I don't think Syrian forces are trying to rile a NATO member. The al-qaeda backed rebels are instigating.

But the pro-Assad forces could have planned on people thinking that! So I CLEARLY cannot choose the wine in front of me!

syrian army shot down a turkish plane a few weeks ago so they are not beyond attacking a border town

LOL yeahbuhwha?... Was the reference to The Princess Bride intentional?

Nice reference Yeahbuhwha

They were both poisoned. I spent the last few years building up an immunity to iocane powder

I suspect that the mortar fire came at the direction of the Obama administration who is funding and otherwise directing the rebels.

That turkish fighter jet was flying over Syrian airspace.

The Free Syria Army has been operating from Southern Turkey. Turkey is harboring Syrian dissidents. Don't get me wrong- the current Syrian gov't. is bloody and criminal, but Turkey didn't just get involved today in this.

First off the Syrian Air Force has already shot down a Turkish jet so its feasible that they would bomb targets inside Turkey. Secondly, why assume Assad controls every aspect of the military and that the military didn't just do this on their own. Realistically it could have easily been the rebels anyway and this tactic was used by rebels in Cuba when they blew up the USS Maine, and we blamed Spain and the Spanish-American war began.

Lets not forget that more than once Syrian Troops fired into Turkey at the refugees as they retreated into Turkey last year. Right now anything is possible.

Yeahhhh, smell something rottennn !

Why is it acceptable for turkey to respond to an attack but not israel? Double standard, much?

brent guthrie

I don't think Syrian forces are trying to rile a NATO member. The al-qaeda backed rebels are instigating.

Oh horsecrap. The Syrians are doing exactly what a country with cross-border rebels does...fire across the border to intimidate the rebels, hoping the situation won't escalate. The problem with that strategy is they are dealing with Turks...nuff said.

Exactly what I was thinking....Different rules for different people?????what are the rules of engagement over there?

IWonder-932455

Why is it acceptable for turkey to respond to an attack but not israel? Double standard, much?

1. I don't think I've ever seen a nation that consistently responds to an attack more than Israel.

2. And yes, you will see a double standard in this situation. The Syrians attacked a NATO Nation. An attack on any NATO Nation is an attack on all NATO Nations. The Syrians either back off and apologize or in my humble opinion they can start by kissing their air defense goodbye. Then communications and command and control.

Well ol_doc, split those hairs. Isn't it far more likely that the hair splitters just hate jews?

I wonder:

You hit the nail on the head.

Ol' doc - Your double standard is specious and offensive, not to mention downright bigoted.

Ol_Doc,

What's the matter Ol_Doc you cannot believe that President Obama and SOS Clinton would f**k up again by supporting the Rebels (aka Islamic Jihadists, in this case Fundamentalist Islamic Al Quada Syria plus the Fundamentalist Islamic Kurdistanis PKK, HPG, KGK) to Overthrow another Established Government. You are worse than the Islamic Jihadists you will defend the Actions or Inactions of President Obama Wrong or Right to your Death.

Anyone with any knowledge and experience with Asymmetric Warfare would know that you provoke another Nation to defeat your enemy. Like the Viet Cong, lob a few mortar rounds from a friendly Vietnamese Village, so that the US will come in and bomb the crap out of the friendly Vietnamese Village.

Facts (Causative Timeline):

Libya was a Former US Ally that to get the previous President Bush Trade Embargoes and Sanctions lifted to ship Libyan Oil to the US European Allies: Collaborated with the CIA. Had his Libyan Military actively go after the Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadists. Implemented his Green Book Contract of Human Rights and Civil Rights for the Libyan Citizens (as praised by the UN and UA (African Union)). Stopped his pursuit of Nuclear Power. Stopped his pursuit of WMDs (including turning over this Chemical Weapons to the US). US Guantanamo Islamic Jihadist Prisoners transferred to President Gaddaffi's Prisons, especially after President Obama's Promised closure of Guantanamo.

Life at Libya under President Gaddaffi for Libyan Citizens (not the non Libyan Citizen, Foreign Workers), his Green Book Contract to the Libyan Citizens:

Loans to Libyan citizens were given with *NO interest*.

Students would get paid the average salary for the profession they are studying for.

If you’d be unable to get the employment the state would pay the full salary as if you were employed.

When you got married the couple got an apartment or house for free.

You could go to college anywhere in the world. The state paid 2,500 euros plus for accommodation and a car.

The cars were sold at factory cost.

Libya does not owe money, (not a cent) to anyone. No credits. Now they owe everyone.

Free education and health care. Gone.

25% of population with a university degree. Many Fled as previous President Gaddaffi supporters (since his Government paid for their Education).

No beggars on the streets and no homeless (until after Gaddaffi Overthrown).

Bread costs $0.15.

Gasoline costs $0.33 per liter before the Civil War, during the Civil War $0.66 per liter; now unavailable.

Almost Zero Unemployment.

The above makes US Ally President Gaddaffi a Collaborator to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers; a Death Penalty, as insisted upon by the Fundamentalist Islamic Arab League of Nations.

President Gaddaffi is screaming at the US And US Allies that the Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadist of Al Quada Saudi Arabia (AQ), Al Quada Islamic Maghreb (AQIM), Al Quada Syria (AQS), Al Quada Yemen (AQY), Hezbollah, Al Quada Arabian Peninsula (AQAP), the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG), etc. are at Libya starting a Civil War at Benghazi to seize the weapons ammunition etc. at the 60 bunker Hight Razma facility on the eastern outskirts of Benghazi and a 35 bunker facility on the eastern outskirts of Ajdabiyah. President Obama ignores President Gaddaffi, just like he ignored US Ally Egypt, US Ally Iraq, US Ally Israel, US Ally Pakistan, US Ally Yemen, US Ally Saudi Arabia, US Ally Afghanistan, etc. about the increased covert actions of the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran, as this was against President Obama's March 2009 Iran Policy (Appeasement, instead of the Ayatollahs of Iran being appeased they increased their Overt and Covert Actions to Overthrow the US and US Allies; as the Ayatollahs of Iran believed President Obama was negotiating from a position of Defeat.).

Instead of listening to the US Allies, President Obama starts saying "Dictator Killing His Own People" (a bunch of Islamic Foreign Fighters). I keep telling all of you ANYTIME someone starts saying "His own people" Go research who the "His Own People" really are.

After President Obama lost the Iraqis Oil to the Allies of the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran, the Chinese and Russian Federation, the Libyan Oil is of Strategic Importance to the US European Allies (except Germany that gets theirs from the Russian Federation and the French).

President Gaddaffi, January, states his Libyan Oil Nationalization. This pisses off the European Oil Corporations of Italy (Eni), Britain (BP), France (Total, Elf), Norway (Straoil), Austria (OMV), etc.. At the "G" Meeting attended by SOS Clinton they demand that their Militarises Overthrow President Gaddaffi to stop his Libyan Oil Nationalization that would take all control of the Libyan Oil away from them. In anticipation of their Nations (plus the US) Military Actions the European Oil Corporations withdraw their European Oil Corporation Personnel from Libya February.

As US Military Commander In Chief President Obama Orders the US Military Cruise Missile Attacks and Airstrikes at Libya in direct violation of US Law that Restricts his Presidential War Powers, 1973 War Powers Resolution (Act). US Congress (Both Houses) is Not given the Mandatory 48 hours notification, so that US Congress can write a US Law with Appropriations to cover his arse; like they did for President Clinton' s US Law H.R. 4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" with US Congressional Appropriations which became US Military Operation Iraqis Freedom; and President Bush's US Law, 2002 Iraqi War Resolution with US Congressional Appropriations. Because there are no US Congressional Appropriations President Obama breaks his Campaign Promise (verbal contract) and must use not previously Budgeted for "Discretionary Spending", including US Taxpayers paying for the Fuel, Bombs, etc. for the US European Allies.

US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces attached to the CIA's SAD/SOG are sent in to do the Targeting and Target Damage Assessments and provide Security to the CIA as the First US Military "Boots on the Ground", that also conduct the Rescue of Downed US and NATO Pilots, and train and lead the Libyan Rebels. This is necessary to prevent unnecessary Libyan Civilian Casualties.

After President Gaddaffi is defeated, US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces attached to the CIA's SAD/SOG assist in the locating and capture of President Gaddaffi.

The "Libyan Rebels" as the Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadist of Al Quada Saudi Arabia (AQ), Al Quada Islamic Maghreb (AQIM), Al Quada Syria (AQS), Al Quada Yemen (AQY), Hezbollah, Al Quada Arabian Peninsula (AQAP), the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG), etc. gain control of Libya. Their First Action is to release President Obama's Islamic Jihadist Guantanamo Prisoners from President Gaddaffi's Prisons. They also seized 20,000 portable shoulder launched SA-7 anti aircraft missiles to be used to shoot down US Commercial (Civilian) Airlines as their stated goal to "Cripple the US Economy" after their other failed attempts (underware bomber, shoe bomber, laser toner cartridge bombs, etc.).

The Libyan Islamic Fighting Group that were the Libyan Foreign Fighters hunted by US Ally President Gaddaffi, were those that were killing US Military at Iraq, become the New Government of Libya.

The combined Islamic Jihadists still at Libya rename themselves Ansar Al Sharia. Just like previously after October 2001, the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban, Fundamentalist Islamic Al Quada, Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadists at the the Afghan Training Camps; after escaping us at Afghanistan via the Old Silk Road to Northern Iraq combined with the Fundamentalist Islamic Kurdistanis and the other Islamic Jihadists from Worldwide renamed themselves Ansar Al Islam.

The Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran has their Ally, Islamic Nation of Qatar, negotiate with the Libyan Government for the Ally of the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran, the Chinese, to get the Libyan Oil. Further negotiations are accomplished for the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran to get Mediterranean Ports at Libya for themselves or their Allies the Chinese and the Russian Federation. Libya becomes the next location key to provide closer logistics for Islamic Jihadists to other African Nations just like Egypt was critical to get Libya.

And Ol_Doc, PROVE that the Syrian Government shot down the Turkish Aircraft, as the Syrian Rebels are claiming to have shot down Syrian Aircraft. And PROVE that the Syrian Rebels did not do a shoot and scoot Mortar attack like the Viet Cong used to do.

It's a beautiful thing to see an 8 year old Australian Muslim girl's wishes come true. I wonder if Muslim children in America dream of such death and destruction taught by this religion of peace?

Turkey can't stay out of it if the Syrian government is bombing them!

people donnnnn no nuthing except whut people like yu and thaa media TRY TO GFEED THEM FULL of!!!

You really believe the Syrian government is trying to rile up a NATO member country?

Fool.

Turkey just wants to commit more genocide on Kurds and Alawites.

@ brent guthrie-why not dude? Both Syria and it's ally Iran have shown that they have no problem pissing off anyone in the world, ESPECIALLY not NATO and/or UN members. Iran repeatedly spits in the face of civilized nations, and Syria is bent on destroying all their neighbors who don't agree with them. This is exactly the type of thing the Syrian government would do. As my grand pappy used to say: Don't be surprised at the insane things that a government which allows it's citizens to suffer, starve, and die will do.

Gary Clark: Actually, Iraq & Iran have more Kurds in them than Syria. Kurdish pop in Syria 9-12% .

out of the woods

Turkey needs to stay out of this. People know that Turkeys real interest in entering Syria is to smash Kurdish rebels.

And who's going to stop them? Not the US or Western Europe...we're all NATO. The Russians will yell and do their angry bear dance, but won't screw with NATO. China definitely won't screw with NATO Nations, that's 85% of their customer base. Syria is screwed unless they back off and apologize most ricky-tick.

Turkey can stay out of it, and should have stayed out of it. They have been harboring refugees, but also rebel fighters. Why else would Syria be shelling them ? They aren't doing it for fun, the rebels strike, and run to Turkey to re-arm and rest before rejoining the fight.

Turkey has a bad reputation for Kurdish oppression, this may just be a reason to enter Syria to attack Kurds. I don't trust them any more than I do Iran, or the Al Qaeda, Taliban backed rebel fighters.

The tactic of using a sympathetic country for shielding is a Muslim tactic that has been used all to much. I don't buy it !

Turkey has committed a lot of genocide on Christians, Jews, Armenians, Kurds, and the list of their fairly recent atrocities is mind numbing. Have no doubt, Islamic radicalism is alive, and well in Turkey !

Turkey struck back? Good for them! Turkey is the only secular muslim nation, more power to them.

out of the woods

Turkey can stay out of it, and should have stayed out of it. They have been harboring refugees, but also rebel fighters. Why else would Syria be shelling them ? They aren't doing it for fun, the rebels strike, and run to Turkey to re-arm and rest before rejoining the fight.

Turkey has a bad reputation for Kurdish oppression, this may just be a reason to enter Syria to attack Kurds. I don't trust them any more than I do Iran, or the Al Qaeda, Taliban backed rebel fighters.

The tactic of using a sympathetic country for shielding is a Muslim tactic that has been used all to much. I don't buy it !

Turkey has committed a lot of genocide on Christians, Jews, Armenians, Kurds, and the list of their fairly recent atrocities is mind numbing. Have no doubt, Islamic radicalism is alive, and well in Turkey !

All very passionate arguments...and they all mean less than nothing. Turkey is a NATO Country...end of discussion.

gary - can we not talk about Kurds? I'll be forever saddened by their mention - after Bush 1 cut and ran, leaving the Kurds in limbo - although they helped the US and were promised help. Saddam gassed them, maybe 20,000 - after the US deserted them.

Davutoglu earlier had contacted Rasmussen, who has said repeatedly that NATO has no intention of intervening in Syria but stood ready to defend NATO member Turkey, if necessary.

Yep, good ol NATO. Expect nothing to happen in the way of retaliation.

Still waiting on a response (NATO or otherwise) to the embassy attacks in the ME and N. Africa.

Scar-481986

Gary Clark: Actually, Iraq & Iran have more Kurds in them than Syria. Kurdish pop in Syria 9-12% .

Those Kurds in Turkey are at the very bottom of everything there. They have zero rights, no chance of becoming a policeman, a mayor, and certainly have no representation in Turkish government. The women get raped and kidnapped for the sex trade, and the men can do nothing for fear of retaliation.

Yes, they are about 12%, but you wouldn't want to be one of them.

Ol_Doc

All very passionate arguments...and they all mean less than nothing. Turkey is a NATO Country...end of discussion.

Turkey is full of radical Islamists, and should be kicked out of NATO. We nearly did not admit them, I don't think we should have. Support for the Taliban, and Al Qaeda comes from Turkey too.

Once again those that have never been to that area don't know crapola.

Ever since the Iran Iraq Wars the Fundamentalist Islamic Kurdistanis have been the Armed Ally of the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran.

During the Iran Iraq Wars, the US Ally Iraq used Chemical Weapons against the Iranians and Kurdistanis; as US Ally Iraq was losing the Iran Iraq Wars. This ended the Iran Iraq Wars. And the US Military Training Teams attached to the CIA's SAD/SOG to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars got to go back to US Military Installations at Germany.

Since the US Politicians had their heads up their rear ends they grouped the actual Iraqis Sunnis (Arabs, Arabic, moderate and liberal as moderate can be as allowed by Islamic Laws), Fundamentalist Islamic Shia (mostly from Iran as cheap labor that fled the massive unemployment at Iran after the Fall of the Shah as Illegal Aliens demanding rights at Iraq, Persian, Farsi), Fundamentalist Islamic Kurdistanis (Indo Europeans, Farsi) into one Group, Iraqis. And continually, backstabbed US Ally Sunnis Iraq, including "Dictator Killing His Own People" (that were actually Shia Islamic Jihadist Foreign Fighters).

The Syrians, the Iraqis, the US Ally Turkey, even the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran do NOT want the Fundamentalist Islamic Kurdistanis forming their own Nation from part of Syria, southern Turkey, most of northern Iraq, and northwestern Iran.

After chasing the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban, Fundamentalist Islamic Al Quada, Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadists at the Training Camps at Afghanistan to the Old Silk Road they went to Northern Iraq and were given Fundamentalist Islamic Sanctuary by the Fundamentalist Islamic Kurdistanis. Combined together with the other Worldwide Islamic Jihadists that flooded into that area, they became Ansar Al Islam.

During Operation Viking Hammer, we went into this area, lived with the Non Fundamentalist Islamic Kurdistanis and after extensive vetting got the Non Fundamentalist Islamic Kurdistanis to help us fight the Fundamentalist Islamic Ansar Al Islam. The Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran gives Ansar Al Islam Fundamentalist Islamic Sanctuary before we can eliminate them, most return back to Afghanistan and Pakistan. Afghanistan being a UN Mission Nation Building puts gentleman British General McColl in Command, all previous gains at Afghanistan are lost. Most of the Kurdistanis we lived with, trained and lead eventually become part of the US Ally Turkey Military to fight the Fundamentalist Islamic Kurdistanis PKK, HPG, KGK.

Of course it is the U.S. funded foriegn rebels. The Syrian Govt has nothing to gain. Syria is the steppingstone to Iran.

The U.S goverment is the creator of the civil war in Syria, and additionally pushes other countries for the conflict. Syria is the last country before Iran will be attact. The USA is going to destroy our lives by attaking every country with oil and not loyal goverment. Turkish goverment is very loyal to the USA!

Turkish people should stand up for own country. Turkey will be destroy too and I hope that the Loyal turkish goverment will get the punishment for seling the own country.

Barbara,

From what I've read and I've tried to keep on top of it, it was a street vendor in Tunisia that lit himself on fire that started the entire Spring. As for Syria, I clearly remember peaceful protests that the Syrian government was using force to suppress.

How is the U.S. government responsible for these two events?

How the protesters in Libia and in Syria having so much weapon? Who is orgenizing those uprisings?

Ever think that ticking off NATO might be a option for Syria to survive with Assad??

What If Assad thinks he's losing on his own resources? How do you get Russia & China to ante in???

If Nato reacts , the Russia & China have to do a move .........And there is a large Russian base in Syria.

Um Barbara Syria has no oil. Neither Russia nor China, especially China will go to war over Syria given the fact neither has the capability to get enough firepower there ro compete with what we have there already.

Another excuse for atack Syria

earthycat 777

Not ....Vote Bam Bam Obama to set things right , The East is Affraid of Him

As opposed to "wildman Romney"? Ya...ok. The East (whoever they are) would simply offer him a favorable business opportunity to part out Yellowstone Park and he'd cut a deal.

Scar-481986

Ever think that ticking off NATO might be a option for Syria to survive with Assad??

What If Assad thinks he's losing on his own resources? How do you get Russia & China to ante in???

If Nato reacts , the Russia & China have to do a move .........And there is a large Russian base in Syria.

You're kidding right? Russia is going to take on NATO? ...roflmao / China is going to take on NATO...and loose 85% of their customer base...for Assad...holy crap man, what are you thinking? If NATO were to get directly involved (The Turks don't really need the support but let's say they do get involved), all they would have to do is avoid hitting the Russian base. If they did hit the base they'd have to apologize for the loss of Russian lives but nothing would change.

Actually Doc, China is going to test us very soon in the pacific. Thats why the Navy is beefing up it's resources there. And I guess, you missed China's little warship trip around the Libyan coast??

Syria , would be a nice excuse for both to pressure NATO to do NOTHING even though a member state is attacked and on a combat status. If that happens, then NATO loses it legitimacy. They win. Like a global poker game with terrible results.

So yes, Russia & China will be forced to make a move.

Russia and Chin a have better things to do with their time and money than to start WWIII.

As long as it's just Syria vs. Turkey, they probably will press UN to do nothing. The rest of the world will be OK with that. Turkey can handle Syria on their own.

However, if Iranian government proves stupid enough to take on Turkey, NATO and USA just might come to aid Turkey, and Russia and China will not come to Iran's rescue.

Russia and China like doing business with Iran, so they occasionally support Iran at the political level, but to go to war against the Western world for Iran, that's just way too much to ask.

Tiggle - From what I've read and I've tried to keep on top of it, it was a street vendor in Tunisia that lit himself on fire that started the entire Spring.

Uh, huh. Sure (Extreme sarcasm).

In the region of the Fundamentalist Islamic Autonomous Kurdistanis Region, the Islamic Jihadists were training, armed, funded by the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran's Asymmetric Warfare Forces, Quds, to Overthrow the US Allies Established Governments. Some of those there were the Fundamentalist Islamic Muslim Brotherhood, Fundamentalist Islamic Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, Fundamentalist Islamic Al Quada International Franchises, Fundamentalist Islamic Al Sheebah, Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban, Fundamentalist Islamic Pakistanis Taliban, Fundamentalist Islamic Hamas Foreign Fighters, Fundamentalist Islamic Chenhen Foreign Fighters, etc. (longer list of US Department of State) as fully funded by the Trillions USDs per year by the Mandatory Islamic Tithes funnelled thru "Non Established Financial Institutions" mostly the Imams at the Mosques Worldwide.

The US Ally Turkey screws up and attacks the Fundamentalist Islamic Autonomous Kurdistanis Region believing that they are only attacking the Fundamentalist Islamic Kurdistanis PKK, HPG, KGK. The above list go back to their Nations of Origin to start Civil Wars to Overthrow US Allies as trained by the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran's Special Forces, Quds.

US Ally Egypt, former US Ally Libya, US Ally Yemen, US Ally Pakistan, US Ally Somalia, Syria, US Ally Israel, US Ally Iraq, etc. all start to report increased Islamic Jihadist Activities. President Obama and SOS Clinton ignore this.

US Ally Israel starts the Blockades to stop the "Peace Flotillas" that are actually full of Fundamentalist Islamic Hamas Foreign Fighters fleeing the Fundamentalist Islamic Autonomous Kurdistanis Region. So the Israelis Civilian Law Enforcement Customs Agents get their arses kicked by Islamic Jihadists trained in hand to hand combat and improvised weapons.

Part of Asymmetric Warfare is to get the people of that Nation to fight for your Cause(s) for perceived injustices.

There is your "Arab Spring" aka Overthrow of US Allies Established Governments.

It has been the Longtime Strategic Goal of the Chinese and Russian Federation to get the US and US Allies out of their Backyards (Resources). With the Chinese and Russian Federation using the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran as their "Proxy Fighter". And the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran using the Islamic Jihadists Worldwide as their "Proxy Fighters". And no they will not allow the US and US Allies a "Do Over", as they are currently building up their Militarises to protect all their Gains from the US And US Allies Losses.

@David 45whatever....you've been reading too much Tom Clancy.

@Barbara 606whatever....I think you need to learn to read Tom Clancy

They are harboring Syrian rebels. Turkey should kick out the "refugees", the rebels are among their ranks.

News flash: Turkey has bombed Syria according to the Turkish news casts right now.

peggytoz i beg to differ with you on that. Libya attacked our country and obummmma did nothing at all. 4 American citizens were killed on our own soil, and he simpily lied and said hmmmm that darn movie sure made us Muslims mad. The Muslim brotherhood and their leader obummmmmma do as they please with no one holding them accountable. Romney is not the answer either, but i feel is much more the lesser of 2 evils we have to vote for. Sad America has come down to voting for the person to do the least damage, instead of who can lead us ahead.

tb, Libya did nothing. Some @!$%#s in Libya did. This is how wars get started, with idiots like you claiming a few hundred people = the entire nation. Now if those that attacked were part of the Libyan army or whatever they have there you would have a point but that is not what happened.

I am more worried about what Romney's associates will do rather than what happens on the International stage to be honest. Romney may not be a religious fanatic hell-bent on forcing us closer to a theocracy but many on his side of the isle see no issue with forcing Biblical doctrine into our laws and thus annulling part of the First Amendment.

If Romney had coalesced moderates around him instead of crazy asses like Santorum I may have voted for him. If he had forced his party to drop the religious overtones from their party platform in regards to making Gay marriage illegal as a starting point I may have voted for him. I will never vote for anyone or anyone in a party that wants to go back to the time of King George where religion had more power over a country than it should have. That was one of the reasons the Pilgrims fled from Britain, to escape the oppressive atmosphere the Church was creating.

tb10196 - You're an idiot...have a nice day.

When the Muslims take over America, after B. Hussein Obama lets them in the back door, you will be praying for the Christian God to intervene. It is just around the corner if something doesn't change.

Simple. Point guns at them and tell them to get out.

Hell, a lot of the "refugees" are actually foreign fighters who have come to invoke the Muslim Brotherhood sharia law based society on the good people of Syria.

Yep, WW III, the realy big one, here we go.

The US can't afford a WW3 - other than from afar with NATO as the front man. If this will be WW3, it'll be a short one.

Happy -

One might take the opposite opinion, that WW3 would be a BOON to the United States.

First, it would not be a "boots on the ground" war, thus sparing our troops. Second, it spurs the economy for replenishment of arms. Third, we get rid of (worst case) a nation or two that we send aid to, saving us money and, (worst case), we get rid of a country to whom WE owe money.

In fact, one MIGHT argue that a war in the region, which would certainly expand, would result in the closure or truncation of the Persian Gulf. We, in turn (if it got bad enough) would use our reserves, cancel our exports of oil in favor of domestic consumption, and proceed, full throttle with domestic oil production (yes, off shore and Alaska).

So, Happy - we cant "afford" it ? When has THAT stopped our government ?

Guns vs Butter, the old econ saw - we've already overdosed on guns, need more butter. There is no enthusiasm for more ME warring. At least Japan and Germany benefited from a post war rebuild- the ME has nothing to show for it because THEIR citizens continue to "blow stuff up". For example, how many times has Lebanon been rebuilt? Every 20 years, they have to start over. Iraq will be wallowing in their tribal warfare as soon as the Army "helpers" leave, same for the 'stans. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the Saudi theocracy (spawned Osama) continues - for now. What an exercise in futility.
People want the money to stay home. Haliburton and Blackwater can suck an egg. China has no skin in the Turkey/Syria game, and that is no help to us either.

You sound like an idiot Laugh.

Chew and moonshine ?

So you're an idiot AND a Yankee.

The perfect marriage.

How do I sound like an idiot?? I'm just quick to dig in on these one sided cult lunatics that try and make everything political and bash Obama or Romney for that matter. When someone says something I help magnify the ridiculous message of a person with a messed up mental. Soo Whats up?? lol Jeenyus??

Laugh

You must be laughing at yourself a lot apparently. It's Obama and Clinton's job right now to protect our Embassies. Who else is to blame when security is grossly lacking and results in the deaths of Americans? Instead of apologizing to the families of murdered Americans, Obama makes up a story about a video that had 300 views, apologizes for insulting the murderers, and ensures the guy who made the video went to prison. Hopefully your life is never in Obama's hands or you may be the next "bump in the road."

Thank you steve for that very clear description of the seriously fumbled ball two weeks ago. And now the attack on border agents in this country yesterday. And there's really no fall out, i'm confused? I guess two bumps in the road. And tonight the big debate. There's lots of room for subject matter if you ask me!!

Steve-367582 & Jeenyus-3915928

LOLZ.......Look you "dumifyed" bumpkins....Open a book.....educate yourselves.......You do know the best colleges, for scholastics, are in Yankee land?......Go figure...

Notice how Obama's base has no facts or substance to argue with anymore. It's all blaming and name-calling, just like they've been taught. It's hard to win a battle when you're shooting blanks.

Congrats, PeterDean!

Back when Reagan ordered the marines into Lebanon and we lost what, 252 good men, were you or t.hose who raised you slamming the President for that dismal adventure or is it just when Democrats are in charge. So when we lose good men at the borders and at embassies. such as Kenya and Tanzania [ I hope those were the two that got hit on W's watch ] it's a total failure on the Presidents part and not all those people in authority of the embassy or border; or just maybe, every possible type of attack by committed bad guys can't be eliminated in advance. I'm not here to defend Obama but dumping every bad event on his doorstep [or crediting him for every good turn ] just seems absurdly partisan.

beaumontdave

Absolutely that was a bad move on Reagan's part. I also think the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were bad moves on Bush's part. Precision drone strikes could've done more in Iraq than anything we did.

The only part that irritates me about the Benghazi situation is that we did not give security to an ambassador after repeated requests or come to his defense in any way after his murder.

I was impressed with Bill Clinton's response after the USS Cole bombing, even though he did not initiate military action. His statements in the press did justice to those killed. He did not make excuses for us and spew lies about the situation. He represented American outrage at a terrorist attack.

such as Kenya and Tanzania [ I hope those were the two that got hit on W's watch ]

Those were actually on Clinton's watch.

Steve: Lets teleport you back in time to the late 1960's. Your , for political reasons, opposing protestors who think the Vietnam war is wrong. Which is ok to do. So to prove your commitment you do which of these two things.

1. Enlist in a armed service of your choice

2. Go to France and work for your church.

Now Teddy Roosevelt might encourage a war action. But he would go to one as well. Neither of them are Teddy Roosevelt's.

Your choice, chose option 2

Steve... Good god man pull your head out of your a$$ and get a breath of fresh air. You claim that Obama supporters can't cite any facts, but then you post the this quote shown below. Petty insults is the language of choice for the Republican party so forgive the man for trying to communicate in a way you would understand.

It's Obama and Clinton's job right now to protect our Embassies. Who else is to blame when security is grossly lacking and results in the deaths of Americans? Instead of apologizing to the families of murdered Americans, Obama makes up a story about a video that had 300 views, apologizes for insulting the murderers, and ensures the guy who made the video went to prison. Hopefully your life is never in Obama's hands or you may be the next "bump in the road."

Probably the host country as it is their duty to provide protection to foreign embassies under international law. Obama made up a story about a video with only 300 views?

The 14 minute video clips were initially uploaded to YouTube in July 2012, under the titles The Real Life of Muhammad and Muhammad Movie Trailer.^[5] Videos dubbed in the Arabic language were uploaded during early September 2012,^[6] and were promoted by Morris Sadek by email and on the blog of the National American Coptic Assembly.^[7] On September 9, 2012, an excerpt of the YouTube video was broadcast on Al-Nas TV, an Egyptian Islamist television station

I guess President Obama has a time machine that we don't know about and went back in time to make his "made up story" legitimate.

You say that President Obama had the man arrested for free speech? How dense are you. The guy violated his probation by making and uploading the video and as a result of violating his probation is going back to jail. Did you know that you can lose some of your constitutional rights as a result of being found guilty of breaking certain laws? Does freedom of speech apply to the internet? If you ask a Republican more than likely they will tell you no.

Notice how Obama's base has no facts or substance to argue with anymore.

Please do provide some facts of your own next time you make a statement like that. You, like the Republican party, need to learn the definition of fact.

DONT you know, Steve..that it's (still) Bush's fault ?

And..ZIM ?

SURELY you jest ?

ANY president who puts the safety of our embassies in the hands of the host country, since 1979, is a Kentucky fried IDIOT...ESPECIALLY in the Middle East. The ONLY country in the region who does not hate the U.S., is Israel.

Naw Jeff, that was no joke. That is why several countries could deny our request to allow us to send re-inforcements to our embassies even after the attack. We could say "F* you, we are the U.S. and do as we please," but then again that is the very reason we are hated so much.

Turkey and Iran share a very small boarder.

Why do you keep spelling border wrong?

troy, ... don get yur ruffles in a wrinkle now then.

So sorry to offend you with a spelling mistake. Feel Better?

lol. Evidently I'm not the only ruffled wrinkle. After reading more of these posts quite a bit of people commented. Sorry, just saw it about five times.

Turkey and Iran do share a border, though Iran and Syria are separated by Iraq.

Oh Kristy. When is the last time you were out in the world my dear ? Things have changed.

If you want little children to stay alive and well, then stop provoking a fight in the region. Stop training terrorists and stop providing them with money and weapons.

Oh yeah, almost forgot -- the whole world should be ashamed of themselves!!!!!!!

Your commenting on other people, but haven't said anything that has relevance to a particular subject.

Why Jeenyus?? lol You can't bully me, what are your thoughts Mr or Mrs blogging critic?? lol

Oh I see Kristy555 everyone else should risk their lives but not you.

the whole world should be ashamed of ourselves anyway for the poor stewardship we give our Lord for his bounty & provisions!!!

Those were Libyan nationals who were outraged with being provided used pinball machine parts instead of the plutonium-containing weapons they desired.

Turks are genocidal war criminals.

All of them? Funny I am 55 and I dont even recall Turkey being in a war.

Here we go with the Armenian genocide history lesson again - maybe a 100 years this year? Sigh.
Ok, I looked, 1915. Can someone just do a 200 year world wide timeline and be done with it? Not only has every continent had some sort of genocide in that time frame - history keeps repeating itself to where no one really can point the finger of blame without being a hypocrite.

The Turks do have a reputation for kickin' butt and chewing bubblegum, and they are usually all out of bubblegum.

Which is why nobody messes with the Turks...........

Thanks for correcting the spelling Miss Brooks

Simple. It is because there is simply no value added to helping either side. There are no strategic resources and we are certainly not allies with Syria. The Russians, on the other hand, have every reason to back the Syrian regime. Their only large Naval base outside of Russia is located there. The Russians also supply the bulk of the military hardware Syria possesses. China simply doesn't care unless they are making or losing money. So, to save face, US policy is "oh this is terrible...but we can't help everyone. We help where we can." Good enough answer?

1. Syria is a client state of the Russian Federation, one of the few countries that has the capability to threaten the continental US with weapons of mass destruction.

2. We are close to a Presidential election, and the American people are fed up with wars in the Middle East.

3. Syria itself has a military capable of threatening US lives if we invade, not weak like Tunisia or Libya.

4. Syria is an ally of Iran, with whom we are already engaged in a war of words over economic sanctions and access to the Persian Gulf for shipping.

5. The ruling sect of Syria is Shi'ite, the "bad" Muslims, not Sunni, the "good" Muslims who are in the habit of welcoming our advances.

6. Syria is inconveniently located, surrounded by other powder-keg countries like Lebanon, Israel, and Iraq, making intervention a diplomatic nightmare.

Summary: Too bad for the Syrian civilians.

Sunnis are NOT the good Muslims. Remember 9/11, caused by Saudi Sunni Arabs crashing planes into buildings; not Shiite Muslims who want to conquer the world. Take a hint, they are all bad Muslims.

Pamela,

because much of the World no longer sees people as people but only intervenes if there is something to gain for themselves. People like Gary here are disgusting in the fact that they would let entire populations die to something as stupid as a religious preference. Frankly I do not care who hit us on 9/11, what really matters is that civilians are dying and I am not so petty to transpose what 21 people did on to an entire region.

Fact of the matter is that Assad is the bad guy here and if Turkey want's to take him out, if it was really the Syrian military that did this, I applaud them wholeheartedly. Half of the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave is too pussed out to help those in need so someone has to do it.

Very easy Pamela. We cannot support Assad, nor can we support his Al - Queda backed opponents. The best thing for America would be both sides losing, but no matterwhich side wins Syria is not our business. Further, Assad is a known quantity and despite hostile relations with Israel they're not killing each other. When the rebels win, they will start a war with Israel in which we will either get involved or we'll run the risks an outnumbered Israel nukes their enemies and the world economy collapses when access to oil is lost.

All countries are supposed to abide by the UN resolutions, no country should be invaded to topple it's leadership. You can fund rebel support but if the people of the particular country are not fully committed to the revolution then you are going to end up with a mess. Just like Iraq and Afganistan.

Guess which country has broken more UN Resolutions than any other, and it's not the USA.

It's Israel and until they give freedom and Land back to the Palestinians the Wars in the Middle East will never cease.

euro - do you really believe that? I don't, historically speaking.

Gary Clark, you are not going to have any luck trying to convince me to hate a quarter of the world's population because 19 of them committed unspeakable acts 11 years ago, or a few others last month. For one thing, I have hypertension and anger-management problems. I will not REMEMBER 9/11 any more than I will fixate on Pearl Harbor or the Holocaust, because it could kill me. Hatred eats at us from within.

I have enough to worry about that one of the major party presidential candidates is so stupid he thinks the windows on pressurized aircraft should be able to be opened by passengers because his wife was nearly asphyxiated by smoke on a recent flight. I will be looking forward and trying to improve things in the future, rather than wailing about the past and trying to bring the dead back to life.

The Turks, our NATO allies, are mostly Sunni Muslims with a healthy Christian minority. The Saudi royal family are Sunni. Our "wonderful" allies and trade partners, the Pakistanis, are Sunni. Moreover, I sarcastically put "good" and "bad" in quotes for you, to cover exceptions like the one you named. This is America--you are free to hate whomever you choose, but leave me out of it.

A Euro -

so....I guess, since Israel "took the land" in 1967, there was peace before then, right ? There WAS no war in '48 or '56. There WAS no Iran/Iraq war, right ?

And, Jeff (15.5), I'm not so sure you're right. At MOST a war in the region would collapse the region's oil...NOT the world's.

The U.S. and Russia will NOT go to nuclear war over Iran, or Syria..count on THAT; thus, The U.S. will expand domestic oil production, and Russia will quench the thirst of Europe with their reserves. South America and Mexico will ramp up production.

Jeff, do you realize the scenario you describe fits very closely with the Biblical account of Armaggedon? The time is near!

Obama Obama lmao hahahaha we have had eough, learn how to spell your name and slap yourself. lmao hahahahaha

Oh no....' eough'(enough) learn how to spell and slap yourself..... lmao hahahaha!!! Sorry, couldn't resist!

cut and run???...........did you want to see the US involved in another ME conflict? Isn't 10 years of war with no noticeable improvements in Iraq and Afghanistan enough.........eough?

markle,

not in the way that Bush did things, that was excessive and extreme. Obama's model in Libya could easily be employed here and will likely have the same results without a single soldier putting feet on the ground.

Obamas model in Libya? You mean handingthe country over to Al-Queda and having Obama's new friends murder our ambassador who asked for extra military and was denied by Obama? Are you insane?

jeff - puh-lease, letting NATO handle it and keep US soldiers away from the ME and North Africa. It is terrible the ambassador was assassinated by al-quaida like morons - he knew of the unrest, but wanted to be there to help the people of Libya, who he cared about (per his family). Now, most people think the whole region is hopeless - but he tried. Hopefully the perps can be brought to justice - let their leaders try to do it.

we have had eough You mean like reagan after sacrificing those marines with empty rifles in somalia he cut run and did nothing. Oops thats a republican strategy not a democrats.

Tell your congressmen and your president, the hate, division and struggle is what gets them elected. Money, color, race!!! Works everytime!!!

For whom to vote?

Earthcats had to much of something today it sounds like!!! The rabble is deafening. You need a new job, that is if you have one!! Your missing the point, Syria wants its Turkey Smoked!!! And on pita, please!!

Uh, EARTHYCVNT777, so your WARPED logic has it OK that Sunni's kill Shiites, and Shiites kill Sunni's, and BOTH kill Kurds. and NON-MUSLIMS!!! That's your brilliant notion, that I'm a Mormon? You are plenty DUMB, and illogical! You probably also believe we here in the USA are the infidel. Get a grip!

You must be a Black Panther

$5 says EARTHYCAT couldn't spell cat by himself if you spoted him the C and the T. The Mormon religion was less than 35 years old when Christians created the KKK. LOve the fact earthycat carries a gun in her car. The carjacker won't need to bring one.

Earthycat is a racist pig on welfare.

NO Will, Muslims are constantly killing other Muslims, and without any assist from any other foreign government. Your ridiculous notion is just that, RIDICULOUS!

Gotta love how some folks put on a moniker like "joe from main st, usa" and then mangle english syntax while presenting a view most "joes" would never hold.

'

huh.....that is a tin hat theory, evidence, post it

It's clear from your logo that you've already given up on objective thinking.

Somebody in Mexico bombed the United States, what yesterday, and people were killed i believe i heard. So that doesn't raise a concern? What??? I know it was gun fire, but killing is killing. And they weren't Muslims!!! They were drug gangs, it's nice to know we go easy on violent drug gangs. Arizona, New Mexico take it hit for the ol' Red White and Blue!!!

rightwingscrewball

I live in ABQ. It's pathetic that nothing has been done to reduce illegals or combat the cartels.

I for one vote for bringing home all of our troops from ME, eliminate foreign aid to any muslim country, legalize pot to put a dent in cartel profits (a small one, but noticeable) and their supply/demand chain AND USE THE TROOPS TO START CARTEL GENOCIDE

Perfect idea! Now if it could just come true...

Wait that is right, Obama closed Cuba, got us out of the middle east and there is peace abounding in the US!

(Sarcasam intended!)

Obama is better than Bush. More American soldiers killed under him in less than four years than during Bush's term. Looks like Obama upped our troop presence in Afghanistan so his buddies would have an easier time killing us.

BaraK HUSSEIN Obama is a Muslim plant. Americans are naive and stupid.

tiredofthelunacy yes gws strategy was make love to them just look at this lol.

Here,here.

Unfortunately I don't think anyone over there knows the game.