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Subscribe to RSSTourism in Egypt dropped after the Arab Spring, when tourists became worried about the security situation and stopped coming. The Egyptian government has opened the pyramid Kefra to visitors as part of an effort to invite the world back to the pharaohs. NBC's Stephanie Gosk reports.
An Egyptian school teacher was fired on Wednesday for cutting the hair of two 12-year-old girl pupils because they were not wearing Islamic headscarves, an act condemned as an illegal violation of human rights by a leading woman's organization.
Iman Abu Bakr Kilany, a science teacher who wears a full veil, said she had been dismissed from her school in the southern town of Luxor following complaints by relatives of the girls - the only two in her class who did not wear headscarves.
"It started as a joke with the girls when I told them I would cut their hair if they don't wear headscarves," Kilany told Reuters by telephone. " Last Wednesday, one of my boy students reminded me and gave me scissors from his school bag and I used them and cut small amounts of their hair."
Egypt's liberals and Islamists clash in violent protests
The father of the girls, Berbesh Khairi El-Rawi, told The Associated Press that the teacher forced the two girls to stand with their hands above their heads for two hours and then cut their hair in the school.
He told The Associated Press that he filed a complaint after the Oct. 10 incident with the prosecutor's office in Luxor.
Though apparently a symbolic act, the incident was seen as the latest example of hardline Muslims trying to impose their values on others in Egypt - a country now governed by Islamists.
"Without exaggeration, we feel that many of the hardline Islamists feel empowered by the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood to power to impose their strict views on society," said human rights activist Gamal Eid.
Protesters clash over Egypt leader's first 100 days
Many Egyptian women wear the headscarf, but the country's Islamic scholars typically say it should only be out of free choice. That view is shared by the Muslim Brotherhood - the group which propelled President Mohamed Mursi to power in June.
Kilany said she had asked all her girl students to put on the headscarf, saying it was required for girls older than 10 to do so - a view not shared by many Muslims. "Our religious traditions makes it obligatory," she said.
The National Council For Women (NCW) condemned Kilany in a statement on Wednesday, saying her act "violates Egyptian law, the rights of humans and the rights of children.”
Watch World News videos on NBCNews.com
While Mursi and his administration have repeatedly said they will not seek to impose strict Islamic codes on Egypt, the rise to prominence of an array of Islamist groups is alarming more secular-minded Egyptians and the country's sizeable Christian minority.
In one headline-grabbing incident, a young man out with his fiancée was stabbed to death by three Islamist zealots in Suez in July. The killers were sent to 15 years in jail last month.
Kilany said she would be reassigned to a role in the bureaucracy and docked one month's salary.
Reuters and The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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There's an oxymoron if I ever heard one.
Rarely is the first post such a good one arguesforsport!
This teacher did not get near the punishment she deserved. She was docked one month's pay and given a different job in the school bureaucracy. This is a slap on the wrist at best. She should have just been fired and possibly even faced some jail or community service for what she did. She was trying to impose her own religious views on her students. The fact that a male student reminded her of her statement and gave her the scissors to use shows just how much this teacher was poisoning the minds of her students. I doubt that male student would have even thought about this being an issue if the teacher had not made it one. Now there is at least one more Egyptian male who thinks that women should be subservient and hide themselves behind scarves and veils because of this teacher. This type of intolerance should not be tolerated and if the Egyptian government is serious about demonstrating that it is going to take a hard stance and maintain it's secular nature then the punishment for these types of acts must be more meaningful than losing a months pay and getting a new job assignment. I would not be surprised to learn that this teacher's new job in the bureaucracy came with a raise to make up for the loss of the month's wages.
Prejudice is prejudice; she's wrong for cutting their hair- but a lot of people posting here are equally wrong for assuming anyone wearing a veil is by definition incapable of teaching science.
If religion disqualified any educator, few in this country would be able to home school.
American textbooks, especially in benighted places dominated by religious fanatics- Texas, for example- would also be rather different, if likely far more accurate without mention of the idiocy so ironically called "intelligent design".
Maybe we could just turn over the entire planetary educational process to atheists.....or, maybe we should learn not to judge without first gaining knowledge of the topic under discussion- and some tolerance for different cultures.
Have to ask this question...if this was such a joke by their "teacher", why was the "teacher" so influenced by a student???
Nice to see that the poison that's spoon fed to the children in Egyptian schools has been ingested and moves on to infect others.
Vermillion Sky.....you could turn almost anything into a political rant...seriously dude...get a life!!
And sitting on the House Committee of science and technology is Ted "legitamate rape" Akins and Mr Broun who said the earth is 6,000 years old and evolution comes from the pit of hell. Religous idiots come in all denominations.
JS in SD, why are you being so hard on the Egyptian government on the way they handled the situation when here in the US we have teachers sitting in offices or at home collecting full Union pay for misdeeds (even for phyical abuse) instead of being fired so our school systems' could hire new & better teachers.
I see Egypt going through many changes, both good & bad, as every new government experiences in creating a better form for society. Freedom & equality doesn't come easy.
at least they weren't stoned for hung in the public square from a crane!
So much for kids being kids....
This is why no religion should be allowed to have a say in law.
Got that right!
What, they should have just worn the headscarf. Come on, it's part of their culture, they need to respect it.
when you are joking you don't follow through with the action you are joking about. i'm not sure this teacher is qualified for her position with a limited understanding of those kind of subtle social interactions. religion is something personal, what you do or don't do regarding religion is not within the bounds of a public educator.
on another note there was a fantastic oxymoron in the article, the country's sizeable christian minority.
It is good that this teacher was fired for cutting the hair of the 2 girl students. Starting at a young age, girls should know that they have choices. Egypt is not a cold climate country. Even if there is air conditioning in the classrooms, to be covered up all day from head to foot has to be uncomfortable. Hopefully this case will set an example. It is good that the women in such oppressive countries are standing up for their rights and human rights.
When a conservative Muslim invades anothers human rights ( cutting someones hair, raping, killing, chopping off their limbs etc) There is a whole group of people that say "look how bad MOdern American conservative Christians and Jews are too--don't judge us!" Well, Conservative Christians and Jews aren't my cup of tea but I very very rarely see them physically assaulting another human--yes they stupid things and burn holy books but they don't tend to kill other people the way Muslims do.
Modern Conservative Christians and Jews believe that people can "be saved" and only God has a right to take life. Why do Muslims think they have a right to kill people and play God?
When I ask them this they will start to say things like " Well, lets talk about Christian history and all the people killed in the name of God!" I want to focus on why in the 21st century these people are acting like animals, shooting little girls, dismembering young boys and blowing up hotels and restaurants. sick sick sick
Allen-2635884 - I could see VS's response coming - It's like trying to reason with a brick.
Kallie - to paraphrase your post - you said COnservative Christians and Jews in this country dont physically assault other human beings. Well depending how you define phyiscal assualt you may be technically correct but like the Muslim extremists in Egypt they spend an awful lot of time and effort imposing their views (or trying to) on others - examples - the Baptists who picket funerals, the Catholic Church who thinks they should impose thier birth control views on the rest of us, the folks who think sc ience includes creationism. I would alos contend that a lot of the violence against gays is by many conservative Christians.
Look at the conservative/fundamentalists in most religions - they are often the less educated, rural folks (or thats where the toe hold starts). THese folks are coopted by those who lust for power and they succeed where folks feel unempowered. AN example - American Muslims dont go around attacking girls, forcing the veil on the women, few of them are terrorists and those that are tend to be kids and we all know kids are easily influenced.
ANd before I hear - I do type poorly so I am sorry about that.
Great. She'll be reassigned to a bureacracy job, where she can force her own views into new school rules.
Kallie, I think that blowing up abortion clinics and killing the doctors who work there would qualify as physical assaults.
Live how you want (this is a free country), but keep your religious beliefs at home --- where they belong.
25Walker........this has nothing to do with comfort, the head scarves are meant to keep women in their place as inferior to men, that is a basic part of most middle east religions,including Christianity.
Ever try to hold your hands above your head for two hours? This abusive b!tch didn't get nearly the repercussions she deserves.
Yeah, holding your hands above your head for two hours is equivelant to water boarding...pffftt. Pressing sarcasm button...now.
Menace,
No one said anything about Waterboarding (though I am not sure where your sarcasm is pointed). Though I would say that it is pretty damn painful after 10 or 15 minutes. Arms are designed to have blood IN them.
Menace, what an idiotic comment. These are schoolgirls, not seasoned terrorist combatants.
What is it with teachers (even in this country) abusing their students?!?! This woman is clearly unfit to be around children. If she's THAT adherent to her faith, maybe she should do her students a favor and STAY HOME!
BYE!!!!
She needs to lose her job!
Sky... The teacher lost her job. Can you understand your thinking is muddled?
Isn't radical Muslin religion just the coolest thing? Lets all go out after school and kill a few infidels, OK?? Then maybe we can move to Dearborn, Michigan wher the Muslims run the town....wheeeeeeeeee!!
takenaka...she lost her TEACHING job.... was NOT fired as she should have been.
Christians used to do the same and worse. Thank god religions now must bow to law.
Theocracy or Secularism
You decide...
I think right-wing Christian extremists are just as bad. Maybe even worse, because they know better.
Welcome to Egypt where women now don't have any more the same freedoms as before. Muslim Brotherhood/Nour Salafists are ruling the roost (thanks to Obama adm.)-girls get shorn of their tresses if they don't wear scarves- TV people are veiled if women- stewardesses wear the veil- laws bending... girls as young as 13-14 yrs old for matrimony- when female spouses die- their husbands allowed to have coitus non-interruptus with the cadavers. Women (girls)without a family male escort can be accosted and if something happens to them when alone- they are the guilty party. If you are a Christian Copt- your life is in danger if you don't obey the Sharia backing medieval religious zealots. If you disagree- any salafist/MB member can legally bring you to court for almost any reason. Egypt- where Cleopatra once ruled - has regressed now so far and so fast. Didn;t Obama accuse Mitt Romney wanting females in his government in MA asking for 'binders' (folios of applicants)- time to hold Obama responsible for putting Egyptian women in 'blinders' (veils)and a status regressus.
Egyptian women were in veils before the revolution, you twit. Egyptian women figured prominently in the revolution. You conveniently left out the fact that the fathers of these younger girls were outraged at the treatment they received at the hands of this older teacher. Who was in office, funding Mbarak, before Obama?
Amused, moron, Egyptian women wore the veils before VOLUNTARILY. When Mubarak was trying to keep Egypt secular. Now religious police attack women in the streets as they did when Iran went loony with Islam.
Were these girls even Muslim? You don't even know, do you? Go wear a full veil--you don't value others' freedom so you don't deserve it yourself.
rachel, there is NO religious police in Egypt. You are confusing Egypt with Saudi Arabia, or simply making up stories from your imagination.
ssm - There ARE religious police in muslim countries who abide by their extremist faction of their religious society and try to enforce those islamist rules on everyone. There is religious police in Iran, I am not sure if you knew, as well as some gulf countries, and increasingly becoming more powerful in SE Asia and parts of Africa.
ssm: oh yeah? http://vinienco.com/2012/07/04/egyptian-student-killed-religious-police-walking-fiance-public/ and http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/3/12/30428/Business/Economy/Egypt-tourism-officials-fear-rise-of-morality-poli.aspx
That's what we need, more friggin' idiots who don't know anything posting about f-all.
rachel-3673200....wore the veils before VOLUNTARILY.....seriously?? You really believe that crap?? Wear the veil or be stoned to death is more like it....or be raped and then stoned for being a whore....either way works for these Neanderthals.
Yes, how about our good ally and Bushies best buddies the Saudis, where women are beaten for not wearing a scarf, being with a male non-family member or letting a school full of girls be burnt to death rather than escape without the proper attire
"Thanks to president obama" he had nothing to do with Eygpt, the people did it on their own with the help of the Brotherhood. Give credit where credit is do. Our sin is the money our government pay yearly to keep them a so call allies.
Some of ya'll should maybe try to find out what people who actually live there have to say about 'volantary' or 'involuntary' wearing of veils before making claims about a country of which you obviously know next to nothing about.
@DKJ - Obama was even criticized by the right for NOT getting involved in the Arab Spring! We did the right thing by staying out of it.
We knew that the Muslim Brotherhood was the driving force behind the uprising, and we wanted nothing to do with helping them to gain power. Same thing in Libya. Can't blame this one on Obama (although, I'm sure some will try).
NurseJohn, you mean the Saudi King Obama bowed to?
Kat--didn't get involved? Hahahahahahaha! Obama PAID for it!
I hope people note that the authorities took the appropriate action and fired this teacher.
Not really... she is being docked one month's salary and reassigned to a "role in the bureaucracy."
....bureaucracy, where policy is made.
she got a different job...she was NOT fired
Vermillion Sky.....stop making crap up. Obama did not back up the group that took over Egypt for the very reason that it was never clear exactly who would wind up in control.
It is becoming more and more apparent that hardline (radical) Muslims need to get their own planet and move to it very soon if they do not want to start the 'war between good and evil'.
With any luck, they'll take the evangelical Christians with them. Just as looney, and even more dangerous because they already live among us.
No kidding!!! darned Christians are always involved in some crazy schitt like starting soup kitchens for the poor and volunteering at hospitals and visiting / assisting shut-ins and collecting useless stuff like clothing and furniture for the poor and donating money to various causes and starting shelters for the homeless and providing gifts at Christmas for children of incarcerated parents (Christmas - Christian holiday - whowouldathunk) and providing free or low cost health services and who knows what else???
Don't forget to return your paid holiday money at Christmas to your boss or at least volunteer to work that day.
yeah Chef....and how many of those soup kitchens, hospitals, shelters, etc are run by muslims?
NONE!
None that I'm aware of I'm remiss in not mentioning all of the fine Jewish organizations who not only run similar charities and fundraisers but also show up at Christian run organizations on Christian holidays to relieve the workers so that they may have their holiday with their families.
Have a great night, Fed. :)
you too....dont work too hard tonight!
Go see the movie ARGO!!! Very reminiscent of Libya fiasco! Except that was CARTER's screw up and nobody was BRUTALLY SODOMIZED!!!!!
The radical Muslims and the more extreme evangelical Christians share a lot. They share the same childish belief in sky pixies, they're both convinced that every word of their holy books is true, no matter how patently absurd, they're both sure that their imaginary friend is real, while everyone else's isn't, they're both sure that everyone who isn't addled enough to buy their fairy tales is doomed to eternal damnation, and they're both intent on relentllessly cramming their nonsense down everyone else's throat. They're barely distinguishable.
Muslim charity is done with less grandstanding, so it's not surprising that you're unaware of it. Even so, Al Capone ran soup kitchens. That didn't change what he was.
How would anyone know to approach these charities if they are unaware of them??? These "charities" that you speak of...who benefits from them and do they provide assistance to all who are in need or just certain people??? Please provide links.
Are you saying Big Al was more charitable than muslims???
Come on...the article has to do with an instructor who should be trusted with the safety of the children in their care and instead made these kids the object of ridicule in front of their classmates and physically abused them at the slight goading of another student. You have nothing to say about any of this???
***yawn***
Derail fail.
Please remind me, how much foreign aid do we give Egypt?
You sound like an idiot when you say things like "...how much did Obama give them...". It's as if you don't know that every sitting president, Republican and Democrat has given heavily to their government. Maybe you don't know that. If that's the case, maybe you should educate yourself on the matter before discussing it. Just a thought.
We gave Mubarak money to not start a war with Israel. To fight terrorism. He kept the Brotherhood at bay. Note that Obama has not put any strings on the money HE gives. OUR money.
I bet the teacher didn't think she'd get in trouble. Glad to see they're still able to fight this here. Hope it doesn't go away.
She was docked one month's salary and given another job... in the government.
Aka the Muslim Brotherhood.
How's it going, Scremmie???!
Don't worry Obama will step in and get her job back.Muslem Brotherhood is muslem obamas frieds.
You're dumb.
Sure seems like it though huh, Alias? The Arab "Spring" that everywhere proved a boon for the Islamists, the f'ed up attack on our embassy with the MURDER of our ambassador--and no real action by Obama's government, acceptance of the immigration of Somalis, the worst jihadi group, Obama saying he would support the UN making blasphemy against Islam (ALONE of all the world's religions), apology for the film we had nothing to do with...
Rachel, your post is not dumb. You have some facts and articulate opinions. Sunjka has neither and doesn't spell well either.
I must challenge you on one point though; no where can I find a statement made by someone in the Obama administration that directly supports a UN resolution regarding blasphemy.
First, I'm on the side of "fire the b*tch and send her to jail."
Second, though, please respect the fact that there are non-English speakers who do read NBCNews and post on these boards. Gasp - even people in other countries who have access to the internet do so. When someone misspells words AND uses odd grammar, it's a safe bet -- not always good, but safe -- that it might be a non-native speaker. Please welcome them to the international discussion as opposed to calling them names for not spelling every English word correctly.
That's really the last reason I called sunjka dumb. It really wasn't a reason at all until I went back later and re-read the post that I noticed the atrocious spelling. I am happy however to admit that it was childish of me to state that as one of my reasons.
Alias, I don't have time to sort out now but read through: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matt-vespa/2012/09/26/pbs-newshour-omits-obamas-support-blasphemy-law
I hope the people who read this and condemn this action also think about the religious right here in the US who are actually attempting to insert some of the same type of controls into our laws.
I don't subscribe to any specific flavor of religion. So from my perspective I see many in this country doing the same but here, many who call themselves 'Christian' aren't any better. The only difference comes when the 'act' or law conforms with your specific set of beliefs.
So if you condemn this sort of action, look in the mirror and make sure you would also condemn it here. Otherwise you are nothing more than a hypocrite.
dsb, Instead of talking about your conspiracy fantasies, give us an example of these "same type of controls" you speak of? I'm not religious in any way, but I don't share your paranoia regarding those that are. If you're talking about the breakaway Amish sect that cut the hair and beards of other Amish men and women recently, they are in jail and I have not seen anybody coming out in support for them. If your talking about government supplying abortions with tax dollars, that's strictly an example of government being involved in something it should not be. I think it's the right of every woman when it comes to abortion decisions, but abortion, especially for convenience which is what the vast majority of abortions are performed for, should never be something paid for with my tax dollars. I do think the more abortions liberals have, the better for the future of this country. The White House is full of red diaper babies right now.
dsb, don't be silly.
Oh, honestly, isn't it about time that you Muslim apologists give up the ghost and just admit that these people are screwed up without trying to say "yes, but, the Christians..."? And if this act had been committed by a Christian, you'd be screaming for blood instead of making excuses. Imagine if some of you had been alive prior to World War II. I can just hear you say, "Why are you condemning the Nazis, Christians don't like Jews either, etc., etc., etc." Why don't you and your ilk look in the mirror and stop making excuses for these medieval murderers, misogynists, and terrorists. And like Lanikai Ron, I'm not religious either, so don't came back at me with some gobbledy-gook about Christianity. The world would be far more sane without any imaginary sky fairies.
dsb is right, no one should be able to impose, force, or coerce another to follow their own religious beliefs, be it Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Rastafarianism, Paganism, Athiestism, witchcraft, voodoo or anything else. This is covered by freedom of religion and the SEPARATION of Church and State.
rachel(bunch-o-numbers) Using the blaze as a source(below) shows just how right wing your views are, fox would be a better source
dsb is right; no religion should be imposing any laws in any country.
You have the right to 'believe' whatever you want; you do not have the right to impose your beliefs on others. And if you don't think people in this country are trying to push their religion into law, you really need to change the channel occasionally.
Plainoldstupidity: most mainstream news sites are left-wing. Grow up and learn to judge what's true and what's not instead of trying to censor with "right-wing."
rachel............I comment here sometimes because I like to comment here, but if you think I only read here you are sadly mistaken, Drudge Report, The Blaze, American Thinker, Addicting Info, The Huffington Post, BBC, The Jerusalem Post, Haaretz, Cnn, Fox, here obviously(Not all every day, I just don't have that kind of time). Plus links other people post, The Blaze is as slanted to the right as Addicting Info is slanted to the left, I wouldn't use either to try support my position.
No, Stupid, WHEN YOU READ SOMETHING, BACK IT UP WITH MORE RESEARCH. In the interest of time I posted a link. Up to you to look further. I'm NOT your mother. Sheesh. And quit voting for yourself.
coming to America, thanks to Obama and Holder tolerance of Muslim crap like immigration of Muslims and: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/virginia-teacher-charged-with-assault-girls-hand-cut-in-forced-islamic-hand-sign-drill/#
I think this is a whole cultural precedent not the doing of two men. It would be so nice if we could blame the problems of an entire nation on a few people but when it comes to cultural norms I really think our government has nothing to do with it.
All that is in regards to the "tolerance" so prevalent in our culture today.
This new tolerance is something entirely different from it's true definition.
Tolerance used to mean that while you disagreed with someone you allowed them their views. Now tolerance means you forfeit your views in the face of opposition in an attempt to appease.
I don't stand behind appeasement tolerance but I do stand behind the respect for others sort.
Why should the world care? The whole arab/muslim world is made up of over zealous religious retards. They are all going to kill each other until none are left. The problem with that is they will take a few of us "infidels" with them through chickensht attacks on civilians, women and children. They are the most backward people in the world and hold on to silly beliefs that affect their daily lives and the people round them like sitting on a carpet and praying to a wall. To all the christians, you are no different, just not quite as violent as muslims are today. Religious nonsense is going to destroy the world in a self fulfilling prophecy.
Kent666
I agree and what would anybody expect from this part of the world? Civility, appropriate behavior is an unknown quantity in this area. Just let them be and demonstrate their backward behavior. No story here, move along now.
A perfect example of what can happen when there is no separation between church and state. What is happening in Egypt is no different than what would happen in the United States if Evangelicals and other so-called "conservative Christians" (read: "religious fanatics and zealots") ever manage to bully their way into real power.
Anyone who considers themselves a liberal or moderate, whether you're Christian, Jew, Buddhist, or Muslim, atheist or agnostic, should be very afraid. The Tea Party is only the first step. Once the slide into fascism begins, it's a short trip down the slope and over the edge.
Don't think it can't happen just because it hasn't happened yet!
I still say we should turn the middle-east into a giant parking lot, and that goes for any other country or government that gets in our (USA's) way.
X-ray..................... what is our way? and how would one get in our way?
What is going to happen to the boy who supplied the scissors? Maybe a prepaid membership to Al-Qaida with hopes to graduate to the Taliban?
He's just been awarded an all expense pre-paid scholarship to Suicide University in Sumschitholebad, Afghanistan. He'll have his work "cut out" for him. The young scholar will have to study hard to learn such phrases as "Death to America and Death to Israel". The local hangout at Alandjackbar should at least be able to provide some diversion from his studies.
As long as the gov of Egypt seperates church and state there is a chance that the country has a chance of being a civilized, as long as there religion runs a country there is no piece. if more Mid East countries relilze this the better chance that they may come out of the dark ages.
Muslims and Islamics don't show me too much, except maybe the FAR uncivilized past.
And they just can't let go of it.
Good evening, Infidel.
Well, things are changing. It use to be the teacher would be fired for not having a scarf over her head. Good for Egypt coming of the times. Females are rocking and getting their freedom of being 1st class citizens in Egypt.
Why is everyone here upset with what is going on in Egypt?? The people voted for the Muslim Brotherhood which in time will impose Sharia law. That is what the people there want and we should keep our noses out of it. If the people get tired of the Muslim Brotherhood then they can kick them out.
No, the people of Egypt split their vote three ways. More Egyptians
voted for the two non-muslin party’s then did for the Muslin brotherhood because
they spit their vote the Brotherhood won.
I can't imagine American women supporting the man who put Egyptian women under the thumb of the Arab Brotherhood. That didn't happen in Mubarak's Egypt...but it is happening in Obama's Egypt.
Did anyone read the article? I think it is amazing that the Muslim Brotherhood says they will not impose Sharia law, and they are punishing people that do try to impose strict religious rules. This is very good news, that maybe something good will come out of the Arab Spring.
These countries are going thru some very rough transitions. I would prefer to see them join us in the 21st century rather than turning back to the middle ages, which would only result in more death and misery until a revolution finally throws the religious conservatives in to the dustbin of history.
Yes that is good news but a lot can happen between the remote villages and Cairo that will never be heard of. The Fundos can do a lot of damage unless the government get tough on anything similar to this.
It is now post-election and the Fundos are off and running with their conservative slant on life. It was a joke why was I fired for enforcing a strict Muslim code!
The teacher is a barbarian bitch!
I think it is encouraging to know the teacher was fired.
Great job, Egypt! With the way life goes, you may become lost amongst the religious zealots in your region, but for the time being I am impressed by the punishment doled out for her actions... Shame on her, and we would do the same for a teacher here in the U.S.A without a doubt. Remember, "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell.