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Norbert Falco/Le Dauphine / EPA
French Police officers cordon off the road leading to a gruesome scene where four people were shot dead near Annecy Lake, a popular tourist destination at the foothills of the French Alps.
Updated at 10:52 p.m. ET: Immobilized with fear, a 4-year-old British girl huddled for eight hours under her slain mother's skirt in a car filled with corpses in a remote area at the foothills of the French Alps — while investigators stood nearby, unaware she was there.
Thursday's discovery of the girl, apparently unharmed, heightened the drama surrounding a mysterious shooting rampage that left four adults dead and a 7-year-old girl hospitalized with three bullet wounds and skull fractures. The older girl had been "violently beaten," the Guardian of London reported.
Around 4 p.m. on Wednesday afternoon, a British cyclist cruising uphill came across a chilling scene: A BMW, its engine running, had three people dead inside. Nearby was a dead cyclist -- the British cyclist recognized him because he passed him on the road. Outside the car, a 7-year-old girl was gravely wounded and appeared to have been beaten.
The British cyclist, who, according to the Sun had been in the Royal Air Force, immediately placed the 7-year-old girl in "recovery position." He then walked around the car and broke the driver's side window to turn off the car.
The motive for these slayings remains unclear, and French authorities have not ruled out that this could be the work of a professional hitman. Three of the dead were shot in the forehead with a semi-automatic weapon -- which means the shooter had to pull the trigger for every shot. About 15 bullet casings were found near the car.
"All the possible scenarios have been images -- from the smallest, family drama," Prosecutor Eric Maillaud said, according to French media. "We have very, very few clues."
Maillaud described the slayings, in a wooded area near the southeastern village of Chevaline, as an act of "gross savagery." He said the scene found by officers was "well beyond television fiction."
Of the four dead, three were in the car, believed to be a British-Iraqi family vacationing at a campground on the shores of Lake Annecy, a popular retreat in the French Alps. The owners of the campground told investigators that the victims included two parents and a grandmother.
Investigators identified the driver of the car as Saad al-Hilli, 50, a British citizen and engineer from Surrey, England, who was born in Baghdad and moved to England in 1970, according to the Sipa news agency. Police in Surrey, a largely suburban county southwest of London, said they are talking with French authorities about the case.
Hilli is a respected member of the community, neighbors told British reporters.
"They are quite beautiful kids and so well behaved. He was an extraordinarily nice man and helpful. He was a very tactile loving father. He loved to gather the girls up and cuddle them," Jack Saltman, a neighbor, told the Guardian. "They would go running at him and he'd catch them in his arms and kiss them. He adored them. His wife was a delightful person and I can't think why anybody would want to harm them."
NBC News reported that al-Hilli worked as an engineer in aeronautics.
The eldest woman has a Swedish passport and has been identified in the British press as grandmother to the two girls.
See full coverage of this story at ITV News
The fourth victim was French cyclist Sylvain Mollier, 40, a father who apparently stumbled across the grisly murder in progress, police said. He was shot five times, at least one time in the forehead, le Dauphine Libere reported. He was on paternity leave from a job at a factory linked to nuclear manufacturer Areva after his third child was born in June.
Mollier had no ties to the British family; he was identified only after his wife reported him missing.
"A woman was worried because her husband went to cycle in this area and didn't come back home," Maillaud said. "He was just cycling in that area and got killed along with this British family."
'She was completely hidden'
French authorities struggled to explain why the 4-year-old wasn't discovered earlier and was left for hours alone in the back seat of the car.
Said Maillaud, according to France's Liberation newspaper: "Initially, a doctor determined that the people in the car were dead. He went to the bodies, determined they were deceased, and he removed himself. There were clothes, bags, and this little girl who remained rigorously still. Even with a thermal heat detector, this little girl was not detected. The doctors who approached the car could not detect this girl because she was completely hidden."
4 slain in French Alps; girl, possible witness, survives
The car was under guard until midnight, when special investigators arrived from the Paris area and found the girl.
Maillaud said as soon as investigators opened the door, the girl emerged, smiled and reached out her arms; she spoke English but couldn't describe what had happened and was taken into police care.
The 7-year-old girl remains hospitalized. She was placed in an artificial coma but her life is not in danger, Maillaud said Thursday. Both girls are under armed guard.
The Associated Press and NBC's Isolde Raftery contributed to this report. ITV News is the U.K. partner of NBC News.
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Leave a Comment:
I guess this stuff happens everywhere not just in the US. Feel real sorry for the little girl. What a nightmare.
Perpetrated probably by some goon hopped up on freedom fries.
Yeah, poor kid. But at least she'll be able to explain her Goth fixation when she's a teenager.
I took a family vacation like that once myself. Well, it felt like traveling with a car full of corpses. I died just a bit myself with every passing mile.
All the while reading his dog-eared copy of Necrophilia for Dummies
Wow, this morning the story said she was shot 3 times and there were 75 shell casing lying around.
They also said she was lying on the ground in "front" of the car. Not inside. WTF. Where do they get their information!?
those are some seriously bad cops... cop 101, secure the scene... and they overlooked a spot big enough to hide a child for HOURS... what if the kid was hit? or there was a bomb and 10 cops got killed?
nice job.....
I know this won't be a popular stance with many, but can we please start killing the pieces of excrement that do these things to people, especially to children. No amount of rehabilitation will ever cure these animals of whatever causes them to do these things. I know it will never end, but at least we can start administering proper justice.
Creek Dog, the article clearly states that a 7-year old child was outside of the vehicle with gunshot wounds and a skull fracture. The 4-year old was hiding underneath the legs of her mom inside of the vehicle. I believe they gave the correct information. It appears to be your inability to read and understand it that's in question here.
You're stance is popular with me spellchecker. A life for a life seems fitting.
Each time I hear or read of some over the top atrocity, I think that I've surely hear it all. Nope! The ante just keeps being raised to a new level. Thank goodness the little one had enough sense to stay hidden and hope that she can put this awful event in her life behind her and have a great future. I was playing in sandboxes (anybody remember those?) when I was four.
im also with you spellchecker, maybe if the scum bags that commit these kinds of terrible acts were aware of the mandatory death penalty given for the murder of children or any other innocent person, maybe it would deter some of these poor children from being murdered. but youre correct as there will always be those that say taking the life of someone who kills children is not the best solution. but is it fair that they get life in prison when the people they kill lose their life? no it is not fair. life in prison may not be the best life but people adapt to their surroundings and these murdering pieces of trash will get used to their life in prison. i say if you are found guilty of murder and its proven that you are 100% guilty of that crime, then bring back the rope. dont waste good electric or expensive drugs to do the job that could be done by a length of rope that can be used over and over again.
The death penalty is not a deterrent because criminals never think they will be caught. However, I think society would be a lot safer if we disposed of those who would murder children. I think this should also go for pedophiles and rapists.
I don' think there is any doubt it was the muslim extremists france is so willing to allow into their country.
Sounds like the father was targeted and the others killed because they were witnesses. Perhaps the father was involved with some shady Iraqi activity.
It is almost starting to sound like the French version of the American movie "Fargo".
@lawful1,
Don't get your panties in a bunch sweetie pie. MSN ran this story this morning (5 a.m. "When you were snoring") I commented then. Then they "Re-Ran" the story (3hrs ago) stating the above information that is now different and changed since this morning.
Have a nice day...
CD
Creek Dog you just made yourself look like even more of an A$$. Is there a reason that you feel the gigantic font was necessary or do you just like the attention. Simply explaining your point would have been enough or maybe saying nothing at all. Because acting like a two year old doesn't accomplish anything.
Maybe they were after the cyclist, and the family pulled up in the car, the cyclist worked at a factory linked to nuclear manufacturer Areva. Lot of questions, no answers!! May all the dead rest in peace, and the wounded find some measure of resolution. The guilty, only justice.
Rontron (#1.14): Or maybe you demonstrated the problem. Perhaps, because of name and appearance, they were targeted because someone's prejudice led him/her to believe they "had" to be part of some shady activity.
Steve (#1.3): It's nice to know how much you love your family...
tstrucker & Rontron; The father is originally from Baghdad (in case you have been asleep all your live, that's in Iraq), so he likely was a Muslim himself. More likely the killers were White skin heads from France - hate crime is my guess.
Creek Dog; maybe if you got rid of that smirking arrogant picture of your self, you wouldn't come off as such a punk. By the way - why are you here? When I was your age, I had a life, I wouldn't have been caught dead posting with us old fogies. Enjoy your youth - it is gone much too soon, and you never get it back...and the big font stuff - this isn't a Dick & Jane reader, us old farts have tri-focals...lol.
we are a sick species
Spellchecker I think your stance is fine and apparantly several others do to.
Saddam people still in operations. Iraqi engineer refusing to return to homeland to rebuild WMD's and stuff.
Thanks. I'll take it into consideration. By the way, 1963 - 49 yrs old. Catchin' up to you guys.
Sometimes I get caught up in situations where someone tries to throw me under the bus and I fire back. It's human nature. Also, If you read my posts, I never call anyone stupid, idiot, @!$%# etc... such as some of these people do. I just say it how I comprehend/see it.
BTW, the story was "very" different 5 in the morning than what it is now & lawful1 didn't have to belittle me since he/she didn't know this yet had to say something about me that was not correct.
Have a nice day.
This is quite the creepy story! Have this girl seek aid as this violence comes to an end!
Guess Inspector Closeau was not a joke....he was reality TV in France...
Every country is beginning to tire of Immigrents from Africa and the Middle East. They do not assimilate to the Countries they come to and therein lies the problem. Muslims cannot live along side of Christians the way Atheist can. Sharia Law be damned!
Not to speculate BUT, there is a dead guy born in Bagdad and certainly of Arab orgin with a French guy shot dead who worked at a Nuclear facility. All this in France. It seems too coincidental..........
So in YOUR world, it's all just white christians? Ummm, better up your meds and try living in the REAL world! I think I just read the "problem". Check yourself.
Are you honestly going to take that position? Face reality honey, Muslims don't play well with anyone not of the Muslim faith. You know, they consider everyone else an Infidel and the only good Infidel is a DEAD Infidel according to the Koran. I don't like them, I don't trust them and I don't want them Immigrating to America. They hate us and I feel the same way about them.
Who made you the spokesidiot for every country? Where to begin with your moronic tirade... The xenophobia, racism, armchair anthropology, poor spelling, bold font, and hateful attitude. Go back to that warm, hollowed out place under the rock where you belong.
Call it what you want there Big Boy but I guarantee you things are going to change come November. I think the Republicans could wind up on a 16 year roll for the Presidency.
Hey Tranq..............Here's a nice 1 Finger Salute for you! hehehehehe.................
I have never read so many inane and idiotic comments about a tragedy, maybe because it happened in France ? A lot of you can't spell, either. Shame on you.
Mental masturbation.
Wow, what a profound comment....
clflan2-1, what if they were Christians, whose families had lived in the Middle East since the time of the birth of Christ, and are just now immigrating? Would you change your rant then?
Would it even matter?
Time will tell I suppose.....................but I don't think that will be the case.
clflan2-1,
Just out of curiosity, if Obama wins the next election will you migrate to, say, Canada? I think the US could lose you without too much sorrow.
I'm an Independent, who used to be a Republican and it is really difficult for me to identify/justify or just plain understand people like you. Your tirade has no place in this article...number ONE is because there was nothing to say this family wasn't an Iraqi CHRISTIAN family who migrated because of RELIGIOUS persecution. Number TWO, you never even made a relevant point regarding anything CONTAINED in the article.
I don't know you, but the impression I get is that you lack a significant amount of common sense.
clflan: Referencing back to your #2.4 post, don't worry, you VERY clearly expressed your hatred; there is absolutely no question, if there ever was before. It sounds like you don't play well with anyone either.
Psst America NEVER listen to ANY of these Patriotic Or Nationalist Nicknamed TROLLS....For that is all they are...Corporate Trolls!
Did the police check the car for survivors, or were the police helping to insure that none of the adults in the car survived....
I think that's a cold statement to make. If the girl wasn't moving and was also partially concealed behind her mother's legs, it would be hard to see her. The police were waiting for the technicians from Paris to arrive and probably didn't want to disturb the crime scene too much and risk destroying evidence.
I'm sure the police are horrified and saddened that this happened. No one wants to be called to a scene where a family has been massacred.
"I think that's a cold statement to make"
Maybe there's a reason.
The godfather of the International Mafia **loves** to kill. Men, women, even children. He doesn't care.
LaMusica @3.1 - If someone, such as the 4-year old, was only injured and unconscious, they could have bled out, or as said @1.6, what if there was a bomb there instead of a living child? Apparently the authorities LOOKED in the car, but did not disturb the bodies even enought to check for vital signs or they would have found the child.
OMG that poor baby girl. I hope she gets through this. Idiots!!!
There's a lifetime of therapy!
Sounds like a hate crime to me and the bicyclist was killed because he was a witness.
I would suspect Mossad rather a hate crime...this wasn't a random crime..this was an execution...
madashell - Totally agree. This was hit and it was done in such a way that no one would survive, including witnesses. It has Mossad's signature all over it.
Wow, you guys really went out into the outfield on this one...DO any of you even know anything about the Mossad? Have you served with any? Do you have relatives who even served in the middle east?
I would say it was more likely an offshoot of the old guard from Iraq. Since Iraq was never much of a threat to Israel, your point has no real direction. Do you realize there are a number of Saddam's regime still living in Europe?
Go ahead and write your Fictitious account, along with your anti-semitism, but please don't share it here.
lol...to answer your questions. Yes, No, Yes and Yes. And you just couldn't help yourself, had to throw out the "anti-semitism" card for thinking it was the Mossad. They are very active in this part of the world, more than any other secret service organization.
<sigh>
Even in a sad, horrifying story about young girl being found in a car full of shot-up corpses, it's always about Israel for some people.
The "anti-semitism" referrence is a logical direction, since this was in France, and it was an immigrant from Iraq. As far as I can remember, Iraq has had a cordial relationship with both England and Israel. Saddam wasn't friendly, but neither did he go out of his way to piss off the Israelis.
There was no referrence to Israel in any way in the article, though I agree it sounds like an assassination, but drawing the conclusion that it was Mossad was kind of out there. It seems far more likely that it was some kind of retribution by former Bathists, well maybe not "former". Or, if this guy was a Bathist, he may have been targetted for that. Iraqis were a pretty viscious bunch in their day, as are the Iranians.
I will be interested to see if there is any additional information about this in the not-too-distant future.
You think this sounds like a Mossad hit ... with survivors? Sorry, but if this were such an instance we wouldn't be reading about not one but two surviving children. Pros would NOT make the mistake of not checking the car and the victims' vital signs, nor would they need so many rounds to accomplish their goal! Whomever carried out this atrocity, he/she/they do NOT have the caliber training Mossad( or CIA, or ... insert govt entity here) agents would have.
Madashell and Justiceforall your anti-semetic side is showing. This shows absolutely no "signs" of Mossad. Mossad does not target the family and kids of those it goes after. Second Mossad does not leave two witnesses alive at the scene that were directly involved with the situation. Third they do not ALSO kill someone who wonders onto the scene as things go down. Mossad? Not gonna happen! This was sloppy, brutal and amateurish! Heck they probably would have policed brass too. This has no indications of them at all. None! This more than likely is middle eastern types upset with the Iraqi for some reason. He left the country, betrayed someone, collaborated with the west or something similar OR a Russian mob hit against the Iraqi or French guy. This is EXACTLY like one of those two scenarios. Overkill, hardcore, amateur and very, very sloppy.
Mossad does not target children and innocent bystanders. This was not a professional hit - very sloppy and amateurish - I agree with Harkaelian. I know some of you would just love to believe it was Jews, but we don't work that way - sorry to step all over your hate.
Poor child :(
How utterly awful. I hope that poor little girl finds peace through all of this trauma. I hope they find the one(s) responsible even more.
The French newspaper Le Dauphine identified the dead biker as Sylvain Mollier, a 40-year-old father of three on paternity leave from a job at a factory linked to nuclear manufacturer Areva.
"Our thoughts are with the young girls who survived and the family," he wrote.
Let's not forget the family of the slain biker who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Sounds like he was a new father, so now his wife is a single mother. Their family has suffered a devastating loss and deserves sympathy, too. After all, how will they ever come to terms with the senseless slaying of their husband/daddy?
I have to agree with CC the father may have been targeted because of his middle eastern looks and the rest were shot to prevent witnesses
But...Europe is the shining example of diversity we must strive to emulate. Isn't it? No??
Doesn't appear that any of you spent much time in Europe. There are Turks, Pakistani, along with a whole slew of Mediterranean races living there. All of whom "look" middle eastern. If these folks were killed because they "looked" Muslim, or middle eastern, I would imagine there would be a lot more similar killings.
It would be interesting to hear at some time what the motive was. The surviving girls and the families of all slain, my heart goes out to you. I just can't imagine how I would be able to deal with such a thing.
outlaw the guns and the crimnals will be the only ones with them. the police wont admit it but they cant protect you, hell they didnt even look to see if there were any survivors.
And this is what you thought of as you read this story. My god, what a monster you are. I pity you and those who know you.
is this really the story to use for your pro gun stance? im a registered gun owner also and i carry a gun and have a concealed carry permit, but that has nothing to do with this story. its about a poor child that survived the murder of her loved ones and also the murder of witnesses to the crime. is the little girl that survived supposed to carry a weapon? c'mon john. read the story bud before you comment. and not every story is a way for you to announce your feelings about guns and owning them. pitiful. as for the little girl in this story, i hope shes able to make piece with this terrible event someday, tho im sure it wont be anytime soon. poor thing.
Case in point.....France has the strictest gun control laws on the planet.
France also has only 0.1 homicides by firearm per 100,000 people in 2007. Whereas the US had 3.4 in the same year. That is 3400% more gun homicides.
I suggest pro gun people avoid this argument in relation to this story.
Source:
http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/homicide.html
You think if the family were armed they would have been able to fend off the killers? Hardly. They were in a car, it's not like they had time to think.
Velly Intellesting!
Oh, why is America so gun happy! Shootings, killings...what a violent, hostile.....what? France? Oh. Never mind.
Didn't even know the frenchy french frenchman knew how to handle a gun.
Shame on you for making such a comment, dancing on the deaths of these people. You're less than human...
Tranquil Nihilist is your average bigoted douchebag, who is just here to post comments which are humorous only to him. Pathetic.. And Steve the dog man (good name) is his sidekick.
Chris, you're hemorrhaging. Loosen up that tight sphincter a bit. You'll feel better.
Poor taste, guys. Let it go.
Dear God ....Help this poor little girl get through this .....She will have a tough row to hoe.
F*ck Off PLORK or PORK .....or whatever you call yourself.......Your just a miserable prick who can't even stand yourself..... God did not kill her parents ! So tired of assh*les like you ......Everything happens for a reason.... DIK
@PValdes
WOW what a hypocrite your are first you are calling for god to help this little girl and when someone contradicts you,you come at them swearing like a sailor.Where was god when her parents were being murdered???If he could not stop the murder what in the hell makes you think he is going to lift a finger to help her??
The world isn't a puppet show for God's amusement. He doesn't cause nor does he stop things from happening.
I get angry at jackasses like you .....because I was actually thinking out loud and saying a prayer for the little girl. You idiots use a story like this to try and somehow prove your "Godless" theory .... Excuse my outburst and the language. I have already asked for forgiveness ....and I will have it . I have also said a prayer for you 2 jokers........@ ANGRY...."What the hell makes you think he is going to lift a finger to help her ??" PRAYER ......that's what ......She will get the help she needs.
Plork the troll.......nothing else to do today huh? Must be raining at your house ..... We PRAY because we have FAITH......
It is very simple Plork......Christians believe in the word of God written in the scripture .....the promise made through the blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ.....for all of us. You obviously DO NOT believe....which is fine.....My problem is when you attack people who do with sarcasm and hatred........ It is only superstition to those who do not believe .....
Hey plork, please don't taunt the religious folk. As much as I cringe at them using god to make things "all ok", they are just coping with bad things the only way they know how, and expressing pity the only way they can understand.
Oh no, continue taunting the religious.It helps prove who's genuinely sincere in their acts towards fellow man on an internet forum and those who merely spout prayers and scripture only to get angry and have a tantrum.
Methinks this is more of the "Religion of Peace's" handiwork...
what if the bicyclist was the intended victim and the car happened along at the wrong time?
The frenchman was probably put on paternity leave because he was a security threat to the nuclear plant and had to be eliminiated. They killed the people in the car to throw everyone off the track. Nothing is what it seems in this world anymore.
How long did the frenchman have on paternity leave? Do the French men breast feed as well?
seven2seven : This from a frenchman : F@#k off ! At least we have paternity leave and free healthcare, you loser.
Enjoy your day
Your health care isn't free you are taxed at the arse for it, approximately 21%. And we in the U.S. have what is called "Family Medical Leave Act" which allows 12 weeks of leave. So Chris do explain you free health care and our not having paternity leave if you would please.
chris65 is an angry frenchy, french, frenchman to whom I say: Va te faire foutre, trouduc
Frenchy's don't work, the men have teets like the sows in a trough routing for Le Troughels. I will say to Chrissy65 say Par Le Vou FO YU 2. I have my own business and provide great healthcare to my workers who can put in over 40 hours per week :)
I
I cannot believe how heartless some of you people are. I hope nothing like that ever happens to any of you, if it does will be well deserved. And yes things like this happen in other countries, we don't hear about it as often becuase we are busy killing our children and our spouses here in the USA. People have a heart a 4 year old child has suffered only God knows what kind of psychological damage and there are at least 2 families that have lost loved ones.
Very nice Proud ......I don't understand the mind set of a person who could joke about such a horrible tragedy. There are some really sick people in this world. I try to remain civil but some of the people on this vine make it very difficult .....
I agree 100%. So many turn every article into a battle of religion and politics. It's very annoying, as well ass ignorant and thoughtless. People need to focus on what's important. People.
I find it very heartless for someone to wish such a tragedy on anyone, even if they make such ignorant post.
Having lived in the area, I'd suggest a few things: one; there was mistranslation in the newspaper from french to english, meaning the french would have moted the family of the cyclist and the family of the girl, and two; the likelihood of this being another terrorist attack is probable.
The reason this makes such striking news is indeed the fact that it was a shooting. Shootings are actually very, very rare in Europe. And even criminals are hard pressed to own them. No, the criminals are not the only ones with guns in Europe, many, many own guns, they're for hunting.
European diversity? ummm France has French, who abhor having muslims (there's diversity), Germany has Germans who abhor Turks (shipped 'em all back, legal or no, within the last 20 years) England hates the foreign Poles and Muslims "invading " their country. not very diverse actually, the population can pinpoint exactly who is moving in. the U.S.? wow, we're from everywhere aren't we?
I also guarantee that the police responsible for securing the site are getting a strong reprimand for not having verified signs of life of anyone in the car. But they were probably going on what the cyclist told them who discovered the scene. (the 2nd one that is.)
Hoping the 7 year old can describe the scene after she recovers from surgery. What a nightmare.
Hard to figure the angle on these shootings - hate crime comes to mind, but who knows - hope they solve it.
I think it was a hate crime the guy was from Baghdad.....France does not want towel heads there anymore then the US does the guy on the bike was there at the wrong time....I feel bad for the child
BJ,
I am astounded. You make a very good overture about the child, but only after you vomit a hate message...by the way, East Indians were Turbans. That's where the "Towell Head" referrence came from. Last I heard, they aren't all Muslim, in fact very few are. The correct "derogatory" referrence is "Rag" head.
If you want to be a bigot, do it right.
The odds are it was a hate crime but a solely Arab one: they were Christian and the killer was Muslim; they were Sunni and the killer was Shi'ite, they were Shi'ite and the killer was Sunni or there was reason someone's family honor diaper was in a twist.
Poor little girls. Can't escape their culture no matter where they are.
"The 7-year-old girl was discovered near the car with bullet wounds"
" as soon as investigators opened the door, the girl emerged, smiled and reached out her arms"
Perhaps this didn't even happen or was not in France, Maybe it was a little boy. Not sue what is right or wrong with this story, Proof readers on vacation again.
Perhaps lets get the facts straight before we print.
Reread the article. There were two girls.
Looks like the reader's brain is on vacation, not the proofreaders.
Warrior, I can't believe you ever posted that.
Anything we write here is purely a guess. The information is completely unreliable. Yesterday, they reported the scene was discovered by a second bicyclist, and there were 50 casings, which sounded like an automatic weapon. Today, the second bicyclist is not mentioned, replaced by a worried wife, and the 50 casings becomes 15. On top of that, the quality of the police work is exemplified by the fact that they overlooked a survivor. If they had bothered to identify the male victim and check with authorities, they would have discovered that he has multiple children. And, the bodies were not going to be removed for 24 hours, presumably (a nice word for WAG) because the nearest medical examiner was a day away.
Somebody should preserve these posts and then give an award to the closest guess as to what happened.