to those who expect everything for nothing. To have the best system you need capitalism with some socialism. Hand in hand they produce the best outcome, alone or not allowed to work together as they should, well we see what that gets.

dakhous:

Even those consumers who do not have loans can be affected by LIBOR. Services that people benefit from, such as schools hospitals, fire departments and public services, have placed their money in adjustable rate mortgages, currencies, mutual funds, pensions and derivatives. As a result of the rigged interest rates, member banks have not been paying out large profits to these investment vehicles. As a result, less money is going to the various public services that people benefit from. Wonder why public pensions are now so underfunded?

Besides, banks are reinvesting their low interest funds on short term investments and haven't been circulating that money in the form of long term loans for years now. Haven't you heard people complain how difficult it is to obtain a loan?

It is easy to figure out who is benefiting from the "financial crisis"; just ask yourself who has the money.

Who is harmed, the grocer? Who are helped, the poor? Are these acts to assure government employees can retain their early retirement and tax based pensions? Has GDP been enhanced? Are natural resources better utilized? What is better?

scott:

Are these acts to assure government employees can retain their early retirement and tax based pensions?

No, unless baby formula and cereal would be accepted as an exchange for monetary value.

@Phil

Ahh yes, it's Socialism fault that creates world wide economic crisis starting from the 2 wars in the US. It's also socialism fault starts to have housing bubble in US, then spread out to most countries in Europe.

It's also Socialism fault with all the banks scamming and world wide malpractices from major corporations. It's, uhhh, wait a second, US is socialism majority?

Good for him? Gordillo didn't rob from the banks to give to the poor. In a town with 33% unemployment, he sponsored the looting of a local supermarket. Looting a local business that provides a portion of 66% employment that the area does have. Tell me, how is that justifiable? Do you think Gordillo or the people of his town approached this market and offered their labor in exchange for goods? As in, "the ancient but effective barter system?" Absolutely not. Gordillo and his followers actions are the result of misdirected anger and a twisted sense of entitlement.

So steal from the grocery owner?

One can only steal the food for so long. Quite soon, there will be no food in the grocery stores. The stores will close. More people will be out of work. Many more will go hungry because there will be no food to buy or steal. Wow, I just described socialism. Vote no to Obama and other extremist democrats or we will end up in the same predicatment.

I know there are unemployed, and hungry and stressed people here, but it is still fixable in the US. If the government takes over everything, makes false promises of everyone having the same, then we will become Greece or Spain or Italy or England ect ad nauseum.

Read the article again, the "robberies" were staged. He didn't steal anything.

Thinking of the wrong staging. Staging can also mean he led and told people where to go and what to steal. You know like staging an assault on a castle?

I believe what you see is massive unemployment. The story says nationwide in Spain, the unemployment rate is 25% (compared to 8.3% in the US). In this "mayor's" town, the unemployment is more like 30%. Young people (mostly under 25 I guess, the rate is 50%.

Desperate people do desperate things, but it doesn't fix the problem.

@ somebefuddledperson - I am not sure you are completely correct about the unemployment figures. Our unemployment figures are fudged. We probably omit more people then we include. Especially now. I don't know how Spain calculates theirs. It may very well be that when unemployment numbers are calculated in the same fashion the numbers may be much closer together. I won't say we are close to 33% but double or triple that 8% is not unreasonable to guess.

yeah, like walmart that tiny mom and pop op, or tesco. Not condoning the stealing, but saying no grocery stores are rich is a bit silly.

hey gabber....you must be Christian...full of love and compassion

Mark, the grocery arm of Walmart didn't make them and won't make them richer, the retail arm had already done that. Reselling commodities like food is never a truly lucrative venture and a grocer in Spain, I will guarantee you is not 'rich'. Think things all of the way through before you post please.

Thank you for noticing beadarg, I am a Christian, and I do have love and compassion for those who are working and running a business to provide for their families, not some wannabe liberal legacy seeker encouraging his followers to break the law and go to jail for it while he sits by and watches, smilingly. What a pathetic ruse this guy is putting on.

I think you are confusing social democracy and socialism. Europe has social democracies. You live in an oligarchy, like russia, you know, the former communists.

Fascism doesn't work either.

Wrong - what is happening in Europe is the end result of an inherently flawed and corrupt capitalist system coming to a head. While I agree that communism / socialism hasn't worked, you can''t tell me that capitalism has. We need a re-think and a whole new financial model for the world. At the moment, the bankers are screwing us all.

The US is also in serious debt and they will soon be facing these same problems. You can either do the ostrich move and pretend it'll never happen to you or start thinking about how we can adopt a new monetary system that will be more equitable and sustainable.

capitalism does not support the welfare state. Capitalism does not take from the wealthy and give to the lazy in an effort to redistribute the wealth. Capitalism rewards those who are productive and starves out those who will not work. Margret thatcher once said that the problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money. This is what is happening all over europe. Spain has ran out of money they need to get some more of somebody elses money to support themselves. Capitalism may seem harsh, but it is nothing to compare the pain of national bankrupcy spreading across the world. nations did not fail because they did not have a safety net. They fail because they have a safety net that will always turn into a hamock. people talk about the 21st century, like they should not have to work anymore. They are entitled to take what ever they want from whoever has what they want. This path will only lead to violence in the streets. We need to stop the entitlements now before it is to late.

Thatcher also said that there is no such thing as society. And then last summer when Londoners were rioting, people wondered why others were "destroying their own community" completely forgetting that for 30/40 years we'd been telling everybody that they're an individual, that they should only worry about themselves and that community doesn't matter, starting with Margaret Thatcher.

Also, capitalism makes the welfare state necessary. If you're a proper free market capitalist, you don't believe in full employment. The theory is that if there are more people than jobs then it makes for competition and increased productivity. It also makes for lower wages. The problem is that it also means that there is guaranteed unemployment, and that's why it makes a welfare state necessary.

You don't want a welfare state then you need to guarantee full employment, which is a very socialist ideal.

Your choice.

So many pathetic liberal lies. Socialism IS fascism. Stealing from one person to give to another is a fascist act.

Thatcher was right, there is no such thing as a society. That does not mean there is no community, big difference. Numerous studies show the "common good" model falls apart above about 100 people, it only works when people know each other. The failure socialism makes is trying to expand something that works on a neighborhood level to an entire nation or even region.

It's a pathetic lie that people destroy their own community due to lack of communality, quite the opposite, there is complete communality participation in the mob that does it. It's what happens when you are given something you have not earned. When that happens you have no respect for it, and even resentment towards it.

Again this has been pointed out in numerous studies. And if people did take care of themselves community wouldn't matter.

sfox-1761595 - The USA is the most capitalistic country of the Earth. There are very little social safety nets. The Social Security pensions are jokes. If you do not have any other sources of income when retiring, you will starve to death. We do have, however, the mightiest military force in the whole world. We spend more money on defense then the rest of the world many times over. We do, however, give subsidies (money which we do not have) to oil companies. Our congress is bought and paid by wealthy people and corporations. This is a capitalistic system at its best. Yet we are almost $15 trillion in debt. The Social Security fund is full of I Owe You's. Most of us are paying to it, but the money is spent for something else. I know I most likely will not see it at all.

The sky rocketing debt started happening in the 1980's. Where for 12 years republicans were in power borrowing and raising taxes (remember the debt clock). Remember why your predecessors came to this country in the 19th century? Is it to escape the tyranny socialism or is it to escape the lords that exploited everyone they could...sort of like today's strong and wealthy...The Rich by far do not care about anyone but themselves. Believe me when I say this. If our country was invaded right now, vast majority of the rich would cross over to the other side just to save their riches. The regular people would be fighting and dying for this land...sort of like it is right now.

I am not saying at all that it is wrong to be rich and I have never been given anything worth mentioning for free nor do I want it. All I am saying is that some of you are doing things that are totally against your own interests, and I have to admit I do not understand it.

America has been living under Capitalism for over 100 years. Yes, it has had its downer moments, but it always goes back up. The most Capitalistic country in Europe right now is Germany and the Germans are doing better than anyone else right now. Angela Merkel, the prime minister of Germany, has Capitalistic ideas that seem to be helping her country. It's pretty sad that no one is listening to Merkel, not even our own president.

Thatcher was right, there is no such thing as a society. That does not mean there is no community, big difference.

That's just bollocks, frankly.

The problem with spain has been well documented. Not the social policies but more the banks and the politicians being strongly linked. The banks lost lots of money and the politicians lost trust, hence financial crisis. Remain ignorant, because if you knew something, you'd be mildly dangerous.

Yes and the fact that so much money is being poured into labor money that they don't have. The whole bank's needing a bailout is because people took out loans and then spent all that money on stupid things and lived beyond their means. It's exactly what happened here in the States, people took out loans against their houses and bought items they wanted to and spent beyond their means then it came back to bite them in the ass by defaulting on their bank loans. So then the banks were out money since they weren't going to get paid back on their loan. Yes some banks did wrong things but the major problem came from people living beyond their means. When you live beyond your means and something major happens in the economy @!$%# hits the fan.

Governments that are ruled by people that believe the government should hand you everything on a plate is what ruins countries.

This is a gross exaggeration. There may be a few clueless lazy people who believe that government should hand you everything. But the vast majority of people who want a social safety net want government to be there to help out when all else fails. We want government to establish and enforce rules that allow for fairness, so banks can't take advantage of people, and employers pay fair wages, so that people who work can support their families. Since everyone pays the government with their taxes, the government should be working for everyone, not just the banks and big businesses. Society as a whole is better when there is a safety net in place to keep people out of poverty when they lose their jobs and no other jobs are available. That's also humanity.

I'm fine with a safety net I understand that things can get rough and sometimes people do actually need some help. But when you have so much entitlement spending going on its just crazy. There is lots of fraud and waste in the entitlement spending that needs to be fixed but when someone tries to put up a bill for vote it gets shot down by the liberals. I have 3 families living across the street from me all on welfare and disability that also peddle drugs. There was a bill to force everyone that gets help from the government to be drug tested but that bill was shot down. I don't like the fact that my tax dollars is going to help people that are on drugs and selling them. I also wouldn't say its a gross exaggeration since look at what some unions are calling for a new bill of rights that adds a right to have a job. Really?

Don't worry you wonderful Libs will stand up and give from your own pocket to take care of the needy... Sorry, I can't even say that with a straight face... The only way libs give is from conservatives pockets! What is 10% of what Mitt based on his tax return released??? OVER 1 MILLION DOLLARS. I'm sure that helped more poor than you have...

Yes because the Liberals are doing such a great job right? Look at all the big liberal states that are in the red big time. I live in California and its bad here with the budget. It's because liberal's think the government should provide people with everything which is flat out false. If you want something you work for it and earn it. Now all the people that defaulted on their loans because they spent it on stupid things are getting a bailout by the government while people like me who saved up money and paid off my house have to pony up for everyone else that couldn't manage their money and use it wisely.

Yea and look how well socialism and social democracies are working out in europe hmmmmmm. I hope the whole EU falls into debt so people can see how bad those policies of social justice really are. Also be nice if the United States of America would stop propping up the Euro by infusing billions of dollars into their banks -.-

I am confused so please explain. I recently looked into the countries worldwide with the highest work-life index and per capita and the lowest unemployment, and they seem to be predominantly socialist democracies. These include Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, Finland, Belgium, Switzerland, and Sweden. America failed to crack the top ten by far. And aren't socialist leanings working out pretty well for Canada? And don't even get me started on Iceland!

About 20 years ago Canada could no longer afford their Socialist tendencies and made drastic changes which saved them from going under.

Canada is socialist/ capitalist blend, yes? Socialized health care, many major utilities, etc. Do you really not think it barbaric that a country as rich as the US allows its citizens to suffer and die needlessly every day from totally treatable, even preventable, illnesses and diseases, as well as injuries? And do you not agree that the US failure to treat medical problems in its citizenry when they arise only ends up costing tax payers MUCH more over time, between lost wages, etc.?

queenofjupiter

I am confused so please explain. I recently looked into the countries worldwide with the highest work-life index and per capita and the lowest unemployment, and they seem to be predominantly socialist democracies. These include Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, Finland, Belgium, Switzerland, and Sweden. America failed to crack the top ten by far. And aren't socialist leanings working out pretty well for Canada? And don't even get me started on Iceland!

Your correct in the overall statistics. But the reason academia and political scientist don't use those countries in comparison with America is that our demographics and theirs are far different. It is like comparing apples to oranges. It is like comparing Beverly Hills to Detroit...............it's demographics.

gtouch -- thanks for your hopefully informed and civilized response. i will certainly check into that and reevaluate my position accordingly. i really dig that you can respond with actual information rather than vicious emotional personal attacks like so many here do.

Europe is freer and more prosperous than it has ever been with a blend of capitalism and socialism. that is exactly the point. Nobody here is advocating the destruction of capitalism. Capitalism is integral to our economy and way of life. What we are fighting is the complete and utter destruction of our social systems sought by the corporate elite and their fascist, republican, party. Most of you people, who claim to be patriots, seem to forget that World War II was not fought against communism, but against fascism. The Cold War was fought against those who were communists, not socialists. We are a society, and therefore some level of socialism is also integral to our way of life!

That's what I was just thinking. By all means march and protest, but the grocery store owners are just as much a part of their communities and probably having the same difficulties. Now they have suffered a loss in profits? I highly doubt the store owners are part of the hugely wealthy citizens of Spain.

The United States of America was the most prosperous country on the planet for a very long time. We only have become weakened by adopting Socialist policies. Socialism has failed every time it has been tried. You cannot ignore economic laws.

Samuel-291427

They will ignore economic laws because they think they know better. It's sad that they ignore basic economic laws and bring countries to this because of social justice and socialist policies.

ECONOMY = ECONOMIZE.

ECONOMY TODAY = BANKING SYSTEM

BANKING SYSTEM = INHERENTLY FLAWED

This means, my dear friends... that without a "referee" to call FOUL, the victims are left to take action in a game where the bully gets help whenever he gets a scrape punching the people in the nose.

what you saw for the last few decades was unchecked prosperity... if you walk towards a cliff you don't fall off until you reach the cliff. just because you had not fallen previously does not mean you were not going to reach the cliff. MINOR RESEARCH of your banking/monetary system will show you a linear path to failure. good luck!

1. there is NOTHING socialist about a world where the largest corporations hold more influence than their respective governments... where corporations have the power to influence war as much as religion Remember a corporation's ultimate goal: PROFIT. And whenever PROFITS conflict with HUMAN VALUES, take a guess which one is the rock and which one is the egg? Maybe we should stop paying attention to a media system that CONFESSES addressing the sheep at the intellectual level of a 5th grader.

2. shifting away from the status quo DOES NOT IMPLY going back to another archaic system. This ANNOYINGLY PERSISTENT assumption really shows a limitation in your ability to apply DIVERGENT THINKING. There are things that have NOT been tried... let us stop playing the role of PEANUT GALLERY and let's begin to conceive a better future, which is obviously NOT the best interest of those in power NOR their counterparts wishing to be in power. The notion of Democrats/Republicans is a JOKE ON YOU, and will go down in history as such.

SHOW SOME INTELLECTUAL PRIDE PEOPLE.

Wake up America... we're at the point of shame and the tragic nature of our zeitgeist is actually becoming comical.

"basic economic laws"... LOL. To the extent that people will go in order to defend what they cannot even describe.

Go study economics then come back and talk, not pull random @!$%# from the internet.

will an international business degree suffice for you sir?

i QUESTION things. i QUESTION the people that CERTIFY me to be able to function in a @!$%#ed up system. i QUESTION the mental midgets that can only see things as they have been layed out for them. and when you CARE about humanity AND choose to QUESTION things, guess what you find?

you are in NO position to speak on this topic. you are simply a parrot, unable to device an invididual opinion. Take me to your leader.

how can i debate someone that justifies a backwards economy because the schools ran by the same economy told him so. Go find yourself... start there.

Who's economic laws are you referring to? Those that reward the Rich and cause further suffering to the poor? Prolong the pain? It's beyond pain now. It's reality. You must over looked his statement which clearly said. It is unbelievable that in the 21st century anyone should go hungry. But reading your mentality, you would propose these people grow a garden and plant seeds, but the reality is, they all would probably die first of hunger before they have a crop to pick and then these type of governments which are worldwide would have them pay thousands for a dam permit.

jhaskins75

He's talking about basic economic laws you learn if you were to study economics. You might want to take a few classes and brush up on it before you spout baseless statements.

study economics in an educational indoctrinational system that teaches you how to function in a flawed arena. The word ECONOMIC derives from ECONOMIZING. Please show me a trace of economization displayed by this comfort zone you have been subject to for your entire existence.

Your house is not the world... and your thoughts are CERTAINLY not considering the entire spectrum. How about you look around and identify a rat wheel and connect the dots of you mental program?

^ not sure if trolling or stupid.

did you think i expected you to perform OUTSIDE of your need to label that which you cannot comprehend? did you think i expected you to NOT billoreilly me?

Yes because every single person that is rich is evil right? I can see how you think, its so evil of people to work hard and become rich through hard work right?

what the hell is RICH? the accumulation of crap?

how do you go about it? deceitful business in the case of 99% of the world economy.

get a grip... you morons need a reset.

It's called I work and save up my money and also invest it and make money off it. Sorry that I want to be well off so I can send my kids to college and leave something for them when I'm dead. That's so bad of me right?

dakhaos. I have rich friends, some filthy rich beyond comprehension, and they volunteer their time and money, and I mean lots of money to do good things and some give to employment agencies to help some find jobs or buy suits for interviews, so you need to come off that @!$%# you are talking about rich and evil. My comment is about the one's who are evil and clearly state the hell with anyone who needs assistance. REMEMBER, NO CHILD WAS BORN A RACIST OR BORN POOR. We. our society of class designation makes people what they are and clearly I see what you are.

Then do a better job at saying that since you made it seem like it was all the rich.

Another thing Mr. dakhaos. When is the last time you got paid minimum wage and tried to save it for 50 years and paid your living expenses just to survive and after saving up over fifty years, you only have 50,000 to show for your hard work in this capitalist society, and you wonder why we have thieves and bank robbers who buy the way, rob banks which are F ing over everyone's money in the name of investments and even screw around with your's. If you are going to make a responsible post or reply, think first before you speak

I work construction and make a ok living from it. I save most of what I earn and only spend a little on things that are for entertainment. I from time to time will invest some of my money into stocks to earn some more money. I'm 24 and already have 40k saved in my bank account because I spend and save my money wisely. I'm not a contractor just a laborer for the company I work for and make a good living building bridges, buildings, paving roads and everything else in between. I've earned all of my money through hard work and sweat and will continue to do so because I'm independent and don't want anything handed to me.

Okay dakhaos, Let's you and me turn it down a notch and take a time out. I too am a commercial electrician and in 2009 before the great recession I was making 34.00 an hour and it was non-union and I had 40k in my 401 and then I and 75 of my co-workers got laid off. My 401K was raped from the stock crash and after my benefits ran out I was lucky to find a job as a doorman paying 7.00 an hour and I survived. I watched proud men and women lose everything they worked so hard for all their lives and I pray you and your love ones never, ever have to be subjected to this type misery especially when you read of billionaires and CEO's who rob us blind and never do one stinking day of jail time, but let you and me miss one dam payment and your perfect credit goes to hell and the marshals are ready to kick you out in the streets all in the name of the great capitalist society and economic prosperity in the great America and Socialism doesn't seem so bad after all, especially in it's true form to help the people who should be placed first before greed. Just my opinion which basically is not worth a dam and I am now 60 years of age and bless you for being 24. Try to have a long and wonderful life and kiss your wife and kids every day.

I'm sorry to hear that, hopefully you can bounce back and work as a electrician again. It did get bad here there was a time where I didn't have work for a good year because there just wasn't new jobs coming in for the company to do. It got rough for us was able to find work here and there people needing work done on their houses. But I hope everything goes better for you :).

if you are working a minimum wage job you have made some bad decisions in your life. dont expect to make more money unless you make some changes. If you want more out of life increase your value by learning a trade, getting educated. it is up to you. The banking crises is not the banks fault. The government threatened to sue the banks for discrimanatory lending. They forced the banks to give loans to people who should not have gotten loan. Have you ever met a banker who wanted to give money to somebody who could not pay it back? the banks crashed because people borrowed and then did not pay it back!!! that is were all the money went. The bankers did not take it. The welfare class people took it. They took the money and then did not pay it back so the tax payers had to bail out the banks otherwise there would be no money. Who stole the money and caused the banking crisis? people who borrowed the money and did not pay it back stole the money and caused the financial clapse. It was not the rich, not the corporations. It was people who refused to accept responsibility for the deals that they made. they spent more money than they could afford. They are the ones who stole the money from our economy.

i know people that are SO POOR that ALL THEY HAVE IS MONEY.

They have defined life for you. Keep accumulating, you dung beetle... there lies the justification

to your existence.

"It's called I work and save up my money and also invest it and make money off it. Sorry that I want to be well off so I can send my kids to college and leave something for them when I'm dead. That's so bad of me right?"

as i said before: the accumulation of CRAP. and making sure that when you meaningless slaved life expires, your children also have enough CRAP so they can in turn raise children and leave them some CRAP. Oh! and this must happen at ALL cost. If anyone gets ran over in your attempt to live this linear nonsense, it's THEIR fault for SEEING PAST THEIR DAMN NOSE.

a means to more means to more means to more means to more means to NO END.

Find yourselves people... the meaning of life lies FAR outside the perimeter of your mental cage.

Sir, the word idiot was actually coined as a psychological diagnosis... and it actually applies to most. The offensive connotation was accepted because we like to force intellectual equality, and give morons a voice just to be politically correct.

jhaskins,

No one put a gun to your head and forced you to invest your 401(k) in the stock market. There is always a lower risk option to invest in treasuries or other bonds.

I do hope you find a better job but you are not entitled to make 34.00 an hour, nor are you entitled to a career as a commercial electrician, even though that may be what you enjoy or are good at.

I am though happy to hear that none of that 34.00 was wasted by having to pay extortion to some union.

And while I do feel terrible for you or anyone else who loses his home, if you borrow money you are expected to pay it back. It is not the bank's fault if someone loses his job or miscalculated his ability to pay off his loan. That so called "greedy" bank handed you possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars to buy a home. How dare they expect you to repay it, right?

So governments shouldn't own land for lets say Naval bases, army/marine bases and Air force bases right? Or land that they can do training right? Since that land is owned by the Ministry of Defense gee wonder what its used for?