We absolutely need austerity, but our politicians are too weak and scared to do it.

"Spain, where one in four workers is unemployed..."

This is a look at our future, but ours will be worse.

Who's spending? Republicans want to increase the military budget which is already bloated yet demand that Social Security and Medicare be cut, both of which were paid for by the payroll tax of workers. Medicare is meager as is Social Security. The two unnecessary wars were excessive and benefiting only the rich, the working class soldiers give their lives for the profit of a few. Republicans want austerity, but only with the earned benefits that they call entitlements as if they were some form of welfare. Strip their retirment benefits and watch how fast they revolt over the idea. Its time that politicians face the same struggles as those they impose on others in America. We support the protests and riots in Europe. Its time to take-over the ruthless banks that control our monetary systems. Its time to revolt!

Why isn't the socialist EU model swimming in tax revenue?

Why cut government programs when they can just tax their "rich" and pay for it all?

These so-called austerity measures - are they tiny cuts that barely scratch the surface of the debt these countries owe?

These EU citizens need to stop crying and write a check to their babysitting governments.

tracontech

Who's spending? Its time to take-over the ruthless banks that control our monetary systems.

It's not the banks who got us into 16 trillion of debt. It's Congress.

Rickeroo

Why cut government programs when they can just tax their "rich" and pay for it all?

If you take a bucket of water from the deep end of the pool and throw it into the shallow end, does the water level in the pool rise?

Denver bill 2-borrowing your metaphor, If one pours a bucket of black paint into the shallow end of a pool, eventually it will spread throughout and all the water will be black. No matter how carefully one swims in the deep end of the pool. What is happening in Europe will have profound ramifications in the United States. We can't turn a blind eye to that fact and those countries situations won't be getting better any time soon.

The darker things become for Europeans, the worse things will become for us. We do not live in a separate bubble independent in all matters. Our fates are tied together in many areas, especially financially. If most Americans go thinking they can continue living as they have in the past, spending their money like they have in the past and not making wise choices as in the past, they will have a rude awaking. When economically a deeper recession strikes, it will be like lightening out of the blue.They will have only themselves to blame especially if they are living beyond their means.

Riots and violence will begin in America when the Federal Reserve's 0% interest rate policy cause unacceptable inflation and the collapse of the bond market. The ensuing rise in interest rate will cause the collapse of the housing market, massive failures of banks and 25% unemployment rate.

For those who think the 2007 Crash was miserable, they are about to learn the real meaning of the word, misery.

Wallstfatcat,

Exactly. For the past 60+ Years, Washington and congress in particular have spent like drunken sailors in a whorehouse. They have squandered everything that has been given to them on paper butt holes for wooden horses (or some other totally useless item), borrowed $16 Trillion from the future, and now they want people to give them even more so that they can throw it around? When will they stop (or will the ever stop)?

Currently, Mr. Bernanke continues printing money with both hands 24/7. In another 4 years we should be well on our way to $25 Trillion in debt and looking exactly like Greece with the dollar worth about the same as a half sheet of Charmin. Don't they realize that one day the FED will hold a debt auction and no one will come? What are they going to do when the dollar is on par with the yen and they have to start distributing $1 bills on a roll in a 12 pack? What will a gallon of gas cost or a pound of ground beef? Will salaries keep up with this hyperinflation? I dare say that will not happen.

Can anyone truly say what the magic tipping point of debt to GDP is where the lenders start charging credit card interest on sovereign debt? Is it 180% like Greece, 140% like Spain and Portugal, or around 100% like the US? Erskine Bowles said it best in an interview a few weeks ago:

The problem is that we, the United States, are currently the prettiest horse in the glue factory. Investors will continue to buy our debt until one day they won't. There won't be any warning when they decide we are addicted to debt; they won't blow a whistle 10 minutes before they stop."

When will the lenders just say "This is too risky; I'm out'ta here" about American Debt just like they are starting to with the PIIGS? It has happened before; just like in Zimbabwe. Another occurrence in recent history was called the Weimar Republic and the outcome of the ensuing little bar fight that followed didn't turn out too well for about 50 Million people. I don't they understand this is what really took Greece down (besides spending like a drunken sailor in a whorehouse). It wasn't that Greece couldn't borrow money, but that the lenders were charging loan shark rates because of the risk. The cost of long and short term borrowing went through the roof (30%) and it pushed Greece over the edge as it is now doing to Portugal, Italy, and Spain. if you want a real eye opener, read an interview with Michael Lewis (the man who wrote "The Blind Side" and "Boomerang:Travels in the New Third World").

http://www.advisorperspectives.com/newsletters12/pdfs/Michael_Lewis_on_the_True_Depth_of_the_Crisis_in_Europe.pdf

Perhaps our leadership has also missed it, but for the past 50 or 60 years, we have raised generations of people that think corn and peas grow in a "Green Giant" can. In the 20's and 30's we were a mostly agrarian society; it ain't that way anymore. We have created a large portion of society that is dependent on the government's stipend in order to just survive. Don't believe me? Just go to any major city. What do you think will happen when the stipend goes away or inflation is so high that it won't buy anything? Do they really think these people will just sit on the curb and cry or will they turn into an angry Athens style rioting mob complete with torches, pitch forks, and a 1911-A1 .45 Automatic for everyone? I wonder what the riots in Athens would have looked like if the rioters had been better armed than the police like the gangs in Chicago or LA are today. My money is 10 to 1 on the mob if the dollar tanks and we start looking like Greece to the investors.

It has been my experience that civilization is a very thin veneer that we CHOOSE to wear and the fabric of society is the set of suspenders and belt that holds the veneer onto us. That fabric has been deteriorating for years. I lay the root cause on the "Corn in a Green Giant Can" mentality and the philosophy of dependency that all of the western governments have fostered for the past 60 + years. "We will take care of you, no matter what"; What happens when they can't? If people are made into Economic Slaves as Henry Morganthau, Jr. called it in 1934 and the "master" can no longer provide, what do you think will happen next?

If you place people into the wrong situations and apply enough pressure, most of us will both quickly and cheerfully strip off that veneer faster than the dancer on stage at the nudie bar. Necessity, Hunger, and Survival are the most ruthless of our natural instincts and it won't take much for us to revert to the animals from whence we came. We as humans will do whatever it takes to survive at the expense of anyone or anything else. We are not a very kind or attractive species when the going gets tough.

When people can't feed their kids and it takes a wheelbarrow full of money to buy a loaf of bread, normally sane and rational people will start doing some really friggin' crazy things. I have several very good friends from Germany. My friends are an intelligent, kind, thoughtful, and generous group of people, but about 80 years ago they, as a collective, followed a really crazy little bastard (literally) straight into the pit of hell for just that reason. They have told me stories about what their parents and grandparents endured and did that would curl your hair.

I served with the 3rd Marines in Quang Tri and Thua Thien provinces of Vietnam and have seen with my own eyes just what my fellow human creature is capable of doing when the going gets tough or the pressure too great. Do they really want to see what he looks like too, or are they just too stupid to see this train coming down the tracks? If they continue spending like those Drunken Sailors in the whorehouse with no responsibility and accountability and printing money with both hands, they will probably get a chance to see it for themselves. I can guarantee them from experience that it won't be too damned much fun.

Why cut government programs when they can just tax their "rich" and pay for it all?

These so-called austerity measures - are they tiny cuts that barely scratch the surface of the debt these countries owe?

These EU citizens need to stop crying and write a check to their babysitting governments.

Austerity isnt working in Europe after 3 years.....you can bet it wont work here either....but dont tell that to the Tea Tards and the Republicans...they lost election!!!

Now, all of a sudden, every Republican/Tea Tool has woken from their slumber to scream "Deficits DO MATTER!! OMG lower the deficit, lower the deficit!!!!". LOL!!!

This is an easy analysis: First, look long and hard at the protest photo. What do you see? The mean age of the protesters there is their mid-20's. Why is that? They are seeing that the government is cutting off their parent's "entitlements" and in turn realizing that they won't be getting them themselves. The youth are getting disenfranchised and taking to the streets (and so goes the violence). This is what is starting to bubble up here, the kids are realizing that their education debts are theirs, that government aid is faltering, that they are going to be responsible for the overspending, that there aren't jobs when the get out of school, that the cost of everything is going up, and the sales job they were sold in college isn't coming true. They may have voted in a few elections and are beginning to realize that politicians aren't in it for them so no change comes out of changes in government. They are rising up over there and they'll rise up here. Be really wary of this.

Gold Bars- Not sure why you are so partisan, but what ever kool aid you've been drinking will dry up soon too. What are you looking for now- the complete socialization of our country (government controlling all industry, social services, healthcare, the economy)? If that's what you want then I'd suggest reading up on what it's like to live in China as the "regular guy". Please explain how you'd fix our debt problems, our economic problems, and our social problems. I can't wait!

Thanks to the 51%, this is the foreseeable future of the once great nation, the United States of America. You do get what you vote for!!!

Windancersong-1494878

Denver bill 2-borrowing your metaphor, If one pours a bucket of black paint into the shallow end of a pool, eventually it will spread throughout and all the water will be black.

Close. Eventually, all the water will be dingy gray as the bucket of black paint disperses in the clear water. The key word, however, is "eventually." The shallow end will be black for a long time before the deep end notices any change in color.

They are seeing that the government is cutting off their parent's "entitlements" and in turn realizing that they won't be getting them themselves.

Really?? I thought they were protesting high unemployment.....never read or heard anything about youth protesting over grandma's entitlements!! LOL!!!

If that's what you want then I'd suggest reading up on what it's like to live in China as the "regular guy".

I lived in Beijing, China from February 2006 to February 2012 (now I reside Tokyo)....what did you want me to read about?? I lived there.

The regular guy in China manufacture, sell and distribute counterfeit goods and make a a good living....no interfeence from the government..NONE... WHY?? Because there is NO SSDI, SSI ...NO food stamps....NO welfare..you take care of yourself...by whatever means possible. NOT in America.....over regulated.

Please explain how you'd fix our debt problems, our economic problems, and our social problems. I can't wait!

Default! You and the future generations of Americans will NEVER repay that money....you're dragging your country down into a cesspool of misery and creating a massive underclass of American people that will have far reaching and undesirable consequences....socially, politically and economically.

Who do you think these mass of poor and underclass will vote for?? They're going to vote for people who look out after them....not for the 1% or the "makers"....not for "trickle down economics". The tide is changing...who are the politicians listening too??

Socialism is taking from the rich to give the poor....what is it when you take from the poor and give to the rich?? Theft??

Chris this is a forum for posts not novels, nobody reads those long novels anyway. When I see something that long all I see is blah blah blah.

Well, we get what we vote for...democrat or republican. There have
been candidates for president with a plan to avoid ending up like Greece or
Spain, but they have been marginalized by the mainstream and dubbed crazy by
those too dumb to understand what they were talking about.

Go back to August 15, 1971 and see what happened on that day to
see the beginning of the end for the dollar and by extension the U.S., and by
extension the global economy.

Chris this is a forum for posts not novels, nobody reads those long novels anyway. When I see something that long all I see is blah blah blah.

cliff notes:

You're f*cked due to decades of fiduciary tomfoolery.

I can see why these people are angry. They see their own share of the pie being taken away and given to banks who in their minds have caused the problems to begin with. That may be true up to a point, but what they don't consider is a country is its banks. If these institutions fail, no one will have anything. That's why we spent so much money on TARP ($700B seems like nothing now, doesn't it?).

What they should be asking themselves is why are their northern neighbors still afloat while they sink? Do they really think it's some giant conspiracy or is there something about their culture that leads to financial insolvency? We should be asking ourselves the same question with regards to Canada.

In some ways EU countries can be compared to the US, as in when the Euro collapses, the dollar will take a very hard hit. However - many things have contributed to the problems in Western Europe and they are NOT things that the average American has. Most people in Europe do NOT save for retirement at all, they do not have too - they pay 50% or more of their income so that they will live in a government built facility when they are very old (the facilities are also extremely nice, not like US nursing homes). They pay triple what we pay for gas - most use public transportation. Higher education is mostly paid for by the government - but the government decides if you are smart enough for the best Universities - Daddy can't get you in there as a legacy. The largest difference between the EU & US now is vacation time and, early retirement ,etc. If you are fresh out of college - perhaps your vacation time is limited to three months in the EU (which you can take consecutively) but most have 6 months they can take during the year... If you get sick - don't worry, the hospital will not rip you off and neither can Big Pharma. The problem with Europe began when it became the EU - you cannot have millions on vacation and except things to work - large companies moved out. They originally moved to the US - we never take vacation but now with all the cheap labor in Asia and Latin American - those large corporations are leaving the US. This is the cycle, France will go back to only making cheese and wine, Germany will make Glockenspiels and the US - if we are not a dust bowl (and get rid of GMO crops that we can't sell overseas) - will have smaller family farms. I will not have a neighbor (husband and wife) who own four cars - none of them "classic cars" or even remotely special, just grand waste! Blame people, blame the WMF and the IMF - the latter two have been manipulating all economies so that in the end, 99% will be slaves to the 1%. That will be true in EVERY country.

square dude

Then don't read or consider any option other that what you have been doing. I wonder what you will do when you have to defend you family against your neighbor over the pound of ground beef in your freezer or the can of peas in the pantry. The human species is not the most attractive bunch when they get hungery. You might want to consider that the next time you vote for someone that promises you the moon when he / she knows that they can only deliver Newark NJ. But, because you WANT the moon, and you don't want to PAY for the moon, you continue to re-elect the scumbag. That is, after all, what happened in Europe (Greece, Spain, and Portugal in Particular). They voted for people that promised them everything and now the bill is coming due. Care to dispute that?

It's not the banks who got us into 16 trillion of debt. It's Congress

No, it actually was the banks. One of the biggest drivers of the rising deficit was shrinking personal income - people don't pay taxes if they lose their job, and the crisis that the banks started lost 10 million people their jobs. Other major drivers were related to getting those people back to work. That spending wouldn't have been needed if the banks hadn't screwed us over in the first place.

Blaming Congress for the deficit is like getting a gash on your arm, then blaming the pain later on the doctor for putting your bandage on too tightly.

That spending wouldn't have been needed if the banks hadn't screwed us over in the first place.

And the unfunded wars, was that the banks' fault too? The budget is the responsibility of congress. If revenues decrease, so should spending. Balance the budget.

Don't worry; we're following Europe's lead directly into financial chaos complete with riots and violence and it will begin as soon as the dregs here discover their free stuff is no longer forthcoming.

This is guaranteed because we've elected the perfect president to insure this will happen.

I read these posts from well intentioned intelligent people with little understanding of how international commerce and banking works. If China wants to continue selling sneaker and iPhones in the US. They will continue to amass USD. They have a couple alternatives. They can sell the USD for some other currency or they can buy USD denominated assets. Plain and simple as the dollar weakens, the dollar demoninated assets look better. They will never stop buying our debt.

Secondly, the real problem is unfunded liabilities. So, it is true that we have been spending too much. Some of us complained when Ronald Reagan promised to cut taxes and spending. He kept half of that promise and huge (by 1980 standards) deficits came about. The miracle boom of the 80's was fueled by massive deficits and the unwinding of Paul Volcker's break inflation tight money (as a result, high interest rates) policy. The point is that in the medium term, we need to fix the unfunded liability issue.

So, to solve this issue, we need to cut the current deficit in a Simpson/Boles way, by raising revenue and cutting expenses, and we need to cut social security and medicare benefits or raise taxes for them with a combination of raising the stop out level on FICA, extending the working life and means testing the recipients.

In addition, one other thing that our society needs to come to grips with...we can not afford to spend $500K on the last 18 months of every baby boomers life....we need death panels. Insurance companies can make those allocations or the government can.

We need to get practical and forget the ideology.

"We need death panels" gets my award for quote of the day.

People die. No amount of money will change that. We need to decide on how much money and time we're willing to spend to keep someone at the end of their life alive, and then stick to it, because denying the inevitable is expensive and unsustainable.

Bad Animal

cliff notes:

You're f*cked due to decades of fiduciary tomfoolery.

Succinct and to the point. I like it.

Austerity for us. But there are no shortage of funds for wars/interventions in Syria and Iran!!!

Just like before each Iraqi wars, autocratic, highly corrupt and despotic bigoted Sunni Sunni Saudi, UAE, Qatar, Kuwaiti and Sunni oil rich nations are stage managing their dances and actions through oil companies, extremist Jewish lobbys and their puppets in the US, Britain, EU and other nations on Syria and Iran.

In Syria, Syrian rebels are backed by a-Qaida and MB.

In Egypt, Islamic fundamentalist Morsi is a front cover for the Sunni Islamic extremist Salaffi, MB and others.

With sanctions on Iranian oil, oil prices which was around $40 in 2009 has crossed $110 now.

If Iraqi wars gave us PIIGS, there will more nations added to PIIGS.

IRAQ WARS

Net results of Saudi, Kuwait, UAE, oil companies and their lobbyists directed 1991 and 2003 Iraqi wars are

WINNERS

1. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE and other rich ME sharks became richer by manipulating oil prices too high.

2. Oil companies and their lobbyists also benefitted. Oil prices, which were hardly $30 a barrel before 1991, shot up to $140 a barrel.

3. Since 2003, future traders, rating agencies, Wall Street and oil companies and their lobbyists transferred five trillion dollars from oil importing countries to oil exporting nations.

4. Rich Sunni ME sharks (Saudi Arabia in particular) funded Salaffi and Wahhabi mosques and Islamic radicals and terrorists all over the world. These Sunni Islamic radicals and terrorists are rampaging all over the world. World’s 80 percent of problems are due to them.

LOSERS

1. General US and European nations’ public. There have been high unemployment, cut in welfare measures, housing market collapse and more miseries. Since 2001, US spent three trillion dollars on Iraq and Afghan wars. Did the Saudis and co foot the bill?

2. Poor soldiers killed and injured and their families. In Iraq and Afghan wars 6300 soldiers were killed and 40000 injured.

3. High budget deficits and heavier borrowing. Many nations (PIIGS) and people are on line to bankruptcy!

4. Iraq will plunge into bloody sectarian civil wars leading to the creation of Shiastan, Sunnistan and Kurdistan. Here the losses are of Iraqis.

Hey, I'm all for reductions in military spending, but this isn't the place to preach about Saudi Arabia, Jon.

yeahbuhwha?

One of the biggest drivers of the rising deficit was shrinking personal income - people don't pay taxes if they lose their job, and the crisis that the banks started lost 10 million people their jobs. Other major drivers were related to getting those people back to work.

I agree with you that the government has taken in less taxes than in days gone by, due partially to unemployment. However, deficits only occur when you spend more than you make. Only Congress can spend -- I refer you to Article I, Sections 7 and 8 of the Constitution.

Blaming Congress for the deficit is like getting a gash on your arm, then blaming the pain later on the doctor for putting your bandage on too tightly.

Blaming Congress for the deficit is like losing your leg in a traffic accident (which may have been your fault), then blaming the doctor for giving you a bandaid and two aspirin as treatment.

Would you rather the doctor not give you anything for your lost leg? I mean, now that you've had a traffic accident you need to pay for a new car, insurance deductible, etc. - we've got to keep a balanced checkbook here, after all! Let it bleed! Nuts to that whole, you know, "staying alive" thing.

You've kind of dragged the metaphor out of its relevant territory, yeah.

@yeahbuhwha @ Dingle,

You might want to remember back to which president pressured banks into making those sub-prime loans which you are blaming completely on the banks.

While Monica blew, willie knew.....and still decided that everyone needed to own their own home, even though they couldn't pay for it. Dumber people (and even some semi-intelligent ones) went out and bought and bought without giving a second thought to the fact that they couldn't pay that ARM back if the rate ever rose. They were mortgaged to the hilt and still trying to borrow based on falsely inflated market prices for real estate.

That being said, a lot of folks here and overseas have self-inflicted knife wounds and are blaming the overseas manufacturer, the doctor and everyone else because they were too stupid to not stab themselves!

yeahbuhwha?

Would you rather the doctor not give you anything for your lost leg? I mean, now that you've had a traffic accident you need to pay for a new car, insurance deductible, etc. - we've got to keep a balanced checkbook here, after all! Let it bleed! Nuts to that whole, you know, "staying alive" thing.

Given the choice (which I have not) between (a) the doctor giving me nothing and charging me nothing, and (b) the doctor giving me a bandaid and two aspirin and charging me $1,500, I would choose the former.

Square dude:

Some people, like myself, enjoy reading long blogs such as the one from Chris. His phrase "drunken sailors ... in a whorehouse" is particularly memorable.

Chris erroneously equated USA with Greece. Actually, Greece is in better shape than USA as it does not have a printing press whereas the Federal Reserve's printing press has allowed USA to 'kick the can down the road.' Eventually, the whole thing explodes and everyone in USA gets wiped-out.

"If you take a bucket of water from the deep end of the pool and throw it into the shallow end, does the water level in the pool rise?"

Yes. When you take the bucket of water from the deep end, technically the water recedes. Then when you throw it back into the shallow end, the water rises.

Anything else?

Ted Kennedy says Cuber

"If you take a bucket of water from the deep end of the pool and throw it into the shallow end, does the water level in the pool rise?"

Yes. When you take the bucket of water from the deep end, technically the water recedes. Then when you throw it back into the shallow end, the water rises.

Close. If you really want to be technical, when you take the bucket of water from the deep end, the water level falls. "Recedes" would technically mean the water is moving roughly horizontally, not vertically, as in tide or flood water. Have a nice day.

You are RIGHT! Nice work! You have a nice day too, denver bill 2 :)

Thank you. It is refreshing to occasionally run into someone here who can disagree without being disagreeable.

navyvet98

Even odumbo cannot spend what he does not have.

I suggest, for your reading enjoyment, the history and fiscal policies of the Weimar Republic. Homework assignment: Confirm or deny that Hitler's rise to power was a direct result of England and France refusing to let Germany off the hook for WWI reparations .... which in turn was driven by the USA refusing to let them off the hook for WWI war debts.

navyvet98:

If you're equating the current financial crises all around the U.S. to the issuance of "welfare checks", you're not being very observant. And this babble about 'slaves selling their souls and liberty' is just overheated, meaningless, hyperbolic nonsense. Grow up.

I will say, however, that when the economic reality hits this country's economy - and it will - you too will be inclined to revolt, navy vet or no navy vet.

Yet I agree with what you tried to say, that you cannot spend what you do not have. Everyone should (had better) keep that thought in mind as they go about their merry holiday shopping sprees.

GM Bill,

I would agree and add that the US however seems bound and determined to pay reparations to countries and peoples that have "been made whole" 35 times over with money that we don't have (hence borrowing it from the Chinese, there is a bright idea, NOT)

For the past several decades, Americans have been spending what they do not have. To do that, Americans have been borrowing money from even the poorest of nations to sustain their illusion of the American Dream. Once the world's greatest creditor, America is the world's greatest debtor, today.

Not counting the debts to European and Third World nations, America owes China and Japan, $1.2trillion and $1trillion, respectively. Combined with its massive national debt, America is hopelessly insolvent and cannot repay these loans. America has become the world's Dead Beat. Too many Americans are too arrogant to admit that their low productivity cannot justify their American standard of living.

The tide of economic forces cannot be denied forever. The day of reckoning will come to restore equilibrium and restructure the economic imbalances caused by the Federal government and Federal Reserve.

Americans will experience the same kind of riots and violence as in European, except there will be more death and mayhem as gun slinging Americans are trigger happy.

WallStFatCat

I believe you are mistaken, according to the ultra-libs, only the 1% republicans have guns and since republicans won't be rioting because they are all rich beyond belief, the passive and peace loving liberal downtrodden will all be protesting by singing Michael row your boat ashore or something. There will be no violence.

Washington needs to figure out he least damaging approach to getting our fiscal house in order. And if that means broad-based tax increases as well as cuts in spending on non-essential services, then so bet it.

Lets put the tax rates back the way they were under clinton and start phasing out silly deductions. We are on the path to austerity in 5 or 6 years. Its time to trim while we still can do so.

Amen, Derek. Tax reform, welfare reform, budgeting... the answers have been there all along, but our leaders are terrified of voter wrath. Well Obama, you're not getting re-elected again anyway, so it's time to make some tough decisions.

For starters, medicare and medicaid need to be combined into one program that dispenses money based on financial need only. Tax breaks need to rolled back unless they're part of a coherent, directed energy or economic policy. Retirement age needs to rise. The good times are over, and if we don't cut now they'll never be back.

Navyvet, what are you talking about?

Even odumbo cannot spend what he does not have.

He's been doing exactly that (1 trillion + deficit spending) every year for his entire first term. He's gonna be doing it for each of his remaining 4 years as well.

Already the deficit for the current fiscal year has hit 120 billion putting him on track for a total spending deficit approaching 1.5 trillion.

You do realize that without the 1%, a huge portion of the 99% wouldn't have jobs don't you?

Look at your paycheck, unless you work for one of the unions, it isn't from the UAW, IBEW, iron workers, etc, it is likely from someone in the top 30% of earners in the US.

Everyone can't be a 1%er, everyone can't be a bartender either. It takes a balance of every rung of the ladder.

So after we unite, then what?

Do we attack the 1% and take their money? Pull them down so that they're not any richer than us?

And more importantly, does that make the NEW 1% of top earners instantly responsible for all our problems?

Citizens of the "western world" are the 1% compared to the rest of the world.

LynyrdSky:

Americans want lots of "freebies" without having to pay for it: high wages through legislation; entitlement programs; government assistance and subsidies.

Unwilling to tax the people to pay for all these 'freebies,' the politicians borrow the money from foreign nations such as China and Japan. The Federal Reserve's printing press makes up any shortfalls by selling money to the WallSt bankers who in turn lend it to the Federal government.

Instead of blaming the banks or foreign nations for America's economic misery, Americans should begin blaming themselves for believing that wealth can be legislated and created out of nothing. Unfortunately, many Americans are too ignorant to admit their own arrogance.

If banks lent to organizations that can't pay, then they're on the hook along with the borrower. I see that argument often and I still can't figure out how it makes any sense. There is no "takeover" by the banks, because if governments can't pay the banks, the banks don't get control of the government or anything of the sort.

And WallSt is right; every population loves to see new programs, raises, and pensions but hates to have more money taken out of their paycheck. The disconnect between getting the services and paying for them gives the impression that some nebulous "other entities" are at fault when things go wrong. The answer is in the budget, and the cause is voters who refuse to accept that government cannot provide everything they want with other people's money.

You know, maybe it's just me, but you seem to have some sort of grudge against Spain.

Methinks that you might not be the best source for unbiased information on their crisis.

no he is just one more teaparty bigot that has never been anywhere in his life. Probably some Spainish chick told him he was tiny or something. Most of these messages are about the same, we aren't in the same mess yet but we are headed there. I have lived in Spain last there in May amost 25% of the economy is black now, meaning it is barter or under the table. Austerity which also means raising taxes doesn't work, people just avoid it, the simpler the tax code the better. Read some stupid fool here talk about life in China, i am writing this in China now, here for work, they aren't going to take over the world and have their own issues anyway. We will muddle through

Bailouts. That's the end of capitalism. Only one or two companies selling your products and services. That's the end of capitalism.

How are government bankruptcies the end of capitalism? Or anything LIKE the end of capitalism?

Rah13, actually you have it backwards, the socialist economies are failing, the Chinese even realized this and molded their own economy to an enforced capitalistic system. The more socialist that the EU and USA economies become, the more they sink.

It is about the survival of the fittest, if you socialize the unfit, then all fail sooner or later. Does anyone remember what a shambles the USSR economy was when they finally failed. Their money was worth nothing in the outside world, they were required to pay hard currency for anything they bought from other countries. EU put themselves in that same boat and once again, those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat its mistakes.

The wealthy prefer a welfare state, they are doing the best they can to keep as many people as possible unemployed because funding poverty grants is a lot cheaper than funding middle class jobs. Man oh man do these liars have you people dumb and working against yourselves and the rest of humanity too! You are dumb! Dumb, dumb, dumb! The protests are about the rich hoarding all the money and the lack of jobs you dumbie! Man oh man, do you they have you people stupid and working against yourselves! And you worship them! You worship lying greedmongers instead of God! I feel so much pity for you. I pray you too lose your job today so you might come to realize truth and save your soul from damnation.

Your grasp of economics is a tad shaky there, Joseph. People don't "fund" middle class jobs. They need something done, and they pay for that. It's a trade. Welfare is giving someone money for existing and not producing enough to take care of themselves.

I also find it repulsive that someone who professes to worship a god would pray for someone else's misfortune. I was not aware there was any religion that terrible or petty. Perhaps you should reflect upon your choice of gods and think on whether encouraging poverty to encourage empathy is in line with its values.

@SF You hit the nail on the head,

@ Joseph Lenin, Only a complete hypocrite would tell someone how dumb they are and then pray for them to lose their job, pretty insulting all the way around

I'm sure the taxpayers of states that subsidize the poorer red states will be relieved.

The parasites are the wealthy and they have you as stupid as can be and working against yourself as much as possible. Congrats, dupe. Angry? I got your attention now? Pull your head out of your ass. The wealthy are the ones who don't want to work and they are the ones who don't want to create jobs for others while they pollute and destroy our planet. Green jobs and full employment economy are possible but dumb people like you love the corrupt and the misery they inflict upon others. May you lose your job today so you might come to some important realizations and your soul might be saved. Homelessness is better than going to hell.

Captive, 250,000 looks like a lot richer than I am, suppose if your one of the 1% then 250000 would look like the poor rich. Scam is when you brain wash people into thinking they are overtaxed when the opposite is true, we paid much more in taxes in the past yet had fewer benefits, I have to wonder if the Conservatives believe they can starve the govt into getting smaller when all they will accomplish is to destroy our nation Greek style. Also believe we need to cut sacred cows in the federal budget as well.

I'm glad that most of the police officers have a better grasp of law, order, and common sense than you do.

Keynesian economics helped to get us INTO this mess. If the so-called Keynesian multiplier was 1.5, as the CBO uses in their modeling, we would be in fine shape. Unfortunately, recent empirical results suggest a Keynesian multiplier far less--closer to 0.3 to 0.5.

Here are the results of the federal stimulus over the last few years:

GDP – US$

2007: 14,028.7 B

2008: 14,369.1 B

2009: 13,939.0 B

2010: 14,526.5 B

2011: 15,094.0 B

2012: 15,601.5 B (US budget)

Annual federal deficit in US$:

2008: 458.55 B

2009: 1,412.69 B

2010: 1,293.49 B

2011: 1,299.59 B

2012: 1,326.95 B (US budget)

%GDP Increase (annual):

2008: +2.43%

2009: -2.99%

2010: +4.21%

2011: +3.91%

2012: +3.36%

%GDP Stimulus (annual; federal deficit $/avg. GDP):

2008: +3.23%

2009: +9.98%

2010: +9.09%

2011: +8.77%

2012: +8.65%

%GDP Net ‘Growth’ (%GDP increase - %GDP Stimulus):

2008: -0.80%

2009: -12.97%

2010: -4.88%

2011: -4.86%

2012: -5.29%

The above Net GDP ‘Growth’ assumes zero growth from the private sector. Our stimulus ‘investment’
has earned us a negative return. The implied multiplier effect is as follows (assuming 0% private sector growth is ‘best case’ for
stimulus):

2008: +0.75

2009: -0.29

2010: +0.46

2011: +0.45

2012: +0.39

Keynesian economics isn't proven. Far from it; there's a lot of economic theory that works against Keynesian principles that are just as "proven". However, Keynes' theories are far more convenient for politicians that want to justify using tax money to boost the economy, when conventional econonics suggests it would be better left in the hands of the people who earn it.

It would be fine to spend in bad times and save in good times, but most politicians aren't economists, and they don't do that. If you just spend, spend, spend, then eventually people are going to stop lending to you. And thus we have the current austerity drives.

Any one can fudge numbers and make it look good on paper..LOL

Do you have better numbers to show us? Or do you just like to LOL at data because actual information might challenge your own point of view?

Well, the "fiscal cliff" looks like a tourniquet to me. Of course, Washington seems intent on avoiding it.

What cliff? We have fallen off the cliff and i dont think the Bungee cord is working..The Workers were laid off and Bungee Cord was made in China..

Thank you for torturing my analogy to death without even bothering to make a real point. I appreciate it.

You DO know that the government doesn't control the central bank, right? Even if the Democrats wanted to do that, it's impossible unless they first pass laws to give them control over the Fed (unlikely with Republicans holding the House). Or are you just venting over the election?

Correction it was 1913 when the Federal Reserve was created so that would make it a mere 16 years til our first Great Depression.

And who, praytell, is going to control the elites?

Since you seem to think regulation is a magic bullet for keeping businesses in line (ignoring the fact that banks and corporations that list stock options ARE heavily regulated), I can only assume that you think the government will do it. The government that is made up largely of the same elites, because trying to actively AVOID sending our best and brightest to positions of power is patently idiotic.

What I'm trying to point out is that those "elites" are not separate from the government, though you try to present the government as being alternatively the solution to the problem and a component of elite control. The government is just as responsible, and in many cases much more responsible, for the failure of the system it is trying and failing to control. If you give the government enough unchecked power then they will just share it with their friends and use it for their own benefit, just like bankers or corporate bosses. You can see it easily in pretty much every authoritarian state on the planet.

The financial industry was systematically deregualted beginning with Regan and even Clinton jumped on board. Bush Jr really set the vultures free. Obama has placed some regulation in place but corporations still continue not only unethical but at times illegal behaviors for they know that current laws limit liability and if caught the fines don't begin to compare to the profits gained from their illegal tactics.

I did not vote for Obama or Romney. I don't subscribe to these two dysfunctional and corrupt political parties. The human species as a whole entity may not be capable of ethical behavior but there should be someone who is capable of ethical behavior watching the goings on in commerce. That ethical someone will not be found in this two party one agenda political system. Our best and brightest is a great idea as long as they have an ethics structure to guide them. Without ethics we will see more of the same and great suffering to come in the future.

Yeah, okay, so your complaint amounts to "the rich and powerful are unethical". Incredibly vague (and nigh impossible to fix, since ethics only become more subjective and fuzzy when one enters the political sphere where you're expected to control these businesses), but sure.

By the way, the bane of all corporate accounting departments is the Sarbanes-Oxley act, enacted in 2002 during George Bush's term. So no, he didn't set the "vultures" free, and in fact let congress clip their wings savagely in response to the Enron scandal. Not saying that he was a good president or anything, but I'm wondering just what major regulations he rolled back as he was putting all those new ones in place?

It was 1913 but other than that you nailed it.

Dismantle the FED.

Red Sailor I agree that dismantling the Federal Reserve would be a good start but it will not happen as long as this two party one agenda corporate owned political system controls the government. The Federal Reserve was not what our forefathers envisioned and they were far wiser than so called modern political thinking. Bottom line it will take a third party legally responsible to enact their platform promises. The only way to make that happen is to sweep out all legislative branches as well as the presidency replacing it with a third party. That is an enormous undertaking. Most likely history will repeat itself with same old story of bloody upheavals and after the dust settles the old guard will come back in and begin to dismantle what blood and tears have struggled to build.In the final analysis, one can only hope that the human species is ready to move toward a positive fair and just society

Sf Accountant Bush turned a blind to many atrocities that were being committed in the corporate world. During his reign there was a revolving door between key governmental positions and the corporate world. An example of this would be the EPA. I would agree more government codes were implemented during Bush's presidency than his predecessor. Ironic that the Republican are always bitching about that and then they pass more laws than the Democrats. Another example of this would be the current tax codes which is a mess.

With regards to ethics being fuzzy that is a contemporary mindset problem. It is easy to know what the right thing to do is but it is difficult to do and requires moral courage and a willingness to sacrifice oneself if necessary. By sacrifice oneself I do not mean becoming a suicide bomber either.

I would illustrate by relaying a story. My father saw a man sexually harassing a woman at the water fountain where he worked. He did not look the other way but instead approached the woman and told her if she wished to file charges he would support her. He was an ethical man and willing to stand up for someone who was in a subordinate position. That is leadership. The woman was too afraid to file so my father had a talk with the man and that put a stop to the harassment. When he had to speak to congressional repesenatives he told them the truth even though it did not make him popular. Unfortunately what politicians do with the truth is often a disappointment.

SF Accountant I am curious how you see Bush as clipping the corporate worlds wings when Derivatives and all the predatory lending practices flourished during his eight years in office?