120,000 years old? but 46% of Americans believe the earth is only 6,000 years old!

As for the Scientists, Italy should charge the Pope with the deaths from the earthquake. Only God can make an earthquake, right? Surely the Pope should have prayed harder.

I think that quake prediction is about as accurate as the weather predictions...

Then you don't think too much.

All academics, scientists included, rush to publish papers. It's how they earn grants and project funding. I accept that, however what I do question is making rash & improbable statements to garner attention without forethought to the consequences.

I think this case highlights the fact that so many either ignore or dont even comprehend: Be responsible for your statements, if you say the sky is falling then at least add the probability of your prediction, and if you dont and people get hurt, its on you. I guess its like calling fire in a crowded theater?

The problem with holding scientists with being accountable if they don't give an adequate enough warning before earthquakes is, that you will end up having them give too many false warnings, just to legally cover their backsides. The dangers in trying to have a large population evacuate due to a possible earthquake is quite real. You have those who may plunder and commit crimes, the risks of accidents from panicked people fleeing if they feel they are out of time, confusion as to where to go for safety, violence from those who are the natural criminal elements plus traffic jams.

All that may not even be necessary, just because scientists are now going to make sure they don't face jail if they are wrong. If no earthquake occurs, will they still be sued if people are injured evacuating, is also the question? Leaving the decision up to the people, some may leave others not. You still have the risk of looters, traffic problems. Then one should remember, those who live close to volcanoes, who grow used to the threats and ashes. Eventually they ignore the warnings. How many would ignore the scientists after so many false times?

Last keep in mind, a big one may not strike for weeks after minor shocks are felt. Those who work to protect people from earthquakes may not desire to stay when faced with such liabilities. Especially in Italy. That country just may be placing its citizens in more danger if experts leave to work in other countries instead, where they won't be held accountable legally.

All academics, scientists included, rush to publish papers.

Strawman. I don't have time debating that BS.

I think this case highlights the fact that so many either ignore or dont even comprehend: Be responsible for your statements, if you say the sky is falling then at least add the probability of your prediction, and if you dont and people get hurt, its on you. I guess its like calling fire in a crowded theater?

The argument isn't that they made a statement, it's that they didn't make the statement.

And, had they warned of an impending quake, and it didn't happen, I'm guessing they would've been found criminally negligent in causing unnecessary panic in and cost to people who left their homes to shack up in better buildings in neighboring towns.

It's an absolute miscarriage of justice that they've even been charged with and tried for crimes, but if they're found guilty to boot, then Italy will have leveled an incredibly crippling blow against science, since people will have to fear for their very lives to study and/or practice it, which I doubt many if any will want to do.

Ridiculous is nowhere near a strong enough word for what these seismologists are being subjected to.

The real lesson from this, stay away from Italy.

And I thought that Americans were the most litigious people on earth...

Give me a break , there is no reliable model to date that can with any certainty predict an earthquake . To charge scientists with this sort of thing is ridiculous at best . Besides a 6.3 isn't all that strong , I've felt plenty of stronger ones , living in an ancient city with nothing resembling earthquake standards when these buildings were built is the crazy part . I would blame the city for allowing such buildings to still be occupied if I were to blame anyone for the deaths .

The result of this is, scientists will be reluctant to say anything either way. Life on this planet is not guaranteed. The old buildings collapsed because Italians are too cheap to build new earthquake resistant structures. A significant part of the world is in the same boat.

government should be held accountable for allowing the farmers to make deeper wells just plain sick this world is a dump full of tards and whoever held them accountable should rot, fracking, oil companies hold them all accountable

they would be better off quiting there job

What scientists do is "discovery". When they discover something, they tell about it in "publications". All other scientists should doubt the results until the scientific communities confirm the results by other work or examining if the conclusion made the discoverers are accurate and without other possible explanations. Scientists should not be accountable to what they say. They should absolutely tell the truth about their observations and findings. They also has the right to interpret, explain or speculate what they think about the results. It is very unfortunate that people mistake what scientists say as "absolute truth". We are smart. We know a lot. However, there is a lot more that we don't know. Thus we thrust forward. Don't persecute scientists with the "blame game"...

On the other hand, government officials, people with authorities, or licensed for specific regulations, must be accountable to what they say.

Why are the financial officials, licensed stock and finance advisers not held accountable for their failure to warn, predict or having accurate knowledge that the financial conditions of a financial sector or a country is in trouble causing multitude of people losing their jobs, their livelihood or lives lost?

This is the dumbest f'ing thing I have ever heard. Seriously, scientists can't "predict" earthquakes.

Jeff-1592116

You seem to think that earthquake prediction is a precise science, it is not. There are many examples where there have been tremblers and small quakes and then nothing happened. There are quakes every day in California yet no major quake has happened, especially the BIG one. You can not make a prediction based solely on previous smaller quakes, it is even harder in an active fault zone where there is much seismic activity on an almost daily basis. I think you need to study your geology a lot more before making your rediculous statements. Predicting the weather is a more precise science than Seismology.

All academics, scientists included, rush to publish papers.

false. As Jeff said, I don't have time to debate this BS.

I agree with Lynseypug completely! Scientists do not have the ear of 'God' but, according to the CC and the Pope, they do, right? Then let's hold him and the church and, in fact, all religious institutions that claim God speaks to them, responsible for all the terrible natural disasters this planet endures constantly!

The Italians will prosecute and sue anyone for anything! If you plan on going there on vacation be sure you understand the chances you are taking.. If you look wrong, if you speak incorrectly, if you belittle or put down anyone or anything you could wind up in court being sued by the Italian government for all of these reasons and a million more! And God forbid you should be anywhere around a murder, you could easily wind up convicted for the crime even when you had nothing at all to do with it! I would put Italy on my no-fly, dangerous places list, right beside the entire Middle-East, Mexico and Columbia..

All this is coming to America.... we are being taught everyday to BLAME others for everything.....

I think that quake prediction is about as accurate as the weather predictions...

Then you don't think too much.

Hopefully you mean here that quake prediction is even less accurate than weather prediction and are not implying (as you seem to be) that quake prediction is possible today. From usgs.gov FAQ:

Can you predict earthquakes?

No. Neither the USGS nor any other scientists have ever predicted a major earthquake. They do not know how, and they do not expect to know how any time in the foreseeable future. However based on scientific data, probabilities can be calculated for potential future earthquakes. For example, scientists estimate that over the next 30 years the probability of a major EQ occurring in the San Francisco Bay area is 67% and 60% in Southern California.The USGS focuses their efforts on the long-term mitigation of earthquake hazards by helping to improve the safety of structures, rather than by trying to accomplish short-term predictions.

Coming soon to Italian tv:

Anchor: Well Antonio, what will the weather be like this week ?

Antonio: we'll have weather.

Anchor: Anything further.

Antonio: Nope, not going to say anything else.

Anchor: Well, will it rain, be sunny, cloudy, temperature ?

Antonio: Nope, not going to say anything else.

Thank you Mr. Prosecutor for setting science back to the 15th Century. Can you say inquisition ?

Another perfect example of the Nanny-State! Who will they sue when the asteroid hits? Guess it won't matter.

This type of political stupidity will kill tourism in Italy! I think the people should consider throwing this less than brilliant judge and prosecutor to the trash heap. What is going on with Italian law these days? This is worse than the frame up they did on Amanda Knox!

I wish the anti-science crowd would put their money where their mouths are and stop using technology which SCIENCE brought them. Then again it wouldn't surprise me if they thought God invented the silicon chip.

Rediculous. Quake prediction is, so far, impossible. To place the blame for deaths caused by an earthquake on any individual (aside from Dr.Evil) is as credible as convicting Austin Powers for breaking the time barrier.

Way to go Italy! Great way to remove some of your best educated and most productive citizens from the general population. Don't you know that no one but God can predict and earthquake? Just ask the Pope about that. He lives right there with you people in a city called Rome.

A court in the Italian city of L'Aquila on Monday convicted six scientists and one government official of manslaughter for failing to give sufficient warning of a fatal earthquake that hit in 2009.

What next? Convicting weathermen because it rained after they predicted sunny skies?

How about the seismologists that are predicting an earthquake in California? They have no idea when, just that it will occur sometime between now and forever. How’s that for accuracy? Better start stocking up on canned goods and ammo.

This gives me a great idea, we should put those scientists on trial who said the LHC was going to create a miniature black hole and gobble up the world when the atoms started smashing. They failed to predict correctly what was going to happen, and as a result they caused panic. Any scientist who ever gets it wrong should now be convicted of a crime.

Thankfully, I expect these scientists will have their convictions overturned like that one girl and her British boyfriend did.

It figures that AC would try to inject climate science into a discussion about earthquakes. The facts are that the Earth's atmosphere and oceans are clearly warming (at least since the 1970s), and the risks are very high and should not be ignored. The 120,000-year ice age cycle is fairly well-understood and has little to do with what's happening now.

Richard 1.30

For the same reasons as claim of the LHC creating a black hole, I expect lawyers by the hundreds are lining up to sue the descendents of the Mayans if the sun rises on December 22nd.

This is the same type of stunt that could be pulled here in America if Mittens is elected. Him and Pauley Shore will put those who disagree or won't tow the party lie or kowtow to them in "relearning camps."

The GOP, Catholicks, any religion hates the use of science to prove them wrong. The Pope and the Catholick Crutch is behind the times. I woke this AM and thought that the earth spun backwards to the crusades. Hmm wait, no thats just the GOPs agenda via their RAHOWA..

Jeff-1592116

I wish the anti-science crowd would put their money where their mouths are and stop using technology which SCIENCE brought them.

I second that motion. It's beyond insulting that people take with one hand the fruits of modern civilization and give with the other a big fat middle finger to the philosophy that creates those fruits.

Clearly this is the case where the real culprit is blaming science. We all know that earthquakes and everything of the like are "ACTS OF GOD" and therefore the churches should be held accountable and the priest be charged with manslaughter, not the scientist.

I'm not being serious here, but it makes just as much sense as what they are doing.

lynseypug

120,000 years old? but 46% of Americans believe the earth is only 6,000 years old!

I am christian, myself and every Christian I know of including every church they attend know the earth is hundreds of millions of years old, AND THEY TEACH THAT!

You should now feel very stupid for your ASININE comment, as you make it on every article you can. Maybe a few vocal left wing religious nuts claim otherwise, but your assumption that Christianity teaches the earth is only 6000 years old is absolutely wrong; for anyone to claim this would not understand basic scripture. No where in the bible does it claim the earths age, ANYWHERE!

K. Truant

You probably don't know too many people from outside of your hometown then. When they teach creationism in public schools they say the earth is 6000 years old, and if you are like a friend I had who went to high school in Oklahoma the teachers spent 1 week on creationism and 1 day on evolution.

Zim

You are confusing the issue, how old the earth is has nothing to do with the argument between creation ad evaluation. Most biblical scholars would state that modern science proves creation as the more complex system science discovered, and the more they realize nothing is random it more and more shows design than random chance. As for the age of the earth, the bible does not say how old it is, but it does say the fall of Satan was before the creation of man, so this indicates a prehistory to the earth created "mispriint" in modern bibles. The root word used here has more than 1 meaning, it also means re-created.

K Truant: Here's the link to the Gallop Poll that found that 46% of Americans believe in young earth evolution. Not my opinion, just what I've read in the news. Living in Tennessee, I'd have thought the figure was much higher, but growing up in the Midwest during the 1970s, I'd never met a "creationist".

http://www.gallup.com/poll/21814/evolution-creationism-intelligent-design.aspx

Truant,

We have Republican Congressmen on the Congressional Science Committee that believe this crap. Just because some Christians are sane, don't think they all are.

The creationists are a perverted sub group of Christianity and if you think they don't exist, you are fooling yourself. At least 60% of the Tea Baggers believe this. Nobody is giving these people credit for being smart, but there are a whole lot of them and unfortunately they are allowed to vote. You have obviously lived a sheltered life. I would never call one of these folks my friends, but I know more than a few of them.

I find it somewhat ironic that Italy, the home of the Catholic church would confer enough respect on science and scientists as to convict them for not predicting an earth quake. These people obviously trust what their scientists tell them. Fat chance of that ever happening in this country!

Now maybe we may see some convictions of scientists here in the future, but it will be convictions for being witches!

And don't for one minute think that this is in any way a part of religion jumping on science, Italy is far less religious than the US, even counting those in the Vatican.

When I read this I thought it must be hell being an Italian weatherman.

No, not really. Warm and sunny. Warm and sunny. Occasional volcanic eruption. Warm and sunny.

If you're an Italian Siesmologist, from now on, the stock answer should be:

"A large one is coming in the future and idiots who live and work in unreinforced masonry buildings will die. Spend some money, study Californian and Japanese building codes, tear down the ancient sh!t and build sturdy, earthquake resistant habitation or FOAD."

This is nothing more or less than the Italian magistrate system at work. These magistrates are all elected and wield enormous power over the prosecution, defense, and the police investigation in these cases. Because the magistrates are always running for very short term office, they tend to pander to the voters a great deal. The apex of voter pandering there is the same as here --- finding someone to blame.

The system is allowed to continue here because, like the Knox trial and many other spectacular Italian trials gone wrong, they are virtually always overturned on appeal by professional appointed judges who have no need to pander to the voters.

The trial to watch for this in the near future is the trial of the Costa Lines captain for various malfeasance and manslaughter charges. In fact, the captain is guilty of both bad judgement and some very good decisions. But he will be tried as the one person to blame and will get a huge sentence. The incident will be forgotten and the cruise line will suffer no legal penalties. And the captain will have his sentence dramatically reduced on appeal.

@machspeeddemon,

Actually this sort of thing pertains directly to American TV weathermen. The NWS three-day forecast in terms of chance of precipitation and form of precipitation is extremely good. At five days it's not so good and at seven days it is lucky if they get the day of the week right.

But despite the fact that the NWS very accurately forecasts the chance of precipitation and its form very accurately, local TV weathermen consistently exaggerate the precipitation chance and will always predict snow over rain regardless of the temperature. This is because meterologists believe that the public is more tolerant of predicted rain/snow that doesn't come than it is of surprise rain/snow and they want to err on the side of public perception instead of maccuracy. So, as a result of the public's love of finding someone to blame for nature, the taxpayer pays for accurate forecasting that is then misrepresented to them by local TV weathermen.

People like this judge and those who are defending him have no understanding for the fact that science is a process. Getting angry because "science" doesn't have all the answers (as if "science" is a great big monolithic person) is ridiculous. Science will never have all the answers. On the other hand science is always in the process of gathering and testing more answers than it had yesterday. That's the nature of science. If you make what these guys did illegal then you're making science illegal.

The science of earthquake prediction is still in its infancy, at best it is a toddler still in the very early process of getting and testing answers about how this works.

Arresting these scientists for failing to predict an earthquake is like arresting a toddler for failing to stop an armed robbery. At best this judgment is the action of a certified ignoramous.

At worst it is a criminal act itself and the judge who did it is the one who should be in prison for official oppression. This is the sort of thing Stalin or Mao Tse Tung would've done.

It is also a good way to eliminate all scientific progress in your country, when you start imprisoning scientists for not knowing all the answers. You're telling them not to ever become scientists in the first place. Because they will never know all the answers. Therefore by this definition of the law, it is illegal to even be a scientist in the first place.

Nah, it's easier to blame someone else. We can't investigate the government and trade unions. Let's blame the scientists for not herding thoses cats quick enough. Next thing, the Italians will be wondering why no one is going into the geologic sciences anymore. By the way officer, it's raining on my golf outing. Go round up the usual meterologists for a firing squad.......

Some of those buildings have stood for 600 years. That's up to code in my book.

The picture at the top of the article, with the cars afloat in a sea of rubble, seems to disagree with you Mario.

Mario 69;

So I guess that means that the inhabitants should be held accountable to that 600 year old code also, not the scientist that most likely don’t and wouldn’t live there!

Today's construction codes could not build for even fifty years.

These were built and lasted for 600 !

Mario 69;

Your not referring to say, California's or Japans codes are you?

Unreinforced Masonry will stand for 600 years, until it meets up with ground shaking and gravity takes over.

Minoans built pretty sturdy, grandios structures, all it took was earthquake and a tsunami to wipe their empire off the face of the earth.

All the Leaning Tower of Pisa needs is a good tremor and it will be history as well.

mario you might want to rethink that amount of years. the place has been flattened or severely damaged on the years 1315,1349,1452,1461,1472,1501,1646,1703,1786,1958, not counting being sacked by the french twice in 1799 and other assorted sieges over the centuries. i'd be willing to bet only the original roman structures are still standing from 600 years ago

Sean - The tsunami hit Japan not Italy.

MG17 - Why would the French put this town in a sack? :)

You've never had take out Italian?

Mr. Willikers -

Do your take out Italians in a French Sack?

It's a strike/slip fault, you will have to move north into Weed country to get the big one (subduction zone there).

and everything east of San Andreas will slide of into the Atlantic Ocean.

Valcano warning, landslide warning, flood warnings, chance of a meterorite maybe an earthquake should be said everyday so they can cover their as— this world of holding accountable holds all except the ones that should be

Also, the food? Not as good as you'd think.

The old testament reliably predicted the flood in Noah's time. Few listened.

The old testament was published prior to the flood?? And just where do you get your facts?

Just read the old testment for content, and WikiLeaks.

It's only a little more ridiculous than the REPUBLIC IAN Voter Fraud and Gerrymandering maps for this election cycle.

If someone said that caused earthquakes I'm sure you'd believe them.

Galileo Galilei found leniency in an Italian court. He lived.

Sure, aren't these things always called "Acts of God?" The Italian court should subpoena God and get His testimony.

Force Majeure is the proper term. Acts of Dog trump all.

His testimony is on record and admissible.

The Italian court should subpoena God and get His testimony.

Just as soon as it gets back from its 2000 year or so vacation.

The bibles have been admissible in court as recently as ten years ago and as old as 3500 years ago. Still valid in court.

They said there was nothing in the data to indicate immediate alarm. There was nothing to indicate immediate alarm. Then, unlike the countless other times nothing happened, something happened. If I tell you your odds of winning the lotto are low, so you don't play, but then the numbers you would have chosen win, I still was correct in analyzing your risk of winning as low.

Certainly you don't support Scientology?