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Subscribe to RSSThe pope's former butler is accused of stealing thousands of private papal documents. In the "Vatileaks" trial that has captured the world, Paolo Gabriele tells the court why he did it. NBC's Michelle Kosinki reports.
Members of the Vatican police force said Wednesday that some of the documents found at the home of Pope Benedict XVI's former butler were signed by the pope with a note that they should be destroyed. Some of the papers were about the pontiff's "private life," an officer said.
The police were testifying in the trial of Paolo Gabriele, the pope's once-trusted butler who faces four years in prison if convicted of aggravated theft for stealing papal documents and leaking them to a journalist in the so-called "Vatileaks" affair.
Officers also said that the theft of encrypted Vatican documents had compromised some Vatican operations, and that Gabriele had printed instructions on how to hide computer files and use cellphones secretly.
The final four witnesses were heard Wednesday and closing arguments are set for Saturday, when a verdict by the three-judge Vatican panel is expected.
Pope's ex-butler says eyesight was damaged by 24-hour light in Vatican cell
Vatican police inspector Silvano Carli said that of the hundreds of thousands of documents seized from Gabriele's home — they filled 82 moving boxes — about 1,000 were of interest since they were original or photocopied Vatican documents.
Some came from the pope's office, some carried the processing codes of the secretariat of state, others originated in various Vatican congregations "and some documents concerned the total privacy and private life of the Holy Father," said police officer Stefano De Santis.
Video shows and anti-austerity protester jumping the railing at the observation deck atop St. Peter's Basilica at the Vatican to set up camp with a sign on the iconic Italian dome. NBC's Michelle Kosinski reports.
He said some of the originals carried the pope's handwriting with a note to destroy them written in German. Some were reproduced in journalist Gianluigi Nuzzi's book "His Holiness: Pope Benedict XVI's secret papers," he said.
Freemasony, yoga, Vatican bank
The rest of the documentation concerned esoteric religious issues and academic research into Freemasonry, Christianity, Buddhism, yoga and politicians, as well as the Vatican Bank, the officers said.
"See how much I like to read and study," De Santis quoted Gabriele as telling the officers during the search of his home.
Pope Benedict's XVI former butler took the stand in a Vatican courtroom and admitted to stealing private documents from the papal apartment, but Paulo Gabriele said he didn't feel guilty of aggravated theft. He also said he feels guilty of betraying the pontiff's trust. NBC's Claudio Lavanga reports.
Prosecutors have said Gabriele, a devout 46-year-old father of three, confessed to leaking copies of the documents to Nuzzi because he wanted to expose the "evil and corruption" in the church to help put it back on the right path.
Gabriele said Tuesday he stood by his June 5 confession and acknowledged he betrayed the pope's trust, but he nevertheless pleaded innocent to the charge of aggravated theft.
Pope Benedict: 'Sadness in my heart' over butler leak scandal
The security breach within the pope's own entourage has been one of the most damaging scandals of his seven-year papacy.
The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.
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It is obvious that this fellow certainly was no true believer in the doctrine of the Church, of which he was a trusted member...sorta like pedophile priests or predatory ministers and rabbis who wear the cloth as a costume rather than as a sign of their faith.
The pope owes this man as much as JP2 owed his attempted assassin...the man considers "faith" to be little more than a tool.
I have no idea what these documents say (or if they really point out "evil and corruption", or have any meaning or value to them whatsoever), but if the documents showed something bad like that the pope was involved in some way with something akin to what you mention as pedophile priests wearing the cloth as a costume, wouldn't you want to know about it? Would that change your opinion? If these documents showed that high-ranking church members were using faith as a tool to gain power or influence or wealth?
I would agree that the motives of this man are unknown, and are possibly to get his 15 minutes of fame at the expense of the church, but from the information in this article, and one that I read several weeks ago when this was new, we cannot discern from the information here which of these two (or possibly other) scenarios it is. At any rate, it is highly unlikely that this event will spur any changes at the Vatican (other than perhaps heightened security)-I would predict that business will continue as usual.
Yes, because hiding anything that proves the Church's corruption is part of the Church's doctrine. The Church should have "not being corrupted" as part of it's doctrine instead.
If anyone is going against Church doctrine, its the Vatican itself with all the reported corruption, power plays, and inner scandals. Its no wonder the pope wanted all these destroyed.Its just another hole in the credibility of this religion.
Personally, I think the butler was doing the Vatican a favor. I think God would be truly ashamed at what the Catholic Church has become.
Oh come on, this butler is not devout. This article neglected to report that many valuables were found in this man's apartment including gold, a priceless document AND a check for $130,000 made out to the Pope from a patron.
The Church has not changed ANY doctrine nor has any of the teachings been changed. There are always evil people posing as men of God in ALL religions and ALL walks of life. I would think that the possible corruption in the Vatican State PALES in comparison to most governments.
These documents most likely include pictures of naked altar boys at one of the Pope's sleepovers. Which newspaper or network will be the first to pony up the big bucks for pictures of the holy father playing "hide the sausage" with a group of underage boys?
If Jesus's "representative on earth" has THAT much to hide from folks, he should definitely step down. It's very obvious that some people are trying to spin this incident in the pope's favor which only makes those people and the Vatican appear even more corrupt and deceitful.
The vatican has been hiding tons of information since the scriptures were first found.Women have been degraded because of the MANS world. Mary Magdelon was made a prostitute because she really close to Jesus. Who was made into the son of God so that a new religion could be made to get away from the Jews who became Romes tax collector. Lets see the scripture that Rome and King James took out of the Bible.Let us see the TRUE BIBLE, not what they have now.
So kill the messenger. Ignore the SCANDAL and punish the whistleblower.
We've heard this crap before from sycophants and appeasers. In France, you'd have been licking Nazi ass. And that analogy isn't all that far off, considering the Pope was a Hitler Youth.
"If these documents showed that high-ranking church members were using faith as a tool to gain power or influence or wealth?"
That is all religion is and has ever been.
At the end of the day it all comes down to what is good for business, becuse that's what the Roman Catholic Church is at the end of the day. A business. What is left to argue about is what they are selling, fear or hope.
And the RCC is not alone in this. All religions, with the possible exception of Buddhism, are about mind control.
Seem the butler just wanted to shed some light in places where His Holiness didn't want it.
The Pope is a polytheist JOKE! The entire Catholic religion is fraught with corruption, greed polytheists and sexual predators. The bible says no graven images and yet the pope, Mary, Saint what's his or her name all graven images against the lords commandments. Polytheistic Catholics are NOT following the ten commandments and are therefor null and void.
He is a true believer which is why he did what he did. He saw corruption and evil in the church and wanted to expose it. Should he have sat idly by and be a good catholic and turn a blind eye to everything they do?
This is why I no longer give $$$ directly to the church.
I'll give it directly to the poor and donate time to other worthy organizations.
@Linda M-311663 "Most" governments don't claim to represent God on earth. What do you think would happen if congress was raping small children for years and the President was covering it all up? What an asinine thing to say the vatican's corruption pales when compared to most governments.
Linda M and New Gawker...
"And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all of them who sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, and said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."
Child molesters, a doctrine of hate and judgment, vaults of valuables, a Bank on the property, Is there really any doubt what Jesus would do with the Vatican?
Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.
Tiler
Your ignorance of the church is showing, because of confusion of scripture from some about Mary Magdalen, in 1969 the Church officially stated that their belief is that Mary Magdalen is NOT the same Mary that is the prostitute. Mary was the most common name at the time and possibly outnumbered all other names combined for women.
Become? the catholic church as always been the largest political party in the world.
So the Vatican has gone from its purported mission of saving souls to operative. The devil seems to have proliferated into the details.
@LindaM: how can you know this butler was not devout? Perhaps you just don't want him to be. And how can you know that "most governments" are more corrupt than the Vatican? That would actually surprise me, since the Vatican's history of corruption is particularly impressive over the many centuries it has been powerful. Don't forget it was the Vatican that cleared thousands of German Nazi war criminals for Red Cross visas after WWII, enabling them to escape justice, going mostly to Argentina, where they and their disciples were then responsible for many thousands more murdered people in concentration camps. Then there is the more recent and despicable history of child molestation covered up by the Vatican for many decades and even worse -- allowed to continue! I think the worst, the very worst evil, is that which parades around as saintly. I'm amazed at your remarks.
WWJD? Evidently get a shredder and a rubber stamp that says "Beweis - Zerstore".
What many people don't realize is that, while the Bible has a passage that says 'Thou shalt not lie with a man as with a woman, it is a detestable thing' (okay I know recent translations of the bible say 'abomination' but the 1961 copy I have says 'detestable' so that's what I'm sticking with).
Nowhere does it say that 'Thou shalt not lie with a child as with an adult', so therefore per the Bible sex with children is OK (so long as it is not your child--the Bible says thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter, son, mother, father, mother in law, aunt, etc)...but says NOTHING about other people's children, so pedophilia is apparently not a sin in the Abrahamic belief system.
Which makes sense as there was no such thing as pedophilia then--life was short, and hard, infant mortality was high, and it was biologically advantageous to marry early and often in hopes of having at least ONE child who survived to adulthood. This is the same fallacy as in the argument that the Muslim Prophet Muhammad was a 'pedophile'--there WAS no such thing as pedophilia back then!
(Oh, and BTW--the Bible says nothing about 'women lying with women' being an abomination, so apparently God (or the Nicene Councils who put the Bible together) thinks two women making out is hot just like 95% of the rest of the males of the human species.So Lesbians are okay, just not gays. i wonder why God has a double standard.)
I believe a college student was prosecuted for invading the privacy of a sodomite who committed suicide. So what's unfair about a traitor butler being prosecuted?
Dude stole Pope's stuff and absolutely deserves to be punished, all the fairy tale stories aside. As usual, this seems to be a simple case of GREED, like this guy was no being paid enough already. Let the m-f rot in jail for a decade at least.
The Vatican itself hasn't even been in existence for a century yet. The seat of Christian power used to be in Rome until the mid 1800's, when it was invaded by the Italians and the Pope withdrew to the Apostolic Palace on a hill called Vatican Hill. In 1929 Benito Mussolini signed a charter that created the city-state we now call Vatican City and the Apostolic Palace is now the Vatican Palace. Now this gilded palace is the pope's official residence and the home of his Popemobile and personalized Prada slippers.
If we all remember, Jesus wore a robe, sandals, and had no home. Why on Earth do so many people continue to follow the teachings of a Pope who so clearly does not believe in what he teaches since he doesn't practice it in his personal life?
"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
"Give all you have to the poor, and follow me."
He should be punished for theft, but not for violation of his oath to God.
Dirty dog--the college student was convicted of a hate crime. This is very different--he's a whistleblower being persecuted by powe.r
Could/would the Vatican plant evidence in this guys residence/office to portray him as a "thief" instead of a concerned Church member? Absolutely, they've proven that over and over. I think it says something that this guy probably could have fled to almost any country and been granted asylum (isn't that what the wikileaks guy did?) but he took responsibility for taking and releasing the documents. To me that's not the behavior of a criminal. The fact that the Vatican and the media are focusing more on the guy who TOLD about corruption rather than the actual corruption says something also. This is like blaming Mike McQueary for reporting the Penn State abuse rather then the abuser and the people who covered it up.
"Compromised Vatican operations"....are you kidding me? This is a religion and a church state. Holy crap, if they have to hide stuff....and operations could be compromised what the hell are they up to?
This should be about our faith, our belief and our God rooted in our history and not about "operations"--where is the transparency and the honesty at the Vatican and with the Pope?
doesn't it sound like scientology when they use that wording?
Follow the money. See who has ties to the Vatican, Look for documents with those "famous" and not so famous who have seen all the previous pope's - Search, Search, Search.
......If you do that you'll see.
The Vatican is NOT what they make themselves to be.....
Orly... can you possibly be more vague?
Kane -- Perhaps they feel that confidentiality is appropriate in some cases. I don't blame them for not wanting confidential papers leaked for people to try to interpret totally out of context. Just look at what several ignorant people are writing on this vine with absolute zero knowledge of what's actually in those papers. I wonder what conclusions they would jump to if they had a taste of what is in those papers. Notes on confidential counseling perhaps? Nothing so salacious as other people's business is there? Especially if it's not you. Just because the church does not want their private communications and notes stolen and leaked to the public doesn't mean they are hiding anything dangerous, maybe just respecting others' privacy unlike the once trusted butler. I wonder how you would like someone leaking your private information for the world to see. Have anything in your life that you feel should be kept private?
KANE
You must also be dishonest, I see you didn't divulge all your financial information and personal information on here, where is your trust and faith? If you have to hide stuff, then what the hell are YOU up to? I think the word here is... hypocrite..
he's so christ like and charitable isnt he?
he wanted to expose the "evil and corruption"---Everybody already Knows
somehow i just cannot fathom the notion that jesus intended for the head of his church to have a butler (or to rule a city state in what was the roman capital). 2000 years is apparently enough time to completely lose sight of what the founder of a religion intended.
Well let's see when you are 85 years old and work a 16 hour day whether you will need help. Many CEO's have personal valets to maximize their hours of productivity.
He also has assistants. A butler is quite ostentatious and reaks of class structure.
Yeah, I'm sure he works 16 hour days - more like 16 minute days, before he gets tired and has to take a nap.
Oh wait, he needs a butler to help him take those 100 karat gem rings off of his fingers. You know, the ones he got from poor people's donations to the church.
@Tony-2279574 When CEO's start claiming to speak for God we'll clamp down on them also. But I do agree the pope is no different than any other person running a company for profit.
Haven't been paying attention to the GOP and it's leaders like Santorium, Perry, Bachmann and their owner/handlers the Kochs and Adelson have you?
Of course the pope needs a valet. Who else is going to change his diapers and wipe his arse when he is incontinent? And this is paid for by the believers; they pay his wages and pay to have his arse wiped.
dont be too sure of that,Jesus approved of slaves,its in the Gospels. That being said the Gospels and the bible were written by men, and that should tell you all you need to know about them.
He approved of slaves,,, man servant; maid servant.... PS 75yrs old still working no butler.. AT least thats what the hijacked scriptures say.
"Vatican operations" sounds REALLY creepy!! I can only imagine the sleeze...
News flash: The pope takes a crap just like all the rest of us. When will people learn that religion is just a business selling a product. Like the late night 'Save the Children' advertisers on TV, some folks will be foolish enough to send money without any idea where that money ends up. The Catholic Church is very similar to a pyramid scheme in that it requires ever increasing number of 'converts' to support its lavish spending. There is a reason they do not support birth control and it has nothing to do with 'religion'. The Catholic Church is responsible in large part for the over population in some parts of the world which has led to economic and personal misery. Poor people are more eager for a 'solution' and hence are the perfect candidates for the church. Wake up people!!!
Lumping all religion into one group then bashing it is ignorant and arrogant all at once. And remember if you do it you are no better than a racist or a bigot. It is the same thing.
Here in the good old US of A, I have the right to my opinion and to speak my opinion. When a group supports hate groups, and comes out saying anyone who does not believe as they do will burn in Hell, I know who the racists and bigots are.
Then call me a bigot Anthony because all religions are nothing more than fairy tale followers who can't produce one single shred of proof that god is any more a reality than Santa Claus.
All starts with Santa Claus, the Easter bunny and the tooth fairy... it is about time everyone realizes the truth. It is about control.... control over your everlasting soul... burning in hell and the devil. You know the guy that is behind everything evil in the world. Then there are the holy ones with bulging privates when they are near little boys.
Who are the real evil ones? gets easier and easier to determine as I grow older and wiser, and clutch ever so tightly to my wallet... easier for a camel to walk through the eye of a needle than for me to enter the kingdom of heaven. Rubbish all, yet I follow the 10 commandments to the letter and spirit, do you?
.
"Faith may be defined briefly as an illogical belief in the occurrence of the improbable." "Theology is the effort to explain the unknowable in terms of the not worth knowing. A church is a place in which gentlemen who have never been to heaven brag about it to persons who will never get there." "Archbishop - A Christian ecclesiastic of a rank superior to that attained by Christ." H.L. Menken
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." "After coming into contact with a religious man I always feel I must wash my hands." Friedrich Neitzsche
burning in hell and the devil
A couple of thoughts on the dear old devil
A. The devil is a made up entity used to scare you into doing as the church wishes.
B. The devil is a made up entity used to take the blame when the blame for evil should be placed where it belongs...on PEOPLE!
C. The devil is a made up entity that makes a great bad guys in movies and books.
That's all the devil is.
As for the ten commandments...I don't need them to tell me how to act decently in life. I can think for myself thank you. Made for a good movie though.
Speaking of the devil do you know where they got the modern model from I mean teh cloven hooves the goat legs and a few other qualities ... they took it from pagan religions to make it seem pagans were followers of evil and they were the knights in shiney armor with nice whits tabards who are goinig to convert all people to thier faith if they want it or not. I think the catholic church may have split off from christianity i saw a sigh that said "interested in the CATHOLIC FAITH"
I personally like to believe there is a higher entity, that we're not all just a little better than animals, eating, sleeping and having sex. I also like to think we have some kind of moral compass, hence good versus evil. Sometimes some people need to have a guide.
Ah, The Vatican - what secrets do you hold.....
NWO...
I have a lot of Catholic friends and none could ever explain why the Pope is so important. He is a figurehead and only a man. The Bible teaches us we need no intercessor other than Jesus. In other words we can pray to God directly. He hears us without any go between. In fact there are a lot of Catholic rituals which are not biblical at all. I'm not bashing Catholics here, I just dont understand.
as a catholic for 28 years and a now a christian for 23 years, you learn the facts ---the pope is not the head of Jesus's religion! please read the bible, catholic - as a religion, is never mentioned. it is man-made. the pope is just another man-made position.
Sorry to inform you, gigishell: the bible is man-made too.
au contraire, mon ami. not believing is your right.
I pray straight to the top, I do not ask any Saints to intercede. Although I do pay homage to the Holy Mother, and it states in the bible the prayer said to the Holy Mother. I show the pope the same respect as I show the POTUS. So not all Roman Catholics, I say Roman Catholics because they're actually 5 true Catholic churches, catholic actually meaning universal, bow down to the Holy Father.
BigBaldGuy and gigishell, So is God he is made in our image! Imagination! Yes I do believe.
WeALLHave, Bow Down to now one until you know who you are bowing down to! You only think you know who put the Bible her and why the Bible is here! Mans writings can be very deceiving!
bubba: Is it too much to ask that you spell correctly and use acceptable grammar you ignorant redneck?
Yes it is! Thank You, Not a Red neck you religious ignorant! Spell check has been used in all postings!!!!
You are your own worst enemy then. One cannot sound intelligent without spelling, grammar, and punctuation. Have a nice day.
You should learn to write. Since I am not talking I have no sound! Your statement should read. One can not write intelligent..., please correct yourself. Have a nice day. May God have Mersey on your inaccurate grammar.
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
- Matthew 16:18
Here Jesus explicitly endorses the creation of the Church, now known as the Roman Catholic Church, with saint Saint Peter (Greek for "rock") as its leader. Peter was the first Pope, and Benedict is his successor.
If you believe in the literal word of the Bible there is nothing ambiguous about this.
I sure hope bubba is being ironically sarcastic...
McGee: I have a napkin here that has, transcribed on it, the literal word of God. He says you must send all your money to me. See, it says so right there, at Bubba 1:02. Why aren't you complying? You know you're going to hell if you don't comply, right?
Checks in the mail! Oh! Sorry I made that out to the US of God! You won't mind will you. Words written by man only have as much meaning and worth as the MAN behind the words. Jesus is dead! SO is Peter!
In 329 CE the Council of Nicea started getting together all 8000 scrolls of Christian teachings that existed at the time. Years (and several councils later) the stuff they liked was put in a book and called 'The Bible' and the 'Word Of God.' (currently between 66 and 77 books.)
The stuff they didn't like was labeled 'Forbidden' and hidden away, then when the Vatican was created in 1929 those Forbidden Books were squirreled away in the Vatican archives, never to be seen again.
If this really is the 'Word of God' and not made by man, why is so much of it 'Forbidden' to you?
And believing is yours.
Hey Bubba: I went to Dictionary.com and looked up "sound." You will never guess what one of the definitions is:
to convey a certain impression when heard or read: to sound strange or ignorant.
Never get into a battle of wits with someone when you are completely unarmed!
And what were the others, never just read one! Out witted again! Your statement as used was still wrong grammar expert!!!
Well, can't answer that, OK BigBaldGuy how about this, you believe that definition. What is the definition for the bible and god and don't tell me you don't believe those. One definition is as correct as another. This is the got ya moment! I have not read the definition, I will trust you answer.
Can you please retype your question in English?
Yeah Mcgee but thats wrong too.He wasn't talking about Peter...go read some more.
Seriously? Chapter 16, verse 16, identifies the person speaking to Jesus as Simon Peter - Simon being Saint Peter's birth name
Verse 17 identifies him again, this time by the name Simon Bar-jonah (Simon, the son of Jonah).
In verse 19 Jesus says to Peter "I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven" which is why the coat of arms of the Vatican shows two crossed keys.
And no, I don't believe that the Bible is the literal word of God, but if you do it is pretty clear in establishing the legitimacy of the Roman Catholic Church. The early Church compiled the books of the Bible - why would they have permitted any text alluding otherwise?
Now you can't understand, I W I L L T Y P E S L O W L Y. What is the definition of god and the bible, since you believe the definition of sound, you will have to believe the definition of both god and the bible because definitions are correct according to you. Can't stand the challenge BigBaldGuy.
Oh sorry things are only correct if you determine them to be correct, because only your opinion is right and important. You sit here and debate with a person who does not believe in religion, the bible as a god thing, and god as the way most people would see him/she/it. Yet I made the mistake of putting you in the category of being a believer, now you if the definition in some dictionary states otherwise cannot prove you are not (The definition of sound is words on paper make sound Really) only if read out load, they have no other way to define what you here when you read or see a word. My spelling and grammar is terrible that I will be the first to admit, but you should not jump on someone, you are not that much better!
Sorry here should be hear!! See I can correct myself and admit my mistakes. I do apologize BigBaldGuy, Your opinion is important and very interesting. but the challange still stands.
Religion is a means to control the masses. All organized religion is about control, not freedom.
Amen!! Edie
Of course the Pope wanted the papers destroyed. All secretive criminal organizations go to great lengths to destroy and conceal evidence of their crimes.
Then he should have had his own gold plated paper shredder.
Two things: First, I can see why religionist habitually distinguish the "truth that will set you free" from facts.
Second, I note that the butler expressed feelings of guilt. Another specialty production of doctrinaire incantations. No wonder old Iraneus freaked out at the Gospel According to Thomas. It quoted Jesus as telling the flock that putting away shame was necessary to enter into the basilea ("kingdom").
The church is good at destroying documents (and modifying document) to meet their own ends. They did it in their bible.
What does the church need encrypted papers for? They are hiding something bad.
I am a catholic, and this is sickening.
The pope and every one in the vactican needs to be decapitated like they have done for years to people for money.
They are a bunch of greedy pieces of dogsh*t period.
There is some sick sh*t going down under that roof.
They have their own police they can corrupt and their own judge that is corrupt.
What do you expect I am sure it is run by the scumbag Italian mofia.
Italy is a breeding ground for corrpution period.
Just level the city.
Pope, you are a discrace, you know you are scum. Start showing a good example to the world.
Bunch of criminal pieces of sh*t hding behind religion.
People need to start believing in themselves not some myth.
Where crooked repersentatives tell you about god or your higher power.
Kind of sounds like the United States law/court systems. All about the almighty dollar.
ROFL, you are not a Catholic. The Pope is the Vicar of Christ here on earth and calling religion a myth is your choice. It also shows that you are an atheist and may you find the Truth about God!
gadgetman - You profess to be catholic but your rage-filled ravings show you to be a rather mediocre one. I am now a fully recovered catholic; left the church at 14 and have never looked back. Writing the way you do will not help in any way to advance your position.
You sound angry!? Are you a Baptist?
"The Pope is the Vicar of Christ here on earth and calling religion a myth is your choice. It also shows that you are an atheist and may you find the Truth about God!"
Oh the irony. LOL
By the way, Which God? There seems to be a large group to pick from.
Don't be silly, BP. "Mine" is the right one. Everybody else's is just a fake. Boy am I glad the other 6.9 billion people on the planet chose wrong! <phew>
I have recently renewed my faith in God. I know there is corruption in the church, but that is not what faith is about. For one thing, we should not put our faith in man, because we are all sinners, even if we are saved. We are uncapable of purity on our own, that is why Jesus Christ died for our sins. The Pope is just a man, and if you think about it, the Catholic Church is a bit occultish at times. They do bow before graven immages, they do place sanctitity in certain people. What do you think a saint is, a human being who at one point in time did some sort of mirracle in the eyes of the powers that be. My one question is this, how is the Pope supposed to be holy, what has he done to give him this reverence. I to the life of me have not seen or heard anything yet. Not to knock the Catholic church, but what gives them the right? We are all living in very grim days as of recent, and not to sound like a religous wakko, but dose it not feel a litle like the beging of the end, I mean am I the only one who feels this way? What we as Christians need to do more than ever is just keep our eyes and thoughts on what really matters, God, Christ, and the holy spirit. If we try and put a halo on anything besides these three individuals, we are bound to be disapointed. Thats all i got to say.
amen and amen. most catholics have scales on their eyes and just believe what they are told.....
Wow, that's the pot calling the kettle black! Christian are worse...
opinion....you probably don't know anyone that is REALLY a christian. Granted, alot of people SAY they are, THINK they are and PRETEND they are. Christians, true believers in the one true God, who put their entire trust and faith in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, are not perfect. but we are redeemed by the blood of the Lamb. Sadly, i have seen "christian" bumper stickers on Catholics vehicles, the drivers whom i knew personally. They were not Christians. ...there are some catholics who are christians, but they are the minority. once they know the truth, it is hard to stay in that religion.the bible says nothing about worshipping Mary (she was not divine), repetition of the SAME prayer, going thru a priest for confession. And their crucifix's show a dead Jesus. He is ALIVE! our crosses are empty !
When you can say that people who do not believe as you do will go to Hell, you are a screwed up lot.
End of statement.
I might get flamed for this but really don't care but the mass saying the same prayer over and over kinda sorta turns it into a magical incantation.
gig- their crucifix's show a dead Jesus. He is ALIVE! our crosses are empty !
your so called religion is just as flawed, one thing i never understood was the wearing and immortalizing of the cross. for one it is an idol, so whether you have one with or without a dead/dieing Jesus does not matter, you are still in conflict of your so called religious views. Idol warship is a sin, you need only to carry your faith in your hearts not wear it on your sleeves to be used as a status symbol! Besides why would you want to glorify one of the instruments of his death?
Good point freedom!crucifixtion was reserved for insurgents against Rome anyway
Someone said to me once that the ones that go into a feeding frenzy on here every time there is an article about the Catholic Church are usually Christians and not people of a completely different faith, or atheists as I had thought. It's appearing to be true. And Bald guy, for once I am in agreement with you. This holier than thou Christians are worse!
Should His "Holiness" have skeletons in the closet??? As the "representive of Jesus Christ on earth, shoulden't he have an open book life? All of these dudes are human and subject to greed and power; even the butler is getting noteriety and will no douibt write a book. Religious professionals are what is driving people away from the truth of God!
I wonder if the butler saw the pope with a few babes - to cleanse them of their sins, no doubt...
More likely the butler saw him with underage boys. The pope does not want to be accused of violating the scripture about "sparing the rod".
Oh come on. He's an old man.
Investigate the Pope and the Vatican. Then arrest the pope and free the butler.
Wait. You forget. This old goat is the head of state of a "country."
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Of course, he's not alone. We have Israel, a Jewish "state." And then there's Iran. A Muslim "state" among several, and headed by some bearded old goof. So really, the Christians aren't so far off. And certainly not alone.
please don't intermix "catholic" and "christian". they are NOT the same thing.
They are both horrible in their own ways...
Sounds more like a military intelligence operation than a church.
What happens at The Vatican stays at The Vatican. Number one rule of thumb.
How come the media doesn't put the Jewish faith, or Israel under this kind of scrutiny?
Are you kidding?
Can you please post a photo of the rock under which you have been hiding all these years?
BigBaldGuy Thanks for saying that! I was just going to ask a very similar question about said rock.
Show me the photos of all the anti-Jewish religion stories. You both reacted so strongly you must be Jewish. It hurts doesn't it?
Hi guys,
I'm sorry, its just painful sitting down here and reading all this tripe and nonsense about the Pope and the Catholic Church from people who clearly DON'T have a clue about what the Church is, who is the Pope etc. May I humbly suggest that if you want to criticize the Catholic Church from a position of KNOWLEDGE and not based on hearsay and media sensation, you take a short visit to www.catholic.com and I assure you that you will have many 'aha' moments. Bishop Fulton Sheen once famously said that "there are not more than 100 people that hate the Catholic Church, but there are millions of people around the world who hate what they believe to be the Catholic Church." May I again humbly suggest that if you truly desire to understand the church from the Church's perspective and not what outsiders say they understand the Church to be, then check the above website. God Bless.
28 years in that "religion" --- read the info about the catholics at sites not sponsored by them!!! then you can learn the truths.
And thank you for being the apologist and spokesman for the corporation.
Sorry, but I am sure more than a 100 people 'hate' the church', not that 'hate' is even an appropriate word here.
When priests are molesting children and the church knows about it and covers it up, the line has been crossed.
They can back peddle all they want, but facts remain.
Forgive them? Easy.
Forget those deeds? Harder.
Sean: You mean the same church that aided and abetted Nazi criminals, allowing them to escape justice.
They did this for how many pieces of silver?
Guilty as charged!
OK, I want to understand the Catholic church. Explain why the Pope as "vicar of Christ" needs a butler? Do you contend Christ had 12 of them?
Why does this vicar need such wealth and opulence.........shouldn't he be living in poverty as Christ taught and distributing all of that money to the poor?
Why does this vicar not severely reprimand and remove all of the child molesters from religious service?
There is a lot I don't seem to understand
Food for thought....I'm pretty sure there's more than 100 Muslims who HATE the Catholic church.
With that in mind, wouldn't the Church need secret operations to try to protect itself from such hatred?
Turn the other cheek!
If you lead a good life you have nothing to hide. TURDS.
Can't believe this guy is still alive. Crossing the Vatican was a death sentence a few years ago.
The bible clearly states, she shall be exposed in the latter days...