Fair enough.

I'll tell you what. When we meet on this battlefield, I'll be the one carrying massive amounts of technically-advanced weaponry ... drones, satellite-imaging, scopes, night vision, Kevlar, laser-guided munitions, etc. (you know, things that have come about through science, research and development.)

You, on the otherhand ... you get to bring your god. Hell, you can bring ALL man's gods if you'd like. Make sure you come with those hands clenched tight and those holy books clutched hard.

Who's going to win this battle?

I'm pretty sure we are on the same team dude! Last time I checked, I too was a member of the country that will be carrying this "massive amount of technically advanced weaponry" onto the battlefield. I will be there in the name of God and will be fighting beside you though not too close lest you be struck by a bit of lightning..lol.

"Same team"?

I'm on the team of reason, science and logic.

Last time I checked, "the party of god" mostly forfeits these attributes ... that was my whole point.

As an atheist, give me one black-op Apache and I'll go to battle with a billion religious zealots carrying books and prayers who think they have an invisible man on their side.

I'm not trying to make a point about being violent, just pointing out how silly it is to believe a magic man lives in the sky and intervenes in human affairs.

Chad and Troy : man have tested their power against God for many centuries but God have always won no matter what!

Fighting God is a suicide mission.

I wish both of you luck!

:)

Okay Maxeemas.

I'll see you on this same battlefield with Troy ... you can both pray and kneel to the god of your choice and ask for protection. Don't mind this laser-guided missile headed in that general direction, I'm sure god will make it miss.*

*Please note this is a hypothetical discussion. I feel rather foolish talking about violence, but the point is lucid.

Okay Chad, That day is coming... whatever you say now.. fine with me, some people always have to learn the hard way!

Really dude? While I love a good argument and enjoy the occasional devils advocate you can't possibly believe any of that nonsense. At any rate I can promise you that I would not come to the battlefield with nothing but the bible to protect me. I would come to the battlefield with the same weaponry you describe but would use it in the name of god and only when provoked....hmm, yeah, that pretty much sounds like the good ol U.S. of A.

I would not come to the battlefield with nothing but the bible to protect me.

Ohh, so when it comes to life or death situations, reality suddenly becomes more important, eh?

Funny, you have an all-powerful, omnipresent, omniscient being on your side ... yet you still prefer Earthly mechanisms to protect you. So much for "faith" I guess :)

I have faith. And would gladly go to hell for murder to defend the rest of my brothers and sisters.

I have faith.

Than why would you need manmade weapons to defeat heathens like me ... would an all-powerful god not be "powerful" enough?

And would gladly go to hell for murder to defend the rest of my brothers and sisters.

How is this relevant to what we've been discussing? Have you finally realized my point, and how irrational yours is when you get down to brass-tax reality, and are now side-tracking the discussion?

It's the same thing when I hear religious zealots attack evolution. Funny thing is, when these same people get sick, you can bet your ass they seek a doctor first and a preacher last.

Odd you guys can't be honest with yourselves ... isn't lying a sin?

There you are. Thought I lost you. I was having fun....12 year old and all...

Is it so hard to believe that one could believe in god and contribute to the understanding of the universe? I'll get down to brass tacks with you. Look around you snot nose. The only reason you have your "laser guided" bombs is because of the men of faith that walked before you. The children of Abraham have brought the current understanding of the universe and all of these technologies you covet to you. It is because of God's children that you posses the means to defend yourself against the hordes of heathens that roam this earth at all.

Gotta go home but pick up in an hour or so?

Other than a misunderstanding on the status of Jesus. Jesus was after all a Jew and never renounced being a Jew, the same on the part of the disciples. Christens and Jews are of the same faith, we are all “JEWS”.

Agreed. Much apologies for that mis statement. I mispoke. I'm in the middle of being schooled by an athiest who is helping undertand that "evolution" is what has really brought mankind about right now..

find out for yourself, what hell will be like

Honestly, you. The way you think ... the poison that grips your very psyche.

That's my definition of hell.

Thank god he created me an atheist.

Sounds like you are in your own little hell Chad.

Why, because I don't believe in yours?

Are you twelve?

Jesus is believed to come back and the truth will be revealed up on his return.

Jews and atheist and all none believers will have a real sad day for them when Jesus comes back! laugh now, enjoy the time you have now... seriously! please dont waste any good time of it because it all will trurn to hell for you.

Maxeemas, you lost me with your Jew comment. You can roast Chad the Atheist all you want but leave the Jews alone.

And no Chad, I am far older than 12.....far older. You on the other hand sound like a young guy who doesn't really believe in anything much more than what you can see with your eyes only and hasn't walked on this earth long enough to realize it. One must first understand that he walks blindly if ever he is to see.

Actually, since you revealed in a previous post that you do not believe in violence, you are more probably also a man of many faces and a forked tounge. On the surface, it kind of sounds like you are still searching for some purpose...

I'm sure you will have some witty jitterbug response to this but hopefully something sinks in for you. Otherwise we can go back to tit for tat bible-lazer war talk if you like..lol. It is kind of fun.

You can roast Chad the Atheist all you want

What a Christian thing to say.

You on the other hand sound like a young guy who doesn't really believe in anything much more than what you can see with your eyes

I believe in gravity .... but I can't see it. So why believe? It's called evidence.

Not that you would understand that. There's no evidence you can provide people to make them understand they should value evidence ... when they don't value evidence.

Actually, since you revealed in a previous post that you do not believe in violence

I never said I didn't "believe" in violence, I just didn't want you to think I was making real threats or speaking about real confrontation. As I said, the battlefield analogy is silly, but the point it raises is lucid.

I'm not a pacifist, it's just that internet conversations and talk of violence are best left to people that don't have real substance behind their words.

On the surface, it kind of sounds like you are still searching for some purpose

Of course I am. I always will be. That's a feature, not a bug.

It's the people that get caught up in ancient myths and superstition (who feel they've already completed a journey towards true revelation) that are blinded by preconceived notions of truth.

One must first understand that he walks blindly if ever he is to see.

See above

I'm sure you will have some witty jitterbug response

Do you find me witty?

hopefully something sinks in for you

Hopefully. But surely not your religion or your god my friend. These are trivial matters and trivial things. If we were having this conversation in Iran, it would be a different god and a different revelation.

These matters aren't for a thinking person to take seriously.

Troy1101 : if the Jews dont believe in Jesus! what do you expect from Jesus to do? or how should Jesus deal with hem?

The Jews will see Jesus on his return and know that he is the messiah....

Though I don't know...Chad is converting me. I am starting to think I should worship gravity or laser guided bombs or something like that....Chad should be able to help you with that.

Chad,

In case you didn't get my reply earlier, since you didn't answer I assume your mom was done cooking your dinner and you had to go eat and put the clothes away she washed, dried and folded and put by your door...

There you are. Thought I lost you. I was having fun....12 year old and all...

Is it so hard to believe that one could believe in god and contribute to the understanding of the universe? I'll get down to brass tacks with you. Look around you little snot nose. The only reason you have your "laser guided" bombs is because of the men of faith that walked before you. The children of Abraham from all three religions have brought the current understanding of the universe and all of these technologies you covet to you. It is because of God's children that you posses the means to defend yourself against the hordes of heathens that roam this earth at all.

Please respond. I do love to taunt you little snot noses..lol.

Yes, I was able to fully complete my chores, although mom was a little concerned about this internet bully named Troy I told her about. She just comforted me and reminded me what I already knew ... bullies have small pee pees, so they compensate through empty rhetoric.

I didn't reply to your above post because it is pretty bat@!$%# ... even by Christian fundy standards.

It's not really even that coherent to offer much substance to, maybe just show my friends for a good laugh ... but that's about it really. Something about Abraham's children designing laser-guided bombs, yada yada yada. You're sounding more and more like you belong on a street corner selling pencils from a cup.

Usually, these back-and-forth banter battles leave room for counter-arguments, but yours just seem to be getting stranger and stranger.

Basically, I hate when people make me feel so vastly superior to them ... intellectually, spiritually, philosophically, etc. That feeling of dirty-pride just makes me go all ichy inside.

But in your case, I'll make an exception.

Honestly Chad, you are @!$%#... now? Come on. For a rational, logical man of science you sure get angry....perhaps a bit of spiritual revelation tempered with that logic would calm you down and do you some good.

Glad you are back. I am truly enjoying our little discussion.

I think your uncontrollable need to feel vastly superior and your hatred of being vastly surperior are somewhat of an internal conflict don't you think? That conflict typically goes away with age and wisdom. Also when one begins to understand that one is but a small part of something much bigger than one's self. The realization that you aren't quite as important as you think does seem to be frightening for some. Hmm...come to think of it, it is probably why people take the easy way out...life seems kind of easy when you are only accountable to yourself.

BTW, just so you you know who you are talking to, I am not a Christian, I am not a Jew and I am not a Muslim....but I do believe in God.

For a rational, logical man

I'm an "atheist", as you like to put it. How could I be considered rational or logical in your book?

you sure get angry

Whatever made you think I was angry?

I think your uncontrollable need to feel vastly superior and your hatred of being vastly surperior are somewhat of an internal conflict don't you think?

I said "I hate when people make me feel vastly superior" ... I never said anything about "needing" people to make me feel that way.

Freudian slip on your end, perhaps?

The realization that you aren't quite as important as you think does seem to be frightening for some.

This is the best thing I've seen you write yet.

Let me get this straight ...

I believe: that human beings are a natural mechanism brought forth by evolution through way of Natural Selection. As such, I am related to not just the entire animal kingdom, but to that of the Earth and the universe itself. I am not special, divinely inspired, or "created" for a higher purpose. I am simply a part of a naturally occurring system.

You believe: that not only only were you supernaturaly created with a special purpose ... molded by a specific designer, but this designer actually created you "in his image".

And I'm the one suffering from illusions of grandeur here?

Come now Troy, you're really going to have to keep philosophical fallacies like this to a minimum if we are to have an enlightened discussion.

Hmm...come to think of it, it is probably why people take the easy way out

Understanding that I only have this one life and this one chance to live a good life, is actually not as easy as you would think. I try to fill my day with actions, words and thoughts that reflect well upon my family, friends and others that I care about. If this sounds like easy business to you, I guess opinions vary.

BTW, just so you you know who you are talking to, I am not a Christian, I am not a Jew and I am not a Muslim....but I do believe in God.

Pity.

Considering you have a very poor understanding of what it is like to simply be "without" belief in god.

Not to "reject" god, or "rail against" god, or be "angry" at god, or whatever other such nonsense people like you believe about people like my self.

Honestly, you. The way you think ... the poison that grips your
very psyche.

That's my definition of hell.

.....I
just remembered, I think I have heard you say that like a dozen times in the
the past. You should just end it all....what else is there now that you have it
all figured out? What purpose do you have? It doesn't even matter if you
procreate and multiply? There is no reason for you to even be here.....

All
insults and kidding aside on my part,

Chad,
do you really think that the story of Christ and the existence of God is any
more outrageous than believing that an entire incomprehensibly vast universe at
some point just exploded out of nothing for whatever half baked reason you can
come up with, planets and stars formed and then over billions of years atom by
atom, molecule by molecule, bits and pieces of non organic matter just
miraculously found each other while randomly floating around. But wait, one day
they just spontaneously came to be organic matter. Oh, and then they just
blindly bob around in some "soup" until they eventually form into
single celled organisms. But wait, one day a couple get together and think,
"hey, if we work together we could probably grow into some vastly complex
organism. Let's form legs and hearts and eyeballs and then one day we can make
Chad".

Really
snot nose? Really?

I just remembered, I think I have heard you say that like a dozen times in the the past. You should just end it all

Huh? What bearing does any of that have on anything?

I don't believe in "hell."

I think people who believe other people that they know and love (who don't happen to believe what they do) are going to perish in hell-fire and never-ending torture are seriously misguided individuals.

And because I think that ... I should kill myself?

You're a strange bird, aren't you Troy?

Chad, do you really think that the story of Christ and the existence of God is any more outragous than believing that an entire uncomrehensably vast universe at some point just exploded out of nothing and over billions of years molecule by molecule, bits and pieces of non organic matter just miraculously found each other and one day they just spontaniously came to be organic matter.

Aside from your really, really, really bad grasp on basic science, let me sum up your argument.

.......... Troy, do you really think that the story of an incomprehensibly complicated creator at some point just exploded out of nothing and instantly came together molecule by molecule, bits and pieces of supernatural matter just miraculously found each other and one day he said: Hey, let's spontaneously @!$%# some organic matter together and create Troy ............

So basically, you have no problem with complex mechanisms "just popping into existence." But only if they fit within your preconceived narrative of truth?

Is that how you play this game?

Try harder please.

Troy?

What happened? Leaving so soon … or did you finally get tired of posting irrational arguments?

Oh, by the way, before you go; I wanted to show you something:

At #160.8
The Jews will see Jesus on his return and know that he is the messiah.

At #160.10
BTW, just so you you know who you are talking to, I am not a Christian.

So, you believe that Jesus is not only real … but he's the "messiah." Not only that, but he will also "return?"

But, you're "not a Christian"?

Hmm …. this is a curious position, indeed.

So, you're either more irrational than I initially thought. Or, you're just a bold-faced liar?

Pity.

I don't think your Christ thought very well of liars.

Yes Chad. I am indeed telling you that you should kill yourself. You do not have any purpose and therefore there is no point for you to continue on with life. Also, you should get a better grasp on sarcasm before you go.

In all seriousness, I have enjoyed and learned a few things from our little spat but I am growing bored. You sound like an intelligent guy and have probably read all the same biology, chemistry and physics books that I have, possibly even more. And in truth, much of what is in them is very convincing. But not a single one answers the "why?" question. Fogive me, but after many years of studying the "how" I have become more interested in why we are here. And science will never answer that. But I will meet you somewhere in the middle.

Read a book called, "Origin of the Human Species". Don't judge it until you read it. It is a short read but a very good read. Maybe we meet up in another one of these blogs one day and discuss. It is somewhat in line with your thinking, totally in line with mine...and no it is not all "jesus freak". It doesn't even much touch on the question of Jesus.

With that I say good day snot nose. You are a good devils advocate. I have learned a bit from our little spat. But I will never believe that we are all alone out here in the middle of nowhere with no purpose.

Troy

You are appealing to an emotional response. The universe doesn't much care what we "want" to be true or whether or not what we discover is pleasant to our own understanding of ourselves.

Science doesn't work that way.

We can only go where the evidence leads us, and it is simply in the opposite direction of a benevolent creator.

The comment you just posted is an interesting one. One we would probably find quite a few points of agreement on. But, you chose to dance around and play the religion = spirituality card and you soured the discussion.

I'll bite one last time. Emotion is a part of our make-up as much as our ability to think. I am reallt bored with the material world. We most definately have a soul...if it goes to the grave with us or leaves the body and moves on it is still there. I feel its presence. I feel all three the mind, body and soul....soul lastly, not until I was much older.

The reason I have contradicted myself over and over is because I am not a christian, fairly ignorant of the religion really. I do believe in god but there is not a religion I can get a grip on yet. I just didn't like you bullying these guys around because they were....I was actually surprised that first comment even lead down this road....lol. Most people just give up and don't want to do battle. I hope in the future you will be alittle more accepting of christians and jews though. Honestly dude, they are seeking out the truth and contibuting to science as much as any other group of people. ...and you are right, I am indeed a strange bird.

Seriously, read that book though. It is thought provoking to say the least. Lots of big words but still a good read.

As for the "jesus is Messiah" comment, I should have said "christians believe" first but I would have given myself away though you were finding me out anyway.

I gotta move on. There are plenty more worldly articles where I can piss off some more people. I just read the one about the baby found alive in the rubble in his dead mothers arms in Syria and am dying to argue with anyone who has a smart assed comment. Join me if you like. Otherwise see ya around.

I don't know? What do ya think Chad? Where did you go? Chad has the answers you seek fernando....laser guided bombs and drones are his God.

Surely he has not been undone by a 12 year old like me....I was having so much fun.