E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSS
Yui Mok / Pool via AP
The outgoing Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams, center right, embraces an unidentified person after draft legislation introducing the first women bishops in the Church of England failed to receive final approval from the Church of England General Synod, at Church House in central London, on Nov. 20.
The Church of England voted on Tuesday against legislation that would have allowed the ordination of women bishops, the culmination of more than 10 years of divisive debate.
The General Synod, the legislative body of the Church which is made up of separate houses for bishops, clergy and laity, failed to reach the two-thirds majority required in all three houses to pass the measure.
"It was carried in the house of bishops and clergy, but lost in the house of laity. The motion having been lost ... we do not proceed any further," said Archbishop of York John Sentamu.
Women already serve as Anglican bishops in Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the United States, but the Church of England, mother church for the world's 80 million Anglicans, has struggled to reconcile the dispute between reformers and traditionalists on whether to allow them in England.
Church of England to vote on women bishops
The Church had already voted to allow women bishops in theory but Tuesday's vote, on provisions to be made for conservatives theologically opposed to senior women clergy, needed to pass before women could be enthroned as Anglican bishops in England.
Peter Macdiarmid / Getty Images
Women clergy and others line up for the public gallery outside Church House on Nov. 20 in London.
More world stories from NBC News:
- Clinton heads to Mideast on peace mission as Gaza crisis rages
- Too much democracy? Apathy triumphs in UK's latest election
- Obama's visit a sign of Myanmar's dizzying pace of change
- Key players in the Israel-Gaza cross-border conflict
- French girl found tied up - but alive - in trunk after routine traffic stop
- Mexican company Bimbo may be eyeing Twinkies
Follow World News from NBCNews.com on Twitter and Facebook
Copyright 2013 Thomson Reuters. Click for restrictions.
Leave a Comment:
Why does the church always lag behind the secular world in matters of justice and equality?
At the heart of Christianity (as also Judaism and Islam) is misogyny.
Because "the church" is the enemy of justice and equality.
God is dead. ~Nietsche
Nietsche is dead. ~God
I never said that!
Stop using my name, goddamn it!
Bishops, get your heads out of the sand and enter the 21st century. It is not a man's world anymore.
not sand arse.
Obviously ENGLAND as ITALY still live in the dark ages and equality is just lip service.
The so called educated elite of the religion are hypocrites, next thing they'll do is bring back burning women at the stake or "the Inquisition" for not believing them.
THEY are not worth the oxygen they consume, world would be a better place if reporters stopped reporting this CRAP.
Of course they did. Like anything else was expected? Old men who use a "God" that told "a old man" that only and usually, rich, old men can only be in the leaders of a religion because?
That ignorant, pathic, old argument may of worked when they made sure the women and poor were kept ignorant without education, but this is not the dark ages when these guys were the real boogieman.
All religious books were written to enslave the woman, and make sure the poor were made to serve this non-existent God by well, making them subservient to the will of the rich old men.
Science the great equalizer of taking down the old and new religions who have held this world captive with wars and ignorant ideas and down right lies over one God or another.
Yep! The good old boys club won't let the girls play. I mean, how else can religious zealots control women?? That's what religion has been since the beginning of time. Look at the religions that were invented so the "creator" of those religions could control and seduce women. Want to screw a bunch of women, create Mormanism, etc. Why is religions so concerned with sex anyway?? It's about sex or preventing sex, either way, it's about - SEX...
They wanted to be bishops? Next they'll want to drive and vote, too!
Shame on England
Ok, I'm cunfused! You have Bishops in other Country as part of this Church, but you voted not to allow them! I do not know, maybe this poor Methodist boy is dense, but should'nt you have voted BEFORE making them Bishops?
The way I'm reading it, the CoE does not have doctrinal control over the ECUSA; they merely share the Archbishop of Canterbury as their titular head. As a natter of fact, Methodism springs from the same source; Charles Wesley founded Methodism as an attempt to reform the CoE and ended up with his own sect. In fact, before the (IIRC) Missouri Synod, the United Methodist Church was referred to as the Methodist Episcopal Churches. The African Methodist Episcopal Church still is referred to in that way...
You know what's funny? Miriam and suseq can spout Saul of Tarsus at high volume but, to my recollection, haven't quoted Jesus the Christ once! Makes me wonder who they really worship...
The Bible is the word of God and some have just chosen not to follow that. There is an order of things that was established through his word and one being that man is the leader, it does not state that women are less intelligent or capable because they are. Any changes that are made do not come from God they are societies rules that have degenerated over time and that is obvious with people believing one of the same sex can marry.
So tell me, cartier, just exactly what comes from God, what comes from the OT authors, what comes from Saul of Tarsus (a. k. a. St. Paul), and what comes from Jesus of Nazareth--you know, the guy who we supposedly all follow?...
Then why does it have so many god damned contradictions? Why couldn't god have written it so everyone, even the lowest shepherd, could understand it? Why are there so many different interpretations? How could god allow so many different denominations, and let them all claim to be the only true one? Why did god create mormons? And christian scientists?
And why, for dog's sake, is christianity now worshipping from a bible written by a king who burned witches at the stake? What was wrong with the first version?
Explain yourself, christian!
And don't change the subject or answer the questions with other questions!
If you would state something that you believe is a contradiction I could explain but one can not generalize that the whole Bible is a contradiction. The Old testament is the old covenant and the new is the New covenant. The old testament is mostly full of genealogy.
There is only one interpretation that I know of, however the Bible has been changed to newer version to make it more understandable.
God did not create denominations, people did. God has stayed constant and has not change. Religion is man made and that is why I go to a church that teaches right from the Bible, and does not yeiled so societal pressures.
Where did the burning witches at the stake come from? There certainly is no Biblical reference for that. Christian Science has nothing to do with the Bible at all and all of these different religions can be found on the Internet, with their history and founders.
The Mormon church was started by self proclaimed prophet Joseph Smith and the church follows the book of Mormon more than the Bible. Other churches have been created the same way. Smith was shot to death.
OK, explain these:
1.One doubted. Jn.20:24.
Some doubted. Mt.28:17.
All doubted. Mk.16:11; Lk.24:11,14.
2. Jesus said that his blood was shed for many. Mk.14:24.
Jesus said his blood was shed for his disciples. Lu.22:20.
3. Simon of Cyrene was forced to bear the cross of Jesus. Mt.27:32; Mk.15:21; Lu.23:26.
Jesus bore his own cross. Jn.19:16,17.
4. Jesus was offered vinegar and gall to drink. Mt.27:34.
Jesus was offered vinegar to drink. Jn.19:29,30.
Jesus was offered wine and myrrh to drink. Mk.15:23.
5. Jesus refused the drink offered him. Mk.15:23.
Jesus tasted the drink offered and then refused. Mt.27:34.
Jesus accepted the drink offered him. Jn.19:30.
6. Both “thieves” mocked Jesus on the cross. Mt. 27:44; Mk.15:32.
One “thief” sided with Jesus on the cross. Lu.23:39-41.
7. Joseph of Arimathaea boldly asked for the body of Jesus. Mk.15:43.
Joseph of Arimathaea secretly asked for the body of Jesus. Jn.19:38.
8. Jesus was laid in a nearby tomb. Mk.15:46; Lu.23:53; Jn.19:41.
Jesus was laid in Joseph’s new tomb. Mt.27:59,60.
9. A great stone was rolled in front of the tomb. Mt.27:60; Mk.15:46.
There was nothing in front of the tomb. Lu.23:55; Jn.19:41.
10. Nicodemus prepared the body with spices. Jn.19:39,40.
Failing to notice this, the women bought spices to prepare the body later. Mk. 16:1; Lu.23:55,56.
11. The body was anointed. Jn.19:39,40.
The body was not anointed. Mk.15:46 to 16:1; Lk.23:55 to 24:1.
12. The women bought materials before the sabbath. Lu.23:56.
The women bought materials after the sabbath. Mk.16:1.
13. Jesus was first seen by Cephas, then the twelve. 1 Cor.15:5.
Jesus was first seen by the two Marys. Mt.28:1,8,9.
Jesus was first seen by Mary Magdalene. Mk.16:9; Jn.20:1,14,15.
Jesus was first seen by Cleopas and others. Lu.24:17,18.
Jesus was first seen by the disciples. Acts 10:40,41.
14. The two Marys went to the tomb. Mt.28:1.
The two Marys and Salome went to the tomb. Mk.16:1.
Several women went to the tomb. Lu.24:10.
Only Mary Magdalene went to the tomb. Jn.20:1.
15. It was dawn when Mary went to the tomb. Mt.28:1; Mk.16:2.
It was dark when Mary went to the tomb. Jn.20:1.
30.
31. An angel sat on the stone at the door of the tomb. Mt.28:2.
A man was sitting inside the tomb. Mk.16:5.
32.
33. Two men were standing inside the tomb. Lk.24:3,4.
Two angels were sitting inside the tomb. Jn.20:12.
34.
35. Peter did not go into the tomb but stooped and looked inside. Lk.24:12.
Peter did go into the tomb, and another disciple stooped and looked inside. Jn.20:3-6.
36.
37. After the resurrection, the disciples held Jesus by the feet. Mt.28:9.
After the resurrection, Jesus told Thomas to touch his side. John 20:27.
After the resurrection, Jesus said that he was not to be touched. Jn.20:17.
38.
39. Mary first saw Jesus at the tomb. Jn.20:11-15.
Mary first saw Jesus on her way home. Mt.28:8-10.
40.
41. The women entered the tomb. Mk.16:5; Lk.24:3.
The women stayed outside the tomb. Jn.20:11.
42.
43. The disciples were frightened when they saw Jesus. Lk.24:36,37.
The disciples were glad when they first saw Jesus. Jn.20:20.
44.
45. Twelve disciples saw Jesus. 1 Cor.15:5.
Eleven disciples saw Jesus. Thomas was not there. Mt.28:16,17; Jn.20:19-25.
46.
47. The disciples doubted that Jesus had risen from the dead. Mt.28:17.
The Pharisees and chief priests believed it possible. Mt.27:62-66.
48.
49. Jesus ascended on the third day after the resurrection. Lk.24:21,50,51.
Jesus ascended the same day as the crucifixion. Lk.23:42 43.
Jesus ascended forty days after the resurrection. Acts 1:3,9.
50.
51. At the time of the ascension, there were about 120 brethren. Acts 1:15.
At the time of the ascension, there were about 500 brethren. 1 Cor.15:6.
52.
53. The moneychangers incident occurred at the end of Jesus’ career. Mt.21:11,12.
The moneychangers incident occurred at the beginning of Jesus’ career. Jn.2:11-15.
54.
55. Zacharias was the son of Jehoida, the priest. 2 Chr.24:20.
Jesus said that Zacharias was the son of Barachias. Mt.23:35. (Note: The name Barachias or Barachiah does not appear in the OT.)
56.
57. The coming of the kingdom will be accompanied by signs and miracles. Mt.24:29-33; Mk.13:24-29.
It will not be accompanied by signs and miracles since it occurs from within. Lk.17:20,21.
58.
59. The kingdom was prepared from the beginning. Mt.25:34.
Jesus said that he was going to go and prepare the kingdom. Jn.14:2,3.
60.
61. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin. Mk.3:29.
All sins are forgivable. Acts 13:39; Col.2:13; 1 Jn.1:9.
62.
63. The ascension took place while the disciples were seated together at a table. Mk.16:14-19.
The ascension took place outdoors at Bethany. Lk.24:50,51.
The ascension took place outdoors at Mt. Olivet. Acts 1:9-12.
64.
65. The holy spirit was with John from before he was born. Lk.1:15,41.
The holy spirit was with Elizabeth before John’s birth. Lk.1:41.
The holy spirit was with Zechariah. Lk.1:67.
The holy spirit was with Simeon. Lk.2:25.
The holy spirit is obtained by asking. Lk.11:13.
The holy spirit did not come into the world until after Jesus had departed. Jn.7:39; Jn.16:7; Acts 1:3-8.
66.
67. Sometimes God is responsible for unbelief. 2 Thes.2:11,12.
Sometimes Jesus is responsible for unbelief. Mk.4:11,12.
The devil causes unbelief. Lk.8:12.
68.
69. Whoever hates his brother is a murderer. 1 Jn.3:15.
If anyone claims to love God but hates his brother, he is a liar. 1 Jn.4:20.
No one can be a disciple of Jesus unless he hates his brother. Lk.14:26.
70.
71. Believers do not come into judgment. Jn.5:24.
All people come into judgment. Mt.12:36; 2 Cor.5:10; Heb.9:27; 1 Pet.1:17; Jude 14,15; Rev.20:12,13.
72.
73. Jesus says that, if he bears witness to himself, his testimony is true. Jn.8:14.
Jesus says that, if he bears witness to himself, his testimony is not true. Jn.5:31.
74.
75. Men can choose whether or not to believe. Jn.5:38-47.
Only God chooses who will believe. Jn.6:44.
76.
77. None of Jesus’ followers would be lost. Jn.10:27-29.
Some of Jesus’ followers would be lost. 1 Tim.4:1.
78.
79. Jesus is the ruling prince of this world. Rev.1:5.
The prince of this world will be cast out. Jn.12:31.
80.
81. Jesus says all men will be saved. Jn.3:17.
Only 144,000 virgin men will be saved. Rev. 14:1-4.
82.
83. God wants all men to be saved. 1 Tim.2:3,4; 2 Pet.3:9.
God does not want all men to be saved. Jn.12:40.
84.
85. Peter asks Jesus where he is going. Jn.13:36.
Thomas asks Jesus where he is going. Jn.14:5.
Jesus said that no one asked where he was going. Jn.16:5.
86.
87. Jesus lost only one disciple. Jn.17:12.
Jesus lost no disciples. Jn.18:9.
88.
89. Jesus came into the world to bear witness to the truth. Jn.18:37.
The truth has always been evident. Rom.1:18-20.
90.
91. During his first resurrection appearance, Jesus gave his disciples the holy spirit. Jn.20:22.
The holy spirit was given to the disciples after his ascension. Acts 1:3-8.
92.
93. The world could not contain all that could be written of Jesus. Jn.21:25.
All was written. Acts.1:1.
94.
95. Obey the laws of men for it is the will of God. 1 Pet.2:13-15.
The disciples disobey the council. Acts 5:40-42.
96.
97. Obey God, not men. Acts 5:29.
Obey men. It is God’s will. Rom.13:1-4; 1 Pet.2:13-15.
98.
99. God hated Esau and loved Jacob even before they were born. Rom.9:10-13.
God shows no partiality and treats all alike. Acts 10:34; Rom.2:11.
100.
101. All who have sinned without the law will perish without the law. Rom.2:12.
Where there is no law there is no sin or transgression. Rom.4:15.
102.
103. Doers of the law will be justified. Rom.2:13.
Doers of the law will not be justified. Rom.3:20; Gal.3:11.
104.
105. The law has dominion. Rom.7:1.
The law does not have dominion. Rom.6:14.
106.
107. The law was the result of sin. Gal.3:19.
Sin is the result of breaking the law. 1 Jn.3:4.
108.
109. Those of “God” cannot sin. 1 Jn.3:9.
Those of “God” can sin. 1 Jn.1:7 8.
110.
111. The anointing of Jesus teaches right from wrong. 1 Jn.2:27.
The law written on the heart and conscience teaches right from wrong. Rom.2:15.
112.
113. Abraham was justified by faith. Heb.11:8.
Abraham was justified by works. Jms.2:21.
Abraham was not justified by works. Rom.4:2.
114.
115. It is not good to eat or drink anything that might cause your brother to stumble or be offended. Rom.14:21.
Let no one pass judgment on you in matters of food or drink. Col.2:16.
116.
117. It is better that widows should not remarry. 1 Cor.7:8.
It is better that young widows should remarry. 1 Tim.5:11-14.
118.
119. The god of this world blinds people to the gospel. 2 Cor.4:4.
There is only one god. 1 Cor.8:4.
120.
121. The powers of this world are wicked, so fight against them. Eph.6:11-13.
All powers are ordained of God and, if you resist, you are damned. Rom.13:1,2.
122.
123. Bear one another’s burdens. Gal.6:2.
Bear your own burdens. Gal.6:5.
124.
125. Anyone who even greets a non-believer shares his wicked work. 2 Jn.10,11.
Always be ready to answer any man concerning your faith. 1 Pet.3:15.
126.
127. All of the grass on the earth is burned up. Rev.8:7.
The army of locusts are instructed not to harm the grass. Rev.9:4.
128.
129. Only “The Father” knows. Mk.13:32.
“Jesus” and “The Father” are one. Jn.10:30; 17:11,21,22.
130.
131. Jesus said that he would judge. Jn.5:22,27-30; Jn.9:39.
Jesus said that he would not judge. Jn.8:15; Jn.12:47.
Jesus said that The Father judges. Jn.12:48,49.
Jesus said that The Father does not judge. Jn.5:22.
Jesus said that his disciples would judge. Lk.22:30.
132.
133. He that does not believe is damned. Mk.16:16.
Thomas did not believe and was not damned. Jn.20:27-29.
134.
135. “When his branch is yet tender”. Mt.24:32.
“When her branch is yet tender”. Mk.13:28.
136.
137. Jesus is God. Jn.10:30.
Jesus is the “image” of God. 2 Cor.4:4.
Jesus was a man approved by God. Acts 2:22.
138.
139. Jesus and God are one in the same. Jn.1:1.
Jesus is beside himself. Mk.16:19; Acts 2:32,33; 7:55; Rom.8:34; etc.
140.
141. Jesus is the Son of God. Jn.6:69; Jn.20:31.
Jesus is the Son of Man. Mt.18:11; Lk.21:27.
142.
143. Paul states that he does not lie. Rom.9:1; 2 Cor.11:31; Gal.1:20; 1 Tim.2:7.
Paul states that he does lie. Rom.3:7.
144.
145. Paul said that he does not use trickery. 1 Thes.2:3.
Paul admits to using trickery. 2 Cor.12:16.
146.
147. Paul says that circumcision is nothing. 1 Cor.7:19.
Paul says that circumcision is profitable. Rom.2:25; Rom.3:1,2.
148.
149. Do not covet. Rom.7:7; Rom.13:9.
Paul says covet. 1 Cor.12:31; 1 Cor.14:39.
150.
151. Paul teaches not to steal. Eph.4:28.
Paul admits to stealing. 2 Cor.11:8.
152.
153. Paul was assured that he would not be hurt. Acts 18:9,10.
Paul was often physically abused. 2 Cor.11:23-27.
154.
155. Paul states that the law is necessary. Rom.3:31.
Paul states that the law is not necessary. Rom.6:14.
156.
157. Jesus said to go and baptize. Mt.28:19.
Paul said he was not sent to baptize. 1 Cor.1:17.
158.
159. Paul said he was not sent to baptize but to preach. 1 Cor.1:17.
Paul baptized. 1 Cor.1:16.
160.
161. Jesus said that he did not come to abolish the law. Mt.5:17-19.
Paul said otherwise. Eph.2:15.
162.
163. Jesus said that God did not condemn the world. Jn. 3:17.
Paul said that God did condemn the world. Rom.5:18.
164.
165. Those present at Paul’s conversion stood. Acts 9:7.
They fell to the ground. Acts 26:14.
166.
167. Those present at Paul’s conversion heard a voice but saw nothing. Acts 9:7.
Those present at Paul’s conversion saw a light but heard nothing. Acts 22:9.
168.
169. Shortly after his conversion, Paul went to Damascus where he spent some time with the apostles. Acts 9:19.
Paul went to Damascus three years later and saw only Peter and James. Gal.1:18,19.
170.
171. Shortly after his conversion, Paul went to Damascus and then to Jerusalem. Acts 9:18-26.
Shortly after his conversion, Paul went to Arabia, then to Damascus, and then, 3 years later, to Jerusalem. Gal.1:17,18.
172.
173. In Damascus, the governor attempts to seize Paul. 2 Cor.11:32.
In Damascus, the Jews attempt to seize Paul. Acts 9:22,23.
174.
175. The holy spirit forbids preaching in Asia. Acts 16:6.
Paul preaches in Asia anyway. Acts 19:8-10.
176.
177. Paul said he would not be a servant of Christ if he tried to please men. Gal.1:10.
Paul said that he tried to please men. 1 Cor.10:33.
178.
179. Paul says that he was the chief of all sinners. 1 Tim.1:15.
He who commits sin is of the devil. Children of God cannot sin. 1 Jn.3:8-10.
180.
181. Paul said that Jesus is the judge. 2 Tim.4:1.
Paul said that God is the judge. Heb.12:23.
Paul said that the saints would judge. 1 Cor.6:2.
182.
183. Paul said that Jesus was the Son of God. Rom.1:3,4.
Paul said that Jesus was just a man. Heb.7:24.
184.
185. Do not boast. Lk.18:14.
Do not be proud. Rom.11:20; 1 Pet. 5:5.
Paul proudly boasts. 2 Cor.11:16-18; Gal.2:9-11.
186.
187. Jesus commends the church at Ephesus for discerning the lying apostles. Rev. 2:1,2.
Paul was the apostle to Ephesus. Eph.1:1.
The Bible is there for anyone to read. I would certainly be glad to answer any reasonable question, but one would have to understand that I am not a theologists. I would not respond to sarcasm or someone pulling my chain. If there is something I can answer I will.
I asked how the bible could be the word of god, as you claim, when there are so many mistakes in it.
Of COURSE you can't answer... I never expected you could, because god didn't write it. But you'll never admit it.
It would take me all night to answer all those because I have to read everyone as to the interpetation, how ever with mk 4:24 is not the whole verse and he did shed his blood for many. The Luke verse has to do with the sacriment of communion where Jesus had told his deciples that he shed his blood for them and that they should eat bread and the wine as his blood so that every time that was done is was done in a manner to remember what Jesus had sacrificed for them.
@-god........Are you sure you didn't miss any contradictions?
You act like someone with a vendetta,a score to settle'-god'.If you are that interested ,I suggest you talk like that to a forum ,in person.Maybe you'll get the reaction you expect.Certainly will get one you deserve
Hebrews 7:24 does not say that Jesus was a man. What it is referring to is that all former priest that have died and could not carry on. Jesus word will live on forever because Jesus was resurrected from death. There is no reference him being a man but a priest, a teacher. I am not seeing any contradiction in those two examples at all. Now if one looks at something as to be biased he can make something out of anything. One has to read the Bible with a open mind and I have yet to find a contradiction. I don't know what is meant by so many mistakes. The Gospel are a representative of the authors remembrance while being with Christ.
Like I said I will not respond to sarcasm or being jerk around. There are several people in the comm unity near you that could sit down and answer the questions you ask. However I wonder if that is really what you want.
I'm not jerking you around. It's a legitimate, and simple, question:
How can the bible be the word of god, as you claim, when there are so many mistakes in it?
@pained: I don't care what you think I act like. Either answer the question or butt out. You god guys think you can post whatever you like to praise him but you hop around like crickets in a frying pan when someone mocks him. Or the idea of him, since he doesn't exist.
@midnight... I probably did, but there's enough here to start with.
P cartier said, "Where did the burning witches at the stake come from? There certainly is no Biblical reference for that."
Burning is to Christianity as turkey is to Thanksgiving!
"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." Exodus 22:18
God will "cut off" the witches and soothsayers. Micah 5:11-12
Witches, idol worshippers, and heretics will not go to heaven. (Guess where they go.) Galatians 5:20-21
Obviously, P cartier, you do not know WHAT is in your own Bible and you are willfully ignorant of the Church's history:
In the era of witch hunting (1484-1750) according to modern scholars, several hundred thousand (about 80% female) burned at the stake or hanged; incomplete list of documented cases.
On one of the "good christian" Columbus' visits to Hispaniola, the indian chief Hatuey fled with his people, but was captured and burned alive. As they were tying him to the stake a Franciscan friar urged him to take Jesus to his heart so that his soul might go to heaven, rather than descend into hell. Hatuey replied that if heaven was where the Christians went, he would rather go to hell. What happened to his people was described by an eyewitness, "The Spaniards found pleasure in inventing all kinds of odd cruelties. They built a long gibbet, long enough for the toes to touch the ground to prevent strangling, and hanged thirteen [natives] at a time in honor of Christ Our Saviour and the twelve Apostles... then, straw was wrapped around their torn bodies and they were burned alive."
Surpisingly few know that Nazi extermination camps in World War II were by no means the only ones in Europe at the time. In the years 1942-1943 also in Croatia existed numerous extermination camps, run by
Catholic Ustasha under their dictator Ante Paveliç, a practising Catholic and regular visitor to the then pope. There were even concentration camps exclusively for children! In these camps - the most notorious was Jasenovac, headed by a Franciscan friar - orthodox-Christian serbians (and a substantial number of Jews) were murdered. Like the Nazis the Catholic Ustasha burned their victims in kilns, alive (the Nazis were decent enough to have their victims gassed first). But most of the victims were simply stabbed, slain or shot to death, the number of them being estimated between 300,000 and 600,000, in a rather tiny country. Many of the killers were Franciscan friars. The atrocities were appalling enough to induce bytanders of the Nazi "Sicherheitsdient der SS", watching, to complain about them to Hitler (who did not listen). The pope knew about these events and did nothing to prevent them.
More recently, during the Rwanda massacre in 1994, in connection with these events again and again two Benedictine nuns are mentioned, both of whom have fled into a Belgian monastery in the meantime to avoid prosecution. According to survivors one of them called the Hutu killers and led them to several thousand people who had sought shelter in her monastery. By force the doomed were driven out of the churchyard and were murdered in the presence of the nun right in front of the gate. The other one is also reported to have directly cooperated with the murderers of the Hutu militia. In her case again witnesses report that she watched the slaughtering of people in cold blood and without showing response. She is even accused of having procured some petrol used by the killers to set on fire and burn their victims alive."
According to NAF, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, property crimes committed by Christians against abortion providers have included 41 bombings, 173 arsons, 91 attempted bombings or arsons, 619 bomb threats, 1630 incidents of trespassing, 1264 incidents of vandalism, and 100 attacks with butyric acid ("stink bombs"). The first clinic arson occurred in Oregon in March 1976 and the first bombing occurred in February 1978 in Ohio. More recent incidents have included:
* October 1999: Martin Uphoff set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, causing US$100 thousand worth of damage. He was later sentenced to 60 months in prison.
* May 28, 2000: An arson at a clinic in Concord, New Hampshire on resulted in damage estimated at US$20,000.
* June 11, 2001: A bombing at a clinic in Tacoma, Washington destroyed a wall, resulting in US$6000 in damages.
* July 4, 2005: A clinic Palm Beach, Florida was the target of an arson.
* December 12, 2005: Patricia Hughes and Jeremy Dunahoe threw a Molotov cocktail at a clinic in Shreveport, Louisiana. The device missed the building and no damage was caused. In August 2006, Hughes was sentenced to six years in prison, and Dunahoe to one year.
* September 13, 2006 David McMenemy of Rochester Hills, Michigan crashed his car into the Edgerton Women's Care Center in Davenport, Iowa. He then doused the lobby in gasoline and then started a fire. McMenemy committed these acts in the belief that the center was performing abortions, however Edgerton is not an abortion clinc.
* April 25, 2007: A package left at a women's health clinic in Austin, Texas contained an explosive device capable of inflicting serious injury or death. A bomb squad detonated the device.
* May 9, 2007: An unidentified person deliberately set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Virginia Beach, Virginia.
* December 6, 2007: Two unidentified persons set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
Own your Christian history, P cartier!
Any organization that doesn't treat women as equal is wrong, especially religious organizations!
I see a lot of post about homosexuality again. The fact is that God deemed it to be wrong so there should be argument with that and it is not open to misinterpretation. What it comes down to is whether one believes in God or they attempt to make their own perception of what God wants. God has showed that he wanted man to be the leader. Women are intelligent and capable and deserve every respect, but not leadership.
'God has showed that he wanted man to be the leader. Women are intelligent and capable and deserve every respect, but not leadership."
Ahh...a guy using a three thousand year old book written by men to put his morbid fear of women on display. Yawn. You need a shrink to help you get over your fear of women, not more religion.
There realy should be no arguement or even entertaining the idea of disolving what God has set. More than anyone clergy should know that. For the church this should be a non - issue.
So should the church also condone selling daughters into slavery and stoning your neighbors to death for working on the Sabbath?
Cowards.
I saw all the Bishops signing church proclamations with their boys; no wonder women can not be bishops.
They have a point, and better than that the ink is invisible allowing them to lie and cheat all they want. I prayed to God and she said: "They will get their cum uppance and will go down at some point."
you're a messed up little fruit aren't you?
It is amusing how so many of you want to paint history,all of human history with a modern brush.This issue and many others like it.Why do muslim women want to keep traditions,even ones that keep them subjects to men?Why did this laity vote this way?Why are women treated as second class citizens so often?I'd suggest an understanding of the human animal,historically.Men are stronger,bonk women on the head.Fast forward thousands of years and remnants remain.Boo Hoo.There has been more positive change in the world in the last 3 centuries than there was in the previous 3 thousand[thanks to the christian west,the laity that is].And it isn't perfect boo hoo.People still believe in religion waaah
Wow. Time for that therapy appointment?
Too bad. I've met as many women with spiritual traits as I've met men without.
Even in the animal world there is one that is dominant over the other. There can not be equality in every aspect of life because we were just not made that way. Watch a girls hockey game vs boys and there is no comparison. There is a reason women sports are not big. Because they can not compare to men. Now the women's movement started with good intentions and they had some valid complaints and I agreed with them, but it went to far the other way and now there is very little distinction by society between the sexes.
Obviously you know nothing about biology either, P cartier. Often the females are much bigger and stronger than males. Ever seen a male black widow spider? Compare him to the female.
So...by your estimation, since women can't bench-press as much as men, they can't be bishops? Now THERE is some logic for you. Since you are incapable of logic and are male, does that mean, in conclusion, that men are illogical?
Who would have thought they would say NO! Who would have thought The Catholic Church would hide pedophiles! Who would have thought they would torture, murder, incarcerate non-believers and hide things in their archives. Is this the kind of actions you want your church to have and believe in? Whomever condones these crimes against Humanity is no better then the people committing it. It's been going on almost 2,000 years and people still do not get it.
this institution founded at the behest of Henry the *8th, is a male dominated household for relics of the stone age. they are not above making it a men only society, women second of course. equality does not exist in any religion, therefore God would turn his/her/its head away from the travesties of mankind as they pronounce how perfect their rendition of their God is and it would be spiritually fatal to deny the righteousness of their God.
ahh, what a pity that man cannot learn to learn in time.
pathetic lot of backwards folks with a one dimensional outlook and undoubtedly alot of fear at losing their reign of spiritual terror/
Reading King Jame Version Bible, there have been many anointed female preacher, ministers, ancestor (Ruth) for our Messiah, judges . . . from Old Testament to New Testament, such as Judge Deborah, Esther, Phoebe, Lydia, the four daughters of Philip, Priscilla, Tryphosa . . . These females have laid the path for the females in the 21st century to serve His church, for God is the God of Abraham, the God of Jacob, and the God of the 21st century.
When Adam named all those animals in the Eden garden, our female astronauts have explored the space and the stars, which has explained the moving forward of the 21st century, as women, females, should have the roles in church, either teaching/preaching or ministering.
Thy will shalt be like thou God's will.
Good thing it's fake. If fake church bans women clerics, that just saves women the trouble of having to go around lying to people on a daily basis.