I agree that it will be interesting to watch but I disagree with your statement about democracy.

Democracy doesn't mean freedom of speech is guaranteed. It simply means that the populace gets to choose exactly what laws they want. Just because we value freedom of speech doesn't mean that another country will feel the same. If the populace decides that they prefer that their religious laws should govern the country then democracy has worked and the people have chosen.

Would I like to live there? Of course not. No more than I want any religious laws codified here. But them I'm not a religious person and value that freedom too.

The important part of democracy is that the people get a choice. And that they continue to have the choice to make changes. Whether we agree with their choices is of no consequence.

Islamist cleric in Egypt faces charges of blasphemy after he allegedly tore up and burned copies of the New Testament at a protest in front of the American Embassy in Cairo.

Nothing to see here folks, just typical Muslim theatrics and monkey games. Islam does not care about freedom of expression, individuality or the rights of any living being on this planet. Just the feelings and useless words of a dead corpse named Mohammad is under their protection and without restriction.

dsb,

You are full of it. At the time religion was removed from all our public institutions, a lot of the states were adamant that they wanted the religious symbols, prayers and such to be kept. It was not the will of the majority that had them removed, it was the will of a handful of men with lifetime jobs who could not be held accountable for any decisions they made and who were not elected by the people.

States rights are an important part of our government but have been over run time and again by a minority of people who have pressed their views on the majority.

And I am not a religious person. But to say that every Christian and atheist in a country should have to bow down to the Islamic religion because the majority demanded it, and to call that democracy, makes me think you are demented.

The important part of democracy is that even the minorities are protected.

@dsb

I believe that this is a democracy in which a significant percentage of the population has little understanding of basic concepts. Your idea that democracy and freedom of speech as separate is an excellent example of such a misunderstanding. So I will quote two Supreme Court justices on the relationships between the two ideas and then summarize in my own words.

Louis Brandeis

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Louis_Brandeis

"Those who won our independence believed that the final end of the state was to make men free to develop their faculties, and that in its government the deliberative forces should prevail over the arbitrary. They valued liberty both as an end and as a means. They believed liberty to be the secret of happiness and courage to be the secret of liberty. They believed that freedom to think as you will and to speak as you think are means indispensable to the discovery and spread of political truth; that without free speech and assembly discussion would be futile; that with them, discussion affords ordinarily adequate protection against the dissemination of noxious doctrine; that the greatest menace to freedom is an inert people; that public discussion is a political duty; and that this should be a fundamental principle of the American government."

Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927), at 375

Full and free exercise of this right by the citizen is ordinarily also his duty; for its exercise is more important to the nation than it is to himself. Like the course of the heavenly bodies, harmony in national life is a resultant of the struggle between contending forces. In frank expression of conflicting opinion lies the greatest promise of wisdom in governmental action; and in suppression lies ordinarily the greatest peril.

Dissent, Gilbert v. Minnesota, 254 U.S. 325, (1920), at 338

Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Oliver_Wendell_Holmes,_Jr

To allow opposition by speech seems to indicate that you think the speech impotent, as when a man says that he has squared the circle, or that you do not care whole-heartedly for the result, or that you doubt either your power or your premises. But when men have realized that time has upset many fighting faiths, they may come to believe even more than they believe the very foundations of their own conduct that the ultimate good desired is better reached by free trade in ideas —that the best test of truth is the power of the thought to get itself accepted in the competition of the market, and that truth is the only ground upon which their wishes safely can be carried out. That at any rate is the theory of our Constitution.

Abrams v. United States, 250 U.S. 616, (1919), at 630

The emphasis is of course my own, but now my summation…..

It is my impression that if Americans are asked the question, "what is the line of reasoning from freedom of speech to good governance in a democracy?" many would not be able to make the connection. I think most people think that freedom of speech is pretty much an unalienable right, but do not fully understand its function in a democracy.

Freedom of speech works to increase the amount of information or understanding, like brainstorming in some meetings. Those that hear or get the information then evaluate it individually or in groups and then they decide by voting or by consensus. The process of evaluating is often called the "marketplace of ideas." The line of premises is that by having a free and large flow of information people can educate themselves and then in the process of deciding what the situation is or what to do, again by voting or by consensus, their decisions are more likely to be of quality because it was tested by the democratic process. Because it is a quality idea we end up governing ourselves wisely. Democracy is not a goal; it is the means to an end: good governance. I would posit that the misunderstanding of basic democratic theory is a bad sign for a democracy.

So then without freedom of speech there is no grist for the mill that is democracy.

It all depends on how democracy is defined in the proposed constitution. There is no single definition for democracy, but what we have come to hold as vital is not just a representation of the majority of the people but one that also protects the rights, beliefs and needs of minorities. Hopefully, Egypt will use the US constitution as an example to emulate and not insert a religious element in it like they did in Afghanistan. The Afghan constitution is worthless because everything within it is subservient to the dictates of the Koran.

My guess is that the Islamists will win out and the blasphemy laws, with their inherent repression of free speech, will remain and will continue to be used to silence dissent.

Good guess. These idiots flying off in a rage over a dimwitted flick made by a complete nincompoop (of Egyptian heritage, mind you) should have removed all doubt by now as to who will be calling the shots.

If Egypt is on the level on this, then I say kudos to the Egyptian government on this particular case. As JD said above it will be interesting to see how far this particular case goes and how far blasphemers against non Muslim religions in Egypt will be punished. I'm not holding my breath but I'll give the benefit of the doubt for the moment.

What has come out on many occasions is that Egyptian television continues to show and even increases anti Jewish and anti Christian films and programs.It´s all ot there for those who know Arabic, and millions do in the West.The new president was raised on the breast of the Muslim Brotherhood.His speech and the U.N shows it.Like his Turkish counterpart he will bring in a Sharia state with all it´s Islamic finaticism and intolerance.Super bad news for the region and the whole world.Not only Israel should be very concerned but the whole world.His wolf´s tail shows.Noone should be fooled.He supports Islamic terrorism when needed.His party which he has never denounced is VERY clear on that.He is neither a democrat nor believes in human dignity and plurality.Sharia law and all that come with that is coming very soon to Egypt.Beware!!

DSB,

The important thing that defines limits is the constitution with its ammendments, and the bill of rights. If there is a problem or an ambiguity, then the rules can be ammended.

America is not really a democracy. We cannot vote to exile or to ostracize as they did in ancient athens. Voting has limited power, and to modify an inaliable right takes an act of congress...literally.

Let the Imam rip a bible, let them burn a flag, or an effigy of Uncle Sam. Nobody in the west raises an eyebrow. But to kill an ambassadore for being offended by an obscure 2nd rate movie about Muhammad, that is pure terrorism.

this is a game from the Muslim brotherhood , he will stay in five star hotel and they will tell him good clerk you did a good job from the soldiers and he government in Egypt, what a liars people, these Islamic government are fanatic liars, do not believe them, they are liars freak fanatic, the way they raised like that, they will never change. obama made a big mistake, he is a weak president

Democracy without protection of basic human rights is a sham. What kind of a hollow shell is a system without freedom to have an opinion and express it or freedom to chose a religion or no religion at all or one that discriminates against women in favor of men?

Better to live in a dictatorship with basic human rights than a so called " democracy " without them.

gary-309869 "What kind of a hollow shell is a system without freedom to have an opinion"

That hollow system would not be a democracy. Freedom of speech is central to the democratic process.

Free speech ? What free speech ? arabs wouldn't know free speech if it bit them in the a$$ !! They are hypocrites and intellectually dishonest. There are in fear of their fellow arabs, and don't have the courage to think freely, their are burdened by their religion, which is not a choice, they have to follow it or die. It is no way to live. It will take more centuries before any enlightment takes place.

Egypt will become a democracy the day the USA will become communist, LOL.

Egypt will get there. It takes time. These countries accepting democracy and learning tolerance don't do so overnight.

To help put this into perspective, look at Alabama. We are still trying to drag them kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

Jeff ====== what a hater of America you must be. The center of intolerance in America rests with the liberal crowd not Alabama. Liberals even oppose freedom of speech in America, witness their attacks on the movie trailer rather than the rioting, murdering thugs. Egypt will develop intolerance when it jettisons Islam -- just read the Koran and you will know the truth of that statement. That won't happen in many, many lifetimes , if ever.

5 star hotel? According to the article...."Egyptian human rights organizations have (said) that Zaki has been tortured and was being held at an undisclosed location. His house was searched without a proper warrant when no one was home, they contend.". So much for the muslim version of democracy, yikes.

If they want to burn a bible - yawn. There's lots more at the bookstore. Hope Egypt gets it together and has peace.... but everyone knows it is not likely to happen in the next 100 years or so.

chris65

YOUR WITH IT MAN...on the ball.

Hey dsb

Here is a hint for your scrap book. Every stinkin law we have in the US is attributable to the Ten Commandments or the Mosaic laws.

a message to all those with their panties in a ruffle each time some nut decides to burn a relgious book...

get over it!

this is actually an economy builder, and you should look at it as non other than. When a book in mass production is burnt, any book, this not only means someone had to buy this book, but possibly in more cases, buy another. this helps to keep loggers employed, paper mills, and the book company that printed the book. of course like all religious people these books contain sacred passages, and "should be treated with respect", but let's face it, its a book you can find almost anywhere, to include the books base of worship. the money you use to obtain such a book, also donates in some form to the cause of that books religious prefrence when purchased from say a church of choice (even tho they can be obtained as a personal donation) they have already been bought and paid for, and at some point, order more copies (COPIES) as said before, keeping people employed along the ranks from base creation, to purchase. Thus again, its just a book. most people (such as myself) look at these people as if they have nothing better to do than griep about nothing, or want to hurt the feelings of those who look more into this book than it is... an edited version of another book, to include any book again in mass production, redily avaiable.

your book burning noise in my case falls on deaf ears, and i think you need some meds to tone it down a bit. possibly some proffessional help as well to deal with anger managment, not to mention a few other deep underlying issues (small penis perhaps or lack of sex?) that really need to be wroked on before you/they can lead a productive life in society.

-Mossdog-

And to the Republic for which it stands...

jim825

Hey dsb

Here is a hint for your scrap book. Every stinkin law we have in the US is attributable to the Ten Commandments or the Mosaic laws.

here is a hint for you.... who cares? if you want lawless boundries you know where the door is, and dont let it break your behind on the way out. laws need a start from someplace, and a book of MORALS, is considered a good place to start, look at any country. however, if you would like to show us where drunk driving, drug use/possesion, leaving a baby in a car, kicking your dog, pi$$ing in public, failure to pay taxes, and this list goes on and on, is referensed in any good book, by all means point this out.... otherwise you sound more like a (imo) some nut who is making another baseless claim.

Jeff it didn't take much for you to sink into liberal name calling.

Go watch 2016, it's nothing more then a documentary, grow up and come learn from adults.

As far as Egypt and Libya are concerned what they call democracy is a far cry from what we know in America. Both countries are under sharia law and both countries are controlled by the muslim brotherhood.

What I'm trying to figure out is why is Barack Obama sending billions of dollars, $2.5 billion, to two countries that have more money then America and trillions in reserves? Also starting in October an additional $2 billion.

NaughtyMossy....Most of what you describe can be illustrated quite simply from the Sermon on the Mount

Do unto others as you would have others do unto you....that is the sum of the Laws and the Prophets

The Ten Commandments say to worship no other God other than your Lord (not even drugs)

It is better to tie a mill stone around your neck and hurl yourself into the river than to harm a child.

Jesus Christ said render unto Caesar that which is Caesars...and the list goes on and on and on and on. Who is being baseless now, Hmmmmm?

That is all for now naughty mossy. Read the Bible before you start claiming you know what is in it. But then you are a typical liberal atheist. I frankly do not care. Just stop pretending that laws come from man. If laws come from man then you are in deep @!$%#. I know your hero obama is trying to make laws and not enforce laws but beware when he makes a law that affects your butt.

jim825

Do unto others as you would have others do unto you....

Actually, Confusius started that one. The bible ripped it off.

So when the Catholic Church helps illegals from Mexico with resources meant to feed the American poor, this is not considered theft?

Illegals in the US are in a constant state of sin. Does this stop the Catholic Church from giving them Holy Communion, an act of blasphemy, a violation of every principle of the Church?

OMG, they burned the New Testament!!! Let's riot, loot, and create mayhem!!! I am a Christian and I oppose any attempts to charge these people with blasphamy. I also oppose any organized retribution. This is a matter of free speech; this cleric has the right to burn copies of my holy book, if he so chooses.

Menoseeno, what kind of sick, twisted theology is that? You are in a state of sin for your bigotry and hatred toward those who are different from you. It is not theft to be in a country "illegally." Jesus commands us to love our neighbors as ourselves. We are taught to care for the poor, the widowed, the orphaned, the homeless, etc. I guess your idea of caring for these people is to arrest them. I'm not sure what religion you are, but your beliefs are anything BUT Chrisian. The Catholic (and other Chuches) are doing God's work by helping "the least of these." Try reading the NEW Testament every once in a while, especially the words of Jesus.

The important part of democracy is that the people get a choice.

Without protection for the rights of the minorities and without protections for unpopular viewpoints, the democracy that you describe is really just mob rule.

These ragheads just don't get it, It's only paper!! Moohamand is still a false child molesting fraud!

I'm surprised at the hostility some are bringing to this board. This isn't a faith-related issue so much as one of economic and social problems in the middle east, which is behind us several hundred years socially and economically.

If you had a society filled with unemployed Christian young men without access to healthy relationships with women, no jobs, no opportunities, no justice, all within a corrupt legal and political framework... they'd get whipped into retarded riots like this also.

Fundamentalist faith naturally fills a vacuum in this type of repressed society to help reinforce social order, and frankly, to the extent it gives hope and comfort to people who have no other, it's fine.

Chris

There are in fear of their fellow arabs

After living in an Arab country for awhile, this was one of the major differences that made me see my country and culture with a fresh perspective.

We Americans casually assume each other are honest and trustworthy. Arabs assume the opposite about each other. They build trust from long and close friendships, while we give trust to almost anyone until they prove they are unworthy. At which point we are shocked and disgusted, while an Arab would blame the one who trusted for having poor judgement.

This inability to trust each other provides some of the underpinning for the lack of women's rights. An Arab man once explained it to me this way: If you have a precious diamond, will you leave it in the street?

I find cultural differences fascinating.

Hey dsb

Here is a hint for your scrap book. Every stinkin law we have in the US is attributable to the Ten Commandments or the Mosaic laws.

Have you ever even read a Bible? The "Ten Commandments" was a movie, and they myth surrounding it and the stone monuments given to towns around the US was a PR stunt. If you bible-thumpers actually read it, you'd find there are many more than Ten, and that there are at least two versions of what the tablets "Moses" had written on them (Exodus and Judges). Plus the Christian versions don't match the Hebrew ones, where the first one reads "I am The Lord, your God", and Two is "You shall have no other God before (in this case meaning above, or more important than) me." Yes, the so called First Commandment is actually two, and it was written to a divided people, as some Hebrew tribes still worshiped a pantheon of Hebrew (and in some cases, other Semitic) Deities, while others were being converted to the new deity, Yahweh (a conglomeration of many of the most powerful and important Hebrew Deities).

As for the Mosaic Laws, they were nothing more than a Hebrew slant on the much older Code of Hammurabi mixed with some Assyrian, Hittite and Egyptian laws, but given a slant to embrace the new deity.

Doesn't anyone actually question anything any more and then look to find the real answers? At one time critical thinking was considered important.

As to this cleric, given that, and I know most people don't know this, the Q'uran has most of the New Testament stories in it (Jesus is considered a very important Prophet in Islam), burning those pages would be blasphemy to followers of Islam. Egypt is not yet a democracy, and Freedom of Speech is not integral to Democracy, though it is nice to have. Egypt has always been a theocracy, going back thousands of years. You're never likely to see it anything other than that, even if Democracy is adopted in full. The Pharaohs were God-Kings, as were the Hellenic Pharaohs, and under Roman rule, the Ceasers were considered the same way until Constantine, but many after him reverted to the Roman Gods. Islam's hold on Egypt made it first a Shi'a Theocracy, and then Salah al-Din made it a Sunni Theocracy, which it has pretty much remained to this day, even when the rulers were secular.

Stop watching Faux News and pick up a good history book, or a theological book examining the roots of Abrahamic religions. You might even learn something.

Burning Bibles, burning flags, burning crosses, meh. Irving, bubala, print another hundred million flags and Bibles. There, that'll show 'em.

We will never understand the Islamic world. They will never understand us. Personally, I'm left of center on most issues. I'm a liberal-leaning independent. But as far as the Middle East is concerned I'm done with them. I say, let them stew in their own juices. They don't want our help? Fine.

Pull our people out of the Middle East and all the predominantly Muslim countries. And by all the Middle East I mean Israel as well. Stop foreign aid to those countries, ALL those countries. Let the Brits, the French, the Russians, the Chinese, hell I don't care who, deal with them. If we pulled our people out of the 20 or so Islamic countries and Israel and cut off all aid to those countries I'll bet we'd save a trillion dollars right there.

If Israel or the Saudis or the Libyans need our help, they can ask for it and help defray the costs. We'll give them advisers and technical support but no boots on the ground.

Let them find someone else to be the Great Satan, their boogey-man, we are handing in our resignation. You folks are on your own. C-ya. Buh-bye. Adios. No hard feelings. Don't go away mad, just go away.

We've got Americans who need jobs and schools and medical care and that money could be used to improve their lives. If you don't appreciate our generosity, that's fine, we can use the money at home.

dsb.

If Democracy means laws are chosen by the majority or populace, why don't we put Obama care up for a nation wide vote? It is because modern day democracy involves much more corruption than it did when the concept was first formulated.

Obama does not care what anyone wants or needs. He is only interested in pursuing his agenda at all costs. This would be the same in Egypt. It used to be called dictorial socialism, today it is known as democracy.

Obama is a cancer and must be removed from the body of the government of the US. Vote Romney Ryan in November.

The news media wants Obama so lets show them who really runs this country and vote Obama out of office in November.

Save our country from Obama and the news media. We will then have a goverment capable and willing to deal with countries such as Egypt!

Romney/Ryan 2012

For those of you attacking dsb's definition of democracy, there are a number of European countries that have laws making it a crime to deny the holocaust happened - so, do you not consider these countries democracies?

Personally, I agree with dsb's definition. I wouldn't want to live in a ME style democracy, but that doesn't mean they are not democracies.

True American Tim,

So, even if Obama gets a majority of the popular vote again, you want him removed from office because you don't like how he governs? That's your definition of a democracy?

I don't like Obama's economic policies or leadership style, so I'll likely be voting for Romney, but if Obama wins the electoral vote again, I'll support him as president.

Staged attempts at counter Psi. Ops. most likely coming from our CIA and paid for by Mr. Obama but they forget we have educations here.. The movie they are bitching about was proved to be based in historical fact.. No matter how poorly made it was it is not subject to any censorship for hate propaganda either..

This burning of a paper book means nothing to Christians, but with their fanatical cult teachings Islam cultists just can't understand it.. A silly attempt to stir up a religious rant from US Christians and it just is not gonna happen.. The Egyptian government will most likely get pleas for his release from congregations over here because from childhood we are taught to love and forgive while they are taught to hate and be intolerant.. But do not confuse this thinking with being weak and allowing these cultist jerk offs run rough shod over us because freedom is worth fighting for.. A minority wants us to forsake the values that founded this great country and erase it..

They want us to have a blaspheme/censorship law here so their lies and hate can grow in the USA and around the free world..Go back to your sacrificing of goats and child molestation rituals you dirty cult of hate worshipers..

For all you "Democracy" posters. The governmental system of the United States Of America is not a democracy. We are a Constitutional Republic with a Democratically Elected Representativwe Government. The founding fathers structurted our government in this manner to ensure the minority would not be subject to the tyranny of the majority and to put in place an overiding tenet (The Constitution Of The United States) that would be the basis for all laws passed by the majority of Congress (democratic process) to be judged enforcable or not (the Supreme Court took this power against Thomas Jefferson even though it is not Constitutional). Also, the Constitution does have mechanisms for Congress to override and or limit the power the Supreme Court but has never done so.

KenR,

Nice post and thanks for clearly and concisely stating how our government is structured.

@KenR-2238364

"For all you "Democracy" posters. The governmental system of the United States Of America is not a democracy."

HUH? You are thinking of a pure or direct democracy and thinking that is we are not a direct democracy then we are not a democracy. Incorrect. We are a democracy (although a rather sickly one) with a Representative style of government.

Not a democracy??

Ken-R.

You are absolutely correct on what our form of government was set up as by our founding fathers. What you fail to recognize is that people like Roosevelt, Truman, and even Obama has slowly changed that type of government into a socialist form of government.

You failed to point out that the federal government was not even allowed to collect taxes in the beginning. All form of social welfare was to responsibility of the church, not the government. We didn't have a federal tax until after the turn of the 20th century. You also failed to mention that in the beginning you had to be a land owner to even be able to vote as they were the one with a true stake in the countries future.

SO although you have hit on the very minor outlines of what our country used to be, it a fact that it is today a far cry from a free true democracy or a republic due to many greedy power hungry leaders that have occupied the white house since this country was formed.

Obama has actually found ways to skirt the actual due process in our democratic process and make rules and laws without the vote of our congesional branch. So the American form of government you have descibed as what once was in America is no more.

Face the facts, Obama is very bad for this country and has the support of many people that have nothing to lose if he remains in office for four more years. So if you have nothing to lose and the noews media's distorted polls say he is leading, why not vote for him. Everyone wants to be assoicated with winners. The only problem is that if he is re-elected. we will all lose by the time he is done.

So if you vote for Obama you may think you are a winner but the truth of the matter is you are only voting to assure our and your failure in the future.

Grow a backbone America, vote Obama out of office while there is still time to repaire the damage and eventual destruction of the American way of life.

@b23h

I stand by my statement as it is taken from several of the Federalist Papers discussing the style of Government to be implemented. The Constitution is an outcome of those discussions where the phrases "A constitutional Republice with a democratically elected Government" and "...the minority would not be subject to the tyranny of the majority." are clearly stated (read "The 5000 Years Leap" for the condensed version). If we were a democracy, the President or Supreme Court would not have the ability or authority to veto or strike down any law passed by Congress and the Constitution would be irrelevant because the Congress could pass nay law they desired by simple majority vote.

That said, the Congress does have the ability to democratically overturn a veto by super majority vote and they do have the ability limit the Supreme Court authority, both of which are provided for by the Constitution.

Additionally, if the people of the United Staes think the process and governing document, the Constitution, needs to be changed, an Amendment process is provided for in the Constitution as well.

Sorry for many of you big D Democrats, but we are not a democracy. We have a democratic approach for certain Governmental processes (passing laws, electing the President and Congress) but little else. We are a republic (and I know you all hate the word republic used for anything, especially Republican) thus we have a centralized government with regulatory agencies that implement the democratically enacted laws under the auspices of the Executive Branch (ALL governmental agencies serve at the pleasure of the President).

As for democracy and mob rule, Aristole identifed that problem and his viewpoint was discussed at length in the Federalist Papers. The dangers of an implemented democracy were the basis for deciding on a republic based on a Constitution and a Republican form of Government. In our Government, democracy is a process, not a form of governance.

King Richard should have finished the job

Muslims try to downplay Christ by comparing him to Muhammad.

Islam is a slave religion with it's women on the bottom rung.

Most (if not all, but media censorship may not reveal) use FGM(female genital mutilation), a sadistic practice used to control the women and girls by removing the "male" body parts(clitoris,labia,and even sewing the vagina closed) to control the women and put guilt and shame on them, and more importantly to limit their sexual capacity. Afghanistan is not listed as a nation using FGM, yet it does, the information is censored. Egypt uses this barbaric method on it's girls and women.

Naive Americans who fall for the tricks of islam and join the cult one-sided religion are completely ignorant of the ramifications of this evil system and what it world plans are for the future.

KenR,

Your response to b23h was almost perfect.

I would question why you brought up the "big D Democrats", though. It seems to me that many, many Americans of all political stripes have little to no understanding of our form of government and its many processes. To single out one party seems a little obtuse.

Just a thought.

Hambone

Sorry, I guess I got carried away, and paid for it.

Hey, not a big deal, KenR.

Everything else was spot on.

Where are the protest riots in front of the Egyptian embassies all over the world?

Good on them ... payback's a bitch, "Christians" ...

yawn. Nobody burning egyptian flags here. They're the psychotic animals, not us. Move along.

More horse crap. Blasphemy a crime? Only to the weak minded unsophisticated savages that believe in fairy tales like those found in the Bible, Torah, and Koran

@ DSB

that the populace gets to choose exactly what laws they want.

You are joking right ? That statement is the most ignorant statement I have seen yet in the 5 years I have been on the News vine. The populace do not, I repeat DO NOT get to choose what laws they/we want. Special interests and the lobbyists do. And if they do not get the laws they want, some power hungry rich elitists like Mitt Romney will. We the people have been out of the loop for so long its a shame.

DSB, I am not not sure what drugs your on, you need to get off them now for your own safety, and the safety of those around you.

You know, I decided it wasn't worth responding to any of the latter posts.

Roger Z is quite correct in calling DSB's statement "that the populace gets to choose exactly what laws they want" into question. It was something that struck me this morning that made me feel kinda shamed that it didn't hit me before. As this is a representational democracy the populace does not vote on particular laws, our representatives do.

Again this is a basic political science concept that citizens in a democracy should not get wrong. I see DSB as being wrong on both of his major points.

@KenR-2238364 (2.44)

I will keep this brief. The USA uses a representational form of democracy, and is therefor one of the different types of democracies. The USA is organized as a constitutional republic in part to control the potential excesses of what a direct democracy might do. Just because the organizational form is a republic does not mean it is not a democracy in action or intent.

I expect your statement; "If we were a democracy, the President or Supreme Court would not have the ability or authority to veto or strike down any law passed by Congress and the Constitution would be irrelevant because the Congress could pass nay law they desired by simple majority vote" is based upon the premise that such would be possible if we were a direct or pure democracy. Simply said we are not a direct democracy so all you've done is make a "straw man" argument.

I think one can see evidence of the janus faced nature of our political organizational style in the phrase you yourself quoted; "A constitutional Republice with a democratically elected Government".

We are both a democracy and a republic.

poor Jim....

it doesnt matter, dont you get it? just because some laws are the same in most "good books" means nothing, and can be considered nothing more than either a base for laws, or morals for people to live by. it doesnt have to come from a book, and i think in a lot of cases in the world of TODAY, it has no basis.

show me a "turn the other cheek" in any one countries book of law? well...

thing is coincidence or other, take your pick, but to me it sounds like you are more upset, people dont live by YOUR laws, and perhaps given the sentiment on newsvine alone, its a great thing. otherwise people would be protruding from stakes on the side of the road, for breaking a next to nothing law as a punishment.

when will these people learn! let him go its Free speech and the US supports his attempt to offend us. We not agree with your insane laws. Yes some Christians are offended im sure but we dont want any punishment thrown at him. We respect free speech.

Ahh, DSB, do you need to be reminded that in OUR democracy, l50 years ago, it was legal to own another human being and that women have had the right to vote for only 92 years of our 225 year old democratic system? Was this the "will of the people" or only those who wielded influence. While you may be right that true "democracy" represents the will of the people, we must also recognize that, as a nation, the term "freedom for all" means just that and the rights guaranteed in the bill of rights and the constitution apply to all.This should remain the same in all nations that adopt "democratic" ideals. Nations that use democratic means to install religious leadership are in effect, theocracies in operation if not in name.

so they burned the bible.. so what print another? we dont care..

The moooslums have not brought anything of value to the human race. They have not invented a labor saving device, they have not developed any medicines at all, they have not advanced detection techniques for any disease, they do not have adequate water supply, they do not have effective sewers, they do not raise a crop of value, they do not make anything marketable in the world, they do not have an employment rate which is making significant use of their available labor.

YET they want to destroy America and her associated countries. WHY? Because of some fool who allegedly went into a well a few hundred years ago and is 'planning' to emerge at 'the correct time' and lead his people to VICTORY (meaning death to infidels) at that time.

Here is what these mooslums, these r$g heads these murderers have accomplished. They have perfected beheadings to the point where they now use just ONE slash instead of two or three, that is so much more humane. They have perfected the fine art of rioting at a moment’s notice, they have perfected the development and use of fire bombs and similar explosive devices so that they do not need immense munitions factories or supplies.

Their IED's can be built on the kitchen table by the kids and grandkids with just minimum supervision by the adults.

Oh yes these people who hate us really hate themselves. Instead of accepting what they have and working to improve their 'lot' they prefer to rob, to rape, to plunder, to murder and to destroy property and human life as if it was their mandate and duty.

A few well placed missiles from subs, warships, aircraft carriers in the region would send a message loud and clear to these savages.

STOP the foolishness or there are more of these missiles to be shared with you.

Apologies by the coward in the Oval Office, money from the American taxpayer courtesy of Hillary (I love Alinsky) and warm plaudits from ‘Plugs’ Biden are simply not in the best interest of the nation and are not going to keep us strong and the savages from our gates.

Dump these 535 cowards who infest the Congress, put most of them in prison and start fresh with Patriotic Americans whose mission is to preserve the greatest experiment in democracy and in a Republic ever.

That is the goal. Oust the fraud and his minions and put them in prison also..

May we all find our way in this very troubled world with divine guidance.

Josh...poor English and syntax aside you are generally correct. If anyone would want to rank world countries based on education, commerce, infra-structure, equality of women, innovation, life expectancy, education, and stability of government and a general high quality of life every single muslim country would be vying for the bottom. Islam has proved to the world that as a hate filled religious culture that demands control of a secular government it will degrade and destroy every country that espouses this backward, corrupt culture.

Well said, Jack !

Maybe they might learn that American reaction to anyone burning the Bible's new testament would be, "Whatever".

wow Jack, why dont you go check the rank of America on all those topics and you will see we are very close to the bottom ourselves. Before judging others look to yourself.

Josh and Jack

The moooslums have not brought anything of value to the human race.

My jaw just dropped. I know Americans are an ignorant bunch, but this is incredible.

If you have surgery tomorrow, it's a good bet that at least one of the surgical instruments used was invented by a Muslim. Interested in wind energy? Windmills were invented by a Muslim. Play chess? Muslim. Frequency analysis? Muslim. Movable type? Muslim. Eyeglasses? Muslim.

I could go on for hours. You both are so incredibly ignorant there are no words. Wait--maybe a Muslim invented some.

Actually, at the time of the Muslim expansion into N. Africa, the Mediterranean and Europe, their's was by far the most advanced culture on earth. Why they went into decline is an interesting subject for historians, but the European Renaissance owes the majority of Western culture's "awakening" to Islamic advances in science, the arts, manufacturing, agriculture, etc. What they've become now is mere shadow of their former greatness, but that doesn't mean they should be discounted based on the lunatic ravings of the few radicals. I've been to the Middle East for two tours; they are, for the most part, a consumer society, make very few products for the world market and are relevant among the global community largely due to oil and geography--but you can say the same thing about much of Africa, more than a little of S. America, and a good deal of the Far East. A Muslim backlash against radicalism in their own religion is starting to emerge--once it does and once a secular Islam emerges, their potential for progress is unlimited.

DebDem, your name says it all. America is the greatest nation on earth, so go live somewhere else and do not try changing MY country (based on your comment this obviously is not YOUR country, just your place of habitat) into something else. A free and minimal Government country is MY America.

Also, not all ARABS aere Muslims and not all Muslims are ARABS. Was it the ARAB culture that invented these things or was it the MUSLIMS. The MUSLIM "religion" is a method of social and cultural domination that has had several instances of purging their ranks of educated people (scientisits, teachers, philosophers, etc.). This happened most recently in Iran when the Ayatollah Khomeni came to power and the Islamists hung and murdered a large segment of the educated population as a mechanism for gaining more control and ensuring there would be no free thought to challenge them. It hasn't worked in the past and will never work for long. But nonetheless, the MUSLIMS who are fundementalists to the Koran will purposefully take civilization back to the stone age if allowed.

Patter123

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Chess was invened in India in the 6th century. Moveable type was first used in China in the 11th century, and Guttenburg invented the printing press and a seperate moveable tyle system in Germany in the 15th century. Eyeglasses? Italy in the 13th century. The first windmill was built in Alexandria in the 1st century, long before Islam existed.

You should be more careful who you label as ignorant. If there is anything else I can debunk for you feel free to let me know.

The first windmill was built in Alexandria in the 1st century, long before Islam existed.

Heron of Alexandria built the first device to capture and use the power of the wind, he also expanded the understanding of optics greatly.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/HeronAlexandria-Dateien/WindMill.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/HeronAlexandria2.htm&h=406&w=519&sz=54&tbnid=jEX8OcS-Qkn3iM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=115&zoom=1&usg=__nWtID58IrBsvkVXbyrwlXUl43hE=&docid=TZeH04rkT9AOcM&sa=X&ei=BF1kULHLPOPC0QGsn4CAAg&ved=0CEcQ9QEwCA&dur=318

Actually, at the time of the Muslim expansion into N. Africa, the Mediterranean and Europe, their's was by far the most advanced culture on earth.

The Muslim expansion into the Mediterranean and Europe was one of war and conquest, nothing more. Yes, the sciences and mathmatics began in the Middle East, in places like Egypt and Babylon, but that was centuries before Islam. The Muslim culture was certainly not the most advanced culture of the time. In fact, Islam is largly responsible for the decline of the Middle East culture in much the same way as the fall of Rome led to the intellectual decline in Europe; science and philosphy were rejected for religion and superstition. Western Europe owes nothing to Islam for its "awkening" in science and mathmatics, that honor belongs to the Greeks.

Jim, you are spouting the claims of Texan history books.

Dig a little deeper before you mouth off. You won't look so stupid.

Patter 123

BULL@!$%#!

...algebra?

algebra?

Diopantus of Alexandra is the father of algebra. Historically, the Greeks were well before Islam. There is no way a Muslim scientist could not have invented well known, pre-existing, common knowledge

See this link from the University of St Andrews

Diophantus, often known as the 'father of algebra', is best known for his Arithmetica, a work on the solution of algebraic equations and on the theory of numbers. However,
essentially nothing is known of his life and there has been much debate regarding the date at which he lived.

here is the reason for the common misunderstanding

However, an Arabic manuscript in the library Astan-i Quds (The Holy Shrine
library) in Meshed, Iran has a title claiming it is a translation by Qusta ibn Luqa, who died in 912, of Books IV to VII of Arithmeticaby Diophantus of Alexandria.

http://www-history.mcs.st-and.ac.uk/Biographies/Diophantus.html

it can be confirmed at Wichita state... history department. as well

http://www.math.wichita.edu/history/men/diophantus.html

Diophantus

"Father of algebra"c. 250 C.E.

The "Silver Age" of Alexandria, also known as the Later Alexandrian Age, was about 250 - 350 C.E.

Diophantus, a Greek algebraist of this era,

This era, was well before Islam

was thought to belong to this time period, but there is some uncertainty to the exact time frame of his life. Little is known of his personal life except for an algebraic puzzle
rhyme determining his age from Anthologia Palatina which is a collection of problems
dating from the 5th and 6th centuries.

"Here lies Diophantus." The wonder behold- Through art algebraic, the stone tells how old: "God gave him his boyhood one-sixth of his life, One-twelfth more as youth while whiskers grew rife; And then yet one-seventh eve marriage begun; In five years there came a bouncing new son. Alas, the dear child of master and sage Met fate at just half his dad's final
age. Four years yet his studies gave solace from grief; Then leaving scenes earthly he, too found relief."

Islam or Muslims had nothing to do with this. The only reason to make the connection, is political correctness. Lying, distorting reality.

If you want to try astronomy next, look up the "Almagest" by Claudius Ptolemaeus

Yes, excellent point, the Greeks studied science and math well before the "Muslims" came into being.

Islam is an out of date expired religion with it's goal in brainwashing and dominance over females, it is a slave religion (or has become one) designed to control and shame women, and subject it's followers to a pyramid system of elites on top and followers on the bottom.

FGM (female genital mutilation) is the game, and the humans dumb enough not to question the idealology behind it are the victims.

Most of the muslim "inventions" you're talking about are just rediscovered inventions from Egypt, Greece, India, Rome and China. But what have they contributed in oh, the last 400 years or so?

And yet where Christianity has flourished (Europe, US, Russia,) the most advancements have emerged in science, literature, technology. Germany leads in much chemistry, engineering, pharmaceuticals, etc. U.S. also chief among nations, became greatest nation on earth. ALL because of Christianity, which brings civilization. Our civilization today in America owes much if not all to Judeo-Christianity. But look closely at us now. How much traces of this only Faith are now left in our government, homes, schools, businesses? And where are we heading?

Dwight

"And where are we heading?"

We are climbing out of our need for superstition. We are questioning the idea of unquestionable authority. We are finally beginning to explore the potential of human free will limited only by physical and natural laws, and not by arbitrary bronze age guidelines.

It's a great time to be a human. Many of the opportunities we have today are existing for the first time in the history of our species. Maybe we can begin to atone for our history of bloody savagery in the name of our imaginary friends.

Alex
Think a minute. He called for the makers of the film to be 'brought to justice' because the people of Egypt (and any of the other mid-east countries)have never lived in a society where the media wasn't controlled by the government. Therefore they simply assume that anything coming from America has the government's approval.

Now,Morsi full-well understands our freedom of speech but he wasn't actually talking to us, his statement was meant for his citizens who have no real comprehension of what 'freedom of speech' means.

It really is no different than people here who have never lived in another country (especially one run by Muslims or any other theocracy). People here simply can't imagine that other countries have different cultures and values. The entire problem stems from everyone thinking that all people are alike. They aren't. We are all shaped by the society we are raised into. The solution is education and communication.

dsb- I definitely understand (and basically agree with) what you are saying. I suppose I am more lamenting the fact that it is true.

The U.S. has a price on the heads of a few people,Osama Bin Laden was one such person,that are not U.S. citizens. Egypt is following suit.The U.S.doesn't want Iran to have nuclear weapons yet we have them.We want other countries terrorists and drug lords extradited to our country but we think that these other countries shouldn't be allowed to do the same to our citizens.I consider that arrogance on the part of the U.S. and yet we wonder why our countrymen are referred to as The Ugly Americans.

DSB, you are absolutely correct. A democracy only means that people choose their rulers/laws. A mob is the ultimate democracy and can be capable of horrible things. Basically, whatever the majority wants goes. This even bothered the ancient Greeks and they fell prey to its weaknesses What the U.S. has is much more: a constitutional (rule of law) liberal democracy. Now , GOP people, don't start foaming at the mouth. "Liberal" in this sense is a Political Science term that means tolerant. There is a democracy ( a republic actually) but there is protection for minorities, people, ideas that the majority may not like. This may be at time very angering to the majority (as it often is in the U.S.) but it can be the difference between life and death for anyone who is not a majority member. THAT is what these new democracies have to learn and what the U.S. needs to keep reminding ourselves is important.

@Ingsd

"A democracy only means that people choose their rulers/laws" Wrong.

Democracy is a process that springs out the the competition between ideas generated by freedom of speech.

"A mob is the ultimate democracy and can be capable of horrible things."

Does a mob vote, or are they simply doing whatever they are doing "out of one mind", because for instance they were inflamed by some demogogue or another. If you conflate the actions of a mob with the deliberative process that most call democracy, just because implicitly lot of people participate in either activity is missing the meaning of what a democracy is.

Alex:

You think these camel pumpers should dictate our free speech? Grow a set of Moohamands!!

Staged attempts at counter Psi. Ops. most likely coming from our CIA and paid for by Mr. Obama but they forget we have educations here.. The movie they are bitching about was proved to be based in historical fact.. No matter how poorly made it was it is not subject to any censorship for hate propaganda either..

This burning of a paper book means nothing to Christians, but with their fanatical cult teachings Islam cultists just can't understand it.. A silly attempt to stir up a religious rant from US Christians and it just is not gonna happen.. The Egyptian government will most likely get pleas for his release from congregations over here because from childhood we are taught to love and forgive while they are taught to hate and be intolerant.. But do not confuse this thinking with being weak and allowing these cultist jerk offs run rough shod over us because freedom is worth fighting for.. A minority wants us to forsake the values that founded this great country and erase it..

They want us to have a blaspheme/censorship law here so their lies and hate can grow in the USA and around the free world..Go back to your sacrificing of goats and child molestation rituals you dirty cult of hate worshipers..

b23h

....Does a mob vote? ....

Of course, that's how we got the Tea Party House and the obstructionism that ensued.

For democracy to be a practical method of determining governance it requires an informed and enlightened populace. Do you seriously think we hav that here in the US?

Judging by knee jerk, anti-Islamic ignorance demonstrated in a majority of these posts, it's a good thing that American democracy is tempered by it's constitutional restrictions and protections of minorities.

The founders realized that a majority of the populace they wanted to be self-governing were also a bunch of illiterate and uneducated rabble, suspicious of each other and anything else that might challenge their unexamined way of thinking. And yet they were able to forge a constitution capable of producing one of the freest nations in history using a tempered democracy.

We've had 230+ years to work on this experiment in self-governance and we still haven't perfected it.

I say give these Middle East fledgling democracies at least a few generations to orient themselves before judging them. Until then we should support them in any manner we can.

@culheath

"b23h

....Does a mob vote? ....

Of course, that's how we got the Tea Party House and the obstructionism that ensued."

While I am not a fan of the Tea Party, I think your statement associating them with a "mob" is a false equivalence and is a cheesy move. Overall I am trying to retort to the idea that "a mob is the ultimate democracy" which I think is an absurd idea and displays a misunderstanding of the interconnected web of rights that we have in our democracy (freedom of speech, freedom of the press, representative democracy).

b23h

@culheath

While I am not a fan of the Tea Party, I think your statement associating them with a "mob" is a false equivalence and is a cheesy move. Overall I am trying to retort to the idea that "a mob is the ultimate democracy" which I think is an absurd idea and displays a misunderstanding of the interconnected web of rights that we have in our democracy (freedom of speech, freedom of the press, representative democracy).

I'll tell you why I consider the Tea party as a "mob" and why my comment is not in the least "cheesy"; the Tea party is a group of citizens acting on a visceral, emotional level to concepts pandered to them by corporate/political interests and which they haven't thought through at all and if they had they would realize they are acting against their own self-interest by supporting misinformation and outright lies (for starters think "death panels" and the "birther insanity". They basically have been collected and grown into a lynch mob against anything Obama by plutocratic vested interests who are using them for their own agenda.

They elected representatives who are ignorant and naive to the process of democratic governance and through their demand of uncompromising absolutes, which they see as capitulation and defeat, have created an obstructionist and non-working government. Then they have the audacity to turn around and blame the government for not getting anything done during Obama's first term (even though the Obama administration has accomplished an enormous amount) . They represent exactly the sort of un-democratic government the founders were trying to avoid.

Add the fact that the Tea Party does not represent anywhere near the majority of the population and yet as a minority are holding the government hostage to their extreme views, which they themselves cannot explain outside of religious or nativist cliches. They don't actually know the issues or have rational reasons for their stance, they are simply reacting to propaganda calculated to create a mob mentality.

I understand they have every right to be useful idiots, that doesn't mean I have to acquiesce to their presence and actions as though they are a rational part of the democratic system because they aren't; they are a pollution to the democratic process and their obstructionism and unwillingness to cooperate and compromise is proof of it.

@culheath

Please do keep in mind that I was responding to someone positing that "a mob is the ultimate democracy" and calling that into question. When you made the equivalence of a mob with the Tea Party, I then called it cheesy. I still do not think it is an appropriate characterization, but I want to emphasize that I agree with every whit, every jot of what you said with the exception of that characterization.

Oh,and one last thing. Given this is a democracy and we do have freedom of speech I must say that they have the right to promote their views and we have the right to retort. Given such while I am not happy with what I see as an excess of obstructionism, I would not characterize the Tea Party as "the sort of un-democratic government" or as "pollution."

So while I see them as very misguided or as you stated "useful idiots" or as having a false consciousness, this would not be much of a democracy if they weren't allowed to prattle on.

I agree with you. Please don't think I was attacking your premises, because I wasn't. I was simply characterizing the Tea Party as a "mob" type grouping because to me they have all the hallmarks of how a mob operates... which is to say emotionally and without much thought.

Let me add that I am enjoying the erudition of your posts.

I agree with just about everything you said. Except that they 'must realize'...they don't have to realize anything. Although if they don't, it won't change us. Our little 'experiment' is working and most probably will be copied elsewhere. In fact, it already has been.

The sad part is that the old guard in the repressive countries will have to either die out or be thrown out and the younger generation will have to take over before they fully grasp the entire concept. The good part is that with the worldwide communications we now have I see the changes coming fast and furious.

The world is changing. And hopefully for the good. The 'birthing pains' won't be easy. But then not much worthwhile is ever easy. Freedoms are well worth fighting for. We're lucky on that we had several generations go before us and they were the actual fighters. It's now up to other countries to do the same.

Good luck to the world. Maybe in another generation all people will have the freedoms they want and deserve.

Communication technology will expand the concept of free speech, plain and simple. Even the radicals who protested over the video depicting Mohammed in a bad light, want just as much for the technology to work for their own protests to be viewed. The world is getting used to and bored with religious crackpots of all denominations. Religious crackpots need something to complain about, and so therefore need to surf the web to find such items as the obscure videos of Mohammed to rant about. Why isn't there a big to do about the recent news item. "Jesus's wife", and Catholics all over the globe throwing a fit...because modern Catholics are fairly well known as "technology savvy". Egypt has to function in a modern world, and that means technology, and that means running across ideas that are non Islamic. If the Islamic rioters go out and destroy property, it's the Egyptian police and court system that has to deal with it, not the US courts. That's the new Egyptian presidents political dilemma. He can complain about the old religious nuts that are US residents until the cows come home, but he must understand that if Egypt is going to participate in international commerce, Ideas, like the rats which carried the Black Plague to Europe, are going to ride the internet, and Islamic fundamentalism is going to get sick and die from these ideas their religious system is not immune from. Ideas are the virus of free speech.

Likewise denying holocaust is an opinion, not a crime. Yet some countries make it a crime and punishable by law. In comparison Nanjing Massacre is denied by right-wing japanese and there is no law makes it a crime.

Double standard and hypocracy exist everywhere.

Denying the holocaust is a crime in Germany.This country knows what the perverted nazis did to their country.A long jail sentence awaits deniers in Germany or just a short trip to be thrown in the nearest river and drowned.Get your facts straight Heinrich and stop inventing history or current affairs.Or better .go to germany and you can meet your fate there!!

Uhh bart go back and re-read his post and then untwist your knickers ok?

Henrich -------- Of course you're right. It is a double standard. Freedom of speech should be a universal right. Those that deny the Holocaust can easily be demonstrated to be lying by copious evidence.

And , you're right , the Rape of Nanjing was an atrocity of staggering magnitude. Japan , at the time , actually had newspapers reported on contests by Japanese solders to see which one could behead the most Chinese. You can actually find the articles and see photos. The Japanese also still deny the profound atrocities they committed during WW2. They should be confronted with the abundant evidence that obliterates their denials.

Here is where the democratic process starts to show it's tensions. Given that one has the understanding that freedom of speech is not an end in itself, but the means to a more perfect understanding of reality. The assumption is that a populace well trained in critical thinking skills, educated, and engaging in testing their thought in conversation with others (freedom of speech) will likely come to a bettter approximation of reality due to the competition in the "marketplace of ideas".

Here is where it gets interesting and potentially dangerous. Germany has decided that they have in fact reached a conclusion, and it is that Nazi's are inappropriate. No argument from me there. What other conclusions might one reach that is no longer up for question, and when are we really sure of our certitude?

I think there is a strong analogy between the idea that freedom of speech is a road toward truth, and how one thinks about education. One always needs to keep in mind that there is some level of historicity in our conclusions (that is that they may be wrong or just an approximation of truth that will be further fleshed out at another point), verses the idea that one is being educated in the hope of coming to some sort of conclusion. What's the point in a education in which one can only say "I really can't say".

I think the same tension exists between an education and the process of democracy as the aim of both is as close to an approximation of truth as circumstances permit.

So what? He tore up and burned a book. We have millions upon millions of them in print. We can print more. No big deal. This cleric can criticize and demean it any way he wants to--it's his opinion, and as Omnipotus points out, opinions are not illegal. This cleric can deny anything he wishes about the book. It's his point of view.

Am I going to go out and say "Death to Clerics," "Death to Islam," "Death to Egypt"? I can if I want to, but it would prove nothing. These would be my opinions, and as stated, opinions aren't a crime. (BTW, I was going to write, "Death to Mohammed," but he has been dead for a very long time--just so you know. And that's NOT an opinion, that's a fact.)

I'm secure enough in what I believe that I don't need or want to spout radical statements trying to hurt someone. I don't believe in hurting others just so that I can. I don't believe in calling down death and destruction on others because they don't have the same viewpoints as me. A book is really nothing. It's the words and ideas in the book that are important. A book can rot and fall apart, no big deal. A book is not "Holy;" it is paper, glue and binding, nothing more. The ideas and peaceful and loving thoughts contained in one are what should be remembered. If a book calls down hate, destruction, harm, death on others because others don't agree with it, I think that book should be destroyed. Again--my (not illegal) opinion.

This cleric has lost his way. He is attacking an inanimate object trying to stir up hate and violence. I laugh at him. His actions should be mocked across the planet. What a pathetic behavior! How could anyone value his opinion? Those that do value his point of view are as lame as he is. Why do people allow themselves to be so easily led?

(BTW, I do not embrace any of the major religions as my belief system. I find them disgusting in their intolerance and violent stand points. How sad for the followers of these religions to let their leaders diminish them in an all-encompassing and ignorant opinion of others.)

Zapper that is the best post here, I couldnt agree with you more.

For a religion that so psychotic about idolatry, they sure worship a bound stack of paper.

You are correct. They ARE their religion. It governs every aspect of their lives. Only the wealthy are educated enough to venture out into the world, and they, by design, do not allow the rest of the population to become educated enough to question the religion that keeps their world the way they like it.

Even many of the Muslims who come to the US have no intention of allowing their women and female children to partake of the freedoms they themselves are seeking when they land on our shores.

I think you guys are right. While I don't begrudge anyone's right to worship as he/she pleases, their imposing of religious doctrine on peoples' rights (such to free speech, education and even access to contraception, etc) krap has to stop - if they are to have any hope at advancing.

Hi Screm!

Keep in mind islam is 400-500 yrs younger that christianity and what we were doing 400-500 yrs ago. It must be a phase that religions go through.

Good point - in the Europe of the "Middle Ages", education was reserved for the Churches and the Ruling Classes, and "Non-believers" were dealt with harshly.

By definition, an authoritarian mindset cant tolerate any competing authorities. Democracy is going to have a tough time there.

Yeah Islam and Christianity both have big problems with truth and candor. The Vatican is right there with the militant Muslims when it comes to blasphemy. Both religions know how fragile they are--how the light of day will make them wilt and squirm.

Not all Muslims are terrorists but 90% of all terrorism is by Muslims,Read the Koran.It´s all there.Islam as an ideology is VERY dangerous and deadly.Not all Muslims support forcing their sharia down the throats of people.But much too many do.They demand freedom to shout"death to Christians,Buddhists,Hindu,and Jews." Yet if someone attacks their prophet or book,they go ballistic.The Islamic finatics are like the mafia in their tactics. Does anyone still need more proof?

For 30 years the Irish Republicans were planting bombs in London and that was basically about religion, the Protestants in the north and Catholics in the rest of the island. So not all terrorists are/were Muslims, but I'd agree to 90%, including those in Mindanao in southern Philippines.

Religions are definitely not taking humanity in the right direction. Wish there were something we could do about that.

Religions are definitely not taking humanity in the right direction. Wish there were something we could do about that.

@Brit in the pit,

So did the Soviets, the Red Chinese, the North Koreans and the Pol Pot regime take humanity in a better direction?

The all had the same weakness as the religions; intorerance of competing ideas.

Is this where we suppose to attack all Muslims and demand they have their heads cut off?

The moooslums have not brought anything of value to the human race. They have not invented a labor saving device, they have not developed any medicines at all, they have not advanced detection techniques for any disease, they do not have adequate water supply, they do not have effective sewers, they do not raise a crop of value, they do not make anything marketable in the world, they do not have an employment rate which is making significant use of their available labor.

YET they want to destroy America and her associated countries. WHY? Because of some fool who allegedly went into a well a few hundred years ago and is 'planning' to emerge at 'the correct time' and lead his people to VICTORY (meaning death to infidels) at that time.

Here is what these mooslums, these r$g heads these murderers have accomplished. They have perfected beheadings to the point where they now use just ONE slash instead of two or three, that is so much more humane. They have perfected the fine art of rioting at a moment’s notice, they have perfected the development and use of fire bombs and similar explosive devices so that they do not need immense munitions factories or supplies.

Their IED's can be built on the kitchen table by the kids and grandkids with just minimum supervision by the adults.

Oh yes these people who hate us really hate themselves. Instead of accepting what they have and working to improve their 'lot' they prefer to rob, to rape, to plunder, to murder and to destroy property and human life as if it was their mandate and duty.

A few well placed missiles from subs, warships, aircraft carriers in the region would send a message loud and clear to these savages.

STOP the foolishness or there are more of these missiles to be shared with you.

Apologies by the coward in the Oval Office, money from the American taxpayer courtesy of Hillary (I love Alinsky) and warm plaudits from ‘Plugs’ Biden are simply not in the best interest of the nation and are not going to keep us strong and the savages from our gates.

Dump these 535 cowards who infest the Congress, put most of them in prison and start fresh with Patriotic Americans whose mission is to preserve the greatest experiment in democracy and in a Republic ever.

That is the goal. Oust the fraud and his minions and put them in prison also..

May we all find our way in this very troubled world with divine guidance.

Josh, according to Obama you're dead wrong! In one of his lengthy speeches he enlightened people that it was the muslims who are the cradle of civilization and are responsible for all advancements humans have made.

I still believe that the uprisings in the Mideast countries were orchestrated by Washington for the purpose of giving the hard core muslims more power.

Islam will never have freedom of speech. Just read the Koran which Muslims take as the inerrant word of Allah. The freedom to say what you want can't exist under the Koran.

The way I see it, Jesus represents the ultimate understanding of God and this understanding heals all Earthly wounds to God...demonstrates God's own healing power unto Itself. There is nothing God cannot tolerate or understand because everything and everyone is in fact a part of God. If you are a part of God yet 'under God', then you act with God's knowledge and consent. The religions say the same thing from different points of view.

who cares

exactly. as we discover who, we discover whether or not time heals all wounds. Oh yes, ...easily. It will show up here because It makes sense. I am convinced...that's enough for me.

Same God, different colored hats.

Well, that's just swell!

Then why the bloody hell are you we killing each other other this ****?!

Don't know if you heard that on Nov.20th the new regulated internet law will become in force. This is obama's way of regulating what is on the net. Haven't read this by the mainstream have you. that is what is happening to our rights through obama and the dem party. And they write an article like this???those who speak of a dem? we are heading in that direction. From A republicism to a mobocracy. Oh well, guess obama wants the Us to be equal with the middle east countries. Then we all can be a one happy family.

One more thought: when you have a minoirity take away prayer out of school, from saying under God in the pledge of Alligence. stopping veteran funerals because the mourners talk about God and country, then we are in real trouble. And again, this article is written. What a joke!!

So you'd be fine with it if your child's teacher led all of the children in the classroom in a prayer to the Great Goddess of Heaven and Earth?

Mary Baker - As usual, you and your ilk throw out an unreasonable supposed event far removed from reality as the counter to a sane and rationale approach to identifying a basis for cultural atandards and societal morals for us all to live by. Complete freedom = anarchy. That doesn't work as a society. There has to be some controls bound by standards adopted by the society as a whole.

Did Jesus bear arms?

I'm pretty sure you just showed off hate speach not free speach. and how dumb are you? Were a nation split directly in two by completely devided on every desicion beliefe and idea, if you were correct we'd already be down and out, lets not give zealots guns or any more ways to tell others about there delusions, Jesus was a jew who palled around with 12 holier then thou @!$%#s a whore and probably his wife.

I took 'em 5000 yrs to have their first election. Probably take another 5000 to figure out what to do with it.

Democrats and Repbulicans... divided on what exactly? Increasing size of government? Corporate welfare? Bloated military spending? Massive deficits? When it is and is not okay to have an abortion?

Funny thing about that; despite being "divided on everything", very little seems to change term to term when our administration switches parties. Democrats and Repbulicans are the same party with different preferences for rhetoric.

I agree with your logic.

This feels like a put-on.

EconomyBaboo

The Media would have us believe its total
anarchy! 99% of the people in those country’s life is just still going on business
as usual, work, getting the kids off to school, figuring out what’s for dinner…
just as it is here!

Staged attempts at counter Psi. Ops. most likely coming from our CIA and paid for by Mr. Obama but they forget we have educations here.. The movie they are bitching about was proved to be based in historical fact.. No matter how poorly made it was it is not subject to any censorship for hate propaganda either..

This burning of a paper book means nothing to Christians, but with their fanatical cult teachings Islam cultists just can't understand it.. A silly attempt to stir up a religious rant from US Christians and it just is not gonna happen.. The Egyptian government will most likely get pleas for his release from congregations over here because from childhood we are taught to love and forgive while they are taught to hate and be intolerant.. But do not confuse this thinking with being weak and allowing these cultist jerk offs run rough shod over us because freedom is worth fighting for.. A minority wants us to forsake the values that founded this great country and erase it..

They want us to have a blaspheme/censorship law here so their lies and hate can grow in the USA and around the free world..Go back to your sacrificing of goats and child molestation rituals you dirty cult of hate worshipers..

See what a few billion dollars in AID? pays for!!

EconomyBaboo======= You are so right and you may be the only one on this thread that sees the truth. Egypt doesn't give a fig how the Bible is treated. It's all made up to manipulate the West. If the Copts want to build a church in Egypt they have to seek and obtain the permission of the president of the county. Across the Mid-East ,Muslims daily evince their disdain and disrespect for Christianity and any other point of view but Islam.

You speak of the "3rd world" as if all poor countries are the same. Where are you from, that apparently you know all about Egypt just because you're not rich?