Amanda, if you really read them, you would not have to ask.

You don't read at a very high level of comprehension do you Amanda.

Christians and Jews refute the Quran because of the teachings of Muhammad, many of which are contrary to the will of the Father, Muhammad teaches things such as: it is ok to rape infidel Women because they are all whores anyway (paraphrased but on target), it is ok to steal from infidels, it is ok to have sex with an infidel man if you are imprisoned etc, etc, All these things and many many more are contrary to the will of the Father, Jesus Christ never said anything contrary to the will of the Father.

No, Amanda is here to defend the book of hatred and violence called the Quaran, as usual. I'm sure she'll come up with some excuse to justify this asinine behavior of muslim extremists monsters. Just wait for it...

Amanda did not defend the quaran she only pointed out the bible is as screwed up as the quaran. Niether is worthy of defending as both are books written by bronze-age nomads with no modern education who wanted to subjugate women and control other people's lives. Keep getting your clues to life from these stupid (bible, quaran, torah, etc.) books and you get the intolerant world you desearve. I think we should keep "desecrating" all this religious crap until they get bored of demonstrating and rioting and get on with thier lives. All religions are FALSE!!

And a real sad thing is that they teach this hate and intolerance to their children.. Memorizing it just like your children may have done with the scout motto or common bedtime prayers.. Saw a video of children reciting Islamic verse in front of the Mosques Iman, translated it was Mohammad's teachings on why non Muslims are infidels and the rewards for ridding the land of them.. Islam is a cult of hate and intolerance.. It should be banned as a hate group and stripped of its religious status.. This hypocritical attack for blasphemy is someones way of stirring up violence so the Muslims can kill and destroy anything that is Christian..

@mhender: Rubbish: they reject the Koran because it's a new religious franchise they don't have a hand in. Show me ANY instance of a religion's leaders seeing a new comer and saying "Whoops! Got it wrong! Gotta convert! SHUT IT DOWN.

@Noisynosylib.....finally, a voice of reason among this blog of bible/koran thumpers...excellent post...right on target!

Collapsing Amanda's post............??????

I agree I can't see the reason too. Guess those that did so only talk about freedom of speech and don't practices it much.

I bought a Koran at a garage sale, I keep it in the bathroom and wipe my A with the pages when the charmin runs out. These boys are on the right track.

All of the religious rhetoric aside...

Residents of the village and reporters said a passerby had on Monday seen the children ripping up pages of a copy of the Quran and urinating on it in front of the local mosque...

The passerby took the two boys to the local priest to condemn them for the incident, the residents said, but he was not satisfied with what he viewed as the priest's insufficient reprimand and decided to file a complaint to the police.

...that the children denied the incident and that one of them is illiterate.

...a passerby. One person claiming that two Coptic boys playing outside a mosque pissed on a book. And we (and the residents) should believe that one individual why? Are there any other "witnesses?"

This is way too early to start making assumptions as I just did/pointed out. Maybe the kids did it or maybe the passerby had an agenda. Who knows?

@bonehead_rama

If only Christians in Europe had thought that way 75 years ago there would be six million more Jews in the world.

Adolf Hitler believed Christians were cowards and weaklings that's why millions of them were murdered in WW2. But he did have a secret admiration for ruthless islam that's why the German muslims were under his protection and allowed to join the SS.

And I will trust the credibility of Ayaan Hirsi Ali who suffered FGM under islam, before I believe any muslim apologists.

Muslim Rage & The Last Gasp of Islamic Hate

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/09/16/ayaan-hirsi-ali-on-the-islamists-final-stand.html

Excuse me.

I had absolutely no idea that a simple question asking people to explain why you feel the way you do about either the Bible or the Qu'ran was going to engender such unreasoning responses.

I am neither Christian nor Muslim; I am a practicing Pagan, and from my viewpoint outside the Abrahamic belief systems I don't really see a difference. Jews, Christians, and Muslims all worship the same God (you just differ in what you call Him), Christians and Muslims both acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah and the Son of God, and acknowledge the death and resurrection, the Revelation, and the Last Day/Judgement Day. Abraham is mentioned frequently in both books, Moses is mentioned many MANY times, so isNoah, Lot, Aaron, Joseph, Elias, Elieazar, Ishmael, Adam and Eve, Cain, Abel, jesus, Mary..the list goes on.

mhender said:

Christians and Jews refute the Quran because of the teachings of Muhammad, many of which are contrary to the will of the Father, Muhammad teaches things such as: it is ok to rape infidel Women because they are all whores anyway (paraphrased but on target), it is ok to steal from infidels, it is ok to have sex with an infidel man if you are imprisoned etc, etc,

Could you point me in the direction of the chapters/verses of the Qu'ran in which I can find this? I didn't see it when I read it through, but I may have missed something. Also, the Old Testament, to my viewpoint, isn't really much different--there are plenty of stories in the old testament where the early Jews put to the sword the peoples living in cities in which they took over, and they took as slaves the conquered peoples.

Wisco said;

No, Amanda is here to defend the book of hatred and violence called the Quaran, as usual. I'm sure she'll come up with some excuse to justify this asinine behavior of muslim extremists monsters. Just wait for it...

I'm a witch. I don't, as the saying goes, have a dog in this hunt--all of you, Jews, Christians, Muslims have done your best throughout the ages to wipe out practitioners of my belief system, so to us, you're all equal--the Christians have been, however, the most persistent--there are still parts of the world where some misguided Christians kill Goddess worshippers. I have never had a Jew or a Muslim tell me I was going to hell for worshipping the Goddess--a Christian lady told me that the other day when I stopped a bus for her.

I don't condone, support or sympathize with the extremists. However, I also don't feel its right to castigate all practitioners of a religion for the actions of a few. I don't blame all Christians for the actions of the Catholics during the inquisition, or all Christians by the actions of the Westboro Baptist folks or the misguided ramblings of Harold Camping.

You don't blame all birds because of the one that pooped on your car.

Julie said:

This is way too early to start making assumptions as I just did/pointed out. Maybe the kids did it or maybe the passerby had an agenda. Who knows?

Like the Muslim cleric who was arrested for putting torn copies of the Qu'ran into the bag of the mentally handicapped Christian girl and then accused her of blasphemy, resulting in her being wrongly jailed. Let's wait until all the facts are out and it has been investigated before jumping to conclusions.

Well said Amanda. I actually find your religion fasciniting. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to practice, but what little I've learned is very interesting.

Amanda the Pagan Witch? Nice ring, I bet you are a 10 and can cast some cool spells on some dudes. You write a good case for your beliefs.

Careful, IXLR8, she's a practicing swordsman as well. Or is it swordswoman? Damn PC.

I am a practicing Pagan, and from my viewpoint outside the Abrahamic belief systems I don't really see a difference

So am I. A "Tuatha De' Danann" or, Child of the goddess Danu, in English. Lets see if I can help you out.

I'm a witch. I don't, as the saying goes, have a dog in this hunt

The first link I use in this poem is from a witch or a Wiccan.

sourced here by a Wiccan http://wiccangrove.wordpress.com/2011/01/25/204/

A poet's work is to name the unnameable, to point at frauds, to take sides, start arguments, shape the world, and stop it going to sleep.

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/s/salman_rushdie.html

A poet's work is to name the unnameable,

allah was a rock, and is still, a rock....sourced here by a Wiccan

to point at frauds,

see 'allah' rock........ sourced here by a Hindu

to take sides,

the black stone of the kabba is allah...allah is a rock........sourced here by an Irish pagan

start arguments,

see above

shape the world,

one questioning mind at a time

and stop it going to sleep.

I will come back with some links for you

Could you point me in the direction of the chapters/verses of the Qu'ran in which I can find this? I didn't see it when I read it through, but I may have missed something

At some point in Islamic theocratic concepts it's possible for a non-Muslim woman to become the "property" or "Booty" of the group who took her, if justified by claims of Jihad (2:190)whom your right hand possesses

in a theocratic sense, as explained in (Quran 4;24) as well as (23;5-6) (24;33) and a few others. In the reliance of the traveller (a guide to sharia law) it says

http://www.nku.edu/~kenneyr/Islam/Reliance.html

@O9.13 When a child or a woman is taken captive, they become slaves by the fact of capture, and the woman's previous marriage is immediately annulled

Amanda

Christians and Muslims both acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah and the Son of God

No they don't.

Kpr's stone worshipping thread is one of the most fascinating I've ever seen, it really is quite illuminating.

Kpr's stone worshipping thread is one of the most fascinating I've ever seen,

Thank you, for some reason the link to my article did not work in my post. Here are the three articles I wrote on the subject.

Suspicious minds': in search of "al-Lah" ( the Islamic rock star )

Mohammad: the prophet of "reformed" Arabian paganism

Trilogy of a Lie: Re - 'Submission'

This is just to place this in the contex of the here and now.

At some point in Islamic theocratic concepts it's possible for a non-Muslim woman to become the "property" or "Booty" of the group who took her, if justified by claims of Jihad (2:190)whom your right hand possesses

in a theocratic sense, as explained in (Quran 4;24) as well as (23;5-6) (24;33) and a few others. In the reliance of the traveller (a guide to sharia law) it says

http://www.nku.edu/~kenneyr/Islam/Reliance.html

@O9.13 When a child or a woman is taken captive, they become slaves by the fact of capture, and the woman's previous marriage is immediately annulled

And this is in no way ancient history

This is ongoing in Syria right now. Also look up the Bangladesh genocide and the rape camps set up by Pakistan where an estimated 400,000 women were systematically raped.

There also appears to be a cultural clash between non-Arab Muslims from Pakistan, Afghanistan, the Balkans and Chechnya on the one hand, and Arabs from Syria, Libya, Tunisia and Jordan on the other, over the exploitation of sex slaves.

Some Islamists consider these women to be spoils of war, especially the wives and daughters of regime supporters,

"Booty", sex slaves of the jihadist, who possess them with his "right hand"

but local fighters are more apprehensive about the issue. Dozens of women have reportedly been sexually assaulted.

http://english.al-akhbar.com/node/12796/

And for the jewish people here, let me ask why you people are always being run out of countries. 109 nations have given you the boot, yet it's never your fault, it's always anti semitism or scapegoating When will you wake up and understand that there's something wrong with a people that NO ONE likes.

Seek help, no really dude, I'm not kidding.

I make it a personal point to never say "infidel".

That implies that a person is not trustworthy, and has immediate negative connotations. Non-Muslim is longer to write and say, but I will not be called an infidel.

noiseynosylib ....... awesome comment I take my hat off to you . I feel the same way .

Amanda ....... sweetie being a witch is not a religion , how old are you ?? being wiccan or a druid is . being wiccan is one who basically takes care of the earth and all living creatures . thier first rule is ...HARM NONE............ duridism is more a scientific mixed religion like alcamy (sp) type stuff . looking for cause and effect , chemistry ect. many wicccans are solitary practitioners . covens ( I am sure to get alot of flack on this one LOL) become to political , power hungry and controlling much like a couple of other religions we all know . many dont last and some delve into the black arts which is very dangerous .

how do I know all this well I will tell you since walking away , I mean running away from the catholic church and unable to find a church and I went to many other religios churches I started to study about them researching and it became a hobby for me . and one thing I can say my personal opinion is that all structured religions have one goal and that is power and control over others . creating fear in others to control them . I personally do not believe Jesus or God had this in mind for anyone of us. Man did this . the bible and Koran is a book written by men for men . I am a woman and to them I am nothing a second class citizen who should be submissive to men ROFLMAO to that . because I dont cover all my skin to muslims I am a whore and any man can rape me without getting in trouble and we all know muslim men like this Idea . anyone who is not muslim is a infidel no I am not . it is a way for them to do what thye want to whom they want hell they cannot stop kiling each other for religious differences . I am sure these boys did not do this and if they did they did not understand what they were doing . afterall they are illiterate . just like that little girl who they put in prison for supposivly burning pages of the koran , she is illiterate and has mental issues but then we all found out a muslim cleric ripped pages out of the koran and set her up causeing killings her put in prison and burned down how many homes ???? they need to get rid of this so called law as it is used to hurt innocent people with it . I think mohammad was a psychotic antisocial personality whos love of violence , rape , and pedophilia decided to make it leagal useing religion to do so . child brides are way to common and I cant even think about what they go through on thier wedding night one recently died she was about 10 years old and the husband around 25-30 and he ruptured her uterous OMG that had to be so painfull for her and he did nothing to help her and stated she was sickly and would not please him the way he wanted . these need to grow a thicker skin and learn that all religions are made fun of or cultures ect when they grow up and understand that maybe they will become more civilized . do you see the pictures of all the men and how they act and are so touchy feeley to each other I find that disgusting ...... and they say there is no homosexuality over there .....OK what ever . so enough on this subject and if I miss spelled anything well I am not perfect I am human though .

sweetie being a witch is not a religion

Maybe not to you.

In occult circles he was highly regarded, and was widely acknowledged as the worlds foremost authority on Witchcraft, Satanism and Black Magick. Overtime, many of the days leading Witches, Satanists, Rosicrucian’s, Ceremonial Magicians and other magically inclined people, came from all over England, Europe and the United States to consult with him. As his reputation grew, Old George became just as infamous as Aleister Crowley was in his time. He was also known to have encouraged Satanism, which horrified other Craft Elders who considered him a renegade and a disgrace to the craft.

http://www.controverscial.com/Old%20George%20Pickingill.htm

or look up Garderian witchcraft

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gardnerian_Wicca

Both Neo-pagan movements.

I've made my private apology to Amanda and now make my public apology. My comment was flippant. I'll not try to make up excuses for my reasoning but just state when made I wasn't in the best of moods. Sorry Amanda.

Beth said:

Well said Amanda. I actually find your religion fasciniting. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to practice, but what little I've learned is very interesting.

All belief systems are interesting, insofar as they give one insight into what other people think, by examining what they believe and why.

XLR8 said;

Amanda the Pagan Witch? Nice ring, I bet you are a 10 and can cast some cool spells on some dudes.

A 10? To my husband, and to my girlfriend maybe.

Never EVER cast spells on other people. I have no right to alter the course of someone else's life, to influence someone else in my favor. Love spells, charms and such are a gray area and not one I will ever touch. Affect nothing that lives and goes well on its own way.

Help, heal and protect; these are my responsibilities. My spells are protections on the house, encouraging anyone meaning to break in and cause harm to look elsewhere (we live in a neighborhood with five different gangs and i have only ever had someone try to break in ONCE. I also have spells keeping mice and insects out of the pantry, viruses out of my computer (with a good anti-virus program as a contingency!) helping ghosts and restless spirits move on, helping to heal whatever is wrong with those I touch/talk to.

Justin b said;

Careful, IXLR8, she's a practicing swordsman as well. Or is it swordswoman? Damn PC.

(laughing) 'Martial Arts practitioner' works for the layman. Or, if you want to be specific, Kumooyeh disciplinarian. (one who practices Kumooyeh sword disciplines.) And it is defensive only (unless you're a zombie.) My neighbors swear if there is a zombie apocalypse they will be coming to my house!

out of the woods said;

I make it a personal point to never say "infidel".

Thank you!

kpr said:

allah was a rock, and is still, a rock....sourced here by a Wiccan

AnotherFineMess said:

Kpr's stone worshipping thread is one of the most fascinating I've ever seen, it really is quite illuminating.

As the Qu'ran is based off the Bible (Old Testament and Gospels) Of course Allah/God is a 'Rock'. Moses is one of the Great Prophets mentioned countless times in the Qu'ran, and he called God a 'Rock' in the 'Song Of Moses'.

The Rock, perfect is his activity/For all his ways are justice./A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice;/Righteous and Upright is he. (Deuteronomy 32:4)

When Jeshurun began to grow fat, then he kicked./You have grown fat,you have become thick, you have become gorged./So he forsook God who made him,/And despised the Rock of his salvation (Deuteronomy 32:15)

The Rock who fathered you, you proceeded to forget,/And you began to leave God out of memory, the One bringing you forth with childbirth pains (Deuteronomy 32:18)

How could one pursue a thousand And two put then thousand to flight?/Not unless their Rock has sold them/And Jehovah had surrendered them./For their rock is not like our Rock,/Even our enemies being the one to decide. (Deuteronomy 32:30-31)

My God is my Rock, I shall take refuge in him./My shield and my horn of salvation, my secure height,/ And my place for flight, my Savior:from violence you save me. (2 Samuel, 22:3)

Another Fine Mess said:

Amanda

Christians and Muslims both acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah and the Son of God

No they don't.

Then I must have read this wrong:

Indeed they are disbelievers who say 'Surely God is none but the Messiah, the Son of Mary,' when the Messiah himself said 'O children of Israel, worship God who is my Lord and your Lord.' Surely, whoso associates partners with God to him has God forbiden Heaven and the Fire will be his resort. And the wrongdoers shall have no helpers. (Qu'ran, Chapter 5:73)

Now what I understood from this is that the Muslims don't believe in the Holy Trinity, that they acknowledge Jesus, Son of Mary, as the Messiah, the Son of God but also the Son of Man, and as Jesus is also Man that he cannot/should not be deified as a 'partner' to God. If you feel I have interpreted this wrong, please let me know.

kpr37 said:

At some point in Islamic theocratic concepts it's possible for a non-Muslim woman to become the "property" or "Booty" of the group who took her, if justified by claims of Jihad (2:190)whom your right hand possesses

So does the Bible:

As for your slave man and slave girl who becomes yours from the nations that are round about you people, from them you may buy a slave man and a slave girl. And also from the sons of settlers who are residing as aliens with you, from them you may buy and from their families that are with you whom they had born to them in your land, and they must become your possession. And you must pass them on as an inheritance to your sons after you to inherit as a posession to time indefinite. (Leviticus 44-46)

And they went waging war against Midian, just as Jehovah had commanded Moses, and they proceeded to kill every male. And they killed the kings of Midian along with the others slain, namely, Evi and Rekem and and Zur and Hur and Reba, the five kings of Midian, and they killed Balaam the son of beor with the sword. But the sons of Israel carried off the women of Midian and their little ones captive; and all their livestock and all their means of maintenace they plundered. And all their cities in which they had settled and all theor walled camps they burned with fire. And they went taking all the spoil and all the booty in the way of humans and domestic animals. And they came bringing to Moses and Eleazar the priest and to the assembly of the sons of Israel the captives and the booty and the spoil to the camp, to the desert plains of Moab,which are by the Jordan at Jericho. (Numbers 31:7-12)

Then Moses and Eleazar the priest and all the chieftains of the assembly went out to meet them outside the camp. And Moses grew indignant at the appointed men of the combat forcesthe chiefs of the thousands and the chiefs of the hundreds who were coming in from the military expedition. So Moses said to them, "Have you preserved alive every female? Look! They are the ones who, by Balaam's word, served to induce the Sons of Israel to commit unfaithfulness toward Jehovah over the affair of Peor, so that a scourge came upon the assembly of Jehovah. And now kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has had intercourse with man by lying with a male. And preserve alive for yourselves all the little ones among the women who have not known the act of lying with a male." (Numbers 31:13-19)

A little further on: As for human souls from the women who had not known the act of lying with a male, all the souls were thirty-two thousand. (Numbers 31:35)

Amanda, the concept of plurality within God is a denial of monotheism, and foreign to the revelation found in Muslim scripture. The act of ascribing partners to God, whether they be sons, daughters, or other partners, is considered to be blasphemous in Islam. The Qur'an repeatedly and firmly asserts God's absolute oneness, thus ruling out the possibility of another being sharing his sovereignty or nature.

People of the Book, do not go to excess in your religion, and do not say anything about God except the truth: the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was nothing more than a messenger of God, His word, directed to Mary, a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His messengers and do not speak of a 'Trinity'—stop, that is better for you—God is only one God, He is far above having a son, everything in the heavens and earth belongs to Him and He is the best one to trust.
— Qur'an, sura 4 (An-Nisa), ayat 171
Those who say, "God is the Messiah, son of Mary," have defied God. The Messiah himself said; "Children of Israel, worship God, my Lord and your Lord." If anyone associates others with God, God will forbid him from the Garden, and Hell will be his home. No one will help such evildoers. Those people who say that God is the third of three are defying [the truth]: there is only One God. If they persist in what they are saying, a painful punishment will afflict those of them who persist. Why do they not turn to God and ask his forgiveness, when God is most forgiving, most merciful? The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a messenger; other messengers had come and gone before him; his mother was a virtuous woman; both ate food. See how clear We make these signs for them; see how deluded they are.— Qur'an, sura 5 (Al-Ma'ida), ayat 72-75

I'd like to point out that while the Bible does state the things you posted, a reminder that those are from the Old Testament, the age of law. Under the New Testament we are living in the age of grace. Also, the times have changed for Christianity. They haven't for many Muslims.

Devlyn said:

I personally do not believe Jesus or God had this in mind for anyone of us. Man did this . the bible and Koran is a book written by men for men . I am a woman and to them I am nothing a second class citizen who should be submissive to men ROFLMAO to that .

And the same with the Bible. There's a passage that a woman should remain silent in a church and not stand to speak, and if she should have any questions she should go home and ask her husband.

because I dont cover all my skin to muslims I am a whore and any man can rape me without getting in trouble and we all know muslim men like this Idea .

"And those of your women who are guilty of lewdness call to witness four of you against them; and if they bear witness, then confine them to the houses until death overtake them or God opens for them a way."(Qu'ran, chapter 4:16)

And since the Qu'ran forbids fornication, raping a woman who 'does not conceal her beauty' is considered fornication and is proscribed. And since a woman who protects not her treasure from any but her husband would be violating Abrahamic law (Torah/Old Testament) and Qu'ran, she'd be considered an 'infidel' and would be considered unclean--and therefore untouchable.

And seriously, how many times have you seen a story on the news of a woman who was raped and people say it was the way she talked, the way she dressed? There was a story on the news last month of a 14 year old girl in Texas who was gang-raped by 20 males, 14 adults and 6 juveniles, and members of the community were quick to put the blame on the 14 year old because she dressed like she was older and wore makeup. How is this any different?

anyone who is not muslim is a infidel no I am not .

Surely, those who have believed, and the Jews and the Sabians and the Christians--whoso believeth in God and the Last Day and does good deeds, on them shall come no fear, nor shall they grieve. (Qu'ran, chapter 5:70)

The Muslims include as 'believers' themselves, Jews and the Christians who believe in God and Judgement Day and does good deeds. Anyone who doesn't fit in the above categories is an 'unbeliever'.

it is a way for them to do what thye want to whom they want hell they cannot stop kiling each other for religious differences .

All the religions in the world have all said, at one point in their religion's history, has said 'let's kill anyone who doesn't agree with us.' The Jews did it to Jesus himself; the Christians did it to the Jews, the Pagans, the Muslims, and each other; the Muslims do it to Jews, Pagans, Christians, and each other. No belief system in the world has been immune to that particular idealogical failing.

I think mohammad was a psychotic antisocial personality whos love of violence , rape , and pedophilia decided to make it leagal useing religion to do so.

The same could be said of the Old Testament. Lots of putting people of other cities to the sword, lots of raping and pillaging and plundering, killling of children. As for pedophilia-- it's always been religiously legal, the Bible prohibits a man from 'laying bare the nakedness' of your children but there is no rule that says 'thou shalt not lay bare the nakedness of anyone else's children.' There is no law in the Bible specifically prohibiting the lying down with children. Scholars themselves think thatMary herself might have been about 12 when she gave birth to Jesus--would that not make God a pedophile by today's standards? And Jesus himself said nothing about lying down with children was a sin/abomination.

Back then life was short and hard, and infant mortality was high. If you wanted to ensure the preservation of your genetic material in suceeding generations, it was biologically advantageous to marry early and often, and get your females started childbearng as soon as they were physically capable of it in hopes of having at least ONE child survive to adulthood. Females got married as soon as their fathers/male relatives gave permission.

child brides are way to common and I cant even think about what they go through on thier wedding night one recently died she was about 10 years old and the husband around 25-30 and he ruptured her uterous OMG that had to be so painfull for her and he did nothing to help her and stated she was sickly and would not please him the way he wanted .

The Christianized African tribes do the same thing, look at the atrocities Joseph Kony has committed in his quest to found an African state based solely on the ten commandments. He;s taken numerous child brides and conscripted young boys to serve as soldiers in his Lord's Republican Army.

do you see the pictures of all the men and how they act and are so touchy feeley to each other I find that disgusting ...... and they say there is no homosexuality over there .....OK what ever .

The French greet each other, girls and guys, by kissing each other on the cheek. Hugging too. Would you find that disgusting? After a football team makes a touchdown, you see guys slapping each others' butts, snapping them with towels, hugging, jumping in the air and bumping butts/hips.

The Bible itself has a very specific passage that says 'Thou shalt not lie with a man as with a woman--it is a detestable thing'. Says nothing about two women lying down together. So...why does God have a double standard?

As the Qu'ran is based off the Bible (Old Testament and Gospels)

No, it's not. Because Mohammad said so, does not in any way make the statement true. Only a "submitted person" would think that way. It's the dogma of Mohammad.

Charles Manson said he got messages from the Beatles, and thats why the Tate/ Labianca murders took place. But we dont believe unsupported statements for people talking to imaganry sky faeries or rock stars. At least no pagan I know does. You said you are a pagan right?

Of course Allah/God

strange, more Islamic dogma from a 'pagan'?

allah is not the Arabic word for god. Mohammad's father was named Abdullah ..slave of allah. And that allah, was a rock embedded in the Kabba. Separate the black rock of the Kabba that Mohammad's father was named after, from the black rock still worshiped at the kabba.

is a 'Rock'. Moses is one of the Great Prophets mentioned countless times in the Qu'ran

Moses is a Muslim prophet, in the Quran. You are said to be a Muslim, using the same nonsensical reasoning found in a hadith.

, and he called God a 'Rock' in the 'Song Of Moses'

Read this link http://wiccangrove.wordpress.com/2011/01/25/204/ and think about it.Was that what you think he is talking about.

Then I must have read this wrong:

Indeed they are disbelievers who say 'Surely God is none but the Messiah, the Son of Mary,'

In Islamic theology, Jesus is a Muslim who will return and kill all non-Muslims. That is not the Christian concept.

You seem to have accepted "submitted to" much Islamic dogma as fact, why?

do you know your system of belief (paganism), is a reason to be killed immediately under sharia law?

your defence of Islam is strange, I ask where, and when, this verse effects anyone living in the last two thousand years of Jewish history.

So does the Bible:

As for your slave man and slave girl who becomes yours from the nations that are round about you people, from them you may buy a slave man and a slave girl

At what date, did Jews hold slaves? justified by your verse. Please date the relevance of this, and how it was used.

Because when the Roman Emperor Hadrian conquered the Jewish nation in 135 (AD) there was no record of slavery in the Jewish state. Romans kept very good records. And any slaves held by the Jewish nation would have been spoils of war. Roman records, only mention the Jews who were enslaved.They were sold after the return to Rome and the money was dived among the Legions. Trained slaves, or people who were conditioned to be slaves, sold at a higher price, than freshly enslaved people.They were two separate categories

See, I've know many practitioners of Wicca in my life. I've never seen one defend Islam at all, let alone with such vigor.

But I have seen many "submitted people" pretending to be of other faiths, who take up the cause of defending Islam by attacking Christians and Jews. You know, just like you are doing (LOL) it's rather common.

Dont believe you are a pagan, I did, but no longer do I.

Orlando:

Hello, haven't yet had a chance to research all the points in your email, was going to do some heavy reading today.

In your post, you said:

Amanda, the concept of plurality within God is a denial of monotheism, and foreign to the revelation found in Muslim scripture. The act of ascribing partners to God, whether they be sons, daughters, or other partners, is considered to be blasphemous in Islam. The Qur'an repeatedly and firmly asserts God's absolute oneness, thus ruling out the possibility of another being sharing his sovereignty or nature.

Yes, it does, I agree with you on that. which is why they look at the idea of the 'Holy Trinity'--Father, Son, and Holy Spirit' as a symbol of an unbeliever.

People of the Book, do not go to excess in your religion, and do not say anything about God except the truth: the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was nothing more than a messenger of God, His word, directed to Mary, a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His messengers and do not speak of a 'Trinity'—stop, that is better for you—God is only one God, He is far above having a son, everything in the heavens and earth belongs to Him and He is the best one to trust.
— Qur'an, sura 4 (An-Nisa), ayat 171

The translation I have was given me is from a Muslim mosque in my municipality. It doesn't have an 'An Nisa', it has an 'al-Nisa', and 4:171 in my translation says:

Oh mankind, the Messenger has indeed come to you with Truth from your Lord; Believe therefore, it will be better for you. But if you disbelieve, verily, to Allah belongs whatever is in the heavens and the earth. And Allah is all knowing and All Wise.

Now 4: 172 says:

O People Of The Book, exceed not the limits in your religion,and say not of Allah anything but the truth. Verily the Messiah, Jesus, Son of Mary, was only a messenger of Alla and a fulfilment of His word which he sent down to Mary, and a mercy from Him. So believe Allah and his messengers, and say not 'They Are Three'. Desist, it will be better for you. Verily, Allah is the only One God. Far is it from his Holiness that He should have a son. To Him belings whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the Earth. And Sufficient is Allah as a guardian.

And right after that 4:173 continues:

Surely the Messiah will never disdain to be a servant of Allah, nor will the angels near unto God, and whoso disdains to worship Him and feels proud, He will gather them all to Himself.

Those who say, "God is the Messiah, son of Mary," have defied God. The Messiah himself said; "Children of Israel, worship God, my Lord and your Lord." If anyone associates others with God, God will forbid him from the Garden, and Hell will be his home. No one will help such evildoers. Those people who say that God is the third of three are defying [the truth]: there is only One God. If they persist in what they are saying, a painful punishment will afflict those of them who persist. Why do they not turn to God and ask his forgiveness, when God is most forgiving, most merciful? The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a messenger; other messengers had come and gone before him; his mother was a virtuous woman; both ate food. See how clear We make these signs for them; see how deluded they are.— Qur'an, sura 5 (Al-Ma'ida), ayat 72-75

The translation I have says somewhat different:

6:72:

And they they thought there would be no punishment, so they became blind and deaf. But Allah turned to them in mercy; yet again many of them became blind and deaf; and Allah Is Watchful of what they do.

6:73:

Indeed they are disbelievers who say , 'Surely, Allah is none but the Messiah, Son of Mary' whereas the Messiah himself said 'O children of Israel, worship Allah who is my Lord and your Lord.' Surely, whoso associates partners with Allah, him has Allah forbidden heaven and the Fire will be his resort. And the wrongdoers shall have no helpers.

6:74

They are surely disbelievers who say 'Allah is the third of three;' there is no God but the One God. And if they do not desist from what they say, a grievous punishment shall surely befall those of them who disbelieve.

6:75

Will they not then turn to Allah and beg His forgiveness, while Allah is Most Forgiving, Most Merciful?

6:76

The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a Messenger; surely, Messengers like unto him had indeed passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman. They both used to eat food. See how We explain the Signs for their good, and see how they are turned away.

look at the atrocities Joseph Kony has committed in his quest to found an African state based solely on the ten commandments He;s taken numerous child brides and conscripted young boys to serve as soldiers in his Lord's Republican Army.

Lord's Resistance Army. Bigoted against Christians and Republicans alike I see (LOL)

But the "lord" of the Army is a dead Italian dude called “Lakwena” sorry that is not Christianity.

From wikipedia on LRA:

Let’s look at the original leadership of the LRA and Holy Spirit Movement just to see if we can "get smarter here"

“Alice Auma (1956 – 17 January 2007) was an Acholispirit-medium who, as the head of the Holy Spirit Movement, led a millennial rebellion against the Ugandangovernment forces of President Yoweri Museveni from August 1986 until November 1987. The primary spirit she purportedly channeled

Channelling spirits ? I'm pretty sure Christianity as a faith, does not encourage such activities

was that of a dead Italian army officer called “Lakwena”,

Dead spirit guides are not part of the christian faith, they are not connected in any way.

meaning messenger, which the Acholi believe to be a manifestation of the Christian Holy Spirit.[1]

Dead Italian Army officers, or their messages from the "other side" are not a part of the doctrine of Christianity, nor are dead Italians considered a "holy spirit" in Christianity .

The combined persona of Alice Auma channeling the spirit Lakwena is often referred to as Alice Lakwena.”

Sorry, but the connection between the lords resistance army, and Christianity is non-existent when you examine the empirical evidence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Auma

NPR confirms the the crazy woman "Animalist/ spiritualist" Alice Auma was the founder of the "Lords Resistance Army" .

The "Lord" of the Army, seem to be a dead Italian dude. Christians dont worship or recognise dead
Italian dudes as religious guides.

Alice Lakwena is the spiritual founder of Uganda's Lord's Resistance Army. Although the army has been charged with war crimes, NPR's Eric Westervelt reports Lakwena lives quietly in a U.N. refugee camp in neighboring Kenya.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5010520

If they represent Christianity, why is the fundamentalist Islamic nation of the Sudan, the only nation giving them international support

Just this week, the Enough Project learned from multiple, credible sources in the field that elements of the LRA had crossed into Darfur. These forces appear to be seeking safe haven under the protection of the Sudanese military, and Sudan's notorious president, Omar Hassan al-Bashir, has been a longtime LRA patron, so this does not come as a surprise.
Clearly, Kony and his deputies believe that Sudan is one of the few places left where the Ugandan army will not pursue them, and they are likely increasingly desperate.

The even larger story is what all of this says about Sudan and Bashir at a time when U.S. diplomacy has been geared to striking a new tone in the relationship. Although Bashirhas been eager to portray himself as willing to repair relations with the world after last year'sInternational Criminal Courtindictment, and the United States in particular,giving safe haven to the LRA is
yet another slap at Darfuris, at Washington, and at fundamental human decency. The evidence clearly suggests that advance LRA scouts coordinated with Sudanese armed forces well in advance of the LRA's arrival in Darfur, and it seems implausible that local
Sudanese armed forces commanders would welcome the group in Darfurwithout seeking approval from Khartoum, including Bashir. There are also suggestions that the LRA has received direct logistical support from the Sudanese army since arriving in Darfur.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/03/11/sudan_is_still_up_to_no_good

Just a well of disinformation you are!

given me is from a Muslim mosque in my municipality

Do "Witches" spend a lot of time in their local Mosque (LOL)

kpr said:

No, it's not. Because Mohammad said so, does not in any way make the statement true. Only a "submitted person" would think that way. It's the dogma of Mohammad.

This is the passage in the Qu'ran that I read:

Say 'O People of the Book! You stand on nothing until you observe the Torah and the Gospel and what has now been sent down to you from your Lord.' And surely what has been sent down to thee from thy Lord will increase many of them in rebellion and disbelief; so grieve not for the disbelieving people. (Qu'ran, 5:69

So if that doesn';t mean that the Qu'ran is based off the Bible, then how is one to interpret that?

allah is not the Arabic word for god. Mohammad's father was named Abdullah ..slave of allah.

I was reading the copy of the Bible I have last night and I saw a passage where Jehovah called the Israelites his slaves. I can't find it now (I wish I'd marked the page).

At what date, did Jews hold slaves? justified by your verse. Please date the relevance of this, and how it was used.

Do a Google search for Jews holding slaves. Logic dictates that if the Bible has whole sections devoted to laws concerning slaves, then there must have been slaves that they needed to have laws about. At least that's my understanding. You wouldn't need to have laws about slaves if you didn't have any.

And there are still slaves all over the world today.

In Islamic theology, Jesus is a Muslim who will return and kill all non-Muslims. That is not the Christian concept.

Christian theology as I understand it (went to Catholic elementary schools)is that on the Last Day, God/Jesus will return and take the believers, the Christians, up into Heaven with him, and everyone else will go to Hell.

You seem to have accepted "submitted to" much Islamic dogma as fact, why?

I haven't. I am taking the Qu'ran at face value, in much the same way that I quoted the Bible at face value. I'm going under the open-minded assumption that practitioners of each religion take their holy book at face value. Christians believe in everything their Bible says; Muslims believe everything their Holy Book says. I'm going to be looking for a copy of the Torah next for comparison.

do you know your system of belief (paganism), is a reason to be killed immediately under sharia law?

And in several parts of the world, Christians still kill suspected witches.

your defence of Islam is strange, I ask where, and when, this verse effects anyone living in the last two thousand years of Jewish history.

I'm just quoting the Bible, as you quoted the Qu'ran about slavery. My intent is simply to show that both Holy Books have much the same stuff in it.

Where did I ever say I was 'defending' Islam? Per the first post I made on this thread (the one that was collapsed) my assertion is that I don't see any difference between the Jews, Christians, and Muslims--all of you are based off the same Abrahamic belief system, so I don't understand why the division between all of you. The Bible and the Qu'ran both have the same stuff in it, so I seriously don't understand why you all hate each other and want to kill each other.

There is no one true way, and it's what you do that matters, not whose Name you do it in. I don't believe that a practitioner of one specific religion is automatically evil because they practice that religion, or that they are automatically 'bad' or 'wrong' for believing one Holy Book over the Other. I have a problem with one practitioner of one belief system believing that a practitoner of another belief system is evil, bad and will go to hell just for being part of a different belief system.

THAT's what I'm trying to convey.

Dont believe you are a pagan, I did, but no longer do I.

You are free to believe whatever you want to believe. There is no one true way. As neither you nor I are part of the Abrahamic belief system, there's no reason to castigate anyone for trying to clarify the stated differences between three belief systems by pointing out similar passages in both those belief systems' Holy Books.

kpr said:

Lord's Resistance Army. Bigoted against Christians and Republicans alike I see (LOL)

Sorry. I did get that wrong. Sincere thanks for the correction!

And no, I generally do not agree with the ideals that the Republican Party espouse, but then again, since I don't vote, it's not a real concern for me. If I don't vote I don't really have a right to criticize a candidate.

Channelling spirits ? I'm pretty sure Christianity as a faith, does not encourage such activities

No, neither do the Jews or Muslims. It's one of the things that they all agree on. And yet the Christians and Jews and Muslims i know all pretty myuch get along with me. With a few exceptions--I had a lady tell me I was going to hell recently when I stopped a bus for her and she saw the pentagram hanging next to my dog tags.

If they represent Christianity, why is the fundamentalist Islamic nation of the Sudan, the only nation giving them international support

Last I'd heard Kony was somewhere in the trackless jungle between South Sudan and the DRC and Uganda. I had heard that the Ugandans accused the Sudanese government of hiding/aiding/helping Kony based on the fact that one of the LRA members captured wore a Sudanese uniform, but the Sudanese ambassador denounced that publicly:

Sudan's ambassador to London has denied the allegations as "a big lie".

"We are not helping and we will not help [Joseph Kony]. He's a criminal," ambassador Abdullahi al-Azreg told the BBC's Newshour programme.

Ugandan army spokesman Col Felix Kulayigye told the BBC it had information that the LRA was now moving into Sudan, including areas of Darfur controlled by the pro-government Janjaweed militia.

"Kony knows we can't enter that region, so when the pressure is high in Central Africa he crosses into the Sudanese border [areas]," he said.

During Sudan's two-decade civil war, Uganda supported rebels who last year led South Sudan to independence. Meanwhile, Sudan's government was widely believed to have supported the LRA in order to weaken the Ugandan military capability.

A senior Ugandan military commander recently said his country might intervene if war broke out between the two Sudans, implying it would be on the side of the South.

And:

The BBC's Dan Damon is one of a few journalists who has visited the US forces based in Obo, Central African Republic.

He says fear of the LRA is tangible and real to people in Central Africa, especially in remote areas along the heavily forested and often unmarked borders between Uganda, the Democratic Republic of Congo, South Sudan and Central African Republic.

Also, in January of last year:

Karl Wycoff, the US Deputy Assistance Secretary for African Affairs said Friday he has seen no evidence of support from Sudan to the LRA though he said he was aware of the allegation. "It's something we closely monitor," Wycoff said during a telephone conference with journalists.

Ugandan Army spokesman Felix Kulayige said Kony has left Darfur and crossed back into congo. Kulayige, who did not say when Kony had crossed back over, also said Ugandan officials have no evidence of any support to Kony from Khartoum.

Do "Witches" spend a lot of time in their local Mosque (LOL)

I can't speak for all Wiccans in my muncipality but I've actually never been inside one. I volunteer at the local animal shelter and the volunteers come from all walks of life. Three of us me, a Christian, and a Muslim were talking about the differences in our belief systems one day, and I asked her about what was actually in the Qu'ran--there's a lot of misinformation out there about the whole '72 virgins' thing, and she laughed at me and said to come to her mosque one day and she'd give me a copy of the Qu'ran, so I could read it for myself and see what actually was there and what wasn't. So I did and she did and we're having some spirited discussions about differences and similarities.

Amanda

They believe that Jesus was another prophet not the Son of God, therein lies the difference.

Then I must have read this wrong:

Indeed they are disbelievers who say 'Surely God is none but the Messiah, the Son of Mary,' when the Messiah himself said 'O children of Israel, worship God who is my Lord and your Lord.' Surely, whoso associates partners with God to him has God forbiden Heaven and the Fire will be his resort. And the wrongdoers shall have no helpers. (Qu'ran, Chapter 5:73)

Now what I understood from this is that the Muslims don't believe in the Holy Trinity, that they acknowledge Jesus, Son of Mary, as the Messiah, the Son of God but also the Son of Man, and as Jesus is also Man that he cannot/should not be deified as a 'partner' to God. If you feel I have interpreted this wrong, please let me know.

It's fair to say that the quran is based on the OT but there's no actual link to it save for the alleged word of Muhammad. He took pre-existing God from a pagan Pantheon and simply shoehorned it into the OT, when Kpr says a rock he really does mean a physical rock, research stone worship in the Arabian peninsular.

i think that the 2 kids have over active bladders. they had to piss somewere so they pissed and got a lot of people pissed off. so what alittle piss here and there,big deal. now the muslims are pissed off,thats good !!!!!!!!!!!!!! they should piss on each other and get their madness off.

How to get rid of those noisy kids that scream while they play? Accuse them of pissing on the Qumran!

Kind of like the couple that got divorced in America. The woman was angry at her EX so she reported him as a possible "terrorist". Without any investigation he was placed on a no-fly list and he lost his job as a salesman. *crazy times*

a passerby had on Monday seen the children ripping up pages of a copy of the Quran and urinating on it in front of the local mosque,

or maybe it should read: Local Muslim wacko on his way to get his axe ground sees two non-Muslim boys laughing and having fun.......

In Muslim land, this can easily be misconstrued as blasphemy.

Yeah, piss on it. Who gives a $h!t anyway?

Ahh a world without any religion would be like a return to EDEN!

Religion in and of iteself is not evil the people who claim to tell you how to use it are.

No, religion is evil in and of itself as all religions claim legitimacy way beyond thier value based on superstition and the foolish notion that "my god" is "better" than "your god." Any true "religious" person or better described "self-aware and trying to be a good person" does NOT force their opinions on the rest of us. The proof is in the pudding, religions that force thier "beliefs" on anybody (everybody) else are crap and should be ignored. If they cause damage by murder or abuse they should then be dealt with like any other offender/law-breaker and jailed. Those who would harm these boys in this story should be jailed as they are abusers of children and cowards to boot.

Noisynosylib..........you are my hero

noisy, i disagree. any religion that would deny certain people rights while giving them to another is evil, which is almost all religions.

i smell something fishy with this story though. where do a 9 and 10 year old boy from a christian family get a quran from? it wouldn't be in there house and one of them would have no use for a book anyway when he's illiterate. i think that either someone gave them the book and incited them to this crime or they found this holy book somewhere on the streets, meaning it had been desecrated already.

Noisy, you from Joisey? My god is better than your god is about right, and that's the better part of what's wrong. However, I prefer to look at it as all organized religions are like farts, yours is ok but everyone elses stinks.

This story is sickening..WTF? Who gives a crap if anyone pisses on the Koran!! I am Catholic As I type the NEA (tax payer funded with Millions!) has some display of the Virgin Mary being dipped in PISS ~

And who can forget

the crucifix of JESUS turned upside down in Elephant Sh*t

(also funded by TAX PAYERS!)

When an American CHRISTIAN is mocked, insulted, marginalized and disrespected the American LEFT (Obama Democrat Voters & Obamas "Messiah" Media) Tell us to STFU "Its Art" But you let a CHILD or an American Christian offend any MUSLIM & they descend like soldiers to PERSECUTE the American Christian!

SHAME ON THIS OBAMA MEDIA They GET AMERICANS MURDERED!!!! Always protecting their Bible..The Bible of OBAMA LIES!

Exactly Love..I agree 100%

Then both of you have a lot to learn then. The American left and true conservatives not Obama followers say the first amendment gives people the right to object to anything. Your stupid remarks included.

Love2Troops said:

When an American CHRISTIAN is mocked, insulted, marginalized and disrespected the American LEFT (Obama Democrat Voters & Obamas "Messiah" Media) Tell us to STFU "Its Art" But you let a CHILD or an American Christian offend any MUSLIM & they descend like soldiers to PERSECUTE the American Christian!

The displays that you speak of, the Christian icons anointed in bodily fluids/organic matter--is despicable and offensive, and the artist, I believe has gotten death threats.

No children in America have been arrested for offending a Muslim.

If by American Christian you mean Nakoula, the one who made the film, he is Egypt-born, (apparently) naturalized American and he was not perrsecuted for the film, he was placed in custody pending the investigation into his parole violations plus fraud and misrepresentation.

The children in this article are not American, nor are they in America. They are in Egypt and laws are different there. Let each country handle their own citizens--it is not the US's responsibility to get involved in another country's internal affairs.

@Amanda - Have you been living in a cave somewhere?!?!?! Obama and Clinton have both very publicly and repeatedly denounced Nakoula for making his film. They have repeatedly denounced anyone who does or says anything to even remotely criticize Islam or Muslims while sitting back and saying nothing when the Christians or Jewish faiths are repeatedly attacked or denounced by Muslims or others. This administration seems to care more about defending Islam from any criticism than defending the right of free speech that is the cornerstone of a free and democratic society. Not once in any of Obama or Clinton's comments about Nakoula or his film has either one of them said a single word about the need for free speech and the rights of all people to express how they feel regardless of whether you agree with what they are saying or not. They are both more concerned with kissing Muslim ass than defending our Constitution and the right of free speech.

"When an American CHRISTIAN is mocked, insulted, marginalized and disrespected the American LEFT (Obama Democrat Voters & Obamas "Messiah" Media) Tell us to STFU "Its Art" .

Right, blame Mr. Obama and the "left". The only people nuttier than religious extremists are people who rigidly divide Americans into "liberal" and "conservative". Sorry friend, but life isn't as black or white as that. Many Americans if not most, are somewhere in between. I'm a LIBERAL and "art" that mocks Christianity or any faith offends me too. Don't assume that all people who protect it as "free speech" are in agreement with it. Sometimes we have to protect a lot of things that we don't like, with a greater goal in mind. Also, I note that some religious people take ANY criticism of their behavior in our pluralistic society as "disrespect". I'd be the first to voice disapproval at an "art installation" which puts a crucifix into excrement, but I'd also be the first to voice disapproval over church backed politics that try, for example, to make Bible teachings the law of the land.

JS in SD said:

@Amanda - Have you been living in a cave somewhere?!?!?! Obama and Clinton have both very publicly and repeatedly denounced Nakoula for making his film.

Yes they have, but they didn't send soldiers to 'persecute' him for making the film, they sent federal parole officials to investigate possible parole violations.

They have repeatedly denounced anyone who does or says anything to even remotely criticize Islam or Muslims while sitting back and saying nothing when the Christians or Jewish faiths are repeatedly attacked or denounced by Muslims or others.

That's not what I heard:

“The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam. But to be credible, those who condemn that slander, must also condemn the hate we see in the images of Jesus Christ that are desecrated, or churches destroyed, or the Holocaust that is denied.”

Not once in any of Obama or Clinton's comments about Nakoula or his film has either one of them said a single word about the need for free speech and the rights of all people to express how they feel regardless of whether you agree with what they are saying or not.

In President Obama's speech to the UN about the Middle East turmoil, he said:

“Here in the United States, countless publications provoke offense. Like me, the majority of Americans are Christian, and yet we do not ban blasphemy against our most sacred beliefs. As president of our country, and commander in chief of our military, I accept that people are going to call me awful things every day, and I will always defend their right to do so.

Americans have fought and died around the globe to protect the right of all people to express their views — even views that we profoundly disagree with. We do so not because we support hateful speech, but because our founders understood that without such protections, the capacity of each individual to express their own views and practice their own faith may be threatened.

We do so because in a diverse society, efforts to restrict speech can quickly become a tool to silence critics and oppress minorities. We do so because, given the power of faith in our lives, and the passion that religious differences can inflame, the strongest weapon against hateful speech is not repression, it is more speech — the voices of tolerance that rally against bigotry and blasphemy, and lift up the values of understanding and mutual respect.”

Here we go again with "Obama's Media." I've also heard it called the Republican media. It can't be both.

If you don't like the story, click to another one. No one is forcing you to read this.

It never ceases to make me laugh when people go on rants against the media when they can't string together a coherent sentence and have never set foot inside a newsroom.

Way to go news media, keep reporting every single, obscure incident of anti-Muslim or anti-Christian behavior that happens in the world with great big headlines, and fan the flames of hatred and ignorance.

reporting facts about what a country does is not "fanning the flames of hatred", but what do you think trying to suppress news about mistreatment of minorities is?

They think that the west is holding them back, but most of it is internal.

And if we all just ignore little leroy brown, he will eventually go away...along with all the other "believers" who measure crop circles, and talk on their shortweaves, to little green men nobody has ever seen...the whole idea that we must respect a person as muddleheaded as that is ludicrous.

"This whole idea that a person's "faith" is something that we must "respect" needs to be rejected outright"

It seems to me that intolerant people are the problem, be they atheist or faithful. Your lack of tolerance for what you don't believe in is EXACTLY like the intolerance shown to "infidels" by muslims. The sad thing is, I actually think you are proud of your hypocrisy. Yet one more zealot trying to push his views on others....

No, we do NOT have to respect a person's "faith." We probably SHOULD respect people for being people. But to say the I must respect your "faith" because you REALLY, REALLY believe that blah blah blah happened or blah blah blah is the son of god, or that blah, blah, blah is a prophet is ridiculous. If by intolerance to your beliefs you mean ignoring and disempowering your supersticions by pointing out that they are just as silly as other religious beliefs (and have no basis in fact) and you then equate this to bullying little children (pissing on stupid books, or supposedly burning quarans) then you are a hypocrite. How can my pointing out that your "beliefs" are silly be even close to harming a child in the name of blasphemy? That is a false and ignorant dichotomy.

Mike,

There is a difference between tolerance and respect. There is no reason that I or leroy brown should have to keep our opinions quiet in deference to religion. If I believe religion is dangerous, it doesn't make me intolerant.

And if I voice that opinion, it may seem disrespectful, but it is not intolerant. I am not calling to ban religion (which would definitely be intolerance), merely criticizing it.

Religion has spent a lot of time on this Earth being protected from criticism due to the assumption that it deserves respect. And that has rarely worked out well.

If you can't take criticism of your beliefs, you may need to reevaluate them.

Ali EXCELLENT point......And if these bastards in the Obama is Messiah Media had any souls or conscience they would mention that fact...Obama hasn't skipped a beat writing a BILLION $ check to these Barbarians!

Obama always seems to 'CARE" more about Muslim Countries than this Country ...Obama sure as hell doesn't give crap about The American Military..Even in the debate he casually said ..

I will Take 2 Billion or so from the Military "Funding they don't want anyway" Obama actually said that! WTF?

Do you know any American who would put FOOD STAMP funding before DEFENSE funding?

Yes we do know of at least One American who feels that way....Obama our L I A R n Chief!

You are using this to post anti Obama lies and you think people do not know this?

I will Take 2 Billion or so from the Military "Funding they don't want anyway" Obama actually said that! WTF?

LOL you take the cake what is wrong with that statement it is mney they do not have to use idiot.

@Giantego you are stupid-- the military is being over funded.. Romney wants to give them 2 trillion dollars over what their proposed budget is. So yea they don't want or need that money. Romney just wants to funnel it to his beneficiaries

AND He's YOUR PRESDIDENT Just think of that while you Urinate out your tea.

Boy this clown need to see a shrink quick. He slams Slate whos lead story is That Obama did not do well in the debate. See they do not even read just post crap they read on right wing blogs.

Love2Troops--

Take a tour of your local newsroom.

Or better yet please go sit out on the front lines in the Middle East and report the story the way you want it. No one is going to argue.

Stop using a foreign affairs story to peddle your anti-Obama bull. I don't even like Obama and I find your rants uneducated, incoherent and exhausting.

Chicken Sh*ts! I guess when Obama the L I A R isn't hiding under the metaphoric dress of His Messiah Media he can't hang. Mitt exposed Obama for the Dishonest, inept, FAILURE that he is!!

And I wonder what your take is on garbage sights like WND as opposed to sights like Slate where real numbers and facts are typically used? Obviously you have been reading a lot of right wing tabloid media. It must get you good and riled up, doesn't it? Like belting down a couple of hot Budweisers.

This is why I will never side with the Right. Post like that are just garbage without a scintilla of relation to reality. The bold type is just laughable as you say nothing of importance in the entire piece.

And you call Obama "dishonest" yet Romney did nothing last night but run from his previous positions. And a failure? That's how the people of Massachusetts surely judged Mitt Romney. Yet he acted like he just left office and that they just loved him, when the only thing most liked was his healthcare plan.

But you would probably vote for a turd sandwich out of your own irrational hatred of Obama. Anything to get a Far Right government in power. Something most Americans would surely quickly regret. It may be a lesson we have to learn in order that it never happen again.

But this story is about tow kids peeing on the Koran, not the race for President. These little kids are lucky they are under protection because they clearly might be torn apart by fundamentalist Muslims. And of course that is what their loving God demands. As if at 10 and living in a backwards society they knew what they are doing? But fundamentalism is also on the rise here in America and it really doesn't matter what religion you follow, religious fundamentalism leads to intolerance and persecution of others. It turned Egypt from a world leader to a backwards society and it will do the same here.

Why would you pee on it, I mean if there was nothing else to wipe your ass with, yeah I could see that, but pee?

It gives the pages a nice color when it dries.

Coptic's are discriminated against by the islamists and hate them for their suffering. They are the remnants of the christian majority from the 4-5th century which was Egypts major rligion before the islamists took over. naturally they teach their children to hate islamists as islamists teach theirs to hate christians. As the jews teach their children and the list goes on. Respect my religion or I will kill you etc.

Contempt for any other religion is considered 'civic duty' and therefor is not considered a crime.

Is murder and false testimony also civic duty???

Gunner said:

Contempt for any other religion is considered 'civic duty' and therefor is not considered a crime.

You know, this interpretation I don't understand because there's nothing in the Qu'ran that says that. Here's what I found in my reading:

Say 'O People of the Book! You stand on nothing until you observe the Torah and the Gospel and what has now been sent down to you from your Lord.' And surely what has been sent down to thee from thy Lord will increase many of them in rebellion and disbelief; so grieve not for the disbelieving people. (Qu'ran, 5:69

Surely, those who have believed, and the Jews and the Sabians and the Christians--whoso believeth in God and the Last Day and does good deeds, on them shall come no fear, nor shall they grieve. (Qu'ran, chapter 5:70)

Indeed they are disbelievers who say 'Surely God is none but the Messiah, the Son of Mary,' when the Messiah himself said 'O children of Israel, worship God who is my Lord and your Lord.' Surely, whoso associates partners with Gopd to him has God forbiden Heaven and the Fire will be his resort. And the wrongdoers shall have no helpers. (Qu'ran, Chapter 5:73)

They are surely disbelievers who say "God is the third of three' there is no God but the One God.' And if they do not desist from what they say, a grievous punishment shall surely befall those of them who disbelieve. (Qu'ran, chapter 5:74)

Thou shalt assuredly find those who say 'We are Christians' to be nearest of them in love to the believers. (Qu'ran chapter 5:83)

They believe there's only one God, they do acknowledge that Jesus is the Messiah, and any Jew, Muslim and Christian who does good deeds/works, believes in God and the Last Day/Judgement day will go to heaven. What they have issue with are the people who believe in the 'Holy Trinity'--they don't deify Jesus since he was also the Son of Man as well as the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit is a force.

The Arabs of the desert are the worst in disbelief and hypocrisy, and most apt not to know the ordinances of the Revelation which God has sent down to His Messenger (Quran, chapter 11:97

And among the Arabs of the desert are those who regard that which they spend for God as a fine and they wait for calamities to befall you. On themselves shall fall an evil calamity. (Quran chapter 11:98

And of the desert Arabs around you some are hypocrites; and of the people of Medina also. They persist in hypocrisy. Thou knowest them not; We know them. We will punish them twice, then they shall be given over to a great punishment. (Qu'ran chapter 11:101)

Now, the copy of the Qu'ran is one given me by an American Muslim friend, another volunteer at the animal shelter we both volunteer for; so this would be what American Muslims believe, and I suspect that a Quran in a Middle Eastern mosque may be a bit different.

"Is murder and false testimony also civic duty???"

Yes, it is called "taqiyya" and it is practised by ALL muslims. It is special permission to lie to promote the interests of islam or to protect oneself. Our troops call it "circle speak"; you can always count on a muslim to lie.

This sounds like yet another case of "false witness" to remove a hated neighbor.

"I suspect that a Quran in a Middle Eastern mosque may be a bit different."

The only difference is the language and the direction that you read the text.

Quran
(8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve.
Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Quran
(9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians
say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they
imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how
they are turned away!"

Other than the fact that Muslims haven't killed every
non-Muslim under their domain, there is very little else that they can point to
as proof that theirs is a peaceful, tolerant religion. Where Islam is dominant
(as in the Middle East and Pakistan) religious minorities suffer brutal
persecution with little resistance. Where Islam is in the minority (as in
Thailand, the Philippines and Europe) there is the threat of violence if Muslim
demands are not met. Either situation seems to provide a justification for
religious terrorism, which is persistent and endemic to Islamic
fundamentalism.

The reasons are obvious and begin with the Quran. Few verses
of Islam's most sacred text can be construed to fit the contemporary virtues of
religious tolerance and universal brotherhood. Those that do are earlier
"Meccan" verses which are obviously abrogated by later ones. This is why Muslim
apologists speak of the "risks" of trying to interpret the Quran without their
"assistance" - even while claiming that it is a perfect book.

Far from being mere history or theological construct, the
violent verses of the Quran have played a key role in very real massacre and
genocide. This includes the brutal slaughter of tens of millions of Hindus for
five centuries beginning around 1000 AD with Mahmud of Ghazni's bloody
conquest. Both he and the later Tamerlane (Islam's Genghis Khan) slaughtered an
untold number merely for defending their temples from destruction. Buddhism was
very nearly wiped off the Indian subcontinent. Judaism and Christianity met the
same fate (albeit more slowly) in areas conquered by Muslim armies, including
the Middle East, North Africa and parts of Europe, including today's Turkey.
Zoroastrianism, the ancient religion of a proud Persian people is despised by
Muslims and barely survives in modern Iran.

but someone has to work to pay taxesto support these scums as well as the free loaders in this country!

Hey Mitt go back to sleep

You could say that for any religious person that claims Godly intervention in everyday activities.

i posted this higher up, where do a 9 and 10 year old boy from a christian family get a quran from? it wouldn't be in there house and one of them would have no use for a book anyway when he's illiterate. i think that either someone gave them the book and incited them to this crime or they found this holy book somewhere on the streets, meaning it had been desecrated already.

YEAH!!!!!!...Burn my flag and the Qaran gets it!

Dear protesters everytime you attack,kill or burn a US flag,solider or behead someone I piss on ,burn or wipe my feet on your stupid Quran book and will keep doing it because there isn't anything you can do to stop me!

I have a God given freedom in my country to do this and if your Quran is so important to you then you'll stop attacking ,burning and acting like fools, I beg you don't make me attack you Quran, you respect me,my people and ways and I will respect yours!

If not I can burn,pee and wipe my feet on your stupid book all day!

Your choice!

If only Jewish people in Europe did the same to the christian bible when christians were attacking Jews in the Pogroms. They really should have.

And you can do his job better?

No, an American citizen can do Obama's job better! Only in this country would we oust one Hussein from one country to vote one in our own! The irony Barrack Hussein Obama...go figure!