No kidding. He would have been burned at the stake or dragged through the streets. His house would have been burned down. That's the way this Organization works. Only reason they don't do it now is because the World would not put up with it. Violation? Who violated whom for thousands of years full of deceit, tyranny to control the masses. What ever happened that "The Truth Shall set you free". Oh that's right there is NO such thing. Too bad followers NEVER take off those "Rose Colored Glasses."

Do they do background checks in the Vatican? Would this guy get the same sentance if he worked for a private family as a butler? I doubt it.

Alan,

"No kidding. He would have been burned at the stake or dragged through the streets. His house would have been burned down. That's the way this Organization works."

Haven't you ever heard of "tough love"? That's what many people are advocating these days. They say we are too soft on our children.

Mickey,

"Haven't you ever heard of "tough love"?"

What is that supposed to mean? Are you "The Parent" to the Church or something? Sounds like your an excuse maker. Never make excuses for others that should be accountable for their OWN actions. I would say its Tough alright. It's just hard for people to fathom that someone will put on blinders whenever something they believe in is actually a ruse. Some of us were not born yesterday.

Alan,

"Haven't you ever heard of "tough love"?"

What is that supposed to mean? Are you "The Parent" to the Church or something?"

My! You are hostile, aren't you?! And no sense of humor, either. Do you actually think I was advocating that people be burnt at the stake, dragged through the streets, etc. Do you know what a joke is?

WHY does the Pope need a butler? Is the "vicar of Christ" giving an example of Jesus who had 12 butlers apostles to care for him?

Mickey,

Hostile? Never murdered, killed, tortured, imposed my will upon everyone or perpetuated a ruse to the masses. Best advice I can give everyone is to live your life and NOT trod upon others. Not say 15 "Hail Mary's" or say your sorry for the crimes you committed to another man and "It's a miracle" I have been forgiven. Those be the facts, period.

Seems more like a case of a whistle-blower......and he should have received whistle-blower protection.

“Now that we have a sentence, the pope will evaluate whether to pardon him."

Guess there's no separation of church and state over there... like the poop will really pardon someone for exposing "his" own people.

Alan,

"Best advice I can give everyone is to live your life and NOT trod upon others."

Good advice! That's how I try to live my life. Is that how you try to live yours or is that just advice you give to others? But, you know, you can follow that advice and still say 15 "Hail Mary's" and go to confession. It's not an either/or proposition.

You must be kidding? You evidently believe this guy should have been tried in the first place. He is no different than Julian Assange by doing Catholics a service by opening up the secret world of the Vatican.

This butler should have been given a medal for bringing the truth to the light of day. The Catholic Church has been in denial since its inception and continues to this day. The Church has pilfered, murdered and taken from others under the guise of "In the name of God" rhetoric. The have completely destroyed other races of people under God's will horse crap and have never apologized or rescinded the papal bulls they used to perpetrate crimes against humanity. The Church will not admit their collaboration with the Nazis during WWII in the crimes against Jews not to mention the destruction they brought to Africa and the North American Continent.

When will the Catholic Church admit they were wrong and resend all of these bull@!$%# papal bulls from the 15th Century that brought about the total destruction of races of people? Of course the popes cannot do any wrong and never make bad decisions. Anyone who buys into this mentality deserves all that they get from the Church. I for one would never patronize one of their hospitals nor colleges for this reason. They are a cult with blind followers by the masses. Yes, pun intended.

So is the pope being inquired about those corruption allegations?

had they done an HONEST background check on the POPE he would have been rejected... being as he was a NAZI in his earlier years.. and knew about the thousands of pedophile priests in hiding.

He'll never work again as a butler...

Why should he be confined at all? If anything, he will hopefully lead us all to the truth. The church has always been very corrupt. The Vatican like every other government has secrets the faithful should know about. This man had real courage to undertake a task he knew could lead to severe punishment. H did it anyway... This is true moral courage. I will pray for him to the one true God....Truth be told, I believe he would have done it at any time in history. The fact that the church I was raised in has committed such atrocites it a personal shame to me. It is high time some real "housecleaning" was done. I say good luck, Godspeed and lets not let this be the end of this story.

The pope should be the one going to prison for life for covering up pedophilia crimes against children, and then approving of it.

End all church and religions around the globe and free the minds of the sheeple.

Haven't anyone ever noticed that the bigger church and religions become, the bigger the poverty rate in the world grows bigger.

Screw the pope.

Screw the Catholic Church.

Yes, the church is corrupt and has been since its formation, because of the power that accrues to the hierarchy of the church. If the teachings of Christ are "TRUTH", most of the people associated with the "power structure" are going to HELL anyway.

If those same teachings are a philosopy to live by, and not a true religion, there is no difference between the Church" and any other autocratic political party. As such, openness is essential, and they should lose the tax advantages that allow the Church to amass great wealth on the backs of its followers.

if you steal from thieves, are you a thief?

The butler did it! He's the patsy for all the corruption and pedophilia in the RCC...

He should be confined to a monastery somewhere. But he should feel lucky this is not 500 years ago because back then you didn't mess with the Pope.

Even today you still don't mess with the pope. There are two popes actually. The white pope as they are referred which we all know about and then there is the black pope which most don't know about. The black popes are jesuits and they hide within the vatican and nobody knows who they are except for a few. The black pope is the one in control and they call the shots and the vatican follows their orders. Jesuits can be evil people. They lie, manipulate and in words can have people poisoned.

Alan shut the F up, this is a thief and in your Muslim country they would cut off his hands and stone him Alan. Confined to his apartment is crap, he needs a place with big bubba that's wanting his tail for breakfast. They went very easy on this trashy thief, because alot of the notes are private to just the Pope from sick and dieing followers, not to be seen by others.

Hello folks, it is a breath of fresh air to see humanity wake up to the one of the most vile and corrupt institutions on the planet. If a devil exists it exists in the Vatican! They have plundered, pillaged and raped the world over for centuries. Just like the corrupt Federal Reserve we need to remove these despicable stains from humanity!

I guess I was seeing beyond what the man actually did and the words "the pope's butler" stood out in my mind. Priests and nuns must take a vow of celibacy and poverty to focus their lives on prayer yet the captain of the ship has a butler. The Vatican is a very wealthy place filled with spledor I hear. Didn't Christ himself go into the temple and overturn the tables of the money lenders and say "this shall be a house of prayer" thus highlighting the simplicity of faith....it doesn't require butlers.

Shouldn't "NONE PROFIT" organizations, be public record? Christ tout us to forgive. Shouldn't we do the same? If your a huge public profile, and preach the word of God, then you should NOT have skeletons of shame in your closet. You will be judged by the public, so keep a very clean house. The Vatican has a LOT to HIDE, here's your proof. I wish it wan't so, but it is.

he is much like a secret service agent protecting the President, vice president, speaker of the house; he is sworn to secrecy; even though his Faith caused him to oppose certain changes, he violated his trust; after his pardon, he will probably be demoted to the Vatican security staff, although most are Swiss, many are from other Catholic nationality's; it appears he was opposed to some off the liberal movement in the church, such as married priests, there is a major change now occurring in the church.

Vaticanistan is a neat little country! Sure, it's a dictatorship, but it's clean and nearly crime-free! The laws are a little silly, but the culture is fascinating!

Actually all you silly people read too much Dan Brown remember Galileo was confined to a very nice apartment at the Castel San Angelo and allowed all the visitors he wanted. Secondly if the Church had killed as many people as you say that would have been twice the population of Europe at the time. Who would be left to talk about it? Third Opus Dei is basically a mens devotion because St Josemaria Escrivia was trying to get men to man up to their maritial vows and take care of their families. Saints seem to need to do that periodically since that is also the focus of the Knights of Columbus really men do you need your own saint every 50 yrs or so just to live up to your vows. by the way his best writing came out in 1931 so the devotion is nowhere near as old as they made it seem. In 1959 all you needed to join was Baptism, Confirmation and $5. I didn't have the $5. Silly people there is only one pope voted on by the Cardinals after the death of the pope. There has never been a female pope because there has never been a female priest. There are some Patriachs not aligned with Rome mostly Greek Russian and from the mid-east, there are also some Patriachs aligned with Rome from the same areas using the same liturgies. Btw there are more than 21 seperate liturgies in use in the Catholic Church at this time including the English Book of Common Prayer.

Silly people there are no big secrets. Want to know what we believe it is online? If they want all of us to read the catechism and all the documents from VaticanII they have to make it accesible. And over the next year that is exactly what they want us to do. You can find online at the USCCB website the catechism including the 26 paragraphs it takes to explain the word catholic in the Nicene Creed. is there, Papal writings in seven languages are there. I suggest Humanae Vitae, Evangelium Vitae and Mulieres Dignitatum Then you will understand the current problems the Church is having with the HHS mandate. Just call it up and click on the language of your choice. Second to find out how badly your school teachers have lied to you go to pavethewayfoundation.org and you can find out why I think 44 Jewish people my age claim Castel Gondolfo the pope's summer residence as their place of birth.

Of course he was found guilty, one dosen't disclose the SECRETS of the Roman Catholic Church. Threr would go their trickeries and lies that they have perpetrated on thousands, albeit, millions. Don't mess with the Pope? Com' on you guys, Who's REALLY in control and in command of this world? It's GOD if you let him be in your hearts.

lonereb,

"Silly people there are no big secrets. Want to know what we believe it is online?"

You are right. There is a ton of information on line about the Catholic Church. You can read every Papal encyclical that has ever been written, too, at the Vatican's web site at

http://www.vatican.va/phome_en.htm

So he gets convicted of larceny, the stealing of papers. However, I have to agree with his defense attorney. There was no larceny, no taking. Basically, what he did was corporate espionage, except he did not steal any corporate secret or any tangible information of monetary value. Thus, I can't see how any legal court outside of the Vatican's court would consider this a taking, much less a taking worthy of 18 months confinement. Disloyalty by an employee is not a crime. But then again, who would expect the Catholic Church to analyze the world and life in an empirical, honest way?

The Church like the Government protect their own, Just like the pedophiles.

So many lost liberals with issues here, hard to pick what one to mentally council. Did some of your liberals get touched in a bad way hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I bet not one of your here has, and you voice your vile.

Please excuse my use of your i meant you, i am liberally educated from our obuma school systems. HA HA HA HA HA stupid liberals lol

You know you can hit the reply button instead of starting a new comment, if you're going to address me directly.

But I am replying to you directly and I don't think the Holy See has anything to do with the pedophile controversy.

Pedophilia is not unique to any faith or ethnicity, it's a common thing that is pervasivie in almost all cultures. And it's covered up all the time too. It's not unique to the Catholic priests. Take a look at the high school gym teachers and others in close contact with kids. It's just as big a problem with them as it is with anyone else.

The fact is, where ever you find children in a vulnerable situation, you will find pedophiles. It's nothing new and if you are a parent, all you can do is try to be aware of it and try to prevent it. Listen to your children if they complain. But it's not unique to a few Catholic Priests.

And the tendancy to try to cover it up is nothing new either and not unique to the Catholic church. Although that is addressed more appropriately these days, its not unique to Catholics and only naive bigots pursue that idea.

johnbarker,

"And the tendancy to try to cover it up is nothing new either and not unique to the Catholic church. Although that is addressed more appropriately these days, its not unique to Catholics and only naive bigots pursue that idea."

That's true, and everyone on Newsvine who brings up the pedophilia issue whenever the Catholic Church is mentioned knows it. It isn't so much that they really give a damn about children or pedophiles as it is that they have some ulterior motive for bring it up. They hate the Catholic Church or they hate religion in general or, in the case of the news media, they love money, and nothing sells like a good, juicy sex scandal. People just eat that sort of thing up. I personally get sick and tired of hearing about it.

In summary, that whole catholic pedophila thing is just another way to persecute a religion.

But the fact is, pedophilia is not unique to catholics. Look around.

And yes, Mickey, you are spot on with that observation about the antogonistic button pushers.

Joanie: Please, don't bother to let facts get in your way. The Church, like many other institutions, schools, scouts, sports, families did, in the past, protect itself rather than the children, but that is in the past. Today, offending priests ARE defrocked and turned over to civil authorities. In fact, so much that at least some innocent priests have been accused and punished unjustly.

Institutions tend to rot. But in this case the institution was rotten from the onset.

johnbarker

But I am replying to you directly and I don't think the Holy See has anything to do with the pedophile controversy.

Mmmm the Holy See may not be involved now... but...

You might want to look at the German cover-up and the involvement of some high ranking church leaders. One name that comes to mind is Archbishop Joseph Ratzinger. Then there was Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger who did not defrock a pedophile priest who molested up to 200 deaf boys... I don't See a lot of Holy in those actions.

I love the catholic appologists that say "well of course you bring up the pedophillia scandal" as if it was a minor celrical error. Millions of children around the world were either directly molested or put in reach of known pedo's by the church's action of shuffle the deck and hide the guilty. If the church had been an international daycare center with this scandal it would be gone and all of the top level would be in jail, which btw is where Joe the Ratt belongs.

Even setting aside the pedo scandle (and yes other institutions have had scandles recently but as of yet the catholic church has had the biggest) the church is an out-dated, self-serving, and frankly evil institution. Rowanda, the massacures there were done with the full authority of the local bishops and the war criminal priests where then hid in the vatican where a few remain to this day avioding justice. Telling poor uneducated people in africa durring the worst of the AIDS crissis that condom use is the cause of aids.

Fow over 1000 years this benighted and archaic institution has done it's best to shackle mankind and keep us in the dark ages the sooner it finishes it's death throes the better for us all.

JOHNBARKER.. in 90% of pedophilias from other churchesmand such.. HAVE BEEN ARRESTED AND IN JAIL...

Joanie24 you have issues, the priest in the U.S. are so liberalized that they brought this "i deserve" attitude in to the churches here, there are many good priests here but when your in a fight against evil, evil can penetrate the most vulnerable liberal area's of the church to corrupt the foundation of the churches in the U.S. on purpose. This can sway followers from God, especially the young. That's not fare to God in any way. The church is only human believe it or not, they learn just like we learn, if you want to go back we may find in your family history someone that kept slaves or persecuted another. Life is a learning lesson that we build on, no different then any other man, leave perfection up to God, He is perfection alone and no other. The church has many good priest, pastors and ministers that want to save souls and let you know of God and his love. I hope you find the light and what your looking for, this anger will only destroy you not guide you.

How about the invasion of Spain by the Moors when the Muslims beheaded anybody that wasn't a "person of the book" Or the muslim mongol invasion of Poland in the 13th century when they practically wiped out the entire generation of males captured and raped all the women. We still have cute little Polish kids whose parents trace their ancestry back over a thousand years whose kids when they are born look more like the guy who owns the Chinese laundry than their parents. Or the multiple invasions by the Ottoman Turks also muslim of Albania and Romania which was finally stopped by that Romanian hero Vlad Dracula. Blame the discovery of the Americas on the muslims closing the Silk Road because Columbus was looking for a way to India by sea. Thats why he called the people Indians. As far as pedophilia the Boy Scouts have been covering that up for years and it finally broke this week.

As opposed to atheism and secularism and paganism. Ancient Rome, Pol Pot, Hitler, Idi Amin, Stalin, Mao, Attilla, Genghis Khan, etc. If you don't have the fear of spending eternity in Hell why not go for all the sex, power and money and you can get in this life?

Some people, like Shalom2U, can't control themselves so they need a fairy tale warden to control them.

beverlyn in the 19 centuries of so called religious wars 4.5 million people have been killed. In the 20th century in the name of secularism, socialism and nationalism 20 million were killed in WW I, 50 Million in WW II, 60 million between 1917 and 1992 in the Soviet Union, 70 to 200 million in Chins they aren't sure, half the population of Cambodia. Just who are the violent ones?

As a Christian I am glad that someone took the opportunity that he had to expose the truth of the Catholic church with legal documentation rather than just conjecture and hearsay. May the Catholic leaders pay for their crimes. Yes. Interfering with justice is a crime. Harboring criminals is a crime. Abusing women and children is a crime. God has used servants for his glory to right wrongs throughout Biblical history. I see this as God's work.

The Catholic religion operates completely contradictory to the Bible. The Pope has servants? He lives in a palace of marble and gold like the Jewish Rabbi's Jesus counted as hypocrites. Jesus only had friends and relied upon the generosity of others he taught. They carried no money with them. I firmly believe that "the organized religion" that people refer to as a reason not to believe that Jesus is their savior is the corrupt Catholic religion. This is a complete shame because there would be far more Christian adults who were not so disenchanted by religion that they disregard the Christ of the Bible.

I, like many, DO believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit but religion is a man made institution to connect with God. His son is His way to connect with us. I encourage all people to find a Bible based church and you will be amazed by the experience. You will find anger, bitterness, loneliness and emptyness gone from your life.

Alice Cooper, the heavy metal and fright night entertainer, is a Christian. YouTube the interview. Who knows who else is. Not only is it wise to be a Christian but it is also cool ;).

"find a Bible based church"?

Have you read the Bible? God approves of slaves, killing, rape, burnings, death at every turn.

I believe in the kindness and caring of Jesus, but the Bible is simply a man written document to support the existence of slaves, killing, rape, burnings, death, war and all other man made desires.

Try finding truth and humanity.

johnbarker,

"I bet you 100 bucks, the Pope will send this guy to some monastry somewhere. The Vatican has the right to do what ever they want with this prisoner."

Since it sounds to me like you are Catholic, I'm sure you are aware that that is exactly what the Church used to do with recalcitrant priests: Off to the monastery with you!

We are not talking about other Religions. You act like because someone does something worse it is okay. I'm not betting a penny what this Organization might do. Send it to the Church. They are going to need it. If this guy exposed The Church for what it really is I congratulate him. If I could I would serve half his sentence for him. Being that I am not even of this faith I would still do it because he is a hero to many. Your statement of "The Vatican has the right to do what ever they want with this prisoner" shows me exactly what you and the Catholic Church is all about. Everyone knows it except those who refuse to see any facts whatsoever.

Alan,

"Being that I am not even of this faith I would still do it because he is a hero to many."

I think it goes without saying that you are not Catholic, but I'll bet Julian Assange is also your "hero". Am I right?

Could you tell I am a Catholic? Yes that is true.

The best thing that could happen to this guy is incarceration in a christian monastary.

God help him in a real prison as the person who violated the Holy See's trust.

It is a virtual death sentance for this butler if he is sent out to the general prison mechanism.

Since this person was so close to the Pope I would expect some protection against a virtual death sentance.

This just shows that you are so full of BS it is unbelievable. Where have I ever said anything about Julian Assange and what does he have to do with the Catholic Church? Maybe you just can't handle the truth?

johnbarker,

"Could you tell I am a Catholic?"

It was just a guess, but I figured it was a safe one since not many non-Catholics, with the exception of me and maybe a few others, would come to the defense of the Catholic Church these days, which is what you did. Just about everyone else seems to think the Catholic Church is the daughter of Satan.

Alan,

"Where have I ever said anything about Julian Assange and what does he have to do with the Catholic Church?"

I did not say you said anything about Assange, but you seem to love "whistle blowers". You said Gabriele is your "hero".

Well excuse me that this Organization has been exposed once again. Corruption, deceit, tyranny, outright murder in their past History and so many other things swept right under the rug. How do you feel about that? Just keep everything nice and tidy and lets not worry about all that truth? The only thing Gabriele did was bring out information that only hurts the Church. They can put him behind bars for the rest of his life if they wish. They rule The Vatican. They rule the Catholic Masses. Thank goodness this is the 21st Century or half the World would be put to death, just because they could.

Natural comaprison with Julian Assange, another person publishing confidential information illegally.

I dont't think the Pope has much influence on that Assange ordeal though haha :)

I doubt if Assange is even catholic, but he might find refuge with Catholic protectors if he accepted Christ as his saviour.

That maybe the only hope Assange has actually. That sex offense allegation will be a lingering issue with Catholics though, but I tend to think that was trumped up.

Alan,

"Corruption, deceit, tyranny, outright murder in their past History and so many other things swept right under the rug."

"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone!" Remember that one? It was what Jesus said when the Jews wanted to stone the adultress to death. Are you the only one who is without sin? Have you never done anything wrong in your life? You sound self-righteous to me.

Anyway, Assange has nothing to do with this issue. But another idiot who might be able to take shelter under the umbrella of the Catholic Church if willing to accept Christ.

But no kidding kids, get off that pedophile Catholic thing. Its not a Catholic problem it's a general social problem in most cultures and not unique to Catholics.

Mickey and John Barker,

"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone!" Remember that one? It was what Jesus said when the Jews wanted to stone the adultress to death. Are you the only one who is without sin? Have you never done anything wrong in your life? You sound self-righteous to me."

I am with plenty of sin if that's what you wish to call it. I am far from perfect as you would see it. I also do not pretend everything is "Rosy" and look through "Rose Colored Glasses" No one especially myself said The Catholic Church is the only Organization that has faults and crimes committed. Yes it's a general social problem and The World is NOT a nice place to live in. Everyone has their own ideas on how everyone else should live their lives with plenty of hatred, bigotry, power hungry people and a lot of BS to go around. Since we are talking about the butler and The Catholic Church that's the subject we are discussing at this moment. It's your right to believe in Faith (Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence) if you wish.

Alan,

"I also do not pretend everything is "Rosy" and look through "Rose Colored Glasses""

That's a reasonable post. I don't look at life through rose colored glasses, either, but I try not to blow things out of proportion, realizing that there are numerous sides to every issue. It's only too easy to take one side of an issue and select only those facts that support the side you have taken and exaggerate them out of all reasonable proportion. Many people do that. By the way, I'm not Catholic and don't belong to any religious denomination whatsoever, but neither am I hostile toward Catholicism or any other religion.

Well, well, well. Guess what, another cover up by the Pope. Thank you to the Butler for trying to show what injustice the higher up does. Why didn't the priests who molested children get a sentence, or the Pope dethroned for letting the misdoings to continue time after time. What a shame. He doesn't deserve to be called a Pope. Who the hell does he think he is-we pay for him to live like a King and he lets his people get away with wrong misdoings-something wrong here. I guess there will be a place in hell for him (Pope that is) and it will be well deserved.

Mickey,

What facts do you suggest? What have I exaggerated? Do you mean the "Storied" past centuries of the Catholic church? The beatings, torture, murder of humans for their cause? The hiding of crimes committed in the past or present? What does it matter if it happened yesterday or 500 years ago. It still continues on what they can get away with in the 21st century. If you condone such actions then it will go on. You don't need to be hostile to see such organized deceit and speak out. I can not believe someone would put up with such malarkey. Am I saying anyone that belongs is evil. Absolutely not! The World is full of evil people and they don't have to belong to a church. I thank you for your posts and don't take this as a slap towards you. Hopefully people can find a way to get along with one another.

"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone!" Aren't these guys supposed to be 'without sin'? Oh no. They're only human! But, still you listen to them?

"It's only too easy to take one side of an issue and select only those facts that support the side you have taken and exaggerate them out of all reasonable proportion." 2 sides to every story? What side would condone such acts? You think the children seduced these priests? Are you serious?

Yes, it is happening, and has been happening all over the world far too long! And, it's all wrong! But, you idiots still listen to these pompous a$$holes that can't even live by their own rules?!?! You really think they are holy, they have some connection with God?!?!?! Forgive them, get along with them? I forgive no man that sticks his dick where it don't belong!!! They are fkg dogs!

The fact that you people still believe in that church is insane! As long as you forgive them, still believe in them, and give them your money, they have no reason to change!

To the butler Gabriele: If you take something that doesn't belong to you without consent from the owner, You sir are a thief no matter how much you are in denial. Do what you did working for the President and see what happens.

Alan,

Look, the Roman Catholic Church has been around for nearly 2,000 years now, and it has weathered much more serious scandals than you can ever imagine. It has seen the Protestant rebellion in the 16th. century, the barbarian invasions of Europe by Attila the Hun, the bubonic plague of the Middle Ages, the Enlightenment, with Voltaire vowing to destroy the Catholic Church, the French Revolution and every social upheaval of the 19th. century, including the confiscation of the Papal Estates by the Italian government. Guess what! The Catholic Church is still here. It is the oldest still surviving institution in the history of Europe, and something tells me it is going to still be here when you and I are long dead and gone. Apparently, it was built to last. Do you seriously believe that "speaking out" is going to make any difference?

No, I don't! The masses are obviously thoroughly brain washed! And, we thought extremists were only in the middle east!

As far as this case goes this is the nation of the Vatican States not the Church. Just how long would you get for a sentence if you were the presidents butler and you did that? And just what kind of confinement? The more you attack my Church the more dedicated to it this part of the masses gets. I have seen what happens when people like you get control. 73 years ago you invaded my homeland and because you thought we were superstitious and sub-human you killed 1.8 million of my people including 2935 priests and consecrated religious. I do not trust people from western European backgrounds.

Mickey, Some people are oblivious. Just because something lasts does not make it just, fair, truthful and you so rightly pointed out some of it's failings. I can't help thinking you make it sound like a good thing which I might add everyone has their right to an opinion right or wrong. People are so easily lead astray. It happens around the World every single day on drugs, embezzlement, religion, sects, cults, Political rhetoric by just about anyone running for office, touts and just plain old deceitful people. Your probably right on my posts on these boards that millions of Catholics won't even read nor care one way or another. I may not sway a single human being even if everything I have factually stated is the truth beyond a doubt. You can't say I didn't try to point out to others that something is really amiss on this supposed "God Fearing" Organization and has been going on for 2,000 years. If people want to belong to Them that is their right. I myself chose to Not condone the actions of the Catholic Church. No one gets a pass for crimes against Humanity. The Roman Empire didn't last forever either. Fear is the greatest power leaders can have to control the masses. When you get the power then you can just do as you wish to anyone at anytime and have impunity which this Church has had forever.

Alan,

"The Roman Empire didn't last forever either."

You're right about that, Alan, but it did last for about 800 years, and in some respects, at least, the Roman Catholic Church can be viewed as an extension of the Roman Empire from which it borrowed a great deal in terms of its organization. At any rate, I was not apologizing for the Catholic Church, I was merely pointing out its longevity. It has been around a very long time, and I suspect it will be around a long time still, at least until the last Catholic stops believing and leaves, but since there are more than a billion Catholics, I would not expect that to occur soon.

johnbaker... I beleive you protest to much . yea pedophlia has been around a long time and other religions do it but it has happened in the catholic church for longer and it was not only a slap in the face to many but also a big betrayal. I get the sense you do not believe it is a problem like it realy never existed but if you beileve that ......do you also believe that gumdops and lollypops fall out of the sky and money falls out of your a$$... because if you do you really need some help very quickly for both problems .

When an employee steals it isn't a patriotic act it is just plain theft. No hero there just a stupid person.

I wonder if the Pope reads his fan mail, actually. Lets see. "Holy See, Rome, Italy" How could that letter get lost?

It's a little like writing to Santa Clause only the Pope is actually a real person.

I wonder if you stamp "confidential" on the envelope that they would save it for the Pope himself :)

Choctawed <><><> Some years ago, I read about an unsesonably cold winter in Rome. According to the newspaper article I read, the cold had hit hard the very poorest of Rome and the article said Gypsy children in the city were especially hard hit. I independantly checked out the truth of this article, then I sent some money to a young Gypsy student in Rome with whom I had been chatting with in a chat room. He emailed me that he had gotten the money and gave me a breakdown on how it had been spent. It went exclusively to children whose mothers made the final decision. Mostly it went to warm clothing and diapers.

Actually save the stamp and send him an e-mail.

Quit living in the past. We are more mature now.

Shalom2U >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I gave you a thumbs up, but, boy, is it gonna hit the fan !!! I pray 4U, but others are going to prey 4U.

Shalom - comment #9 - Jesus might have founded His Church, but it quickly became corrupted (and has stayed that way) when it was annexed by secular government, in violation of Jesus' teachings.

Well IMHO you don't act like it. Mature people can deal with differences of opinion without trashing other peoples beliefs. Mature people do not demand others pay for prescriptions that cost $4 month at wal-mart so they can screw around without having to pay the piper. And mature people do not dress up like body parts in public and the mis name the body part.

3rdviewfromleft post #9.3

Jesus might have founded His Church, but it quickly became corrupted (and has stayed that way) when it was annexed by secular government, in violation of Jesus' teachings.

So according to YOU (a human creature), contrary to Matthew 6: 18 "the gates of the netherworld prevailed against it." So, according to YOU (a human creature), Jesus (a/k/a God) was wrong. I respectfully disagree. Read what I said about what the Church teaches about Faith and Morals.

Shalom2U - Read my post, as many times as it takes, until you understand. Jesus said His kingdom was not of this world. Once the church became involved in earthly government, violating His teachings, it became corrupted.

3rdviewfromleft I read your post. Where in your posts did you say Jesus said His Kingdom was not of this world? In my post about MT 16: 13 - 20 Jesus is talking about His Church, not His Kingdom. Read MT 16: 17 - 20.

Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Jesus clearly said the gates of the netherworld would never prevail against the Church's teaching on Faith and Morals, in particular what human actions are sinful and what human actions are not sinful ("Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven"). So any reasonable conclusion is that according to YOU (a human creature), contrary to Matthew 6: 18 "the gates of the netherworld prevailed against the Church's Teaching on Faith and Morals." So, according to YOU (a human creature), Jesus (a/k/a God) was wrong. I respectfully disagree.

Please provide your evidence there is a 'God'!

Jan in this case we are talking history not theology. Your historical facts suck. If your historical knowledge is that bad why should I believe anything else you say? And if you throw the thirty years war at me expect to get the Swedish invasion of neutral Poland back as an answer.

Jan,

"Please provide your evidence there is a 'God'!"

Try reading the Summa Theologica by Saint Thomas Aquinas. He gives five proofs for the existence of God in it. I know it is a big book and not easy reading, but I think you can handle it if you try really hard.

Jan-804443 post #10.1

Please provide your evidence there is a 'God'!

If there is an explanation that caused the following that isn't the Supernatural please let me know what it is:

1. Padre Pio's ability to read the undisclosed sins of those going to him in the Sacrament of Confession.
2. The stigmata of Padre Pio and St. Francis of Assisi.
3. St. Bernadette being told during an apparition to dig for water in the ground. A spring came out that stands to this day in Lourdes. Unexplained medical cures occurred there shortly after the spring started and some continue on to this day.
4. The miracles that happened after people prayed to those who have died to aid in their cause of canonization and such miracles have been documented by the Vatican.
5. The fact that the Catholic Church has existed in its structure for nearly 2000 years. What other hierarchal institution has? It was also predicted to last and so far has come true: See Mt. 16 :13-20
6. People have been possessed by Demons. The movie the Exorcist was based on true story about a boy in St. Louis. Some power always beats the demon. That power is unquestionably God.
7. Movement of the Sun that was documented by so many at Fatima Portugal in 1917 during a Marian Apparitition. 70,000 saw it. How did this movement of the sun happen?
8. The tilma of Juan Diego has a picture of Our Lady of Guadalupe that has been preserved without decay for over 500 years? How? Please reproduce it, so far no one has or can.
9. Blessed Mother Theresa of Calcutta's order is flourishing--yet she never had more than the clothes on her back as her possession. How did she accomplish all that?
10. Mother Angelica, the main founder of the cable channel EWTN, legs were miraculously cured. Her leg braces were no longer needed. One day, she needed $600,000 to pay for her first television transmitter. She had no money. At the time it was going to be repossessed a gentleman read one of her religious tracts she wrote years earlier and asked if he could donate $600,000--the exact amount she needed for the transmitter. She asked if he could wire the money. He did.

This is just scratching the surface of Divine Events in human and salvation history. Any one of these should give pause to the unbeliever. The fact that there are so many means that any one using their intellect would have to come to the conclusion that something supernatural exists to cause these events--nothing else can explain it. If it isn't God causing these events, what is? Until you give me an explanation for each one the belief that there is no God is incredibly dumb. It is also incredibly dumb because this God who is all-knowing and all-powerful loves you beyond all human understanding. He will intercede in your life to get you through the trials of life through prayer, if you desire to live a life based on His rules (called conversion) and you are prepared to suffer for Him just as he did at Calvary for you. No sin is greater than God's mercy.As for hell, the movie The Exorcist was based on a true story about a boy in St. Louis in 1949. Unexplainable events (from a logical, scientific point of view) happened. What caused those events if it wasn't demonic possession and the Priest, through the power of God, exorcising the demon from the boy's body? You may be a proud atheist, but whether God, the Devil, heaven or Hell actually exist or not has zero dependence on your belief that they don't exist.
Read also about near death experience: Heaven and Hell have both been described by people who have experienced them--the descriptions of both are very similar.

johnbarker - - - - - - Maybe the Pope would write back to you and tell you to walk the two blocks to the gym instead of driving.

Bicycles are becoming a lot more popular in California haha :). But it is a crime that the refineries are screwing up with dropping oil prices.

Oil Refinieries are establishing a natural monopoly, kids. It should be a concern. They are naming their own prices in California right now and Gasoline prices are completely out of control.

Even though oil prices are dropping and somewhat stabilized, California is suffering huge inflation in gasoline prices because of failed manufacturing facilities.

This is because of old refoineries that are poorly maintained and has actually increased the profit margin of oil companies by the drop in supply. But the fact is, the retailers that are not limited by gasoline supplies are inflating the price to the tolerable ceiling.

No kidding kids, this inflation in gasoline prices in California in the last few days reminds of the Enron rip off when they were artificially inflating the price of electricty.

johnbarker - comment #11 - now, you know the Catholic Cult has better things to do than worry about gas prices in California. They're too busy trying to make sure that 2 men can't marry.

And, too busy making sure football players get touchdowns!

Get rid of Governor Moonbeam it is a matter of your faith in liberal politics and tree huggers not my faith in Christ. BTW I have no intention of paying for bicycle paths on the West Coast like the Representative with the funny bowtie from a state north of you wants the rest of the country to do.

JohnBarker, If you are serious, Please provide your evidence that anyone can talk directly to God!

Hey John that Big Bang theory you are spouting one of the people who got the nobel prize was a Catholic priest. He originally proposed it and you are still trying to figure it out. Try this the big bang nothing and then an explosion of everexpanding light. Genesis 1 Let there be light.

Eric try doing that at the White House and see how long you spend at Danbury federal correction facility.

The pedophiles are under the jurisdiction of the various states the crimes were committed in and the Vatican has stated it is up to them to try them. So if you have a problem see your local DA.

You mean the child who was a boy scout when the Nazi's came to power with the anti-Nazi father who had to keep the family moving to stay out of trouble with the government. The seven southern German provinces the Catholic ones did not vote for the nazis check it out. They came to power on the strength of the votes of the northern provinces.

The pope will probably pardon him but he had to be tried and sentenced first. This is a government not a church in this matter. As far as what you think you know about the wartime record of the Catholic Church check out pavethewayfoundation.org. The research was done by a Jewish couple from New York. BTW John Paul II believed in this guy who wanted to ask the new pope if he could retire instead he got elected.

In that case complain to the DA in your jurisdiction because the Vatican has said that is who has to handle those cases because that is where it happened.

Lower level? You mean it's a Caste System? Well it may include folks from here to there but NOT me! Are you saying some nice Catholic will murder him? Obviously "God" is NOT helping him since he is going to prison.

Alan, I am not sure I followed your question, but the guy who deceived the Pope? He has no hope in most American prisons. That's on the the level with child molestors.

The only hope this guy has is if the Pope sentances him to a monastry out of reach of the politics. But he should not just pardon him for that kind of breach of trust.

Yep. Sort of like stealing 1000 Baby Ruth candy bars to show they were poisoned. What is worse? Exposing the Church or stealing the documents? Who in the Church is convicted or going to prison? Oh. No one. I thought perpetuating a fraud for self gain was a crime too. To hide facts and sweep under the rug of past and present crimes is criminal. Where are the trials for that? None! Sorry but the proof is in the pudding for everyone to see.

John you are a dork, in the eyes of sane people. And, now I believe all you Roman Catholics are just plain ignorant! Can't you people think for yourselves?

Apparently they can't handle the truth. He didn't make up anything.

You might to want to research the article a little more before you make your agressive comments.

The guy was convicted in a Vatican court. Go from there kid and get back to us. :)

But the last I heard, the actual sentance is pending.

Really john, you ought to move over there with the other pompous a$$es!