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Subscribe to RSSNew Iranian missiles have been put on display in Tehran - an exhibition that appears to be a warning to Israel. President Ahmadinejad says the short range missiles are meant for defense, not attack. But in Israel people are watching warily. NBC's John Ray reports.
TEL AVIV, Israel - A cavernous space has been carved out of the ground two floors below street level.
Overhead, it's another scorching summer's day in Tel Aviv, Israel's biggest and busiest city.
Down here, under the neon lights, a massive, blast proof steel door swings open to reveal a hidden realm.
Locked away from today's bright sunlight, it feels like a gloomy and surreal underworld.
NBC News
Asaf Zamir, deputy mayor of Tel Aviv, shows off one of the city's newest bomb-shelters.
However, it is all too real.
"This is one our newest bomb-shelters," Asaf Zamir, deputy mayor of the city told me as he showed off, with no little pride, the facilities. "Here there's space for 400 people."
There are, he said, 241 public shelters in the city. This, like another 110, are protection against the threat of chemical attack.
"There's air conditioning, toilets and water. And two showers. I think the (lines) might be long," Zamir joked.
But this is deadly serious: In the event of war, Tel Aviv would be high on the list of targets of Israel's enemies.
Israeli rhetoric on Iran strike heats up
While Israel is a country that is permanently on a war footing, there is an added sense of urgency here this summer. And in many minds, a sense of inevitability about war with Iran amid Tehran's continued refusal to be more transparent about its nuclear activity and growing speculation that Israel will bomb in response.
An intense debate on a possible war has played out, both on and off the record, in Israel's news media.
Wade through the oceans of words written and spoken and a single, simple narrative emerges time and again.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Ehud Barak are all but convinced that the only way to stop Iran's progress towards nuclear weapons is to launch air-strikes on their research centers.
Against them are ranged the top ranks of Israel's defense and intelligence establishment. And their voices urge caution.
According to an Israeli TV news channel, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu aims to strike Iran's nuclear facilities in the fall before the U.S. election, which would send oil soaring.
Among them, Maj. Gen. Aharon Zeevi Farkash, until 2006, chief of military intelligence.
Now in retirement, he remains, it seems, in touch with the top level debate raging behind closed doors.
NBC News
Major General Aharon Zeevi Farkash was Israel's chief of military intelligence until 2006.
Zeevi Farkash granted us a rare interview. He said he chose to speak out because he was concerned that Israel might be about to make a costly mistake.
"I worry about the day after an Israeli strike," he tells me. "Hezbollah has 60,000 rockets, Hamas 30 to 40,000 rockets. And I am afraid that this would be a wonderful reason for Bashar Assad to launch his missiles at us."
Iran test-fires missile with new guidance system
He predicts that unilateral military action by Israel would simply unite the rival factions crowding round the rule of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
"In any case, I believe it is impossible to destroy all the infrastructure and targets connected with the Iranian nuclear plan. It's impossible. I'm not even sure we know everything that we need to know," he said.
Read more work by John Ray on NBC News' British partner ITV News
"Because of that it is my opinion to try not to do this alone," he added.
Instead he said sanctions and diplomacy, backed by the threat of U.S.-led military action, should be given longer to work.
"Finally I think Western leaders realize a nuclear Iran is the number one challenge facing the world .... Therefore with this coalition I can see results. I strongly believe we have the time, maybe eight or nine months," Zeevi Farkash said.
Israel to US: Time running out on Iran nuke dispute
Neither Netanyahu nor Barak share his confidence in sanctions, or his assessment of the available timescale.
Zeevi Farkash said they will want to make a decision on airstrikes "in the next two months."
Is the window closing on diplomacy with Iran, before Israel launches a preventive strike against Tehran's nuclear facilities? Israel's ambassador to the US Michael Oren discusses.
I asked him if political leaders can push through military action, even in defiance of the advice coming from the top brass.
"I have been in these intimate meetings making the tough decisions," he said. "I have never seen that happen in the past so I hope it will not happen in the future."
Back in the Tel Aviv bunker, deputy mayor Zamir told me the city was as ready as it ever can be for war.
Romney would 'respect' Israel strike on Iran
"All this talk (of war) in the papers has created a sense of panic among people," he said.
I asked him if he is confident Tel Aviv will survive, whatever comes.
He paused for several seconds.
"I'm optimistic," he replied.
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Leave a Comment:
I wonder how many Palistinians would be allowed in these bomb shelters !
None. No one cares about those people.. you have to be Israeli Jew to be qualified for those Bomb Shelters.
Saving an Israeli Jew today is like saving whales from going instinct.
What I dont understand!!! if you want to live happily ever after... I would think you want to make and live in peace not look for war!
Israel have a big mean nasty dog (USA) by their side.. who cares!
Last time I checked when W Bush was leaving office, ISRAEL TOOK ADVANTAGE AND BOMB Palestinian people. President Obama is close to that time maybe leaving office, Israel will again maybe use that opportunity to bomb Iran!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
in America no one is above the law! except ISRAEL :) i WANT TO BE ONE NOW :)
Bob:
Jews do not see non Jews as much worthy as Jews.
This is what I would say to the warmongers: IDIOTS. egotistic idiots. Think about it, if you can. Try a little forethought and don't get up caught in your own perceived self worth. Extreme arrogance is what starts world wars.
When you see a mass exodus of Palestinians to Cuba or Chile you will know Iran has a nuke.
Anyone who supports the Hitler Ayatollahs in Iran in their quest to destroy Israel will be disappointed in the end. Israel promotes life, truth and freedom, Iran exudes death, lies and cruelty.
So, when are the Arabs, Persians and Islam going to leave Israel alone to live in peace?
Bob, the Arabs in Israel would certainly be allowed in the bomb shelters, no one has ever suggested otherwise...except, of course, for the rabid knee-jerk anti-Zionists who keep coming out of the woodwork with their wild theories, every time Israel is even mentioned.
Asking how many Palistinians would be allowed in these bomb shelters is like asking how many Egyptians or Jordanians would be allowed. None. They don't live in Israel. Contrary to the misconception, they have been completely independent for the last several years in their own territory, running their own affairs with their own government, with their own infrastructure. Nobody is occupying them. they live in their own territory so Israel doesn't have to let them into Israel, just as USA doesn't have to let Mexicans in if they don't want to. The Palistinians are building their own shelters just as they build their own houses.
Bob... Really? Who gives a fu-- whether or not the Palestinians get in the bomb shelters? They will be the first to strike with everything they can along side all the muslims. Are you proposing that Israel owes them protection? Idiot.
The U.S. has a very large military presence in the Mid East region. Fasten your seat belts... Within the next four months, something is bound to explode.
Preemptive is always better than reactive. The U.S. learned that at Pearl Harbor.
Iranian leadership has stated their goal to wipe Israel off the face of the map. The Israelis know what they will have to do in response, to prevent that from happening.
In giving a 2 month deadline for attack, Israeli leaders are trying to manipulate the American election.
Shameful.
Maxeemas: The shelters are open to the public. They don't check if you're Christian, Jewish, or Muslim. It's open to all except terrorists. Sorry to disappoint you. I am Israeli and have a Palestinian friend. When in Tel Aviv we get together and go wherever we want. Same can't be said about Arab countries. May I suggest that you visit Israel. I guarantee you will be able to purchase property, pray in a temple of your choosing, and even find a nice girl (or boy) if you behave yourself.
50-50 deal I am sure. To be polllllitically correct. aha, ha, ha
WHY would anyone even think about it over 2 second tho???
WhistleBerries no, the US uses preemptive strikes against small nations. The US never preemptive stroke the Soviet Union, neither has stroke China or today's Russia.
NAZI Germany preemptive stroke Poland, as the Japanese did to us in Pearl Harbor, usually the bad guys preemptive strike their weaker victim.
gee why not just put all their business in the media about their plans to bomb them in the months to come. We need to find other means for energy and get the hell out of dodge. What do the jews do for us anyway? It's not worth one more soldier to give in life for this pile of crap
Bob 1.1 To answer your question Israeli Arabs,Christians Buddhists Hindus and others will all have access to bomb shelters..The Palestinians rejected their own state in 1948. The Arabs living in Israel are Israelis and of course will be covered!.
latekate : Israel have killed more women than Hamas did! so when you say Israel promote life!!!! I dont know what th f u k are u talking about?
Steven B : Last time I checked.. Israelis transfered from been guest to invading / stealing Palestinian land and dignity and Life. How do you expect peace?
Basil Romeo : last time I checked : an Israeli jewish women went out on a date with another Israeli non jewish / they had an affair, when she discovered he was non Jewish Israeli, she sued him and he was charged with rape! explain that to me?
God forbid Israel goes to war with Iran, if those shelters gets full, I am sure Israel will have to pick their own jewish fellow first before any body else! dont you think?
any body can have coffee with jewish people not a problem :)
Palestinians live in the hood over there. When the Jewish invaded they took all the good land and gave the Palestinians the garbage that was left over. Now they want the garbage land too since they always want MORE.
If only we in the U.S. made blacks and hispanics maintain their own communities. Task them with everything such as electricity, water, sewage, food, housing, health care, etc. ALL THE WHILE whites control all the goods and products that come in and out of your hood. Sounds fair huh? Oh wait I forgot about American Indians...the savages that they are. I wonder why they had to resort to opening up gambling establishments instead of having an industry and infrastructure of their own?
When does Israel NOT try to influence elections, not just U.S. ones? Why do you think so many have duel citizenships? Why do you think Hitler warned of the "International Jew" (even a broken watch is right twice a day)? How else do you think that the Jewish people organized enough to start the war to get back the land that they forgot about for a thousand years? How else do you think they stay in power? Why did Mitt pledge his 100% support for Israel (trying to get votes)? It is smart, but it is still dirty and underhanded. Just like the 0.1% you have created your own problems and now need others on your side or else.
WHY DOES IRAN JUST NOT BUY A NUKE FROM RUSSIA OR CHINA? They could have years ago and repackaged it so that you would not know where it came from. I am more worried that Israel has nukes, I did not think they were supposed to have any according to international law (not like they actually listen or care).
It would be stupid for either side to attack even if Iran had a nuke. It would not change anything but the body count. These bomb shelters would not do very well against a nuke or the fallout either. How many people have to die, to be murdered for a non-living material temple? Do you think that God would prefer his temple or you being a murderer? Do I have to mention Ahab or how you should open up your house to those in need? I should not be having to tell Jewish people how to act or behave. You should be the examples for the rest of humanity, only you are failing do to selfishness, greed, and fear.
The bottom line is we, as Americans have to prepare for another war. That means no democratic bs! The Iran and Isreal situation is a huge deal... And for the idiots who keep talking about its all about oil! of course it is. when was the last time u drove your car on cornstarch dickheads????Tell me, cause if you have your full of @!$%#! our next war is coming and coming soon so get ready, its only going to get worse. Idiots!!!!
Tired : I totally agree with you but who listens? The Israeli Jews have build more tolerance and selfishness and greed and power that they dont care about the rest of the world, they show you one good thing and do million evil things at the same time! so many faces to keep up with!!! unpredictable and insecure and unprofessional and have no respect for human rights, dignity, religion etc,...
I wonder why every one hates them there! Hitler is one of them, it tells you it s not about Muslims only! and it s nothing personal! they were always unwelcome by someone in every century. they have been always cursed since day 1 but never learned from their mistakes. Since Prophet Moses message to them, they have ignored all other messages send by God after Moses! they never want it to change.. they keep stealing and liying and killing and anything evil you can think of.. and once a year during one famous holiday they fast for one day and pray to God to forgive them and once holiday is over.. they go back to their evil corrupted life... they can fool us but not God.
DDick : when it comes to US it s all about the oil... We have Arabia in our pocket, Iraq in the back pocket, Iran wont come that easy.. sometimes we can get burn with our own fire, the Jews are letting us again to get burn because in reality if Israel didnt exist in the middle east, victims of Sep 11, Afghanistan, Iraq war would of been prevented and many US and non US life's would of been saved.
Is this the beginning of the end? -It kinda fits into the mine calander
yeah, I've been really worried about the mine calendar. I'm afraid I'm not intelligent enough to understand it. I mean it takes really smart people to go that far down and look at a calendar... I did but I forgot to bring a lamp so I had to go all the way up to the surface and then I had to go all the way down again just to look at it! Gosh, couldn't they have thought of an easier way to make a mine calendar!
The Mayan calendar as for telling end times is a myth. There has been excavation of a Mayan room that has the calendar going on. Replace your 2012 calendar with your 2013 and you will have the same effect as the Mayan calender turnover.
No he's talking about the "mine" calendar. On a certain date in November a bunch of alien land-mines planted thousand of years ago all around the world explode and destroy the earth.
This is old news. MSNBC likes to bring it up every week or so, same old story, because it serves two purposes:
1) It ralies the liberal left, muslims, Nazzis and the rest of anti-Israel crowd to serve the liberal agenda.
2) It diverts attention from Obama campaign as he is unable to run on his record. Apparently it is not going too well.
The real news that will not come up before the elections, are the housing, jobs, economy, infrastructure, healthcare and other issues people care about.
Four years ago we were in a free-fall of unemployment and headed towards the 2nd Great Depression.
You don't call a emergency room physician who resusitates a dying patient a failure; President Obama resusitated a dying capitalist system and now the patient is in recovery. A lot different than the conservatives who would have pulled the plug and waited to see if the dying patient would recover on his own.
President Obama has turned around the economy - consider the free-fall into depression that was occurring when he took office. Yes we are much better off than we were 4 years ago.
While the recovery is slow and likely to be affected by the European recession caused by austerity; the financial market is doing fine, and Mitt Romney and his 1% privileged class should thank President Obama for restoring their wealth, and those with 401Ks for restoring their retirement funds.
We may not be happy that President Obama did not turn out to be another leader in the stature of Martin Luther King, but he has slaved to keep us from the destruction of the conservative right, by even trusting in bipartisanship of an obstructionist GOP Congress.
The Tea Party GOP are weeds in the garden of democracy. No taking the country back to the GOP despair, doubt, debt and depression.
...actually GW started the bailout (and I'll tip my hat for that one) It was much cheaper to save the banks than to refund the screaming hordes of public saying 'My money was FDIC insured!! I want my Govt. money!!' .....but nobody can ever consider the consequences of NOT acting.
dls, who's to say that Obama turned anything around? There's a very good chance that things would be better now without Obama's help. I believe that his handling of health care reform and the fact that it was rammed down the throats of half the country is what created the conditions that we have now with an intensely partisan congress. Health care reform (using the term loosely) was pushed through by Democrats because they knew that they were going to lose control of the House and possibly the Senate. Obama got his health care plan, and there was a price to pay. Poor leadership at it's worst. Obama is slightly ahead of Romney in recent polling, which has little to do with his abilities as president, and more to do with the unconditional support of the black community and a great program of buying votes with handout programs. Considering who he's running against, it's strong proof of a failed presidency.
A faked Iranian-turn jew rants for her pay-master.
Despite the semantics, right now it feels like a depression to me and the communities I visit.
Underemployment is the real criteria. That, and the outlook for the average American.
The fact is this:
We are worse off now than before.
Where once, for the average Joe, there was once a man running for the Presidency speaking 'hope and change' we now see an embittered man and administration, fighting a dirty campaign. A divisive man, with an 'us and them' mentality.
Barak was a failure.
Time for new blood.
Steven B -- It is the U.S. CONGRESS that deserves your scorn, not Obama. The people who serve as U.S. Representatives and Senators, are running the show. They decided what happens, who gets the money, etc. Their inability to act in our nation's best interests has all of us where we are today. Obama has a minor role, CONGRESS has the major role.
What all the repubs like to forget is that Obama can't pass a law or spend a dollar that Congress doesn't approve. The repubs own the House and, despite what they say, control what comes out of the Senate. Since day 1, they have made it their mission in life that the "black","muslim","non-citizen" does not succeed.
DeJay
Ever hear the term Executive Order? That is how Presidents push things thru without Congressional approval
Executive order is not law. Read my post.
Von Dorf: Zeig Heil! Back from South America already? I thought the Mossad would have captured you by now.
are you people serious? Can we stay on the subject? Ban imported hoodies from China. Thought I would throw that in there.
Fog, what is a "mine" calander? You mean Mayan Calendar?
I think you alwready know the answer.
He meant doomsday
really Foghorner!?! "alwready"? I'd like to point out the little ABC with a little check there above the box that you type into. That is a spell check. It does something to benefit your argument. By spelling simple words correctly, it makes you appear educated and thus wiser.
breezerbo06
That is the way Elmer Fudd would say it, and are you the SpellCheck Police?
BTW How many licks does it take to get to the center of a toosie roll pop? The world may never know. Idiots stay on the subject of jews hiding in bomb shelters. thx
Netanyahu + Ehud Barak = Bush + Cheney = Fear and hate = Death and Destruction.
"War is old men talking and young men dying"
That's right, Chuck...the Ayatollahs are the very essence of kindness and compassion.
It appears the intelligence officials of both the US and Israel have come to the same conclusion, which is Iran's nuclear energy program is not a threat to Israel or any other country. Iran's program is always being monitored, which precludes them from enriching their uranium to the 90% required for weapons grade.
I am sure he is also aware that most if not all claims that Iran is behind terror attacks, is pure bluff, in order to get the US involved. The Zionist media repeats whatever fabrication the war mongers in Israel conjure up.
Ralph H AND Heinrich von Dorf! Now all we need is Abdallah so that we can all say...Heil, heil, the gang's all here.
Setting aside whatever Israel will or will not do, a nuclear Iran threatens Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states. If you don't believe that Saudi Arabia will pursue getting its own nukes, if Iran has them, you are pretty naive. Sunni Pakistan already has them and would be the likely source for the Sunni Saudis, for a price, of course.
Jay - Saudi Arabia is a lot more in danger from Israel's nukes, than they would be if Iran ever decides to have nukes. Besides, why worry about something that has not even transpired? Iran does not have nukes and they are monitored by the IAEA, which effectively prevents them from building nukes. If they kick out the inspectors, then you can start to worry, but even then it would take them years. You might as well be worrying about a meteor falling on your head.
Over a year ago I remember hearing there were only 8 or 9 months left before a military strike against Iran would be "too late".
And here we are a year later, and it is still 8 or 9 months before the end of the world happens.
Stop the fear mongering. Iran, even if they got a bomb, wouldn't use it. MAD still applies.
..Iran is a theocracy, MAD is one way to deliver Heaven...
Sooth:
what Israel is? Not theocracy of Zionism?
The Israeli government would do very well to listen to this man. Any nuclear war is an unwinnable situation for all sides!
Believe it or not, that's what the President of Iran wants. Read about the return of the 12th Imam. Their philosophy is completely different than Sunni based extremism. Their goal is the destruction of earth and no negotiations or compromise will defuse the situation or change their minds.
The problem with the Iranians is the 12th Imam did return in their year of 1260, they didn't understand Him and He was killed. Very similar to what happened to Jesus and the Jews. They are now going down a long dark road guided by their own stupidity and ignorance. They want to destroy Israel so much their teeth ache, but in doing so they invite their own complete destruction. And it's all about God. I'm glad that in all those areas there is an abundance of sand, that way it will be easier to bury all the dead people!!
You have to take the Ayatollahs at their word. Don't you? The leaders of Iran, not a bunch of people from the private sector but leaders of the government and their religion, which are basically one in the same, are the ones doing the hating and threatening here.
I don't blame the Israelis for being frightened and ready to strike. I only hope, that when they do, they do it decisively, so as to discourage a long drawn out conflict. There are too many good people that are going to suffer, big time.
Live in peace people. Hate and war is not the answer, it never ends.
Fishy:
I cannot take word for truth of American President for policy affecting only Americans, And Israeli Politicians have been convicted quite often of violating laws and corruption to be considered trustworthy.
They also care for their legacy and their votes
at this point its better for America to just give jews a state to resettle.
Seriously, America have paid enough in blood and treasure (and moreover, political integrity) just to secure the jews in that middle east hell hole. A state to the jews and the whole relocation cost might seem costly now but I'd say it actually save us (and them) a whole dem lot more money and trouble in the long run compared to continune securing their security in that crazy religious place to god knows when.
Arabs dont have jews by default. If only ~1900s jews chose an island in the pacific or carribean for their homeland their most serious concern right now would prob be which is the right way to mix a pina colada. and then if you ask an arab about their hatred of Israel and how Jews must die they'd prob reply with a "wut the F& are you talking about*
It was unlikely at the time that they would go anywhere else. They wanted to go to Israel because it's their old holy land. I also think that when the talk of a jewish state was happening, the Americans and Europeans were not interested in giving them any of their land to resettle in.
And yes, depending on their neighbors and the natives of the place they settled in, we'd likely have a hell of a lot less problems in the middle east if they were elsewhere.
If they had to resettle again in our lifetime, I wonder where they would go?
I agree. Nevada comes to mind - similar climate, topography, etc. The world would be far better off to have them here.
Unfortunately that will never happen because of the silly significance of the "Holy Land". So they will stay there surrounded by sworn enemies and eventually drag us into WW III, all because of religion.
Israel has had a country in 1948, why not ask the Palestinians to move to Jordan, oops they tried that and were thrown out with 10,000 killed in one day. How about Syria, nope they did not want them and sent them to Lebanon. In Lebanon they were so nice to their hosts that they started a civil war and began killing the Christians.
How many times have I heard Israel threaten military action against Iran over the past decade? It's quite cyclical, seems to be said most often during a American election year.
So I have one big question: If Israel is a self-sufficient, wealthy and militarily capable country of taking down Iran on their own, then why do they accept American money aid and haven't attacked Iran yet despite the "huge" danger to their country?
There are people been killed / bagging for mercy as we speak, in Syria and else where! all we care about is Iran Nuclear program!!!!!!!!!!! how selfish we are!
Maxeemas,
Funny, I was asking the same thing about 14 months ago. So, I'll ask again. Where are the wonderfaul Arab Neighbors in all of that utopic peace loving society of the Arab States with virgins awaiting all. Could it be the Arab Neighbors are not peace loving? Imagine that!
Yes, the United States is a truely selfish country and becasue of that I think, you Maxeemas, as a very unhappy guest should run home to the open arms of your peace loving and caring government, people, and society. Tell me, what in the world would make you come to a country so full of selfish people? You deserve much better. If you need the money for a ticket home, I could help fulfill your dreams.
Raging Capitalist a s w i p : you are full of rage! I bet if you had a gun and I was right next to you I know I stand no chance to see another day! wow you are full of everything dark it may be.
Just so you know not sure what to call you! idiot or worse! The people of this country have many point of views, they may agree or disagree with you, if all the ones who disagree with you have to go back to their countries, America wont be America today! because of idiots like you, I see why some people in this country how messed up they are! Thanks for introducing yourslef you idiot.
Maxeemas,
I regret you fail to recognize the name and where the rage applies. It actually lends to a high degree of enthusiasm in Capitalism. But, that is for another day. So, please note, my comments do not come with rage. Now, let's return to the questions I asked.
Where are the Arab States, the Arab Neighbors whom have enough influence and power to arrest the atrocities that are taking place in Syria? Why are they silent? Why do they do nothing? Why do they allow all of this senseless killing? Why are you here if you are so unhappy with the selfish United States of America??? Why do you not answer the question------------???
The Arab states are arming the rebels and giving them supplies and medical help. The rebels don't wants other boots on the ground. They really just need weapons, and ammo.
Raging full of rage : I feel like talking to a child NOW
Sure, dont cry I will answer you.
I agree Arab states are so lazy to do anything because again they are 3rd world countries and controled by higher powerful countries that only them can vito things like syria situation so check with UN for more of the policy where Arab countries stand! I wish if it was that easy!
There are many people like me who doesnt like how our selfish gov acts sometimes! US MAKE EXCEPTION FOR OTHER COUNTRIES AND SUPPORT THEM BUT NOT SYRIA. This is why I called selfish.
dont f k in tell me that you never disagreed with our gov? does this mean you have to leave? I feel sorry for people that think like you. But, AGAIN..I think I already answered that question BEFORE.
If Israel is to precipitate war, it will be most faeful decisions Jews ever will make. It might change world's view of Jews that many believes. There are not insignificant number of people all over the world, and west in specific, who believes Jews care less about other people and they will not care interest of rest of the humanity to go with their own personal interest.
Thsi will change dynamic in the world. Jews no longer will be considered friends to have. they cannot be trusted for any country's or peoples welfare but their own.
The action will precipitate wide spread antisemitism and movement to get Jews out of other countries including Europe and Americas. The image will be irreversible for centuries or for ever.
May be it is time for them to take fateful decisison and face once and for all their fate as part of the Humanity to be able to seat at the same table and with equal right for all nations and all people.
Ironically it will precipitate nuclear race int eh middle east. Saudis, Egypt, Iraq and other nations will feel necessary to build nuclear weapons to safe guard themselves from future Israeli attack and hegemony.
Based on Israeli logic which is unfortunatelly widely accepted in the US, I would have the right to storm my neighbour's house and kill him/her as long as I assume that he/she is about to purchase a gun. Nice.
Gabe,
What about if that person is telling you they are buying a gun for the sole purpose of shooting your family because you have no right to exist. That person is also giving your other neighbors knives that they throw at your house every day to see what happens. Would you try to protect your family or just wait to see what happens?
So to understand, the country can exist but they are not allowed to choose their government, they have to choose the one that you like.
You say that Israel is not entitles to Jerusalem but that would go against United States law which claims Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and as our Jewish President Obama said “Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided,”
The money provided to Israel while beneficial to them is is a small part of their economy and please also note that the aid given can only be used to purchase American made weapons so the net effect is very small. By your calculation Israel received $14b in aid at $2000 per person which is completely wrong as it is closer to $450 and dropping. I see you did not object to aid being given to any other country like Egypt which receives almost $2B in aid.
Israel also has complete bi partisan support from Congress not just the Jewish members so you are wrong on that.
You hit the nail on the head... great example...
Another example is I kill a guy in a club because I saw him looking at my girl...Why? because I do not want to worry about if he may attempt to steal my girl...
isrealis have some freaking logic...
Another example. Hitler says he is really not building up his military and signs a non-aggression treaty with England. A few days later he attacks Poland and moves through Europe. Maybe if the world had reacted, 50 million or so people would not have been killed.
jerry - Don't argue with liberals or muslims or nazzis. They have been indoctrinated to hate, without fail.
I know I will not change their minds, but I try to educate the others who may not be that knowledgeable about the area.
Molotov of Stalin's U.S.S.R.
The difference is when your neighbor is about to purchase a gun after saying that "You want a new Middle East? We do too, but in the new Middle East ... there will be no trace of the American presence and the Zionists,"
-Ahmadinejad telling worshippers at Tehran University in an event broadcast live on state television, 8/17/2012.
.
And you happen to be Israel.
Or an American (read:Westerner)
Not very nice.
Unfortunately Iranians aren't even saying they are buying the gun at all. They are saying they are buying a Yamaha generator. But they are saying they don't like you as they consider you squatters. However you have been saying you don't like them either as you consider then fanatics.
jerry, farideh educating others???
Now, thats funny...
I have a few advice for you guys:
- Invest with Bernie madoff in NY; he is the best , credible inv. banker around.. Min 13% return.....
- You know what happened in germany WWII? There were concentration camps stuffed with jews... Why? because nazis did not want/like them..So, isreal should do the same to palestinians...
Since you are up-to-date with world affairs, your thick heads can use some advice.
Well, there is at least one isreali with a common sense...
The guy knows isreal will be whipped royally if it attacks irannn.
I almost forgot about the syrian factor..basher is losing it over there and he may unload it to isreal just to freak them up...
So far, "basher" is unloading it into Lebanon, which means Hezbollah might be too busy to fight war on Iran's behalf. So, may be with no Lebanese to hide behind Iran will crawl back into it's hole.
Then there will be no war. Wouldn't that be nice?
Up until 2007, I was for the most part in favor of Israel in their defense of their homeland and their right to exist. After their criminal war against the people in Gaza and their disproportionate use of force (ex. illegal use of white phosphorous bombs against civilians), I lost all respect for these warmongers. They picked on a smaller neighbor like they did to Lebanon in '82 and they got away with it. Now, they want to pick a fight with a nation of 78 million people who has the means and desire to kick their asses. Not only will they lose in the long term but their eroding support from the majority of Americans will make them the pariah of the world along with the likes of Saddam, Qaddafi, and other despots that long only for war and destabilization and not for peace. If they want our support then they should walk the path of diplomacy and not war.
351 bunkers sheltering 440 each = approx. 140,000 people...what happens to the rest? i guess if the chosen number are safe................what everyone forgets is if it boils down to nuclear war in the middle east, neither israeli, iranian nor many of the neighbouring peoples will be around in the aftermath.
When the blood of Jewish people run in the streets of Israel, then the people will regret not giving peace a chance. The Ayatollahs are taunting Israel to start a war that will justify Jihad. Israel's neighbors, Syria, Iraq and Egypt are too unstable for Israel to attack another Islamic country. Blitzkrieg can penetrate territories next to your borders, but Israel does not have the capability for occupation and neither does America.
President Obama has been supportive of Israel and responsive the the defense needs of Israel including bolstering its missile defense. The demonization of American's president by the right-wing racist element in Israel and the Christian Zionists is demeaning the support of many Americans who are committed to Israel's survival and human rights of the Jewish people.
This is a war that will not be fought with swords and shields but with modern weapons; nobody will come home dancing and feasting. Israel should be concerned about the chemical weapons in Syria, which surely will form clouds of death over Israel.
Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called Sons of God.
Yes dls. And blessed was Chamberlain the great appeaser because God knows what happened in the aftermath. Where Muslims are concerned, naivete will certainly get you closer to God.
Wars and rumors of wars, seems like we have time for nothing but death and destruction today. I really care less about that hell hole called the middle east, the biggest problem I have is when Israel starts the war with Iran the US is going to have to finish the job.
Gas prices will be $5 a gallon, food shortages, stock markets tumbling, etc, it is not worth it. I could care if Iran gets Nukes or not, Pakistan has them for G*d sakes. I say give EVERYONE NUKES and watch no country dare attack another again.
HarleMan: Obviously you have no grasp of geopolitics. America, yes even America including yourself must rely on other countries for the standard of living that you have grown accustomed to and that most other people on this planet don't have. You need that "hell hole" called the Middle East. Educate yourself and then get back to me with an intelligent analysis of the situation.
I watch the people here defending Iran like they are a peace loving country. They were supplying the IED's that were killing American soldiers in Iraq, they are the ones supporting the government in Syria, they are the ones arming Hezbollah and Hamas. When the government lost the election in Iran the response was to call it a lie and start killing their own people.
On the sanctions the U.S. government has given waivers to China, Russia, and India their3 largest customers so how they can be expected to work and given that Iran has just tested a new missal with the capability of hitting Israel why should we believe their threats are not real.
I'm not defending Iran I care less about the middle east, I am worried about what happens when the US goes to war with Iran for Israel. How is this going to benefit my family, my job, my security? In other words how is attacking Iran going to make my life and the world in general a better place. The world is in turmoil ALREADY, do we need to start ANOTHER WAR?
The U.S. has never gone to war for Israel. When Israel had wars with its neighbors in 48, 56, 67, and 73 there were no U.S. troops ever sent there nor were any asked for.
Please do not blame Iraq and Afghanistan on Israel because it was not Israels war.
Jerry - There isn't a bit of proof that Iran supplied IEDs. It is common knowlege that the US supplied Iraq with chemical weapons, as well as conventional weapons and intelligence to kill Iranians during their war. What do you think about that Jerry?
The US supplied weapons to Israel in 56 and 67. Israel had exausted it's supply and would have lost without American support.
Zionists planned and sold the war in Iraq. Paul Wolfowitz is the acknowleged archtitect of the Iraq war. It was Zionists in the Pentagon, that came up with the bogus intelligence that Iraq had WMD. Zionists forged the Niger Documents to make it appear that Iraq had a nuclear weapons program.
The Iraq war was a war for Israel. Here is the major reason they wanted the Iraq war.
Once the Pentagon's choice to lead the "new" Iraq, Chalabi
promised to reopen an old British-built pipeline from Kirkuk in northern Iraq
to the Israeli port of Haifa. The plan impressed Richard Perle, Douglas Feith
and other conservatives influencing Bush administration policy toward Iraq in
the lead-up to last year's war.
The idea also drew enthusiastic response from Israel.
"The pipeline would be a dream," Yosef Paritzky, Israel's minister
of infrastructures, said as reported by Salon.com. "We'd have an
additional source of supply, and could even export some of the crude through
Haifa. But we'd need a treaty with Iraq . . . to build the pipeline."
Once Chalabi assumed a position of influence in the new Iraqi government,
Israel would get its treaty, the neoconservatives were assured.
http://www.jweekly.com/article/full/19725/iraq-to-haifa-oil-pipeline-could-spur-economic-rebirth/
Note: The TAPI gas pipeline is most likely the real reason for the war in Afghanistan. The pipeline is to supply gas to India, through Afghanistan and Pakistan, from Turkmenistan. Israel owns the gas rights and the Taliban are in the way, which is why America is there. We have to get rid of the Taliban for the pipeline to succeed.
Your comments on this post are welcome Jerry. These 2 wars will cost the USA many trillions of dollars and Israel was to be the real winner.
Ralph,
If you know more than the Military you must have very good sources:
"Officials such as Lt. Gen. Raymond Odierno, the No. 2 U.S. commander in Iraq, and National Intelligence Director John Negroponte have said the new bombs are being provided by Iran and are killing U.S. troops."
On the war of 56 you are wrong as the U.S. was completely against that war and with the Soviet Union aided Egypt. It was the French and British that helped Israel.
You really want me to believe that the war in Iraq was so they could sell gas to Israel with a path through Syria instead of just going straight to the Persian Gulf and in Afghanistan if I remember correctly we were attacked on September 11th but maybe you forgot that.
Ralph - Your reinforcement of the ayatollah and ahmadinejad views are well known. Your tendency to ignore facts and throw in false non sense are also well known. Your support of ahmadinejad and his views on holocaust, the jews and Americans are also well known.
I leave it at that.
What new bombs are killing US troops? Where are American troops being killed by bombs? IEDs are homemade devices. A couple of generals saying what their political bosses want them to say does not make it true. Where is the link? Where is the proof. Do you think the Iranians print "MADE IN IRAN on the IEDs? If an IED comes from Iran, would that mean the government manufactured the device? As I posted before, the US armed Iraq with chemical weapons. Was that OK? It would be an easy matter for the Israelis to print some words in farci on a device to try and frame Iran.
The article says what I have been saying all along. My proof comes from straight from the Israel intelligence official, who has no ax to grind and only cares about the welfare of his country. Iran is not a threat and Zionists are liars, war mongers and parasites. I cannot make it any plainer.
Please note, "...A US-Led Military Strike...". People this is for real, Israel is goading us into attacking Iran who poses no more threat to us than Pakistan and they already have Nukes.
just a thought, when has Iran directly threatened the U.S. as to invade it, overthrow its govt. Iran has only responeded too threats by the U.S. which are directed by the jewish lobby (money) to get relected. if i had to guess i would say that U.S. policy makers are jewish and hold dual citizenship, such as ERIC CANTOR!
You are absolutely correct, stupid Americans who blindly hate Iran and don't even know why should read a little history or just google operation AJAX when the US overthrew the democratically elected President of Iran and reinstalled the Shah of Iran in 1953. Iran has rightfully hated us ever since.
I do not know if you want to go back to the 70's when they attacked our Embassy which technically is United States land, killed our citizens and held the rest hostage until Ronald Reagan was inaugurated.
Hey Jerry - Not one embassy employee was killed. They were all freed. It is too bad they had to wait for Reagan to get in office. He made a deal with Iran so they would wait untill he got in office. He then freed the hostages and gave Iran arms.
Ralph,
You are correct on that, but 8 Americans were killed when they tried to free the hostages.
Wonderful Ralph, then we should kiss the ayatolahs feet for storming the US embassy and taking American hostages. They were nice not to kill them. What a twisted defense of theocratic rulers of death.
Should the ayatollahs have kissed America for the overthrow of their democratically elected leader and replacing him with the shah? Should they thank America for the Mossad trained SAVAK secret police who terrorized Iranian civilians for years, under the Shah?
The reason for the embassy takeover was because America would not turn over the Shah, so he could be prosecuted for his crimes against the Iranian people. In hindsight, the Iranian people had every right to be angry and do what they did. The US should not be able to interfere with another countries government without paying a price.
Iran does not love the US because of Operation AJAX in 1953, supporting the Shah of Iran, SAVAK, teaching Iranian police how to torture anyone who was against the Shah, supplying Iraq with chemical weapons that were used on Iranian soldiers, etc, I think I would be a littel miffed and teed off at the US too. Learn your history people before you believe everything that our government tells you.
Since Israel is a democracy with a healthy free press, dissenting views are on display for all to consider. In the Iranian tyranny only the voice of the dictator is heard and dissenters rot in jail. So it is in Gaza, the West Bank, and soon Egypt as the Muslim Brotherhood strangles the last breaths out of what was supposed to have been the birth of liberty.
Sadly, I believe that the allowance of the toppling of so many governments so quickly will simply open the door for the radical Muslims.
Ultimately, the US should have taken a leadership role, but failed to do so.
It may prove to be a fatal mistake; for many people in many nations.
To me, the problem is we have no actual leadership in the White House.
We have someone who sees the US as fundamentally bad; with an obligation to somehow 'repay' the rest of the world for our 'successes' as a nation.
That's a lot of code words for supporting getting the US into another major war. When arguments fail accuse someone (the president no less) of being unpatriotic or anit-American to try to make your point. I'm not an Obama fan but he did not single handedly create every US and world issue in the last four years as some would have you believe.
At this point Israel needs to fight their own war if they are going to start it. The rest of the world will already have to live with the consequences however the US should not be supporting any new wars. If you want to fight for Israel go over their and do it. I resent the implication that Americans are required to die for a foreign country especially when that country is most likely going to be the aggressor.
Swan, I agree, however, we are already arming Israel with F35s and refueling planes. here read about it. These bills were part of the 9 billion dollar guaranteed loan package to Israel, even though our nation is drowning in red ink, with forest fires and drought. Will our lawmakers help the affected states? Hell no, they want to send money to Israel. These lawmakers are criminals, accepting what amounts to bribes from Jewish lobby groups.The Senate took a voice vote, so they couldn't be held accountable. How sleazy is that act?
With the approval in the Senate of S. 2165, Israel feels it has a new mandate
for war against Iran with passage of this Bill, along with passage of H.R.
4133. Both bills were sponsored originally by Barbra Boxer and Eric Cantor;
both Jewish and both receive funds from AIPAC. The Senate Bill has passed and the House bill HR4133 passed with a 99% majority.
Tea Party and warhawk Republicrat candidates just love AIPAC funds. S2165 violates the Symington Amendment and Glenn Amendment along with others. S. 2165 increases U.S. loans to Israel, funding for more missiles and munitions, air refueling tanker aircraft, encourages Israel to join NATO, use U.S. satellites to gather information for Israel, and additional F-35
fighters. Not too bad for a country that deliberately attacked the USS Liberty
and tried to start a war between the U.S. and Egypt.
All but the U.S. government admits that Israel
has tested and has nuclear weapons. Obama dodges the question, while Jimmy
Carter proclaimed that Israel had at least 150 nuclear weapons.
Two points to make on this subject. One - Isreal needs to attack the means to the end, the oil loading facilities and fields. Get rid of their income which supports their nuke program. No oil, no money, no food. Iran is waiting on the attack on their nuke facilities, but their oil would take away their income.
Second point, no one seems to have considered that Isreal may drop one or more of their nuke bombs on Iran. I have not seen any comment on the supposed fact that they have nuke bombs, and if they would or would not use them use them in this case. Another target could be to drop bombs on all the known people involved in the nuke program. Get rid of the science, get rid of the threat.
So the price of Gas isn't high enough for you, They need to stop with the threats , If they get attacked then and only then defend and destroy their enemy. One more War and America will be gone Economically.
Ed,
Due to the embargo we do not receive any oil from Iran and actually our dependence on Middle Eastern oil has dropped a large amount over the years. Our biggest supplier is Canada followed by Mexico.
Boomer54 people like you what makes Iran and every other country want to have NUKES , Israel would not dare to use their Nukes , 1) they will get hurt just as much buddy , they are not far from Iran , 2) all heel will break loose , if the Israeli's ready for WW3 then let be it , do you think the other countries in that region going to sit and watch , and how big you think Israel is ??? today Obama threatening Syria not to move their chemical weapons , and here you are telling Israel to use their Nukes , what and who give Israel the right to attack and use whatever they want ??? do you see now why people in that region want to have arms to protect their countries , hell its useless to explain things to people like you . hell just Nuke the whole world , we all be happy , Right buddy ????
I did not say that Israel should use their nukes, I just said that I have not heard any talk that they would not use any nukes that they have. I don't want to see any escalation of any kind in this matter, but I just don't know what to expect. I was only speculating about the possibilities. Truly, I can only hope for a non-aggressive end to this whole matter!!
Give all nations the PEACEMAKER (Nuclear Bombs) and wars will cease almost overnight, if I knew that my neighbor had the same assault weapons that I have I would be least likely to start a feud with him.
Israel will only do this if they know they can get the US involved. if Romney gets elected its over. they are trying to get the US buried in mid-east wars because it takes pressure off them. besides, you will never stop nuclear weapons development, if someone gets one, everybody wants one.
Joe,
I will ask the question again. When has the U.S. ever sent troops to help Israel because they did not do it in 48. 56, 67, or 73 which are the four wars that Israel has been involved in?
On your nuke comment many countries have them already including India, and Pakistan but the world has stopped the spread
Jerry:
Why not Israel come and say they have.
If you are my enemy and I have a gun and I tell eveyone that you cannot have gun to protect yourself, will it be fair? Then for allpractical purposes you are less of a human than me since I can have gun to threaten you but you cannot do Threten me.
I do not know how much you know about Israel. However darker skin Jews are still White men's @!$%#. White is white in thir midn and superior. That says Jews are like any other people, given a chance a group will dominate and maltreat minority like Jews were treated in Germany.
White Jews are not really Kosher or enlighten in that way.
Godgravition,
They do not say they have because they do not comment on any of their weapons or actions. That could be a lesson that the United States should learn.
I know a lot about Israel as I have traveled there many times and sorry but the lighter skinned Jews do not kill the darker skinned Jews, because if that was the case why would they welcome the Jews from Ethiopia and Sudan. The actual discrimination is the secular Israelis are not very fond of the Orthodox.
Please tell me how the Shiites and Sunnis get along by the way when they live in the same country. I am sure you are going to tell me they treat each other as equals.
jerry History lesson for you buddy , in the 48 war England and the French Israel in getting the land they promised them after the war , they armed Jewish Gangs and they were terrorizing the Palestinians ,and then they helped them in the war and the King of Jordan was a traitor to the Arabs , ( no day we finding out most of these Arab countries were traitors back then any way , look what they are doing in Syria now , the Saudis and Qataris bringing their Alqaida to destroy Syria ) . in the 67 war we helped them , and we told them to attack before the Arabs would , and the king of Jordan ( a British installed King ) flew in to Israel and told Mrs. Goldamieer that the Arabs were going to attack , than in 73 buddy , you forgot the Liberty ship and the American sailors , they were helping the Israeli's in chocking the Syrian and the Egyptians radars , and the Israelis bombed the American ship the one was helping them , they tried to destroy to cover up their mission , and then they apologized to the US , but read up on that ad see what our sailors said about that incident , and at that time our weapons warehouses in Europe were emptied , because we sent them every thing we had , hell even in 2006 against Hezbollah , we sent them all the bombs that were used in Lebanon, Ask Cody Rice what one of the Lebanese leaders told her , we were sending medicines to the injured in Lebanon , and he told her , ( Thanks but no thanks , you sending us the medicine to treat the wounded from your bombs you sending to Israel ) , so buddy you got whole lot of info. you need to catch up with , even when the Israelis attacked Iraq power plants , we were the that helped them refueling and helped with the Intel. so please buddy give me a break .
My Turn,
We bombed Libya, we have bombed Yemen, we have bombed many other countries but my question was when has the United States ever sent troops to help Israel? The United States should aid Israel because it is in their best interests for a strong and independent Israel to be in the Middle East.
In 48 they actually stopped the weapons going to the Israelis so you were wrong on that point.
I always see the Liberty mentioned and it was a terrible accident in which Israel paid reparations. but why do the same people never mention the attack on the U.S. barracks in Lebanon or the sinking of the USS Cole in Yemen.
jerry, your playing a dangerous game here. all the wars we have been fighting in the mideast in the last 20 years could be characterized as proxy wars because of our involvement with isreal. zelikow, one of the w. bush top security advisors suggested during a conference at virginia college, that the war against iraq (even if couched in wmd lies) was in large part to support isreal. one could easily say that 9-11 would never have happened except for our support of isreal. now it looks like isreal is trying to get the US involved against iran. you have no idea who is building bombs.
Joe,
One could say it, but it would be nonsense.
Some people enjoy blaming every earthquake or plague on Jews, now they replace "Jews" with "Israel" for political correctness. USA did plenty of meddling in the Middle East even when there was no Israel.
Islamic states learned to hate us because we manipulated their governments, make money of them and meanwhile they live in crap and we don't.
If USA stops supporting Israel, Iran and their allies will still hate us, and terrorist organizations of the world will still aim to blow something up in USA, all that will change is that we will have one less ally to help us deal with them.
level the whole continent and just let them be. this will never be over, if somebody doesn't do something once and for all. maybe a few cows and camels will survive
we need to find other ways to be more self relient and leave these people alone, they don't want us to keep meddling in their business. When they form an attack over here on our land (911) where are the jews going to be then? They made their bed. This has been on for 1000's of years in one way or another. Let them deal with it, it's not our business. The jews are stirring up trouble and are expecting us to fix it for them.