E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSS
Vincenzo Pinto/AFP - Getty Images
This file picture taken on Oct. 10, 2006 shows Pope Benedict XVI with his then butler Paolo Gabriele (right) in St Peter's Square, Rome.
VATICAN CITY - One of the most sensational trials to be held in the Vatican for centuries got under way Saturday with Benedict XVI’s former butler, Paolo Gabriele, standing accused of leaking confidential documents from the pope’s apartments to the media.
Some of the documents suggested the existence of a web of corruption, nepotism and cronyism linked to the awarding of contracts for the maintenance of the Vatican estate. Others showed signs of widespread infighting among cardinals.
Gabriele could be given a sentence of up to four years in prison if found guilty of “aggravated theft.”
The Vatican State does not actually have a prison -- only security cells for temporary confinement. But, according to a 1929 agreement with “neighboring” Italy, anyone sentenced in the Vatican will serve their time there.
Vatican says the 'butler did it,' orders trial
The public trial is taking place in the Vatican’s tribunal, a small courtroom in a 19th century building in Piazza San Marta.
Gabiele was in the courtroom Saturday, dressed in a gray suit. Journalists in the small pool allowed in the room said he looked tense but laughed with his lawyer at one stage. He did not betray any other emotions.
The judges said it would be a short trial, and could be over in as little as four hearings, meaning that a verdict could be reached by the end of next week.
At the hearing, which only lasted two hours, it emerged the documents and IT material seized from the butler's house filled 82 boxes, though this does not mean all of it was confidential.
“Vatileaks,” as the case has become known, is expected to be the biggest trial held by world’s smallest state for centuries.
“Vatican judges usually have to deal with a maximum of 30 crimes per year,” Professor Giovanni Giacobbe, a Vatican legal expert, told journalists Thursday. “Mostly petty crimes like pickpocketing that are dealt with within a day.”
Pope Benedict's butler, Paolo Gabriele, has been arrested for stealing confidential documents and leaking papal secrets. The Vatican says this is "the beginning of a large investigation." NBC's Michelle Kosinski reports.
The biggest crime to emerge from St. Peter’s Square in recent memory -- the attempted assassination of Pope John Paul II in 1981 -- was tried in an Italian court, while the 1998 killing of a Swiss Guard commander and his wife never went to trial as the Swiss Guard who pulled the trigger turned the gun on himself.
The Vatican’s penal law is based on an Italian code, which dates back to 1889.
Unlike in the United States and other countries, a defendant here is not required to enter a plea, “like they do in Perry Mason,” Giacobbe joked.
Pope Benedict: 'Sadness in my heart' over butler leak scandal
Defendants are also not asked to take an oath before testifying.
Gabriele, a 46-year-old father of three, has already admitted his role in the conspiracy, and may now pray his confession will lead to a reduced sentence or even a papal pardon.
He was one of the very few people to have access to the pope’s private chambers and was caught red-handed when a stash of secret documents was found in his apartment, along with a cheque of $130,000, a rare 16th century edition of the Aeneid and a gold nugget, all presents sent to the Pope.
He was held for 53 days in a Vatican cell before being put under house arrest.
Gabriele confessed and claimed “he felt like an agent of the Holy Spirit,” seeking to expose and root out the "evil and corruption" in the Catholic church.
Leave a Comment:
So, let me get this straight: The butler who allegedly leaked embarrassing Vatican documents faces prison while priests who raped and molested children for decades are protected b the church and allowed to live out their days in freedom while the church pays off the victims. Well, of course.
The Vatican can no more prosecute a priest in the Vatican for a crime committed in another country any more than the US can prosecute someone in Israel for killing a Palestinian in Israel. Priest can and do go to jail in America. The mentioning of priest usually comes up with sex abuse but the mention of politicians and other wealthy people who do the same thing but get off without going to trial because of their money escapes most people. Americans embrace the idea if a wealthy person does something he should not be prosecuted. Most priest don't have money so they are an easy target.
yea, this sucks don't it? Wonder if he was a baby raper too!
Glad to hear "on it" has it all figured out,and seems to know how all Americans think! "On it" you are an idiot!
keptYes thats why I gave up on Catholism..PURE HYPOCRACY .. I just kept my faith inthe Lord as I know HE knows my HEART and Soul..and I do not have to go to church Sundays in MY BEST DRESS to show neighbors HOW "GOOG" I am ! needs a good clean out especially from the pedifiles !!!! Scum bags hiding behind the cloth AND getting let off,,A TRAGEDY!!!!!!!
OH yes anf the POPE a "HUMBLE " man needs a BUTLER???? and his designer shos and clothes GET REAL mr Pope I had respect for the last popr YOU are a QUEEN in Power..and ex Catholic!!!!!!
The two are not connected you moron. This is a case of theft, get it, not about the prevelance of homosexual priests. What we are finding out is that people will be people and there is jealousy, greed, dislike and crime prevelant in all cultures, circumstance and religions.
Agree Sane America and there was theft as stated in the article for those people that actually read the article and I quote:" along with a cheque of $130,000, a rare 16th century edition of the Aeneid and a gold nugget, all presents sent to the Pope".
Why, you ask? You sure don't want anyone handing out inside information to the press. That could lead to a loss of income, and for anyone who thinks otherwise, the catholic church, like all big religions, is about the money.
Hello folks, nobody really knows exactly what is in the "stash of secret documents". What we do know is that the church has been molesting little children, mostly boys for centuries with impunity. We also know they have been laundering money for the world's cartels. JP Morgan Chase recently got busted laundering money for the evil vatican.
Support the catholic church and you support child molestation and that is a fact!
@LindaM,
As I understand it the "presents" to the Pope were never officially acknowledged by the Vatican and the guy said he took them to show the kind of off-the-record "payments" that were used in bribes. Apparently a lot of the bribes that were tendered were in the form of minor art works and other items that had been given to this pope and past Popes, but were never included in official inventories. (It's always nice to have a few million in your pocket to use if the cops catch you speeding.) In a US court, it would be difficult to prove theft because they never officially belonged to the "owner." In a Vatican court, I would assume that the purden of proof is much easier.
The real issue and the one that will resonate all over Italy for a long time is the evidence of a huge amount of corruption and purely political infighting in the day-to-day operation of the Vatican. This is far from the first recent such scandal.
It is way past time to shut down the Vatican, sell all its billions of dollars of stuff and give it all to the poor and sick then start over.
What escapes most good Catholic Christians that follow the teacings of Christ is that the Vatican, the Popes and Cardinals are evil and should be shunned. A good look at the history of the Church and how the message of a guy named Jesus was coopted by them to enslave and murder people, burn them alive and torture them to admit they were believers , etc. etc. and now even as the world watched, they allowed pedophiles and sadists loose on us without any care or sense of guilt.
In a Catholic boarding school I was a victim of a sadistic priest that tortured me and sexually abused my brother and I know for a fact he killed a child he was punking in the ass and got away with it. He later became the head priest at that school.
I was witness like a fly on the wall when they revealed how they were sending priests all over the world as an escape from their crimes.
I'm a writer and have written a screenplay about what happened back then in the early 1940s. I'm 81 now and remember every bit of it. The screenplay has been optioned and I hope it makes it to the screen.
Good cathilics need to understand this is not an attack on them, it is a warning they should not even need any more.
cowtowntrucker...if he had been stealing the Pope's kiddy porn then he would have been merely reassigned to one of the Cardinals, but some of the items were actually worth money...that makes it a sin. Can anyone believe that modern intelligent human beings still get led around by religious rings inserted in their noses and never question a thing!
ON It... the Vatican knew about the pedophile priests, they chose not to expose that information to the police, instead they just moved them to a different church in another state. That is aiding and abetting. Yet they will punish this guy for trying to expose the corruption... they sure got their priorities straight right?
True, Sane America... but you may be missing the point.
In just about every culture 'except' religious culture, such crimes are punishable. The "pope", because a ridiculous fairy tale is believed by the gullible to be actual truth, is virtually immune from such prosecution, and the Penguin Church as a whole has already been caught with their pants down (literally) -- while covering up, protecting, and even promoting such behavior.
Sorry, but Hitchens had it right: It takes religion and/or ideological dogmatism to turn a good man into a moral monster. The sooner our species grows out of its infantile stage and begins to shed dogma and myth, the better.
Yep. Ironic isn't it? This is not really a trial. It is a lynching by religious fundamentists who were puplicly embarrassed. Nothing less. The so called leaders in the so called "holy see" are blinded by the power they have amassed. Even the road to hell is paved by good intentions.
It's sickning to think that all that immoral deads that have gone unpunished and left in the public to commit more of the same elsewhere only proves that their heads have been stuffed so far up their asses it has darkened the light at the end of the tunnel.. use both hands(_)_) push firmly away from the dark side.. use that space between your ears for the better good of the world not turn blind eye to those sick people harming others and given the ability to not be prossicuted to the fullest and held responsible for the actions they have done...wasting your mind on acting ignoranant is a poor excuse...having money dont make you right in doing unjustice to others!!
What a pack of stupid, left-wing, scum. I'm not a Catholic, but these screeds are simply ridiculous.
How about a dose of TRUTH, you morons?
The National Center for Abused and Neglected Children has done extensive research on this subject.
They have found that pedophilia is no more prevalent among Catholic priests than it is among any other group of men. The Catholic Church just gets SUED more because of its deep pockets.
According to their research, the organizations with the HIGHEST frequency of pedophilia are the PUBLIC TEACHERS' UNIONS.
So, I guess that means that any of you losers that send your children to public schools are enablers and supporters of CHILD MOLESTERS. And that includes the Democratic Party.
No honor among thieves...
This is an honest question: why would one belong to the Catholic Church now? One can still be Christian and belong to another sect/denomination which has much less corruption.
As a former practicing Catholic, I'll attempt an answer. Just as bible passages are cherry picked (the grotesque commands are ignored in civilized societies) so too is the viewpoint of the Catholic when thinking about her church. Pretzel logic is used to turn a blind eye to any number of evils. Afterall, the Catholic thinks to herself, "I" didn't commit those crimes, I am a good person.
And then there is the fear component. I know far too many otherwise intelligent individuals who, when pressed, admit that they are afraid to leave. Afraid not only for their soul, but also for their social network. I daresay all practicing members of authorative religions are virtually impossible to discern from victims of Stockholm Syndrome. Add to that the Dunning-Kruger Effect, and you've got one of the most perfect mind-shackling systems ever to have evolved.
I am also a former practicing Catholic and realized that you don't need a lot of incense, shame, hocus-pocus, robes, gold gilt and popes with butlers to worship God.
If the pope is REALLY the successor of Christ..........I then assume that those "apostles" were just a bunch of butlers or lackies.........otherwise WHY does the friggin pope need a butler when so many millions of people are starving, live in shacks and still donate to the church so HE can have a butler..............while all at the same time protecting the child molestors.........exactly what did Christ have to say about that your popish-ness??
Why would anyone belong to any church now? I guess if you want to believe in one hocus pocus over another's hocus pocus you can belong to any church. I belong to the 1st church of do what the f*uck you want. Pretty liberal, no heaven, no hell and certainly no hypocrisy.
On it & Homesick Yank,
Check out Pastafarianism, the faith of Her/His Holy Noodleness, THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER. Wicked awesome; no commandments, just suggestions. BTW, Fettuccine Alfredo and Linguine with Clam Sauce, beat communion wafers by light years. Also, the coffee mugs and T-shirts are excellent conversation starters if you're into evangelism.
With the Vatican so rife with scandal and grim news, L'Affaire Butlerdidit, invites great humor. More's the pity that Peter Sellers' Inspector C. isn't available to head up the investigation.
RAMEN
To assume that one condones all of the actions, misdeeds or mistakes of an organization that has been in existence for 2000 years if they identify themselves as Catholic is fallacious logic.
Do you condone all of the terrible mistakes, misdeeds and actions of the American government over the last 200+ years? Slavery, Jim Crow, decimation of Native American Indians, Abu Graihb, Tuskegee, and the list goes on ad nauseum. By your theorem, why would anyone still want to identify themselves as an American?
steelergirl in ravenland:
False dichotomy. The problem with Catholicism, indeed any faith claim is this: is it true? Of course it isn't. Evolution explains why humans are here, not Yahweh.
But back to your false dichotomy: The American Government is an experiment stemming from the values of the Enlightenment. If some day our descendents choose to abandon the US model, they are free to do so.
I am reminded of Voltaire who said, "To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you cannot criticize." Catholicism fits the latter, the Enlightenment values of America's founders do not. Ask yourself who fights these values every step of the way? The Old Guard: religion.
Furthermore, steeler girl in ravenland,
If my government continued to cover up child rape, CHILD RAPE, year after year after year and claimed diplomatic immunity instead of facing justice all the while shuffling cabinet members to oversees jurisdictions, then YES, I would be ashamed to identify as an American. Wouldn't you? Have you no shame? CHILD RAPE, and it continues with the latest scandal in Australia.
The Catholic Church volunteers nothing when it has come to the protection of children unless forced by the police. Just think about that. Then think about it some more.
Atheist, there are MANY programs including Virtus that ALL people working in the Church must attend, religious and laity. Homesick Yank, there are MANY Catholics around the world, over 1.2 BILLION, many, many more than atheists, lol.
atheist,
The government covers way more that child rape everyday. That doesn't mean I condone rape in any way shape or form. But, by your logic, you damn well be ashamed to call yourself an American. Research just about any congress / senate from any year and you'll find more covered up crimes linked to them it might make you say "Oh My God!"
Yes there are lots of delusional people...actually billions and billions of delusional people in the world. Ahhh...you win. Worshiping Catholics are among the worst.
American is not a religious philosophy...these two things are not analogous:) It means many things especially freedom of belief to be an American. Catholicism as all religious dogma is....relatively unchanging and NOT a dealer in facts.
CPTillman,
"Yes there are lots of delusional people...actually billions and billions of delusional people in the world. Ahhh...you win. Worshiping Catholics are among the worst."
Worst dilusional?
Hello folks,
Religion is just another method of controlling the masses all the while they steal your money and your children’s innocence. The sexual abuse that has been perpetrated by the Catholic Church on tens of thousands of innocent children is on a scale that lends itself so that even the casual observer has to wonder if it is an accepted ritual within the church. Many people come to the defense of the church stating that it is the celibate role that has lent itself to the wide spread abuse. If so, why are the majority of victims boys?
A study done by The National Center on Child Abuse and Neglect found that even though only 25% of citizens in the U.S. are Roman Catholic, 54% of the sexual abuse cases were perpetrated by Catholic priests. The church has paid at least 2.6 billion to settle sexual abuse cases. In 2007 alone the Los Angeles Archdiocese on July 15 announced the largest church settlement of sexual abuse lawsuits to date, agreeing to pay more than 500 alleged victims a total of $660 million. The abuse continues and the wealthy Vatican is easily able to cover these claims. The Vatican even has insurance policies to cover these operating costs.
The minor victims of priest abuse are overwhelmingly boys and teenagers, which is
contrary to the pattern of abuse in the general population.
The problem is not just with the number of priests who molests young children, but in
a Vatican power structure which harbors and conceals pedophiles, hides other
sexual behavior patterns among its clerics and uses the strategies of duplicity
and counterattack against the victims.
Why is it that in most countries the Catholic Church doesn’t have to abide by the same laws that apply to other pedophiles and rapists? And why don’t Catholics see this atrocity as an integral part of their church?
Pedophile priests have molested innocent children in the Roman Catholic Church probably since the beginning of the church. These pedophiles have been protected and their horrendous crimes against children have gone unpunished. It is amazing to me that there are over a billion Catholics. I guess acceptance of pedophilia in the church is the cost of salvation!
Linda, you completely missed my point. Catholicism, to this very minute, remains a reactive organization when it comes to protecting children. Please read that sentence again. Only under pain of moral secular authority does the Church grudgingly comply to do the minimum. But the main point here is the the Church is reactive, never proactive. Please think about that. It's despicable.
Bobfu, that's a goofy claim.
But I am encouraged to hear that you are ashamed to be a Catholic. To freely give money to an organization with appalling values.
Now do something about it. Be part of the solution.
When starting out, priests and bishops of the catholic church in North Africa burnt bibles and turned in their flock to the Romans for persecution. When Catholicism became the state religion for Rome, the catholic church welcomed these same bishops and priests back into their church. North Africans rebelled and were branded blasphemous by the church who forced them to accept these priests and bishops who snitched on their flock.
The church hasn't strayed far from its roots.
atheist,
When did I say I was a catholic? (Notice I didn't give the word catholic recognition by capitalizing the word as you did)
I never stated that. If you drew that conclusion on your own, you're mistaken. I will not be part of a religious group who will "accept" you and "allow" you attend services if you promise to show up with a weekly cash donation. If a pauper held out a collection basket I'd drop in a buck or 2, but I will not pay a billion + dollar orgaization a cent for a chance of being saved.
Linda M,
Popularity sure doesn't indicate correct or just.
Athiest:
Not a false dichotomy. You failed to take into account the original comment to which I was responding. Please see the first comment and then you will understand your mistake. It was not a question of whether religion is true. Rather it was a question of if you choose to belong to a Christian organization, why would you choose to be Catholic at this point in history. My point was to draw a perfectly valid analogy to choosing your nationality. After all, the USA has been in existence only about 1/10 of the time that the Catholic Church has existed, yet has perpetrated (through our government) numerous horrific injustices, crimes and misdeeds. Despite millions of deaths, abuses etc. at the hands of our government, most of us Americans are proud to be so, not because we condone the worst of our history, but we recognize the value the best of our efforts have brought to mankind.
steeler girl in ravenland,
Your defense of the Catholic Church is simply not compelling. You've assumed that I place value on patriotism. Patriotism is not far removed from racism and chauvinism. Loving your country simply because you happened to be born in it is dumb, primitive.
Your argument is that Holy Mother Church isn't perfect, look at all the bad stuff that so and so is doing. That's your defense?
Frankly, I'm a little creeped out conversing with someone who remains with the Catholic Church knowing full well that priests and bishops right now are placing their Religio-Industrial Complex above the needs of children. It's indefensible.
If Rick Santorum covered up child rape, you can damn well bet I would not be defending him by saying, but but but but Charles Manson was mean too.
You are part of the problem. Please think critically about your position and why you are unable to question your slavish loyalty to Catholicism.
Athiest:
You assume I am "with" the Catholic Church. I've never said one way or another. I have simply drawn an analogy that you must apparently change, i.e. label it patriotism, in order to deny its logic. Changing the opponent's premise in order to suit your counter argument is a common debate tactic, but it only works on those inexperienced in debate. I don't condone child rape in any manner. As a mother of two young children and as a survivor of child sexual assault, I can assure that I most certainly do not condone anything that hurts a child. However, I am able to separate my own personal experiences to engage in a thoughtful response to a thoughtful question.
And by the way, our government did condone child rapes for decades as part of slavery, but it was mostly female children and they were black, so I guess it doesn't have the resonance with most people as when the victims are male and mostly white. Nevertheless, the analogy is valid, why associate with any organization which has perpetrated horrific acts? You have to answer for yourself as an American, Athiest.
One last thing, to quote you "Barbarians attack people....". You stated above that conversing with me creeped you out. Please practice what you preach : )
Well I might get my head bit off for this one but I'm going to say it anyway. Catholics are not Christians. Christians are ones who have been saved and accepted Jesus as their savior and have been water baptized. Catholics claim to be following the bible but they pray to Mary (which would be considered praying to an idol) and Jesus said (while talking about religious figures as a preacher) You shall call no one father but me. And what do Catholics call their priests.....Father. Such blatant contempt for what Jesus said. AS for this article, if he found corruption in the church he should be praised for bringing it to light.
Naaah.......Catholics don't ALWAYS pray to Mary but it is considered that Mom is a good way to get the attention of her son who is running the entire universe for "HIS" sakes.
Marie,
Please become more educated about Catholicism before you spout off the ignorance you have heard from your chosen sect. Catholics are the original Christians. The rest are just splinter groups.
Right, and let's see how many of those splinter groups are around in 2K years, assuming the world is still here.
So truth is a longevity contest? There are older religions than Catholicism. Fail.
This from an atheist? Fail.
spoken like a true hypocrite.
Ugh...997612
What does my being an atheist have to do with the substance of my post? Barbarians attack individuals, civilized people attack ideas. I stand by my claim. There are older religions than Catholicism yet it would be just as ridiculous attach truth to them because of their longevity. Understand?
Nope.
Ugh,
Thank you for the discussion.
Atheist, hope you weren't actually expecting a reasonable discussion.
For anyone interested out there, Hinduism is the oldest living religion which traces back to 5500–2600 BCE. BCE stands for Before the Current Era or Before the Christian Era. And the Jewish faith, traced back to about 4000 years ago, is older than Christianity. In fact, Christ was born a Jew, lived as a Jew, and died a Jew. Christ never said he was rejecting Judaism. (Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.")
So, if longevity is the mark of truth, then Hinduism has them all beat, and the religion of Christ (Judaism) certainly trumps its offshoot, Christianity. That's right, Christianity is an offshoot of the Jewish religion.
But why clutter people's minds with knowledge? It's best for everyone to carry on thinking that their religion is the best. The truest. The one sanctioned by God as the right religion. Everyone else is deluded, mistaken, confused, bamboozled, in league with the dark side, or an infidel.
Do you know why people who claim to be religious get all freaked out when they are told facts that don't coincide with their beliefs and refuse to engage in study about the history of religion? Because they're afraid that they might learn something that would cause them to question. A few years ago a coworker was putting down another religion and spouting off things that were simply untrue. I corrected his misunderstanding and asked him why he didn't take the time to read, or look up info on the religion's beliefs online. His response: "Why would I want to do that? I know my religion is the true religion so I'm not going to waste my time." Wow. College educated, mid-forties, well-placed in the community. Scarey.
Do research into the history of religions on earth and you'll see that Christianity has borrowed much from far more ancient religions/mythologies than the church would have you believe. Many of the stories of Christ's birth, life, death, etc. were found in carbon dated manuscripts that pre-date Christ's birth by many centuries. And they weren't talking about the savior to come... they were referring to gods that had already been there, done that long before the manuscript was written.
good thought Marie
Thanks Cindy 746756
ATHEIST, I share your frustration re: an intelligent discussion with UGH. However, it's important to realize your limitations: you can explain it for them, but you can't understand it for them. Especially when they don't have much interest in entertaining a divergent opinion or fact. You made your point very articulately. BTW, I am a product of 8 years of Catholic elementary schooling. The nuns taught us well, but we had to endure indoctrination via the catechism, although we didn't question it at the time. BTW, our former Boston Archbishop, Cardinal Law was guilty of hiding/transferring pedophiloic priests to other dioceses. His "punishment"? A transfer and promotion to the Vatican. Papal culpability for atrocities against innocent children? You betcha. People need to apologize to Sinead O'Connor for castigating her for tearing up the Pope's picture on SNL many years ago, as a protest against the Vatican's legacy of condoning sexual violence. She referred to the Pope as "the real enemy". She was right on the money.
People were worshipping the Great Mother when humankind was still fingerpainting on cave walls. The worship of the Goddess was one of the first recognized belief systems--there are prehistoric Goddess figures in caves with cave paintings.
Hinduism did come next; Judaism, Chrisianity, and Islam create the trinity of Judaism-based belief systems. All three religions' Holy Boooks refer back to the God of Abraham as the One God.
And this is the root of the problem that Muslims has with Christians.
Over and over in the Qu'ran the Prophet Muhamad states that they consider as 'infidel' those who make for themselves graven images, bow down before them and worship them as they are supposed to worship the God of Abraham. They see a Christian Mass, whatever the denomination, and see people kneeling before the crosses hung over the altars (idolatry) kneeling before a priest who is called 'Father' when the only 'Father' who should be worshipped is the God of Abraham.
The Qu'ran acknowledges Jesus as the Messiah and the Son of God, but also insists that as Jesus was also the Son of Man, Jesus shouldn't be deified and only God The Father should be worshipped as God. And as you stated, Mary is holy and a the Immaculate Conception is never disputes that in the Qu'ran, but bowing and praying to her is considered a sign of an 'unbeliever'.
I was curious about all the hatred from both sides of the Christianity-Islam debate and recently asked for a copy of the Qu'ran from the local mosque (they gave it to me free, since their religion dictates that their Word not be 'bartered for paltry price' but that as it was the Word of God as Revealed To Mohammed, it should be free to anyone who asks for it.)
I went to a Catholic church and asked for a Bible (they told me to go buy it from a store, so I bought one at Barnes and Noble for $25) then went to the local used bookstore and bought the oldest Bible there (copyright date was 1961) and am now reading through all three Holy Books. There are differences between the 2011 Holy Bible and the 1961 Holy Bible, but all the same basic stuff is in it.
I'm currently reading through the Qu'ran. Abraham is in there. Moses is in there. Jonah, Lot, Cain and Abel, the entire book of Genesis is in there, so is the fact that you're not supposed to eat shelfish or pork (but the Qu'ran specifies that if you are hungry and there is nothing else available it is fine to eat.) Mary is dedicated to the service of God by her parents and thus becomes the vessel for the Immaculate Conception, and Jesus's birth and status as the Messiah and the Son of God is acknowledged. The Qu'ran states that Jews and Christians are all going to Heaven--except for those that bow down to idols and graven images (crosses with the figure of Jesus) on them and those who bow down before man as before God. (Seen the masses bowing down/kneeling before the Pope, kissing his ring and the ground he walks on? And this is why the Muslims don't allow images of God or Jesus or Mohammed to be made because it would lead them into idolatry.)
As a former Catholic turned practicing pagan Goddess-worshipper, I don't understand why the hostility between Jews, Christians and Muslims. All of you believe in the same God, and all three Holy Books say the same thing; thou shalt not make unto thee any idol or any graven image, nor bow before Man as before God.
So if you all believe in the same God and your holy books all say the same thing, then what's the problem?
What a sham!!
The Vatican needs some light shed on it. When an organization as powerful as the Catholic Church exists there will be corruption somewhere. It has to be disclosed & dealt with.
Would God want the Church to hide secrets and scandals?
Dunno..but he(GOD) killed those he didn't like!
"Some of the documents suggested the existence of a web of corruption, nepotism and cronyism . . ."
They left out, "pedophilia" and protection of pedophiles.
K I Smart, the answer is YES. Read your OT. It's full of Yahweh-sanctified and Yahweh-sponsored horrors. I expect this post will be rrrrported, as relatively few Christians like to hear the truth.
Amen!!
This article is about the butler and you are saying the butler is also a pedophile. I guess I missed that part of the story.
As a Catholic, if he confessed his sins and followed his penance, he should be forgiven. Isn't that how it's supposed to work?
Even better if he was a "born again" Christian............you get off a lot of time with that gig I hear.......but what do I know?
Have a nice day everyone.
excuse me, but, ALL organized religion is B.S. So...NONE of their rules are in need of following...certainly not the heaven-hell crap. Really, saying you're sorry to the sky makes everything alright? Really? "...that's how its supposed to work"? Really? What century are you living in? enuff!!!
JIM KUSHNER: "S'cuse me, while I kiss the sky!" - Jimi Hendrix
Cheeze, that's how it works. Before I was wise to religion I would pray and pray and pray for a new bicycle. Finally I wised up, went out and stole a bike and prayed for forgiveness.
I say--give him a Medal!!
The ONLY thing that the Catholic Church cares about is Image !! And to prove this fact , they squander Billions of dollars to protect their immoral priests.
Jesus should hide his face in disgust/shame as to what he has created.
Actually Jesus created Christianity, not the Chatolic Church.
Actually, humans created/invented the gods, including Yahweh, out of their insecurity.
Since one of the definitions of a christian is one must believe in Jesus Christ. A bit self serving was he? Sort of walking around telling everybody bow down and worship me is a little too much for me to handle.
6dogs,
"Actually Jesus created Christianity, not the Chatolic Church."
That's debatable. Many would argue that it was the apostle Paul who was the real founder of Christianity; not Jesus. Jesus spoke only to the Israelites and he did not really develop any formal theology. It was Paul who created the basics of a formal Christian theology and spread it outside Israel to the gentiles.
really simple guys...Paul noticed that converting adult males to Christianity from paganism involved circumcision.
If you were an Israelite at the time, and became a follower of Jesus, circumcision was already a done deal. But, if you wanted to expand your power base, better change the rules...ta da, enter Catholicism, no snipping necessary.
get it guys? its all about power and control.
Actually Jesus is saying "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do." Evidence of that is rampant on these pages as well as in the world at large.
Jim Kushner
" its all about power and control"
Hit the nail on the head that time Jim.
I didn't bother to read the article. What did he do? Get caught holding some little boys by the ears while the pope had his way with them from behind?
I'm more interested in " Jesus' wife ". Down in the basement in the archives of The Vatican, there's got to be historical notes archaeologically significant to the point of Jesus having a spouse.
As to Jesus "creating Christianity," the man was born and died an observant Jew. As such, a nice Jewish boy would have most certainly had a wife. Also, as a Bronze Age carpenter he would have possessed a well muscled body with huge shoulders and arms; totally unlike the slender, pale, often blue-eyed fugitive from the Naples U Cross Country Team of so many paintings and scuptures.
Wow, religious battles are so darn much fun--until they devolve into killing people and sheltering criminals.
Malinda,
I agree that Jesus most likely had a spouse. A man in his 30's way back then was expected to.
And Jesus was a Jew. Probably why people called him "PROFIT" yuk yuk. I know there's another prophet.
In the hierarchy of the Catholic Church...?! I can't imagine.
Nepotism, corruption based on personal ambition, and a myriad of other vial and despicable motivations have been enshrined in the Catholic Church for centuries. Pope Alexander VI, (Roderic de Borja), is but one example of the corruption over the last 266 popes. This is not as shocking as the Vatican would like us to believe.
ShirleyJ-you took the words right out of my mouth. Thank you!
All your denominations have issues and the sad thing is people who want to cast stones at one religion when theirs also have issues. The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ and you are going to have some in every religion that will commit sin because man is mortal and subject to temptation.
If you are perfect you can say a certain group is bad, but most people have their imperfections. I have to look in the mirror every day and ask how I can do better today. Life is a struggle to do the right thing even when no one is looking.
Man, I'm sure The Christ wouldn't recognize what is being done in his name or what has been done, by "His" church. Early mission has been co-opted by the need for power and greed. Imperfections a bit of an understatement wouldn't you say?
Daniel,jesus didnt create any of this ,this is all the work of men.All of the organized religions are the work of men,In my opion,they all separarte man from god(the creator) and use the name of phropets whos intension it was to keep men on a path twords peace and enlightenment,the path to actually become whole human beings,though each claims to be diffrent,they are not,They are responsible for more war hatered,and corruption,than probably any other entity.If we are created in the image of a god a one true creator than he she or it is inside of each of us making us all related regarless of color or location.Look around and see the glory of the creator in everthing,speak and and the universe hears your words.You dont have to look outside of yourself for a savior.
Good points............wouldn't it have been best in all of that eternal wisdom and stuff if Christ had written the Bible........After all, God did pass down those tablets to Moses.......but again those were lost too I guess..........so EVERYTHING is a work of man in interpreting why stuff happens...........or not.............
Just think about how much peace there would have been over the many centuries if there had been NO religions...........................hmmmm.
just think!!! its a beautiful thought. Peace without pettiness.
And children, I am a direct descendant. But people don't believe that anymore than they believe Jesus was the son of God when he hung out.
There is a lot of information on that time so you decide what you want to create and pick only the material that supports that belief and destroy the rest. Maybe some is stored but to use it when not required is heresy.
religion gone wrong.
I disagree. This is precisely how religion operates.
Feb. 1600. Robert Bellarmine sentences Giordano Bruno to be burnt at the stake. Today there is a University in Louisville, KY. named after this S.O.B. That is what religion does. Sanctify flat-earth morons. Way to go Cath church. Giordano Bruno should be the saint not the inquisitionist Bellarmine.
This all sounds a lot like the mafia. They have their own rules and laws, and corruption to hide. Only difference is that the mafia deals in drugs and money, and Catholicism deals in little boys and money.
Ironic that the leadership of the catholic church still has the gall to think they are just in presiding over anybody's trial. Oh well, you work for flat earthers it'll catch up with you eventually.
DanTheMan, please tell me how the universe was created. Let's start at the big bang... tell me what existed prior to that? Tell me what triggered the big bang, please do tell. Do you have faith that science will someday provde the answer. Well, people have faith that the answer is something more than a few molecules colliding. They are allowed to share that faith and believe what they may. So lighten up skippy, not everyone is so enlighted as you.
Sane America... following your "logic" for a moment here, if it wasn't the big bang and was your god that did it...cool. And I ask, who created your god? Please don't give a 'he's always been" answer as that just signifies that you don't know. Please, provide us with some real logic here.
"The judges said it would be a short trial"
An auto da fe, followed by the traditional public burning at the stake. They said he could be turned over to the "secular" authorities in Rome since the Vatican does not have a prison. The Catholic Church always turned heretics over to the "secular" authorities for execution so they could wash their hands of the blood like Pontius Pilate.The Catholic Church loves tradition. They swear by it. Anyway, I think it was the butler, in the dining room, with a knife. Or maybe it was Miss Plumb?
Organized religions need an enema. I vote Nuns On The Bus to perform it.
(full disclosure: I don't follow any mythology)
A real live case of "the butler did it"! Corruption in the Catholic Church has been going on for years and it's about time someone put an end to the lies, or at least exposed the truth about the Roman Catholic Church. I applaud him for his courage. We Christians believe in the Bible yet violate many of the basic principles. Even our beloved church leaders have fallen to false teachings passing on these concepts to the people. And of course we fail ourselves by allowing deception. We all must take responsibility and be accountable for all we express no matter what form of expression we use. Freedom of religion and the ability to worship freely carries great responsibility. The butler's choice may or may not have been the right course, but it's a step in the right direction.
I get it. Iran is an "Islamic state." Israel is a "Jewish state." And the Christian Catholic church is a total country unto it self.
They're all nuts. When will these religious kooks stop pretending to be kings, prophets, princes and assorted other frauds claiming a direct line to God? The rest of the world needs to put a stop to this. The Vatican state...a lot of Medieval nonsense. Ridiculous.
The Vatican -- a sovereign country owned and run by a corrupt church -- is going to hold a trial, officiated by the same pedophile priests and the crooked pope that brought the charges. What a kangaroo court this is going to be.
Nice try, but it's a lot more than any one man can do, especially in their court.
Religion is a "fairy tale" created because People were superstitious and this was the perfect way to control them. It's ridiculous that people in this day and age Still believe in this hoax. Religious organizations are Nothing but big business.
If it makes you a better person to believe this crap, that's great. Otherwise I wouldn't waste time, money, hatred, and Wars over it.
Couldn't Agree More. Only difference between this and Santa Clause is no one Kills for Santa Clause.
I was a Catholic, NOT any more. I DO NOT belive in the Pope. They are just like Politicians. Lot of them are gays that have not came out of the closet yet. Most Catholic Church is a Business, I know some good priest, but most of them are not. FREE THE BUTLER, he deserve more than the Pope.
It would seem that the Vatican has the same problems as our own government. Well........... welcome to the modern world, members of the church's clergy!!
Maybe it is time to really LISTEN to the teachings of Jesus. Maybe it is time to PRACTICE the teachings of Jesus. Maybe it is time to "get back to basics", and by that I mean, relearning how to live with one another, and how to be responsible members of families, and to think of others, instead of how to make more and more money, and collect more and more things.
Welcome to the most corrupt organization in the world. Nothing but a bunch of manipulative grifters spreading propaganda to masses of the weak and the unsuspecting innocents - and with devistating results.
Ah um that's devastating results!