Neither are taking preventive drugs and heart transplants natural but they sure are welcomed when needed.

In America outlawing abortions will work as well as Prohibition. Everybody just stopped drinking, didn't they?

How disgusting. I can't stand it when people think a fetus is more important than the woman carrying it. These doctors should be sued, then should be fired from their jobs. Their medical licenses should be revoked. Absolutely shameful and disgusting. The woman is ALWAYS more important. SHE is viable life. She has a family and has lived on this earth for years. I suppose the doctors agree with our equally crazy American GOP reps that think "abortion is a gift from god" and women who are raped know how to "shut that whole thing down" to prevent pregnancy. Idiots. Nothing but idiots. Unprofessional idiots at that. It is the woman's choice, and always should be.

These people trying to invade and take over womens' bodies are terrorists and nothing more.

poor-kids

i don't see how you could fall on the side of abortion saying it's a brutal fact when you could just as easily say denied abortions is a brutal fact. evolution has nothing to do with a doctor forcibly removing a human being from someone. it has not always been around. it is not "natural".

Tell that to the dead woman in the story. She died so Roman Catholics could feel good about themselves...pretty sad in my humble opinion.

Poor-kids
Women have sought abortions since they figured out why their tummy grew and a baby popped out. In the past it was 'the old woman who lived at the edge of town', or the 'friendly' family doctor and a midnight visit to his office, or a back alley butcher, or (for the rich) a 'vacation' in Europe.

You can't stop abortions until you ensure that every child is both wanted and modern medicine can guarentee the mother's life. Period.

Back when Roe v. wade was being litigated the saying was 'safe, seldom, and legal'. Women died of being pregnant every day. And there is absolutely no moral reason why any woman should be left to die based on your (or anyone else's) outdated ideas.

Ol_Doc worse than that tell that to the remaining family that now goes through life without their mother.

Poor-Kids, what you are writing is complete BS! The mother's life is ALWAYS more important. They have responsibilities, commitments and attachments. Ofcourse, you feel bad for the fetus but that in noway justifies their life when putting the mothers in danger.

poor kids,seems to be a troll to incense people.

Travis from New England - Rubbish. Maybe you would find life more to your liking in Sudan or Somalia.

"poor kids"?

What about this poor mother?

The anti-abortion crowd "chose life" and saved neither.

Stupid.

@!$%# ireland

i don't see how you could fall on the side of abortion saying it's a brutal fact when you could just as easily say denied abortions is a brutal fact. evolution has nothing to do with a doctor forcibly removing a human being from someone. it has not always been around. it is not "natural".

Well let's see, the child was already dying. It did in fact die. So doing nothing and letting the woman die accomplished what? Only the truly stupid could be in favor of that. The Catholic Church has been on the ropes for several years now due to the sexual abuse and other physical abuse of children in their "care" hopefully this will kill it off.

This is what happens when a country singularly enforces their religious beliefs on others. Of course logically people can say "don't go there" but that's just an infantile response.

No matter what, this hospital is in the wrong. They made a gross mistake and a woman paid for it with her life because as someone said, they wanted to feel good about themselves and ensure they get into heaven. The woman herself was neither Irish nor Catholic and therefor did not adhere to their beliefs. Yet she was forced to do so against her will and it the price of that was her life.

Using logic (which poor kids I think hates). The fetus was in the process of dying. It was not a viable pregnancy and even still when asked to terminate, they allowed no only the mother to suffer but the fetus as well. So in a way, the hospital with its religious beliefs caused suffering on a woman and her child that could have easily been taken care of. It was medically necessary. This woman did not just go out, get knocked up and decided she wanted an abortion. She was in medical need, it wasn't as if she wanted to terminate because she was a whore, it was because the child was literally dying inside of her.

So really, the hospital did the most uncatholic thing that they could possibly do. Make a woman endure days of suffering and agony as well as the loss of her child for their religious beliefs.

More women will live if the Roman Catholic Church is dissolved. The fetus was dying a sure death. The Roman Catolic Church and its condescending moral paltitudes killed the mother. The Roman Catholic Church has brainwashed minions world-wide who will continue to do its bidding without any critical thinking on their own part. They are brainwashed from birth and live within the clutches of the church as a result.The Roman Catholic Church DOES NOTeven REMOTELY follow the bible. What a farce of an organization. It's disgusting how much power it has to abuse children and kill women.

Yet another step down in the Catholic decline. Why does anyone practice this branch of Christianity when there are so many more humane ones available? I don't recall the Bible saying anything about a pope.

There was no reason not to do everything they could to save the woman's life, even if it included aborting the baby! This to me was malpractice, if not a case of manslaughter.....

AG99

You must not have grown up catholic. Not only does the bible not mention a pope, it also does not mention that you MUST confess your sins to a PRIEST before taking communion, nor does it mention that you MUST NOT eat meat on Fridays during lent (???!!!???), nor does it mention that you MUST be a member of the Roman Catholic Church to receive communion, nor does it mention that you MUST NOT share communion in a Roman Catholic Church with any of your noncatholic CHRISTIAN friends, nor does it mention that noncatholic Christians MUST NOT be given communion in Roman Catholic Church, nor does it mention that worship services in any other denomination DO NOT COUNT as worship and it is a SIN if you attend them in place of a Roman Catholic Mass, nor does it mention the GRADATIONS OF SIN (venial, mortal, etc.). I could go on and on with the TOTAL RUBBISH they forced me and millions of others to learn and live by. The Roman Catholic Church is a pall on mankind.

...."mommas don't let your babies grow up to be catholics..." is what Waylon Jennings and Willie Nelson should have been singing.

poor kids: no ones life is more important than anyone else's.

That means you as well. Your life and your opinions and your opinions of life are no more important, no more right, no more the law than anyone else's. You can't force your belief, your religion, your philosophy on anyone else. There are going to be lots of things in life that you don't like. Get over it.

Believe what you want. But stay out of my beliefs, those are mine.

This what happens when white men in power have do decide anything about women. They just don't really care and by the way this woman was a wog right. There are many backward countries in the world, when a life is in ex tremis other laws should take effect to save what life that can be saved. This was a giving member of their society and should have been saved.

poor-kids the fetus had a heartbeat; they weren't willing to sacrifice one life for another. consistent, principled stance. sorry for the lack of hyperbole.

But they sacrificed both, didn't they.

What we fail to see here is the idiotic logic that puts one life over the other without measuring the consequences. The deceased was not looking to interrupt a pregnancy because she did not want the baby. She was requesting to end the pregnancy because her life was in danger. She could have had other children with the proper care given her medical condition. But in order to perpetuate a stupid logic and law (unfortunately, we can blame the doctors to some extent, they were between a rock and a hard place. The law in Ireland considers doing an abortion illegal therefore in order to protect a life they would have to break the law and they could face criminal charges). If you want to lay blame where it belongs, do it on the Irish Parliament, who lacks the guts to understand that not all the conditions leading to an abortion are the same, and they stick to archaic principles. Due to their inaction, not only they deprived that gentleman from a child, but also from the wife whom which they conceived that child. They cannot swipe a life away in order to protect another life, because they become then judge, jury and executioner. And if I am not mistaken only their creator has those powers.

This is a shame on all humanity that puts religion above the freedom for anyone to choose life instead of dying alongside her unborn fetus. The church does not force her to practice their religion. The hospitals and doctors refuse to commit a crime against the state and go to prison.

The fault lies directly at the feet of those that support such archaic laws and the dirty weak-kneed politicians willing to enact such laws in pandering for votes. Each and every one of you are guilty of murdering this poor woman. I'd like to be a fly on the wall when you pious fools meet God on your judgement day.

Barlow, why are you bringing race into this, do you think no other race does anything like this? Chinese kill their daughters because having a son is more important financially and culturally. Men from Congo, Nigeria, Sudan etc. mutilate the women and young girls they live with to conrtol them. Don't even get me started on what Arabs do to women.

Religion was created to explain the unexplainable, then used to control people, especially the Roman Catholic church. And no im not an athiest trying to be hateful, I am agnostic and believe something is out there, but will never believe in something humans have scribbled onto paper and use it as way to manipulate and control the masses.

Aahh, poor-kids, for one thing, a heartbeat doesn't equal brain activity. For another thing, the fetus was effectively dead the instant the miscarriage began. That fetus was never going to be born alive, but you're happy to kill the woman too just for your filthy "principles"...

How many people think that if men were the ones to go through this, the law would be changed so fast it wouldn't even have had time to hit the headlines?

@poor-kids - there's nothing consistent or principled about forcing a woman to use her body to keep a fetus alive while not also forcing you to, say, donate a piece of your liver to keep somebody alive who will die without a liver transplant. Note that since livers regenerate you'd be expected come out of an LDLT just fine and you would not be able to use the argument that the recipient's life is not more important than yours as the basis for your refusal.

Well let's see, the child was already dying. It did in fact die. So doing nothing and letting the woman die accomplished what? Only the truly stupid could be in favor of that.

Well said. "The Stupid Party," has a well earned name. Now, the republican party, if they ever want to win elections in the U.S., would be wise to cut the, "Stupid Party," loose. Eventually, people in the middle will move back in, and we might have a reasonable group besides the democrats, capable of actually representing people, in opposition again. Right now, the Terrorist Party is calling the shots at GOP, and they are no more viable than that poor fetus was.

dsb, and anyone else who is interested, long before doctors, women were terminating pregnancies using the appropriate herbs. I have 2 in my herb bed that I grow just because I like the feeling of knowing they are there.

sure, you say until it happens to your family... REMEMBER, these are the same people who will ask their relatives to fix their parking tickets, they steal office pens, they fill up their water cups with soda, the same ones who cheat on their taxes, the same one one who claim their daughter is 11 (to get that child discount)...

SHAME ON YOU...

Here is an example of the typical people without real principle. Travis from Soviet wrote Sun Nov 11 in regards to Irish killed fighting for their liberty and independence: “Millions, really? I mean, yeah Northern Ireland wasn't a very nice place 20 years ago but it wasn't damn Stalingrad. Get a grip already.”

?? It wasn’t damn Stalingrad??... YOU SERIOUS?? GET OVER IT!!! It really appears that it is you who have an issue and only when it effect YOU... lol, what a chum...

I can't figure out what Travis is saying; I thought he disagreed with abortion, and anybody who dies because of a life-threatening circumstance is only whining. Maybe there was a double-negative that I didn't catch.

It is a shame that this young woman had to die. Her only crime was that she was a woman, and for that she received the death penalty. Does Ireland have the death penalty?

My heart bleeds for the husband and the family.

Chock up another death in the name of God.

Still in the 21st century we have masses of people that believe in invisible beings.

But I guess the unborn baby and the mothers dying were all part of their invisible beings plan?

Makes me sick to my stomach when ever I hear someone say something so asinine as that.

A half-decent reason for saving a woman's life? The reason that they let here die is because they think that's what an imaginary creature wants.

@poor-kids - for what has there not been a single half descent [sic] reason? Forcing a woman to carry a non-viable fetus at the expense of her own life? That I would have to agree with.

poor kids, just FYI, according to medical professional, a fetus has little to no viability outside of the womb until it is at least 20 weeks old. Since this one was only 17 weeks old, it had no chance of being viable outside the womb. It should have been aborted, for humanities sake. It wasn't until the 20th century that abortions even became relavent in the US. Even in 1973, you weren't a person untl you are born. It has been that way through out history. Do you get a SSN# for an unborn child? No. It has to be born first. Realize that if a fetus is considered a person, then the song "Happy Birthday" will no longer be a valid song to sing, as your life started at conception. Think about how many other things would be impacted by going with your definition of life begins at conception. All miscarriages could become prosecutable (as a certain politician in Georgia wanted to do), and then tell me exactly how you would enforce said notion, if it were made into law? Do we put cameras in every room of every house to see who and when each woman is having sex with to get a more accurate time of conceptin, or do we implant an electronic device in the uterus of every childbearing female that sends a signal to an outside device that tells when conception has taken place? Would that be your idea of small gov't.? Also, please find another nomer other than "pro-life". It is prejudice at best as it only applies to humans and not all animal life, otherwise you'd be a vegan and a member of PETA.

poor kids - How many comments down are we, and not a single half-decent reason offered from the great bastion of liberalism known as msnbc?

Why are you even reading this article if you hate msnbc, and then even commenting? You are alone in your opinion, so give it up already. (BTW, I corrected your spelling and punctuation. No thanks necessary...)

JoAnn - The doctors efforts to save the mother would have probably failed.

Wow. I doubt that you have a medical degree, or you wouldn't have made such an incredibly ignorant statement. I suggest you hope you never find yourself or someone you love in such a position where the doctor stands around and watches you die, and says, "Too bad; but these things happen, you know."

Wow, Jo Ann, did you read the whole article? Your post makes little sense, to me.

Well said, mozzie.

Jo Ann,

Congratulations. That is probably the most ignorant, callous, insensitive, uninformed, steaming pile of horse crap I have ever had the misfortune to read.

@Jo Ann-666954 - the hospital is refusing to say whether doctors believe the victim's blood poisoning could have been reversed had the fetus been aborted, yet somehow you know that the woman probably could not have been saved? People are making a big deal out of this precisely because the doctors might have been able to save the victim's life had Irish law not stood in their way.

@ poor-kids post 1.1,

Why does it take a full year after a child is born to be 1 year old? When was this way of marking ones age been around and why? This has no bearing on what the right thing to do in this woman case was. She was dying and needed to have this child taken out from what I understand. With the knowledge of how the human body works and our knowledge of what was wrong, doing nothing was tantamount to murder. Some one wrote the other day in a post, we treat animals better than we treat other human beings in this world and this seems to be one of those cases. You wouldn't let a dog die if you knew the unborn puppies where killing her or would you? If your answer is yes wouldn't that be animal cruelty?

"Again on Tuesday morning ... the consultant said it was the law, that this is a Catholic country.

Mrs. Halappanavar's death is outrages! With acute blood a poisoning and severe illness, Savita was a woman begging that her pregnancy be terminated to save her own life. What did she hear: [As long as a fetus has a heartbeat, the doctors could not end her pregnancy.] What about Savita's heartbeat? The Catholic church's dogma on banning contraception and ending a pregnancy is non-practical, cannot be biblically supported and directly dangers the life of women. It does not make sense for the Catholic Church to protect pedophiles and let innocent women die.

I am sick of these catholic @!$%#s. I have first hand experience of my own wife almost dying from her miscarriage and these catholic doctors at Nyack hospital refusing to help her.

Why are somebody's religious beliefs enforced on those of us who dont give a crap about what they believe. Catholicism has become fanaticism in modern america. Just let us live our lives the way we want to live them.

Ooooh, I can see rich nut-job republicans everywhere around the US, sitting there smoking their illegal Havanas and saying "Now THAT is the way to run a country! Go Ireland."

Wow. A lovely woman gone and a young husband left without her. All because of some stupid religious ideology.

You can't make this s**t up, folks.

I'm at a loss for words.

holy crap joanne you are dumber than a box of rocks. really? dont do anything to save the mother because 'it happens'? if you have a heart attack i wonder if you will stand by and think, hey it happens and its time to die.

poor kids, a mothers life has no importance and not worth saving? where on earth is that pro-life? you are pro-fetus that is it. you dont care what happens to any life as long as a baby is born. a man goes home everyday now without his wife. how could that have no meaning to you? you must not have ever been loved to have no compassion.

WATCH OUT, PEOPLE! This -- the "heart-beat law"-- is exactly what the Ohio legislature is attempting to pass RIGHT NOW: no abortion once you have a fetal heart beat, for any reason.

The rights of an existing human being always, ALWAYS supersede the rights of a potential human being. ALWAYS.

For all you "life begins at conception" people, let me clarify, the sperm is already alive, the egg is already alive, the two coming together just start off a cell replication process, that's it, there was no magic life-spark happening, both were already alive or else all you would have was a mess. You can't even pick a human fetus out of a line-up of other animal fetuses until around 7 weeks, hell it will have a tail for another week or two after that.

Your views were drilled into you when you were young and at church, by the same people that told you a boy could live in a whale for 3 days. Your opinion, my opinion, hell anyone's opinion other than the woman carrying the baby should be ignored. You wouldn't want her to tell you that you had to keep an inflamed appendix because "god put it there for a reason" would you? (BTW the cells in an appendix replicate too and are also alive, granted they don't grow into babies, but "at conception" is basically the same cellular state and you argue for its right to exist.)

The fact is, this woman is dead because of your views being pushed onto a sick woman that didn't share them.

If MEN could become pregnant there would be Drive-Thru Abortions at McDonalds and Blue Light Specials at K-Mart!!! Jesus H Christ...........................................................................

Until MEN can concieve and carry a pregnancy to term then they need to SHUT THE HELL UP about WOMEN'S CHOICES over THEIR OWN BODIES!!!

Tell you what guys, we'll let you KEEP YOUR GUNS if you LET US KEEP OUR RIGHTS!

Love the way everyone puts a spin on my comment. I did not say just let the mother die.

The mother was miscarrying. The baby was dying. By all means try and save the mother.

Do everything possible to save the mother BUT if all else fails and the doctors could not save the mother with the best medical care and the mother still dies then there is nothing no one can do about it.

a miscarrying woman suffering from blood poisoning who was refused a quick termination of her pregnancy

A miscarriage is a termination. It's the same thing.

I don't understand why the issue of abortion even comes up. When a baby is dying, once the process begins nothing can be done. The next step is to save the mother.

Eevie: Doctors will move out of Ohio.

Ohio medical centers are a resource for Ohio and our whole country:

Goodbye Cleveland Clinic. Goodbye many other top-rated institutions in Ohio that up to now were so much better than hospitals in New York, California, and everywhere else.

The Republicans sent national money to put these knuckle-dragging state representatives into the statehouse of Ohio, and I think it was so that they could steal our doctors. Well, you won't get them Republicans, because those doctors aren't about to move to Republican states that won't let them practice real medicine.

So, I can only think that this "Republican" money was in fact foreign money: people came from many countries for surgery at Cleveland Clinic. Now they will go to medical facilities some place else. Outsourced again. I am very angry, doubly angry, because this kind of craziness is going to hurt the American economy.

Jo Ann - the point you are missing is that this miscarriage took 3 DAYS. The mother was severely ill. The fetus was destined to die. But the doctors insisted on letting the fetus die naturally rather than hastening the inevitable. Had the pregnancy been artificially terminated, the mother's body might have been able to fight the infection and she could still be alive. We'll never know. But by leaving that dying baby insider of her, fighting for her weakened resources over the course of 3 days, the hospital pretty much ensured BOTH lives would be lost. If life is so sacred, how can these doctors NOT act when the mother's life might have been spared?

The Catholic Church DOES ALLOW ABORTION if the life of the mother is in danger. Major tragedy here and the staff at the hospital should have known the correct teaching they thought they were adhering to.

Unfortunately when you base your laws off a supposed Gods words, then things become absolute. You end up with people who don't even believe in gods being subjected to them. Look how long it took to allow condoms in Ireland, hell look at the number of people that die from AIDs in Africa from the same stupid anti-contraception laws. If religion makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, that's swell, but when you start making laws out of its tenets, people die, real people. Every major religion is from the Bronze Age or earlier, back when thunder was caused by an upset god, its 2012 time to let go of your security blanket named "god". The adults are getting sick of it.

MacGyver said:

For all you "life begins at conception" people, let me clarify, the sperm is already alive, the egg is already alive, the two coming together just start off a cell replication process, that's it, there was no magic life-sparkhappening, both were already alive or else all you would have was a mess.

Another thing for the 'life begins at conception' people to think about is that if you define conception at the exact point when a sperm fertilizes an egg, then you'd have to prosecute a lot of females. Pregnancy doesn't begin at the moment the sperm joins with an egg, it begins when that sperm-and-egg combination implants in the uterine wall. And that doesn't always happen--sometimes the fertilized egg doesn't implant and is simply expelled from the woman's body during her normal menstrual cycle without the woman even knowing it.

How would you prosecute that 'natural abortion'?

poor-kids,

Seriously, you need an explanation of why one of the
lives should have tried to be saved? Did you even read this article? The
pregnancy was being miscarried. The fetus was not going to survive in any way.
Because of this law, they could not take the fetus in order to treat the woman
for the infection and give her a fighting chance at survival. So, instead of
the very real possibility of the mother’s life being able to be saved, they
both died. How is that “pro-life?” If she had made that choice on her own
volition, fine, but she didn’t. It was a decision made by others based on
religious beliefs she did not even share. How would you like it if the govt
forced actions onto you based on religious beliefs you don’t hold? Especially
when that could result in your death? That’s why we have a separation of church
and state in this country.

This is a life or death situation. I hold the Hospital Responsible because Hospital are suppose to be religion free. They must act accordingly with a life threatening situation.

Dear Community, thank you for (almost) shutting "poor kids" up. Some people fail to read the article and thus get the facts. Drs determined this poor woman was having a miscarriage, meaning the fetus was dying and there was no chance of saving the fetus. At that point, the only true moral and ethical thing to do was do everything to save the life of the mother. Despite constant pain and failing health, the Drs did nothing because the Hitler Youth guy who runs the Church values as yet not viable cells over living human beings. As a result not only did the fetus die, but so too did the potential mother, despite the fact that the Irish Supreme Court ruled that in just such a case Drs should save the mother's life. Being of Irish decent this saddens me no end. As a Pagan I believe all life is sacred, but acknowledge that a fetus that is dying should not take precedent over the mother's life if terminating the pregnancy will save her. Now because of small minded thinking two lives were lost, when only one would have been (and naturally at that as it was a miscarriage). A family now has to live with the loss of two members, a community lost a wonderful dentist and activist (and friend).

John Adams was sworn in as Pres using a book of laws so he could demonstrate how religion has no place in politics or law. (So much for the lie about the US being founded by Christians wanting a Christian nation). Perhaps it is time Ireland does the same and tells all religions they have no place in Irish law or politics, and thus saving the next woman from this fate. The US is slowly moving back to a country where religion belongs solely in houses of worship, despite the efforts of backwards thinking GOP members, but it'll take us a while. Luckily, if this had happened in the US the mother would have stood a better chance, as most States aren't as insane as others, and Drs would have been free to save her.

I pray that the "Heartbeat Law" is passed, not all doctors believe in performing abortions. If you read the heart beat law it allows for abortions in certain cases. All doctors will leave Ohio, that is some funny stuff right there, for someone to think the only reason a doctor practices medicine is to abort babies. If abortionist want to leave the State of Ohio then let them go.

Yet another woman dies for the sake of other people's narrow-minded self-righteous religious piety.

@poor-kids

You're misunderstanding why an abortion was important in this situation. Blood poisoning is caused by the biproducts of microorganisms that, quite frankly, should not be there. If the infection that caused the bacteria started with the baby, or in the uterus, removing the infected tissue would have increased her chances of survival, because it would have removed the bulk of the microorganisms that were causing the blood poisoning.

Babies don't have the greatest of immune systems. It's entirely probable that the baby was the start of the infection. So the doctors had two choices- remove the dying fetus, or don't. Removing the fetus would mean the fetus would die sooner and improve the mother's chances of survival. Not removing the fetus would mean that the fetus would die several days later.

Yes, doctors don't hasten death, but they also shouldn't refuse potentially life-saving treatment for religious reasons. This is tragic because doctors limited the extent they were willing to go to save her life for religious reasons and she died in pain. Religion should never dictate medical decisions. Period.

poor-kids said:

Half of you didn't even read (if you can read) the article anyway and for some strange reason think an abortion would have saved her life. you sick democrats think abortions are panaceas anyway so the facts be damned. kill one, save the other, but totally unable to say why?

Yes, she could have survived if the abortion had been performed.

Here's why: She was infected with EColi, which triggered her miscarriage. Had the doctors performed the abortion immediately when she first went to the hospital and they determined she was already miscarrying, she could then have been given the appropriate antibiotics and had a 85% chance of surviving.

I assume you'd like the full explanation, so here goes.

Doctors knew when she first got there that she was already miscarrying;

Halappanavar's husband, Praveen, said doctors at University Hospital Galway in western Ireland determined that his wife was miscarrying within hours of her hospitalization for severe pain on Oct. 21. He said over the next three days, doctors refused their requests for an abortion to combat her searing pain and fading health.

It was only after the fetus died that its remains were surgically removed. Within hours, Savita was placed under sedation in intensive care with blood poisoning, her husband said. By Oct. 27, her heart, kidneys and liver had stopped working, and she was pronounced dead the next day.

The blood poisoning was from E. coli, per this article from the Examiner:

Savita Halappanavar suffered another 2 1/2 days in agony before the fetal heartbeat stopped. By the time doctors removed the dead fetus, the woman was septic. She died in the intensive care unit on Oct. 28, 2012. An autopsy disclosed that she died from septicemia and an ESBL-producing E.coli strain, which is said to be harder to treat than MRSA.

Here's what I found on E. Coli:

Most people recover within a few days but pregnant women are at increased risk of developing serious complications such as hemolytic uremic syndrome (HUS) which may lead to kidney failure and death in extreme cases.

Dangers of E.Coli infection in pregnant women: Miscarriage, intrauterine growth retardation, preterm birth, low birth weight babies, pregnancy induced hypertension, preeclampsia, anemia, amnionitis.

Here's what HUS is:

Hemolytic-uremic syndrome (or haemolytic-uraemic syndrome), abbreviated HUS, is a disease characterized by hemolytic anemia (anemia caused by destruction of red blood cells), acute kidney failure (uremia), and a low platelet count (thrombocytopenia). Most cases are preceded by an episode of infectious, sometimes bloody, diarrhea caused by E. coli O157:H7, which is acquired as a foodborne illness or from a contaminated water supply. It is a medical emergency and carries a 5–10% mortality.

Here's the treatment:

The effect of antibiotics in E. coli O157:H7 colitis is controversial. Certain antibiotics may stimulate further verotoxin production and thereby increase the risk of HUS. However there is also tentative evidence that antibiotics like quinolones may decrease the risk of haemolytic uraemic syndrome.

Treatment is generally supportive, with dialysis as needed. Untreated HUS in adults, however, may progress to end-stage organ damage.

It's not safe to give quinolones to a pregnant woman:

There are safety concerns of fluoroquinolone use during pregnancy and, as a result, are contraindicated except for when no other safe alternative antibiotic exists.

Here's the survival rate;

With aggressive treatment, more than 90% survive the acute phase. About 9% may develop end stage renal disease. About one-third of persons with HUS have abnormal kidney function many years later, and a few require long-term dialysis. Another 8% of persons with HUS have other lifelong complications, such as high blood pressure, seizures, blindness, paralysis, and the effects of having part of their colon removed. The overall mortality rate from HUS is 5-15%.

Now, with all of that cited and referenced, yes, she could have survived if the abortion had been performed. She was infected with E. Coli, which triggered her miscarriage. Had the doctors performed the abortion immediately she could then have been given the antibiotics and had a 85-95% chance of surviving.

Oh, and there's a new strain of E. Coli that's been causing a lot of concern in Europe (though we don' know if this was the strain she was infected with):

E coli type 157:H7 is a virulent strain of E coli that has been the cause of several severe outbreaks of diarrhea. E coli O157:H7 bacteria are normally found in the intestines of cattle, poultry, and other animals. A new European strain of E coli known as Shiga toxin-producing E coli O104 (STEC O104) has been responsible for a recent deadly outbreak in Europe, particularly in Germany.

Amanda, good write up - but.... poor-kids seems like the type of person that doesn't pay attention to things like words, or facts, or reason....

But hopefully other posters will appreciate it.

I hope this woman did not die a completely unnecessary death in vain. The whole world surely knows the circumstances here, and Ireland looks like a government of fools.

The opposition to abortion has more to do with controlling women and depriving them of their rights than actual concern for the fetus or children in general. In the US the staunchest anti-abortion politicians are the same politicians that couldn't care less about the well-being of children once they are born.

As far as I'm concerned if you have no chance of knowing the joy of squeezing a watermelon sized-object out a sharpie sized canal you need to mind your own business.

"Poor kids" my a$ss! All these anti-abortion people presume to "speak for the poor aborted fetuses!"

Speaking as a former fetus myself--I can tell you I would be so pissed in this instance--that you did not abort me and save my mother's life! I mean I was going to die anyway! So now you killed us both!

Also, if my mother did not WANT me--and/or my father raped my mother--ABORT ME! I do NOT want to be born under such abusive circumstances. It's difficult enough to live when one is wanted--but if I was unwanted--ABORT ME PLEASE!

poorkids said:

there it is right up there and you guys can't even read it. the only thing you can hope to do is shout down someone else

Pot, meet kettle.

because you can't defend the indefensible.

The general tenor of your posts (as I understood them) seems to have been defending the doctors for the decision they made, which, given the information I dug up, would indeed be indefensible. Per your own words:

for some strange reason think an abortion would have saved her life. you sick democrats think abortions are panaceas anyway

An abortion had an 85% chance of saving her life and so not performing an abortion on a baby already being miscarried is indefensible, which you appear to be defending.

Oh, and by the way...

I currently have a cold, so I would definitely qualify myself as 'sick'. And while I do not vote, I do find my personal views are more closely aligned with the Democratic party.

So you are perfectly welcome to consider me a 'sick democrat'.

Poor Kids: "and the sad thing is you people have kids."

WTF??!! Oh whatagiveaway! You don't really give a @!$%# about kids, do you?--you just want to tell everyone else what to do!

I'll bet once the child is born (and even before and during) you don't want to provide the mother (and potential child) with medical care, huh? How about welfare afterwards if she's too poor to support this unwanted child? How about birth control BEFORE to prevent the unwanted pregnancy in the first place? Capital punishment--are you for or against? How about War? Is that ok?

Or are you only "pro life" until birth? Love the fetus and hate the child?

Speaking as a former fetus myself--I would WANT to be aborted if I was unwanted and/or there were other impossible circumstances surrounding my birth. Now why would you go against MY wishes?

So Poor kid

According to your logic are you saying that also anyone with Diabetes should be just allowed to die then?

please poor kids...its you who doesn't want to listen to reason or facts. God could show up and state that the woman should have been saved and you wouldn't listen.

For all you "life begins at conception" people, let me clarify, the sperm is already alive, the egg is already alive, the two coming together just start off a cell replication process, that's it, there was no magic life-spark happening, both were already alive or else all you would have was a mess. You can't even pick a human fetus out of a line-up of other animal fetuses until around 7 weeks, hell it will have a tail for another week or two after that.

This is an important point. The fetus is human. What it is NOT is a human being. Your little finger is also human. Cutting it off, while a horrendous act, is not murder.

While the fetus is in the mother, it is a part of the mother. She has absolute say on what happens to her body. At some point, the fetus turns into a baby, a human being. I am sure it's less than nine months after conception but it is certainly not in the early months. Where it is, I do not know, and it's a debate that we should be having.

Unfortunately, the nutjobs make it nearly impossible to have this debate because they are so loud in their absolutes.

The father stated in another article; "We are Hindu's the law should be changed for us."

When his family moved from India, they chose Ireland. Did he not know this was a Catholic country?

Did he expect another philosophy? He could have moved to England or ?

Ireland has its laws.

poorkids said:

Just a bunch of pro abortionistas trying to justify the taking of life. outrageous but unsurprising when you realize how unscrupulous these people are.

Let me rephrase that for you:

Just a bunch of Catholic doctors using religion to justify allowing a living person to die. Outrageous but unsurprising when you realize how unscrupulous these people are.

The baby was already dying, the mother's body was already miscarrying it when she was admitted to the hospital.

If they want to use God, then God himself knew that keeping the child was endangering the mother's health (keeping her from getting the antibiotics God created) and tried to reclaim the child unto Himself to spare the mother (hence the miscarriage already in progress when she was admitted to the hospital). The Catholic doctors who are supposed to help God do His work (saving lives, having compassion, having faith that it is all part of His Divine Plan) instead decided to try circumventing God's will and it ended up costing both mother and child their lives.

It's all in how you look at it.

(BTW--I'm not Catholic now, though I was raised as one. Just in case you're curious.)

Koobe said;

When his family moved from India, they chose Ireland. Did he not know this was a Catholic country?

Did he expect another philosophy? He could have moved to England or ?

Ireland has its laws.

Yes, they do, and this is the law handed down from their Supreme Court, per the article:

a 1992 Supreme Court ruling found it should be legalized for situations when the woman's life is at risk from continuing the pregnancy.

This is a clear-cut case of the mother's life at risk from continuing the pregnancy (see my post at 1.70 for the full medical explanation) and there should have been an exception made in this case.

Poorkids ... thank you for standing up for your beliefs in the face of all odds!

You are to be congratulated. Because of your beliefs, I'm absolutely positive that you are:

a. First in line to give blood. You wouldn't want another life as valuable as your own to be lostbecause of your inaction.

b. On the donor list for bone marrow, kidney and liver transplants. These can all be done while you are alive and, there are only slight risks to you (such as infections and death on the operating table). I'm sure you would not let those risks stand in the way ... as your life is no more valuable than anyone else.

If you have NOT done these things, as many people on this board you are denigrating have already done, then I suggest you look at a more substantial way of putting your beliefs into action than trolling this conversation.

poor kids - Just a bunch of pro abortionistas trying to justify the taking of life

NO ONE is "pro abortion"; unfortunately, sometimes it is necessary, and it's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS unless it's yours!

Why don't you get off this thread? You're annoying everybody.

poor-kids: Why don't you get off this thread? You're annoying everybody.

BTW, there is no such word as "irregardless". Your ignorance is showing - about a lot of things, actually...

LOL Tyler, he should have gotten kicked off, but then he won't read my great response! Of course he used the oldest dodge in the book "I won't dignify with a response" because he HAS no response.

Maybe I'm wrong here (I don't know the details of such things) but the woman died because of a countries religious beliefs. Anywhere else this would be considered a crime against humanity and the geneva convention (I could be wrong, so please politely correct me if I am). So how are people defending this? Is it because the country is predominately Catholic? What if this had been a more regime like country? Such as Iraq or Iran? Maybe even Syria? If this had been a Muslim issue people would be screaming for us to nuke the country and rape the kids, slit the throats of the women and hang the men from their genitalia.

How is it acceptable simply because it's Catholic?

Yeah, we heard that alright.. in America if your coffee is too hot you'll sue the coffee shop owner and if you trip cos you're drunk in a bar, you'll sue the bar owner!! America is money crazy! No such thing as common sense anymore over there!

Having said that, what happened with Savita and her husband is horrendous and unacceptable and somebody must be held accoutable for this senseless tragedy which could have been avoided.

It is a tragedy. Its also yet another reason the Catholic Church is losing adherents every year.

In the US, we also have to deal with the Baptists, Lutheran's, Presbyterians, evangelicals of multiple denominations and the just plain crazies.

As long as people invoke religion as there reason for doing something, you will never be able to convince them rationally. It is very unfortunate this young woman had to die. Somehow I doubt she will be the last.

Before the old "hot coffee" argument is raised, WATCH THE DOCUMENTARY, "Hot Coffee"! The coffee passed through the McDonald's drive-thru window was hot enough to melt skin and burn the muscles on the inside of that elderly woman's legs. Go see the pictures online... then justify how any company should be handing out a liquid to customers that's hot enough to require skin grafts. The media villified this woman but in light of the damage done, her lawsuit was justified (albeit the settlement was outlandish, but that was not her fault).

In the incident VaL,Ireland used as an example of frivolous lawsuits involving a woman who sued after being burned by coffee:

• * the victim was an elderly woman
• * she was being driven by a relative when the cup collapsed and spilled hot coffee in her lap
• * the temperature of the coffee was so hot that OSHA regulations require special safety equipment to handle liquid at that temperature (all the victim got was a flimsy disposable cup)
• * it was hot enough to cause instant 3rd degree burns to the elderly woman's inner thighs and groin melting away skin (photos of the injuries are horrific)
• * the victim required multiple surgeries and skin grafts costing many thousands of dollars and luckily survived a life threatening infection
• * the company serving this coffee knew about the problem from many previous burn incidents that didn't receive the same publicity
• * the victim attempted to settle out of court with the company for the medical costs -- the company chose to fight in court instead
• * the victim sued for mere thousands of dollars to cover medical bills and not for the $2.8 million awarded by the jury

Unfortunately, the victim was smeared by right-wing politicians who were promoting tort reform. They joked about this poor elderly woman's real injuries in order to make a case for corporations escaping responsibility for the harm they do to others. That's what 'tort' means in law -- an injury for which there can be some compensation.

So the next time you hear something about frivolous lawsuits and 'tort reform' just imagine those politicians insulting and slandering your grandmother -- making her painful injuries and suffering out to be a national joke.

Val in Ireland. You and your country have no room to talk. Your protestants and catholics have been warring much longer than any of America's issues.

Its always easy to point fingers when you dont have to look at your country's own failures

Dylan: For more despicable you could find it, the doctors had their hands tied. If they would have done the procedure, they would have been prosecuted criminaly for violating the Irish law. They couldn't do anything. If you want to lay blame, lay it on the Irish government, who did not fix the issue of abortion on risky conditions yet (from the time they were an English colony)...

Poor kids - Society makes judgements on life and death all the time. That decision depends on the society you live in. If no life is more important than another, then what is your rationale for letting the mother die and the fetus live if one has to die to let the other live? If you can justify that decision then your argument has no merit. "Poor kids," you apparently have no compunctions about letting "poor mothers" die.

First, I'm sure this lady didn't expect this to happen and unfortunately it was time sensitive, or I would ask if she was not able to get an abortion in a neighboring country.

Next, this board is obviously spammed with trolls. Especially the ones blaming men. Her husband is male or he couldn't impregnate her to begin with? He seemed very concerned about her.

I'm very sorry to her. I'm sorry to him, I hope somehow in the middle of this that he finds comfort in his healing.

Val in Ireland: The only reason that people sue in America is because there are many serious offenses that do not have criminal charges.

What should happen is that those in government who wrote laws that prevented this woman from having necessary medical treatment should be tried in criminal court for murder, and spend the rest of their lives in jail. That would be justice, wouldn't it? They have committed murder, you see.

Faith based governments leave no room for compassion or rational thought, now both mom and baby are dead..............

that is true, read the Republican platform about abortion,

For those of you commenting on the old "Hot Coffee" case; the real smoking gun for the jury was not the pictures of the woman's injuries but the letters from McDonald's corporate telling the franchise holder of the dangers the malfuntioning thermostat posed and ordering him to replace it immediately. Letters which proved to be several months old by the time of the incident. Several of his workers, most of whom were undocumented, had ben injured by the coffee and there was a stack of compliants from other customers.

Ohio is trying to put a "heartbeat" law on the books in the state; we will soon be just like Ireland.

Ohio is not a Republican state, but we have money poured into Ohio by Republican PACs for our local elections.

I am very worried that great doctors in institutions such as Cleveland Clinic and many other great hospitals in Ohio will simply leave Ohio. Is that the intention of the national Republican Party? Do they want to destroy Ohio's economy? I think the doctors will be careful to move to places that are NOT Republican after this.

Justiceforall: "The doctors had their hands tied." NOT.

We have forgotten the lessens of Nuremburg, the trial after World War II, where the people who had run the concentration camps said that they were "just following orders." That was considered NO EXCUSE, and they were convicted of mass murder, and executed.

Somebody in the hospital is responsible for the death of this woman under International Law. I think this case should be brought before the International Court in the Hague. Ireland has been putting women at risk of death. Obviously, if women go to other countries to have abortions (if they can afford to travel), the Irish law is not stopping women from having abortions. The Irish law is only stopping a woman who is having a septic miscarriage from having proper medical treatment; therefore, it is a law designed to murder women. At this time, there should be International sanctions against Ireland.

I wonder if this same thing ever happens to the ethnic Irish... was the law only applied to a woman of color?

And in the case of women who are prevented from travel: are women somehow not allowed freedom of movement in Ireland?

I, like many Americans, am party Celtic in my ethnic background. I was considering visiting Ireland in the next few years; this incident has made me completely uninterested in going. The country is just full of blarney.

Duland don't forget they have a similar program to the Obama health care. so there nothing to sue the government. Don't worry we're going it that direction.

,

It's a tool of Eugenics, and a painful death for the fetus too. If a woman feels shame about abortion, it's not coming from outside her, it's the guilt within her

Guilt over the death of an unborn baby would be a pretty terrible adaptive trait to have especially back when the infant/newborn death rate was in the 80% range - which was the case for all human societies until about 100 years ago.

Since its unlikely that evolution could be overiden in a mere century I'm going to say that most of the guilt a woman feels probably has to be enforced by moralists. Its very unlikely that these feelings arise naturally I would think.

Sorry but did I miss read the story? The woman was miscarrying, she was in incredible pain, she requested a termination, they denied her for 2-3 DAYS, she got septic, went into septic shock, died. Does not matter if the abortion would have prevented the sepsis, there was NO REASON to deny the woman's request for a termination.

So please correct me if I am wrong in what you are saying but it sounds like you are fine with Savita dying and the loss of two lives instead of just the one (for a baby that was already dying inside its mother) just so an abortion didnt occur.

I agree that there should be strict limitations on when an abortion can be performed but it sounds to me from the information in the article, that this was one of those situations that an abortion was warranted to save the mothers life. This is a mother that didnt want to give up the child but had accepted that the child was dying and it needed to be terminated. This is a mother that would have tried to have other children with her husband had she been given the chance. This was a mother that suffered a horrible death and begged to be helped but do to some ancient law that has not been readdressed to help people like her out, let her die. Now, her husband had to bury both and will no longer be able to see his wife again because neanderthals like the Irish govt and you think abortion is bad no matter what.

You are right Tara, all life has equality. That is of course, unless you are a person that is anti abortion, then it is only the babies life that has value, not the mothers. Good luck living with yourself and your archaic belief system. Two people are dead, not just one. And Savita wasnt given the chance to try and live and have more children someday. Sounds like a lose-lose to me.

@Travis...infant/maternal death rates are not abortion rates...It's far easier to handle the natural death of a baby or mother compared with the conscious, intentional ending of that life. I've had two friends come to me for advice about abortion. I did not condemn either of them or make them feel bad no matter what their decision...the one who went through with the abortion fell into a deep depression to the point of ignoring her other child. The one who didn't abort got to hold her dying son in her arms and say goodbye...she was able to cope better with that outcome because the child died naturally, not by her hand (choice).

@Dylan...you and I will never agree because you don't view a fetus as a living human being. As long as that baby's heart beats, there is a chance at life. If doctors aborted at the first sign of a problem in a pregnancy, there'd be many more abortions than there are now, and wrongfully so because many difficult pregnancies produce viable infants.

Tara has limited education of medicine, fetal development, or childbirth.

@ Tara - at 17 weeks there was no viability, she was having a misscarriage, the fetus was dying inside her, she was in agony, she requested a termination, her husband requested a termination, she had to endure agony for DAYS until the fetus's heart stopped. The doctors either killed this woman outright, or at the very least let her suffer agony for DAYS unnecessarily, because of a religion the woman does not practice.

@Tara

Please save your cheap, hypocritical sympathy for Savita.

You argued that we need to give the dying fetus a chance to live since it still has heartbeat. What about the mother? Anyone cared to give her a chance to live?

To me, it's more like that religious doctrinarians view women as reproductive machine.

You disgust me Tara from Virginia. Maybe there was no guarantee an abortion could have saved her, but now we'll never know because this country forced their religion down her throat. You are the type of person that reduces a woman to an incubator as soon as she has the misfortune to become pregnant. You sound like you'd rather they both be dead, than have Savita alive and the fetus dead. If the woman has decided to save her life, and especially if they know the fetus is dying, why didn't they support her decision for a termination? It's her body and her future child, so the decision is hers, not some morally righteous religion that she doesn't adhere to.

That being said, I wish they'd had the chance to just drive her to Northern Ireland, where abortion is legal AFAIK, since they are a part of the UK.

No Tara, it is not equal, sorry. A woman who has a life, a marriage and a family is more important than something killing her that is going to die anyway. Why kill her? Why does she deserve to die? Can you explain that to me?

You need to be punched in the face.

You have GOT to be kidding me...you are actually defending the hospital that let her die? 17 week old fetus was miscarrying..it was NOT viable..it was going to succumb! The tragedy is that a young woman was essentially begging the doctors to save her life and they said no. And by the way, the blood poisening that was the primary cause of her agony and death was DIRECTLY related to the ongoing miscarriage. It sickens me that anyone can try to justify the needless death of another person. Will you next defend the sexual mutilation of women in some developing nations (circumcision) because it is mandated by some interpretation of "the rules?" Will you also defend every criminal and terrorist on the planet and let them do whatever they please because it is part of a "plan?" It seems to me that you want the power to tell someone how to live and how to die. That doesn't sound like America to me, it sounds like Iran :-(

The woman is dead. She will have no opportunity to bear other children, as she would have if she'd had the abortion and the doctors were capable of working on her without worrying about the already-dying fetus. The negligence caused by this hospital has deprived a man of his wife, and has kept future children from entering this world.

A woman is NOT "just a vessel." She's got parents who love her, friends who care for her, a community that she touches... are you trying to tell me all those other lives on this planet, and her impact on them (what if her husband becomes so despondent that he commits suicide?) are simply negated over the already-failing life that was inside her? Protect the unborn at all costs, and to hell with her future and her future children? To hell with the feelings of her siblings, parents, friends and other family members?

Tara - Sorry, but a woman and her fetus is dead. Her husband, who loved this woman was NOT Catholic and wanted to save his wife. Her life was more important than the fetus, at this point, since she was in the process of miscarrying. An abortion may or may not have saved her life, but it is possible it could have. The fetus was already dying.

I am not pro-abortion, but I am pro-woman. Every woman should have control over her own body and that includes whether or not she wants to go through a pregnancy, difficult or not. You don't know every woman who has to make this decision, which is not an easy one. It really irks me that you can spout your "pro-life" nonsense when you have no interest in the fetus after it is born. You have no idea what all is involved in every single case and using religion as a justification is simply not acceptable.

I'm sure this woman and her husband were looking forward to having this baby. Unfortunately, in this case, a dying baby took precedence over a much loved woman and wife. Fear death? I believe everyone fears death, but this was a senseless death that may have been avoided.

Dead tissue in the uterus is a proven cause of sepsis. Every doctor knows this. The fetus wasn't dead yet, but the placenta was dying and being putrified by bacteria. She was not septic when she entered the hospital and they determined that her placenta was failing and there was nothing they could do to save the baby. That was Sunday. It wasn't until Wednesday that she had the abortion. By then, bacteria had had several days to grow and invade her bloodstream. You could start with one bacteria and have a trillion within 24 hours. There is no doubt whatsoever that this woman died because she didn't get a timely abortion. The doctors were forced to murder that poor woman. How can anyone consider that to be ethical?

You disgust me Tara from Virginia.

Ky, she's from the state that thinks vaginal probes for rape victims are just fine and dandy. Don't anticipate too much in the way of independent thought process there.

Only the truly heartless are "pro-abortion" in the sense of "abortion is right." Of course, it's not RIGHT, but it is NECESSARY at times such as this woman had to face. And the NECESSITY of an abortion, during an immediate and timely medical crisis where her care as a patient was being compromised by the fetus, should have been HER decision to make and not that of the government she happened to be living under... a government upholding Christian values to the point of Taliban-like control over its citizens, and one that her religion does not follow.

The intravaginal ultrasound was a device that American conservatives wanted to make a mandatory process in the abortion decision. All it takes is one look at the device--a long, thin, penis-shaped medical device inserted into the vagina--and you get the overall impression that the government is LITERALLY forcing itself into a woman's private place where have no right to be! And that is, essentially, rape.

What struck me as particularly hypocritical in America during this last election was the way in which ultra-conservative Republicans wailed on about Obama "death panels" but were basically lining up an anti-abortion system to create "abortion panels"--thus, taking the decision of an abortion out of the hands of a woman, her partner/husband and their family physician... and laying it before a panel of total strangers (who would work on their own schedule and get to cases... whenever) to determine whether or not she could get one.

abortion has been sensationalized as the answer to any pregnant woman's desire to be free from her mistakes, misfortunes, and woes.

The only place abortion has been sensationalized as such is on Fox News or other similar hyperconservative outlets to fuel the far-right rhetoric. You've been brainwashed.

BIRTH CONTROL is the answer to a woman's desire to be free from mistakes, misfortune, and woes. You sound like a prime candidate for such a measure.

Good God Tara. You sicken me. Almost as much as the story sickens me.

Pedestrian, I live in Virginia as well. I abhor what Tara wrote, I abhored the transvaginal probe decision and I am ashamed of my fellow Virginians who seem to think that a woman is ONLY good for incubating a fetus. I linked to another story about this young woman and her tragic death because THIS is what happens if those Evangelical CRAZIES get their wish.

I also am someone who nearly DIED delivering my now 6 year old son after a completely uneventful pregnancy. I am here (and my son as well) only because of an emergency c-section and I nearly lost my uterus due to it not firming up quickly enough. I can PERSONALLY attest that pregnancy and delivery are NOT 100% safe - even for someone who has pre-natal care from the 8th week to the 40th, has no complications and no risks during the pregnancy. Women STILL DIE from pregnancy or delivery complications in this country. The fact that some people seem to think that it's OK for this woman to lose her life as long as they didn't terminate the pregnancy until AFTER the placenta putrefied (think ROTTING MEAT) and the fetus's heart finally stopped beating really SICKENS me and makes me almost hope that those people go through a difficult pregnancy and either nearly lose their OWN life or watch their wife nearly lose her life. Maybe THEN they would understand that the WOMAN'S life has to come FIRST.

Tara from Virginia, I assume that you yourself would have been willing to die rather than to terminate a miscarriage. That's just stupid and ignorant. Words fail me.

Mark, that's not the issue--the issue is that Tara would force OTHER women to die rather than terminate a pregnancy. All because her beloved Rev'rend Whoziewhatzit wants it that way...

Tara, originally you tried to imply that it was perhaps a misdiagonsis or inconclusive situation. The woman was a dentist with certain medical background. You don't think she knew the what is going on? Your insistent attempt to redirect responsiblity is certainly disgusting...

You point the blame everything but at the miscarrage of responsiblity by hospitals and doctors... Sorry, if you have a conflict with your moral obligation vs your professional obligation, then you should state so prior to accepting the great burden of caring for the sick. Unless you don't believe the woman in question was not sick, then you missed the whole point!!!! Doctors / Hospital chose personal moral directives instead of oboligation of caring for the sick... So that would explain the Catholics not caring for the Muslims, the Jews, the Hindus, the Buddist.... F them all???? I find your belief F'ed up.... You care more about an unborn than the living? Remind us that when something happens to your loved ones!

Disgusting, and cowardly.

Ireland must be a terrible place. How can their government kill a woman on purpose? There should be sanctions against that country.

Elizabeth, there might be sanctions. They may even by kicked out of the European Union over this.

"As long as that baby's heart beats, there is a chance at life. If doctors aborted at the first sign of a problem in a pregnancy, there'd be many more abortions than there are now, and wrongfully so because many difficult pregnancies produce viable infants." (blockquote isn't working)

Tara..your logic is flawed somewhat. The doctors knew the miscarriage was occurring, identified it as a miscarriage in progress; they knew there was no saving the fetus. This wasn't a difficult pregnancy needing to be monitored. They even told the woman it would all be over in a few hours.

“The doctor told us the cervix was fully dilated, amniotic fluid was leaking and unfortunately the baby wouldn’t survive.” The doctor, he says, said it should be over in a few hours. There followed three days, he says, of the foetal heartbeat being checked several times a day."

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/1114/1224326575203.html

" Over the next three days doctors refused their requests for a termination of her fetus to combat her own surging pain and fading health."

Had there been any chance the fetus may have been saved, and going on the medical issues here, every opportunity and medical intervention would have been done, but, other than maybe pain meds for the mother, which were obviously not wokring, the doctors did NOTHING as they were just waiting for the fetal heartbeat to stop.

Cat, my apologies for tarring all Virginians with the ignorant brush. I'm glad you and your son are happy and healthy and I couldn't agree with you more regarding the hazards of pregnancy and childbirth.

Marton...if you noticed during the last election cycle most of the politicians (regardless of party) that are 100% pro-life (ie no exceptions) were NOT Catholic. And the law is the law in Ireland because no politician there has any motivation to enact one...they rely on a 150 year old law from England so why should they stick their neck out on a new one?

When will these overly religious countries be released from their Inquisitions and join the developed world?

And, when they've been released, maybe the US will eventually be free of religious tyranny, too.

This was clearly murder of Savita. The placenta was rotting.

I had to be hospitalized for sepsis once. It is horrible pain, worse than childbirth. It is easy to tell that there is sepsis in a blood test: the white count rises. Doctors immediately start antibiotics by I.V., and also they will try to cut out anything that might be rotting inside. Think "flesh-eating bacteria," because that is what it is. There are only a matter of hours to save a life. They cannot wait.

The doctors and nurses knew this would kill her. Law or no law, they knew they were murdering her every hour of every day she was not being treated. Antibiotics by themselves will not help in some places in the body, because the circulatory system does not go directly to some places; around women's reproductive organs it is even very hard for I.V. antibiotics to work.

Ohio is trying to put a "heartbeat" law into place, and I'm willing to bet that many of our great gynecologists will leave this state. Ireland already kills women; this case is probably only one of many.

The best thing for Ireland and the rest of the world is if International Sanctions against such killing are put in place.

poor-kids, do us ALL a favor and go crawl back into your hole. Nobody agrees with you except for religious crazies.

Yes, the mother's life is always more important than a fetus. This poor woman was in agony for days and subsequently died due to an ignorant idealism. When are people going to stop obsessing over embryos, zygotes and fetus'. Abortion has been around since the dawn of man and will NEVER be stopped. Come on, prolifers put your energy elsewhere...geez it makes me sick.

God or no god, how about common sense, know the laws of the country/countries before moving, if the country doesn't meet your so called moral standard.

But , hey in America females who don't bother with abortions throw their new borns in trash cans or out car windows in paper bags, dead or alive the parents don't care. Who we to judge others.

I used to live in Ireland, and had a friend go through a similar tragedy, the difference being she flew to London for a medical abortion. It saved her life and she went on to have another child a couple of years later. I loved Ireland, but this is all the influence of the Catholic Church, they still control too much. I feel so sad for this woman and her family.

DKJ: Really? You really think that they moved to Ireland expecting her to have a miscarriage?

chaos: You open up some very important theological questions. It is wrong to kill women just for ideology; killing women for ideology is nowhere in the Bible, which tells us to heal the sick, not throw them away.

But if some people think this woman was punished for Eve's sin, and that Jesus Christ did not take on our sins and forgive Adam and Eve at His Resurrection, that would make this woman, Savita, a Christian; and all those who let her die and agree that she should have died are not Christian because they do not believe in the remission of sins that Jesus gave us by His Cross. In a nutshell: Savita gets to go to heaven, and those who use the misnomer "pro-life" to kill women do not get to go to heaven.

None of these "pro-lifers" care what happens to a baby after it is born. They legislate against health care. The Greek word "hypocrite" means a stage actor that pretends to think the opposite of what they really think, and hypocrite fits these "pro-lifers" to a tee. It is for this reason that early Christians were not allowed to put on the personna (mask) of an actor; because they were trying to be sincere.

I am pro-choice because I want to be sincerely Christian, and not hypocritical. I will not attend a church any longer that promotes hypocrisy; they can kiss my tithe goodbye.

Ummm--Grampa--where ya been? Cause it happens here in the U.S. They're called Catholic Hospitals. Time for all you righties to start edumatin' yourselves and turn off Fox News. Look up St. Joseph's Hosp in Phoenix and Bishop Olmsted. Thankfully, the woman survived; but a nun was excommunicated over it.

Curious "wyoming" do you live in wyoming or Ireland?

"This is an Irish problem and an Irish responsibility."

She was a human being, so therefore this is a HUMAN problem and a HUMAN responsibility.

So STFU.

When I was expecting our first child, 29+ years ago, my husband told me there was no way he would ever take me to a Catholic hospital. He valued my life more. Catholic hospitals will save the baby over the mother every time.

Wyoming:

I agree it is an Irish problem. Meanwhile back at your ranch, abortion is legal, and thank God, (yes one can be spiritual and liberal), that there are enough liberals in this Country to keep your white ass in check.

Tess Friday, it's interesting you mention this St. Joseph's Hospital situation. I wonder if the nun's dispute with the Catholic church are based on situations like this.

Rubberduck: You should read about it. Yes, a nun who was in charge of care saved a woman's life in a similar situation, and she was thrown out of the church for it, which also meant out of her order, out of her house, out of her job...

My mother's Catholic gynecologist refused to give her a hysterectomy even though she was hemorrhaging from fibroid tumors in her uterus and was severely anemic because of it. Because that would be birth control. She found a new doctor.

Elizabeth-1372999, I did read about it. But what I meant to reference is that the association of nuns (NCAN) had a beef with the vatican. I wonder if that particular situation may have contributed to it.

Read: American Nuns Vow to Fight Vatican Criticism - NYT

I worry very much about what is going to happen in Ohio, and I agree. My great-grandchildren are at risk, and because I am a woman, I worry about generations to come. I don't know why men are not worrying about their daughters, granddaughters, and great granddaughters; or do they think that only their sons are part of their families?

People in the U.S. are upset about this case because so many states in the U.S. are writing laws that endanger women's lives; if we don't stop it now, many women will die.

Ireland does not tax corporations, but that isn't the only reason their country is in economic hard times. I think the rest of Europe knows about attitudes towards women, and just won't do business with them. Notice which European countries have bad economies right now: Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, and Spain, and notice the attitudes towards women in those countries. They can all think about the real reason they face austerity measures.

Just to be clear, Elizabeth, I am a man without children of any sex and I worry for future generations as well. Not all men are like this.

Plus, you must realize that there are plenty of women on the side of those men you denounce.

It's not about which sex you are, it's about being humane.

Elizabeth-1372999, That's a stretch to say that all those countries have economic problems because they have poor attitudes towards women and women's rights. It is also doubtful that trading between companies or nations are remotely guided by any sense of humanist principles or morality. By making these grand statements, you are lumping a whale in a shopping cart. I'm not an economist, but I'm sure you can pick any one and they can explain to you in detail the individual reasons behind the failing economies. Don't get me wrong, I'm all against these religious freaks and Ireland is sketchy, but I just want to point out this false line of logic.

Not even an option at 17 weeks. Also not your choice to make for another woman.

Exactly Dylan. And Karen--I would agree that I would give my life for my child (who is now 11); however, that is my choice to make and certainly not my right to make it for a woman with an 11- or 12-wk pregnancy, miscarrying, and whose life is in jeopardy.

The child had NO CHANCE of survival. so please spare us your ill thought out platitudes! There was no "choice" here at all, other than the medical "professionals'' choice to let this woman die needlessly.

@Karen - the unborn child you'll have twenty years from now is threatened - so you'd better off yourself right now to protect it.

(hee hee - let's see if the dumb ass will do it?)

Okay dummy, so you'd give your life for something that wouldn't even live? Then you would just be dumb.

Karen1231961 You're really just a stupid piece of cat crap. Time to get a grip on reality.

In history, the popes did NOTHING for Ireland. Look it up: Pope Adrian Breakespeare gave Ireland to England in 1172 (the "Donation"). The English, before they were Protestant, barred any Irish from attending their own seminaries. When the English became Protestant, the papacy did nothing to defend Ireland from its misfortunes. All during those 800 years, the papacy went to war for many reasons, but never to defend Ireland. Irish monasteries in Europe were taken away in the Medieval times too. Look that up. St. Patrick was given a Pallium that made him partly independent, and ever since that time, the Romans have taken back the independence and crushed the Irish, but the Irish only respond with loyalty to Rome. Rome claims that the term "ultramontane" means "over the mountains," i.e., churches that were beyond the mountains in northern Italy being part of the Roman church, but it can be applied also to "ultra-montanist," legalistic only. Unfortunately, the more history is known, the worse it looks.

In Ohio the Republicans in the state house want a "heartbeat" law just like Ireland's. This fight isn't over, unfortunately.

BS! Ask any gynecologist what the inevitable consequences of a prolonged miscarriage is! As a miscarriage begins, circulation to the placenta is disrupted. IN some instances enough blood flow remains to sustain the fetus for a period of time, but tissues that are now deprived of blood supply begin to deteriorate. In other words, they ROT inside the woman, much like a gangrenous limb. NO ONE with any real medical knowledge would either be surprised by these consequences nor deny the cause - the refusal to abort a NON VIABLE fetus at the expense of an innocent woman's life! Funny how some Christians consider pagans the "savages" ...

Bob, I accidently gave you thumbs up. That was a mistake. You are an idiot. You are not a woman, so you obviously know nothing about blood poisoning from miscarriage. It happend to my sister. She was devastated. But you know what? We ALL would rather have my sister alive, who has been a part of our family for 25 years, than to have her die.

I can not imagine laying in a hospital bed when there are life saving measures available and the doctors refuse to utilize it.That to me is unacceptable and barbaric.

It's interesting that you people know more about this than the doctors involved.

Oh, the doctors knew the consequences. They were simply following Church based orders instead of utilizing their medical educations. Which makes them even more negligent in the completely unnecessary death of this young woman.

My guess is that the doctors were agonizing over their decisions in this, knowing to do what was best for Savita would be risking losing their medical licenses or jail time.

DOCJT: They were not following the Christian dogma, they were following the Irish law, who prohibits a doctor from performing an abortion. If they would have done the procedure, they would have been held criminaly liable. What needs to change is the law.

@ Bob- Any idiot knows blood poisoning kills a person and immediate treatment is neccessary to try to save the person's life. After all, they ARE medical professionals (or are supposed to be). So YES, they KNEW they were KILLING the mother by not removing the fetus and the placenta, which was breaking off and entering her blood stream, causing the blood infection. They KNEW this. How would you feel if you watched yourself DIE while your spouse pleaded for your life? How would you like to lose a daughter or a sister or a mother or your wife because of the doctors' cruelty because of THEIR PERSONAL religious beliefs? How would you like to die while surrounded by so-called medical professionals whose JOB is to save your life? She was laying right there in front of them and they forced her to suffer until she ultimately died because they did not do their jobs. They make me f***ing sick. And if you agree with them, you make me sick too.

bob: The (already astronomical) level of desperation has accelerated to new levels since last Tuesday. Perhaps those disappointed could lobby God to smite the "Libs", or 'infidels' as they are known in other cultures. Those that have acquired rational, critical thinking skills are unlikely to give up logic for dogma.

The Law? International Law totally is beyond a local, state, or national law. If you don't believe that, look up the Nurenburg trails after World War II. Those who were in charge of the death camps said they were only following orders, but that was no excuse, and they were found guilty of murder.

These doctors murdered this woman. That is the law. If they had presented all the circumstances to their country after saving her life, they either would have been 1. exonerated, or 2. found guilty of breaking the law. And they could have appealed that guilty verdict, because it would have saved a woman's life, and they might have been able to take it to International court. As it is, these doctors might face severe penalties or long jail time in International court.

And I don't think that Ireland is going to have much help with their economic woes from the rest of Europe after this.

SDN: I don't have to "lobby God." I have simply stopped giving money to my church.

And I do say my prayers, but I believe, unlike you, that Jesus Christ gave His life on the Cross for the remission of sins, not that the women of this world have to be crucified for your sins.

@CourageLovePeaceLive....

Apparently not 'any idiot'. There seem to be plenty on this vine that can't grasp that simple concept.

Sad.

I think the rational populace here in the US, and elsewhere, should much more actively call out those in government that simply cannot or will not "leave their bibles at the door". They are, of course, free to pursue their religion as they see fit. They are not free to inject these beliefs into our legal system. Why this is still an issue baffles me. I'm an agnostic - I can neither prove, nor disprove, the existence of a "Supreme Entity". I don't believe in ghosts, and simply won't delude myself.

Lib, it was not religious doctrine. It was the actual law in Ireland who prohibits abortions of any kind. That the law needs to be changed because it takes a narrow interpretation on abortion (despite the Supreme Court decision in Ireland justifying its use in cases of jeopardy to the mother). As long as the law is not passed, the doctors will continue with their hands tied. Nobody wants to go to jail for saving a life at the expense of another.

But justiceforall, why did they have the law passed, if it wasn't for religious doctrine? In this case, there is little difference.

Justice-for-all: I didn't know that the Supreme Court in Ireland had already decided that abortion to save a mother was justified. Then it is even more clear: these doctors murdered Savita. It wasn't law if the Supreme Court had already thrown out the law. It was murder most foul.

Why should anybody be forced to voice their opinion.This is the USA and they ahve their beliefs and freedom of speech or not the same as anybody else.This is an issue in Ireland.

just a cleaning lady- I'm curious as well. They hate women so much and love to see them suffer, I would love to hear what they have to say on the issue they know nothing about.

I would be bored to tears. We live in a society where hypocrisy has become a profession.

I don't want to hear what Ryan, Akin, Mourdoch, and Walsh have to say. In fact, I wish they would STFU and stop saying things that have no moral, scientific, or religious value.

Jesus Christ died for my sins, not these Republicans. And women should not be crucified for the sins of a country. And Catholic hospitals should be closed.

This did not happen in America and a woman's right to choose did not cause the GOP to lose this election. When the ACA takes place we'll see how long people wait for non elective surgeries and doctors appointments.

When the ACA takes place we'll see how long people wait for non elective surgeries and doctors appointments.

If you will take a moment or two to think about this, using a foundation of supply and demand to guide your thinking, you will see why this could be true, but why it, also, at the same time, shows that our healthcare system is undergoing a much needed change.

This did not happen in America and a woman's right to choose did not cause the GOP to lose this election.

No? Comments by candidates Akin and Mourdock, both Republicans whose comments were not repudiated by Romney and the party leadership, reminded Americans of the radical anti-women positions of the party. Did the party's anti-abortion platform cause it to lose? By itself, perhaps not. But, it certainly didn't help the party, either.

Hey cleaning lady, it did wonders for Akin! Leading by double digits until he opened his piehole about "legitimate rape"...and the rest is history...

jacl: If you look at the voting trends, you'll find that the women's vote was instrumental in sending the GOP packing. Just the facts. And if I may, I suggest that being a 'cleaning lady' is equally as important as any other profession. The 'just a' is undeserved.

Hey, cleaning lady,

You do realize that people will have to wait longer because there will be more people able to seek medical care without resorting to emergency rooms right? Or do you just not want the peasants getting preventative care?

A four-months-pregnant woman who is bleeding and having extreme cramping cannot "hop" anywhere. Changing hospitals probably wouldn't have worked, these poor parents needed to change countries. Ireland should come with one of those "black box" hazard-to-your-health warnings for expectant parents.

A four-months-pregnant woman who is bleeding and having extreme cramping cannot "hop" anywhere.

Exactly. And, this fact exposes the fallacy of allowing US states to make individual decisions about the legality of abortion. A dying woman in, say, Kansas can't be expected to hop a plane to NY in order to get her life-saving abortion.

Well, Barry, the RWNJs have the solution for that--just make abortion a criminal offense with no exceptions everywhere in the US...

Why didn't I think of that, Conjuring. Because, as well all know, no woman EVER got an abortion before it was safe and legal.

My apologies, as I understood it, she was having complications in the time leading up to the actual day of this event. If this was sudden then you are correct and that would not be a workable solution. At any rate religion yet again rears its ugly head and proves why it doesn't really have a place in the 21st century, even if so many still cling to it.

Most people would agree that if a woman kills her 1 year old child by ripping it apart, even if she believes it is to save her own life, she is a child murderer, the most heinous of criminals.

The same should apply if the child is 17 weeks old. Child murder is always wrong.

JohnCarter, the baby/fetus was already dying. The doctors had determined she was miscarrying.

John Carter, you sorry SOB, "ripping it apart" when the child's whole life is unraveling inside of the mother and killing her too? You are either a troll or the stupidest man on the planet. Either way, I actually feel sorry for you because you use the Bible to defend yourself as a good Christian and then turn around and prove that God does make mistakes, or you wouldn't exist. Must suck to be you.

God? Some fantasy Sky Creature? Who the hell is stupid enough to believe such a fairy tale? Child murder has nothing to do with some mythical "god" fantasy of primitive middle eastern savages.

Sure John...so you are going to tell a living, breathing and aware human being, the mother, as well as her husband and possibly her already living, breathing and aware children "so sorry but we can't terminate the pregnancy to save your life so you better say your goodbyes now."

In this case especially the doctors identified the woman was miscarrying, that the fetus had no hope of surviving, (not only the miscarriage but also the fact it was only 17 weeks into gestation so not "viable" outside the womb) but left her for three days in agony and already beginning to suffer the effects of the blood poisoning. Blood poisoning can be reveresed if it is treated at the first signs..not always suceessful but there is a much better chance. She was IN a hospital with doctors knowing she was miscarrying and did nothing to try and treat the infection they knew she would have..they could have started antibiotics but I think those stronger antibiotics could also have hastened the death of the fetus so they didn't bother.

Ever heard of humanity, compassion? We protest about torture...what do you think this woman, and her husband for that matter, were going through, physically, mentally and emotionally....yet by your statement all that doesn't matter?

JohnCarter, the baby/fetus was already dying. The doctors had determined she was miscarrying.

And, let's not forget that when the mother died, the fetus was going to die anyway. Great principle here ... let's kill two instead of one!

Some of you must not have read the original article.

1. She was miscarrying and vomiting, and couldn't be moved.

2. The "baby" was dying, and at 17 weeks couldn't survive outside the womb. The placenta was already dead and putrifying in the mother's body. There was no way the baby was going to survive in any case, and no way the mother would survive waiting a few days.

3. The mother died, proving that she, a healthy young woman who might have been able to have other children, couldn't survive a case of sepsis that was not treated for days after she was admitted to the hospital.

4. If you read the article and you were not able to glean these facts, then you have a serious attention deficit.

John,

If a woman wants to "kill her baby" when it is INSIDE of her and CAN"T survive outside of her, then it is none of your damn business what she decides to do. What happens inside of her body is her business and outside your jurisdiction.