Stay tuned!

I will but so far I don't like any of this.

I am from Philly. It's hard to watch the Cowboys and Giants on T.V. because I want both of them to lose. This is how I feel about the Turks and the Syrians. And I make no distinction between the Syrian or Turkish people and their respective regimes. They all deserve each other.

On a different note, the Turks will save Assad if their military crosses the border. Nothing unites a fractured community faster then outsider intrusion. It will be a target rich environment for the Turks that includes the Free Syrian Army (future terrorists), al Quaida (current terrorists) and Assad loyalists (terrorists of the soon to be past), and I don't think the Turks will be able to distunguish between any of them. I just hope this doesn't evolve into a NATO (USA) vs. the Russian/Chinese alliance.

Y'all ready for this?

Dave. I don't understand exactly what you're expecting me to stay tuned for. The situation with Israel is totally different from the one between Syria and Turkey (both countries I've been I've been in). So I'll keep informed but not in the way you suggest.

@dave,

Turkey is enduring the same, but it has come to exactly one RF-4 shootdown and two mortar attacks against fleeing refugees. This is not the same situation. The vast majority of Surians are very fond of Turks. Only the minority Alawite/Christian Assad government is at issue.

@HonestJ,

Not making a distinction between the Turks and the Syrians shows a serious lack of information. The Turks are a nuclear-armed (40 US-made weapons under their control) NATO member who is taking every step only after consultation with both NATO and the UN. The Turks are long-standing allies with a number of American military bases on Turkish soil and huge arms purchases from the US. This goes back to the Korean War when the Turks were one of the few countries to respond to UN calls for assistance for the US in fighting the North Koreans/Chinese. They were heroes of the Pusan cantonment, fighting along the 25th Infantry Division.

Both the Turks and the vast majority Syrian people are Sunnis who are very western-oriented. Only the brutal Assad regime, composed of a tiny minority of Alawites and Christians under the Baathist banner, and allied with Iran, want to fight. When Assad falls, the big losers will be Iran and Russia (which will lose its only overseas military base and its only way os sustaining the Black Sea Fleet against NATO in the event of hostilities.) This isn't a fractured regime that can be re-united. It is an unholy alliance of two tiny mionorities who will be slaughtered in the end. Your rant is both nonsensical and hugely mis-informed.

Again Chris-749391 Turkey Doesn't ANY Nuclear Weapons....WE DO! So please stop with that line!

Psst Did You Here About The .......

Russian Attack Submarine Sailed in Gulf of Mexico Undetected for Weeks

http://nation.foxnews.com/russia/2012/08/14/russian-attack-submarine-sailed-gulf-mexico-undetected-weeks

Russian Sub Sneaks into Gulf of Mexico

http://www.turkishweekly.net/news/140443/russian-sub-sneaks-into-gulf-of-mexico.html

Sorry but My Grandsons lives (and the rest of our children) are worth more than all of your Ra Ra Swish BOMB Ba Nonsense! I refuse to quietly set by while "Chicken Hawks" to get US into another Not War For Fun & Profit!

Notice Folks.....Still No Supporting links just Opinions Disinformation and Pro War Propaganda!

@MUW,

Turkey has between 40 and 70 US-made B61-12 nuclear weapons. These are completely under Turkish control. Turkey is one of five nations in NATO's nuclear weapons sharing alliance which involves about 90 to 140 of the thermonuclear free-fall weapons. The weapons are located at Incirlik AFB. The TAF 142nd fighter/bomber squadron has full operational control of the weapons and is trained and equipped to deliver them with F-16A/B fighter/bombers. No US military nuclear-capable aircraft are allowed to land at Incirlik or deploy to Incirlik currently and there are only a "handful" of US/NATO personnel at the base. NATO currently has plane to upgrade the B61-12 warheads to the smaller B61-3/4 model in the near future.

There are plenty of specific references in the post that will lead you to numerous citations. You really do have to put down what you're smoking and move away from Fox News.

But BTW, there have been numerous cases of Russian, Chinese, Iranian, and North Korean subs penetrating battle fleet defenses. Mostly they are advanced Kilo-class diesel electrics that can lie in relatively shallow water for months at a time. They delight in surfacing in the middle of carrier task forces or smaller battle fleets as a "harmless" show of strength. One senior Pentagon analyst recently suggested in testimony to Congress that aircraft carriers be painted bright yellow so people realize how vulnerable they are to both subs and to newly-deployed Chinese anti-carrier ballistic missiles.

Turkey has between 40 and 70 US-made B61-12 nuclear weapons.

Chris please provide the supporting documentation or better yet links that any President has authorized this completely under Turkish control. Nonsense! To do so would clearly be an Impeachable offense!

Since the 1960's (major cause of the Cuban Missile Crisis) we have had Military bases with Nuclear Weapons in Turkey but they are controlled by and protected by US Military at ALL TIMES!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_missile_crisis

The status of U.S. nuclear weapons in Turkey

http://thebulletin.org/web-edition/features/the-status-of-us-nuclear-weapons-turkey

Psst Please Note: The U. S. nuclear weapons in Turkey!

I have searched for your "References" and find nothing that says we have released ANY Nuclear Weapons to ANY Foriegn Country and IMHO to do so would be TREASON!

So Please Put Up Or Shut Up For Your Petty Belittlement's Mean Nothing and I refuse to allow Chicken Hawks To Spew Nonsense Unchallenged!

"There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them." ~George Orwell

Davefronorange........EXACTLY.

@MUW,

The weapons do not belong to the US. They belong to NATO. They just happen to be of US manufacture because both France and Britain have too few weapons to share. Just google "NATO nuclear wespons-sharing program" to see more than you would want. You will see that the US relinquiched control of 90-180 weapons to NATO. The US President really has no say-so.

There are NATO nukes in Belgium, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, and Turkey. This used to include Canada and Greece, but the two withdrew in 1984 and 2001 respectively when the former went nuclear-free and the latter wanted to cut the expenses of guarding the weapons under budget austerity. NATO even provides weapons to Britain since they have very few of their own.

But Turkey is very unique. When the US put nuclear-tipped Jupiter missiles in Turkey in the early 1960's (the event that actually precipitated) the US (and NATO) agreed to a dual-key control system. Both NATO and the US have valid keys to use the nukes. This was because NATO feared that the Jupiter missiles were located so close to the Turkish/Soviet border that their launch could be delayed unacceptably if keys had to be obtained from Washington in the event of nuclear war. The fact that Turks had the launch keys meant that Russia's arch-enemy, the Turks, had a first strike capability that could reach Moscow. That's why Kruschev was under so much pressure to put missiles in Cuba in retaliation. Part of the resolution of the Cuban Missile Crisis was to remove the Jupiter missiles (but not their warheads) from Turkey in return for the Soviet removal of missiles from Cuba. That the turks have launch keys to warheads is a holdover from that period.

But the Turks have become increasingly resistant to US infliuence in NATO because of their fear that the US knowingly provided a safe-haven to Kurds in Iraq. After the Second Gulf War when the "coalition" launched 100 strike sorties (gorillas) against Iraq without Turkish authorization, relations with the Turks over Incirlik AB have deteriorated. At this time no armed aircraft, or nuclear-capable aircraft, or strike aircraft from the US or NATO are allowed at Incirlik. Unarmed US weapons maintenance teams are only allowed access to the NATO nuclear weapons stored there under strict armed Turkish Air Force guard.

Here is a nice RAND Corporation assessment of the Incirlic situation: http://www.turkishpoliticsinaction.com/2008/06/rand-recommends-us-diversify-defense.html

The bottom line is the TAF can, without further authorization, use the tactical nukes stored at Incirlik AB without additional launch keys (codes.) They have control of the weapons, their own launch keys, and properly trained F-15 crews to do so. A handful of untrained weapons maintenance men cannot do anything to stop them. Asked about it, one TAF general replied that in "dire" situations it would be easier to ask for NATO's forgiveness than to obtain their permission. The reference was to a pre-emptive attack on Greece in the event that Cyprus boiled up again.

And BTW, your statement about the TAF RF-4E being shot down over Syrian airspace or having been over Syrian waters is completely wrong. When the incident happened, the RF-4E was under tactical control of both Adana radar and a UK radar station at Dhekelia AB on Cyprus. The tracking from both radars completely agreed on all maneuvers from the time the aircraft left Erhac AB until contact was lost when it was shot down. This tracking was presented to the full NATO consultancy the same day and absolutely shows that the RF-4E was over Turkish or international territory for its entire flight and crashed into international waters. Parts of the aircraft were found in international waters.

You seriously need to do some research other than hannity and nightmare on Fox.

Turkey's no chicken

Well The One Thing We Do Know is that all for the Wreckage was pulled out of Syria Waters and that Syria Gave Turkey Permission to recover the wreckage.

F4 jet shot down 'over Syrian territorial waters...Plane disappeared over eastern Mediterranean Sea near Syrian border...Syria claims it violated its airspace by 1 kilometre

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2166304/Search-teams-investigating-wreckage-Turkish-jet-shot-Syrian-forces-helmets--sign-pilots.html

Wreckage of downed Turkish jet found in Syrian waters:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/24/us-syria-crisis-jet-wreckage-idUSBRE85N05O20120624

So once again your "opinions" mean nothing!

Psst I noticed you still did not provide any supporting documentation about you claims pertaining to US nuclear weapons in Turkey.

Any Fly Boys in here want to set Chris-749391 straight on who controls what nuclear weapons in "ISLAMIC" Turkey?

All he seems to want or be able to do is post belittling silly nonsense and nonsensical opinions without any supporting provable facts (with links) and I'm done with trying to educate him!

“Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.” ~ George Orwell, 1984

Chris: You happen to be right. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing

Guess MWU wasn't willing to google......

Isn't Turkey in NATO? Look like the US is going to war again!

Psst Scar-481986 please read the Article before you post it!

.....Turkey are still hosting U.S. nuclear weapons as part of NATO's nuclear sharing policy Does Not Mean Turkey Controls Our Nuclear Weapons. It only means in the advent of a Nuclear War We have STATIONED Weapons in those country's!

The US insists that its forces control the weapons, and that no transfer of the nuclear bombs or control over them is intended "unless and until a decision were made to go to war, at which the NPT treaty would no longer be controlling", so there is no breach of the NPT

We control the BOMB and when / if they are used and we always have!

Nice try though at least you made an attempt even though your link actually makes my point and not Chris-749391 point....So Thanks!

Anyone taking bets Russia has painted a Bullseye on Turkey? Ah yes the beginning of World War III all in the name of al Qaeda! Seems fitting somehow considering 911!

Speaking of 911 and al Qaeda at least watch this new PBS Documentary....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1l-8PFk8j5I

“If you want to keep a secret, you must also hide it from yourself.” ~ George Orwell, 1984

I find it absolutely absurd that Turkey is sitting there trying to play the injured party in this. The Turkish government has been allowing the Syria "rebels" to base in Turkey and launch attacks against the Syrian army from their bases on Turkish soil. In addition, the Turkish government has been providing material support to these so-called rebels. If the Turkish government wants to be able to claim they are the injured party they need to stop supporting the "rebels" and stop allowing them to use Turkey as a base of operations. Until they do this they have no right to complain about mortars hitting inside the Turkish border when the Syrian army is going after "rebels" that are trying to retreat back to the safety of Turkish soil. For the same reasons, the Turkish government has no right to try and invoke Article 4 of the NATO treaty. In order to invoke this article Turkey would need to be a neutral party that was attacked without provocation. The Turkish government's allowing of the "rebels" to base in Turkey and launch attacks from Turkish soil makes them far from a neutral party in this conflict, it makes them an ally of the "rebels."

Syria dragging Turkey into the war would be a mistake, but literally only up to the point that Turkish troops entered Syria. At that time, one of Syria's allies would probably get the excuse to jump in and help Syria. And then it could escalate further.

But if Turkey simply responds, even with excessive force, with like methods to what Syria does to Turkey, I'll be no one else gets involved futher. Iran still hides its troops that it sends into the country. No doubt other hidden troops fighting with the rebels are there too. I'm willing to be that for every artillery shell that lands in Turkey, you can expect return massive return artillery fire.

I'm not saying I promote this, just saying how I see it. This is one of those wars that can easily spread, and in the worse case scenario, if the countries who want to interfere with Syria can't control themselves, it will.

"The people that stand around and watch it happen might just as well have helped the terrorist plant the bomb."........Jack Bauer (24)

davefromorange

Turkey is now experiencing what Israel has had to endure for years----mortars and projectiles bombarding civilian communities

I would agree except for one thing. Turkey has been arming the rebels, and hiding them in these cities as the rebels re-arm, recover, and plan their next attacks on Syria.

If Turkey wanted to stay out of it, they should have all along. I question their motives as Turkey has a very dark history with lots of religious intolerance and genocide of their own. They treat the Kurds like @!$%#; they can't vote, run for office, be in the military.

save the environment,

"tremendous amounts of innocents are being killed in Syria by Assad and I am glad if Turkey goes in and kick his ass."

Yes, and Turkey has been providing a safe haven for nearly 100,000 Syrian refugees at great expense to themselves. I don't think either Turkey or Syria wants war, but this could get out of control if the mortar attacks continue, especially if they kill more Turks. Erdogan has been talking tough about this, but he can only talk for so long before taking action, otherwise he will lose credibility.

The real problem is that Turkey is trying to get some stability on its border. That is what EVERY country wants, even the USA.

The Assad regime is allied with Iran. Turkey doesn't want this sort of thing on its border. Russia is allied with Syria and has a naval base at Targus that gives the Russian/Ukrainian Black Sea Fleet a second operating base in the event of hostilities. That base would be presumably used to open passages through the Bosporus and Dardenelles and give free access to the Black Sea Fleet. Turkey doesn't want this either.

The vast majority (over 80%) of the Syrian people are Sunnis and ethnically similar to the Turks. The Baathist Party is controlled by Alawites (a strange Shiite sect) and Christians who between them control over 80% of the country's wealth. Syria is, outside of Iraq which is rapidly becoming a Iranian puppet, thanks to Bush/Cheney, the only ally of Iran. It is also Iran's only free access through the Suez Canal into the Mediterranean. If Syria falls, Iran's access to the Med is "by invitation only" and there is no country who will invite them, butting a huge crimp in their gun smuggling operations.

The other big issue is that Syria has long been the man behind the green curtain in Lebanon. Syria has effectively destabilized the country and kept a former "Jewel of the Med" in complete chaos. If Assad falls this will create a power vacuum that will most likely be filled by terrorists. This puts complete chaos on Israel's northern border and adds to the instability along its southern border. Jordan is currently still in a wait and see mode, but it would really like to see some sort of end to its refugee problem and some stable borders with Israel as well.

There is a short domino line that leads to making Israel far less secure than any issue with Iran ever would. Israel has kinda created a whack-a-mole situation with a new crisis rearing its head every time they smack at another one. While they've put all their paranoid energies into Iran, Egypt has become questionable and now Syria is expoding. It would not be the least bit surprising for the last gasp of the Assad regime to be a missile attack, using chemical or bacteriological weapons, against Israel in a desparate attempt to save themselves.

There's no basis whatsoever - none - for saying Iraq is an "Iranian puppet".

@Travis,

Wrongo Bucko! "Iran–Iraq relations have flourished since 2005 by the exchange of high level visits: Iraqi PM Nouri al-Maliki makes frequent visits, along with Jalal Talabani visiting numerous times, to help boost bilateral cooperation in all fields. Iran plays an important role in the Iraqi reconstruction. Iran’s non-oil exports to Iraq were valued at $1.8 billion in 2007 and $2.3 billion in 2008. Each month, more than 40,000 Iranians visit Shiite holy sites such as Najaf and Karbala, buying religious souvenirs and supporting the economy through tourism. Iraq imports the following goods from Iran: cars, construction materials, medicine, fruits and spices, fish, air conditioners, office furniture, carpets and apparel. Basra alone imports $45 million of goods from Iran each year, including carpets, construction materials, fish and spices. Each day, 100 to 150 commercial trucks transport goods from Iran to Iraq through the nearby Shalamcheh border crossing (2008). As of January 2010, the two countries have signed over 100 economic and cooperation agreements. The volume of trade between Iran and Iraq is expected to double from $4 billion in 2009 to $8 billion in 2010. The main areas of trade between the two countries are the construction, food and industrial sectors."

In addition, Iraq allows Iranian cargo aircraft to fly directly from Iran to Syria, overflying Iraq, to resupply the Shiite Assad regime. They recently stopped direct North Korean Air Force flights from Iran to Syria but allowed them to resume selling arms to the Assad regime after Iran protested.

"No basis whatsoever"?????? What planet are you currently posting from? And BTW the "dependent alliance" (what diplomats call a puppet government) was forecast accurately during the First Gulf War by Colin Powell and GHW Bush's National Security team. So was the increasing Sunni insurgency and the partition of Kurdish areas.

You, too need to put down that beer and walk away from Fox News. We gave Iraq to Iran and it is looking more and more final every day.

So Iraq recieves Iranian diplomats, opens its airports to Iranian flights, and exchanges commercial goods with Iran...

In other words, Iraq has normal relations with Iran. Somewhat different than a "puppet regime" though.

Somewhat...

"US analysts have expressed concern that Iran is exploiting the vacuum left by the US withdrawal to bolster links with Iraq's Shiite-led government. The United States frequently accused Iran of arming Iraqi militias that attacked US forces when they were deployed there." You were likely one of the ones complaining that Iranian detonators and anti-tank mines and rockets were finding their way into the hands of Shiite militias and being used to attack American troops. There were numerous incidents involving Iranian Revolutionary Guards who had crossed into Iraq with Iraqi government assistance. A number of them were killed or captured. The Shiite militias that now run the country have been, all along supported by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard and specifically the Quds.

Your assertion that this was not happening shows an amazing degree of mis-information or an intentional desire to deceive people. Take your pic --- dumb or a liar. Either way, you just went on IGNORE.

Representative Peter King (R-NY) made frequent trips to Northern Ireland in the 1980's to meet with and express support for the Irish Republican Army and its armed resistance to British Occupation...

A U.S. Congressman supported the IRA - the IRA is in Northern Ireland - therefore Northern Ireland is a puppet regime of the United States.

Let me guess, Syria just accidentally keeps firing mortars into Turkey? Was that not their first excuse for this getting started?

MUW, you spend way too much time on this. Get a job or a girlfriend....or both. Relax. By the way,why don't you provide more relevant quotes?

"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed"......The Three Stooges

Hahahah...HONESTJ that's one of the better come back quotes! Personally I think Curly Howard was a very wise man! Moe on the other hand....Could have beaten either Obama or Romney!

But Jerome Lester Horowitz wouldn't have voted for him or either of them!

BTW Educating the Sheople about Our / Their Reality is a Duty to my Grandchildren....So What's your Excuse?

"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear."~ George Orwell

@MUW,

Wow are you mis-informed. The Turks use US-made AN/TPQ-36 and 37 "Firefinder" counter battery radar. They can see an incoming mortar shell from 50+km away and can target a return artillery shell within about 3 feet of the offending mortar tube. With mortars are hi-defilade artillery fire, counter battery artillery fire can actually be fired before the offending mortar shell or artillery round hits the ground.

When the Turks were fired on, they did not return fire. But they did know the exact coordinates of the mortar team that fired on them and the coordinated fell in the middle of a series of moprtar pits on a Syrian Army Base. (The Syrian government later admitted that this was the case.) The shells were intended to kill over 100 unarmed civilians fleeing toward a small Turkish town. Instead of hitting the refugees, they hiot the Turkish town.

The Turks were already pissed because the Syrians shot down an unarmed Turkish RF-4 flying over Turkish territory (though likely taking oblique photography of the Syrian border area.) The Syrians refused to help find the pilot and to even acknowledge the shootdown.

But did the Turks attack precipitously? NO The Turks consulted with the full NATO leadership and with the UN every step of the way. They obtained a vote of the full parliament for their actions despite already having the authority to conduct military operations in neighboring countries because of the Kurdish/Iraq situation. This is extremely important because the Turks have 40 or more US-made B61 tactical nuclear
bombs is at a Turkish air base. Turkey no longer permits U.S. aircraft there, but the nuclear bombs remain under Turkish control.

Sure Chris you are right "WE DID PROVIDE" the Turkish Army with Radar (BTW that we couldn't use to find Al Qaeda Mortar Teams In Iraq with because they are MOBILE Pop & Shoot Teams as shown in the Video Link I provided).

Syrians shot down an unarmed Turkish RF-4?

Jun 25, 2012 – Syria says the Turkish fighter jet shot down Friday was in Syrian ... It identified the downed plane as a Turkish RF-4 reconnaissance aircraft. ... was unarmed, not sending hostile signals, and identifiable as Turkish

www.cnn.com/2012/06/25/world/meast/turkey-syria.../index.html

So 3 months ago somebody shot down somebody else and yet who is to say where that aircraft was?

Also The FSA are admittedly fighting from and supported by the Turkish Government (and the CIA / SAS) and using secret funds OBAMA provided!

Al-Qaida fighters infiltrate Syria

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/nightly-news/48560104#48560104

Turkish Opposition Says Government Ignoring Presence of al-Qaida

http://www.voanews.com/content/turkey-syria-rebels-al-qaida/1495382.html

Again I provide Valid News Links supporting my positions you provide opinions!

Psst Turkey doesn't have ANY nuclear weapons ANYWHERE! We Do (as to the Russians in Syria)....Think about what that really means!

Is Assad really worth NYC DC LA Seattle Houston Atlanta Miami...etc etc etc ?

@MUW,

These mindless kinds of anti-Obama rants are exactly why Romney is losing so badly.

Psst Chris who's ranting against Obama? Once again I am just posting the truth that you seem way too willing to cover up Obama's Support of al Qaeda....Why is that?

Exclusive: Obama authorizes secret U.S. support for Syrian rebels

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/01/us-usa-syria-obama-order-idUSBRE8701OK20120801

Obama gives the 'secret' order for CIA to help Syrian rebels dispose of Assad's brutal regime

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2182427/Obama-authorizes-secret-support-Syrian-rebels.html

Syria rebels warn they will turn to Al-Qaeda if West fails them

http://rt.com/news/syria-al-qaeda-exlposives-insurgents-801/

Killing of Rebel With al Qaeda Links Opens Debate on Syrian...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/07/world/middleeast/killing-of-rebel-with-qaeda-links-opens-debate-on-syrian-opposition.html

Clinton: Arming Syrian rebels could help al Qaeda

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57386279/clinton-arming-syrian-rebels-could-help-al-qaeda/

Etc etc etc forever & ever! Once again Chris I post links and merely you post your silly opinions!

OK I'm done with you....

“Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind. ” ~ George Orwell

We sleep peaceably in our beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on our behalf.

George Orwell

You forgot to mention the Trilateral Commission, Yale's Skull and Bones club, and those damn Masons; their everywhere.

Chris, once again thank you for your well stated and well reasoned post. Like many of us reading your posts, we always learn something new. I think MUW must be off whatever medication he takes and it has obviously altered his sense of reality!

Folks...I Provide factual statements with supporting links Samson-962288 provides nothing but personal insults (which BTW are against the COH)....So you decide who has been "smoking weeds" and "creating conspiracy theories"!

Click on and read my links and then think about Samson's insults.....

“The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.” ~ George Orwell

I read the links and I agree with Samson. Twist a semi-legitimate news article anyway you want. It is always entertaining to read the posts by people who lavishly quote and then criticize the "Main Stain Media".

Speaking of conspiracy theories, what if the shelling into Turkey is actually the Syrian Army trying to desperately escalate the conflict to draw their ally Russia into the mix??

Samson, you must be one of the second graders I was referring to. MUW sounds intelligent, well prepared and has documented his very well formed thoughts, you on the other hand have absolutely no evidence at all but to throw cheap insults trying to kill MUW's character. It's easy to see you have nothing truthful nor substantial to say. Get off the crack pipe and go back to school, and also get off the food stamps the rest of America and myself are tired of paying for people like you.

Paul-349058 As one1000percentAmerican said to Samson-962288 you on the other hand have absolutely no evidence at all but to throw cheap insults....

Hmmm If I do say so I couldn't have said it better myself!

Psst I notice you didn't lavishly quote or provide any semi-legitimate news article at all?

So basically you are resting you statements merely upon you own merger opinion? Well here allow me to provide another lavishly quote....

“The formal scientific definition of theory is quite different from the everyday meaning of the word. It refers to a comprehensive explanation of some aspect of nature that is supported by a vast body of evidence.” ~ National Academy of Sciences

So your vast body of evidence is, using your own words, the "Main Stain Media"? People see construction trailers and when someone says they are weapons labs, half the world believes it. Learn to discern the crap we are fed on a daily basis by the "Main Stain Media" and draw your own conclusions. Your ability to quote other people proves nothing to me. Your theory that the rebels are shelling Turkey is interesting. But consider how much the rebels stand to lose if facts do point back to them shelling the refugees and families seeking shelter in Turkey. Certainly ASSad did not lose sleep shelling innocent Syrians, so why should he care if a few rounds drop in Turkey. Your False-Flag statement is also thought provoking. Just stop referencing less than credible you-tube videos as your evidence.

Paul-349058 Please refer to the end my post #19.3 about the Main Stain Media and once again Paul I provide supporting details you provide nothing but unsupported opinions!

“To see what is in front of one’s nose needs a constant struggle.” ~ George Orwell

Well MUW, I concede. To make an intelligent comment, a person needs to have supportive evidence.

I read you #19.3 post. I appreciate your links and information, it is helpful. However, the rebels have conducted a successful campaign so far. Not sure if I can get a newsclipping to support my belief, but ASSad has to be concerned. So you are saying that the rebels are desperate and need Turkey to get involved? Do the rebels feel the Russians are coming? You feel that NATO cannot wait to get involved in this mess? Does ASSad think he is losing and needs to ...... whatever, they can keep on killing each other for all I care.

Paul Who says the rebels have conducted a successful campaign so far?

A Judgement based upon what? How many women and children Al Qaeda has killed? How many Mortar Rounds they have fired into Turkey? Because the Wall Street Controlled Corporate Media Says Al Qaeda is Winning?

they can keep on killing each other for all I care. Agreed but right now We The People are allowing Obama (and the Russians know it) to support Al Qaeda in Libya & Syria and after 911 and the Murder of over 10,000 Americans there is absolutely No Excuse for that Act Of Treason!

Just because we claim we are the "Only Supper Power Does Not Make It True! One Miscalculation And........ WE WILL ALL LOSE!

That Is Why America Once Did Not Play Bind Mans Bluff With The Russians....Now We Do It Over Scum Like Assad!

PS Thank you for at least thinking about it.......

I like being a supper power!

Yawn. Get inside Iran and do what is needed

Psst super x.....

US official: Russia sends troops to Syria as peace hopes fade

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/06/15/12238938-us-official-russia-sends-troops-to-syria-as-peace-hopes-fade?lite

Syria Crisis: Russia Reportedly To Send Marines To Syria.....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/18/syria-crisis-russia-marines_n_1605205.html

Syria, Iran, Russia and China plan joint war games, Iranian news agency says

http://www.timesofisrael.com/iranian-news-agency-reports-joint-syria-iran-russia-and-china-wargames/

Russia and China vow to protect Syria from becoming another Libya

http://english.pravda.ru/hotspots/conflicts/25-06-2012/121471-russia_china_syria_libya-0/

So I hope you understand when I say that I really don't want to see World War III so that a bunch of Chicken Hawks in Washington DC and on Wall Street can make a few Trillion Dollars more Profit!

“All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting.” ~ George Orwell

MUW, those are really old links, going back to June.

The Syrians and Russians denied the Iranian story about joint military exercises.

http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/06/19/221583.html

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/syria-denies-it-will-host-military-exercises-with-russia-china-iran/article4347098/

Of course, Al Arabiya is the voice of the rebels in Saudi Arabia, but it is worth noting.

Perry: This fantastic sci-fi movie that you're describing, what channel is it on?

Perry, this may be the only time I agree with one1000. You seem to think you're from a different planet, brought here by UFO's.

I think the Iranian view is a little bit different than you suppose. You can easily read Iranian newspapers' online English versions to see for yourself.

They are indeed sick and tired of the US sanctions. Many items are in short supply and the currency is inflating wildly. The US dollar is becoming the fiat currency of Iran as a result. Instead of their religious leaders, their daily lives are being dominated by George Washington's Mona Lisa smile.

But the Iranians are also being fed two critical lines from their government. 1) That Israel does not have the military ability to conduct meaningful strikes against Iran. This is true. The IDF is only capable of striking Iran with nukes on missiles to do any real damage. Even then, it is much more likely that the IDF would strike at oil facilities and population centers instead of nuclear facilities. 2) That the US military is shackled by its entanglements with Europe and Gulf oil supplies as well as the possibility of raising the hackles of Russian and China.

The Iranians are pretty certain that Israel will only attack if Iran does something really stupid (though they don't really say what) and that the US will not do anything to endanger the supply of oil to Europe and China. And the nuclear sites are do incredibly hardened that they expect oil facilities and cities to be the targets if there is a war with Israel and the US. What they do fear the most is that Israel will attack pre-emptively based on bad information (or wistful thinking) and drag the US into the resulting conflict.

Iranians are much more familiar with the region than most Americans. They know that Iran is a much larger country than Israel with a much larger economy (even with the sanctions). a larger military, and a much larger, more homogeneous, population. (25% of Israeli citizens are Arabs with dubious loyalty to the Israeli state.) They also know that any attack route from Israel to Iran would take them over countries that would immediately report their presence to Iran.

I'm not saying that I agree with the Iranian view, just that they are not exactly cowering in fear either.

@Chris

That is extremely well said. Creating the Great Satan to induce fear into the hearts and minds of Iranians is not only a way for the extreme regime of Iran to control their people by bringing them together against a common enemy, but, also keeps them from staging a coup or an uprising of any kind. The Iranian people do not want war. Neither does the average Israeli citizen. What is tripping Ahmadenijad up is the fact that Iranian people are accually very very smart and can see into Ahmadenijad's nonsense and aren't buying it. Thus not that fearful at all. Let's hope Romney doesn't get elected and succumbs to his Wall Street mentors and Defense Contractor co-investors and creates another Gulf of Tonkin incident. Well said, chris.

Syria has not agreed to anything. You just believe a couple of media reports that don't even quote anybody in the Syrian government. They have NOT taken any responsibility.

one1000percentAmerican

There is a understanding that the Syrian's are responsible. They have repeatedly apologized to the Turks and Assad ordered no fixed wing or chopper flights within 10KM ( 6 mi ) of the Turkish boarder AFTER this incident.

I think there is a lot of over thought about who is responsible for what in this little war. It is almost imposable that mortar rounds are not going to go into Turkey If Syrian Gov forces are firing on rebel positions close to the boarder. OFC, they have to fire on the rebels to kill them or get them to flee their positions.

Could this be some over blown trickery by Iran, or the US or Russia? Heck yeah, but 2 things come to mind.

#1. It dose not matter if there is some form of trickery going on. Either way we can expect this to blowup into a war and one that will kill thousands if not more.

#2. From a tactical stand point, Iran dose not want to go head to head with Turkey or the US if they do not have to. Turkey alone would wipe the floor with Iran.

Heck, might as well add number 3 in there.

#3. Russia and China DO NOT want war with the US just yet. Neither are ready for that and if it dose happen, it will likely turn into, at the vary least, a limited exchange of nuclear missiles or tactical nuclear weapons.

If there is anyone, anyone at all ( including the US ) pulling covert strings, they are taking a huge risk in terms of war. I do not yet see a high level playing field of trickery. Some trickery, yes but not raising to the level of trying to draw one of the most powerful military in that area ( Turkey ) into a war that Syria would lose before the Russians could even help.

@QE137,

Based on about ten years as an intelligence analyst, I would think that what will happen is that Turkey will eventually drive in as far as Alepo and Targus on the Syrian coast. They will then establish a "neutral buffer zone" that includes both Alepo and Targus. They would establish a no-fly zone, defended with radar and missiles over the buffer zone. UN or NATO observers would then be invited to monitor the border of the buffer zone with the remainder of Syria and the Turkish Army would withdraw. This gives the Syrians rebels an operating base with some degree of safety, a commercial/communications center, and a port. It would also allow the Turks to "repatriate" the over a hundred thousand refugees and turn their care over to the Syrian rebels and the UN.

This would solve a number of problems: a) move the fighting back away from their border with Syria, b) reduce the cost of supporting a huge refugee population, c) allow support for the Syrian rebels to come in without transiting Turkey, d) remove the Russian naval base at Targus that has long been a thorn in Turkey's side and e) assure that the Baathist Party and its Iranian supporters would be removed from power on Turkey's border.

I don't care. Let Turkey kick the crap out of Syria and we stay out for a change. This must just give the 3000 Generals we have a headache!

@George,

There is almost no belief that the rebels or al-Quaeda as the GOP chickenhawks contend shelled Turkish territory. The Turks used counterbattery radar to pinpoint the sources of both attacks (accurate to about 3 feet) and they both came from Syrian Army bases. This information was presented to the full NATO leadership and complete concurrence obtained before they returned fire the first time. This information was also presented to the UN before the second incident. Normally when counterbattery radar picks up incoming mortar or artillery shells, reply fire is initiated before the offending shells even hit the ground. Turkey showed great restraint in not immediately returning fire and seeking NATO consultation first. After the second incident the Turkish government sought approval from their parliament to conduct cross-border military operations against Syria even though technically they already had such authorization because of the situation Kurds in Iraq. And all of this followed the Syrian shootdown of a TAF RF-4E and the loss of two pilots over international waters that really, really pissed off the Turks. (The Fox contention that the F-4 was armed and over Syrian territory is complete BS. The F-4 was under tactical control of both Turkish radar from its home base and a UK NATO controller on Cyprus. Both sets of radar tracks agreed exactly. The jet was never over Syrian territiry or territorial waters.)

Thanks Paul.

Give it up and vote for Romney. Yawn!

Assad didn't say Syria was involved. Stop telling lies.

There's no reason why Syria would want to get Turkey involved. Syria already has its hands full. On the other hand, who would benefit the most if Turkey intervened...hmm, let me guess...the rebels maybe? Bingo!!!

Obviously the rebels are responsible for the mortar shellings. Like my grandfather would say...duh!!!

@one1000percentAmerican

I agree that the rebels would have the obvious motive. But, facts are facts and the rebels didn't do it. They probably wish they'd have thought of it perhaps. Certainly one can be reflexively convinced who the culprit is given on the theory of asking which side has motive and much to gain. But, knowing the Syrians did it begs the question of "why?" I've only offered an answer to that question.

Perry-2713557 What facts are you talking about? Care to provide a link or three to your information source?

One of the links I provided above was the Free Syria Army (Al Qaeda) showing off their "Mortars", and about their "Moving" from Turkey into Syria (with our help), and also another link is the Syria Ambassador To The UN putting lie to the claim Syria has admitted they fire those rounds in the first place.

So please provide the basis of your theory?

Otherwise it sounds like nothing more than another Disinformation & Propaganda Campaign by the Main Stain Media trying to start World War III with Syria / Iran / Russia / China / Brazil....And God Only Knows Who Else!

Russia warns West over Syria after Obama threats

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/21/us-syria-crisis-idUSBRE8610SH20120821

Psst speaking of which....

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Americans' distrust in the media hit a new high this year, with 60%

http://www.gallup.com/poll/157589/distrust-media-hits-new-high.aspx

It would only take something somewhat significant to tip the scales in Obama's favour. Nothing drastic. All he would have to do is man up and admit his forecast of Dec 2014 for withdrawal from Afghanistan was premature and he is revising it to a far earlier date. That is all it would take. Romney then would look like the warmongering fear-biter that he is. While Obama can use it to say he is more concerned about Americans needlessly in harms way. It's the President who always has the advantage of making change to fit his agendas. Romney can't change anything. Obama would hail as the great peacemaker. Mission accomplished.

Yeah, like he was hailed for being a hero killing Bin Laden. Meanwhile he attempts to sue the Seal that wrote the book and leaves the doctor that help find Bin Laden to rot in a Pakistan prison. Some hero. No more "Dumb / Dumber 2012.

Sometimes a few must be sacrificed for the good of the many.

.

Obama / Biden in 2012.

...

...and sometimes for the good of one.

10,000 Americans Murdered By Al Qaeda since 911 and yet Obama admittedly provides Al Qaeda with "Secret Support" in Syria, Libya and God Only Knows Where Else!

Forget Obama / Biden in 2012....Obama (Bush & Cheney) To The Hague For War Crimes & Crimes Against Humanity in 2013!

@MUW,

Currently Obama is being given a 83.6% chance of winning on November 6th. They gives Romney less than a 17% chance --- better than 4-to-1 odds against. If the election were held today, the odds would soar to 93.9% odds, better than 12-to-1 odds.

I would think you would be well-served to get your anger (and your invented "Fox facts") under control and prepare for four more years of Obama followed by eight years of Hillary. Romney is toast and even the GOP believes that it can only win by cheating and that the brand has been destroyed by the Tea Party. McCain did badly against Obama, but at least McCain actually led in the campaign for four days (the four immediately after he named Palin, but before anyone had heard her speak) but Romoney has not even been close for a single minute of the campaign and is continuing to collapse faster than the traitor McCain did.

LOL - "thrill up their leg",,,lol,,, i really like that. At least we agree on that part.

Cheney shoots for the face.