The Arab solution is to exterminate the Jewish state, period. The duplicity on this issue nausiates me. They attempted it in 1947 and lost and have never given up.

End of the story.

tomcoz

The Jews stole this land from the rightful owners. One would think that the state of Israel would have a bit of human understanding after having been treated so badly themselves. But no, they have to keep land won in a war when giving back after 1967 could have ended it. Or, they could just stop continuing the theft through the building of settlements.

Now, poor Rick is trying to be reasonable about the 1967 borders, which I admit is a lot more reasonable than I feel about all of this, but whatever. He is being nice and you reply with one-sided IT'S ALL THEIR FAULT garbage.

Is it any wonder to you, really, that a great deal of the world no longer has any pity for Zionists?

This will end when Israel goes back to 1967 and admits that taking this land in the first place was maybe not the most moral and compassionate way to go about protecting themselves.

The Jewish stole NOTHING.

They won the land in war and KEPT it.

Something America should learn.

Israel had to accomplish the 6 day war or face oblivion then.

Jordan, Eqypt, and Hammas were ready to attack.

Israel did not wait.

They were smart.

Screw what the world thinks.

If you start a war and lose, you lose it all.

There is not blowing crap up and re-building it like Americans do.

They took what they won.

As they should have.

JSF49

"The Jews stole this land from the rightful owners."

Ad nausea, ad nausea. What a bunch of BS! If they stole the land from the rightful owners who in turn stole it from the previous owners, who in turn stole it from the previous owners and so on for the last several thousand years, who is right and who is wrong? What it boils down to is possession is 9/10's of the law!

The Enemies of Israel have never changed their position.

The Hamas Charter openly declares that Israel has no right to exist in any form and that killing Jews is glorified.

The tiny sliver of land that is Israel, compared to the vast, overwhelming land and wealth that is the Arab/Iranian coalition to destroy Israel.

Save Jordan and Egypt.

For now.

.

JFS49, is there no wonder why your skewed ideas get no support on this thread?

Jf "Palestinians" were a nomadic people that lived in a lot of different areas of the middle east. Hebrews were not nomadic, lived in what is now Israel for thousands of years. There wasn't even a title of "Palestinian" until the 1950's. Muslims outnumbered the jews and stole their land and Jews stole it back and kicked them out. Its been bloody and terrible on both sides.

I will say that Israel has been harsh on the "Palestinians" several times going too far. This time Palestine sent more than 100 rockets into Israel before Israel retaliated. Egypt ( a friend of Palestine now) called for a cease fire on Thursday and Hama/Palestine broke it. I think in this case Israel has a right to defend herself. The U.S would certainly do the same. Palestinians elected Hamas --a known terrorist group--to lead their country. What did they expect?

I am more curious as to why Palestine is picking a fight now? Is Iran behind this? What exactly do they hope to prove. They are vastly out gunned and outnumbered. Ideas?

I thought the elephant in the room was the seemingly never ending rockets and mortars coming out of Gaza. When do Gazan's have to take responsibility for their own actions (ie: electing a terrorist group to power which continually attacks a civilian population)?

I thought the elephant was the fact that the so-called Israeli's left this land thousands of years ago and that it actually belongs to people who stayed there all that time.

If you leave your land for a while, can I have it.

The "elephant is the room" is the fact that after WWII, the UN assigned land to both Jews and "Palestinians". The Palestinians cast their lot with the surrounding Arab states who had asked them to step aside while the combined forces of those several states eradicated Israel. When Israel won that war, the Palestinians became the losing side. Considering that the Arab states put the Palestinians in the position of being on the losing side, one would think they would donate a little land and humanitarian aid to help them create a state of their own. But the other "elephant in the room" is that none of the other Arab states even like the Palestinians. They are treated like the gypsies of Europe, marginalized and without a country, respect, support, etc. The Arab states just use them as pawns against Israel, to fight a war of attrition on their behalf. So, if the Palestinians had simply agreed to the terms that established two states - Jewish and "Palestinian", they would be celebrating almost 70 years of statehood. No amount of anti-semetic talking points will change the fact that the Palestinians were GIVEN a country, and threw it away on a gamble.

to Independent Voter-- Thank you for your post.

The Palestinians are so exploited by the Arab states. It is so sad. And sadder that they, and so many peoples of other countries haven't understood how complex this problem really is.

The intent is to rid of Israel. There is anti-semitism. Racism... fear, fear, fear... And it goes on, larger and larger. Therefore, countries and peoples need a scapegoat to justify such awful deep-rooted beliefs and behaviors. (An awful reminder to the hate going on in our post-election. Really sad.) But this is one aspect.

You can be sure the few (rich) leaders of all these large Arab nations want the people to remain focused on hate for Israel rather than have those people focus on anything productive and life-enhancing for themselves. And especially to prevent the threat of Arab people rising up against the few leaders to create any democracy and fair share to higher income. Imagine if the Palestinians/Arab people could learn the truth behind how they are controlled, exploited and kept poor? Keep the people controlled via biased education and no access to internet/world tv. (internet/tv may be a new limited phenomena to some parts just recently. Most populations there didn't have this access even in last decade of 9/11.) So how do you counteract years and generations of controlled, learned hate.?

I recall the Oslo Accord included creating education. Forget the adults, let's start with the youth and correct their education about each others' countries and peoples, and remove the hate teaching. Unfortunately, I understand this never occurred. Why give up the old textbooks?.

On another note, I cannot believe how news writers and posters here mention groups called Hamas, Hezbollah and the others as if they are political parties. We are talking pure terrorist organizations. Non-stop rockets for years, suicide murderers, to kill and destroy Israelis. (and Americans, and other democracies) That is their mission. Is there negotiation with one-missioned minds?. Oh yeah, and these terrorists base themselves right in civilian areas/neighborhoods. How cowardly and exploitive is that? Remember those old photos of past of the child held in front of rifle-bearing fighter?. Same thing.

left the land or taken as prisoners of war?

But those are small poorly engineered missles so they don't count.

Even a small poorly engineered missile will kill if they hit someone. The whole idea people are saying is if Hamas would stop shielding like cowards behind women and children while firing rockets at Israel there would not be a problem. Look at the West Bank and see how they are living. There are no attacks against Israel so they are not being attacked back. This solution is so simple even a child could solve it, stop firing missiles.

There is and has never been a state of Palestine. For them to have a state they were given two requirements, accept the Country of Israel and denounce violence and they refused to do either one.

They could not even make peace with their partners Fatah and threw them out of Gaza. They have a simple path to peace they just refuse to take it and choose to keep their people in poverty except of course the leaders who live in opulence.

Golberg--have you even looked at a map lately. In the vast land of muslim led nations there is a tiny island of Israel. Please google "map of middle east" and then revisit your comment.

Golberg,

Maybe you have been missing history for the last 60 years. Arab countries have again and again attacked Israel with the intention of destroying them. Nuclear weapons are a great deterrent for these idiots. The moral is that Israel has had them for many years and not one has been used, Iran gets one and I do not think it will take more then a year to find itself to one of the Hamas terrorist and they will use it. So what motivation does Israel have to cooperate with the UN which has been openly anti-Israel for the last 50 years. I do not think the U.S. should fund them or have anything to do with the U.N., and Israel will never allow themselves to be dictated by a organization that is run by many of its enemies.

Daniel,

This is no longer a sparsely populated world and the old rules cannot apply if we are to avoid war. The rules have to change. We are no longer barbarians, or at least we claim not to be. This means that "we keep the land if they started the fight" no longer makes sense. No only is that moral indefensible, but it is not at all practical, even from the point of view of the "winner."

OK, for the sake of argument I'll say Israel had the right to defend itself in 1967. Does that really mean they should have kept the land? After taking so much of what these Palestinians had previously owned? After Palestinians, real people mind you, had been forced to pay the price for German insanity in WWII?

By that reasoning, USA should have kept Germany, France, Africa, China, Japan, and so on. But we did the right thing (for once) and, instead of acting like an empire, we built those countries back up and made real democracies out of most of them. This is what an honorable civilization does. This is what a sensible, practical country does. This is what Israel could have done, but chose not to.

.

Should we give California back to Mexico too?

Haven't we? (Sorry couldn't resist.)

My point is that we are too jammed together on this earth not learn something. Learn or perish. If we want to survive as a species, we must act in new ways. This includes white Americans acting with more empathy towards those we have harmed in the past. This includes countries having learned from the failed experiment called Empires that we cannot go to war, keep everything, and act like it was still 1400. Israel had a chance to show this evolved understanding of human history and failed.

In 1947 the Palestinians backed the 'wrong' horse. Those who had not already sold their land to the highest bidder - probably a Jewish settler - stepped to one side believing the propaganda from the surrounding Arab armies that they were going to push every Jewish settler into the sea. Those who stayed 'put' did not lose their land, those who believed the propaganda forfeited it. There is a difference between loss by theft and loss by forfeit. These refugees by forfeit should have been resettled over sixty years ago. But the neighboring Arab states found it to their advantage to use them as pawns. Sixty years later they are still pawns and believing their own anti-Semitic propaganda.

jsf49 who do whites owe empathy too and for what?

Can you people please learn some history. The land was under Ottoman control for hundreds of years and when they sided with Germany in WWI the land went to Britain and France. The Balfour Declaration drafted in the 1920's called for two states but in 1947 the Palestinians refused their own country.

I have a question for the Palestinian supporters, why was a Palestinian country never requested while under the control of the Ottoman Empire and why was a Palestinian country never requested when the land was under control of Egypt and Jordan from 1948 until 1967?

30 minutes later and still no answer to my question above.

First, because there are no "Palestinians".

And yes they (the rogue arabs) were offered a place in the region.

They even signed the partition agreement, but a few (Hammas) decided it was not enough.

Then they started wars.

And got serious ass kicked.

The so called "Palestinians" were never a people.

They were offshoots of arabs who lived PEACEFULLY with the Jews until some idiot thought the Jews were

getting more power.

Then they "named" themselves.

There is NO Palestine.

There is your answer Jerry.

Viewer

Thank you for your response

Very welcome Jerry.

I do read history.

Some only listen to propaganda.

Oh, and in case anyone wants to know, I am NOT Jewish.

I just can't stand to see a people who only want peace live in threat.

I would do the same as they have.

Fight tooth and nail.

Dana,

read a history book?

Native Americans (we essentially forcefully conquered them and forced them into reservations), Blacks (slavery), Asians (for the WWII interment camps) for starters. There are several more. Some of the White citizens in America have been very abusive to minorities over the centuries we have existed as a country and still are in some respects.

First off your so called "white Americans" have nothing to do with me just because I appear to be white (really a reddish white color) doesn't mean I have anything to do with what happened in the past. Did I have a hand in it? Did I have a vote? NO I live in the present and those wronged people (minus the
native Americans) really need to realize I being a "white American" have never done anything to them I have no reason to apologize. Was it bad what happened to them? Absolutely and I would have been against it if I were around but my entire generation and the following generations weren't. Let it go I am
not in the shadows holding you down, conspiring to sabotage everything you do, I am too busy working trying to feed my family and giving them a better life. No offense but I think certain groups really one in particular need to take a lesson or start apologizing for their current behavior. They can either acknowledge what happened was indeed horrible, most whites you see had nothing to do with
it if they were even here or their ancestors were even here and move on, work hard and build a better life for their kids, or they can keep living the life where clearly it is everyone else fault that though they live in one of the greatest countries in the world they are poor no one sees how brilliant and kind they are through the drugs, violence, slang and hate of the government and the white man (until that check comes in let me guess you are entitled to generation welfare do to the things that happened to a distant relative). This is a ridiculous idea that any "white American" needs to follow your absurd suggestion what we all need is to grow up realize we all live in the same place acknowledge the past and strive for the bright future that is possible.

Now sorry about that tangent, but it can also be applied to the plight of the Palestinians. As someone pointed out you elected a terrorist organization to run your government who stated charter says Israel does not exist and has no right to and must be destroyed... not the brightest idea or any fashion to get peace. So yes when Israel was created the winners of the first and second world war got together set out countries in the middle east and heavens no gave the Jewish people a sliver to live on. I will not say there were not wrongs done on both sides in the past or when the state of Israel was conceived but it happened.
When Israel was created they wanted to create a country just for any displaced peoples who did not want to live in Israel, you threw a tantrum and said no I want it all. The mighty Arab alliance attacked Israel prevailed every time and ended up taking over land from the attackers, it happens I honestly don't see
why the beaten aggressor should keep any lands lost after all the land came from the ottoman empire and no one has an issue with them losing it all... anyways fast forward to present time you live in a sliver of the sliver, your brothers that did not reject Israel live good lives in Israel and have businesses, a
voice in government and all the comforts of the first world. Your brothers in the west banks didn't elect a terrorist group with the stated goal of destroying Israel to lead them, stopped the violence and are not being bombed and can now work towards a better life. You fire missiles indiscriminately into civilian population centers again and again even when supposedly working towards peace, and then have the gall to cry foul when Israel reacts and drops tactical strikes on leaders of your hostile groups, weapons caches and firing locations all of which you guard by putting your families there knowing they may well die but that will only further your cause. You spend what money you can generate to further stockpile weapons and fighters to attack the people that did not even retaliate this time until you fired 100 rockets at them, the same place that offered you your own state in the lands that were captured from the Arab countries that won't except you and still you think it is a good idea to fire rockets at the country you and your allies have never been victorious over. All because of religion? the history of the land? the past blood feud?
Just to be clear it is not the Israelis holding you down but yourselves and the self destructive path you have chosen over and over again. Or the "makes sense" option of excepting that it’s not great what happened in the past but the actions taken by both sides have lead here and you can get serious acknowledge the past work for peace and build a new future with that peace, or continue
with your current mindset and assure your people your families never have a better future and only know the constant attacking of your neighbor and their retaliations to defend their peaceful developed homeland. Again nowhere in this did I say any side of either argument was not in the wrong at point nor did I
say no horrible atrocities have been committed by all sides, simply that we are here now we have a choice and we can see those who chose to live now and build towards a better future have proven it is possible here and there. I support Israel given the facts.

No! Shame on YOU, for trying to shame/bully/silence anyone for finally opening our eyes. I am sick and tired of paying for the petulence and self-indulgence of Israel and its cohorts such as you. We have given all the blood and treasure we are going to give in order for Israel to be "free" to continue to run an Apertheid regime. Our country is nearly bankrupt because of our one-sided "friendship" with Israel. Enough is enough.

You Know It, and I know it. Lots of Americans have been led to believe there was an indiginous "Palestinean Population", including no Hebrew Israelis,and like the red Indians got displaced by the UN and Britian(who just wanted out of this area they had occupied.) The area was a highway filled with all kinds of people, occupied for many years..to keep out evryone else who wanted to occupy like the Ottomans, Egypt, Syria, etc.) many times with more mixing.

Whoever ends up there cannot be of the mind that Israel must be destroyed and all Jews Killed. The world can't afford to have countries of assassigns. Too much has change from the old days. Israel doesn't want to kill all Muslims. This extreme view of some Muslims just makes them Wrong. If thats the way they are....they cannot stay in that area, no matter who thinks thay hold a "land deed". Countries of assassigns don't fit in the world today.

Israel has tried SEVERAL times to give back land it LEGITIMATELY won.

In return for peace.

All you people who constantly bash Israel are simply ignorant of history.

rober34...you must be a very rich man with such insight you must be making a killing in the stock market. ..snicker snicker..

Don't let the sky whack ya in da head.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Yes, Ayman obviously has an agenda of distortion. Hamas has been stock piling weapons for the intent of killing Israelis. Why on earth should Israel be criticized for trying to keep this from happening?

Bill H, I agree but not with the part about the UN giving Jews Arab Land. It wasn't Arab land. Arab and Hebrew were so close, they know they are brothers and ALL lived there (before Islam and even after), but now since Muslim Extremists are convincing Arabs converted to Islam that its their duty to kill all Jews, everything is ruined.No groups like this can be allowed to take over. Not NeoNazis, KKK, Christian Crusaders or Muslims to kill Jews. If leaders have no maturity their country will be in jepardy. Hamas, Now Egypt, Syria blahblah have NO maturity. I don't know about Qatar but they have been speaking with Hamas about reconciling with PLO. Still it will take more than that.

But the Jews took all of it and terrorized the Arabs into fleeing! Besides, if you want to look at it that way, then the land was taken from Palestinians (Arabs, Jews, etc.) and given to Europeans. But it doesn't really matter how you look at it - land was stolen. Why can't Israeli supporters just admit the truth of this?

It's like the city comes to your house and tells you that others are being given your house and the neighborhood -- and you are blamed when it pisses you off that you've lost everything. Where's is the moral understanding of exactly what the consequences of this are. Of course they hate the people who are living there now. The Jews still hate the Germans and demand reparations. Is it really so hard to comprehend that other will feel the same?

JSF.... I didn't say it was fair or just. What happened was a long time ago. The Palestine people are made of the same stuff as the Jews. They can thrive like the Jews. Learn from them. Stop brooding about what your grandfathers lost, and look to today for your opportunities.

JFS49,

You cannot change history, yes some Jews in 48 were bad but so were some Muslims. The people were told to leave and after the Jews were killed they could come back and take the land but it did not work out that way and now that they lost they want to change the rules.

There were also 1.5 million Jews living in the Middle Eastern countries that were thrown out in 48 and they moved to the new country of Israel but instead of brooding they developed their own country. Maybe if the Palestinians took the same path they would have thriving country.

Israel has been there 64 years at some time you have to move on and start looking at the future instead of worrying about the past.

I don't know how anyone can say, get over it move on, when settlements are still being built and land still being stolen. Israel was only given a certain portion of land but they keep taking Why don't they get over it and move back 1967 borders and stop building settlements? I do not buy this argument that they should keep the land stolen since 1967 and is still being stolen today. People of good will will stand up strong and admit this is wrong with something more definitive than "stop brooding" and "gee things just didn't work out".

JSF,

The Palestinians refused a country and thus gave up all rights to the land. What part of that do you not understand?. When you pick your leaders you have to live with the consequences as we have here with Bush and Obama.

Israel will never go back to the 67 borders because they will never give up Jerusalem again so accept this.

The family of my wife does not go back to Syria and ask for their house that was in Aleppo, or the Jews of Libya that had to flee along with the 1.5 million Jews in the other Middle Eastern countries, they started new lives, educated their children and made a better life for them. I would also add my Mother has not called up the government of Poland asking for her mothers house, she made a life in the US and never looked back.

JSF,

Where are you getting your facts from. The Palestinians supported the Arab league that attacked Israel twice trying to destroy them and as a result of siding with the loser lost there homes. Had the roles been reversed I promise they would not have left one Jew alive. You might also wish to check into the ties between the Palestinians and Nazi's in WW2 and see that the reason the land was given back to Israel was for two reasons, one they sided with Nazi's (their religious leader from Jerusalem Grand Mafti Haj Amin al-Husseini was part of the Gestapo and helped exterminate a lot of Jewish people, look it up), this was the reason that the land was given back and because Arabs fought against the allies and sided with the Axis.

You really need to brush up on your history before you start posting misleading posts.

JSF,

Why don't you use your good will and high morals and stand up to the Palestinians and tell them that firing missiles while shielding themselves with women and children is wrong. Why don't you use the same morals and tell them that electing in a leadership of terrorist that have openly stated in their charter that not only do they not recognize Israel but it is the right and Glorious thing to do to kill one. Take your high morals and look at the West Bank, see that they are slowly getting more self determination towards achieving a nation as they live peacefully next to Israel. You want to know what is stopping them, they will not denounce Hamas, even though Hamas took all their leadership and slaughtered them when they took power in Gaza, or is your High Morals over looking this?

JSF49,

Again you are rewriting history, the land including Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, which was called Palestine was lost at the end of WWI when the Ottoman Empire sided with Germany. I would also add that the Palestinians sided with Hitler's Germany again in WWII and the lost again.

I am talking about people, humans, not countries. People lost everything. They are still loosing. Japan sided with Germany and we are their friends so I don't see what that has to do with human beings.

There are 2 sides to history. You start at point B and say, "gee, just forget about A". But A came first.

Japan and Germany both accepted that the US has the right to have a country and thus prospered, maybe the Palestinians should try that instead of their option of saying Israel has no right to exist.

JSF is one of these people that turns blinders to all the wrongs that Palestinians do and then scream in indignation if Israel dares to defend itself. I will tell you what, you tell me where you live, I will purchase a home right next to you, then fire rockets at you all day, send my children with bombs strapped on themselves to blow themselves up at your parties. If you ever dare respond I will have the news out there while I stage false deaths and attacks that never happened (look at 60 minutes article on Paliwood in You-Tube) and then have everyone label you the aggressor if you dare to ever defend yourself. Sound familiar?

JSF,

Why didn't the Ottoman's give you a country when they controlled the land? Why didn't Jordan and Egypt give you a country when they controlled the land from 48 to 67? Why did the Palestinians never request a country in this time? Why are the Palestinians living in tent cities in Lebanon with no access to medical to or schooling yet the people never complain about this inhumane treatment? Why if things are so bad in Gaza why is the average life span over 74 which is better than many other countries in the area? These are simple questions that I am sure you can answer.

I am not middle eastern nor Arab nor Muslim. And I really don't care what flag was flying on any particular date.

I am not saying 1 side is 100% right or wrong. I am saying that a lot of the evidence is seen through the lens of one's chosen side. Americans are inundated with one side and never hear the other. There is another and it involves really horrible things that have been done to the individual human people whose land and lives were taken from them in 1947. Peace and resolution must start with everyone admitting that simple fact.

You obviously do care because you are claiming the land was stolen which it was not, it was lost in World War I.

I actually am well read and know both sides, but it is clear given the Palestinians never requested a country when Egypt and Jordan controlled the land that it has nothing to do with their own country but that Israel exists as a country.

JSF has actually gotten part of this right. We have higher moral expectations of the Israelis, because most of them are Jews and Christians, than we do Muslim Palestinians. That observation is very poigiant but at the same time reflects a certain bigotry. Should be not expect the same of both? Just because they are Muslims does that mean we do not have to hold them to the same moral standards?

Sarah,

Their leaders keep blaming the Israel so they do not have to do anything to fix the lives of their people and the Palestinians accept it. That is the sad truth.