Are you really that stupid to not know what it is show mercy? Or are you instead, one of those hateful drama queens that just has to say something negative because the word "church" is involved?

I understood "not a russian" perfectly as well as understand the mean spirited comments by Timothy1Mil. The evangelical Christians will be the first group of people to riot and demand a KKK styled lynching should anyone name Christ surfaces on earth. You scary folks need to loose weight, stop toting guns and chill - learn how to have fun once in your miserable life.

Tony,

The sentiment is good but not realistic. The sordid history of religion is soaked in the blood of all religions and the humans unfortunate enough to be near them.

I am a bit unclear on the history of "Orthodox Religion" other than tho know that the Greeks exported it as the world was seeking a connection to the almighty during what we know as the "Dark Ages". during the thousand years after Christ was murdered because he rebelled against the Hebrew, Jewish faith as they followed the hateful Writings of what we now know as the Old Testament, many "Scholars" were arguing about religion and God and so forthe. The apostles of Jesus had carried his word to all the foreign lands of the known world. They are said to have also been murdered by true believers of other faiths. As the world turned and the various people went about trying to convince others of the validity of their particular faiths, many of the old writings were destroyed as happened with the great Library of Alexandria. Rather than allow documents to remain in fact, the powers choose to destroy them.

The reason I bring this to this discussion is that it demonstrates the fervor of the religious zealots to destroy those that conflict with their faith.

The great civilization of Egypt lasted over 4000 years, but went into decline and was finally taken over by Rome. The Christians, Jews, Greeks, Pagans, Persians, Babylonians, and others all were killing each other off in order to justify their religions. The great library's demise is the stuff of legend in history, but historians attribute the fire to three possible causes.

1. accident of Julius Caesar during a battle(48bc)

2. A temple of Serpis (Egyptian) was converted to a Christian church and was burned down by Christians as well as the last Pagan Librarian (Hypathia), killed and dragged through the streets. (391AD)

3. Muslim Caliph Omar took Alexandria, during of world conquest of Islam, and was informed of a great Library.

He is reported to have said,"The writings will either conflict with the Koran in which case they are heresy, or they will agree with it so they are superfluous, so burn it."

There is only one way to stop the madness of killing other humans for the sake of GOD, and that is share knowledge of its history and hope that reasoning humans are powerful enough to refuse the zealots any more power to kill again in God's name.

By the way the Islamic Ottomon Empire made a truce with the Greek Church of Russia after the Empire was weakened by their own fanatics having killed off their leaders. Go figure?

Jesus is the only Holy Person in history that actually cared for humans and he was killed for his trouble.

Lazarus

larry-5534379

Tony,

The sentiment is good but not realistic. The sordid history of religion is soaked in the blood of all religions and the humans unfortunate enough to be near them.

I am a bit unclear on the history of "Orthodox Religion" other than tho know that the Greeks exported it as the world was seeking a connection to the almighty during what we know as the "Dark Ages". during the thousand years after Christ was murdered because he rebelled against the Hebrew, Jewish faith as they followed the hateful Writings of what we now know as the Old Testament, many "Scholars" were arguing about religion and God and so forthe. The apostles of Jesus had carried his word to all the foreign lands of the known world. They are said to have also been murdered by true believers of other faiths. As the world turned and the various people went about trying to convince others of the validity of their particular faiths, many of the old writings were destroyed as happened with the great Library of Alexandria. Rather than allow documents to remain in fact, the powers choose to destroy them.

Mankind is violent by nature, take away religion and we will find another reason to kill each other.

all this hoopla over a band that calls itself ( PUSSY RIOT ) too funny

Pulsar, thanks for a sensible contribution to the discussion!

The girls should be set free if they apologize for their acts and promise never to commit such an act again.

set aside the motivations for what the girls did and just examine what they did. Is this really a jailable offense in a modern and supposedly free society? NO. at worst it is a fine or a community service kind of thing and by locking these Women up Putin is just reaffirming to the world at large that he is a mafia dictator ruling with the same iron fist as his communist predecessors. he has just abandoned the failed utopian ideals of communism in favor of a wild west type of capitalism. sort of a cross between America circa 1900 with the religious tolerance of spain during the inquisition. I feel for these three women but at the same time i am glad that this happened and hope that more similar instances happen soon so the other first world powers can no longer pretend that arab dictators are the only ones that pose a threat to human rights and overall global freedom.

The last person, Jesus, who stood up to the authorities by starting a RIOT in a church/temple by overturning tables etc., was crucified for his actions just a few days later; so why should Pussy Riot not be punished for their stupid deed.

Does anyone really think these girls were jailed because of true Religious feeling. The Government just wants to break their will in prison and beat them into conformity and submission. It ultimately has nothing to do with Catholicism. It has to do with conformacy and obedience no matter what. Dictators, Fundamental Christians and Islam are all against Free Will, Questions, and Free thought. Now they will be broken. To Americans it seems harsh, to Islam stoning might be more appropriate but to Russians this seems OK. These are all the same. Control by Men with nothing to do with God.

I wholeheartedly Disagree.....Naughty pussy needs to be Punished!

Hey TomTom - Jesus was in the courtyard of the Temple, where the peddlers were selling overinflated animals for sacrifice. He was not IN the Temple. If these girls wanted to stage a protest outside the Church that would have been fine in my book. They crossed the line, and deserve punishment. I do think 2 years is way too harsh. Time served, or maybe another 3 months should be more than sufficient.

Hey TomTom - Jesus was in the courtyard of the Temple, where the peddlers were selling overinflated animals for sacrifice.

"And Jesus went INTO THE TEMPLE of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the money changers, and the seats of them that sold doves." Matt 21:12. Where did it say courtyard?

Here we go again, some people have to turn this silly story into a Bible study class.

with a name like pussy riot- they have no respect for themselves much less anyone else. while their is freedom of speech in america. this is not true for most of your foreign countries. when you go into a foreign country you must have respect for that leader even if you do not agree with his/her policies. you must go about the legal way of changing things that you do not agree with. i think should have been given community service time instead of jail time. i dont know anything about russian prisons but i gather it would be no picnic.

THX, Wise,

Nice word, lots of potential, sciolist, sciolame...For a few seconds, I thought I had accidentally Googled my horoscope.

As christians we are taught to love without judgement. To forgive these girls is the right thing and to truly seek mercy for them is also. But I think in a modern society we want to have freedom while denying it to others, to be truly free we have to respect each others faith or even lack of it.

This has nothing to do with Putin's political goals. Obscene behavior like this crosses legal lines and deserves to be punished. Russia is a strongly religious nation, and this act was deeply offensive to the vast majority of Russian people.

Why don't you travel to a predominantly Muslim nation, even a relatively progressive one like UAE, and try to pull something like this in a mosque? Any mosque, not necessarily the biggest and holiest around. It's guaranteed that the consequences will be far more severe than 2 years in prison.

Russia isn't a strongly religious nation, it is a strongly peasant nation. It's history of achievement is tied to European thinkers imported to bring the taiga up to speed, and so far it hasn't achieved. Even communism and socialism was thought up in "the west". Modern Russian history ( from World War One ) onward is about Russian peasant mentality putting other Russian peasant mentality to death. The Old Believers, ( the White Russians vs the Red Russians during the Revolution ) are about as socially advanced in beliefs as the Puritans were in Salem in the 1600's. Then you have all those Dark Ages scholars on the southern boarders of Russia, called fundamentalist Muslims. Russia has produced some great thinkers, but either sequestered by politics, or by mistrust by the other peasant minds, Russia has remained stagnated.

Mike Rosen, I have to disagree. Aligning a Christian Church with a dictator like Putin was what was wrong. Pussy Riot was really warning that the Russian Orthodox Church may not like it when the government comes calling because of something the church does. "Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's." You mix the two together and you have a formula for disaster for the Church. Putin is an old Communist Cold Warrior. He is not looking to help Christianity, he is looking to protect his dictatorship. The Russian Orthodox Church is a tool being used to maintain that dictatorship.

davidhoffman,

Very interesting. Do you think what has happened with Pussy Riot, and the church calling for mercy, may be the beginning of the church realizing they are less of a leader and more of a tool? If so, will they then act upon that knowledge?

Charlie Brown, I think the church wants to stay alive. People die. Old people die sooner than young people. Alienating young people will not get the church the supporters it needs in the far future. The church leadership had little awareness of the World Wide Web and the social networking available to young Russians in addition to traditional Russian forms of protest. I think they realize that the sentences for such a short lived disruptive performance were excessive and significantly alienated the very people they are trying to recruit for long term survival. Also, mistreating mothers of young children is not a wise recruiting tool for a Christian church. They will want the mothers out of jail quickly. The single person can stay a while longer, but not more than a year, or the church will have to deal with massive 1 year anniversary protests.

The church sees this as a mistake in severity, but not in principle. They, like many religions in the USA, seek to have the government treasury and police powers at their disposal, to stop what they see as unwarranted changes in society away from long established mythology. Just as China follows a policy of sophisticated "soft" power projection, the church will be more nuanced in dealing with these types of situations in the future, seeking charges that would result in much shorter sentences. But anyone who thinks physically damaging the buildings or religious items will get off lightly is wrong. There the church will seek maximum sentencing possibilities and make no apologies for doing so.

Just wondering, if this band was named "Dumb Russian Broads" instead of "Pussy Riot", would we have anything to write here today!!?? How the media love their "PUSSY riot"

Yes, that's all true. They also staged an orgy at a museum, and one of them was filmed in a sex act with a frozen chicken in a public supermarket. All for their "cause". People should realize that at some point, they had to be slapped down. Now that it's done, I join the Russian Church in calling for their release, having served however long they've been imprisoned. They've never shed blood, after all.

If they did something like this in most western countries, they would have been charged with criminal trespassing, and possibly disorderly conduct. These are the lowest class of misdemeanor, and punishable by a small fine and possibly jail time of absolutely less than a year. Jail time is highly unlikely for a first, or even second or third offense. We deal with these kind of demonstrations all of the time in the west. The sentence in Russia is disproportional to the crime. It is ridiculous that these young mothers will be locked up for 2 years. Russia is still a police state, and should be shunned until they clean up their act and join the civilized world.

That's all according to your opinion of justice. Russia has a different opinion.

@Michael-3842950

In the United States, they could be charged with a number things in addition to what you listed, such as criminal harassment and indecent behavior.

While the western media obviously disagrees, the fact is that what these girls did caused a huge uproar in Russia, and there very little sympathy for their plight.

And Putin's support of murdering thugs around the world should be acceptable to members of the Russian Orthodox Church, because he uses nice words and has stylish clothes?

Michael-3842905....but they did not do it in a western country...they did it in Russia and are subject to their laws and justice...what we would have done with them is irrelevant.

all I know is that I'd commit indecent behavior with the one in the blue and yellow tshirt

Russia is still a police state, and should be shunned until they clean up their act and join the civilized world.

Maybe Obama will call on the UN to send NATO troops in for a police action or even better accompany a SEAL team to rescue them from those evil wrong doers.

^ dumb statement

Screw the Russians...nothing has changed since the fall of the Wall. They have gone right back to being the a-holes of the world like us except the "other" direction. I guarantee that the baptists in Amerika would LOVE to have that kind of power over us "peasants"

I can only hope that Putin dies a mysterious death like others of his kind that have ruled the commies. Its not too late to nuke them off the face of the planet.

I truly hope these awesome young Patriots are released from the Gulag soon.

So what they insulted a church.Churches insult some people on a daily basis.Was anyone injured in this 40 second protest? No,Russia is not a free society and Putin is not religious.

Clinton did find out that pussy and cigars actually do go together

cooch,

It's not all about an insult. They trespassed. Yeah, some church's may insult people, but do they walk into your home, uninvited, and do it in you living room while you're trying to eat dinner or watch TV?

No, they don't. Therefore, your analogy is false.

Nadezhda Tolokonnikova, Maria Alekhina and Yekaterina Samutsevich came together several years ago in a confrontational art group called Voina (War), which attracted notice with risque stunts. The group painted a 65-meter (200-foot) penis on a St. Petersburg drawbridge—visible in much of the city when the bridge rose—and in 2008 staged an orgy in a Moscow museum as a mocking commentary on Dmitry Medvedev’s imminent election as Russian president.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/2012/08/16/women-behind-the-mask-russia-pussy-riot-band/KA7PvpZVuTEHJ9Lt37QymO/story.html

They would have been arrested if they did the same over here in the US. This is not about freedom of speech or rights.... this is about being grossly offensive in a place where families go so they can sell more tickets and gain media attention. Here is a novel idea. Create better music so that they don't have to do this in order to sell more music. What's next? Paint themselves the Russian flag on their nude bodies and protest at a elementary school?

Clinton should have purchased some Clorox 2® Stain Fighter...

No..Ronald Reagan should have nuked them off the face of the planet when we had the chance!

my uncle bill fought in world war ll and wanted to end russia and its communism but old mac arthur said nooo.. and called them back. too bad we could have stamped out communism long ago. when we had the chance right after plowing under hit&&&.

Russia and China! We had the opportunity to nuke them both and now we are paying for the pussy acts of our fathers!

There are too many protesters who use leftover tactics from yesterday to accomplish their goals. Protesting in the street for days, blockading public parks, and engaging in violence towards those you disagree with are yesterday's tactics. You have the World Wide web and fairly free elections in the USA. Use the World wide web to organize people to support ballot initiatives, to register to vote, to support candidates for office, and going to vote is the only real way to get the changes you seek. The rest of it is just making a mess for the rest of society to clean up. Not much different than some of the organizations that the protesters do not like.

You are mistaken...the USA does NOT have free elections. Particularly for President. those of us in NON-States like Alabama never actually get to choose from the candidate pool early enough to affect who gets to run for President. All we get is the crap thats left after the Important States like Ohio and Florida pick for us all.

Hey America has Code Pink.......

Urban Cowboy, there are groups working to change the presidential election process. Rotation of the early primary states, regional primaries that rotate, instant runoff voting, splits of electoral college votes along popular voting results, and other ideas are being proposed. The ability to split the electoral college delegates according to the popular vote in a state is looking somewhat promising as is a rotating schedule of primary elections. I have never personally met a presidential candidate. Why should the people of Iowa and New Hampshire be so blessed as to have candidates fawn over them at every diner in their state? We live in an internet information age using the World Wide Web. Let the voters learn about the candidate as they travel around the country for 183 days meeting and greeting, then let the entire party vote all at once nationwide using instant runoff voting. Much fairer.

DavidHoffman...I would LOVE to see the change but seriously doubt that it will happen in my lifetime or my childrens. Until then we are stuck being non-citizens as far as presidential races go. I find it hard to get vey interested in the process when the process isnt interested in me :(

Yeah that would never happen ;D

then why do pol_)*^&) spray pepper spray and beat people with batons or handcuff the whole whole load of people when they protest in the streets of america.

David,

Those are steps in the the right direction, just not far enough. It's way past time to eliminate the Electoral College entirely and go to a direct popular vote.

Those women, especially the mothers, should have considered their actions more carefully before they committed these acts. They acted out in Russia and are subject to their laws.... they were either hopelessly naive.... ridiculously arrogant....or just plain stupid if they believed they would get off with a slap on the wrist.

Right if you believe something is wrong then you need to just sit back and take - I agree

cp....

I like your statement....be forewarned I might use it myself when dealing with a snippy person who believes goose-stepping is the correct way to be.

Ve ver onle t rying to be goood Germans.

You entire post is full of pure hatred and pure stupidity. I am embarrassed for you.

You entire post is full of pure hatred and pure stupidity.

Only because it refers to the religious, who happen to be full of pure hatred and pure stupidity.

You are so wrong with your hateful reply that you've embarrassed yourself even more than the original poster. You must be a terribly lonely self-hater to post such bigoted nonsense.

Timothy1Mil, Melissa seems to have an accurate handle of things here. Please return your Alter Boy to his original upright position when you are done...thanks..Buh Bye.

I'm amazed at how many Christians are defending Putin in these comments. Did those girls hurt your feelings when they didn't agree with the orthodox religion? Aww... Poor whiny conservative. Time to grow up and live in the real world where people are free NOT to believe in your religion.

People think that western Christianity is more tolerant than e.g. Islam and the Russian Orthodox church. It really isn't. Look at what the Christians commenting on this site alone are saying. They support the punishment that the girls got. The only reason they don't misbehave (as much) in western democracies is because liberal citizens are keeping them in check and making sure they behave. If it weren't for liberals and moderates scolding these children when they get out of hand, the US would be exactly like the middle east except with the Bible instead of the Koran as the law of the land.

you dont have to agree with your fellowmans religion or lack of any religion. all is a faith or belief whether you are christian,muslim,athesist,communist or buddists. if everyone r-e-s-p-e-c-t-e-d one another at least peace and harmony around the world would be more tolerable.

but not everyone is deserving of respect based on their own actions.

The charges would be trespassing, usually a misdemeanor. If they had to destroy a locking device to enter the building, than breaking and entering charges would apply. An interesting question is how would you deal with dues paying members of a church, entering through an unlocked door, and carrying out an "unauthorized" performance critical of the church's official actions, without any physical damage to the building or equipment inside. If the members of Pussy Riot were also members of the Russian Orthodox Church, then this should have been an internal dispute among members of the church and not a matter for the Russian government's judicial system. I have a feeling these women will be out of jail after having served less than 1 year(365 days) time including time already served. Putin and the church do not want an anniversary protest about this matter with the women still in prison, unless both are really stupid.

"The charges would be trespassing, usually a misdemeanor. If they had to destroy a locking device to enter the building, than breaking and entering charges would apply."

Every nation has its own penal code, as appropriate to its legal system and social norms. In Iran they would amputate your hand for stealing. In Norway, a mass murderer who killed 70 people will serve only 20 years in prison. We can't judge everything based on our legal system.

Many Russians, in fact, believe that these girls got off easy.

There was no trespass. They went into a church in the daytime. The church was open. People are allowed to go into a church.

When they were in the church, they made a video. I think you are allowed to make a video in a Russian church.

Now, I can't be sure, but I'd bet that if they went into that church, which is OK, and made a video, which is also OK, and they said, 'we love V.Putin!'. They would not have been arrested. So, they were arrested for saying that they did not like V.Putin.

They did not get a fair trial. The defense was not allowed to call witnesses.

The charge? being motivated by religous hatred. How can you prove motivation? How can you prove hatred?

its called disrespect. these girls have no respect for themselves or anyone else.you cannot go into a foreign country (communist country at that). in a communist country government rules the people do not. and show disrespect tho the leaders of that country.although the sentence was too stiff.

It's absurd when you consider that Putin government was helping a Holocaust denying president develop nuclear technology in Iran.

Holocaust denial is a criminal offense in Europe.

Helping rogue nations with Holocaust denying presidents develop nuclear technology and threatening Israeli children with another Holocaust is a far more serious offense than trespassing in a church.

They were not putting lives at risk by performing a song in a church uninvited.

I thought a bunch of cats got loose somewhere and started to riot. I was a little disappointed after reading this.

yes flylowguy if you like nasty names.

You're dreaming.

It's Russia.

And what's the point of wanting Putin to suddenly seem more human and therefore 'better' than before?

He is what he is. Anything added to that would just be fake and everybody knows it.

You don't understand. There is no sympathy for these girls in Russia. Why would Putin give them amnesty? It will only make him less popular. Russian people don't watch or read NBC News, they watch state media which no doubt broadcasts the most offensive parts of this acts every chance it gets. Nobody in Russia really knows or gives a crap about what the west has to say about this. They should be glad they got off so easy, IMO.

Mike, you have posted many times on this article in support of the punishment these girls got. You really think offending a church is worth punishing? Because their feelings got hurt? That would be a whiny conservative response. "Oh boo hoo, they aren't doing what my religion tells them to do." Of course they aren't. In the real world not everyone belongs to your particular brand of theology. They are free to believe and say what they want. Any power bought against that right is illegitimate.

Let me ask you this. If we could get rid of all those mean liberals, would it be good to implement laws against blasphemy in the United States?

In the United States a law against blasphemy could never be implemented because it would be unconstitutional. You see, the problem is that you are judging the rest of the world from the standpoint of the United States. I understand that "the United States is the best damn country in the world" and all that, but you just have to accept that things work very differently in other nations. One can debate the morality of other nations' ideals and justice all day long, nothing will change. They were given a sentence that the Russian court found appropriate, end of story.

Let me ask you this. Holocaust denial is a crime in most of Europe. In the United States any speech, no matter how offensive, is constitutionally protected. You can argue that to prosecute someone for expressing their beliefs is a human rights violation. Would you then similarly defend someone who was convicted of holocaust denial, say, in Germany? Based on your arguments, it would be hypocritical not to.

"They are free to believe and say what they want. Any power bought against that right is illegitimate."

In the United States, yes. Not everyone lives in the United States. These girls were essentially convicted of a hate crime. The sentence sounds appropriate to me.

So you're saying it's a 3-chord garage band, but they don't even have a garage.

Well at least they suck.

We should care about all human-beings no matter how bad the sing, dance, look or act on stages - Here's a golden opportunity for Putin to up his public-opinion stock: A pardon for these young women at once!