For every active Palestinian who pushes the button to launch a rocket attack on Israel, who shoots a driver on a road, or who engages in kidnapping, there are at least 10 Palestinians who supply the logistics to carry the attack out. They supply the houses to base the attacks from, transportation, communication, food, money laundering, raw material storage, and the rest of the terrorist organization's infrastructure. So when the Israeli's strike back they attempt to destroy not only the active terrorists, but the logistical infrastructure as well. That is why the death toll is higher on the Palestinian side. The Palestinian death toll goes way down during the times when the terrorists stop their activities. When rocket and motor attacks stop, there is a marked decline in Israeli actions against Palestinian areas. When the Israelis are able to deter Palestinians from using IEDs, car bombs, and package bombs, there are much fewer Israeli actions in Palestinian areas that result in Palestinian deaths. Notice how the areas with the sniper deterrent walls have resulted in much less Israeli actions to chase down snipers. Previously every sniping incident sent the Israeli army and police into Palestinian areas to do frantic searches that sometimes resulted in massive battles in which many were killed. The high anti sniping walls have reduced the ease of sniping by Palestinian terrorists, and thus the need for the Israelis to go into Palestinian areas. In some sniping incidents, depending on the type of weapon used in the sniping, the Israelis are deciding the risk of confrontation is not worth the cost. They just log it for future reference to establish the patterns of particular snipers. They then try to take non-violent actions to disrupt the sniper's activities.

There is a simple solution to the Palestinian death toll. Leave Isreal alone. If you have an open declared war, and a religious hatred of your neighbor, and launch missiles randomly into his neighborhoods, then whine about the response, I have no sympathy.

Isreal is a speck of land compared to the huge swaths of lands controlled by the muslim friends and supporters of the Palestinians. They all love Palestinians and open their houses and mosques. The Muslim world hates Jews. They are obsessed with Jew hating. In fact they are so contemptuous that the Jews that once lived in Saudi Arabia are now extinct and their religion is illegal.

MissScarlett... So what is your point. Does the side with the most deaths equate with being the right side?

Good grief, your in a place where there is so much hostility, and death can come at any time. There are some things you can protest peacefully, but being over there around palestine and israel in between, there is nothing safe about that. You took the chance, and its sad to have been killed in the process.

She shouldn't have been there to start with (I am sorry that she got killed tho). Had she lived longer she would have gotten to know palestinians' ways more, as my friend did (he protested with palestinians as well, but after a while realised they were not the sweet and innocent victims the medias lead us to believe they are, he now lives in Israel). Not a good idea for an american to put themselves in harms way like this, while most the time they don't really know what is going on, they have a good heart and have good intentions, but they are too naive.

For example, a few years ago, there were boats supposedly filled with items (non military) and sent to help palestinians, Israelis reacted and didn't want to let them pass. This is what most people "knew", israelis were the bad guys. In reality, there was quite a few known palestinian terrorists aboard those boats, and that's why Israel didn't want to let them pass (while they usually don't have a problem with that, they let aid get to Palestine), but most people don't know that because the medias didn't mention it.

This said, there is good people on both sides, maybe one day they will all follow the example of bereaved parents, israelis and palestinians, who meet on a regular basis and hope for peace http://www.theparentscircle.org/

Put on a Arab head dress go stand in front of a tank in an area known to be hostile to people dressed like that and you get what happens every day to people dressed like that.

Matt, you're assuming that there is a right side in this conflict. They've done so much @!$%# to each other that anything other than a two-state solution would be unfair.

Well, Mr Hoffman, there is no ambiguity regarding your support of the Israeli use of force on a Palestinian civilian population, is there. The facts are that your statement, although well scripted, is nonetheless inaccurate and rife with the Israeli propagandist theme that we have been fed by mainstream media for decades, primarily due to the bias of Media outlets being controlled for the most part by owners that happen to be, for the most part, Jewish. I am not an "anti-Semite" nor am I pro-Palestinian, but your reasoning is highly flawed when you attempt to attribute the massive numbers of Palestinian civilians that have been killed by Israeli Defense Forces as having been killed based on their part in support of "Terrorist Logistical Activity", that is simply ludicrous and idiotic. To think that the numbers that have died have done so based on their participation in some "terrorist logistical organization" is probably the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard anyone make in support of the widespread blatant brutality that has been playing out in the region for decades. These are primarily the result of criminal use of force against a people that have been the targets of Israeli troops that have acted out due to frustration with the actual perpetrators that have caused the deaths of Israeli civilians and as a result innocent Palestinians have paid a terrible price for that frustration. But attempting to justify these killings is unconscionable at best and inexcusable as any rational thinking human being knows what your motivation is, sir, as we realize where your allegiance lies also. Don't insult the intelligence of the readers here with your lies and propaganda, it is poorly contrived and utterly ridiculous in its content and attempted distribution of misinformation. And regarding the young woman who was killed when run over by a bulldozer; there is little question that it was intentional as it is obvious that she was quite visible. There is also only two possible reasons that she was in fact "run over"; one, the operator took it upon himself to run the girl over with a Cat D5 or the military commander who was directing the operations of the bulldozer directed that the operator continue in its path regardless of the human being in its path. In either scenario, its murder, period and the brutal nature that the Israeli's have developed is beyond excusable because of any injustices that the Jewish people have endured in the past. Becoming as bad as the people that persecuted your people is hardly the actions of a "righteous people", it is the actions of the next fascist in a line of murderous people, all believing they were justified, but in the end being found to be nothing but murderers.

War erases everything men are not to bright always fighting

It is hard to believe that someone would willingly run her over and then back over again in a bulldozer. Just so that I can sleep at night Im going to believe it was an accident.

Outrageous, it was not an accident, it was murder.

Whether it was an accident or not, she voluntarily placed herself in harms way. I grieve for her parents. This reminds me of the times when news reporters have been killed doing their jobs. The rest of the news media turns it into a week (or more) long wake. Yet when 4 or 5 soldiers are gunned down by a trainee it may make the 2nd page for a day. Everyone makes decisions that affect their future all the time. Some seriously affect them and also their families. I cannot imagine how painful it is to lose a daughter, or son, but sometimes it is because of that daughter's bad judgement. It is a waste of a life, but so is the execution of people in the middle east for just listening to songs, like recently happened. Life is less precious in some parts of the world than others.

As for murder, look at the statistics for Chicago alone this year...and for what? Drugs? Disrespect? What a world!

Breadex

Yes, the Palestinians have always been pawns. They were the excuse for Egypt and Syria to try to stop Israel from becoming a state, despite the fact that Israel at the time has bought all their land from the Palestinians at prices well over the going value.

Today the Palestinians are the pawns of their radical, corrupt leadership. It is a leadership that is always trying to smuggle arms into Palestine inside shipments of food and acceptable building materials. Israel confiscates the shipments, takes them to warehouses, remove the contraband and release the food and acceptable goods for the Palestinian government to pick up. The Palestinian government never comes to pick the goods up. It is deemed by them as better to claim Israel won't let any supplies through at all.

Don't be a pawn of the Radicals!

"Outrageous, it was not an accident, it was murder"

Ed is 100% correct... she murdered herself. Protest, but don't be stupid. Move or die... I say that to her and also everyone in that area. The outlook for that land doesn't look good.

some of you are nuts... you cannot sue a construction crew if you got hit by a bulldozer for the reason that you should not have been near that bulldozer... when you are on one of those things you can't see very much infront of, or behind said bulldozer.

we let the isreali gov get away with murder. not the first time, maybe some of you remember the the USS Liberty and how it was attacked by an israeli jet. they called that an accident too. so where was the liberal mdia when they murdered this girl? Ive seen the film of this murder, when the diver first hit her she was screaming in pain but not dead, so he hit the gas and finished the job..

It is quite insensitive and stupid to look at Palestinian struggle as terrorism. Israel was created on what was palestinian land. And while violence is not the smartest way to deal with your neighbor - howsoever you dislike the neighbor - people who criticize Palestinians forget that they are at least as much victims as Jews/israelis are victims.

Israel is the largest recipient of US foreign aid, as well as donations from the US (look at how much of money from churches go to Israel). We cut the aid, no more Israel. Note that the state of Israel did not exist before 1947. Jews have lived together for thousands of years in Palestine. It was Jewish greed for their own 'homeland' since 1897 that has created the conflict. The Jews tried to collaborate with the Nazis in order to get Palestine. Moshe Dayan was once considered a terrorist here in the US. Go do some research on the Zionist movement.

What a surprise! (sarcasm)

Boycott Israel's products!

It is ridiculous to put yourself in harms way, in a war zone and expect they will just stop fighting because of your presence. It isn't going to happen. She should not have been there. Her parents REALLY look hurt in the photo above, all smiling and happy that the ruling went against them in their law suit.

i guess it's an accident when the army squishes someone with a bulldozer like they were a roach huh? think that would fly anywhere here? she wasn't killed by army fire in battle, or a landmine or bombing but by a construction/demolition crew- it would be exactly the same as if a logging company decided to just run over protesters- on what planet is that ok? can I run over people i dont like if they are in my way- no it would be murder

Ophotfoot

Rachel gave up her human rights by entering Israel where only Jews have them.

Clearly you have not read the Israeli constitution or talked to people who live insided Israel including Palestinians, and by the way the ONLY Palestinians prospering.

In Israel, anyone who is a Israeli citizen has a right to vote. Most Palestinians who live in Israel are also Israeli Citizens. They and other major ethinic groups not only vote for regular candidates for the Nesset, but also have the additinal privilege to vote for one Representative that is specifically reserved to be Palestinian only. That representative has not only an equal vote with other representatives but also has authority to insure that Israeli actions toward Palestinians is not unjust. Israeli Palestinians (and other groups) enjoy all the same rights, benefits, and experience the same requirements that Jewish Israeli's have including serving in the Police and the Military.

Instead of Israel being the one who gives not rights, it is actually the Palestinian Authority that gives no one other than a Palestinian rights to vote and due process.

It is willful American ignorance to be anti-Israel.

DB Akron,

Nice try, thats like saying the inner city black ghetto communities control the laws of the land even though Washington DC really does. Inner city black ghetto communities have the same political or real power as the Palastenians do, NONE.

Does your propaganda work on the Jersey Shore crowd? That would be the only ones.

Israel is a tiny country, yet the muslims want more and more of it. They allow muslims to live in their jewish nation and that isn't good enough for the "palestinians", they want it all and death to the jews. Fact, Israel was intended to be much larger, but the muslims ended up with Jordan. Fact, there is no such thing as a "palestinian" people; they are all immigrants from other muslim countries, many of them semitic peoples. Fact, the muslims have enough already, leave the jews alone. Fact, if you have the nuts to protest in a foreign country, don't be surprised when you end up dead or in prison. Fact, islam is NOT a religion; it is a political system designed to subjugate the ENTIRE PLANET! Don't mistake totalitarian fanaticism for religious fervor! It should be banned from the world.

You must be confused in your "fact" posting. Israel is taking land not given to it by force, the whole world agrees to this except the US. Israel has killed more Palestinian school children and Palestinian babies than the entire Palestinian people have killed Israeli adults. Israeli and Palestinians have similar origins, as a people they just weren't planted there in a group.

The soldiers could just grab her, arrest her and take her away; instead they decided to run over her and now, many spineless Americans justify the criminal murderers that killed one of our own, peacefully speaking her mind, damn you Zionist brown-noses.

Israel was founded by terrorists. Look it up.

Conservative advice for radical liberals:

Next time your looking for a hobby, try stamp collecting, a lot less bulldozers.

les Abott, thats because you have no soul like most right wingers.

The IDF shot and wounded an unarmed 14 year old school girl in school dress as she tried to rescue her brother from a crossfire.

The IDF "soldier" that wounded her, executed her on the ground at close range as he approached. The Israeli Court found the murder of a 14 year old girl was justifiable.

I see no difference between the State of Israel and the "terrorists" that fight it. Nor should anybody else.

...Fact, the muslims have enough already, leave the jews alone. Fact, if you have the nuts to protest in a foreign country, don't be surprised when you end up dead or in prison. Fact, islam is NOT a religion...

These are your opinions not "facts" (and that's being generous), and I am willing to bet that anyone reading your post realizes that.

Just one more Israeli bashing story from the liberal press....

The bulldozer had no obligation to stop. The fact that Ms. Corrie did not move out of the way for a bulldozer shows she lacks all the intellegence her mother thought she once had. While a noble act it may of been there is nothing more stupid than killing yourself. This was suicide.

Pretty obvious most posters have never operated a large bulldozer. This isn't just your ordinary farm tractor. If she needed a cause, why not go volunteer in a food kitchen in the USA?

Well at least she got what she wanted. She climbed a fence and stood on a pile of rubble to try and tell the bulldozer to stop. So she was in a restricted area protesting. Sounds to me as if the Israeli's have the right idea. I bet no one else went and climb the fence and stood in front of bull dozers after that. I got no respect for stupid.

All you have to do is google Israel Map or Palestine map.. Look at the land area for Palestine get smaller and smaller from the 1960's until now.. Tell me, WHO is the terrorist in that land?

DB Akron are you smoking crack? Just who the hell did these so called payments for land go too? You need a history lesson my friend, seriously, bought and paid for???? Where in the hell do you get your information from son?

Imagine if the Germans tried using the deffenses that Israel does, and imagine that the world actually accepted their excuses. "We were just protecting our land"; "they were threatening our way of life"; "God gave us this land and they are infiltrators", "They are subhuman animals". Just imagine.

Palestinians are the native Americans of the Middle East.

In this sissy law country that may have worked. You can stop a dozer here by standing in front of it. Over there they run over your ass if you're in the way. @someotherguy,i don't think so.

Let's see:

If it was an American protester purposely run over by a Palestinian Bulldozer for protesting on behalf Israel, it would be an act of terrorism that the Palestinians would pay for.

Since it is an Israeli Bulldozer purposely running over an American protesting for Palestinians, then it is A-OK with the American public since she was "in the wrong place at the wrong time". It shows how much Israel's foreign influence has pervaded America, just like George Washington predicted. What a sick lot of people.

Don't get in front of a bulldozer. She was seeking attention like political activists do and unfortunately she got in front of it. she should have known better. I am sorry she died and condolences to her family.

PatriotJane,

Just like what Daniel Pearl was doing right? Except for profit of course... He should have known better. LOL

It's ironic that a Jew like Daniel Pearl who was in a war zone in a foreign country not minding his own business where he should not have been interviewing the enemy when he shouldn't have, not even doing a humanitarian act but strictly for his notoriety and profit for him and the Wall Street Journal gets his head cut off and Israel publicizes it and uses him as a martyr for their foreign affairs brutalities, but when a Rachel gets murdered by Jews its because she is an idiot in a war zone where she should not have been and she was a foreigner sticking her nose in others business.

There is no more vile a hypocritical liar and greedy warmonger than a zionist jew.

#1 Another example of parents blaming everyone else for their childs decision (in this case, to lie down in front of a bulldozer!

#2 We have plenty of topics to protest and complain about right here at home people. Why are you worried about the rest of the world when our own country needs attention

Kayner,

Because billions of our tax dollars go to fund a country called Israel every year with a population of only less than 8 million people. Thats why. Those billions like you say could go right here. I guess if you had a brain you could answer your own questions.

Gotta love self-described American "Patriots" justifying the deliberate murder of their countrymen by a foreign power. So Patriotic.

Of course one branch of the Israeli government is going to rule that another branch of the government did no wrong. This is really a case of the fox guarding the henhouse.

sandmantruth, what does this girl's stupidity have to do with patriotism? She went to a war zone and put herself in harms way. Actions have consequences. Her family should accept that their daughter was not very bright and go home. If you get mauled to death by a bear while hiking in Yellowstone that's your fault, you can not sue someone everytime your own actions cause injury.

sandmantruth,

Actually if it were an American citizen protesting ANYWHERE we have no rights to demand retribution. If this woman and her family were naive enough to think that her right to protest transcended any international border, they obviously didn't think this all the way through. I don't pretend to know if it was an accident or intentional....what I am pretty sure of is we as a nation have some serious ego problems with how we think the rest of the world should live.

Both sides of this battle have been well documented. Whether you side with Israel or Palestine is your business, but to travel that far and think you have the same rights as you do in the U.S. is simply idiotic.

davidhoffman-2390948

So tell me Mr. Hoffman, what would you do if we were occupied for so many years? Would you pick up a gun and fight back, or would you just lay down and kiss the occupier's feet?

A Tribute to Rachel Corrie
Thanks for showing us what "peace" really means.
RUHAMA SHATTAN
March 16, 2004

Today is the first anniversary of Rachel Corrie's death. I want to thank Corrie for the explosives that flow freely from Egypt to Gaza, via the smuggling tunnels under the Gaza homes that she died defending.

Perhaps it was these explosives that in the year since her martyrdom--oops, death--have been strapped around suicide bombers to blow up city buses and restaurants in Israeli cities, particularly in Jerusalem, killing men, women and schoolchildren (two of them classmates of my daughter and her friend in the February 22, 2004 bombing) and leaving hundreds more widows, orphans and bereaved parents.

On the first anniversary of her death, I want to thank Rachel Corrie for showing Palestinian children how to despise America as she snarled, burned an American flag, and led them in chanting slogans, and as she gave "evidence" at a Young Palestinian Parliament mock trial finding President Bush guilty of crimes against humanity.

Perhaps her help in fanning the flames of violent anti-American sentiment led to the October 2003 bombing of the Fulbright delegation to Gaza to interview scholarship candidates, killing three. There will be no new crop of Palestinian Fulbright scholars this fall.

On the first anniversary of her death, I wanted to thank Rachel Corrie for providing her organization, the Palestinian-sponsored International Solidarity Movement, with the opportunity to release a manipulated photo sequence "showing" an Israeli military bulldozer deliberately crushing her. (I would also like to thank the Associated Press and the Christian Science Monitor for taking up the baton and immortalizing this cynical ISM stunt.)

On the first anniversary of her death, I want to thank Rachel Corrie for showing the way to all those who seek peace in the Middle East. Unfortunately, Corrie's peace, as anyone familiar with the Palestine Liberation Organization, Fatah, Hamas and Hezbollah organizations that she defended with her life knows--or as anyone familiar with the weekly rants of the Friday preachers in the Palestinian mosques is aware--means not peaceful coexistence but the elimination of the state of Israel, and death to those they call "the usurping Jews, the sons of apes and pigs."

Thank you, Rachel Corrie, of Evergreen State University, where the profs wear khakis and kaffiyehs at graduation ceremonies, for showing us what peace really means.

Pat, the Muslims sided with the Nazi's, when terrorist hide amongst civilians guess what civilians get killed, it wasn't Jews who threw handicapped people off cruise liners or airplanes or murdered Olympians. Arafat turned down a chance for statehood, so who's fault was that. I don't agree with Israeli expansion, but the Palestinians will never get anything with violence. To all you Jew haters, Hitlers dead move on.

When you see the lion, all nice and fuzzy, and you smile at him and attempt to pet him, he is still a lion. Most people have no concept of the seriousness of war. War brings death to military... that is the way of it. War brings death to civilians... that is collateral damage, in some events, with extreme prejudice.

Wow, I CAN believe these arguments because of how effective propaganda is. Let me take them apart one by one:

Demar: How is a bear hunting for food equivalent to a human being intentionally murdering another human being? Do the Israelis not have any patrols that could remove her from the scene before bulldozing the home? Isn't bulldozing homes in occupied territory illegal? So if an American's home was about to get bulldozed, and another American came in front to protest, you're telling me an American bulldozer driver can just murder them without getting a life sentence in prison? I love your twisted logic.

Govt Issue: It's not like she had guns. At the very least they could have sent soldiers to remove her especially in a country that considers the US its ally. If you think deliberate murder is justified anywhere in the world, than that is simply idiotic.

In addition, when is the "US Government" going to extradite the bulldozer driver to the US for trial? They go after Assange who has yet to kill any American citizens, but Israelis are simply immune from prosecution in the US.

Some people need to learn that protesting in other countries is NOT like protesting here. A lot of middle eastern / eastern countries don't have the same value of life that we do. Add to that a different set of laws and you find yourself run over by a bulldozer. Here, the driver has to stop and wait for the police. Even if it's military, they have to remove her before they work. Obviously, the rules are different there. She might have been a "forward thinker", but she didn't bother to think about the difference between protesting there and in the US.

It's simply a different set of values and a different culture. She should have known better. Someone can't go to a different country and expect to be able to act the same and have the same rights. Life isn't as valuable there as it is here. Obviously, if someone's driving a bulldozer toward you... move!

Right back at you, "truthteller"

Too bad you can't live up to your name. The TRUTH is that the whole conflict started because the UN forced the Israeli state in the 40s. If the US gov't decided to all of a sudden say "All native Americans will get their tribes' land back." You and your countrymen would be taking up arms and fighting for your land as well. The Arab/Israeli wars in the 60's and 70's were due to this and the land that Israel ILLEGALLY took resulted from those battles. Rather than give the land back as the Israelis have been warned to do hundreds of times over the decades, they built settlements instead.

Don't be so naive to think their are no such thing as Israeli terrorists either. They've existed for decades, but it doesn't suit the liberal agenda so they are rarely reported on.

I am not condoning the attacks on innocent people. But to sit their safely behind your keyboard and act like you know what it's like to literally lose everything only proves how arrogant and ignorant you are. Violent uprisings occur when people are oppressed. If you are too dumb to see cause and effect then you aren't smart enough to have an opinion on the matter.

We punished the Germans after World War I and the Nazi party developed as a result. We punished the Arabs for their connections to those Nazis by injecting a new state on the land they've lived on for hundreds of years and the result was a conflict that has spread throughout the middle east, created terrorist groups and eventually lead to the murder of 3,000 people on American soil.

Maybe rather than punishing an entire nation we should learn our lesson by now, because we only create a new generation of enemies for Israel and ourselves.

Anyone that continues to blindly and unconditionally support Israel is only making themselves part of the ongoing problem!!!

Unfortunately, the middle east is a cursed land and it will never find peace. Empathy does not exist in that region never has and never will. I applaud Rachel Corrie for living life the majority of us (including me) just move along. There are risks in life and its I feel for Rachel's family and hopefully they find peace.

Those who criticize or blame her for standing up for what is right...all I can say is "wow"...and if your disease spreads then I believe what Carter said that we as a species will not survive beyond a hundred years.

"Why should the Arabs make peace? If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been antisemitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance." David Ben-Gurion, first prime minister of Israel

One ounce of sense and she could have lived to protest another day. What a shame.

Spartan, #1.11, I couldn't agree more, neither side is innocent and both have blood on their hands, and this goes back to even before 1947 (well, that should tick everyone off, I don't care). Personally, I have no confidence at all that there will ever be a peaceful to resolution, but I hope our government, no matter who is in charge, is intelligent and considerate enough of the American people not to let us get dragged into any violent confrontations.

The simple truth of the matter is Rachel Corrie is dead.

She died because she failed to abide by the rules. She died because she disobeyed the warnings given to her that it was a restricted area.

To all the whiners out there that want to blame Israel for her death, let's be clear about one undeniable truth here:

If she'd obeyed the god***m warning, she'd still be alive. Her death is her own fault. She refused to obey the rules given to her by those in power. Her family has no room to bitch about her dying. SHE made the choice to violate the restrictions. SHE made the choice to jump in front of that bulldozer.

The simple FACT is she died by her own actions.

Only cowards and people with no sense of self-responsibility try to lay the blame at the feet of others.

The moral relativism in some of these comments is mindblowing... Apparently some of our mother's failed to teach us that it is NOT RIGHT to run people over with a bulldozer?! You know, thou shall not kill, that whole thing?

Or should we only apply the commandments or the "golden rule" (whatever your ethical compass of choice may be) to those whom we agree with??

Apparently it all goes out the window when it's "strateger-ically" advantageous to us.

Corrie was bold, brave, and arguably stupid for her action, but we should ALWAYS stand up for the right to protest, domestic AND abroad.

It comes down to this... Wrong is wrong and right is right ... and we'd better realize that as a civilization sooner than later!

cjsks,

Why should we stand up for her right to protest? Because WE believe in that right? What colossal arrogance.

She willingly, willfully and knowingly went to a foreign country and attempted to interfere with something that did not concern her in any way, shape or form. She CHOSE to get involved in something that, quite frankly, she had no business getting involved in.

Do I salute her courage? Yes, actually I do. I have great respect for courage. However, that doesn't change the simple fact that she was responsible for her death. She was told to stay out of the area and she chose to ignore the warnings. She didn't have to jump in front of the bulldozer, but she CHOSE to do so.

Her death is her own fault. Period.

And by the way, saying "What's wrong is wrong and what's right is right" is only your opinion. Depending on the issue, it isn't automatically a universal belief.

Why should we stand up for her right to protest? Because WE believe in that right? What colossal arrogance.

I did not say that we can or should force our virtues on other countries... I am only saying that if we truly believe that freedom of speech is an "inalienable right" (and more importantly LIFE), as it says in our Constitution, then you'd think we would be just a little more supportive of it in our message board comments.

To say that this should only apply to Americans is hypocrisy... to say that others do not deserve freedom of speech is "hypocritical arrogance".

And by the way, saying "What's wrong is wrong and what's right is right" is only your opinion. Depending on the issue, it isn't automatically a universal belief.

No, read the quote again. I agree, that there are often grey areas, but not always, which is actually taken into consideration within my statement.

"What is wrong is wrong" - Meaning if we agree that it is wrong for me to kill you (which I sure we do ;) then all else equal, it is also wrong for you to kill me.

"What is right is right" - Meaning if we agree that freedom of speech is right in this type of setting when we are the ones protesting, then it should be right when those who we disagree with do the same (and by all accounts there was no imminent threat posed by the Palestinians or these protesters at the time Corrie was killed, so how can you justify killing her??)

Please don't read any more or any less into my comments than what I have stated. It was a comment on the hazards of ethical relativism (or whatever you want to call it). That's all.

Wizard - let me put it this way, in the form of a question:

Do you agree that present-day Germany is a "better" form of society than WWII era Nazi Germany?

As Americans, the vast majority of us would probably agree in a resounding "YES". However, that naturally requires applying our own ethical values to the equation in order to arrive at this conclusion, which by your definition would be quote "colossal arrogance". Don't you see the problem with this way of thinking?

As Americans we hold certain rights to be self-evident. And even though we are talking about a person in a foreign land (who happens to be American), our ethical point of reference does not change, lest we be hypocrites.

I am only saying that if we truly believe that freedom of speech is an "inalienable right", as it says in our Constitution, than you'd think we would be just a little more supportive of it in our message board comments, as a universal ideal

Whether we support it or not as a "universal ideal" is irrelevant. She was not engaged in the "freedom of speech". She was attempting to physically disrupt something that was going on. That is not freedom of speech. She violated a restricted area after specifically being told to stay out of it. Once again, that is not freedom of speech.

Why is ok to break the rules of a foreign country? What RIGHT does an individual have to physically interfere with a sovereign nation? As a nation, we have the right to REQUEST certain things...or say that we will no longer do this if they do that. For an individual to think they have some right to directly interfere though?? THAT is colossal arrogance.

As for "no imminent threat posed"...that is once again irrelevant. They were directly TOLD to stay out. They chose to break the rules and Ms. Corrie paid the price. She CHOSE to jump in front of that bulldozer and she died. She made the choice and therefore the fault is hers and hers alone.

I have no sympathy for her. She chose her path, she walked it and she died for it. The choice was hers and she met her fate.

Period.

The Israeli's did not steal Palestinian land. This claim is preposterous. The 1947 Mandate was that two states be created. One state for Jews and others wanting to remain in it, the other for Arabs and others who wanted to remain in it. Only the Jews agreed to the deal. Maybe their goal all along would be to wage war to gain more land, but we will never know since on the day Israel was created it was attacked on all sides by Arabs.

Those Arabs lost that, and each subsequent, war. Israel, since the Palestinian state was NOT agreed to by the Arabs, and because those lands--West Bank, Gaza--were at the time administered by Jordan and Egypt, respectively, seized those lands under the laws of war. Since that time the effort has been to get the Palestinians to accept Israel's right to exist (they still don't) so that Israel could live within the two-state solution. But because neither Jordan or Egypt wanted those occupied territories returned IF the Palestinians were going to become their own problems, they never sued for peace with Israel, and Israel expanded into those lands.

This isn't the first time something like this has happened, but it is the only time something like this has happened with the UN imprimatur, and international law, to back it up. To settle this issue I think one side must win, the other must lose. There can be no win-win result. Mostly because the Palestinians are seeking their own destiny less than Israel's Arab neighbors use the Palestinians as foils for their own failed states. Without getting the hostile Arab states in the region to give up manipulating Palis for their own strategic reasons, no solution can be found.

Wizard, I will be happy to answer your questions, but you haven't yet answered mine:

Do you agree that present-day Germany is a "better" form of society than WWII era Nazi Germany?

So you go to a war torn area with a group of people who are trying to stay alive surrounded by terrorists (Palestine) who attack them at every turn, then get upset when they loose land due to these unwarrented attacks, and multiple nations who want to wipe them from the face of the earth, and you protest for these terrorists by stopping the people from trying to live, and you die as a result. Sorry she had to die for her and other's stupidity, but she had not business there in the first place. Maybe the group can go to South Korea next and stop their missles from launching if they are attacked by the North.

She was attempting to physically disrupt something that was going on. That is not freedom of speech. She violated a restricted area after specifically being told to stay out of it.

So this gave them the right to KILL her??

Why is ok to break the rules of a foreign country?

It may or may not be "ok", but do you really believe this give them the right to KILL her?? If so, I feel sorry for you!

As for "no imminent threat posed"...that is once again irrelevant.

I think it IS relevant, as do most of our laws which deal with the idea of "self-defense". Their lives were not threatened by her, they were wrong to KILL her for her actions!

I have no sympathy for her.

Now THIS is irrelevant!

cjsks,

Yes, present day Germany is a better form of society than WWII Nazi Germany...but that is not an agreement based on ethics. It is an agreement based on logic and reason.

It is also irrelevant in regards to Rachel Corrie.

This is not about ethics, regardless of what all the bleeding hearts out there may think. It is about cause and effect. The cause of Rachel Corrie's death was Rachel Corrie's actions. Had she not engaged in the actions she did, she would not have died.

That is an unarguable fact. She chose to do what she did and it led to her death. Pure and simple.

Trying to make some kind of ethical argument is illogical. You were not there. You do not KNOW exactly what happened that day. Therefore, who are you or anyone else to judge?

The facts are simple: Had Rachel Corrie obeyed the restriction to stay out of the area, she would still be alive. Had Rachel Corrie not taken it upon herself to jump in front of the bulldozer, she would still be alive.

Her death is her own fault.

Lee Jun-fan,

I strongly suggest you learn to actually pay attention to a conversation before you butt in. It'll keep you from looking totally clueless in the future.

My comments were in reference to cjsks's comments about standing up for "freedom of speech". I never said anything about the Israelis having the "right to kill" Corrie.

Your comments in regards to that are also only based on your belief that they intentionally killed her...even though you have no proof of that. Stick to the facts and not your idiotic emotionally driven bs in the future ok?

You want to argue, argue from factual evidence and logic. Don't waste my time with emotionalism. I have zero tolerance for it.

Why didn't they just arrest her is my question? If she was breaking a rule or a law or even engangering herself then she should have been removed by force. Not run over. Just my thought.

Let us not forget that the Palestinian Arabs are left twisting in the wind by their so-called Arab "brothers" who have, for generations now, refused them hospitality and sanctuary in the huge expanse of
territory and with the oil wealth at their disposal. If there was one ounce of sincerity in them, the squalor their "brothers" exist in Gaza could never have happened. Gaza is not and should not be viable and one way or another it will end. The only way it will be a good end is if their Arab brothers finally face up to their
responsibility.

Ms. Corrie sought to find significance and purpose in her life in a foreign land and a cause that was none of her business. She died at the hands of her own hubris and foolishness. And perhaps her parents deserve their grief as they apparently still do not recognize that fact. Unnecessarily harsh? The truth can be.

Lets see a US Wanna be pseudo terrorist/ Palestinian terrorist sympathizer is killed - OH WELL stupid is as stupid does - bet she won't do that again

according to the logic of the court then murder is ok in wartime? I wonder what the millions of people, jew and non-jew alike, who were murdered in the final solution would think about that?

@ cjsks it is also not right to jump in front of a moving bulldozer, stupid is as stupid does. no one to blame but the Idiot, if all activist were that stupid the worlds problems would be solved. we would have less BS to deal with.

D Buck, no, because we'd still have people like you to deal with.

Uprooting families, tearing down their homes, in the name of expanding Jewish settlements is not what I would call a War Zone. Afghanistan is a War Zone. Iraq was a War Zone. There are two sides to every coin...and the Palestinian people have two side. On one side of the coin you have your normal, every day, run of the mill Palestinians. God fearing good people. On the other side you have your Palestinian / Arab infused terrorists. These are the bad apples that are exploiting the good Palestinians.

Now you have the other "other" side of the coin...we have the Israeli government. A no holds barred...every Palestinian is a terrorist and they must be crushed at all costs government. There is no bending, no understanding and no peace as long as Palestinians are on Jewish lands. This fighting will never end because neither side is willing to compromise.

Solution - disarm the entire country, seal it off and turn it in to a no fly, no weapon, U.N. administered - NATO occupied peace zone. Force integration of Israeli and Palestinian families (at the unit level) in each of the settlements and let the roots of peace take hold and strengthen from there. Next, reorganize the government - so that each party must recognize one another...just like Democrats and Republicans. They might not like each other personally...but peace will only be obtained through understanding, sharing and compromise. Hell - their practically family.

As for the girl...and back to my first paragraph...they we're bulldozing Palestinian homes. They were not and I repeat were not in actual combat operations. The girl was murdered - plain and simple - "ran over and the dude backed up over her." The Israeli government is responsible and should accept culpability and apologize to the family for killing their daughter who was peacefully protesting the destruction of Palestinian families and their homes. Trust me - reverse the situation and the Israeli government would be dropping nukes or carpet bombing the territories. Either way the response would have been out of this world. Lastly it would be different if she were acting as human shield and terrorists were behind her taking pot shots at the Israeli military. She would have been free game...but this wasn't the case.

Lee Jun-fan, I strongly suggest you learn to actually pay attention to a conversation before you butt in. It'll keep you from looking totally clueless in the future.

Don't try to exclude others from joining in on a public message board. Send me a PM if you want a private conversation.

My comments were in reference to cjsks's comments about standing up for "freedom of speech". I never said anything about the Israelis having the "right to kill" Corrie.

Lee's comments actually were appropriate and on topic. My comments were about wrong and right. The fact that you conveniently brushed aside the first part of that is not Lee's fault.

I was clearly asserting firstly, that it is wrong to kill (unless it is act of self defense, which Lee was keen to elaborate), and secondly that freedom of speech should be a right that we as Americans are able support, no matter the venue, no matter how "stupid".

Your comments in regards to that are also only based on your belief that they intentionally killed her... even though you have no proof of that. Stick to the facts and not your idiotic emotionally driven bs in the future ok?

By many accounts it was not an accident, but actually I never made that assertion one way or the other.

My original comments were simply in response to other comments on this message board where many were asserting that it was somehow ethically OK to kill her given the circumstances, intentional or not. I am simply saying that it is certainly not OK to kill someone given those circumstances!

I would hope that you can agree with that!

You want to argue, argue from factual evidence and logic. Don't waste my time with emotionalism. I have zero tolerance for it.

If anyone is making this an emotional conversation it is you. Take a deep breath, now read my previous comments, then read your's. Words like "idiotic", "totally clueless" "BS", "butt in", "zero tolerance", putting "period" at the end of your comments. Your posts are riddled with emotional content!

I was actually trying to make it a logic discussion on ethics in response to many of the comments I was reading, and you continue to imply assertions that I have not made.

But I am sorry if I find it upsetting the so many people seem to believe that it would be OK to kill someone in this situation. God forbid any of us are ever killed standing up for what we believe in!

That is an unarguable fact. She chose to do what she did and it led to her death. Pure and simple.

Unarguable fact? This statement is wrong on a couple levels. First, this pure and simple explanation leaves out a critical element in the equation, the guy driving the bulldozer. Was it an accident? I don't know, but you sure seem to!

Regarding your so-called "fact", I will respond with your own words: "You do not KNOW exactly what happened that day."

@ cjsks it is also not right to jump in front of a moving bulldozer, stupid is as stupid does. no one to blame but the Idiot, if all activist were that stupid the worlds problems would be solved. we would have less BS to deal with.

By the eyewitness accounts I have read, she stood in place, 15 meters ahead of the dozer, wearing a orange/reflective safety vest, as the dozer crawled forward at 5 mph. If that is true, she did not exactly "jump in front of it".

However, maybe it WAS an accident, none of us can ever know... So my main point was that if it was intentional, it was wrong, which is a point many of the above viners would apparently disagree with.

Can't we agree on that??

cjsks,

Yes, present day Germany is a better form of society than WWII Nazi Germany...but that is not an agreement based on ethics. It is an agreement based on logic and reason.

Wrong. We object to the murder of 6 million Jews and everything the Nazis stood for because it was wrong (i.e., unethical), not just because it was merely illogical. Nice try Mr. Spock.

By your definition, that is "colossal ignorance" on our part, because we should not be applying our sense of moral/ethical values to other societies.

So, this is an example (admittedly an extreme one) of the hypocrisy of the "ethical relativism" (look it up) that your earlier comments displayed.

Have a nice day.

I don't care about all the rationizations all I know is they killed, murdered a american citizen in cold blood

way to go Israel...I feel your pain....less and less and less

She said her daughter was a "rich thinker and a beautiful person"

No, your daughter was an idiot who assumed the big slow moving bulldozer would stop when she stood in front of it. Your claims that the army is at fault, fall a little flat. Pun intended.

Israel is a country formed with stolen land. Like the Native Americans who attempted to fight back against us, I cannot fault the Palestinians for fighting back against the powerful Israeli government. In fact I applaud them for fighting this fight which I surely believe they will lose. I wish, that like the American revolutionaries who fought against the oppresive British rule, that the Palestinians would succeed in their revolt against the oppresive Israeli government. I wish I could provide material support to these fighters but my Government has determined that the Palestinian fighters are terrorists so I cannot. My government has determined that the Palestinians who fight for a nation of their own and for equal treatment under the law are the terrorists for using the same tactics as the Israeli army. In this I am conflicted, because I love my country and I would fight for the USA even if I knew its cause to be immoral. In my heart I know that I live and love a country that has oppressed and will continue to support those who oppress millions of people around the world. That is the conflict of all patriots. We must love the monster that our nation has become. I love America, but its unwavering support of Israel is a mistake. Israel does not deserve to exist in its current state and I fully support the idea of any and all measures used by the native Palestinians in their fight for freedom.

What government isn't an independent judiciary? What is the definition of government? How many governments collaborate judicially. What you are making is a blatant racist remark. Name a government who hasn't done acts against another government or even peace activists. And don't try Switzerland, because the are not as neutral as they claim.

Your comment is a broadstroke logical fallicy. You blame the zionists, but it was actually a bulldozer operator. Rachel Corrie put herself in harms way at a construction site and was predictably injured for her action. I tell my kids to look both ways before entering traffic and to stay out of areas where heavy equipment is operating in a clearly marked construction zone.

I have sympathy for her family, but the causation and responsibility of death was clearly due to the careless and belligerent actions of the victim herself.

Peace activists, who were supporting a group whose goal it is to eradicate Israel and to commit mass murder. If you watch a video of the flotilla you hear people on the boat talking about some groups on the boat being hardened and willing to put up a fight. That is probably why some violent peace activists found themselves getting shot.

Matt: Funny how people don't want the facts isn't it. Violence in the name of peace. Never could wrap my head around that one.

Shelly...it's interesting you only believe your facts and your reality. You wrap yourself in this aura of justifying violence and murder because you are the true peace lover...guess you also believe god is on your side. Israel is a facist state...I know it's impossible but just try to put your mind around that one. That's the reality the rest of the world has.

"Isreal is a facist state..." No Ron... just their bulldozers are Facists

Ron, maybe Shelley is just not the hatemonger you seem to be.

Shelly from Portland Oregon

Matt: Funny how people don't want the facts isn't it. Violence in the name of peace. Never could wrap my head around that one.

How was Corrie being violent? I think you are being an apologist for murder.

Jews in Germany put themselves in harms way by spearheading the "gun control" movement and stripping their own people of means to defend themselves. So by the Jew logic on this board the Jews in the holocaust deserved to be baked to death in ovens because its their own fault. It was also a war zone over there so if the Jewish Judge had been residing in the Nuremberg trial all the Nazi War Criminals would have been found completely innocent.

funny how a religion is now a race but races dont exist unless something bad happens to them or anyone criticizes them. I thought we believed in equality- you know not propping one group of people up and not tearing another down.

Little rich girl should of learned better than to stand in front of a bulldozer. What was she doing over there sticking her nose in other peoples business! Didn't her parents have enough intelligence to warn her that part of the world is a dangerous place. For years the palestinians have been blowing up israels children! School buses, public and private buildings. Did any of you ever think the Israeli's want thier own land and to be left alone!

Israel is our only support in that part oif the world. Until we grow up and get the hell out of there and start worrying about the USA, we don't have a choice!! We don't need to be the worlds babysitters!!!! Close our borders and take care of americans!!!!!!!!!

Tim,

"Israel is our only support in that part of the world."

I think what you meant to say is Israel is our only antagonistic child-friend in that part of the world and we have to provide them with billions of dollars a year and billions in Military Goods and even provide our own soldiers to fight their battles because they have better things to do like enjoy the billions a year with under an 8 Million person population. What the hell are they doing with billions a year? They could all be multi-millionaires by now and buy land wherever they want. This is sick.

Israel is our [US] biggest customer of aid; military hardware, intelligence, cyber hacking and finacial lobbying. We as a people both pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian can't possibly fathom the day to day struggles of theses people to "just live"!

To blatantly accuse either party for the death of this young lady is not only stupid but setting a very dangerous precedent for future peaceful protests. Not only there but here. Nobody that I know in my short lifetime has ever condoned Bloody Sunday here in the US. Yet, fifty years later we condone the running over a human being with a multiple ton vehicle as if it's justified.

Israelis and their Zionist supporters have no problem with Israel killing Americans. They ho hum the events and call them accidents, as they did with the killing of 34 sailors on the USS Liberty, which was in international waters, when attacked by Israeli planes and torpedo boats.

18 June 1967: Israeli Court of Inquiry
exonerates Israeli government and all those involved, saying that its torpedo
boats erroneously reported the Liberty's speed at 30 knots instead of 5, and
that the Liberty flew no flag and had no identifying markings. Later, Israel
will honor Motor Torpedo Boat 203, the one that fired the deadly torpedo at the
Liberty, by putting its wheel and bell on display in its naval museum, among
those maritime items of which it is most proud.

1981: National Security Agency review,
"Attack on a Sigint Collector, the USS Liberty Incident," rejects the
Israeli Court of Inquiry's "mistake" theory and accuses Israeli
fighter pilots and torpedo boat crewmen and commanders of perjury.

1982: Israeli senior lead pilot approaches
former Congressman Pete McCloskey and admits that he recognized the Liberty as
American immediately, so informed his headquarters, and was told to ignore the
American flag and continue his attack. He said he refused to do so and returned
to base, where he was arrested.

If anyone disputes this post, I will be happy to post the entire timeline of the attack, which includes comments from our Jewish president, Lyndon Johnson. Johnson ordered the coverup and in fact ordered the rescue planes back to theaircraft carriers.Johnson was a closet Jew and ardent Zionist on his maternal grandparents side.

The Palestinians are the criminal gypsies of the mid-east...liars cheats and murders. For you over educated liberal zombies that will not do your research before spewing your liberal anti-Jewish agenda (like the Nazis of WWII) I will educate you on the Palestinians. The Palestinian people use to live in Jordan. They were such a criminal activity problem for the Jordanians, their Muslims brothers killed them in large numbers and ran them out of Jordan. Hmmm... does this sound familiar? If you read the book "A Case for Israel" you will be informed on what Israel has done historically to fix that situation since 1948. But then again the facts will not bring forward the liberal agenda. The facts will be meaningless to the Liberal zombies.

Ophotfoot,so it was the Jews fault that the Nazi's murdered them, you're a prize,but with your rational how can you be upset with what is happening to the Palestinians? You should be upset with Arafat, who through his own arrogance threw away a chance at statehood, but at least his wife is well off

The US is supplying billions of dollars to Muslim countries, (you know, the ones that proclaim "death to America"), so don't complain about any piddly money Israel is getting.

This woman burned a mock US flag-sounds like she was a traitor. She was also EXTREMELY foolish to stand in front of or anywhere near a moving bulldozer. There is a reason non workers are not allowed in zones where big machinery is being used-it's DANGEROUS! Even workers are often injured or killed working on those machines.

The TRUTH is that the whole conflict started because the UN forced the Israeli state in the 40s. If the US gov't decided to all of a sudden say "All native Americans will get their tribes' land back." You and your countrymen would be taking up arms and fighting for your land as well. The Arab/Israeli wars in the 60's and 70's were due to this and the land that Israel ILLEGALLY took resulted from those battles. Rather than give the land back as the Israelis have been warned to do hundreds of times over the decades, they built settlements instead.

Don't be so naive to think their are no such thing as Israeli terrorists either. They've existed for decades, but it doesn't suit the liberal agenda so they are rarely reported on.

I am not condoning the attacks on innocent people. But to sit their safely behind your keyboard and act like you know what it's like to literally lose everything only proves how arrogant and ignorant you are. Violent uprisings occur when people are oppressed. If you are too dumb to see cause and effect then you aren't smart enough to have an opinion on the matter.

We punished the Germans after World War I and the Nazi party developed as a result. We punished the Arabs for their connections to those Nazis by injecting a new state on the land they've lived on for hundreds of years and the result was a conflict that has spread throughout the middle east, created terrorist groups and eventually lead to the murder of 3,000 people on American soil.

Maybe rather than punishing an entire nation we should learn our lesson by now, because we only create a new generation of enemies for Israel and ourselves.

Let's not also forget that the whole land grab issue is based on the Jews' belief that Jerusalem belongs to them. Jerusalem wasn't even part of the original settlement plan, but that didn't stop them from using the old testament as justification to take it!

Anyone that continues to blindly and unconditionally support Israel is only making themselves part of the ongoing problem!!!

Lolly,

If Native Americans had bought land next to your house, would you feel the need to chase them out with a gun, the way Palestinians attacked Jewish settlements next to their villages, formed on the land that were not taken by force, but bought for cash?

Do you consider California and Texas the land seized ILLEGALLY by USA in the war against Mexico?

May be you should take your own advise and stop "sitting there safely behind your keyboard and act like you know everything".

Let's think about this another way....the Israeli government is today's version of the German Nazi's. The Palestinians "and I am only referring to those who are living peacefully - co-existing with other Israeli's" are being persecuted like the Jew's of WWII. Seems like Israel is exacting revenge and the settlements are their version of Auschwitz concentration camps!

She "assumed" her personal values and regard for life would be sufficient to stop the driver of the bulldozer...she died for that, and not being smart enough to get out of the way.

Legalized murder is alive and well in Israel? Where would they be without our billions of dollars we gift them each year?

Just yesterday an Israeli Jewish soldiers was crushed under a tank during a military exercise.

So are the hypocrite Corrie supporters going to tell us now that Israel deliberately caused the death or injury of that Jewish soldier as well?

When people move around large heavy vehicles with limited visibility, tragic accidents can happen.

It wasn't deliberate. It's just an unfortunate accident. Accidents happen.

If you're going to walk around in a WAR ZONE, try to stay away from large heavy effing vehicles that can crush you without even noticing you.

On the other hand Syria is deliberately killing thousands of innocent civilians right next door to Israel, but you don't see any Rachel Corries going over there to protest!

she's dead, you idiot.

The Court and Judge who authored the decision are an embarassment to the legal profession which I have been a member of for 30 plus years. First the decedent, Ms. Corries God bless her was apparantly not acting "reasonably" in the legal sense when she stood in front of a bulldozer. She was however, more than a foreseeable victim in the government enterprize under way and any Court in a civilized society recognizes its legal duty to protect all foreseeable victims of its actions including overzealous but golden hearted student activists like the victim here. Apparantly in Israel it is perfectly legal to put a serial killer at the wheel of a bulldozer to run down any enthusiastic children who might climb a fence...

I suppose you assh0les thinks that the kid in Tiananmen Square was an idiot who should have got out of the way too? This was army bulldozers breaking down and destroying the homes of civilians. I don't care if it was Israel and Palestine, North Korea and South Korea, or USA and Mexico, protesting was the right thing to do, and running the civilian protester over (and backing up to do it again) was the horrible, murderous thing to do.

You idiots taking partisan sides miss the point. This girl was peacefully protesting (a goddamn human shield isn't a violent protest) the persecution and destruction of a civilian population, and she was viciously murdered for it.

And you're defending the Israeli actions? That's just retarded. Quit reacting along your party lines and actually think about the situation. Idiots.

You think Israel would punish their soldiers? Like the sniper who intentionally kill 2 women with white flag and get 40 days in jail?

Muslim said "they are allowed to have 4 wives because times of war". Israel said "they are allowed to kill people because times of war". Excuses, excuses.

She wasn't murdered Travis.

She was walking around in a WAR ZONE next to a thirty ton D9 with thick bullet-proof glass, and a metal cage around the driver's compartment against RPG's.

She played terrorist hero around a heavy bulldozer, and she lost. It's a tragic accident.

Her parents should have raised her better, then maybe she wouldn't have been duped so easily by those Arabs in Gaza to place herself in front of a moving D9. You do notice that there are no Arabs anywhere near that D9, right. I wonder why...

Nice comments, dumb ass. I hope when your boys start WW3 , you are the 1st person drafted and the 1st person to get it.

This person deserves a nomination for the darwin award.

The Israeli driving the bulldozer should get a medal and an award for aiding the forces of natural selection.

Now she can't contribute her stupidity to the gene pool.

Let this be a lesson to those of you who knowingly choose to go into areas of turmoil, civil unrest, chaos &/or war, etc. & offering yourselves up as human shields!

Duqu, you're an idiot.

Notice the facts, she was part of a group forming a human shield (linking arms) to not allow the bulldozer to pass. They were visible, and making their point clear. They were protecting civilians, not terrorists. She wasn't "walking around" and it wasn't an accident, the operated made a choice to run over another human being who never posed an immediate threat to him. The definition of murder.

Her parents raised her to care for others and stand up for the innocent. Obviously the meth-head crack-whore that squeezed you out between her doping sessions didn't do a much better job.

Demoblat, you're just an idiot, I'm guessing that you side with the Chinese executing Nepalese monks as well?

There needs to be a US investigation not just Israel because it involved their military and a US citizen protected by international and US laws. You dont like our laws refuse to let US citizens into your country plain and simple. Those that oppose the courts ruling need to flood the US embassy with letters demanding an investigation.

Hey Travis,

If you're so sure that the bulldozer couldn't possibly run her over by accident, and that the driver would be able to see a person walking around a moving D9 like that...

Then I dare you to go to a construction site and start walking around the heavy trucks and D9's and let's see how long you'll stay alive...

Good luck!

:)

And that's not even in a WAR ZONE where the D9 had thick bullet-proof glass, and metal armor around the driver's compartment against RPG's which reduced his field of vision considerably.

If the driver saw her and yet drove - then this is an execution.

If the driver didnt see her - this is at least negligence.

In either case - the lawsuit shouldn't have been thrown out.

Duqu - for the love of god read the article. they were in a human shield, a line of people linking arms forming a wall. Unless the D9 is completely enclosed and the driver is operating by f@#$ radar, he saw the people. Reading comprehension should be a requirement prior to posting comments.

When it appears that a very large piece of equipment simply will not stop, an activist protestor has a choice to make; they either move out of the way or become a martyr to their cause.

During the protests in Tienanmen Square in China, a lone protestor stopped a line of by standing in front of them. In that case, the Commander of the Division chose to not run the protestor over. The protestor could have just as easily been shot or run over.

When you chose to be a martyr, there is a very real possibility that you may die. You have to decide if what you believe is worth dying for or if it is worth living for. In this case, the protestor apparently thought it was worth dying.

One ounce of sense and she could have lived to protest another day. What a shame.

Dirp,

Thanks for actually making a logical comment. I think we can agree that had the Commander of the Division in Tienanmen Square actively chosen to run over the lone protester, he would have been guilty of murder. Just like this Army Bulldozer operating is.

"Why should the Arabs make peace? If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been antisemitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance." David Ben-Gurion, first prime minister of Israel

Nope, nothing about a human chain anywhere:

"She was standing on top of a pile of earth," fellow activist and eyewitness Richard Purssell, from Brighton, U.K., said at the time, according to the Guardian. "The driver cannot have failed to see her. As the blade pushed the pile, the earth rose up. Rachel slid down the pile. It looks as if her foot got caught. The driver didn't slow down; he just ran over her. Then he reversed the bulldozer back over her again."

It does say before that, that she was a member of a group of activists, but no human-chain or a wall of people linking arms anywhere.

Of course the part about the driver definitely being able to see her, is just conjecture on the part of the witness, who wasn't exactly neutral in all this.

So are you going to take that bet?

Will you be walking around heavy trucks and D9's soon to prove that a driver in a D9 couldn't possibly run you over by accident. I'm sure you have nothing to worry about.

Good luck!

Still waiting for that quote about a human-chain, or wall of people linking arms.

What's the matter Travis?

Where did it say there was a wall of people linking arms, Travis?

What? You don't have anything?

Too bad...

demoblat, I'll say a prayer for you tonight. you obviously have some major issues, possibly self-hate, and you like to elevate yourself by denigrating others.

Really MUW? Really?

Are you chronologically or just mentally challenged? Who was the president of our country in 2003? I see your spam posts on other threads spewing the same non-sense. Please go back to Fox where lunatics like you get paid to copy and paste statements of hatred towards President Barack Obama. If he wins another 4 this November, will you please move out of the country with your buddy Lush Limpballs?

sleuth, why is it that the only things that are of any value are what you are posting?

Someone piss in your cereal this morning?

@ sleuth23, I was with you until you errantly shoved this posters belief system on Fox news. The people at Fox are more intelligent than that. Must be why they are the number 1 News channel in the country. More like it you should lay the blame on CNN or NBC, both are far closer to MUW in mentality than Fox.

Rachel Corries stood in front of a bulldozer during war time = dumb. We should base our support of Israel on the actions of a fool?

the bulldozer personnel had the "ability" and also an "obligation" to have seen that her daughter was in its path

Either this was a successful suicide attempt or a failed game of chicken, regardless, Rachel had the "ability" and "obligation" to get out of they way if she chose to!!

MRZ,

"Rachel had the "ability" and "obligation" to get out of they way if she chose to!! "

I agree. The problem is that she took responsibility for looking out for everyone but herself.

She should have kept herself at home. She had no business over in Israel. She had a choice and chose the wrong one. Waste of time and money taking this to court. She was definitely at fault not Israel.

I'm glad that there are people who believe in non-violence enough to risk their lives. But I'm glad she wasn't one of my kids.

@Mickey,

The problem is that she took responsibility for looking out for everyone but herself.

How is it the responsibility of an American form Olympia, Wa. to defend Palestinian homes? How about here responsibility to here family and friends? How many Palestinians also were cruhsed with her in her crusade? I don't think the Palestinians will being erecting any monuments anytime soon for a "clueless american martyr". IMO.

Long list of other idiots that deserved to die according to this boards logic

1. Jesus Christ: he should have been looking out for himself and not humanity. After all he knew the jews wanted him dead he could have saved himself and damned humanity.

2. Every cop that ever took a bullet: They knew the risk, they deserved to die for going into risky situations to help less fortunates from criminal actions.

3. The Secret Service Agent that took a bullet for Reagan: Dumb, should have died based on his line of work.

4. All armed forces personnel, Army, Marines, Airforce, Navy, Coastguard. Putting themselves in danger to help other.. according to Jewganda they all deserve to die, and furthermore be laughed at because they were stupid enough to put their lives on the line for justice and to free the oppressed.

5. The many aid workers and nuns that are executed annually around the world.. Yep they deserved to die for putting themselves out there for less fortunates.

To all the Zionist loving demons on this board, you will have to answer for your evil. Nobody lives forever, nobody lives forever.

MRZ,

"How is it the responsibility of an American form Olympia, Wa. to defend Palestinian homes?"

I did not say it was her responsibility. I said "she took responsibility". Whether it was hers to take is another matter altogether. If you look back at my post again you will find that I was agreeing with you.

Maybe MRZ could explain why it is the responsibility of American Taxpayers to defend Israel?

@Mickey,

I know you agreed with my post, I was just expanding on your comment and the term responsibility, no disrespect to you intended.

@Ophotfoot,

The same can be said for American tax dollars to Palestine. Seems kind of silly, doesn't it?

Preach on MUW. If Israelis are GOD's" chosen people", he will take care of them. GOD doesn't need our money or help. The BULLY on the playground always gets his ASS KICKED. IT IS JUST A MATTER OF TIME.

Ophotfoot, we don't need to protect Israel they do a fine job themselves or have you forgotten the dismal war the Arabs attempted got their butts kicked and lost the land they now want back

THERodney: Wow, you really are out of touch. I rest my case. You need to do lots of research. In war they will kill anyone. America can and does do the same. And please don't say it isn't a war zone, the culture of the area says it all.

Rachel Corrie is not one of ours. Ours would not be so stupid to stand in front of a bulldozer during war in support of suicidal maniacs. In Afghanistan there are quite a few of "ours" (as you put it) that were killed by US soldiers. Apparently this defect in human character that makes people support the most violent people around is widespread.

On second thought when you say one of ours you must mean the people who were born in the US with this deranged attitude that you share.

She was an ill informed Liberal that did not realize that the Israeli's mean business..She got exactly what she deserved. .If every ARAB would lay down his weapon, there would be NO MORE WAR. If every Israeli would lay down his weapon there would be NO MORE ISRAEL.

Israel has been at war with and stealing land from Muslim countries since it was created in 1947. And dragging the US into the fray with them all along the way. It's time for the US to cut Israel loose and let them make peace with their neighbors without our financial and military support.

And this lawsuit was about compensation for a wrongful death, $$$. You think Jews are going to admit, even in their legal system, that they're wrong and voluntarily hand over money? Good luck....

TheRodney - it is totally wrong for you to assume that all the courts in the world use the same rules the US has. The Judge was in Israel, not the US. Additionally, considering this woman actions were in support of Terrorists who are war with Israel, the parents were really stupid to have a lawsuit. Would you have felt the same had this woman been supporting the actions of Osama bin Laden? She choose to support Terrorists, she chose her death. It never ceases to amaze me there are people in this world who would become "an activist" and support bad people. All the while there will be those around "the activist" who will glorify his/her actions because he/she was "an activist." Sorry, you REALLY REALLY need to know EXACTLY who you are supporting BEFORE you take up their cause.

P.S. I bet we can assume you have never been on a bulldozer either.

I'm assuming Rachel was not alone when this happened (photographer?). What part of "Get the &%$# out of the way" did she not understand?

Jerick: Go back and study. Israelis did not "steal" anything. Jordan is the Palestinian's birthright.

willowbrook, so it's ok to run over peaceful protestors with a bulldozer, twice, if they don't agree with your politics? I bet we can assume you have never had a brain either.

She was sticking her nose in someone else's business, getting involved in a situation that she should not have gotten into. She knew the consequences of her actions could end fatally. Her family should have known also. How is getting blood money for their daughter's death going to bring her back? I side with the judge... stay out of war zones if you don't want to be killed!

This young, and regrettably stupid American woman was supporting enemies of both Israel, and the US, these poor downtrodden people are sworn to wipe the Israel off the face of the earth, and us with them. Last weekend, 7 rockets were fired from Palestinian positions into civilian areas of Israel. Suicide bombers blow up busloads of civilians. Why? Because they are muslims, who have no qualms about killing anyone not of their faith. As far as I am concerned, they, and anyone who actively supports them are expendable. She just learned the hard way, play with fire, and you get burned. They play for keeps over there, and she just didn't understand the rules.

Do Goldman is absolutely correct! Thank you for a great post!

It´s very sad that this young woman died.But she stood in front of a tractor in a war zone .Perhaps she had a martyr or self desructive urge.A tragedy all around, but I see no way that this was a deliberate murder by the Israeli military.The judges verdict was the right one.

@ markelpew - I put you on the ignore list long ago due to your inane comments. Looked today out of curiosity and you've learned nothing. You assume she was a peaceful protester. You assume she was in the right. You simply assume. And just so you know, I've run heavy equipment, she was stupid to think it was a good idea to use her body to stop a dozer. She trespassed into a restricted zone to protest and she paid the price with her life. It's not Israel's fault she died. And it is the height of arrogance TO ASSUME everyone runs their country according to American rules/social morals. Also, please refer to post 6.5.

Here's a thought the Jews were given the land in 48 they are not going anywhere get over it and work on your own state. To all you Jew haters have a nice day. Shalom

willowbrook operates heavy equipement................I should have known. I'll bet you live in a trailer also.

Actually, Marklepew, I have many talents, operating machinery is only one of them. (I aced my Masters Degree too, just so you know.) And I own property and a home. I prefer to live by the motto "knowledge is power," not "ignorance is bliss." Grow up.

I thought you had me on ignore willow? Are you a stalker?..............."knowledge is power" and judging by what you post you could almost power a single milliwatt bulb.

He saw her. He even said so.

You weren't there. Neither was I. Neither should she have been.

Jeanette - it was a human shield. people linking arms and such. It was visible. and you are stupid.

Some people need to learn that protesting in other countries is NOT like protesting here. A lot of middle eastern / eastern countries don't have the same value of life that we do. Add to that a different set of laws and you find yourself run over by a bulldozer. Here, the driver has to stop and wait for the police. Even if it's military, they have to remove her before they work. Obviously, the rules are different there. She might have been a "forward thinker", but she didn't bother to think about the difference between protesting there and in the US.

It's simply a different set of values and a different culture. She should have known better. Someone can't go to a different country and expect to be able to act the same and have the same rights. Life isn't as valuable there as it is here. Obviously, if someone's driving a bulldozer toward you... move!

Just one more reason to "Reject" further Monetary Support of Israel......The Murder of Rachel Corrie!

Sometimes you just got to let Them All go at it on their own......We have NO Business Support ANYBODY but Ourselves and let the Jericho's fall where they may!

Speaking of Rejection.....America This Endless US Support of Israel no matter what or why is just One More Reason To Refuse To Re-Elect ANY Of Wall Streets Incumbents Not Even Bailout Barry the HERO of Goldman Sachs & Al-Qaeda in Syria.

Enough is enough let US take care of our own for once!

Travis, if people were linking arms then why was she the only one hit? BTW name calling is against the Honor Code grow up

MUW

What does Wall Street incumbents have to do with support of Israel? Israel is supported by members of Congress, specifially neoconservatives. And if your referring to Obama, it wasn't his bailout plan, that belongs to Bush and his administration. I don't think Al-Quada considers Obama a hero in any country. Just add up how many of their leaders he has taken out. Get your facts right, and stop making crazy stuff up!

Wlee, while I don't question her motives, I'm pretty sure everyone in the human shield would have tried to avoid being hit as it became apparent the driver wasn't going to stop. The article stated she got her foot caught, and the driver willfully ran her over, backed up, and did it again. The name-calling is uncalled for, but I'm pretty sure the Honor Code says we need to stay on topic, which means actually reading the article and responding the facts therein, not making up bullcrap in the comments section.

The article clearly states she was part of a human shield. She got her foot stuck and could get away. She was run over. The driver than backed up and ran her over again.

None of these facts were disputed in the case, all were acknowledged. Don't try to revise history.

Travis not revising anything, an activist stated he saw her standing in front of a house under demolition no mention of others.

the compassion shown by the right wingers posting here is typical. I can see they will treat people who disagree with them with that same "christian compassion"

Then again, a comment like yours that stinks is to be expected with one that shares their last name with a famous cartoon skunk, is it not? Oh, and by the way, he would be much more honorable and sensible of a creature than you will ever be, you sub-protozoa.

Truth Teller, I'm pretty sure you comment kinda proved mark's point. Also, commonsense... if you had ever decided to care for anyone but yourself, you might realize what a monstrously horrible comment you made and how it makes you seem like a psychotic who should be locked away without ever seeing the light of day again. However, since, as your name implies, you lack the most basic common sense (including a sense of human decency), I'll just be content to ask you to kindly burn in hell.

If she's so concerned about people, why travel 7,000 miles away when there's so much to do in our own back yards? How about helping inner city children? Or, Appalachia's poor? or the Gulf coast? So much need right here at home. Charity begins at home.

For all we know Rachel Corrie WAS active in her home region. I'm not saying she was, just saying I don't know she wasn't. What I do know was that in her public efforts she was trying to help the wrong people by protesting the wrong people. What I mean is that her ostensible goal, to help innocent Palestinians, had the actual effect of helping Palestinian terrorists. It's a shame she engaged in activities which caused her own death, but that was her choice. I think she could have done much more to help Palestinian civilians by protesting against Palestinian terrorism.

I don't know what radicalized her, but whatever it is--parents, professors, religious leaders--did her no favors. Too bad for her, and for the world really, that she didn't take a different route, like helping innocent people on both sides. She, instead, choose to become an ally of Palestinians, a group of people who have chosen for decades to suffer immense privation rather than simply agree to stop killing jews.

Radicalized her... what an idiot. She was part of a non-violent protest, a human shield. She wasn't attacking, and she posed no physical threat whatsoever. You sir, are an idiot.

She was protesting Israeli terrorism, which, while I agree protesting Palestinian terrorism is a worth effort, the same can be said for Israeli terrorism.

Your prejudices skew your logic.

In warfare, there is a sword and a shield. Travis just proved the point that she was part of the war by being the shield. Ultimately, she was another dumb Liberal hippy protestor who thought that they could put their bodies in the way of a tank and think that they could stop the sword of a lawful action by the Israeli people seeking to remove invaders (and no, Israel has a lawful claim to the land).

Jake,

you're an idiot. there were not RPG wielding guerillas behind her waiting to attack. There were innocent civilians. Sword of lawful action, what a joke. They have no goddamn claim to the land, the land was stolen and given to them. Even if they claim to have the right, terrorizing civilians is not the way to do it.

I'll try to keep this in mind the next time Mexicans and Native Americans try to run the white people out of the the USA. Why don't you stand in front of a Mexican bulldozer and let it run over you. F@#$ you.

marklepew not everyone left or right who is white is a Christian, so stop with the asinine generalizations, as far as disagreeing with ones views just take a look in the mirror for one sightedness. Travis ,whats with all the Idiot comments, make your point and cease with the insults. BTW do you even know why they bulldoze homes?

wlee,

I never mentioned being "white" as a prerequisite for being a conservative christian. You brought that to the table. It is pretty safe to think the demographics adequately display that conservatives are christian, since they proclaim it proudly, and that they certainly express their "compassion" adamantly when encouraging foreign invasions, death penalties, ending programs for the disadvantaged, eliminating women's choice over their reproductive health and all the other small government initiatives that they seem so fond of.

marklepew, so all Liberals are closed minded, see how silly that sounds, not all conservatives are Christians, a mind is a terrible thing to waste, but keep generalizing it really helps your cause

Hey Travis,

How would you know my prejudices without knowing anything about me? You are a funny person. I mean, whoever you disagree with, in your own words, is an "idiot". Simply too funny given you are so riled up about prejudices.

Frankly, Rachel was radicalized, but being radicalized doesn't mean that one must begin to use violence. It simply means she holds radical ideas. Like the idea that Palestinian supporters of terrorism need to be protected. It's a valid position to hold, but one I disagree with. Even international law doesn't support Rachel Corrie's positions. What I would hope everyone, even you, could take from this debate is that both sides have done wrong, but one side far more than the other has a lawful right to protect its people from the provocations of the other.

I know that many people support Palestinians in their cause, or at least oppose Israel in their own cause. But if you decide to become a part of the dispute, and to participate in the confrontation as an advocate for the side without legal authority to act as they do, and in that process you are killed because of your own actions, then a claim of murder is a long stretch to make. Should Rachel have gone and protested? Not my call, it was hers. Should she have held her ground in the face of a bulldozer? Not my call, it was hers. But after doing both things, and dying for them, it is pathetic to then claim anyone BUT Rachel Corrie is to blame.

It isn't as if she was targeted. It isn't as if she and others weren't warned to leave. It isn't as if her death came because of the swiftness of the bulldozer, so swift she could not respond. She was a believer in her cause, but she wasn't a very wise woman, and it cost her her life.

Rich, well put!

Note the key term of the witness is that the witness was a "fellow activist." It does call into question the objectivity of this witness. Even more so when you consider what these activists were doing to support suicidal homicidal maniacs.

Wait, are you saying that the Israeli army bulldozer operator who ran over, backed up and re-ran over a human being who was part of a peaceful protest are the homicidal maniacs? Because... I just read the story again, and I didn't see to many other viable options. Moron.

Stop Palestinian terror. Stop Hamas terror. Stop Hezbollah terror. Stop Islamist terror. Stop Muslim terror. Stop Arab terror.

Uh, you can walk as fast as the bulldozer dozes earth. If you aren't smart enough to move, and you think 30 tons of steel will do no damage to your body, then aren't you the one to blame for being run over by such a slow moving beast? This story reminds me of one in California many years ago now--it was the 80s and the USA was sending materiel south of the border to kill leftists.

Anyhow, while in college one of my professors--a course in terrorism--asked the class about a protestor who sat on the railroad tracks while the Navy armament train approached. It was at a very slow rate of speed, and could be observed for, oh I don't know, a minute or two, bearing down on the protestor. He wouldn't move. His legs were cut off in the ensuing tangle--um, DUH. One of my classmates said what most everyone was thinking--the protestor was an idiot for not getting up.

To which the professor said he, the now disabled protestor, was a very close friend of hers. LMAO! I turned around and whispered it might just now be a good time to withdraw from the course. The point is, let's be honest, Rachel Corrie was WILLING to die for her cause. I think her cause is wrong, but her life was her's to live how she wanted. It was also her's to die how she wanted. Rachel is responsible, and no one else on earth is, for her own death. Condolences, regardless, to her family. I'm sure they loved her immensely, and miss her as much.

I forgot...as an aside, don't let your antipathy for Israel and/or Israelis cloud your use of reason and logic, and so cloud your conclusions about right and wrong. It's a very bad way to decide who or what to support, and why.

Exactly. Stay home. Other countries don't care how we do things in good ole' USA. They will say she was killed because she shouldn't have been there in the first place. That's how they treat foreigners.

I wished we had stayed home rather than invade foreign countries like Iraqi, by some of the posters logic every service person killed in foreign countries "got what they deserved".

Like in Germany, maybe, we should have stayed at home and this would have not happened. Our aid has built many illegal homes that we have told Israel not to build.

The lesson to be learned is that stupid and stubborn will get you killed

So are you going to execute yourself or are you going to jump in front of a truck for us?

Travis, I don't know how you are still on this vine as you don't know how to debate without insulting other people

god bless you

The real terrorists are the Israelis.... They want to take over land that doesnt belong to them so they can prosper. Read the facts people. They are bullies of the Mid East. This poor girl had to die a harsh death and look at their reaction, no compassion, not even a sorry. And this girl is a white, american citizen, a citizen of a country who pays Israel loads of our tax money to. Atleast an apology would be nice, but you can def see their arrogance.

Mitchell - SHE saw the bulldozer coming, and chose not to move. Darwin Award winner right there.

Lemme know when Israel sends suicide bombers into Palestine and blows up women and children. til then, your terrorist comment is moronic.

But the driver said he saw her

He saw her, and they were in a HUMAN F@#$$% SHIELD - as in, A LINE OF PEOPLE LINKED ARM TO ARM. There's no F@#$% way "he didn't see her" is an excuse, also, that excuse wasn't damn well used in this court. They just said, she shouldn't have been there. Dumbasses trying to defend outright murder.

Don't get me wrong. Given where she was, the state of war time, the fact it was an ARMY bulldozer, young American woman, etc., In my opinion the driver knew she was there and murdered her.

But where in the above article does it state that the Driver HIMSELF said he saw her? Is there another article i missed? A fellow ACTIVIST SAYS that the driver HAD to have seen her. The driver didn't say anything. The U.K.'s Guardian newspaper reported <= The Judge here reports the driver said he DIDNT see her. Which again isn't suprising.

In response to Travis, She was not linked together with other people. She was alone on top of a "mound" of dirt apparently. The article states she and other activists were ACTING as human shields. That doesnt mean they were linked together in a line. Again unless i missed another article. Where does it state that?

My heart goes out to the family of this tragedy.

Travis - she was a moron, as were the others who were there.

Hell,

Right, because standing up for the persecution and destruction of civilian homes is just a terrible thing to do.

Nate, she was in a human shield, read the article again. She happened to be at a high point in the human shield. I'm not saying that the shield wasn't broken as the dozer got closer, but even in the best case scenario, the driver knew that there were people in his direct path, and decided to play chicken with them. That's still murder if they don't pose an immediate threat to you.

The U.K.'s Guardian newspaper reported that Corrie was with a group of international activists acting as human shields against the demolition of Palestinian houses.

"She was standing on top of a pile of earth," fellow activist and eyewitness Richard Purssell, from Brighton, U.K., said at the time, according to the Guardian.

Quote the line where it says she was in a human shield line. The first quote says she "was with a group of international activists acting as human shields against the demolition of Palestinian houses."

From that, you can't infer she was in a line of people. SHE was standing on top of a pile of dirt. Seems like she was alone. The picture shows her alone with a megaphone. Again hard to know EXACTLY what happened. Only person who really knows are the people who were there and the driver of the bulldozer.

I DO think the driver saw her and did roll her over.

Thes self serving kangaroo court decisions should not be valid, there should be a world court as this is a war scenario ,the court said, then the israelis are guilty of a war crime.

This is way worse than the tianamin square in China.

the jews dont believe in hell so we should make them pay in this life.. Cut off all aide to the murderers

The closest thing available to world-court is UN, that one gives everyone a good laugh.

As for the aid, it's provided not by world commission, but US alone, and here in US most of us feel like Israelis are not the murderers and there is nothing wrong with sending them aid.

If you don't like it, feel free to move to another country where majority agrees with you.

A shame she couldn't have cared more for people here in the USA. There are plenty of places to help. Hospitals, day care centers, food banks, soup kitchens. But no, her parents probably paid for her flight and thought "How cute is she in her new head scarf".

No, she wasn't. What do you think will happen when you stand in front of a bulldozer? They can't see you. Common sense.

This woman did put her own life at risk by going over there in the first place, and she should have gotten the heck out of the way as soon as she saw the bulldozer wasn't planning on stopping.

However, it does make you question the bulldozer driver - he backed over her to finish the job. And if they have protesters in the area, the military should have removed them before starting the bulldozing. Please don't tell my that the military couldn't handle a 23-year-old woman?

Yes, there are many terrorist muslims and Palestinians have committed violence. This does NOT excuse the violence committed by Israel. This does NOT excuse Israel for bulldozing people's homes and leaving them homeless.

Do you know that in Israel it is illegal for a Jew to marry a non-Jew? Do you see those laws in western countries? I was told once by a Jewish girl in Israel that if I converted and married a Jew, I still wouldn't be considered a REAL Jew. Those kinds of views and laws are fascist.

Umm, did you not see that she had a freakin MEGAPHONE there???? Im sure the entire country could hear her scream out in protest and I am sure the bulldozer driver ran her over in purpose. Running her over and back again. Wow people, wake the hell up!!!!

SHE WAS IN A F@#$$ HUMAN SHIELD LINE. That is pretty damn visible. Quit using this bullsh!t excuse, no one else is. They didn't even try to say the operator didn't see her. Stop with the retarded idiotic fake excuses!

mb- I bet you're ok with Muslims, eh? Try reading the Qu'ran and see what it says to do to ANY unbeliever....

Hellscream, what the hell does what the Qu'ran have to do with Israeli Army murdering American citizens? Stay on topic!

He is comparing.

The noise made over a a terrorist-supporter getting herself killed in an idiotic accident seriously outshines the noise made over a helpless girl in jail for burning apiece of paper or, dozens of honor-killings, or for example, another pro-Palestinian deliberately killed by Palestinians (paradox was not even appreciated).

She just wan't thinking, is that it?

Pretty much.

So you have the audacity in the attempt to make me believe that some 23 year old American girl was just too much for the Israeli army to handle - is that it?

Seems as though she not only handled but the recipient of the Darwin award.

Next question.

or "Is that it?

THERodney: "Our government goes to extremes in protecting American lives" really? You forgot Waco, Ruby Ridge, Kent State, and countless other incidents where AMERICAN's were killed right here at home. We are at war right now and AMERICAN men and women are dying over WHAT? I am not saying what happened to here was right. But please. "That's what we are about?" Seriously?

She chose to be an activist and she chose to go to a war zone AND she "stood up" for what she believed in knowing full well there was a bulldozer there. Her choice. None of the children at Waco had a choice. No one at Kent State expected to be shot. Seriously, you need to get real. How many countries have WE invaded and killed their civilians? We didn't pay for that. Why should Isreal pay, because she was an American? Why do Americans think they are entitled? We didn't pay the Vietnamese civilians any money in VietNam, even in Me Lei. Do some research take some American History classes.

She felt she could make a difference

And, other than getting a few Americans riled enough to write letters to the editor via the web, she made no difference. Unless being a poster girl for a few months after it happened, and maybe again now makes a difference.

She was a dumbass that put herself in harms way and got her ass handed to her for it.

She's entitled to the same sympathy a suicide bomber gives its victims.

what makes her a hero? i see an idiot standing in frony of a bulldozer.

I see a idiot who needs to use spell check (frony ?)

Its because men and women throughout the history of this country stood for something and payed the ultimate price who others also at one time considered "IDIOTS" that you enjoy the freedom and rights that you do today........

Im am alarmed by the responses on here that lack any amount of compassion. What have we become? What kind of people say that an idealistic girl got what she had coming to her? Do we have no soul? This girl was trying to stand up for what she felt was a human rights issue and was slain by the Israeli army. She made the mistake of thinking that they would have any regard for her life and as a result lost it. I am saddened by this for her and her family and offended that it was essentially condoned by a court of law in Isreal, a country that will continually financially support. That is what you should condeming, not a girl who stood up against what she felt was wrong. For those of you who continually write hateful things on these types of posts, you need to take a hard look at yourself.

You are not a person with compassion, at least not here. You are a person with passion, laced with ignorance, bias, a holier-than-thou complex and more than a small measure of mistrust and disdain for the state of Israel I suspect. So please don't try to be objective, factual and matter of fact about an issue you "clearly" see thru a very murky lens. This poor girl's idealism and naive good intentions did not deserve the sad fate she received. Her greatest contribution here is showing the Arabs that all white/Americans are not so Satanic and evil. I'm sure their teachers, parents and society take this with a bitter grain of salt and wished it had been one of them who was "martyred" in one of their suicide/murder bombings.

Your use of words in your statement shows you took glee in being able to use the incident(years after the heated and passionate time the event took place)to snipe at the entire state of Israel and I'm sure by extension all it's citizens and people everywhere of that ethnic ilk. The girl was not "slain" by the Israeli army. One person was driving that machine, under much stress I guess, whose safety was in danger at any time and had a job to do. He probably had no intention of hurting her despite his contempt and disgust at her misguided and misinformed "heroic" action. How could anyone say he backed up and ran her over again when this cannot be certain. Who was there and inside that guy's head. I responded to your comment more by chance than selection. Yours did at least have an air of civility and desire for justice and at least was not overtly moronic and hate-ridden like so many other predictable comments.

And God helps us, they're going to drag us into WWIII because of the morons in charge of The World decided to settle a bunch of European refugees in an area already populated by people who had lived in those lands for thousands of years.

Oh but the Bible, which those people living on that stolen land do not believe in, says it's ok. If it's in the Bible, it must be true, huh? And we wonder why the Palestinians hate Isreal. Reminds me of Custer's Last Stand where Custer and his troops deserved what they got.

squaredude, before calling someone an idiot for an accidental key punch, try using proper grammar. It's an idiot not a idiot. BTW, you forgot the Honor Code, wherefore art thou Sally?

THERodney: Maybe you chose to stand in front of the bulldozer, and since that was your choice and they chose to run you over anyway. Apparently you don't understand WAR. Apparently she didn't either. Why would he stop because she wanted him to do so? Who is she to him?

THAT IS SAD. A lot of 23 year olds don't get it. They glamorize activism because they don't really understand they are entering a WAR ZONE. AND you are not in AMERICA anymore. REALITY PLEASE.

I hear young people say all the time, I want to join the armed forces and kick butt. Apparently they play too many video games and watch to much TV. WAR is for real. If you want to sign up, fine, but GET REAL. The enemy shoots back.

She clearly did not understand the culture of the area or the reality of what she was getting into. I doubt she had even traveled to other countries much. Many activists think they know what they are getting into, but fng's they don't. Get educated, research, know what you are really getting into. Talk to people who have been there. This is not a GAME. YOU WILL NOT RESPAWN.

Besides, at the time she was hit, she was sitting in front of the bulldozer.

TheRodney, why were the homes being demolished?

WORD!

lORD fOXDRAKE 360, The israrlis are not animaslExcept in the strictest sense that they are mostly mamals, not plants and therefore ARE animals not mineral or vegetable. I believe that it would be true to state that most citizens of israel believe (more or less) in the torah. The torah states that to get and KEEP the "promised land" they had to do three things: 1) Invade the territory; 2) Commit genocide; & 3) Obey all of the commandments in the torah(not just the Big 10. Actually that lone god out of the many worshipped by the ancient Hebrews didn't command genocide, just to kill all of the men, women children, cattle and flocks but to spare the olive trees. IMO killing ALL the inhabitants is genocide, but evidently as shown in these posts; to supporters of that policy regarding Palestinians it evidently is something quite different as long as the olive orchards are spared.

What is ALWAYS ignored is that there is NO action, no matter how barbaric, inhumane or cruel that is unconstitutional in Israel if taken against Palestinians. Mass murder of Palestinians in a celebratory manner at a party?: Not unconstitutional if the victems are only Palestinians! Let's ALL keep supporting Israel and keep borrowing money from China to give to Israel to kill whomever they wish

Who are these "senior US officials" that makes their words worth anything. Without clarifying what senior is you are talking about a group of probably a few thousand people who can be classified as senior, so it really does not mean much.

If most of us were like her, radical Islam would rule this earth and all infidels would be put to the sword. How many Islamic country's are there that you can name that human rights are respected. At best treating non muslims as dimmhis subject to additional taxes and islamic religious restrictions is still not respecting others human rights.

Ken Miller have you heard of snipers, why do you think they were in armored bulldozers

Why don't you join her in a grave by jumping in front of a bulldozer. This way you can truly show how much she represents all the things you believe in.

She sure doesn't represent me. Right now is the time to stay on U.S. soil and help my neighbors and community.

The Palestinians are the criminal gypsies of the mid-east...liars cheats and murders. For you over educated liberal zombies that will not do your research before spewing your liberal anti-Jewish agenda (like the Nazis of WWII) I will educate you on the Palestinians. The Palestinian people use to live in Jordan. They were such a criminal activity problem for the Jordanians, their Muslims brothers killed them in large numbers and ran them out of Jordan. Hmmm... does this sound familiar? If you read the book "A Case for Israel" you will be informed on what Israel has done historically to fix that situation since 1948. But then again the facts will not bring forward the liberal agenda. The facts will be meaningless to the Liberal zombies.

So, say you had a piece of land. And someone showed up and put their house up in a faraway corner of it. You discovered it. You wouldn't want to get it off your land?

YOU don't tell other countries what to do with THEIR land. You can not like it if you wish, and that's fine and your right. But when you're in another country, you don't have our rights and laws covering you anymore - you have whatever THEY have. failure to realize that, can cost you, bigtime.

TheRodney tell that to the relatives of the handicapped person thrown off the Achilles Lauro or the American soldier that was brutalized then killed and thrown on the tarmac

--problem with this article and the comments is that people are not only considering this article and the actions around it. they are considering the recent wars, ancient history, recent history, etc. a lot or racisim, religious intolerance, etc,

-- the people commenting here are fighting a war, a war of words, a war of brain washing, propaganda, etc.

--it was wrong to run her over with the bull dozer. seems obvious to me that israel has always had an attitude like that. i have accepted it. i do not agree with it, but so far it is the only method that seems to work.

--no country in the world wanted nor wants all those jews, where are they to go. but then again should every religious group get a piece of the middle east. their own country. mormans, baptists, catholics, muslims, etc, etc,

--israel needs to be held acountable for its actions and stop killing people,stop stealing land, stop occupying land, stop building settlements on occupied land, stop executing suspected terroists-and everyone in the building-ooops he was not home, stop killing syran scientists-anyone they do not like in any country, kidnapping people in any country, stop killing un observors, activists, etc, etc, they kill a lof of people

-- so the strongest, most powerful country can just do like israel and eventually wipe out everyone else. start a war, start killing and taking land etc., i guess we will not have to worry about it when china starts eventully building in israel

Steven,

Perhaps Palestinians and Arab states could stop shooting rockets at Israel, stop blowing themselves up in Israeli buses, hotel and restaurants, stop killing Israelis all over the world, stop throwing rocks at Israeli cars, stop slitting throats of Israeli babies, stop setting lynching mobs at Israeli border, stop kidnapping Israelis, stop trying to destroy Israel.

When all that happens, Israel will be happy to follow your instructions.

Chris: Thank you, how quickly these people forget.

Chris and Shelly it is clear both of you have no clue what is happening in the real world, you both probably have never left your little hick towns. You are both promoting blind terrorism much like Osama Bin Landen.

LA: You are funny. I have been all over the world. I am a retired vet. I worked anti-terrorism for over 20 years. YOUR IGNORANCE IS SHOWING. I was there right after 9-11. WHERE WERE YOU?

LA by they way do you know how big Portland is? Hicktown. FUNNY!!!

Saw the other article today about in Pakistan how some 13 year old christian girl was arrested for blasphemy in pakistan. The family claims she is mentally retarded, but regardless, she allegedly burned some pages from a book containing muslim scripture. After hearing about the blasphemy a large group of enraged people went to the police station to demand they hand her over so they can burn her alive. "Lucky" for her the police kept her in protective custody. Extremist islam is very intolerant and violent and could care less about life.

Matt: yeah because they are such non-violent people, too. Gotta understand the culture, just sayin'

do you know how big Portland is? Hicktown. FUNNY!!!

I do. It may be big, but it is still a hick town. Don't like it? Move away. We are all hicks here in Oregon.

Baja5B Now your ignorance is showing. I like Oregon fine. If you want to classify yourself as a hick, knock yourself out. You want to jump into the conversation between me and LA at least figure out what we are discussing.

Baja5B: And if YOU want to classify yourself as a hick that is fine, but don't stereotype all Oregonians the way you stereotype all groups. STEREOTYPE, look it up.

In one of your responses you mention the "kids had no choice" Waco. Well it was an awful why to die, but their ignorant parents put them in harms way. So what do you think about the kids at the day cares in OKC Federal Building bombing?

Wow, azhaq, you really need to do some research. Do you have any idea how many American's are in prisoned in other countries (without cause) and the US does NOTHING to free them? How many AMERICAN children are held in other countries (illegally by non-custodial parents) and AMERICA does nothing to get them back? How many AMERICANS are held captive by kidnappers and NO ONE does anything to bring them home. REALLY? Where have you been? Once you leave America, you are on your own. You better figure that out. Even here you aren't fully protected. Wow, seriously. Feel free to research it. Other countries aren't any better. It just isn't that way. Only on TV.

"ditto" Shelly,....this kind of stuff happens when you attempt to do things OUTSIDE of your chain of command, regardless WHO you are. Being a LOUD activist can really stirr up trouble and as this proves can also get you killed.

When you choose to go to a war zone, you put yourself in danger of being killed. Protesting there is not the same as protesting in the US. It is fine to have high morals and ideals, but knowing the history of Israel and Palestine, it is really not very smart to think that you will be welcomed with open arms, especially when you are dressed the way you are, like one of the enemy.

The family didn't "loose" her. She chose to go, put on the head gear, and meddle in something that was not hers to meddle in. She was a selfish woman.

@ SF DAD,

Tell that to Daniel Pearl.

Signed,

SF SON

I'm sorry, but when you are in another country, you have to follow their rules and laws, and you don't get the same "due process" as in the USA.

Fine Ssalex but when someone whos agenda or beliefs you agree with gets run over repeatedly by a bulldozer operator who stated he saw here there peacefully protesting them being on land they did not own I hope you have the same opinion. Maybe it could be your wife or mom or daughter defending your family land and they could get repeatedly ran over. Would you feel the same way? Do you want to support one country that thinks it is ok to bulldoze a human for defending someones land they are stealing?

That's a fair and just decision. If she was willfully opposing the orders of an armed force, whether here or ESPECIALLY in another country, then she was subject to removal by force. If she was ignorant enough to lay herself down in front of a bulldozer manned by armed troops, then she deserved what she got.

Notice she fell quite a bit short of "martyr" but that she died in obscurity; she must not have wanted to live.

Warren Levine,

Same exact logic was used in WWII by Hitler.

Ophotfoot: You are way out of context. You have to look at the whole picture. Apples and oranges. You don't get the context. And trust me I know the history.

Baja, Portland a hick town, don't get out much do you

This just in: Other countries could give a s*** less about what Americans think outside their borders. And now here's Bob with the weather....

I use to be very pro Israel. However, they are not seeking peace, they are antagonistic to the peace process and by the action taken against this activists our of control and other aggressive actions. It is the same mentality that the Nazi's used on them, the Poles, the Russians, the Romanians and other states and ethnic groups in World War II. They expect the world to understand their victimization in WWII and yet propagate the same inhumanity on the rest of the world. Israel killed a person over building a house. They see no other way but death. There are six million Jews in Israel, six million in the United States, and six million in the rest of the world. They are the minority in the Jewish world. I hope the Jewish population in Israel and the rest of the world condemn these actions and get a government that seeks peace and learns the lessons of WWII and does not propagate such inhumanity to man. This woman was killed to build a house. Think about it!

No, observer...the woman was killed because she sat down in front of a bulldozer.

Cassandra, I think it was the poet E. E. Cummings who said something along this line: You can teach a person to think and reason but you cannot teach them to feel. This is a perfect description of the Nazi's during WW2 and it's a perfect description of you.