American Girl,

Iran can't even shoot down a flying camera...I hardly think we need to go to war with them. There is no threat...lol.

Just a thought, one US supercarrier task force has enough firepower on board to wipe off the face of the map the entire Irianian Air Force and Navy without even resupplying. The attack would come in the dead of night and they wouldn't even know or see until their anti-aircraft facilities exist no more....and we maintain 2 of these in the Persian gulf at all times...

The question is not capabilities....it is whether the US should contain or eliminate. I vote for the goalie approach. let them all kill eachother, just keep it in their own back yard.

And I am not sure how in a fighter jet you "try" and shoot down a drone. They are slow. And cant evade fire from a jet fighter. If the Jet pilot even has the competence to fly a plane. They should be able to shoot down a drone moving at 150 mph in a circle. And then follow it back. If it wanted it down it would be down. I would say they flexed a bit but didnt shoot it down cause they knew that would really be a possible act of war. Which they dont want at the moment. But I know the war mongers are just SALIVATING at sending more people into war. While saying we need to reduce the deficit. Just put it on a credit card like the last 2. Then threatening to default on the deficit limit needs expanding to really hurt the country. Any way, I personally had enough war and watched enough friends die fighting in Afghanistan. I am out but can be called back. I dont feel like fighting another war in Iran right now till its absolutely necessary. But I guess people posting on here that never actual have been in war its real easy to say lets fight when your at home

TO: Troy1101 who wrote:

"American Girl,

Iran can't even shoot down a flying camera...I hardly think we need to go to war with them. There is no threat...lol.

Just a thought, one US supercarrier task force has enough firepower on board to annialate the entire Irianian Air Force and Navy. The attack would come in the dead of night and they wouldn't even know or see until their anti-aircraft facilities exist no more....and we maintain 2 of these in the Persian gulf at all times..."

Ok, that sounds cool, but I bet if WE hit them, they would definately know it was us!

Seems we have our drones up there, checking everything out.

Go USA!

US constantly kept provoking Russia during the Cold War (I actually served in Europe during that time and saw it done first hand). Now they are doing it to Iran. Big boys like to play with their big expensive toys... I bet the drone was well inside Iranian air space when attacked.

Out comes more patriotic BS to rile up the hawks to support another war.

Asked whether the Iranian jet was firing warning shots, Little said the jet "fired to take it down." He would not speculate on whether this constitutes an act of war.

"There is absolutely no precedent" for an incident like this, he said.

More saber rattling to convince Americans spend more $trillions on weapons and send many more of our young to be slaughtered--for what? To support that little war-mongering imp of a country and to make the weapons mfgrs immensely richer.

TO: concernedone who wrote:

"... Somehow I think this will be spun as something we HAD to do..."

It sounds like you haven't heard (over the past 12 years) that Iran is suspected of building a nuclear weapon?

You haven't heard anything about that, until now?

Seems strange that it took a week for this to make the news. Must have been highly classified.

Malcontented - the drone was over international waters. I'm seeing different accounts - some say it was 16mi off the coast of Kuwait, others 16mi off the coast of Iran. Either way, the sovereign waters of Iran start at 12mi from their coast.

Troy, don't be so sure about the power of those supercarrier task forces. The Iranians have a highly-sophisticated brown-water (i.e. coastal, not deep-sea) navy with large numbers of small speedboats. Multiple wargames scenarios have seen them overwhelming carrier task forces using swarming hit-and-run tactics, the same way wolves bring down a moose. Quantity sometimes wins over quality, and overconfidence only helps it do so.

I might believe the drunken pilot line. I think the Iranians are pretty savvy about the risk-reward of shooting down something as inconsequential as a drone.

However, anyone of the opinion that Iran "is no threat" or one US carrier could "wipe off the face of the map the entire Irianian Air Force and Navy" is obviously rather naive on these issues.

An act of war? Well, they didn't hit it and it is unmanned...on the other hand us shooting down an Iranian airliner and killing a couple hundred people might be. But that didn't cause a war either...

And I am not sure how in a fighter jet you "try" and shoot down a drone. They are slow. And cant evade fire from a jet fighter. If the Jet pilot even has the competence to fly a plane. They should be able to shoot down a drone moving at 150 mph in a circle.

Predator typically flies at about 100 mph.

SU-25 may not be able to sustain such low speed, so it has to shoot on a pass. And it's not an easy task. Were it shooting for a hit, it would have used a guided missile.

Fire back.

Took a week for the administration to get the story straight and everyone on board....I'll be there was an internet film involved.....Well at least no one was left to die this time....

A couple of observations -

• A fighter hitting a drone with a gun is probably a little harder than one might think - it is going to be very slow relative to a jet unless the jet puts out flaps and flys very close to stall speed - and even then the relative difference is likely to be such that the firing window to hit it with guns is fairly short.
• A typical drone is much smaller than a fighter - making a smaller target to hit than the pilot might have practice against.
• I'm not at all sure what the evasive capabilities of a drone might be, but one thing that a drone doesn't have to worry about is any human physiological limits regarding g-forces, etc. All it has to avoid is structural failure. So, if directed by its "armchair pilot" it could theoretically make sharper turns, etc. than might be practical via a pilot in the cockpit. Since I know little about official (or unofficial) drone performance characteristics that is just theory/supposition.
• The biggest limitation would be time lag between drone and "pilot," but it is certainly conceivable that there are target avoidance algorythms built in to attempt to protect it in the event it is targeted by another aircraft in flight.

At 4:50 a.m. EDT on Nov. 1, an Iranian SU-25 Frog Foot jet fired on a U.S. MQ-1 Predator drone that was conducting routine surveillance in international waters over the Arabian Gulf, Pentagon spokesman George Little said. The unarmed Predator was approximately 16 nautical miles off the Iranian coast when the Iranian jet began firing, he said.

WHY didn't our POTUS tell us before the election? He sure as hell told us when he killed Bin Laden and was able to leak other matters of security to the press!!

So I guess he is saying its OK to fire on our military and there are no consequences? Of course, there were no consequences for murdering our Ambassador to Libya either!

Funny, does this have something to do with Valerie Jarrett and her secret deal with Iran?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nYKcMAHERw&feature=vmdshb

American Girl - You might have misunderstood me. From reading a couple of your other posts, it appears you and I are probably on the same page...

Max 108 - My Brother-in-law served on a carrier in the mid-late 80's. According to him, they played chicken with Russian ships more than once. He brought back pictures from a deployment where they pulled up next to a Russian vessel & gave them the finger. They then dropped their pants and politely requested that the Russians kiss their backsides...

jane h no one has to make obama look bad he does a fine job of that all on his own!

last time the GOP's plan was to do nothing to make sure the pres doesn't get another term. Now it's, do nothing to try to make it look like he is the worse pres every so that bush don't get the mark anymore!! what a shame it is for this country what they are doing

Take DAT Iran! We will send you a stern message through the Swiss, that we are going to do nothing at all about you threatening our drone in international airspace. So watch it!

I think it is an easy call on this one. Iran was pushing for a pre-election reaction from Obama that in one way or another would sway the outcome of the election. Sway which way? I don't know. It's Iran. They're nucking futs.

I could be wrong - maybe even probably am wrong - but this theory makes sense to me.

On the question of how the guy could have missed - who says these jokers have any clue what they're doing? The fighter jet being referenced is an old a$$ piece of left over garbage from pre-cold war days. Who knows what kind of accuracy the cannons on those are capable (or not) of.

American Girl,

We would tell them it was us. Besides, nobody else has the capability so they would naturally know it was us.

I am not saying we should. I am saying we keep enough military capacity in the area to handle anything Iran can throw at us. As it stands now, they can't even shoot down a flying camera...that is very comforting to me anyway.

Again, I vote for the "goalie" approach....containment. Let them kill eachother...just make sure it stays in there own yard and when it doesn't kick it back.

We are not in the Persian Gulf to go to war with Iran. Our military is in the Persan Gulf to keep shipping lanes open, protect our Arab friends, and enforce sanctions. But if we needed to....well...

You know what the best part of all of this is??? Even if the information was purposely covered up until after the election (which it wasn't). There is abso-toot-a-lootly nothing you RWNJs can do about. Obama won!! Ha ha ha, go home.

rachel-3673200 Comment collapsed by the community

Since taking out an American embassy and sodomizing and killing our ambassador failed to be an act of war, why should taking out a drone?

Even though Romney and his lying crew have lost the race, I see there are still hanger-on's, who continue to lie in true Romney fashion. rachel, you do know they closed out those accounts, and you won't be getting paid for those lies, right?

One group that has made our country look weak is the group that doesnt give the office its respect cause they dont like who is in it. Makes it look weak, and its pretty disgusting.

Gee that sounds just like the Bush years. What comes around, goes around.

Decency and class- thats what they teach on Fox News lol.

Well, what I wanted to say has been said many times over. Now, about the other pro obama comments, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

This is just the beginning.

The list starts with multiplying debt, and continues with legally taking it in the butt.

Surprised Iran did this. NOT!

Let's see, there have been no arrests because we don't know for sure who the terrorists are who killed our US Ambassador and three Navy Seals BUT.........

the man who produced the youtube video has been sentenced to a year in prison. Carry on.

As an American citizen, the thought of shooting down a drone flying over MY backyard, invading MY right to privacy and spying on citizens in OUR own sovereign nation isn't making me scream for bloody murder at the Iranians. I applaud you giving my warmongering, world economic enslaving nation credit killer the proverbial middle finger.

Just a thought, one US supercarrier task force has enough firepower on board to wipe off the face of the map the entire Irianian Air Force and Navy without even resupplying.

Here is another thought, Iran never built a supercarrier force but it did build thousands and thousands of missiles to maybe lets say wipe out a supercarrier force?

Hey you right wing clowns you missed Romneys victory web site ite was up!

President Obama won re-election Tuesday night, but someone at the Romney campaign nevertheless went ahead and published the GOP candidate's "victory site," a Web page that outlines how "President-elect Romney" is going to take control. The site was only live for a brief moment, but that's all it takes for some intrepid Interneter to grab a pic of it. The site, complete with the seal of the President-elect, featured sections on Cabinet nominees, how to apply for a position with the administration and details on the Inauguration. That last part might still be helpful if readers swap a few names. Sorry, Mitt

Hate to tell you Jane, but Obama needs no ones help in looking bad. Even with the media as his blanket, he still has a hard time looking good!

Janey

"Really hate to have to say it, but Republicans will continue to try to make Obama look bad for another four years"

pretty sure he will handle that all by himself , with a bit of help from his ace buffoon Biden

Ahhh, the sweet sounds of Newsvine's Republicans sobbing and wailing.

ldo

Waiting for pictures from the situation room.....

Waiting....waiting....waiting.....waiting.

Looks like Mr. Obama is taking care of businesses via his Blackberry on the 9th hole.

==============================================

Were you born stupid and obnoxious, or did you take lessons, you're very good at it.

Max^108

US constantly kept provoking Russia during the Cold

==================================

....do you mean like letting all those Russian "fishing trawlers" to come into our territorial waters right off our military bases, you know, those trawlers with the big and tall electronic listening towers mounted on their masts?

Republicans don't have to make Obama look bad. He does a real good job of it by himself.

Really hate to have to say it, but Republicans will continue to try to make Obama look bad for another four years. They have no intention of working with the Democrats in the House to pass legislation that would benefit all of us.

So far, a lot of the legislation that the Democrats have attempted to pass has been created to hurt us, not benefit us. You should read the fine print of any piece of legislation they have put out over the last few years. How does raising the price of gasoline to $6/gallon benefit us? The American Jobs Act of 2011 has a section that repeals the very things that keep gasoline prices lower. Do you really want to work another job just to pay for the gasoline to get to your first job? I am glad the Republicans blocked that legislation disguised as beneficial, but hurts the economy further with the fine print.

It was designed that way. If the Republicans voted to pass it, the economy would have been worsened as the costs of transportation and fuel drive up the prices of just about everything else. The Republicans would get the blame. If the Republicans voted to crush it or delay its passing, they get the blame for voting against jobs legislation. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't with the current crop of Democrats including Harry Reid, the one who introduced the legislation to hurt the economy. Thanks, Nevada. America appreciates it.

Thanks also, half of America, for putting the President back into office that urged Harry Reid to push this legislation to help fulfill Obama's promise to raise the cost of gasoline on middle class Americans. It also is appreciated.

Will the Watcher

Sure would be nice if you would re-read those history books.

August 1914 - U.S. President Woodrow Wilson
announces the U.S. will remain neutral.

April 6 1917- The United States declares
war on Germany.

November 11 - Germany signs the armistice
at Compiegne, France. Fighting ends on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the
11th month (i.e. 11 a.m. on November 11).

JAN 1960: The CIA sets up a Task Force WH-4,
Branch 4 of the Western Hemisphere Division to implement President Eisenhower's
request for an ambitious covert program to overthrow the Castro.

DEC 8, 1960: D D Eisenhower & The CIA Task Force presents the new
paramilitary concept to the Special Group. The Special Group authorizes use of
Special Forces to train the Strike Force,

Dec 7 1941 Japan attacked Pearl Harbor and
declared war on the US.

Dec 11 1941 Germany and Italy declared war
on the US.

June 25 1950 N Korea attacks US alley S
Korea.

April 24 1980 Operation Eagle Claw (approved by J Carter) Failed to recover 52 US Citizens held hostage by Iran.

In every instance The sitting US President responded to direct attacks by foreign powers except the Bay of Pigs. In that case JFK carried out the plan ordered by DDE a republican.

When a democrat responds to aggression he is a war monger, if he avoids war like the Libya revolution hes a wimp. I know you don't want to hear it but the war in Iraq was Pr-determined before GW Bush was elected. Everyone now knows Iraq did NOT have any WMD, what they do have is lots of OIL.

I hope the Democrats run us right off the fiscal cliff.

And I hope Republicans do to.

And if you don't want the US to, you ARE LYING. Because you re-elected your Democrat and Republican incumbents, didn't ya?

YOU WANT YOUR TAXES RAISED AND YOU WANT YOUR UNIONS GONE. You voted for it. Stop pretending you won't enjoy it when you have less money and less rights. Oh, yeah, go on and pretend you hate Democrats or Republicans. Lying.

retired40

Republicans don't have to make Obama look bad. He does a real good job of it by himself

NICE

Wil Royson

....do you mean like letting all those Russian "fishing trawlers" to come into our territorial waters right off our military bases, you know, those trawlers with the big and tall electronic listening towers mounted on their masts?

Know exactly what your talking about. Those trawler Captains run real fast when we aimed our 5" guns at them. USN destroyer with 2 Twin 5-38 Gun mounts can be scary when your looking at the business end.

Hey guys! TWO Iranian jets repeatedly firing 30 mm cannon rounds COULD NOT hit the drone. Do you have any idea what type of @$$ whoopin' these pilots got from their squadron commander when they landed? As for "WHY" they are still after technology, duh! not looking for a war...yet!

Bluesman:

You said it much better!

Do you think Iran was trying to influence or mess up our election but they missed and this could be a great failed youtube video.

Tell me, is it possible to still have a war the old fashioned way? The way Reagan and Thatcher had them I think was good. We'll talk about peace but if they don't want to have peace, we hit 'em hard and hit 'em often, then back off and ask, do you want to talk about peace now? You can either talk peace with us or just knock off the bull and we will leave you alone but if you start with us again we will hit you hard and hit you often again. I don't think it's wise for us to have these long drawn out wars that make war time companies rich and drain our government's resources.

Well, with Obama in charge they will not have to worry about a thing, so they will continue prodding, probing, and picking at us until......

Well yes the united states. Has enough fire power on a aircraft carrier. To level irans citys. But remember this .Hitler was one man and germany was small as well. And people you know the rest lets not forget before its to late. Fire back

Simple solution in four words: ARM the next Drone.

What a corrupt bunch of scum- don't disclose it until after the election! Russian subs are off the east coast and in the gulf, Obama gave Iran a drone and now they are shooting at our drones, but at least Big Bird is safe. Morons.

So convienent that we're just hearing this now, when it happen days before the election. I wonder how it would have been if a different president was in office.

KENTUCKY USA,my home i love it here,TENNSSEE is nice too!

"The United States informed the Iranians that the U.S. military will continue surveillance flights over the international waters of the Arabian Gulf. Little said that was communicated by the State Department through Swiss officials.

Asked why the incident is just being revealed now — more than one week after the incident and just two days after the presidential election — Little said that the Pentagon does not talk about classified missions. He said that the information had been leaked to the media so he is acknowledging it."

We don't talk about classified missions.... oh but yea, we told Iran we will be doing more flights.

Get your lies straight idiots.

Obviously a surveillance flight over international waters isn't a "classified mission".

How is that "more transparent" government working Dem sheep?

Gee, just a few days ago all the Know it alls was saying how Boy blunder was going to bring home the Bacon and did it happen NOPE, well maybe in a decade or so they just may have a Republican in the White House but till then DEMOCRATS RULE .....

Well they were either just messing around or can't shoot worth a @!$%#. Probably the second.

@Troy1101...... dude, if you think we can attack Iran in one night and wipe them off the face of the map you're nuts! Iraq had no real army to speak of and look how long it took us to take control and even now we still lose troops. Also, attacking Iran would be a huge mistake. You think the rest of the middle east would just watch? You think they'd let us fly the flag on their land? You think, and you know it would happen, that after us killing civilians, trashing their cities, leaving millions home less and with no food and water that they rest of the world would say it's ok? The next time we advance into any country we'd best get it right! One more Iraq and the whole world will be against us!

obama hasn't got the balls to make big decisions. It's a well known fact that we knew were binladen was for 6 months....CIA kept asking obama if they can go in and take him out but he couldn't make the call. Eventually he cracked under pressure because the CIA said we either go now or we're pulling out....he then gave the order. It's also a fact that binladen had nothing to do with 9/11. He never admitted to it....he did however admitted to hating America.

People need to read and research and watch more than just the news!

obama won the other night.....but the United States lost... but hey, if you voted for him - stop complaining!

I'd say that I can't believe that folks would actually laugh at our aircraft being shot at by Iran, but then I simply realize that if they are dumb enough to reelect the worst president in history.........

Oh by the way, Sam, I sure hope all of you lemmings enjoy being unemployed while DEMOCRATS RULE!

I smell that person bibi BigBoy from israel trying to start another war for US using our fine Young Men and women to fight for that Evil Bastard country so little jason isn't disturbed from his "America paid for" cocktail partyin Jerusalem to go and fight for his country.

Don't let that Fat Slob netanYooHoo suck you Prez O.

Phantom

Another conspiracy, the truthers, the birthders now we have "the droners" , you are full of.....

Some of you are going to be surprised when we get attacked again. I still wonder why no one made Obama explain what he meant when he said he would be more flexible after the election. We did however see Big Bird over and over. We will be weak and our enemies will get the best of us and when you get a missile up your ass don't be surprised.

Some of you are going to be surprised when we get attacked again.

I think you republicans took the shock value out of the equation when you let 911 happen during your oh so protective watch.

Jane H.

Don't worry. Obama has proven to handle that by himself just fine. He doesn't even need Biden for that :)

Will the Watcher-I have never seen historical fact twisted so far out of line as in your comment. You know nothing about WW1 and 2. You dishonor the lives of those who died in those wars by using them for your own political fodder. Does the truth mean nothing to you? No actual historian would ever agree that those were "Democrat wars". First, you're basically saying that presidents declare war. Sorry no,Congress votes for decalarations of war. You really need to learn about government. By your reasoning Lincoln is responsible for the Civil War. I bet he'd be surprised to hear that.

WW1- Woodrow Wilson was a liberal. As such he did everything he could to avoid going to war. He said "America is too proud to fight". He thought America could be more usefull as a mediator for peace. This is a matter of record. Unfortunately, by attacking our shipping in our waters, sinking thousands of tons of it and killing hundreds of crew, Germany forced our hand. Or would you rather we have just let that go. What about the Zimmerman documents wherein Germany tried to convince Mexico to start a diversionary war to keep us out of Europe? You didn't mention that and so lie by omission.

WW2- Japan,Germany's ally, attacked our base at Pearl Harbor. Six days later Germany declared war on us. Another point you fail to mention that. You people are talking about war with Iran because a plane fired it's guns in roughly the direction of a drone yet you seem to think, by laying this all at a president's feet, that a declaration of war should have been ignored. Or what do you think should have been our response? Anyway German U-boats were patrolling our shores and sinking ship after ship. Again, what choice did we have?

You people, who would twist history and cheapen the lives of those who defended us in these wars, are sickening. You don't deserve to be Americans if you can't remember our true history.

As for Korea and Vietnam, while I don't agree with those wars (although South Korea is at least free) it's a fact that both Patton and McAuthur thought communism was a threat and must be defeated. So did Reagan. Guess you know better than they.

All you libs crowing about Obama's win will be crying when the austerity programs hit and inflation goes through the roof. Who really will have the last say? Stay tuned.

Will the Watcher

I missed one other little detail.

DD Eisenhower started us into the Vietnam war, caption below from a quick Bing search.

The US had been providing aid and military equipment and training to south Vietnam since 1954. A BBC News item.

This was seven before J F Kennedy took office. The war was escalated it combat war before JFK. It was in all the history books, maybe you could try and read one sometime.

The only good news for the RWNJs is that they won't have to run against Obama again. Hay Bone-er I hear footsteps of your next election sneaking up behind you.
E

Linda M-311663

All you libs crowing about Obama's win will be crying when the austerity programs hit and inflation goes through the roof. Who really will have the last say? Stay tuned.

You may want to rethink your position. Austerity is what Ryan has in his budget. Everything you see happening in Greece is what Mr Ryan proposed except he wanted to CUT the taxes on the wealthy then eliminate 20% of the government work force, reduce Social Security payments and basically devastate the economy. You sound like a person who knows how to run a household. Tell me would you go to your boss and ask for a pay CUT to help pay your bills? Look at the 2001 and 2004 tax cuts Bush gave and tell me how it helped pay off the national debt. Carl Rove told us "debts don't matter" and Bush pushed the national debt up by 6 trillion.

Man, the righties are just full of nastiness today. It was fairly quiet for a couple days and now it's like they all have really bad hangovers. Definitely a bunch of sore losers! I guess it is hard to accept that they were so wrong about being so sure.

You can see just how bad it was watching the Fox News reactions. I really enjoyed Megan Kelly's response when they announce that Fox News calls the win for Obama. She says, "That's the news we've been waiting for, so now the question is what does that mean?" She stammers and tries to grasp the situation in utter shock. Can Obama winning really mean that he won? How could that be? Bret Beir maintains his professionalism but Ms. Kelly is just stunned and looks to be ready to cry. Then she goes down to the little room where they are tallying votes and making their predictions. Asks how could it be and how sure the are. When she's told they are 99.95% absolutely sure and that there is no way there are enough votes left for Romney, it finally starts to sink in. And of course there's Karl Rove in complete denial rattling off numbers and refusing to accept it. Rove who was predicting a Romney landslide must be pinching himself thinking that he must be dreaming because it just can't possibly be true. He spends the next hour and a half trying to convince Romney's campaign not to concede. As it progresses, he doesn't want to give but you can see in his face that he is realizing that he fell for his own hype and is busy trying to devise excuses for why it happened. For a split second or two I felt bad for them. None of the hype was going to change the facts, but when everything you base yourself on is hype, it's hard not to try that same path again. Pretty pathetic. Hype won't change what was a significant Democratic victory.

I'm sure the Fox viewers had the very same level of confidence because that's all they been hearing. Fox pundits saying forget the polls, they're dead wrong. They know crystal clear that it won't even be close. And the Fox viewers ate it up and ran with it. Many bragging on this board days before about just badly Romney would beat Obama. I can imagine the feelings of despair they were going through. They aren't about to get over this. Time will not heal this deep wound.

And then Boehner hints about cooperation and asks Obama to lead them. Then today he says Obama Care is a done deal and they will not be attempting to repeal it, just throwing salt in the wound that hasn't even scabbed over yet. Yeah, I guess I understand why they're grouchy. But it's pretty pointless now.

As for the drone incident. Makes no sense to use a Predator in Iranian territory. There are much better choices. I have no doubt it was doing what we said it was doing.

It is ridiculous to think the pilots couldn't hit the target. If they indeed were trying, they are horrible pilots. Fly straight at it from in front or behind, you can't miss unless you're shooting blanks. Even from the side, it is flying so slow it would be hard to miss. The round is flying at almost 3000fps, the Predator at about 220fps. From a 1/4 mile away you just barely have to lead it. If they can't hit it, they suck.

Personally, I think it was mainly just stirring the pot and trying to provoke a response. The question is whether it came from high up or some rouge commander or pilots. No doubt the carrier knew exactly what was going on while it happened. It's not too clear how far away they were, although probably far enough that the pilots could easily be back over Iranian territory before we launched a counter attack against them. I don't think the Iranians are stupid enough to mess with someone who can shoot back. This kind of thing is a dangerous game and just gave plenty of reason to shoot down any Iranian craft getting too near a carrier. But maybe that's what they're hoping for. An "unprovoked attack" and downing of their aircraft would be used to get some world support. I don't see them trying to start a war, but I also think they are beginning to get desperate as their economy is getting completely trashed. They'd like to get some sympathy and maybe get an easing of the sanctions. Desperate people do stupid things.

Nigols66,

Your comments are so scattered and out of touch with reality that I don't even know where to begin but I'll try;

1. Iran is not an ARAB nation. It is a PERSIAN nation.

2. Our closest ally and friend in the middle east is Saudi Arabia. Geography lesson needed bud? Right across the gulf from IRAN.

3. Our nation has many ARAB friends and Allies. We also have a couple of Persian Allies. Iran has NO ARAB allies.

4. Our military is in the gulf to do 3 things; Keep the shipping lanes open, Protect our Arab allies from Iran, and enforce sanctions....not to go to war with Iran.

5. Our military indeed keeps enough fire power and has enough intel to completely disable Iran's missle defense systems, their air force and Navy in a good long night. I did not say a single word about wiping Iran itself off the map.

6. You, my friend, need to research before you blab off about things you most certainly know very little about.

and finally,

7. I don't read any of these posts after a certain time because ill informed high schoolers and college kids jump on here and start in with wack job conpiracy theories and....well....suppose you can read your own post for that.

I think Troy1101 just handed Nigols66 a heaping cup of pwnage :D

Derek,

I suppose if one is going to "set me straight" they had better get it right. He through this in at the end;

"obama won the other night.....but the United States lost... but hey, if you voted for him - stop complaining!"

Not sure why either....just weird scattered wide sweeping babbling with no details or insight.

He didn't resort to name calling like alot of peeps so credit to him. I have to assume youth and an inexperienced perspective there. If he ever has the pleasure of traveling with a US carrier strike group he would know what I am talking about.

That what I got from it too.

Yep, thats what I surmised too.

Are we REALLY worried about them building nukes if they cant even hit an unmanned drone while following it closely?

No kidding. He couldn't even shoot down a predator? That's pretty sad.

"They shot down the predator; that's one less slot for me."

Yep. That's pretty much got my vote, too!

That is why they want nukes. It's because they can't hit anything. With a nuke you only have to get close.

Indeed, these are slow moving, remote piloted, defenseless aircraft. This Iranian fighter jockey, fired on it what, three times and missed? That is pretty damn sad! I have a feeling if the drone operator turned on the jet, the Iranian pilot would have jammed out of there screaming in fear!!

That was merely a payback. Do you think its a coincidence that the drone that "wandered" into Iran's airspace, and the iranians refused to give back gave them a virus in their computer system? I think not. It slowed them down on their bomb building.

Remember how mild mannered Obama was when he asked for it back. And Iran said no. then i bet the Iranians immediately hooked it up so they could see the programming in the drone........we've all been warned about downloading from unfamiliar sources..............

The SU-25 is a ground attack aircraft. There are trainer versions. The story does not indicate the particular variant. It is likely that the Iranian pilot was not actually attempting to hit the Predator.

I bet returning to base was interesting. He'll never live this one down. Maybe he can blame it on a 'maintenance issue'. :)

That is pretty funny. An Iranian SU-25 was a punked by an unmanned US drone. I think the Israelis can relax a little!

"Little said that the Predator was never in Iranian airspace."

Most of us probably suspect otherwise.

Go USA!

Do you really think he way trying to shoot it down?

Dale Shhhh, you'll shatter the illusion, after all how better to convince the US public to support a war then by telling them it'll be a walk over?

I took that, and would also speculate that this in actuality happened over Iranian airspace and is a further attempt to provoke them to war.

Joe,

Why shoot at all if not to shoot it down? Warning shots don't mean a lot here.

All kidding aside, actually lining up a shot on a small maneuverable aircraft with a cruising speed of around 80 mph is not as easy as it sounds. I think that of the combat-capable aircraft that the Iranians have, the SU-25 is probably the best choice for the mission. It can carry a lot of bullets and can mount up to 8 30 mm cannons.

I wonder if the Navy will start running CAP for the predators now?

What would we do if they flew drones so close to us? Would we believe it was regular surveilance with things so tense? Sounds like we were begging for it...were we? Aren't we pushing it too much? What does Saudi say?

an su-25 isn't a fighter jet, its the close air support fighter, made for hitting things on the ground...not in the air

Will the Watcher

No, we went back to Tehran, took a que from libby democrats, and blamed Bush.

Why not? Bush failed at everything else.

This SU25 may not have good or any Radar Fire Control ( Gunlaying).

An MQ-1 Predator's standard speed is 70 knots vs. the average stall speed of a jet of around 140 knots with flaps. If you have ever tried to hit a moving target from another moving target, it isn't quite as easy as you might think via standard intuition. Trying to hit something while going more than twice its speed is fairly damn hard. If that something has the ability to evade by turning inside your turning radius that makes getting a bead on it even harder.

Will the Watcher - or maybe he took a que from republicans and blamed Obama?

YAWN.

1. If that pilot could not hit a slow moving drone he should ask himself what are my chances of surviving 10 seconds with a F-18 Flown by an American?

2. All Iranian pilots should ask themselves how well did the Iraqis do against the US Air Force in either gulf war? Answer 44 shot down 137 ran away to a foreign country and were impounded and never returned. In the second war their planes were all buried in the ground to hide them and they never flew.

They should ARM these DRONES to the teeth, so next time some f*cker tries to fire an AK from some freken Russian-made SU, they get shredded to smitherines...

I would like to see the terrorist's face inside the cockpit as the Drone fires back...

"I kill you"...."I kill you"...

Not an AK - rather a Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-30-2 - If he was shooting an AK from the cockpit, maybe that better explains why it was so hard?

LMAO!! 2 Iranian planes can't shoot down 1 singal drone?? "Oh buddy, my big nose got in the way"

julea - We would probably do nothing, we had a Russian nuclear sub patrolling the Gulf of Mexico this summer and it wasn't known until the Coast Guard saw the sub in international waters off of Florida.

The Su-25 is a ground attack aircraft (about the same role at an A-10) and its gun is a 30mm fixed gun that is aimed by aiming the aircraft. Since the gun is intended for CAS it does not have a pipper that is very useful for air-to-air. Normally the Su-25 would engage an aerial target with missiles, but the Predator is too stealthy for most missiles to hold a lock. And the gun is made doubly useless by the disparity in speeds. Even on tail approach at reasonable speeds (>200kts) the pilot would overtake the much slower drone so briefly that there would be little time to fire the gun before the target is overshot. And the drone is so maneuverable that it would just seem to disappear with any sort of hard sudden maneuver. Shooting down a slow-moving target from a jet is a lot harder than people think.

And the Iranians are a little touchy about drones. During the Iran-Iraq War, the US flew U-2's over Iran and gave PHOTINT to our buddy Sadaam Hussein. At one point the photo reconnaissance information was used to kill thousands of Iranians with gas made in vans provided to Sadaam by his buddy Ronnie Reagan as a "birthday present." And, in violation of every international law, the US got caught flying drones over Iran when Iran embarrassingly took control of a stealth drone and landed it at an Iranian air base. Does anyone really think that 1) the Iranians have any reason to trust us, or 2) that the US is not secretly conspiring with others against Iran as they have done continuously for around 60 years? So, they shoot at a drone and miss --- big deal. The pilot got to fire his gun and nothing was hurt.

US has already committed a documented act of war against Iran by flying a military into Iran's airspace.

This is not an act of war, just a friendly hello.

Nice Google research Chris, but I dont see it that way.

The pilots could have easily shot this drone down. With your rationale, no one would every be able to hit a stationary object, such as a tank on the ground. They do it all the time in strafing runs. Tracers are used to spot the trajectory for the most part. An object in the air, moving half the speed of the aircraft, which equates to a much longer reaction time than being stationary, would be a cinch. The Iranians have some of the best trained fighter pilots in the world.

There's no way the commander who commented "they were trying to shoot it down" would be able to ascertain that by a radar return.

And lastly, shooting down an unmanned surveillance vehicle would not be considered an act of war, unless of course Fox News is reporting it. They all collectively got a b*ner when they heard this, I'm sure.

Well it's pretty simple. In the desert, for thousands of years, the tribesmen never worried about boundaries, fences or other man made borders. No one owned any certain area. They just went wherever they liked, whenever they liked. So in their warped ancient minds, 'anywhere' is fair territory for these goat humpin' sons-a-bitches.....if they want to shoot at "somethin' over there..." they just go over there and shoot at it.......We should subscribe to the same theory of cross territorial wandering! Works for them! Why not for us??

If you haven’t figured it out yet... Fox news and the Right Wing media have been lying to you. Over the last 14 years the Republican Party has had the attitude of our way or the highway. They have been being led by a special interest group run by Grover Norquist. Why do you think making a pledge to a special interest group has America's best interest in mind?

Haven't you wondered why you get so angry at the mention of a Democrat?

You have been the victim of Coercive Persuasion.

To impose a set of usually political or religious beliefs on somebody by the use of various coercive methods of indoctrination, including destruction of the victim's prior beliefs condition somebody to behave differently or increasing slight beliefs or fears: to induce somebody to believe or do something, e.g. to buy a new product or vote a different way, especially by means of constant repetition or advertising.

The tactics that the right wing are using were perfected by the Soviet Union. If it is repeated
enough time's you will begin to repeat it as fact. Here is how they do it... Have you ever heard the
right media say "there was a study done" (but no reference to who did the study) "we heard several people say", "people have said", "Someone heard" and continually repeat the same thing time and time again as fact even though it's not?

Here is an example "The liberal media has taken over". Here are the facts about the take over. I will use network TV as an example

100% owned by FOX

Phoenix- KSAZ-TV ++ 10 (10) and KUTP-45 (26)

Los Angeles-KTTV 11 (11) KCOP -13 (13) KTLA 5 (5)

Washington,D.C.-WTTG 5 (36), WDCA 20 (35)

Ocala - Gainesville,FLWOGX 51 (31)

Orlando -Daytona Beach WOFL 35 (22) WRBW 65 (41)

Tampa - St. Petersburg WTVT 13 (12)

Atlanta WAGA-TV 5 (27)

Chicago WFLD-TV 32 (31)

Gary, Indiana WPWR-TV 50 (51)

Baltimore WUTB 24 (41)

Boston WFXT 25(31)

Detroit WJBK-TV 2 (7)

Minneapolis -St. Paul KMSP-TV 9 (9) WFTC 29 (29)

Secaucus, New Jersey WWOR-TV 9 (38)

New York City WNYW 5 (44)

Philadelphia WTXF-TV 29 (42)

Memphis WHBQ-TV13 (13)

Austin, Texas KTBC-TV 7 (7)

Dallas - Fort Worth KDFW-TV 4 (35)

KDFI-TV 27 (36)

Houston KRIV 26(26)KTXH 20 (19)

Partially owned by FOX and FOX affiliates

Birmingham - Tuscaloosa– Anniston WBRC-TV 6 (50)

San Francisco - Oakland- San Jose KBHK-TV (now KBCW) 44 (45)

Denver KDVR 31 (32)

Fort Collins, Colorado KFCT (KDVR) 22 (21)

Atlanta WATL-TV 36 (25)

Boston WCVB-TV 15 (20)

Kansas City, Missouri WDAF-TV 4 (34)

St. Louis KTVI 2 (43)

High Point - Greensboro-Winston-Salem, N.C. WGHP 8 (35)

Cleveland – Akron WJW-TV 8 (8)

Portland, Oregon KPTV 12 (12)

Dallas - Fort Worth KDAF 33 (32)

San Antonio KMOL-TV (now WOAI-TV) 4 (48)

Salt Lake City KSTU13 (28) KTVX 4 (40)

Milwaukee WITI-TV 6 (33)

As can see its quite a list all Owned by or partially owned by 1 man Rupert Murdock. Here is just an example in California we have 7 network TV stations 3 of them are wholly owned by FOX ; 13, 11 and 5 .. 3 out of 7 check how many are owned in your city now remember that lots of these stations have sister stations that are not on the list but you can easily find out.

Now lets talk about radio. You now know who Bain Capital (Romney’s Baby) is right? Did you know he still owns 51% of the company? This is called a controlling share.

Bain Capital owns Clear Channel which owns 866 radio stations and Premiere Radio Networks, a national radio network that serves nearly 5,800 radio station affiliates and has over 213 million weekly listeners. Programs include the Rush Limbaugh Show, Glenn Beck and the Sean Hannity Show.

That is a ton of radio stations all saying the same thing and all owned
by 1 company. So as you can see Rush, Glen Beck, Hannity and many, many more
right wing talk show hosts are on the republican freindly pay roll.

"All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting." ~ George Orwell

OK and what is "East" of Kuwait? Why it's Iran of course....International Air Space is whatever the Pentagon says it is today no doubt.

BTW We claim a 200 mile "exclusion zone" and you can only imagine what would happen to any Iranian Drones flying that close to New York City, Washington DC, Houston TX or LA!

This is just one more example of the Mega Corporate Media's endless attempts to "Drum Up" another "Not War" for the Wall Street Globalists Fun & Profits at the expense of our Precious Blood & Treasure!

Impeach Obama 2013!

"In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell

If it is in COUNTRY not the US, they have every right to shoot it down...why are we crying about this

Because it wasn't in their country; it was 16 miles offshore.

@D,Man,

Not so much google research as that I'm an old intelligence analyst and this is old hat.

But the difference is that the fire control system in the Su-25 basically takes over the control of the aircraft to fire the centerline cannon. The pilot, in a dive, puts the pipper on the target and the fire control computer helps the pilot adjust dive angle and airspeed to keep the pipper on the target. It is the same as on the A-10. But the reason is that on a CAS situation, the target is either fixed or slow-moving and all the dynamics are controlled by the fire control computer.

But in attacking another aircraft, the Su-25 has nothing byt a reticule reflex sight. It will show him a pipper in the general area of the direction gun aim, but it is wildly inaccurate and the pilot must adjust the trajectory visually to compensate for airspeed and distance. And, because the drone is stealthy he can't use his radar or missiles. So when he finally locates the drone visually, which is difficult because the drone has a tiny cross-section. The pilot must then fly at a ever-changing spot directly above the drone, which is highly maneuverable because of its low speed. The pilot gets about 2 seconds or less to then positively identify his target, arm his guns, and get off a few rounds. No tracers are generally used with 30mm cannons because they only carry a couple of hundred rouns to start with. But after firing a half-second burst, the pilot now has to peel off to avoid ramming the target. That is just the nature of centerline cannons. So from the time the pilot first sees the target to when he has overshot it and must completely re-acquire it is about 3 seconds. It is just a much different situation. It is one thing when you have two modern fighters going after one another, and entirely another when the target is significantly slower than the attacker. In fact, that difference allowed a couple of A-1 Sandies to shoot down a couple of MiGs in Vietnam. The A-1's simply slowed to a near stall, allowed the MiGs to overshoot them with very little chance of hitting them and then cut loose all the rockets and guns for the MiG to fly through as he overshot over the top of the Sandy. (I even have a copy of an original tape from Vietnam in which a Sandy pilot yells over guard, "You've been had by a Spad, Dad.")

the way I see 3 senarios on this incident

1) Iranian fighters were lousy shooters 2) warning shots to avoid providing the WH an excuse to escalate war with Iran which would make Bibi very happy (he would rather see American blood spilled & treasure)

We have been down this road before

Remember the A Team? They couldn't hit a car in front of them 50 feet away, with machine guns, shooting 20 minutes of a 30 minute episode... and embarrassed the military every single week, ( well almost every single week ). What it did was train people to NOT learn to aim, just have a machine gun, because the new victim of choice is the innocent bystander. Just think how many Home Boys that Iranian fighter pilot might have hit on the ground, as secondary casualties. What goes up, must come down. What we really need to do is give the Iranians a token minor victory. They'll all be out in the street shooting up in the air. There goes the power lines, there goes the window panes, there goes the rain proof roofing tiles. Don't waste a good drone... send in a blimp. That should be big enough and slow enough to hit, and give them cause for a shooting celebration.

Will the Watcher

So you're just the typical RepubliCON dingbat.

One sentence for you buddy : We won the election, and we'll win it again in 2016.

And blaming WWI/II on Democrats? How pathetic and desperate are you? I'm so glad we just won both the electoral college AND the popular election...by over 3 million votes! All your fear mongering, voter blocking and lies still couldn't win you and your kind the election. You are all through.

Bye bye! Can't say we'll miss you.

How is working the Obama foreign policies. Obama got all wrong , did Obama got grats from the Islamic Brotherhood for his reelection. Are we better of in the Meddle east.

We are still waiting answer from Benghazi, his reelection is not a new start, who is going to held accountable for the terrorist attack, 4 American died and the media bias hide Obama/Hillary failure under the rug to shield the Campaigner in Chief , who went to Nevada at the time those brave Americans were killed. Hillary has no chance to be elected in 2016 , his whole department is a mess.

Bluesman-1288104

The thing I take from this is that Iranian fighter pilots must pretty much suck.

the media has never told a false story, there have never been an agenda, the media is your neighbor, your friend..to serve you honest good real news with no bias and no personal opinions by its employees.....

you will never know the truth, stop filling in the details your President leaves out...... but at least he will gladdly leave seeds of his hatred for any opposition, with you instead of accounting for the whole story

Perhaps our unarmed drones need a doomsday sting in their tails? You shoot at me and I'll make sure that you are blown to rat-schmidt. Sadly, massive retaliation is the ONLY language the Iranian military seem to understand.

And lastly, shooting down an unmanned surveillance vehicle would not be considered an act of war, unless of course Fox News

At least Fox report news, the media bias is selective to report only news that fit their agenda. That is the difference, and liberals hate Fox because they do their job.

the liberal media has never told a false story, there have never been an agenda, the media is your neighbor, your friend..to serve you honest good real news with no bias and no personal opinions by its employees

( Sarcasm)

let me get this right.. someone takes a shot at you .. misses... so you should just walk away?

you tree hugging wannabe hippies are morons! and so is that pathetic excuse of a president

Man are these right wingers ever going to give it up? I know losing is bad but darn why take it so hard. The trolls seem to be gone for the most part but the die hard idiots are still here.

Who cares if the Iranian pilot was trying to shoot down the drone or not. The real story is it happened on 11/01 and just conviently "leaked" out after the election. sigh

Not to worry Obummer has sent Billary to Iran with a box of chocolates and an apology for crazymandingajad. It's handled move along.

Out comes more patriotic BS to rile up the hawks to support another war.

Asked whether the Iranian jet was firing warning shots, Little said the jet "fired to take it down." He would not speculate on whether this constitutes an act of war.

"There is absolutely no precedent" for an incident like this, he said.

More saber rattling to convince Americans spend more $trillions on weapons and send many more of our young to be slaughtered--for what? To support that little war-mongering imp of a country and to make the weapons mfgrs immensely richer.

At 4:50 a.m. EDT on Nov. 1, an Iranian SU-25 Frog Foot jet fired on a U.S. MQ-1 Predator drone that was conducting routine surveillance in international waters over the Arabian Gulf, Pentagon spokesman George Little said.

This happened before the election. Another political dodge by the President. I despise this man!!!

I couldn't agree more. The pilots involved in this tragedy are quite off chart and will most likely not be getting any blames from their government and NO NEED TO APOLOGIZE IRAN we know you're not like that.

@ Chris,

I liked your second analysis, I stand corrected, sir

But I still don't agree with 95% of your postings :-)

I think O'bama should apologize, and then reimburse them for the rounds they spent.

This is what happens when we exercise a diplomacy of appeasement! Our embassies burned, our consulates destroyed, our ambassadors killed and now they are shooting at our air assets.

If Bush or Reagan were in the White House that wouldn't have happened!

And the worst is yet to come!

Not only is O'bama disingenuous, but now Iran knows that it can commit an act of war without repercussion

WHY? , as in why read his crap

what is your take on George Soros?

we will stand by and savor your elitist view and idealogue inspired brilliance

Uncle Sam states that the drone was in international waters and you believe them. What about that drone that crashed in Iran. Yo keep it on the down low, but I got some WMD in my back yard. Don't tell anybody.

Mitt Romney is being proven correct in how weak Obama is. He is hardly a real man and is nothing but a coward. This is an act of war and not even so much as a word from Obama...what is he waiting for, Americans to be killed next? But yea, that happened in Libya while he watched it unfold and did nothing to stop it. This man is a traitor and the scum of the earth. It's time to take back our country.

Enough with the rhetoric already, Cons. You lost, you're butthurt, we know. Grab some ice and get over it.

If Iranian jets and/or pilots can't hit an unmanned American drone, then we should worry more about some angry blind Arab armed with the hull of a bass fiddle.

You have been suckered America.

The unarmed drone should have fired back.

The only sucker is you Kornfed.

secondbrother

The only sucker is you Kornfed.

I didnt vote for O'bama

I'm so happy that this happen on November 1,2012. It goes to show you who your president really is. HAHAHA were's the transparency. Like usual he know he has a bunch of @!$%# head for followers. I'm rejoicing at the fact that your president and his Liberal media cover up another story that make two so far that we know off Benghazi and now Iran. hey what else is he going to cover up next Just to keep his people happy. Oh my God the Nation is going down down in history. HIP HIP

This is a lame attempt to stage a Gulf of Tonkin style false flag incident as a pretext for war.

Obama will never lift a finger at his blood people. He is American but his Blood thru his father is Muslim. You could jump scream or what ever Blood is Blood. You take the Italian most were born here but they feel for their nation you see them that with pride they carry a sticker on their car showing their flag along with the US flag. Look at the Hispanic they do the same so Blood is Blood and Obama won't sacrifice the blood of his people for yours.

So, here I am, flying my heavily armed Mig Jet just off the coast of Manhattan, and I have a great view of lower Manhattan and the new World Trade Center....and, what !? I'm being jumped by American F-16s !! How dare they ,,,I'm a whopping 16 miles away from their territory ...

The jerk, above...GregorioO57 would be calling out the president whether this happened on 11-1-12 or on 11-15-12...he'd be saying on 11/1/12 that the President was just using this story to garner support for the White House...Poor Greg...doesn't think he'll reach age 17 before the Fascists take control of the White House again !

Right now LIAM you and your Messiah could continue to have control. I'm Relaxing collecting my rent here from people like you. I for one don't like wars My brother, My nephew did three tour in Iraq and was permanently wounded. But i believe the United States should continue to be the #1 in the world. But you and your Messiah would like to see US as # 2 or 3.

kornfed

exactly, you're a sucker.

The pilot got to fire his gun and nothing was hurt.

Except the pilot. He likely will be punished severely for missing the target.

no innocent drones were hurt during the making of this story...to many people not enough x-lax...

Truth be known the Iranians are still Pissed about the propaganda film 300. Those 300 spartans kickin all that bad ass Persian Ass made them mad as hell and there not going to take it anymore. "THIS IS SPARTA!" If 300 Spartans can build a wall of Persian bodies, Then why cant we? Sorry i forgot we are a nation who sends all the best we have to offer to fight a war, and bring them home just before its over so they cannot claim Victory. Smells Like another Vietnam to me. Gotta love those SPARTANS they were REAL MEN.

secondbrother:

kornfed is making you look like a fool. Quit while you're a head.

Agreed that their pilots must be bad shots. With shooting like that their enemies shouldn't worry overmuch.

Why are we blocking the internet from the public though? Are we blocking their newspapers as well? Even if regulated by the government, the internet is a window to the outside world and to other views other than the views they're being force-fed by their leaders. We should turn their internet back on.

"There is absolutely no precedent." Of course there is. When a hostile act is committed by the military of one nation against another it can reasonably be considered a act of war whether manned or not.

Probably the biggest reason this was hush hush until now was to get the election over and done as smoothly as possible.

Mitko Pitko I am reminded of a saying as to why you should never use the strategy of 'Appeasement' with a country like Iran that we know is lying and would just soon lie to our face, and then build Nukes and use them. And this saying almost always is true. "An appeaser is the one in the crowd who feeds the Tiger in hopes that it will eat him last" I prefer the other methods of dealing with the Tiger.

I also find the timing of this being released very suspect, too much of a coincidence that it happened the 1st of November and is just now, after the election to be reported although it would not have changed the outcome of the race...someone thought it could obviously.

Will the Watcher - your Obama hate must seeem tired to even you this morning. It's a great day for the country with another four more years of Obama assured.

All these appear to be cooked up stories just like before Iraqi wars.

Before 1991, Saddam’s Iraq fought for many years with Iran despite Iran getting US arms during President Ragan’s time. Iraqis and Iranians killed each other.

Such a brave Saddam lost 1991 war within month to NATO forces with Iraqi Operation Desert Storm.

All of a sudden, Iran is becoming a big power with nukes, drones, jets and so on! Iranians can’t get anything straight even in Iraq and Syria where they are supporting their Shiites brethren.

Iranians appear to be doing all those which they have never done! They may be most brave when attacking a girl, woman, minority like Jew especially in a mob!

WHEREISWALDO; persians are not tribe mans. they have contributed so much to civilization that it won't fit in your peanut brain. they have some of the best pilots in the world. they didn't want shot down the drone . it was warning. unlike the u.s in 1988 shooting down flight 655 iranian civil airliner over persian gulf killing all 350 passengers.

rameshm2

WHEREISWALDO; persians are not tribe mans. they have contributed so much to civilization that it won't fit in your peanut brain. they have some of the best pilots in the world. they didn't want shot down the drone . it was warning. unlike the u.s in 1988 shooting down flight 655 iranian civil airliner over persian gulf killing all 350 passengers.

Accuracy doesn't seem to flow through your birdbrained history lesson. That's Persian with a capital P.

Although I am more than well aware of much of the Persian empire's history, I am also aware of their current inabilities to become part of the broader Human society on this planet. Every society has had its 'wanderers' including the Persians. I'll stand by my comments and disregard your attempt to dress the Iranian Regime in any other light. Maybe you forgot that they tried to make themselves believe that things like the Holocaust, didn't happen. Therefore, to trust their history, re-written by them, is not to be trusted. Today's Iranian Regime is nothing like the Persian Empire of old. Their whack-O clerics through their Theocratic government has seen to that Mr. Expert.

We don't know why," the Iranians were shooting at the drone, the official said, insisting the drone did not cross into Iranian airspace.

Right. Of course we all know too the Poles fired on the Germans to draw them into the invasion of Poland.

While the Iranian government is pretty bad our government isn't spotlessly clean either.

randomreturn

Because it wasn't in their country; it was 16 miles offshore.--------------------

Was it? You are taking the word of one man, un-named, who represents a country who lied, for example, about weapons of mass destruction to justify the invasion of a country not involved in 9/11. Didn't a lot of people also question the administration's story on the attack in Bengahzi? Personally I doubt most of what our government says.

Phantom Beast,

Your posts definitely define you as moron of the year. thanks for visiting.

Hey Arkius guess what? I saw your mother again last night, it was pleasurable.

Well, all you clowns can guess all you want. My brother's friend's cousin's x-roommate is in the military doing super-secret eavesdropping on Iran. Apparently the Iranian pilot had to disengage after a couple of shots because the big rubber band that runs along the length of his plane was almost out of twists and he had to return to base to have the propeller re-wound. By the time he got airborne again the drone was long gone.

Was it? You are taking the word of one man, un-named, who represents a country who lied, for example, about weapons of mass destruction to justify the invasion of a country not involved in 9/11.

Until they found a collection of accurate nuclear plans and schematics and video evidence of nuclear scientists working with Saddam Hussein, and several American soldiers were exposed to radiation in a tunnel system that wasn't supposed to be there, all the while having within their borders over 550 metric tons of yellow cake uranium. Then, it became worth it.

Hussein also was funding terrorists and their families for the bombing of Jews and Americans. That made it worth it, too. But, feel free to believe otherwise. You cannot help that the mainstream media kept that from you. Of course, classified missions to remove those materials didn't help, either, I'm sure. :-)

Look's like we have finally defeated Arkius! To hell with you troll!

Clearly reading comprehension isnt your strong suit - they didnt "release" anything.

It was leaked, they are acknowledging it...such a hard concept to grasp, huh?

No one except Wikileaks releases classified information, Republicans or Democrats, conservatives or liberals. It's called "national defense" for a reason. And it has nothing to do with the president. Romney would do the same.

you are stupid? has NOTHING to do with what President Obama wants to do and EVERYTHING to do with what President Obama DOESN'T want to do. rwnj joiks like yourself is what gets our sons and daughters killed. volunteer your own children, jacka$$.

Some dumb comments here. Obama is going to do the same thing as every other dem or rep. It was going to happen...another war. you will see.

conspiracy theories make you sound like an idiot, just saying...

What a wingnut... Obama didn't even release this story, it somehow leaked to the press...

and what difference does it make?

Yes because a story indicating that the Iranian Air Force is staffed by idiots hurts him so....

R. Scalzo - dont you get it, Obama looks "WEAK" because he didnt immediately thump his chest, scream like a mad man and declare WAR! DUH!

gosh, you wimpy liberals just dont get it - when someone threatens your manhood, you show them who's boss.

this is why America is going down the drain, they wont jump into costly (and pointless) wars when someone throws a rock at our drones (and misses).

America Died on Nov 6th, 2012 - via suicide.

Im betting tomorrow, Iran will nuke us...all because we failed to respond like REAL TOUGH SONABITCHES DO!

Join the military Jessica, sounds like a good career path for you.

Wow... You people can easily beleive whatever the government, media and press says... That's sad!!! You know how easy it is to cover up a story, or hold information till its the perfect time or to say it's "leaked information" to turn peoples attention away to the real fact that Obama was more focused on being re-elected!!! Now that Obama has a definite 4 years, he will now turn his attention to Iran which was something he wanted to do a long time ago but couldn't because he didn't want to jeperdise his re-election opportunity!!!

WWIII is at our door step!!! Obama doesn't have to worry about trying to get re-elected no more!!! Now he will turn his attention to try and find an excuse to bomb Iran... And this maybe it!!! Not to mention, the russian president said "They will fight with Iran if attacted by the US and/or Israel." Hmmmmm.... Is everyone prepared!!!! Dec. 21st 2012. The sun is acting weired!!! Solar flares... 2013.... Terrible year to be apart of...

Look, even if nothing happens on December 21, 2012... What is the most evil number!!! 13. Right.... Well...what do you have to say about 2013. Pretty scary hugh... Illuminati loves number 13. So... All I have to say is that if we all don't get hit by solar flares.... Then the next thing coming is WWIII or Martial Law... Because I have a good feeling that something is going to happen. A lot of people are fed up with all the secrets and cover ups that our government has been doing for decades including 9/11. And I'm worried that the truth will be told...

AND THATS WHEN THE S**T HITS THE FAN!!!

Just be prepared for the months to come... Be prepared. Stock up on water, tents, food, clothing personal items whatever to get by. Because something "Will Happen" and don't wait till the last second when it does happen and you can't prepare... Prepare now!!! Do not wait!!!

I'm serious... We all live in a different world now... Then ever before... We will never be told the truth about things... It's been like that sence ancient times... So what makes you think it doesnt happen now... Open your eyes, open your mind and open your hearts. We all shall be there for each other and hold hands and march side-by-side as sisters and brothers. God bless!!!

The United States of America must retaliate appropriatly or we are saying one of two things. One, it never really happened, or two, this behavior is acceptable.

Sgation

Some dumb comments here. Obama is going to do the same thing as every other dem or rep. It was going to happen...another war. you will see.

Hard headed Israel is going to push America's hand for sure. Netanyahu thought by backing Romney, stupid Americans would vote him in thereby giving Netanyahu exactly what he wanted, a partner in crime. Israel is not worried about non-existent nuclear weapons, Israel wants Iran, and all Iranians dead.

The only reason why the Jew, Sheldon Adelson poured $53 million into Mitt Romney's campaign was to get America involved in another war, and save him millions in taxes. These people thrive on war, it's their companies that produce the vast majority of American war materials, guns, ammo, tanks, missiles, camo's, MRE's, boots....they thrive on war, just like Cheney did.

Maybe we could use these two Iranian flying aces in a Top Gun 2 Movie, suit up Maverick : )

@Paul,

Given that the US got caught flying drones over Iran quite illegally, maybe there is a third option --- make one set of rules that both countries can follow.

It is a major consideration that the US Navy, unlike most of the rest of the world does not recognize the UNCLOS 12-mille territorial waters. While the US claims up to 200 nm as territorial waters, it only recognizes 3 miles in regard to other countries. In addition to the 12 nm territorial waters, there is a 12 nm additional "contiguous waters" in which the country has legal and military authority. The US Navy also does not recognize territorial waters areound islands, except US-owned islands where that claim 100nm as territorial waters.

So the drone at 16 miles off the coast was just outside Iranian territorial waters, but well within Iran's contiguous waters, so the Iranians had every right, under international law, to shoot down the drone as an unlawful incursion. Also it is also quite possible that the drone was within the airspace/territorial waters around one of the many islands that run along the Iranian coast. This would give the Iranians even more reason and more right to shoot down an encroaching drone.

Maybe the US could join UNCLOS and the rest of the world and these sorts of things would be less likely since you would not have one side saying 3 miles and the other saying 25 miles.

What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

So, according to

12-mille territorial waters. While the US claims up to 200 nm as territorial waters, it only recognizes 3 miles in regard to other countries. In addition to the 12 nm territorial waters, there is a 12 nm additional "contiguous waters" in which the country has legal and military authority. The US Navy also does not recognize territorial waters areound islands, except US-owned islands where that claim 100nm as territorial waters.

We claim 12 miles for territorial waters and 200 nm as the EEZ; same as we count territorial waters for everyone else. Archipelagic waters get more complicated, but that's not a factor in the case of where the Predator was in the Arabian Gulf.

I'm surprised the administration didn't claim it was just a small group of video protesters firing bottle rockets.

@randomreturn,

We claim a 12-mile territorial waters for OURSELVES, but we, since we are not a signatory to UNCLOS and maintain that the 1600's Dutch 3-mile limit based on how far a canon ball would fly is what we recognize for OTHERS. We do not claim or recognize contiguous waters. And we do not recognize the 200 mile economic exclusion zone --- instead we claim the entire continental shelf. And we do not recognize Iran's archipelaigic waters at all. We only recognize a 3-nm circle around islands instead. And it WAS a factor since there are offshore islands (settled and with military bases for the most part) all along the Iranian coast.

The US has always conducted aggressive surveillance within the territorial waters of other countries. That does not make it right or legal. But the lesson of the Pueblo is that you violate internation law at your peril. When the purblo was captured 4nm off the North Korean coast, we loudly claimed that it was in international waters. No other country agreed with that claim.

And if you really want to see some stupid sophistry around what we claim is Iranian territorial waters, look at the incident in the Iran-Iraq War when the Navy shot down a civilian airliner on a scheduled and on-time flight, claiming that it was in international waters when every pert of the action was in Iranian airspace and territorial waters. That is a good case where we claimed that Iran was only entitled (because we said so, that's why) to a 3-mile territorial limit.

All this is why the US is not a signatory of UNCLOS. Iran is a signatory. And we have given the Iranians very good reasons in the past to think the worst about the US and to suspect every US move as possibly an illegal provocation --- from shooting down civilian airliners, to providing WMD's to Iran's enemies, to getting caught illegally flying "undetectable and invulnerable" drones over every part of Iran. Put yourself in their shoes for a minute.

This do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do stuff is a bunch of crap that only makes other countries, even our allies, fail to trust us or believe us. In a lot of ways it is difficult to fault the Iranians.

I'll stick with what I learned in my Law of the Sea course at Naval War College that we recognize 12 nm (and the fact that our charts recognize 12nm from the Iranian shore as their territory rather than the three miles you state).

If it does not effect Mr Obamas future directly it does not matter. He needs a excuse to get rid of the military for future votes from immigrants who come here unchallenged and no law to stop them...and no military to prevent invasion....Obama will never go to war....his plan is to let this country remain as exposed as possible to future foreign voters...his only chance at changing his term limits is to let foreigners over who are "dying" to have a voice in their new country, the U$A

The Middle East Countries/North Africa Countries (Iran) are testing the United States before and after the Election.. Syria's Assad has been successful for the last 2 years---

First Libya--what reaction to the Massacres, and now Iran testing the "Waters" of how strong America will be to take them out--

President Obama has his "work" cut out for him---4 years--hopefully he will be a strong Commander in Chief giving these Stupids harsh words, and no tolerance for Terrorism, ever.

Al-Qaeda is still as strong as ever. So are the other Terrorist Groups.

Why?, big money in conservatism, you say that Rush and the rest of the evil empire are saying these things because they are on the Murdock payroll. That is only partially true. The payroll has been expanded past its wildest dreams. Little story and some speculation. I am acquaintances with several mail men in my area and most are right wing and many are fanatics. I speculate that being working people and union members that this is inappropriate for what should be their behavior. My speculation is the government trying to cut corners only bought A.M. radio's for their mail trucks and they can only get one station and that happens to be WBCK. A clear channel station. I have seen a blue collar city turn into a hot bed of so called conservatism because of this. Clear channel owns every station here, and the others are different venue's of music. Without looking it up I would speculate that when the law changed that people could own more then one station that the republicans had this figured out.

What else is your Messiah hiding under the transparency mirror.

The only reason why the Jew, Sheldon Adelson poured $53 million into Mitt Romney's campaign was to get America involved in another war, and save him millions in taxes. These people thrive on war, it's their companies that produce the vast majority of American war materials, guns, ammo, tanks, missiles, camo's, MRE's, boots....they thrive on war, just like Cheney did.

Democrats have had us involved in more wars than have Republicans. Do some research and read some good history books (ones that are larger than 700 pages and don't have lots of pictures). Democrats also created the Draft and Selective Service. Look it up instead of believing Democrat propaganda further.

Im betting tomorrow, Iran will nuke us...all because we failed to respond like REAL TOUGH SONABITCHES DO!

They don't have the capability--yet. But, they will. Obama will let them.

Jessica-1170252

Clearly reading comprehension isnt your strong suit - they didnt "release" anything.

It was leaked, they are acknowledging it...such a hard concept to grasp, huh?

It's useless to use facts with yet another butthurt Con, Jessica. Simply sit back like I am and listen to all the whining, sobbing and moaning from them. I've been laughing for 2 days over the stupidity some of them are posting. They have yet to realize it's that very stupidity that lost them the election. America finally woke up and realized that Romney was a f*cking idiot, and it's better the devil you know.

tw1sted said, "One group that has made our country look weak is the group that doesnt give the office its respect cause they dont like who is in it."

Yeah, you mean kinda like the years 2000 thru 2008?

You nailed it with that comment. Good job.

Actually, from 2000-2008 we just looked monumentally stupid. Before we deposed Hussien al-Qaida had no chance in Iraq. Saddam's secret service saw to that. I imagine Bin Laden cried tears of joy when US boots hit the ground. It was a gift from Allah. American doing bin Laden's work for him with Bush as it's number one cheerleader. And you conservatives were just happy as pigs in mud about it.

It's times like these that make me glad we have a leader with judgement and intelllect - not some yokel who can be tricked into a damaging and expensive war.

Depyle - you seeem like the one who has been rom-chippped by party ideology.

Depyle - you seeem like the one who has been rom-chippped by party ideology.

I have no party loyalty. It is ridiculous in the extreme to think I have one when I have posts going back some time on the Vine that give my actual view. Want to know my actual view since it is obvious that you have not read any of those posts?

I would like to see BOTH parties flushed out of government for a few decades, but, since that is never going to happen in Americas political climate I have to choose between the lesser of two evils because in close elections a vote for a third party (unless everybody is on board and does so, too) is a vote for the greater of two evils and the erosion of society and economy, and erosion of actual (not perceived) rights. Unfortunately, the lesser of two evils at the present time is the Republican Party and has been that for some time.

I used to be Democrat. Then, I started noticing certain patterns in their legislation. Then, I followed the logical conclusions of where that legislation was headed over decades time.

I found that they were still Tories in mind and heart. I found through reading history and sifting through historical documents that that Party was not just the party of slavery but that Democrats gifted us with the KKK. I could see that the Democrats literally were working to bankrupt this country so that it could be remade in their idealistic image. It was a very slow process. It had to be. Otherwise, more Americans would have seen it coming, too, with considerably less effort.

Based on everything I had learned and saw going on, I made the decision for America and fled from that party and never looked back. It took years of research and many thousands of dollars to learn what I did but it was worth every penny.

But, you can believe what you want. It is your right to believe propaganda tailored to the public's needs.

The only reason why the Jew, Sheldon Adelson poured $53 million into Mitt Romney's campaign was to get America involved in another war, and save him millions in taxes. These people thrive on war, it's their companies that produce the vast majority of American war materials, guns, ammo, tanks, missiles, camo's, MRE's, boots....they thrive on war, just like Cheney did.

dcpyle

Democrats have had us involved in more wars than have Republicans. Do some research and read some good history books (ones that are larger than 700 pages and don't have lots of pictures). Democrats also created the Draft and Selective Service. Look it up instead of believing Democrat propaganda further

I don't recall saying specifically republicans, all I did was name players in the game, and what I suspect they were trying to pull off, but, contrary to your statement below, seems you do have a "party loyalt," I don't, over my 42 years voting, I've voted for both republican, and democratic Presidents. Reading, I love reading, but some of "YOUR" history books are not factual at all, they tend to be bias leaning towards the white race of America. When I was in school, the books I read tend to show a strong negative image of black folks in America. Not until I graduated high school, was drafted into the Army, travelled, furthered my education in college, and reading, did I see the real you.

dcpyle

I have no party loyalty. It is ridiculous in the extreme to think I have one when I have posts going back some time on the Vine that give my actual view.

#3.30 - Fri Nov 9, 2012 1:16 PM CST

I still see you haven't gone back far enough to see the rest of my actual stance. I want BOTH parties flushed. As has been seen in election after election the situation prevents that, leaving me no choice but the lesser of two evils.

I'll drop you another hint. I was not able to vote in the Primaries.

As to history books, I have history books at home that are from many sources. I do not limit my resources to English or to American texts. I own copies of histories and religious and other texts in English (both American and British English), German, French, Latin, Greek (both ancient and modern), Egyptian (Coptic, Middle, Late and Ptolemaic), Hebrew (both classical and modern), Aramaic, Sanskrit, and Arabic.

I regularly listen to Persian (you know, the people of Iran), Arabic (Saudi, Egyptian and Lebanese), Chinese, Japanese, Jewish, Brazilian, and Native American musics, in preference to American radio stations. In fact, I am listening to Radio Sawt Beirut as I type this. But, hey, you know next to nothing about me or what I know or don't know, or what I have or don't have, or what I do or don't do.

Please continue making all the assumptions you want, though. It makes you look rather asinine and just a tad bit reverse racist. I, on the other hand, haven't a racist bone in my body. I embrace the ideas of many cultures and seek to understand as many as I can through reading of their religious texts and reading their modern views on things. I also am a citizen of both Canada and the US. Careful now...if you shove that foot further into your mouth it will protrude from your posterior and you will have need of surgery to remove it.

standingwave said, "And you conservatives ...."

I just love it when someone jumps to these type presumptions, on the internet, based on a very few words from someone they actually know very little about. Shows exactly who is extremely short-sighted ... conservative, liberal, or otherwise. And to think, we actually trust these type people with a vote.

Here's a few things which your crystal ball was cloudy about ... I agree with medical marijuana usage. I think that gays make great friends & relatives and that it's not a disease or sickness which can be "cured", but it's just who they are. Although faithful, I stay far away from hard-core "Bible Thumpers". Palin, O'Donnell, & most every "Tea Party" member were/are about as good for the country as Obama was/is, which isn't very.

And as one of those "boot on the ground", I was most likely a whole lot closer to the truth than you were, and can't say I agreed with it all either, certainly not like your pig in mud.

Now, what were you saying about that conservative crap? SOME of us can see further than conservative/liberal, left/right. Unfortunately, that percentage of us are overwhelmed by ones like you, who believe if it's not one or the other, then it's wrong.

The problem is that many people miss out on a lot of information because the mainstream media leaves out a lot of it. Some people on the ground got exposed to low levels of Sarin gas when coming across buried caches of weapons. Some few got exposed to radiation in the tunnel system under the Euphrates. There was supposed to be zero radioactive materials down there.

There were papers containing accurate plans and schematics for building a nuclear weapon, there was video tape evidence of nuclear scientists meeting with Saddam Hussein to discuss continuation of the nuclear programs when the coast was clear, and there was the whole time sitting in Iraq over 550 metric tons of yellowcake uranium ready for processing and enriching. We hardly were fools for going in. If we hadn't gone in we never would have known about any of it and Saddam Hussein might well have realized his goal of first nuking Israel and afterwards the United States.

Not everyone on the ground knew about what was going on in all places in Iraq. Much of it was top secret and classified so it could not be discussed in the news media until the materiel was removed from Iraq and disposed of secretly. Even Bush was not aware of how right he was before we went in. But, even before we went in, Bush only repeated what Senate and Presidential Democrats had been saying for several years previous. Read the latest incarnation of the 9/11 Commission Report for starters.

There was also the matter of Saddam Hussein paying the families of those who supplied suicide bombers to kill Israeli and Americans. That is another fact that many of the media conveniently omitted even when they knew about it.

TO: navyvet98 who wrote:

"I am certain Chris Matthews will tell us later to day how this is Mitt Romney's fault."

Mitt Romney probably wishes this was "his fault" but thanks to the American People, Mitt will not be in any position to have the power to make this "his fault".

Obama/Biden 2012 - Forward!

Are you still talking about Mitt Romney? The people spoke and they don't want this shady businessman representing them.

navyvet98

I am certain Chris Matthews will tell us later to day how this is Mitt Romney's fault.

Of course it isn't Mit Romney's fault, neither is the election. It's Karl Rove's fault! That's some funny stuff. I never thought I'd see the Republican Party throwing "Bush's Brain" under the bus...but there it is!

I'm lathering in the Repubs post election hate messages; so delicious so intoxicating.

AmericanGirl, you realize the election is over right?

navyvet98 - another government employee with lifetime socialized health care who votes for a "anti-goverment *except military because they are special" candidate. Let me ask you this...do you think single-payer government run health care is better or worse than the free market system? If you think free-market is better, are you willing to give up your Tri-care/Medicare...save the tax-payer some money, and buy your own insurance on the private market, with your own money?

It's only a handout if you don't work for the Government.

Romney would have shot them down, Obama didn't shoot them down because we would have had to give them health care.

I'm right you're wrong... You're right.

"Many people consider the things which government does for them as social progress, but they consider the things government for others as socialism." Earl Warren

@navyvet98

It's amazing how a Veteran could be in favor of Romney. Boggles the mind.

@america first-489930

I remember seeing this bumper sticker for Romney:

ROMNEYS HEALTH PLAN
DONT GET SICK

I think that means YOU TOO, unless you're one of the 1%ers who spend their time on a blog!! LOL!!!

This is a retaliation for the Mohammad film. Obama must continue giving apologies until they stop attacking us.

Hey oskar,

4 MORE YEARS, 4 MORE YEARS!@!!! Oh how sweet it is!

Squirm you scumbag!

Folks are just itching to get into another war. Shooting at a drone is not "an act of war". This is the 21st century and wars are fought differently, true, but a drone is not considered significant enough to warrant the taking of human life. Barack knows this and will qualm the Republicans into realizing this...

secondbrother

Hey oskar,

4 MORE YEARS, 4 MORE YEARS!

If you think that 4 more years APOLOGIZING will change the world, you are wrong, he already spend 4 years , it did not work and 4 more won't do anything. Get smart with newsvine :)

Oh poor poor oskar, it must be tearing you apart inside, and I'm loving every minute of it!

oscar why is it you never fought anybody but your wife. us veterans want to know punk ass mf

My thoughts exactly!

mathuin and Acosmet:

Where will THAT money come from?

We haven't paid for the last 2 wars yet!

Republicans, salivating for war!

Right Americangirl, we should leave those people alone! Period!

American Girl; We already have the armed drones, it wouldn't cost that much.

Better idea. Fly in a tight circle and let the next Iranian squadron shoot each other down.

Yep we should just leave the world alone. We do not want to take the war to them so lets just wait for them to bring it to us like they did on 9/11/2001. After all it is better that we have blood in American streets instead of their streets right?

Dumb people

@American Girl

Where will THAT money come from?

We haven't paid for the last 2 wars yet!

Republicans, salivating for war!

And we havent finished paying for the wars of Woodrow Wilson (D) - World War I, Franklin Roosevelt (D) - World War II, Harry Truman (D) - The Cold War, and The Korean War, Lyndon Baines Johnson (D) - Viet Nam, Bill Clinton (D) - Operation Desert Fox, Serbia, Kosovo, and Bosnia, or Barrack Obama (D) Libya - But only republicans love war right... Maybe you need to research a bit of history to discover where that Industrial War Complex originated from. I can give you a BIG HINT, it was a Democrat named Franklin Delano Roosevelt... Maybe you should go dig him up and thank him for those damned warmongering Republicans, or maybe just forget the last 103 years of US History, as apparently you have, and continue to blame Bush.

And Ms, I did not include in the above list, Harry Truman (D) - Dropped the Atomic Bomb on Japan, or JFK (D) - Bay of Pigs, Cuban Missile Crisis. But if we want to talk about "war mongering Republicans" I think we should certainly put the record and HISTORY straight...

rmoonrock

Yep we should just leave the world alone. We do not want to take the war to them so lets just wait for them to bring it to us like they did on 9/11/2001. After all it is better that we have blood in American streets instead of their streets right?

Dumb people

Not so dumb perhaps. That's the crap that got us into Iraq...remember? Sorry man, the election proved the American People are none with Neoconservative policy. By the way, we're not interested in Trickle-Down economics either.

Will the Watcher

Yep, the Republican Party "Peace thru Trickle-Down Economics...one Piece at a time".

Better yet just turn the predator erratically into the jet - simple math tells you we can afford to lose more drones than they can afford to lose piloted fighters....
MQ-1 $4M per unit.

SU-25 - $11M per unit + cost to train & maintain pilot. (The US spends $2.6M on a pilot, but let's go with a quarter of that for Iran).

Whoops sorry bout that - you know how hard it is to fly a drone with that timelag and all.

I know your not interested in trickle down economics. Your more interested in spending our childrens and grandchildrens future away by borrowing way more than we can ever pay back.

rmoonrock - by your logic, I should just go around killing everyone.

better to kill them before they can even TRY to kill me right?

odds are SOMEONE in this nation might try to kill me someday, I best just get started.

or even better, by your logic - lets just nuke the whole world, someone, somewhere, eventually is going to hate enough to try and punch us in the lip - might be china, might be russia, might be iran or pakistan...or hell, it could be all of south america unified.

lets just nuke them all - ah, peace!

it's what REAL christians would do - right?

So rmoonrock still actually believes in that 9/11 Fairy Tale?They brought it to us on 9/11! Of course they did.

More like your illustrious corrupt murderous government brought it to you on 9/11! They murdered 3,000 of their own people, and then some.Or do you still believe that the big bad boogy man terrorists did it?I choose the latter.

By the way you know Alquaida,or however you spell that stupid name.They're better known as AL CIA aida!Started and supplied by your illustrious US Government back in 1979.Right now your government is supplying them in Syria,and they supplied them in Libya before that.

They even had them kill your US Ambassador in Lybia,because he was in on the supplying the Al CIA aida,in Syria from there.He grew a conscience and didn't want to do it anymore.Then guess what happened? He Died !

Get a Clue!Yeah we should just leave the friggen world alone,because we're the world's worst Terrorist,both here and abroad!

rmoonrock - how come you guys never give a crap about our childrens childrens childrens future when your side is in power and charing up wars on the chinese credit card, while cutting taxes on the richest of the rich, and crashing the economy that ends up firing middle class/working class workers who WERE paying taxes and are no longer anymore - which resulted in the imploding deficit?

suddenly, a black guy is elected, and you all scream OH MY GOD OH MY GOD! OUR CHILDRENS CHILDREN!

im so sick of the bs and the fake giving a sh!t - you dont care, otherwise you all wouldnt be slobbering at the chops to go to war with Iran which we cant F'ING afford...all while ensuring the richest of the rich need not pay a penny more.

who the bleep is going to pay for that? the 12 million low wage workers our economy is going to add over the next 8 years? yeah...thats not going to cut it.

oh, maybe we can just eliminate entitlement spending? those seniors/disabled are going to be pissed - considering they are taking home 90% of entitlements spending.

You all suck at math...which is why you lost the election. Obama used the 2010 census, crunched the numbers, figured out where his voters were and TURNED THEM OUT.

you want to act like your the money people, the ones who can turn an economy around...and you cant even churn out enough voters to win an election?

sell your crap somewhere else, we're all done buying it.

Somewhere, somewhere in the usa there is a troll.

I love how you can just dish out all kinds of criticism of me and jump to all kinds of conclusions with the little information I have given. Go ahead and dump on me. It just goes to show how dumb you people are. I do not want to go pick a fight and I do not like war but I do not want to invite war here either. As far as caring about our children can someone tell me how much the two unfunded wars have cost us? It is sure a hell of a lot less than the deficits run up by the current administration. As far as complaining that I cannot do math all I have to say is which party is it that cannot even put together a federal budget for the last how many years? Tell your own to go do the math. What is the plan for the future. Just keep borrowing? You tell me what is our plan to get our debt under control and leave something of America to leave to our children?

moonrock, Iran brought it to us on 9/11/2001? Why'd we go to Afghanistan? Dumb people? You're about as dumb as a box of moonrocks.

Yeah and somewhere in the USA is Don't Be a Moron! Get my drift?

Jessica - couple of things. First off, Democrats have been more apt to charge the credit card up, see post 5.7, 2ndly, I don't particularly give a damn what color the moron in the white house is. A dumbass is a dumbass regardless of his race, ethnicity, or political party. And to be more than honest with you, I don't think Romney or Obama are qualified enough to even hand out @!$%# paper in a public restroom.

I personally wouldn't mind seeing Condelesa Rice or even Colin Powell run. I could certainly rally around either one of them. I wouldn't mind seeing someone like Norman Schwartzkoff run. Pretty smart people, and very much in tune with world events and such. Now regardless of what you may believe, not everyone who doesn't support the Liberal Messiah is a racist, or has a problem with a minority holding the office. Some of us just plain don't like his politics, his bull@!$%#ting, or his style. And let's be more than honest here. For someone to take credit for what the Seal Team did, aka spiking the football, but can't man up enough to take the blame for failing to protect a consulate (and spare me the republicans are to blame bull@!$%# - there was apparently enough money to buy brand new Chevy Volt electric cars for ALL the embassies), I have no respect for them. And this garbage of he didn't know, don't wash either. HE gets a daily security and intel brief, first thing every morning telling him every security incident, every threat against US interests. There were 13 specific threats, and over 200 incidents to include a bomb blowing a hole in that consulate wall not but 6 months prior to that attack. So you will have to forgive me if I don't bow down and kiss the Liberal Messiah's ass, or prance around in the little rainbow of skittles everytime he speaks.

A real leader would have said, "folks, I take responsibility for this FUBAR. I will not take these things so lightly in the future." I would have a hell of a lot more respect for a MAN who is supposed to be a leader, who is supposed to be "the buck stops here." No instead Hillary has to step forward, wearing the big boy pants and take the shaft. Yes, her department, but ultimately Barracky Poo's responsibility. No other way to cut it, no other way to shake off the stink. And certainly for someone who preaches fiscal responsiblity, his track record sucks too... The debt is still climbing, and he is still spending like money is water...

Kind of like the boss is always responsible for what does or does not get dne on his watch.

You have no absolutely NO credibility will the watcher. Calling WW II "FDR's war" is a sick statement. Trying to compare and obviously great man to scumbags like the bush's who were genuine warmongering scum of the earth, probably not to dissimilar to yourself, is pretty sad. I think you need to realize that was a WORLD war, moron, not "FDR's war."

Republicans = war for money.

4 More years you scumbag, it's just so sweet.

Maybe....MAYBE you all will have a shot in 2020, if you manage to expel all the extremists from your party, but its doubtful because you all relish that extreme nationalist just so so much.

I can't remember who in history relished in such extreme nationalism...hm.

secondbrother:

I believe my IQ just diminished by reading your response. Yes! People like you won the election with the 100% support of the Media. So many issues were sweped under the rugs that during Bush era would have been considered scandals because the Media simply hated Bush because he didn't conform into their ideological ideals. Having said that I am nto defending Bush. However, people like you are are the morons that make me wonder "what the hell happened to America?"

You keep throwing the word "warmongering" around and celebrate like a little kid that you boy won the election. You have no clue what has happened to America and what will happen to America. At the end of the day, there will be a high price paid for this election. I could only hope that Obama truely moves toward the center in his international policies and Debt crisis and solve this. He is elected as the President for the second term and I respect him. However, I will still challenge him if I feel like he is making a mistake. That is my right and no body could take that away from me. That is why I came to this country.

What IQ ahmed? Doesn't sound like you had much to lose, so no big deal.

And I listened to the EXACT same fear mongering bullsh!t from you republicans in 2008. What happened to the full blown communist state? What happened to all the gun laws that were on the way? What happened to abortions on every street corner, and the complete and utter destruction of the universe as we know it?

And when you use a word that fits, you use it. And WARMONGERING fits.

You want to know what happened to America? Ignorant Pigs like you took over the republican party and turned the country against itself.

Oh, and ahmed, give the whole liberal media thing a rest. Do yourself a favor and look up where that term comes from. Then again, you're lack of an IQ may retard your search, so maybe go find a 12 year old to look it up for you.

Second Brother you seriously have both educational and reading comprehension difficulties

Calling WW II "FDR's war" is a sick statement. Trying to compare and obviously great man to scumbags like the bush's who were genuine warmongering scum of the earth, probably not to dissimilar to yourself, is pretty sad. I think you need to realize that was a WORLD war, moron, not "FDR's war."

1st off, WWII was indeed necessary. However, for libtard demmies to say ONLY republicans send us off to war is both a lie, and ignorant, when clearly the last 103 years PROVES OTHERWISE. 2ndly, that Military Industrial Complex was a direct result of FDR's NEW DEAL Doctrine, in which we industrialized war materiel and sold such ARMS to the Soviets, Britain, China, and others. THAT my dear boy was the START of the Military Industrial Complex - A DEMOCRAT. Let us not forget what started the mass exodus of jobs leaving this country. Do you need a reminder? How about NAFTA under another Libby Democrat named William Jefferson (got caught with that stain on the dress) Clinton. So you will have to excuse me for having education. AND CHIEF the reason we got sucked into the war in Europe was the fact we were selling that NEW DEAL materiel. So whether or not you "think" he was a great man or not, the fact remains HE started the Military Industrial Complex, and as a result, WE got involved under HIS WATCH.

And you can't blame BUSH for that or the others... And again, you need to reread my comment in 5.19... and if you understand that comment MORON, then perhaps you will see I care more about the leadership of this country than a political party unlike you MORON.

lmao! That is what I was thinking...back to the drawing board Iran. You are going to have a hell of a time with just a single F-22 Raptor if you can't even shoot a dumb flying camera!

Wasn't it Iran or one of the countries that don't like us, that got on the radio to talk to a jet overhead in international waters. They said if the jet did not leave immediately they would send up their own jets to shoot him down. and the guy in the jet said, "I am flying in a F-22. I'll wait for 'em." silence.........lol

The SU-25 is a ground attack aircraft. It is not designed for air to air combat. It is likely the Iranian pilot was just harassing the drone and not attempting to actually hit it.

Dale...think about that for a moment. What you are suggesting is that they are so stupid as to conduct PSYOPs against a drone? ...ROFLAMO!

Dale3242. That is an incorrect statement. The SU-25 has many revisions such as the SU-25TM which all have very advanced avionics. Only the earliest made that were never upgraded (very few left) do not have air to air capabilities.

@ Dale The SU-25 is perfectly cabable of an air-air engagement. I've been flying former and current soviet equipment for more then a decade. "Anytime Baby ! "

@ Willow the original story is about a Marine Hornet Driver during the 90s not an F-22

Obi Wan PSYOPS:

"THIS IS NOT THE DRONE YOU ARE LOOKING FOR...."

"This isn't the drone I was looking for"

"HE CAN CONTINUE ON HIS BUSINESS..."

"He can continue on his business"

Weary and Willow, and that was 1990s US tech. Imagine the hell they would have with modern US tech and even all the stuff that we civilians don't know about yet. Iran is not a threat. I had this discussion yesterday with someone. They have the capacity to steal and buy technology, not develop it. They will never have a fighting force superior to our own.

This "attack" was a political statement, not a serious attempt to down the drone. They could have easily destroyed the drone, but the falling debris would have shown that it was obviously in international airspace.

This was like a "shot across the bow" to intimidate and dissuade - a propaganda statement.

ditto.

I was thinking the same thing too.

Using my logical thinking hat - it seems this is more likely what happened:

We intentionally flew over their air space, begging them into fire at us (hit us) so that we could justify going to war with them.

Iran likely responded with warning shots, very close ones, to send a clear message: WE DONT WANT WAR.

Our attempt to trick them into responding didnt work...so the next best thing?

Tell the public, between jewish people, war-hungry people, and the average person who just thinks any "insult" to america is worthy of war - there'll be enough people clamoring for ROUND III of the Middle East Battles.

With Iraq over, Afghanistan all but a certainty we'll be fully out and done by 2014 - the Military is likely wondering "but what will we do if there is no war?"

Like any and all industries, they are looking to preserve their jobs. When we are not at war, we do not have as many people in the service - we are not spending as much - we are not buying as many things for war...lots of people lose money when we arent invading and occupying nations.

this is not hard to connect dots.

If all that is wrong, and the story above is straight up truth - then Iran simply SUCKS at flying planes while shooting bullets.

As such, worrying about their nuke problems seems highly silly.

It would be really nice to have 30 or 40 years of peace. It won't happen, and we have a huge amount of war hawks in this country. but the thought would be so nice. Imagine what we could do in this country? I remember the 50s and 60s, the Cold War. but at least it was peaceful until vietnam started. Of course, I was a little kid, so maybe it wasn't so peaceful and I just thought it was.

Willow...sadly you seem to have forgotten the Korean War.

Willow...sadly you seem to have forgotten the Korean War.

There's a reason it's called "the forgotten war."

There's a reason it's called "the forgotten war."

And that's even truer...and more sad!

Rumor has it this happened in the USA, the two pilot's were not Iranian's, one pilot was Mitt Romney and the other Paul Ryan, Obama and Biden were running the drone remotely from the White House.

After the barrage of gunfire from the Romney & Ryan duo failed to hit their mark, Obama and Biden were doing High Fives and yelling "Mission accomplished"

Willow...

"War will never cease until babies begin to come into the world with larger cerebrums and smaller adrenal glands." H.L. Menken

wow here we go again with you war hawks,you know the ones that never put that uniform on. always want to fight as long as someone else do the fighting, blame the president for this also. my question is why don't you fight .im a veteran i did my job where were you.

Yep, I agree, it intruded on Iranian airspace, but remember who the commander in chief is, and was, when this happened a few days ago. Obama wants war.

So if I understand most of those in 7.x, the fact that the military says it was in international airspace is instead taken as evidence that it was in Iranian airspace?

Interesting way to look at the world.

Time for you to learn how to spell.

yah Grim! lurn how too spel...cause Gumps can't figr yur point..lol.

..in good humor Gumps..lol.

I suspect he spelled it that way on purpose. Sound it out as spelled and it sounds like Ebonics.

lol Romney, really? Wow.

Joseph: Romney lost.

@Joseph Common:

You wouldn't know a fraud if it bit you on you a$$. Your apparent hatred for Israel overspills your brain and reasoning powers. Take a quick sniff of your stash and go into a corner and think about Betty Grable. What a delusional prejudiced a$$hole!!!

@American Girl:

He knows it, but he had to get another jab in at Romney. Besides that's the only rhetoric he can remember so he HAD to say it again.

joseph common

Is that you Karl? Come on man the election is over and this won't get your money back.

.

I don't really see this as newsworthy since nothing of significance happened.

I vote that joseph get the half baked conspiracy medal today...lol.

Pretty bad.

Maybe it was Imanutjob flying the mission. He's so short he couldn't see over the instrument panel. It was either that or his fart donut deflated.

The rest of you Romney oxygen thieves get off the bus, the election is over. Give us all a break for awhile.

The SU-25 is a ground attack aircraft. Even so, if the Iranian pilot had wanted to shot the drone down he could have. It is likely that he was just harassing the drone.

So, warning shots? How do you warn a drone? Forgive me so being so ignorant, but is there someone watching a screne somewhere pushing remote buttons for direction? Wouldn't they see the Iranians and adjust? Whatever were they Doing there anyway? Everyone knows drones are for taking out villages and people on kill lists. It sounds only logical they would try to shoot it down. A drone is a Threat.

Our Military sounds like crazy, dictatorial bullys who need a time out chair.

Hey Dale

...harassing the drone? How scared do you think the drone got?

Iran is experimenting with on the job training just like we have with our President for the last four years. How is that working out?

Next

Iran is experimenting with on the job training just like we have with our President for the last four years. How is that working out?

Next

Pretty good, seems America thought he was better than your candidate.....LOL

Just have an US Air Force F-22 multi-target Viper handle the Iranian Bogie. It would keep the situation from escalating if the drone intercept occurs in International Airspace. No more problems.

Yea, remember about a year + ago when the Chinese launched an ICBM off the California coast? Your government said it was an aircraft taking off and gaining altitude as it moved away toward the horizon - all filmed from a "bad angle"...

They are closer than we think... I believe that is what influences so many foreign policy decisions...

Hard for a missile defense system to work when the enemy missile is shot about 2 miles from the protection... How does one defeat a boxer with a long arm reach? You get inside and don't let them extend their arms. How does a pitcher overpower a power hitter? You pitch him inside so he can't extend his arms...

I don't really think this is an adequate comparison, considering this angry badger can't respect Iran's airspace, continuously flies drones over them, and keeps coming up for reasons for a war we can't afford and don't need.

I hope that you are trolling and not really as dumb as you sound. Not only does Iran not have nukes, but they are even further away from having a launch system that could target the US.

Relligion - you're exactly the person this propaganda was intended to incite.

beat the war drum, beat the war drum, beat the war drum

as if we arent broke enough already....

Nuke them? OMG, you are as bad as the worst of the war mongers in government. NUKE THEM? You need to shut up and quit actiing like such a stupid idiot.

I'm glad the most power you will ever have is from your Mom's basement cpu as you blast discussions with hate...and probably collect child pornography too.

Relligion Kills, Yes, indeed you are sorry for thinking that nuking them is actually an option. The US policy is to never use nukes first. That aside, using a nuke in the Middle East will set off WW III, see the movie Wargames.

Relligion Kills

You are a poster child for why strict controls should be enacted with any marijuana legalization law. Now go back to your video game and let the big people talk.

"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all others because you were born in it. George Bernard Shaw

The flaw in your logic Ol_Doc is that pot makes people relaxed and peaceful. It would be the people who don't smoke pot and mock it who are more likely to push the button to make the nukes fly.

You must not read ol_docs posts...it really doesn't seem he'd be a warmonger. You are right, though, that a pothead would probably be more peaceful and relaxed (and a bit slower in the old brainworks) than your typical sabre-rattling rightwinger....actually maybe not TOO much slower in the brainworks, now that I think about it.

I think relligion kills is just a genuine idiot. Case closed.

NO, I DO NOT.

It's not that I believe that Russ...it's just that I don't really give a damn what the Iranians like or don't like. As to their firing on a US Drone; either they are the worst fighter pilots in world history or they were frightened to take down the drone. Either way it's barely interesting...simply humorous.

James-3672256

Here's a little reminder when you think your untouchable PEARL HARBOR

Drones don't fly far enough for Iran to send one here.

Jim, you might want to rethink that. There are already drones, either in operation, or on the drawing boards/computers that can fly nonstop around the globe. A solar pwered drone has already flown at extremely high altitude, non-stop, for over 24 + hours. And others are in the works. (This one had ten electric motors driving the propellers.)

As far as this story, it is a quest for public opinion for the politicians. Politics is nothing but a game of chess, and we are all the pawns, (on both sides of every issue.) The biggest problem with that analogy, we stand no chance in h@#l of winning, as the only winners will be the politicians placing us on our little squares.

If, would've could've, had happened...you sound like Rex Ryan

Romney would have won because drones flying near Iran is by far the most important thing to the American people. Obama should have had a hundred thousand troops in Iran the next day. Oh wait. Iran is really big. Maybe a million troops.

It was all a cover up just like Sandy was to make Obama look good for doing his job vs Bush and the way he handled the same issues. Stuff like this should not be in there contorl (White House)to help get relected as it helped him get all the northern states hit by the storm and look at all those votes bail out money can buy.

We didn't lose anything as it shows the battle lines and that half of us think anything is better then Obama .

PMoscatelli... Your problem is obvious.

Ya, what were they thinking building all those countries on top of OUR OIL anyway? ;)

God put those countries on top of our oil. So he must want us to go to war to get control of our oil. lol

remember when the govt. said that the oil in Iraq would be used to pay for the damaged to be repaired after the war, and run their country? Our country was paying for single payer health care for all Iraqis for about 10 years, if not still doing so. Where did all that money from oil go? In someone's pocket.

Current oil shale finds in the United States are said to be close to 100 billion barrels. We are just exploiting the first of about 20 areas in North Dakota and Montana with over 20 billion barrels of oil under development now. We don't need foreign oil now and we are fast becoming the largest exporter of petro chemicals.

That black gold is still in our ground.

Next

They don't even know where those massive shipments of shrink-wrapped paper CASH went. Remember those?

Go read the story again and you will get the answer. If you still don't understand, maybe one of the kids in your neighborhood can help you. Like one who is at least in high school.

Dave.....why didn't FOX News report it?

but do as Jim says.....read, inform yourself....stop looking foolish!

Agreed.

It probably won't be too long before even more people are shooting at our drones.. the drones that are flying over our own neighborhoods, under the guise of Homeland Security. The government shouts "Terrorist!" enough times and Americans gladly throw our freedoms at their feet. Ridiculous.

Dave, we have better technology than that, that can read the numbers on a license plate from over 100,000 feet above them. And it's lot quicker than waiting for some USAF tech in Colorado to read it.

What that drone was doing was just what they say, monitoring shipping in that area. Right now, there are international sanctions in effect, against Iran. Notice I wrote "international." Not just U.S. sanctions.

As far as the Iranian pilots not shooting it down, as stated previously, by others, it's a lot harder than the average couch potato or video gamer can imagine. And that aircraft, if that's what was actually there, it's an obsolete Soviet ground attack jet given to the Iranians, (as we no longer sell them parts for the F-4 Phantoms they used to fly), or the Fren

Oh god no, not the gorillas!

I was making a sarcastic joke about his misspelling of "guerrilla," you dumbass.

Pssst - these gods, unicorns, leprechauns, and devil things don't actually exist. They are only in your imagination. See a doctor about that. Mental health services are available these days.

Hijinks

take your meds.....stat!

Your chosen leader would've claimed war and would've spent far more money than Obama has the last four years as well as caused thousands of American lives. The world is larger than your backyard, why can't GOP's understand that?

Or he could walk around and HOLD HANDS with Saudi dictators(aka Kings) like the BUSH's did. You know that fun loving nation of fundamentalists that supports the Wahhabi ideology that underpins al qaeda. The one that supplied the guys that were actually responsible for 911? But that would require you to look up big words like Wahhabi and actually read history and stuff like that. I am not holding my breath on that point.....

It was Bush who put the bin Laden clan on a jet and made sure they were safe after 9-11. Just exactly who was kissing that ring?

And why shouldn't he have let them go? Seemed prudent to prevent lynchings.

Mr.young1 No need to peg all of us as being the same. Just as Democrats are not all the same. With that being said, I just asume not have our country involved with any more wars in the middle east. Russia didn't win after 20 years of fighting and we won't either. We need to save that money and fuel for domestic use. I dont mean to sound un American here but that drone was 16 mile off the shore. if something was 16 miles off our shore it would have been destroyed with no hesitation. That being said... HAHA to the stupid Iranian pilots that couldn't hit it with 2 planes. USA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And why shouldn't he have let them go? Seemed prudent to prevent lynchings.

Name one oil man that's been lynched in the US. Yeah you're right, but the original topic was kissing rings ie bowing to others. Frankly W is just as guilty, even more so if you factor in Halliburton.

well, the motive for letting them go was pretty clearly to prevent violence towards them. That was my point.

Your chosen leader would've claimed war and would've spent far more money than Obama has the last four years

The Obama administration spent as much in four years as Bush did in eight. That is part of the government record. You should read the budget for fiscal year 2007. The Bush Administration had a budget deficit that year of $168.2 billion before the recession, in the middle of raging war.

Contrast that with the $1 trillion budget deficit each and every year of the Obama administration. Now, add to that the more than $1 trillion budget deficit projected for Obama's first year of his second term with between $500 billion and $700 billion budget deficits projected for each year thereafter of Obama's second term.

Pot...kettle...black!

this is for those of you who have apparently not read the whole article,Asked why the incident is just being revealed now — more than one week after the incident and just two days after the presidential election — Little said that the Pentagon does not talk about classified missions. He said that the information had been leaked to the media so he is acknowledging it. To dont be a Moron, you think the USAF would miss using its cannons, I think not