E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSS
Reuters TV
A still image taken from Israeli Defence Forces video footage shows what they say is a small unidentified aircraft shot down in a mid-air interception after it crossed into southern Israel Oct. 6, 2012.
WASHINGTON - From a suspected Israeli airstrike in Sudan to cyber warfare in the Gulf and a drone shot down over Israel, the largely hidden war between Iran and its foes seems heating up and spreading.
Despite months of speculation, most experts and governments believe the risk of a direct Israeli strike on Tehran's nuclear program stirring regional conflict has eased, at least for now. But all sides, it seems, are finding other ways to fight.
For the U.S. and European powers, the main focus remains on oil export sanctions that are inflicting ever more damage on Iran's economy.
But the Obama administration and Israel have also ploughed resources into covert operations - a campaign that now appears to have prompted an increasingly sophisticated Iranian reaction.
With Iranian hackers suspected of severely damaging Saudi oil facility computers and a suspected Hezbollah drone shot down over Israel, tactics and tools once seen as the sole purview of the United States are now clearly being used on both sides.
Report: Iran mulls 'pre-emptive attack' against Israel; commander warns of 'World War III'
The mounting body count in Syria, some believe, is also in part a consequence of the proxy war being waged there.
"In many ways, it's reminiscent of the Cold War, particularly the proxy conflicts," says Hayat Alvi, lecturer in Middle Eastern politics at the U.S. Naval War College. "But unlike in the Cold War, there are now a much larger number of asymmetrical warfare techniques. Most of this is happening behind the scenes, but in the modern world we are finding it difficult to keep them secret for that long."
Covert confrontation itself is, of course, nothing new. Foreign intelligence agencies have battled for decades to stop Iran and other states obtaining nuclear material, while Tehran and Israel have long needled each other and proxy battlegrounds, particularly in Lebanon and the Palestinian territories.
IAEA: Iran not providing 'necessary cooperation' in nuclear probe
The U.S. and Israel are widely suspected of using the Stuxnet computer worm to target Iranian nuclear centrifuges. Meanwhile, most experts believe Israel's Mossad was involved in assassinations of several nuclear scientists - attacks suspected to have prompted similar bomb attacks on Israeli diplomats in India, Georgia and Thailand and tourists in Bulgaria.
Hezbollah drone shot down
But it does seem to be escalating. What Tehran is trying to do now, most analysts believe, is in part further retaliation. But its rulers may also be indicating that the Islamic Republic now has a range of new and potentially damaging options in reserve should its nuclear facilities be bombed.
The penetration of Israeli airspace by an unmanned drone apparently operated by Lebanese militant group Hezbollah - a long-term Iranian ally - was, perhaps, one of the clearest examples so far.
Hezbollah admits launching drone over Israel
The drone was shot down by Israel's military in the vicinity of its main nuclear facility at Dimona.
Iran has long been believed to be putting resources into a drone program and may have gathered useful tips after a classified U.S. Sentinel stealth drone came down in the country last year. While the Hezbollah drone was unarmed, a attack with multiple drones laden with explosives might prove harder to stop.
The dramatic spike in suspected Iranian cyber attacks this year also has some in the U.S. distinctly worried. While direct denial of service attacks on U.S. banks - widely seen as retaliation for U.S. sanctions and attempts to freeze Iran from the international financial system - were seen relatively simplistic, attacks on U.S. allies in the Gulf were more complex.
The most worrying, experts say, were those on Saudi oil firm Aramco and Qatari gas export facilities. Last month, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta described the Saudi attack as the most sophisticated yet launched on a private company, effectively destroying tens of thousands of computers - although he stopped short of blaming Tehran directly.
In an attempt to convey what he sees as a threat to Israel's existence, Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu used a cartoon to illustrate how close he says Iran is to developing a nuclear weapon. In a speech at the United Nations General Assembly he asked the world to help stop them. NBC's Andrea Mitchell reports.
Iranian officials have tended to deny involvement. But they say they have continued to come under cyber attack themselves with systems at Iran's own oil facilities, communications and infrastructure firms suffering problems last month.
"The problem is that these are secret forms of warfare that are rarely, if ever, discussed publicly," a veteran former CIA official and now a senior fellow at the Brookings Institute told an event last month. "And yet the implications could be colossal. What do we do, for example, if it turns out the Iranians can shut down the entire Saudi oil production."
Sending a message
In the absence of direct face-to-face negotiations, such actions can also be a diplomatic tool in their own right.
"The cyber attacks and Hezbollah drone both represent an escalation from the Iranian camp," says Ariel Ratner, a former Obama administration political appointees at the State Department and now fellow for the Truman National Security Foundation. "But a lot of what is going on here is a matter of signaling to each other."
That might also in part explain a suspected Israeli airstrike on the outskirts of the Sudanese capital Khartoum on October 23 that caused a major fire at Sudan's Yarmouk arms factory.
"Israel is flexing its muscles militarily and also sending a message to Tehran and Washington that it will not hesitate to use force to defend itself," says Bilal Saab, director of the Institute for near East and Gulf Military Analysis based in the United Arab Emirates and Washington D.C.. "It was a show of force meant to send political messages and achieve precise and immediate military objectives, those being the prevention of Iranian shipment of sensitive hardware to its proxies."
Israel refused to comment after Sudanese officials said four of its aircraft conducted the attack. U.S. officials would not comment on what they believed happened, but spy agencies have long suspected Iran of smuggling weaponry into Eritrea and Sudan and across Egypt to Hamas militants in Gaza.
Source: Back-channel talks but no US-Iran deal on one-to-one nuclear meeting
Last week's four-day visit to Sudan by two Iranian warships - coming mere days after the arms factory attack - appeared an unusually public show of solidarity between two nations. Some suspect Israel is also raising its support for South Sudan, which gained its independence last year and has since teetered on the brink of conflict with Khartoum.
Arab divisions
The much more significant proxy confrontations, however, remain in the region itself. Israel is taking something of a back foot in the conflict in Syria - its officials saying any support they might give for anti-Assad rebels would be counter-productive - but Iran's Arab rivals are not.
For Washington, rolling back Tehran's influence in Syria is seen as a distinctly secondary goal to stopping - or at least limiting - the bloodshed.
For Saudi Arabia and Qatar, however, arming the rebels, the prospect of replacing the Shiite Alawite rule of Bashar al-Assad with a Sunni majority government with no Iranian links is seen as a key motivation.
At schools, in shops, and on the streets of big cities and small towns, daily life plays out in Iran.
The war there is already seen destabilizing neighboring Lebanon, while the body count in Iraq has also been creeping back up as violence between Sunni groups and sometimes Tehran-backed Shiites.
The Sunni leadership of almost all of the Gulf states have long suspected Iran of stirring up dissent among their Shiite populations, although Western diplomats suspect such claims are overstated. Some worry Washington is already being dragged onto one side in a growing regional blood feud.
Tehran may step up its attempts to destabilize neighbors, particularly if it believes its enemies are trying to do the same. Washington recently removed Iranian militant opposition group MEK from its list of terrorist groups, potentially opening the door to covert co-operation. To work with it on attacks within the country, however, might produce a violent response.
Last year, U.S. officials said they had foiled an Iranian plot to kill the Saudi ambassador to Washington by bombing a restaurant in Washington DC. That, some security experts said, suggested Iran was increasingly willing to take serious risks - although others said the entire tale sounded too far-fetched.
"It's very easy to look at these events and tie them together in some kind of straightforward narrative," says Henry Smith, Middle East analyst for London-based consultancy Control Risks. "But in reality, things are likely to be far more complex."
More world stories from NBC News:
- Analysis: From Afghanistan to Venezuela, 2012 battle captivates
- Analysis: Despite bloodshed,White House candidates ignore Mexico
- Analysis: US loses patience with Syria opposition group
- Analysis: Suspicion of US rife as Romney, Obama batter China
- Meet Afghan female rapper, colonel who defy the odds
- Analysis: Israel, Iran name checks illustrate America's twin obsessions
- Chinese say one child is enough as Beijing weighs end of policy
- Analysis: Should next US president treat Russia as friend or foe?
- Expert: Tourists threaten Sistine Chapel's famous paintings
Follow World News from NBCNews.com on Twitter and Facebook
Copyright 2013 Thomson Reuters. Click for restrictions.
Leave a Comment:
This is becoming another bunch of jokes just as before Iraqi wars!
It is mainly Shiites vs Sunni battles! Not a Cold War!
Syria and Iran are simply Islamic religious battles and not ideological battles.
Hope people have learnt lessons from Iraqi wars, Afghan war, Libya and other places.
For a change let brave warriors of Sunni Saudi, Kuwaiti, Qatari, UAE and others battle in Syria and Iran.
ME is not our business. Just keep miles away.
Just like before each Iraqi wars, autocratic, highly corrupt and despotic bigoted Sunni Sunni Saudi, UAE, Qatar, Kuwaiti and Sunni oil rich nations are stage managing their dances and actions through oil companies, extremist Jewish lobbys and their puppets in the US, Britain, EU and other nations on Syria and Iran.
In Syria, Syrian rebels are backed by a-Qaida and MB.
In Egypt, Islamic fundamentalist Morsi is a front cover for the Sunni Islamic extremist Salaffi, MB and others.
With sanctions on Iranian oil, oil prices which was around $40 in 2009 has crossed $110 now.
If Iraqi wars gave us PIIGS, there will more nations added to PIIGS.
IRAQ WARS
Net results of Saudi, Kuwait, UAE, oil companies and their lobbyists directed 1991 and 2003 Iraqi wars are
WINNERS
1. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE and other rich ME sharks became richer by manipulating oil prices too high.
2. Oil companies and their lobbyists also benefitted. Oil prices, which were hardly $30 a barrel before 1991, shot up to $140 a barrel.
3. Since 2003, future traders, rating agencies, Wall Street and oil companies and their lobbyists transferred five trillion dollars from oil importing countries to oil exporting nations.
4. Rich Sunni ME sharks (Saudi Arabia in particular) funded Salaffi and Wahhabi mosques and Islamic radicals and terrorists all over the world. These Sunni Islamic radicals and terrorists are rampaging all over the world. World’s 80 percent of problems are due to them.
LOSERS
1. General US and European nations’ public. There have been high unemployment, cut in welfare measures, housing market collapse and more miseries. Since 2001, US spent three trillion dollars on Iraq and Afghan wars. Did the Saudis and co foot the bill?
2. Poor soldiers killed and injured and their families. In Iraq and Afghan wars 6300 soldiers were killed and 40000 injured.
3. High budget deficits and heavier borrowing. Many nations (PIIGS) and people are on line to bankruptcy!
4. Iraq will plunge into bloody sectarian civil wars leading to the creation of Shiastan, Sunnistan and Kurdistan. Here the losses are of Iraqis.
You nailed it Jonathan. There are several other aspects which we know about, and some we don't, intentionally. I have served in those countries, to include South America, which is somewhat relevant, because I have seen first hand the corruption, the host nation mindsets, the real reasons behind the wars or conflicts, soldier or contractor mentalities towards it all, and even having felt the blow of being unemployed for three years now. If it weren't for my savings, I would be homeless, which isn't that far away. But for MSN and other news portals, they LOVE to INCITE! We all know that politicians and/or lobbyists play a role in what goes out to the media at times, and this seems to be one of them. The war machine has to find ways to feed itself, and propaganda is one such means of doing so. It's not like throwing pamphlets out of a UH-1 (helicopter for those not knowing), into local villages as part of psyops propaganda, but not too far from it. I am like you, just leave it alone dammit!! Our government NEEDS to focus on our country, period.
If anyone here is an employer, I have over 20 years in management, 8 year Marine Vet (0311/0431), have worked 7 years in several OCONUS operations (some not advertised), State of Florida County Law Enforcement 4 years, and past domestic positions are Construction Manager (wireless telecom), Division Manager (same), Project Manager, Operations Management, President of past founded $5.2M company, and last position was that of Site Manager successfully managing over $100M of government contracts, and oversight of over 1000 employees on one contract. I have plenty to offer, so if interested, post here and hopefully I am notified by this site. God Speed and Semper Fi!
Another spin from the antisemite media.
Secret war against Iran, however the picture is an aircraft shoot down flying over Israel.
Crap! Maybe we should let Romney win. lol.
Exciting warfare. If it can be called that. Those high tech drones overhead would be flat scary.
Maybe terrible to say but I like that just sunnis and shiites are involved on the ground (subject to change?). What a terrible religous society to have to live in when your leadership acts tribal (damned republicans lol).
As far as I'm concerned, Isreal can bust these idiots chops anytime everyday, hard, because THIS country has it covered. Bigtime!
This article makes Iran sound like it is an advesary as worthy of respect as the Cold War Soviet Union. There is nothing equal with regards to the US and Iran. Iran is a dump stuck in the 8th century. The United States is a 21st century super power. Iran is just a Russian tool as Isreal is a US tool. Both are barely even relevant.
If the US should concern itself with a real potential military threat it should be China in the years to come. Iran will probably blow itself up with it's own nukes.
Take a look at the DUMP and people who live there.
Just type "3 minutes trip to tehran" and " persian wedding knife dance"on youtube engine and watch.then google " SAMAND".
Iranian captured your most advaned Drone INTACT.so you say 8th century beat 21st century???
Russia is hated by all Iranians including the regime leaders and goons and not trusted and/or considered friend,let alone having much influence in Iran.
Israel is NOT American tool either.it has much more influence on USA than USA has on them.
Iranian people are highly educated and MOST ARE SECULAR and the vast majority of Iranian people ADORE Americans/USA.
I have visited many countries on earth and I know this for sure that Iranian people are the most hospitable and kindest people of the eath by far.
Check " Rick Steves Iran " on youtube.
Once upon a time Iran and USA were the closest of friends and allies.
They will be friends again soon.
"Iranian captured your most advaned Drone INTACT.so you say 8th century beat 21st century???"
They have the capacity to steal technology...not develop it....wow! Most advanced Drone?.....10 years ago. We've been sitting on our hands doing nothing since eh?...lol.
"Russia is hated by all Iranians including the regime leaders and goons and not trusted and/or considered friend,let alone having much influence in Iran."
...and yet they are Iran's best trading partner.
"Iranian people are highly educated and MOST ARE SECULAR and the vast majority of Iranian people ADORE Americans/USA."
"I have visited many countries on earth and I know this for sure that Iranian people are the most hospitable and kindest people of the eath by far."
...and yet they have a RELIGIOUS government, the population is overwelmingly Muslim and they seem to have no problem burning American flags in their streets....if that is love your mom didn't huge you enough.
"Once upon a time Iran and USA were the closest of friends and allies.
They will be friends again soon."
Highly unlikely being that their RELIGIOUS government wants to "wipe Isreal off the face of the earth" and all.
LOL did you watch the youtube clips? I guess NOT.
Religious?? Iranians are more secular than Americans in general.the ones that you see on TV are paid goons. were you watching the news back in june 2009?
Check Universities all over USA/Canada and you will find many Iranian professors.look at NASA top scientists and there are many Iranian Americans including Bobak Ferdowsi/NASA Mohawk guy who is DIRECTOR of Mars Rover flight.he is only 33.
IRANIAN=PERSIAN PEOPLE invented Highways,paper money,banking,post,wind Mills, 2500 years ago....next time you mail something check the slogan of US Postal Service( Neither snow nor rain...) it comes from those who invented it PERSIA=IRAN.
Next time you visit LA go see the Iranian ghetto called Beverly Hills,even the mayor there is an Iranian American.
Yeah. Havent watched clips yet. I will when I get home. I know Persian history a bit and I know the civilization itself has contributed greatly to mankind throughout its history. I will go as far with you in that most of the Iranians that are here are secular.
I cannot understand how a secular population can tolerate the rule of a religious government. The real problem I suppose is our two nations governments. I might be inclined to believe that the government does not reflect the opinions of the people because let's be honest, ours doesn't either. If I look at our society though, it is made up of people of all colors and faiths from all over the world and tolerance is something we overwelmingly take pride in. I do not see that when it comes to Iran. I see one culture. I see a people who as a whole treat women poorly. I see a nation who openly calls for the destruction of other nations. Lots of bad and little good. 2500 years ago Persia might have been an advanced civilization but they are headed down a bad road these days I think. Nothing but bad has come from Iran since the revolution....alot like Cuba...lol.
My opinion could be swayed but I'd have to research a bit more. Iran is not exactly an open society. I'm surprised westerners can even get in and out of the country without being arrested...I'm assuming you have?
One would hope the evil empire would blow themselves up!
I agree with Sirus!
But I don't want to tell u what to think. I'll let the news do that for you.
WASHINGTON - From a suspected Israeli airstrike in Sudan to cyber warfare in the Gulf and a drone shot down over Israel, the largely hidden war between Iran and its foes seems heating up and spreading.
Despite months of speculation, most experts and governments believe the risk of a direct Israeli strike on Tehran's nuclear program stirring regional conflict has eased, at least for now. But all sides, it seems, are finding other ways to fight.
Well you see this is exactly what you get when a conflict is no longer out the open.... The ways of war are many.... Once you make an enemy you can't go back.... So in that respect keep sending drone strikes and weapons and hate overseas where nothing there really has to be any of your business....
And by all means don't send love, respect or peice of mind....
I would say to look up what our country has done to Iran over the past 50 years of so. How we supported dictators and tried to keep them in power just so that we could get cheap oil when the people of those countries really wanted democracies. We backed them into a corner with no other options since we wanted our cheap oil and would do anything to get it. I wonder why they have the government they do now? What other choice did they have? Continue to let the U.S. and Britain steal oil for next to nothing or make a stand? They made a stand and kicked our puppet out of power, we have been at odds ever since.
They have even tried to overthrow their current government and we have never even tried to help out in recent times. Granted even protests do not last long under the current government, but when you have an "enemy" like the U.S. that you can scapegoat some of your problems to it makes it much easier to stay in power. It is like the GOP and the Obama hate rhetoric. The GOP have managed to convince people that he is a "enemy". Simple brains can only see black and white, not the many shades of grey that exist in humanity.
Pretty sure I had an Iranian math teacher in collage. He was known around the campus to be the best/hardest to pass his class, but since I was going for an engineering degree I knew that I would be using math non stop. I had to take his class twice since I had been out of high school for a while and was rusty, but I passed all of my engineering classes with relative ease afterwards. Several students complained that he was to tough and tried to get him fired, but I defended him because he knew his chit about math. He was hard, but fair. If only more people understood basic math...if only.
Yeah except for the fact that one drone carrying even a dirty bomb into Tel Aviv will make the middle east map look like the moon once the devestation is over. It's no longer about who has the military might when one small organization aided by a rogue state can kill 100s of thousands of people. The world is going to look much different in 20 years due to the damage a small group will be able to inflict.
A drone carrying a dirty bomb would not be able to inflict much damage at all. Any nuclear device would also carry a signature, which could be traced to the country of origin. You listen and read to too much Zionist propaganda. Iran has not started a war with another country in almost 200 years.
The story about an Iranian attempt to assassinate Saudi ambassador last year, was a clunsy attempt top frame Iran. No intelligence agency would ever use Mexican cartels and used car salesmen to do an assassination. It shows what lengths our government will go to,if it was our government, in order to justify a war.
Any aggressive military posturing or action is a clear violation of Article 2(4) of the U.N. Charter.
Illegal.
Quarant
I don't disagree with that, but since everyone in that region has already gone WAY beyond that, what are ya going to do? Pretty hard to chastise someone that just looks you in the eye, sets your flag on fire, spits in your face and says F__— you when you tell them they broke a rule.
The civilized rules of engagement do not apply equally to all sides in that conflict!
They do not apply to a religious fundimentalist nation as is Iran for sure....especially when they want to wipe another nation off the map.
Sirus says they are the most hospitable and kindest people on earth. I disagree. I cannot find anybody kind who is racist, would kill their own sister or mother for "dishonor" to the family..wtf?, and treat half their population (the women) like property.
Sounds like a real awesome place huh? What a vision for the world!
Naive! Do really think that makes any difference?
Troy,
I agree with your assessment of what I have seen from the Iranian culture. Yet the same people that praise Iran, Afghanistan, etc as peaceful nurturing and loving would march in a minute if I told my wife to STFU, much less cut off her hands for accidentally touching someone else while in the market. Somehow they don't see the hypocrisy in it. BTW folks, if you think there is a war against women in the USA, go live in an Arab country then get back to me on that.
The UN sucks!
We hates the nasty little UNsesses...they stole our precious and we wants it back..
Troy1101
They do not apply to a religious fundimentalist nation as is Iran for sure....especially when they want to wipe another nation off the map.
Life is life everywhere ya go.... So step away for awhile and let them settle it.... Someones nose will get rubbed in it....
Tracy 2712120
if you think there is a war against women in the USA, go live in an Arab country then get back to me on that.
Thats been the entire purpose of their wars over there.... Now they will give other issues to digest, but if you treat your women like they do, they will eventually fight back....
Warthog, I agree with you in general, not just women but children, anyone that didn't walk lock-step with their idea, etc. Unfortunately, equalization against extremist is a difficult thing.
Strap on your jocks boys and girls, the turbulence of severe posturing and the buffeting of a new cold war are in our future.
Question remains the same as they have always been, what should our position in this cold war be. Even if we back out of the area completely, the attitude toward the USA will not change IMHO. Also, we won't be there to gather intelligence needed to protect ourselved if they are allowed to freely come and go. We can not control them as it is well proven that NO military makes a good police force. Most in this country don't have the fortitude to defeat them, though we could do it easily.
With that in mind I say get with the Brits, Germans, Russians and a few others, surround them and play the part of goalie. If one starts to head for the net, kick'em back into the playing field! Total hands off except for that, keep trading with them, but make sure no one sends them missle parts, newer technology fighters or bomber, submarines or some stupid crap like that. They want to fight so damn bad, let them.
Somebody told me not to even try to teach those who post anything here. it is useless because you only beleive your own stereotypes about ARABS. Iranians are not ARABS they are Persians,VERY DIFERENT CULTURE.
there are no honor killing in Iran.people there have lots of parties.
Iranian girls and boys have more intimate relationships than most countries.
DO NOT CONFUSE REGIMES WITH PEOPLE.THOSE WHO DO ARE AS INTELIGENT AS ISLAMIC GOONS.
Sirus,
I can take you back almost 50 years ago, some of our most serious dealing with Iran started then. While there is a section of their community that I would agree with you on, their leadership is completely goonlike and for the most part nuttier than a fruitcake to boot. They have been at war in that region with one of their neighbors or another for so long that no one can remember when it wasn't that way.
That said, no blanket statement, good or bad it totally accurate. I still stand on the base of what I said, if they want to continue war in their region and spew hatred toward everyone else, let them, lets just play goalie.
You can educate some of the people who post here. Just not after high school lets out for the day....lol.
I've learned alot from people who comment here...yourself included..and not just from this article. You just have to weed through a mountain of stubborn idiots to find good people to have a conversation with.
Honor killings are a Muslim tradition though...and there are indeed lots and lots of Muslims in Iran. I agree with your statements concerning regimes and people since all I have to do is look at our own and know that is the case.
Sirus,
I have to say though I'm siding with Tracy on this one. I will watch some youtube on the topic but I need more than that to sway me. I can't snatch info from only one place and believe it...the danger of propoganda and all...Persia has a rich history....the portion that is now modern day Iran however does not based on what research I have done. They are also playing a very dangerous game with a very advanced and capable world super power at the moment....doesn't sound all that smart.
Sirus,
I am a hard case old man that rode shotgun on minuteman missile and interdiction runs in a Cobra, but I know enough to learn something new everyday. I don't believe in voting a party line or locking on only one issue at a time. As I said before, no blanket statement holds true for anyone all the time, but my past experience has led me not to trust "the leadership" of Iran. This is in absolutely no way a statement that we should turn them (their people) into an glass ashtray, I just said play goalie and let what works out, work out. I think Troy and I are in pretty close agreement on this. That part of the world doesn't operate the same as we do, never has.
Those who defend Islamic Goons are as dangerous as Islamic Goons.
WATCH Rick Steves IRAN on youtube.see for your own.
Let's just go stomp their collective asses into the ground and be done with it.
Good idea! Now, if we can just get China to loan us a shipload of money so we can fill up the aircraft carriers and jets, we can git er done. Of course, they will have to sell us another shipload of missiles, and tanks since we can't build much of anything in this country anymore
You are nuts WychDoctor!...lol. Weapons are what we build best in this country!
Secret War?! Not so secret.
The US is getting baited. Abajamadman has been preaching that US are bullies, that duck and run with their nuke program because it is still 3 years away, Israel is pushing for a preemptive strike. We will follow Israel and attack, Abajamadman will be standing there saying "see i told you they are bullies" and even thoough other muslim countries dont care for him they will be paying attention.
That is hitting the nail squarely on the head isawitall.....isawitall? lol
That is the one thing I think the US needs to consider the most.
Don't you love no win situation, isawitall? Some days you just choose how you lose and then deal with cleaning that mess up, but at least you got to choose which pile of poop to clean up.
Let's send some drones over to Iran and blow up as much as possible but build the drones with Russian parts and markings and let Iran go after Russia
Then you can explain to Russia why you tried to frame them.
Iraq and Afghanistan are winding down,we gotta find someone to war with,besides why waste all the badasses we created in Iraq ,somebody at least will have a job and power to the troops
Lost an uncle in Irag and my brother just got back with the USS Enterprise from a 7 month deployment in the Persian Gulf. I had the pleasure of riding the carrier from Mayport to Norfolk Naval Base and spent 3 days with the sailors. I promise you they do not think they are "badasses". They view it as their job to do and all any of them want is to go home....home, home. The one thing they all have in common is they just want to come home.
I see your point and I know you are being funny but on a serious note, most of these guys are warn down and need a break. I prayed to god every day that nothing happened concerning Iran or Syria while my brother was out there. They are everyday people like you and me. We think they are badasses....they do not.
Well said Troy,
Contrary to everyone that called us warmongers back in the day, good soldiers pray for peace but prepare for the event of war, hoping it will never come. Like everything, there are those soldiers that are contrary to what I just said, but they are very much the minority.
Sorry to hear about your uncle, but appreciate his service to our country. Hooah
God bless you too Tracy. All of you vets and all on active duty are heros to alot of us. In a world full of uncertainty the men and women of our military have provide us certainty in the one area that in my opinion matters above all others, a strong and capable fighting force.
I am a young guy but I love American history and all things military. You guys, past and present, have defended us with your lives and as far as I am concerned deserve unwavering support and respect from each and every one of us.
I also think it is cool that there is a place setting in the mess halls for the POWs and MIAs.
With Obamanation there ISN'T any war with IRAN, Secret or not. He has bent over so far even if the bastard doesn't get re-elected. The United State is F.cked.
Took awhile to figure out there is a Cold War with Iran.
What's the next step?
How did the Cold War with Russia end?
We live in a Thermo Nuclear Age. Make no mistake THERMO NUCLEAR WEAPONS can DESTROY NATIONS.
I think we should have blimps with survalence capability along our Mexican Border. I don't want marajuna to be legal in the United States. I want this fake war on drugs to end and the resources we use to be used right here within our homeland. I think we don't need the C.I.A. AND the F.B.I. BUT, we need one or the other. I don't want a pipe line to go from Canada to the Gulf of Mexico so petroium products from Canada can be exmported over seas and the United States gets little if anything from it. I think Iran is a Problem for Israel, the United States and the world. I think too many people in the world suffer and die needlessly and the way the United States and others try to help could be done differently. I think the Government of the United States is wrong by the way it takes it's citizens tax money and uses it in and for other nations. I think the United States has no business in another countrys economic growth and development and this should be left up to private investors.
I look at the history of our last two states, Alaska and Hawaii and see how and why they became our 49th and 50th states. I wonder why the Puetro Rico people have NOT accepted becoming a State and joined our union of states. I think the United States spends as much or more time and money on Israel as it does on the poorest State in our union. I think sometimes if Israel wasn't so far away she would have been our 51st state if we could make it so. I think the world is messed up and know I don't have the power to fix it.
I did vote TODAY : ) I am happy I did. This 2012 Presidental election and campain WHEW what a thing.
Well anyway I voted for President Barrak Obama and Vice President Joe Biden. We'll see what we get.
I voted this way because I know what we have and it may not be what we expect yet somehow I trust Obama and Biden to do what is best for every American citizen. Because I believe in WE THE PEOPLE. Not business comes first. I believe in moving forward and not backward. Although I do believe sometimes one must take a step backwards in order to take a step forward. If Rommey wins well then more power to him. His wife says he will move the heaven, moon, stars and the earth for us. I thought she was weird to say that. Anyway tomorrows just another day and whatever will be, will be. I hope you and your family are o.k., safe and healthy. I hope world peace will be maintained and we never as humans expierence another world war. Peace to everyone. Accept me and respect me for who I am, I will do my best to do the same for you.
After election day anything can happen, Pandora's Box is open!
If Netanyahu is REMOVED from the equation, peace will have a chance in the Middle east!!! HE IS THE PROBLEM, people!!! So what are you waiting for?????? REMOVE THE BASTARD AND THEN FRY HIM OVER COALS!!!!
"Patric" is an Islamofascist.
Obama looses election in a big way!!!!! And it couldn't have happened to a nicer guy!!!!!lol
Its a never ending cold war...not just Russia which may be... or not... an ally...but there is China, which is STILL communist, despite all the business done with them, and lets not forget Korea...the world is now and always has been a dangerous place and survival of the fittest the rule of survival!
The Middle East is a very complex problem. Everyone in the region knows that Israel is very similar to a hornet's nest in reaction. Mess with the nest and they come out and sting everything in sight. Anyone wanting Iran to suffer needs only give Israel a reason to strike.
Iran claims that it wants to destroy Israel and make new Holocaust. Iranians are new Nazis. Nobody gives Israel a reason to strike, except for Iranians themselves.
C'MON ISRAEL get the big one ready and insert without hesitation into the center of IRAN, POOF NO LOSS TO MANKIND !
Except for the increase of cancer in the worlds population due to the increased radiation levels in the Earths atmosphere.
whenever you hear these two words, remember these key features:
asymetrical warefare is always on their turf, and always at our own chosing
we can avoid every such war by not invading, or not chosing to figth there (note how well we solved the Iraq problem, by simply withdrawing)
the problem that iran and hezbollah have is that they are not experts at playing war games and they will end up losing.
Perhaps iran and hezbollah are not experts at war, but they are big enthusiasts in murduring all non-Muslims.
Has anyone ever noticed that the idiots that are hollering for war are the very same morons who have never served in the military or been in a war zone.
Keep in mind people, war translates to ====DEATH AND DESTRUCTION, which is a permanent state.
Hey Obama supporters....what is your WEAK President going to do about Iran shooting a drone out of the sky a few days ago, is he going to fire back or go over and APOLOGIZE for having our drones in their airspace
Nuclear powered drones flying over Iran will help a lot when they shoot them down....lol. They won't even know what hit them. Of course they have to be able to hit them first....lol.