Another country destroyed by socialist libtards. The greedy government "workers" and bureaucrats want to keep their fat salaries and benefits, even if it means no jobs for the next generation. Shame on them.

This is what applying neo-liberal aka neo-con economic policies looks like. Mr. Rajoy took a bad situation in terms of JOBS and made it worse. Policy after policy, this goverment has refused to enact policies that encourage jobs and general economic growth. He is so BEHOLDEN to the German Merkel, who is out to protect the intrest of german banks. And to all those here who blame the SOCIALIST Mr. Zapatero for this crisis think again and get informed.........This mess begin with the Banks and the people are being asked to pay for their BAILOUT.

Remember, the corporations and banks have taken over just about every gov't in the world. Has anyone noticed the countries without a central bank are under attack? The wheels are in motion to make the middle class poor and the poor dead, The elites are creating riots and class warfare in every EU country. Spain, Ireland, Italy, Greece, and so on. England, Germany and the US will be next. Make sure you have the 3 Gs Gold, Guns, and a get away plan, we are in for dangerous times.

I think you hit the nail on the head Jackson. It is a pattern that I see, and it will come to the U.S.A. too. Ever notice how the banks and the other capitalist big boys come out on top?

Observe also that so often this austerity comes no matter who they vote for. Even if they vote socialist, they get austerity. Never assume that just because a candidate has a liberal or socialist label that you are going to be given something. That is why one better look very closely at the intentions of our two candidates that we have to choose between. Do not assume that Obama is some generous big spender. Austerity could very easily come from him. It may be that the bad news will hit us no matter who we choose.

As you say, everyone should plan for bad times as best they can. Brace. Brace. Brace.

Same holds true for this Presidential election.....THROW Mr. Obama out, along with his Czars and Progressive Cabinet members.

Anyone who "deflects" from the likes of "Fast and Furious", the National Debt, the National Deficit, and continualy attacks women's rights, religious beliefs, corporations, small businesses, Middle Class, energy, and does nothing on the attacks of our Embassies and Consulates is not a LEADER.

After the Banks are done with you, after the rich have taken everything, after they lower the salaries below subsistance levels, then the corporations and RWNJ's want you to pay for it.

Reality has a Liberal Bias.

Start the economy, get us out of this economic hole the conservatives and right wing nut jobs got us into.

Hello folks, the Federal Reserve and their fractional reserve banking system has led us and the European countries to the point we are at now. It is working as designed. It creates debtor economies and makes you and me and anyone involved with the Federal Reserve economic slaves.

We’re witnessing the collapse that so many naysayers believed would never happen, in fact, happening right here and now including the United States. The data suggests it likely occurred well before global stock markets melted down in 2008. The European debt debacle or the coming Japanese and Chinese economic meltdowns is providing us a clear picture of where we’ve been and where we’re headed.

Greece is being foreclosed on by the banksters, Spain is next. Their islands, utility companies, lottery proceeds and really anything of value is being bought up for pennies on the dollars. The Greek government and Spain are being told to sell off their country to the people who caused this mess to begin with. The government is instituting forced austerity programs whose cuts are negating any chance of economic growth. Sure the IMF will loan you more money but with provisions attached. If you default which they will, you lose your economic sovereignty and the countries resources are privatized (foreclosed). You are in all intents and purposes seceding to the dictates of the European Union and their corrupt leaders Van Rompuy and Barroso who haven’t been elected by any country.

The bottom line is that if people don’t have money, they can’t consume to keep the economy going. This leads to a vicious negative feedback loop that forces small (and large) business employers to lay off workers, which takes even more money out of the economy, which subsequently leads to more business closures and cutbacks.

As a result the people are pissed off with good reason. The sheeple will blame the hard working middle class and poor instead of their corrupt political and business leaders. You will see this happen in the U.S. after the elections when people will realize and see that all the economic principles that used to govern markets have been thrown out the window in exchange for money printing. We are now pumping in 85 billion worth of monopoly money a month into the economy. If you notice, we Americans have our heads in the sand and are doing nothing to stop this madness. QE3 is pumping 40 billion and Operation Twist is pumping 45 billion into the economy. That’s not real growth, that’s artificial growth and only the banksters are benefitting from this extortion of the American taxpayer.

The insanity of using the fractional reserve banking system of taking on more debt to pay off old debt has run its course. We have been conditioned to talk in terms of trillions of dollars of debt without having any concept of the size of the hole we have been digging.

Let’s put this in a context that should give us pause when we talk about the size of our debt.

One million seconds is twelve days ago.

One billion seconds is 32 years ago.

One Trillion seconds is just under 32 thousand years ago.

Our national debt is over 16 trillion and climbing as we need 10.4 billion a day to keep our economy going. Our leaders are completely corrupt as the banksters are the only ones benefitting from the designed theft they have perpetrated through the Federal Reserve and its fractional reserve banking system. It doesn’t matter who’s in office as our political system has turned into a two headed one party system serving their masters, the banksters/Federal Reserve and Wall Street. End the Fed!

Spain is possibly the weakest link in the Eurozone after Greece. The banks are teetering on collapse, jobs are non-existent, housing prices are still depressed and their economy is in its second recession. Even with a bailout a total and absolute crash is very possible.

Of course the consensus is that the problems are a result of the housing bubble that crashed. This is based on the perceived healthy fiscal indicators. In 2007 they boasted a surplus of 1.9% of GDP and a gross consolidated debt of just 36% of GDP. Once the housing bubble burst revenues fell and stimulus spending was instituted, this resulted in a deficit of 11% in 2009 and a gross debt that grew over 30% of GDP in 4 years.

Of course the anti-austerity cabal argues that, unlike Greece, Spain wasn’t fiscally irresponsible. Yes, they carried budget surpluses before the collapse but they weren’t because of restrained government spending. The revenues were being generated by ballooning housing prices similar to what we have been seeing here for the past 15 years.

Once again the culprit was government spending. Spains spending in nominal terms increased 7.6% annually between 2000 and 2009. The austerity measures incorporated in 2010 reduced spending by a mere 1% and 3.6% in 2011. Hardly Draconian. More importantly if you look at spending in real terms using constant euros, there hasn’t been any decrease.

If you look at spending in relation to the economy Spain may appear fiscally prudent. Spending was constant at 39.2% between 2000 and 2007. This has to be inspected in relation to the growing GDP Spain was experiencing. As the GDP was artificially growing, on the shoulders of the ballooning housing prices, when the economy collapsed real government spending jumped 2.3% to 41.5% in one year. So, government spending remained constant as a share of the economy during most of the 2000’s not because government spending was too little it was because GDP was growing so fast on a bubble.

Once the crisis kicked in, government spending as a percentage of GDP peaked at 46.3% in 2009. This was due to more stimulus spending and a contracting economy. It fell to 4.3% in 2011 which was still higher than 2008. So yes, spending has come down but not in any significant fashion as the Keynesians would have you believe.

Now, taxes have been increased in Britain, France, Italy and Greece, and Spain increased them also in the last 2 years. In 2010 personal tax rates went up and 2 new brackets of 44% and 45% for higher incomes. Tax credits to the self-employed were eliminated, the VAT rate went up from 16% to 18% and excises on tobacco and gasoline were also raised. These were all increased before the recent large tax hike created by Mariano Rojay making Spain one of the highest taxed countries in Europe.

So, as Paul Krugman continues to call Spains austerity measures as “insane”, it’s easy to see all it amounts to is significant tax increases and minimal spending cuts. How anyone can believe dramatic tax increases during a recession that headlines dramatic unemployment and profligate spending can ever lead to fiscal sanity evades common sense. We should be watching the EU much closer than Romneys taxes or some insignificant video from years ago, we might learn something about our own collapsing economy.

ROMNEY/RYAN 2012 for real Americans

Europe is going down the drain. All the Countries spend money like crazy, Germany is the only country that actually has a good budget. And IMHO, quit blaming rich people for the governments mistakes. People need to learn that the government can't give people whatever they want. Pure Socialism doesn't work, but young people, like the OWS protesters, that are jealous of the rich people's success will never understand that.

SPOILED-BRAT NARCISSISTIC GENERATION(S)!!

As a duel-citizen I have witnessed for long, as has others, this crisis developing and not surprisingly anticipated its inevitable derailment. You've got millions upon millions of spoiled and coddled Spaniards raised on the 'beautiful' life of entitlements with little or no sense of obligations or responsibilities. They have been raised and been living in a 'i-phone' alternative reality world.

SOUNDS FAMILIAR? ... very similar, albeit not to the same extreme, as here with the 'beautiful' PC crowd; earnest as well in their self-engrossed narcissism where people are not judged on their merits or their performance to their fiduciary responsibilities, but on idealized, yet irrelevant - and childish - weight-preferences given, such as if the person happens to be black like President Obama. ... People who struggle all their lives and have not been accorded benefits of 'preferences' (and yes, unlike the President) don't live in an 'i-phone' world; don't think like this.

Jaime Alvarez "They had elected many socialist for years who gave entitlements to the people. Now their country is bankrupt, broke" is logically FLAWED: this isn't the reason Spain has problems with their finance industry - it was the global collapse that wasn't planned for (that USA started). Your next line is even MORE perplexing: the only way there could even BE a civil war is if Catalonia declares its independence. That hasn't happened yet. You attribute much more than currently is to the situation by further claiming that the 'socialists' will be eliminated... which leads me to ask: HUH?! The only way that this makes sense is if you are claiming that the Catalans are all socialists. Just where the hellfire do you come from, anyway?

As far as some of the other naysaying posters on here, the Spanish people know that austerity measures is not the answer: even the EU committees are now stating that austerity measures will deepen recessions and cause nations to fall back into depression. Funny, though they state that, they still make austerity demands on Greece.... nobody is perfect I guess. I give Spain credit for at least trying to work this out on their own without yet accepting a bailout from the EU. Something everyone else here simply overlooks.

Jackson, you are so right. These guys relies on the bad memories of the people. I remember back in 1988 when they had the Worlds Fair where they brag about their idea of a glowing future, well they actually said out right that they wanted ALL the worlds poor people killed by 2050 by the chaos and bad money times. So they said it point blank but I bet no one remembers that very old Tom Brokaw news cast then. I still remember. There is one fly in their ointment and that is the Muslims. When the bankers throw the world into chaos the Muslims will fill in the vacuum. They know how to live in harsh times. Their rich are required to tithe ten percent or get killed. Every weak toppling government is replaced by Shariah Law. So this is how the Muslims will get that one world Muslim global faith. This is what they are fighting for so these greedy bankers are falling into the Muslim trap. In short the bankers only think they will win. The bankers are not using the right strategy to win but the Muslims have this one down to a science. The Muslims will provide the minimum necessities for the poor starving masses when the bankers cause this chaos to hit the Muslims will fill in. Only America will not have this happen. That is not because America has done any thing to block this but due to our Muslim populations are too small to feed the multitudes here. So Americans will face bloodshed like Liberia due to the chaos and every man for himself (or women) fighting to survive. Europe will easily fall to the Muslims, though they do not as yet see their fate or they would act differently and be Nicer to America.

We may be witnessing the end of capitalism as a system, TrustVerify. You said:

The bottom line is that if people don’t have money, they can’t consume to keep the economy going. This leads to a vicious negative feedback loop that forces small (and large) business employers to lay off workers, which takes even more money out of the economy, which subsequently leads to more business closures and cutbacks.

It has been predicted (by Karl Marx himself in fact) that capitalism would die just as you have described it here. It is in the nature of such a system for all the money (value) to accumulate at the top and freeze up there as the workers can no longer buy the goods that they produce.

It was considered wisdom a few decades ago to structure taxation as such to take some cream off the top and circulate it down at the bottom. This kept the imbalance that was inherent in the system at bay and bought more years of life for the system of capitalism. Lately people get this idea that those that tax the rich and distribute that value down to the bottom are somehow enemies of capitalism. Far from it! They are actually preserving the system of capitalism even if it is from the idiocy of the capitalists themselves.

If you really hate capitalism with a passion, you'd let them do what they want: pay hardly any taxes, pay workers as cheap as they can, and cut all programs that bring money into the hands of the poor and middle. This would make the system reach imbalance sooner and destroy itself. Ironically, this is what Reagan did. I was reading in Newsweek the other day that the old tax rate pre-Reagan was 70% for the top tax bracket. He changed it to 50% then later 28%. The deficit then ballooned. Presidents that came after him continued the trend feeding the imbalance further. I should make a bumper sticker "Kill Capitalism: Vote Republican!"

My feelings toward capitalism are ambivalent. I hate it as a system, but I am not willing to have a lot of people die as it goes through its death throws as it is starting to do now in Europe and is soon to do here. I would favor the one who would stabilize things.

To actually save the system one would have to do more than any politician is willing to do at this time. That is because it would involve taking out certain bad apples like the banksters. They would not let go willingly so it would mean jailing or killing them. They have way too much control and would have to be overthrown in a revolutionary manner. At this time, it is not an option. The only option is between two presidential candidates, neither of which will save this system. The system is going down in flames and it is really a question of who will bring things down with the least death toll. I think Romney is the best choice. This has nothing to do with his economics, which is more of that same old warmed over Reagan. I think that if faced with a crisis, he will try not to get people killed. He is at heart American and does not want a bunch of dead Americans. Obama, on the other hand, seems to love all these foreign types more than Americans. I think if a bunch of people here were getting killed, he would be indifferent.

It will come to a crisis. I try to picture what each man would do in some crisis. I think that because Romney leans more nationalist and less pro-foreign, that he would tell a bunch of foreign debt holders demanding austerity to take a hike (if they push too far). On the other hand, Obama would insist we pay them no matter how much it hurts.

When a country has its back up against a wall and is suffering extortion by banksters, a real leader would tell them to take a hike. Spain should just leave Euro and go back to its own currency and make its own rules, as should Greece, and even the others. the idea of some foreigners dictating economic policy to a sovereign nation would make our forefathers roll over in their graves.

AlexTheBlade ... first, Mas and the Parliment of Catalonia have already approved a referendum for independence (though non-binding) for November. That said, it is true the crisis for all tense and purposes started in the USA.

[And by the way ultimately it should be put at the door steps of Bill Clinton, the MOST FINANCIALLY DESTRUCTIVE PRESIDENT IN U.S. HISTORY in a) Revoking the Glass-Steagall Act with his buddies of Goldman-Sachs (Robert Rubin, Lawrence Summers ring a bell?) who he ultimately brought to government and Alan Greenspan; b) Deregulating the derivatives market by derailing the efforts of Brookley Born (among notables), head of the CFTC, in check-and-balancing toxic collateralized-debt-obligations, such as sub-prime derivatives, which ultimately ballooned to nearly 900 TRILLIONS dollars of toxic securities which ultimately collapsed world economies, including Spain (how much was Bush's adventure in Iraq and Afghanistan costing 1, 2 Trillions at 'worst'?); and c) Drafting free-trade treaties without capital and labor-return to capital value-added safeguards to preserve key sectors and industries from being sucked away by labor-sinkholes countries like China that have left this country bereft of a manufacturing base.]

But what is also very true is the years of economic Moral Hazard put in place by Socialist Governments both at the Spanish State and the Autonomous Communities in extreme entitlements out of touch with an industrial and productive base to support it; which also encouraged an obscene speculative real-estate growth (nearly one-in-five personal real estate properties are vacant, for example).

Hey, don't worry, some people are doing great!

"…The financial vultures who control the main investment houses send stock markets soaring with each new assault on jobs and social programs—as they did Friday after the Spanish government, presiding over a country in deep recession, unveiled a draft budget that slashes spending by $51 billion next year…"

What is behind the global stock market rally?

29 September 2012

Despite a string of disastrous economic figures, stock markets throughout the world are surging..

…The boom in stock prices is an expression of a global redistribution of wealth from the bottom to the top. The social conditions of the working class have been driven relentlessly downwards, while trillions of dollars have been turned over to the banks, mainly for the purpose of financial speculation…

…The financial vultures who control the main investment houses send stock markets soaring with each new assault on jobs and social programs—as they did Friday after the Spanish government, presiding over a country in deep recession, unveiled a draft budget that slashes spending by $51 billion next year…

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/sep2012/pers-s29.shtml

As popular opposition grows

Austerity budgets imposed across Europe

By Alex Lantier

29 September 2012

The French, Spanish and Greek governments all announced multibillion-euro austerity plans yesterday in the face of massive popular opposition.

The French budget presented by the Socialist Party (PS) government of President François Hollande is the harshest since the austerity budgets of the early 1980s under PS President François Mitterrand. It calls for €30 billion (US$38.6 billion) in deficit cuts, including €20 billion in tax increases and €10 billion in spending cuts.

The Spanish budget calls for €13.4 billion in spending cuts in the fourth major package of austerity measures passed this year following the election of the conservative Popular Party (PP) last November. The ministries whose budgets will be most severely cut include Agriculture, Industry and Education.

Greece’s coalition government—which includes the right-wing New Democracy (ND), the social democratic PASOK, and the Democratic Left (DIMAR)—announced that it will unveil a plan Monday for €11.5 billion in spending cuts. Plans for these cuts were first announced in July, but the government initially failed to reach an agreement on how to distribute them.

In each country, the new austerity measures are being pushed through in defiance of public opinion. On Wednesday, millions of workers throughout Greece walked off the job and hundreds of thousands protested in a one-day national strike. On Tuesday, tens of thousands of protesters opposed to the cuts marched to the parliament in Madrid and were brutally attacked by riot police…

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/sep2012/euro-s29.shtml

IMHO-2730490

After the Banks are done with you, after the rich have taken everything, after they lower the salaries below subsistance levels, then the corporations and RWNJ's want you to pay for it.

Reality has a Liberal Bias.

Start the economy, get us out of this economic hole the conservatives and right wing nut jobs got us into.

Your opinion isn't humble, it's biased, politically biased (like the Lame Stream Media), ignorant and corrupt. Conservatives didn't cause this, it started with Bill Clinton, who forced FIDC'ed banks to laon money to minorities. And In April 2001, less than 2 1/2 months after taking office, Bush's economic advisers warned of the impending dangers, and were pushing hard to regulate the GSE.... But the liberal dumbasses like Barney Frank, Franklin Raines and Maxine Water laughed, literally, they laughed at the idea. They wanted to spend your country's tax dollars with total disregard (or did they know what they were doing) to the nation.

You need only go to YOUTUBE and search for yourself.... dumbass.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HQWk1Wp3L4

"Reality has a liberal bias" you absolute fk'ing moron. People like you, people exactly like you, will be wondering what the Fk happened when your country is gone, and all that remains are filthy rich career politicians, and private businesses and rich industrialist are but mere footnotes in your grandchildren's history books.

The fact of the matter for Spain is simple, painfully simple, Spain's voting population have elected too many career politicians', who are also lean toward socialism. It didn't happen over night, and it's been a long time coming. Greece was the first, and I can't think of a more perfect example nor more perfect experiment.... an isolated island nation. It's not rocket science that Greece was the first to fall, and if you had what it takes to educate yourself, you would find out exactly why Spain is in the mess they're in.

After reading the story and the comments I am inclined to believe the readers did not understand the story. Everything payed for by the government until they went broke. Does that strike any of you who are ragging on the elite as significant? Like the guy who had gone to school for free to find out there were no jobs. That is how this social crud works. No jobs no money, you can blame the banks, the elite global warming but never blame yourself. It is always someone else who is getting ahead or something for free. None of the crud is free, stop acting like it is somebody's fault, stop whining and being jealous of those who work hark and succeed and stop blaming everyone else. Social causes are great, I believe in most of them but there is a cost and right now the cost is overwhelming us and them. Stop whining and get your government back to work on running the country and the social issues will work out. We do not need unemployment we need jobs and this current administration has no clue how to create them.

Hello Irvmani, if hard work is what makes a person wealthy then the roles would be reversed with the 1%ers who were born with a silver spoon up their a$$. Most of the people I know are hard workers and still struggle to make ends meet. Your indoctrination is thorough!

I'm trying to figure out where all the youth of these various countries (Greece, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Italy...) are going to find work outside of their respective countries..? In the USA??? I DONT THINK SO, BUDDY!!! We cant find jobs here as it is, thanks to corporate raiders and illegal aliens... China? Not likely - given they are now pumping in stimulus money nonstop in the form of overproduction and empty massive CITIES - trying to keep thier own economic wolves at bay... No matter where these guys go, they are going to have problems... You just dont blithely skip to some other country and get a job, unless you are from South America crossing into USA and willing to make 5 cents on the dollar relative to the legal residents.

And heres another thought for you people mired down in these struggling countries. This elite bankster occupation is global. It is selfishness that got us here.. it is decades of people saying "well, its not happening to ME, so Im just gonna keep my mouth shut, order a pizza, and watch tv"... Ignoring the problems around you because they arent immediately affecting you is a kind of selfishness that is parallel to the selfishness of the elite class that brought us here.

Your duties now, all of you, all of us, is to stand fast. It is not to scatter like rats from a sinking ship to foreign lands, it is to FIGHT. Stand and fight for your countries, because there IS no place to run to. All of Europe, Asia, and most importantly, USA - we used to be a beacon of DEMOCRACY. We have long ago morphed into a plutocratic corporatocracy. And for those of you here in the USA who are dogmatic, who are not yourselves suffering so havent had a miraculous conversion to the truth of the present reality, I suggest you OPEN YOUR EYES and SEE the protests happening globally. It is unprecedented that so many countries in Eurpoe are having mass riots over austerity. It IS UNPRECEDENTED! We ARE in a Global Depression. At this point, if you dont see what is happening, you are blind.

You cannot impoverish a society enough to make a nation prosperous.

Thank you!! ... Go Rajoy! ... All power to you in correcting all the hare-brained and fiscally destructive past policies of the Socialists!

(... and I am so sure that is what you meant!)

If only the RWNJ's would let you fix your infrastructure.

When will the first country bolt for fascism? It's only a matter of time.

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of
state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

maybe you have not noticed that the protests only get big around the time when people are NOT Working. Most of those people are likely working and are not the cheese addicts you think they are

Give me a break. Spain had over 8% unemployment before the recession even began.

only thing i got to ask is, if these are just wellfar bums, why do the big numbers not come out around noon one a tuesday ... DING! cuz many of them are at work.

you may have noticed the same pattern at occupy Wall street, the big numbers came out starting 5pm local time...

that picture was already in Times square in New York... at the same time, no such image existed for Cali

try to keep up

People want to work in Spain ok, there are no free loaders here. In the US you had the common sense of an ECONOMIC STIMULUS, but here in Spain, the party in power is using this economic crisis as an excuse to dismantle workers and social rights and implement their FAR RIGHT SOCIAL AGENDA . The main issue which is JOBSSSSSSSSSS have been ignored for more than 9 months now. Things are hot right now, and it will get hotter in the next few months when the latest austerity measures kick in.

Zeroumus

only thing i got to ask is, if these are just wellfar bums, why do the big numbers not come out around noon one a tuesday ... DING! cuz many of them are at work.

The FULL story will tell you, just like here, PUBLIC workers are against taking away ANY of their perks. It's just not the poor and unemployed we're talking about.

I predict a HUGE uprising here also, as public workers at worse, only get a pay freeze. It's not the pay so much, as the benefits that are worth at least 60% of their wages. And many, like out town of 5,500 , STILL give raises yearly (just gave everyone 3% this year). But again, BENEFITS...who on earth gave public workers a pension with ONLY 25 years service? Which unlike private workers, can collect IMMEDIATELY. For what, nother 25 years? But worse, we the taxpayer continue to pay their medical after their retirement(not seen in the private workforce).

County wide, public workers receive in wages alone, more than twice the median household income, and that's the lowly sanitation worker. This divide between the haves and havenots, will only get worse, as cities refuse to cut benefits, any, at all.

(still can't believe they receive their pension with only 25 years service..wow...WHATTA PERK). Course, many do the double dip thing, continue working, AND recieve their pension check. Greece and Spain and other countries, and even some of OUR major cities, are feeling the heat from having to fund those benefits. Just a matter of time before it's big news here. The average Joe is getting tired of this !

wiseman-1905330

. In the US you had the common sense of an ECONOMIC STIMULUS

Not sure where you get your news, but that 'stimulus' was a huge failure. The major bulk of it, went to states and county and city general funds, which enabled those entities to continue funding public workers, another 2 years. With that '2 year warning' NONE of them addressed revenue funding issues. Just a little bandaid was all it was. It benefitted very few private industries, and many of those were for gov. jobs (cleaning superfund sites for instance).

Good luck though, to you, us, and everyone, we're going to need it !!!

A book comes to mind... Atlas Shrugged anyone?

...less then 1 percent read comments longer then 50 words

Ahhhh the RWNJ's are out spreading lies and voting for fascism. Astounding.

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of
state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

IMHO

Why would you quote a mad dictator? Why don't you share some quotes from Hitler while your at it?Clearly you idolize despotic individuals.

You mean like double-dipping federal judges? How about the new Billings, Montana federal courthouse that opened in September? WTF does Billings MT need a new courthouse for? Four federal judges? Seriously? Montana has four federal courthouses alone. This kind of waste is rampant throughout the U.S.

Common Sense,

If it is a federal courthouse in Montana then I can assure you that it is no more than a modular office placed on cinder blocks. Don't confuse it with a marble encrusted building in DC.

Canada reduced taxes and spending and they are stablizing their economy.

its actually been pretty stable for a long time, nothing new here.

Canada is also falling back on it's vast natural resources. Big deal, Saudi Arabia and Nigeria do that too.

I wonder how stable Canada would be without oil and gas. The "free" Canadian healthcare is propped up by oil money. That's why they want the Keystone pipeline. I recall a company looking into fracking in Alberta 20 years ago. Canadians pretend to be environmentalists, but the bottom line is they want as much CO2 as they can produce.

Road Warrior,

I live in Canada and I can tell you that things are pretty good here, but products are expensive despite the CAN$ being more valuable than the US$. Canadians forget how much they rely on their natural resources for the economy and social programs. Canada only has a population with 34Million people and a land size almost as big as the US. Take for example Spain is a small country with 47 Million people. Take Canada and make it the size of Spain and the exact same problems with unemployment, debt, and etc would be occurring.

A vote for Johnson is a vote for Obama. I have voted Libertarian for the last 24 years. It's Romney this time. Anyone is better than what we have seen the last four years.

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of
state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

Vote for Romney, vote for the corporations.

Reality has a Liberal Bias.

Every job I have ever gotten were with corporations. Profit is not a four letter word. It is profits that makes economic growth and job creation possible. No OWS person has ever provided me a job.

No corporation got profits buying its own product.

It takes citizens who have jobs to do that and corporations that do not hire are worthless to a nation.

And corporations are OWNED by citizens. By some stock IMHO and join the crowd.

Too bad our government still hasn't figured that out.

I have Spain called alot of things, but never a "conservative" government. You probably think Calfornia is conservative.

A conservative in Europe is the same as the far left in the US. They're to the left of us in all respects. If there was fiscal conservatism in Europe, Spaniards would have private sector jobs, so would Greece etc.

The scary thought for them is that Spaniards who have skills and the family flexibility to find jobs outside Spain will do so - meaning they will get jobs outside Spain and therefore not live off the taxpayers of Spain. Also this means they will not pay taxes to Spain. While many who can leave will not do so for other reasons such as caring for elderly parents, there will be quite a few others who will stay back due to lack of skills to get jobs on their own merits. This latter group won't cut it in the real world without the bottomless pocket of the taxpayers to pay for the lifestyles they feel entitled to.

That's the real tragedy of European style socialism. Generous to a fault with other people's money, till the few that provide the golden eggs leave for less onerous environs.

I don't know much about Spain, but I assume their problems are the same as Greece. I do know something about Greece. My boss is Greek and he travels home once a year for vacation. He shakes his head and tells me the Greeks would riot if they are asked to work a 40-hour week and they retire at 51 and get a life-time pension equal to 90% of their salary.Who is sucking who dry?

Ok maybe they are lazy I dont know but you print fiat currency, you get paid back in fiat labor, makes sense to me.

Personally I blame the one who loaned. I mean what is interest for? Its a payment for risk. You cant expect to get paid for zero risk. So they loan liberally and when they dont get paid, they try to take the government over and sap it. FOUL PLAY. You loaned the money, YOU EAT IT. Dont loan it next time.

Yes, this is what happens when the rich don't want any risk. Take over the government and force the people to pay back those loans.

Atlas Shrugged anyone?

And who are the looters? It isn't the workers.

I have every expectation that people the world over can do quite well for themselves when the government provides equal opportunity and does not have behavior distorting tax policies. Spaniards are no different, I hope Spain, Greece, Italy etc. have fiscal reform and do well for themselves.

@Willie

Please provide proof of your claim. What law or regulation forced them to loan all that money? I and many others keep asking this question but never get a response.

These people have guts, something Americans don't have. We should be out in the streets with signs like "Throw the Bums Out".

How much guts does it take to hold up signs and chant? What takes guts is waking up every morning at 5:00 and put in a 12-hour day. And where have you been? We have OWS.

The problem is that the government has been more than willing to give people what they want in terms of benefits and services without them having to pay for it. That is how politicians have bought votes for decades. Now that the well is beginning to run dry, people are going to have to give up some of those services and benefits or be willing to pay much higher taxes to fund them. There is not much politicians can do at this point. The gravy train is ending.

You go out in the streets like that and these scumbags running this country would have martial law going full throttle.Look around you.This country is already under martial law most of the people on here are arguing about the Spaniards and the Portuguese,don't even have a clue.

News Flash it's not your government anymore,it's not their government anymore,it's the New World Order/Globalist's government,here and abroad.They have puppets running it.

There's an election coming up whether it be Obummer,or Mittens Romney,they both work for the same bosses, under different party names,and those parties,both belong to those bosses.

Whoever wins doesn't make a dam difference,because as the song goes,The New Boss is the same as the Old Boss,and we won't be fooled again.The problem being the American Gullible Public will be fooled again.

The republicans shot veterans in WA DC before the depression. The veterans were demanding their promised bonus. The republicans weren't in power for 20 years afterwards.

Care to try round two?

IMHO,

If you want to go back decades, it was the Democrats who opposed the Civil Rights Act. They were the party of Lester Maddox and George Wallace. The Democrats opposed integration. And the Democrats are still opposing school choice for inner city students. I see a pattern of keeping blacks down.

Both parties Repugs and Democrits,both bought and sold by the Globalists.Of course you people still think it's business as usual.Keep dreaming!

By the way Road Warrior you're talking about keeping blacks down.Have you seen the viral video of the Black Woman in Cleveland,singing the praises of her Obama Phone? Oh yeah bought and paid for by your tax money.Watch it!

Globalists love seeing people dummbed down, stupid, and dependant this way!

And the looters would be the corporations, GOP, the uber rich. sad.

IMHO,

isn't ironic then that the top five richest people in the U.S. are far-left libs. They are buying you as a slave and keep you pointed at others.

How do you think they are elected year after year? The people want them there. They have a right to have the representative of their choice. Term limits takes their vote from them. Term limits is not the answer. Campaign finance reform is! It's time we stop letting millionaires and corporations decide what our representatives do after elected. It costs too much money for people to run for office. We are cutting out many worthy candidates because of this. Our government should not depend on who has the most money to run on.

According to the Congressional Budget Office most of those tax cuts went and continue to go to those in the middle class and below. If you want enough tax revenue to pay for everything fine - be willing to have EVERYONE pay much higher taxes.

By the way, as you can see from the following data from the U.S. Treasury on our national debt, it really is Obama, plus Reid and Pelosi, who are responsible for the huge increase in our total national debt.

$5,662,216,013,697 – (01/01/2001) Bush2 about to take office

$8,680,224,380,086 – (01/01/2007) Reid & Pelosi take control of Congress

$10,699,804,864,612 – (01/01/2009) Obama about to take office

$16,046,680,286,836 – (09/07/2012)

I never mentioned increasing tax rates...

Increasing consumer demand will increase government revenue by creating more jobs and more people paying into the system. It will also encourage salary increases and pushing people into higher brackets.

The issue right now isn't tax rates as much as the number of people contributing due to lack of jobs/sufficient income. Stimulus during a downturn increases tax revenue over the long haul. Obviously not to the extent that it's given out initially, but once the economy recovers, most of those people will either keep their jobs or continue to see increases. Again, leading to an increase in government revenue without resorting to the 'cut taxes' mantra.

Posting deficit numbers is irrelevant at this time. The deficit will ALWAYS rise under a major recession. The key is what happened to the deficit when economic conditions were good (under Bush). Technically, it should have gone down since the government had a surplus.

We are not going to see big increases in consumer demand in this country, our population is growing too slowly for that. Here is the data from the 2010 Census. In the 10 years from 2000-2010, our 45 and older population grew a total of 25.6%. In those same 10 years our under 45 population grew only a mere 1.4%. That is not 1.4% per year, that is 1.4% total for 10 years. That under 45 population is going to be the core of consumer demand in this economy for the coming decades for housing, transportation, etc. I already have more than enough McDonalds and other restaurants nearby to meet my needs. I have more than enough places to shop and there is plenty of items to choose from. Bottom line, we are not going to see any big boom in consumer demand because of demographics, the same demographics that is wrecking havoc with Social Security and Medicare.

In the past 5 years we have pumped $5 trillion of "stimulus" into our economy and it has given us GDP growth under 2% for the last 2 years. We have been deficit spending since 1957, our last REAL balanced budget. Economic theories work until they don't. Keynesian economics never accounted for high debt to GDP ratios. It was supposed to be "temporary" high spending for a couple years. We are long past that point. Austerity is on the way. It is just a question of when, not if.

You must be a typical liberal PURELYINDY. What happens when the world finally figures out that we are not changing our ways and they stop loaning us money?...

The interest rate goes up? Since you are a monetary genius go figure what 10% interest on 16 - 20 trillion is and then add that to our national budget.

It spells BANKRUPT! But since we can print our own money UNLIKE Greece, and SPAIN, we will make the USD worth so little, you will need a wheelbarrow of dollars to buy a loaf of bread.

We have been living on borrowed money for too long and either we stop borrowing or somebody will decide for us.

Then the 'keep spending' path back to prosperity will become just what puts us in a place where you will envy Spain and greece.

PUre...You have no idea what austerity is supposed to do. Before you make the claim that austerity doesn't work, have the decency to at least look up the definition of austerity.

It's well known that a HUGE chunk of our population is unable to pay taxes. Those people are living off of the handouts currently so they do not die or have to resort to crime to feed their families. The goal of stimulus is to drive demand so that many of those have the opportunity to find a job, start a company, learn a new trade. At the same time as bolstering small businesses. People seem to forget that the people living off of welfare and food stamps are paying those 100% of moneys to local businesses. If you cut them off, the economy as a whole will suffer.

I agree it's a balancing act, but the time to get it to balance is not when you have the global economy sitting it's fat butt on one side of the scale. If you do, you will overcompensate.

We have nowhere NEAR the social programs or financial problems of Greece and Spain, to compare us to them is propaganda meant to scare people. Thank you for tossing out the obligatory 'liberal', it shows your bias.

It's not a matter of what austerity is MEANT to do. It's what it will do. It, like it has in Spain and Greece, will make matters harder for people, not easier.

Our deficit is a HUGE problem. i agree. But this is not the time for us to try to pay it down. There are not enough people contributing to the coffers.

To pay your bills off you need increased, steady income. The U.S. currently lacks that... much due to the Federal government assisting broke states (~$84 bil shortfall this year for the ten worst states). The shortfall is due to the housing market killing property taxes, a leading revenue source for state governments, collapsing. State goes broke, and the Federal government steps in to assist.

Austerity won't do anything except lead to more people being laid off.

When is the right time to have austerity? In times of prosperity, the Democrats insist that we (the taxpayers) can afford to pay for this that and the other, so its not the right time to cut government spending. In times of penury, the Democrats again insist that it's not the right time to cut government spending. So when is the right time to spend less than the taxpayers put into their government?

When we're not in a recession. When the economy is stable you can take a real look at what works and what doesn't. During the first 7 Bush years would have been perfect... Just like Clinton's last years...