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Subscribe to RSSThe truce is strained when Israeli forces fire on a protest by Palestinians seeking access to fertile land close to the Gaza border. NBC's Ayman Moyheldin reports
News analysis
ASHKELON, Israel — Israel's warplanes and Iron Dome anti-rocket missiles have been facing south for eight days, but their message was heard loud and clear to the north — by leaders in Iran and Lebanon.
The fighting against Hamas in Gaza, carried out by mostly missiles and planes, can be seen as a war game for what could happen if Israel moved to take out Iran's nuclear program, a much larger action that could result in both Hezbollah in Lebanon and Iran firing rockets toward Tel Aviv.
And violent as it has been, one Israeli general described Hamas, when comparing its might to Hezbollah and Iran, as a rain drop in a storm.
In other words, there's worse to come if Israel attacks Iran, much worse.
Israel declares mission accomplished, Hamas claims victory
So, what, if any, lessons did Israel learn that can be applied to Iran?
Homefront
The most obvious concerns the endurance of Israel's "homefront," which is simply a military, dehumanizing term for "the people." Verdict: good.
There were almost no complaints by the people that they had to spend so long in bomb shelters. Southern towns like Ofakim, Ashkelon, Beer Sheva and even Ashdod closer to the center were attacked about a 150 times each in seven days. That means the people rushed to their shelters as the sirens wailed on average 21 times a day.
Yet despite the discomfort and fear, most people did not call for an end to Israel's assault on Gaza. They wanted it to last as long as necessary to stop all rockets from Gaza in the future.
Iron Dome
The Iron Dome, Israel's home-made anti-rocket missile system, Israel's key defense against rockets from Gaza prevented carnage. Verdict: Very good with an official hit rate of 84 percent.
According to Israeli army figures, Islamist militants in Gaza fired 1,506 rockets at Israel in eight days. Eight hundred and seventy-five fell harmlessly into open areas like fields and the sea. The Iron Dome is programmed to let those alone and to intercept only rockets that would hit urban areas.
Shops and stores are reopening and a semblance of normalcy is returning to Gaza's streets after a cease-fire between Israel and Hamas is put into effect. NBC's Ayman Mohyeldin reports from Gaza.
Iron Dome intercepted 421 rockets and 58 rockets actually got through, killing three civilians and wounding about 100 more, mostly lightly.
How Israel's 'Iron Dome' intercepts incoming rockets in Gaza conflict
Shelters
The small number of casualties was because a few people did not use Israel's second defense layer, the bomb shelters. Verdict: Very good.
Nobody in a shelter was hurt. The three killed did not do as they were advised and stood on their balcony watching the action. A rocket shot right through the window, splattering them against the walls.
But while the world has been watching the war in the south, the threat from the north is much bigger. Israeli intelligence sources say Hamas and partners in Gaza had 10,000 rockets. Hezbollah in South Lebanon has between 100,000 and 200,000, including longer range rockets that carry heavier explosive warheads, according to Israeli military analysts.
The Iron Dome could be effective against several fired at the same time and even a dozen or two, but if hundreds of long-range rockets are fired, for instance, at Israel's largest population center Tel Aviv, it is guaranteed that many would get through, causing havoc, heavy damage and possibly loss of life.
Israel needs America
How long could the homefront, or the people, withstand such an onslaught, especially if compounded by rockets from Iran?
The answer is not clear, but what is clear is that such an attack from Lebanon would provoke instant and massive Israeli retaliation.
That leads to another lesson, or rather byproduct, of the assault on Hamas — Hamas may already be eliminated from the equation of a post-Iran strike. Would Hamas fight for Iran after the punishment it received in the past week and the depletion of its rocket supply and rocket-manufacturing ability? Nobody knows.
Mohammed Salem / Reuters
Two sides exchange deadly airstrikes, rocket attacks.
Shot dead, dragged through the streets: The fate of an alleged spy in Gaza
More likely is that Islamic Jihad, which is armed, trained and financed by Tehran, would fire its rockets at Israel, even if Hamas tried to stop them. So another lesson for Israel: Take out Islamic Jihad in Gaza — and that could lead to conflict with Hamas anyway.
But as political and military leaders here analyze the results and lessons of the past week, the clearest lesson is probably this, and it is hardly new: Israel needs the United States.
It was President Barack Obama who insisted on a cease-fire, who called Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi three times in 24 hours, and who had several calls with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, shepherding both through the difficult process of reaching an agreement.
Americans tied to Israel caught in the chaos of Gaza conflict
The fact is, Israel could not have carried out an invasion of Gaza without Washington's support. And as Obama made clear in his talks with Netanyahu, the United States prefers no ground invasion. And Israel agreed.
So at the moment, Israel has Western support for latest action in Gaza. This support would evaporate if it decided unilaterally to invade Gaza.
If the cease-fire holds for 24 hours, Israel will start talking about lifting border control on Gaza. In the meantime, Israeli ground troops remain mobilized in case Hamas resumes rocket attacks from Gaza. NBC's Andrea Mitchell reports.
But if newly re-elected Obama says the same about an attack on Iran, only more forcibly, will Israel agree again?
That is a different issue. Israel's homefront and defensive shield give Israel's freedom to act, but the bit questions are, for how long? And against what strength enemy?
And critical will be this: Will Obama be for or against?
Martin Fletcher is the author of "The List", "Breaking News" and "Walking Israel".
More world stories from NBC News:
- China's latest supermodel? A 72-year-old farmer
- Despite US woes, Twinkies reign supreme on the Nile
- Analysis: Why Hezbollah sat out the Gaza conflict
- Too much democracy? Apathy triumphs in UK's latest election
- Obama's visit a sign of Myanmar's dizzying pace of change
Follow World News from NBCNews.com on Twitter and Facebook
Leave a Comment:
The Gaza crisis taught us that Israel treats the Palestinians exactly the way white Americans treated our own native peoples: as an inferior race whom we can trick with peace treaties we have no intention of keeping, so they can be moved into smaller and smaller reservations until they disappear.
Go back to meca and lick allah's ass, creep.
Being Israeli means never having to say you are sorry.
Being Israeli means your best friend fiendishly promotes
The Apocalypse with you in the tragic role.
Being Israeli means believing enough of the Bible to justify theft, killing and coveting without guilt
yet hardly ever bothering to go to Temple.
Being Israeli means believing The Holocaust is a religion that justifies ignoring the suffering of others.
Being Israeli means never learning of the role of zionists in treacherously shepherding hundreds of thousand, in full knowledge of their fate, onto the trains to Auschwitz.
Being Israeli means never learning about Israel protecting the treacherous, zionist, co-perpetrators of the Holocaust; and never wanting to know.
Being Israeli means never having to say "you are sorry".
That day will come when AIPAC and the FED has TOTAL grip on USA... and when that day comes and we loss our liberty and freedom to a foreign nation then will we realize whats been happening to us.
-They control almost 90% of nationalized midea
-100% of the FED
-They are seeping in to congress
-The President can't get elected with them veting him
-In government you lose or get discredited if you say a word bad about them
-when the President speaks during an House Assembly half get up to applaud him, when they come to speak every one is at attention claping
This is really scary!
I remember the Palestinians having parades in the streets when America was attacked on 9/11.
So why should I care about those terrorist that strap bomb vest on their own children???
Wherefore I also said, I will not drive The Palestinians out from before you; but they shall be as thorns in your sides.... (Judges: 2,3).
How can Netanyahu, therefore, expect to change what has been destined?
Rocky, Israel has watchtowers along the Gaza borders and for years on end the Israeli soldiers manning those towers like to do target practice on Palestinian farmers and their homes, with or without a ceasefire, killing in the process hundreds of Palestinians who were minding their business.
It's never reported in the US media so when Palestinians throw a rocket in response Americans have no clue what's going on.
The entire world knows about this and that's why everyone from the king of Qatar to European and Latin American nations and international organizations keep sending aid over there.
Americans are kept in the dark by their own media and so they keep feeling sorry for themselves and think the entire world is against them and Israel for no good reason. The whole thing is so pathetic it's not even funny.
Get real, folks. For your own good, get real.
@Rockyroad-531554,
You "remember" being hit with propaganda. Jeesh. More than ten years later and no one informed you that that was zionist propaganda? You need to come out of your basement.
Do you remember the dancing Israeli Mossad agents in Liberty Park? The ones that had set up cameras ahead of time to film the planes that were on their way. Yes, they danced and danced and lit cigarette lighters and held them up for the camera smiling with the burning towers in the background. The ones that were given a free pass to escape back to Israel?
Or the Israeli agents that were caught on the bridge to New York with a white van that bomb sniffing dogs found the scent of explosives. The first words out of their mouths when they were pulled over by the police was "The Palestinians are our common enemy". (Hey! come to think of it, that is what YOU posted. Where are you from?)
A person discredits themself and religion by propagating false idealologies.
Here's what God thinks of people who change His word.
Is it any wonder why there is so much unbelief?
It's coming for... for all of you who can't bare to see the truth.... don't read this post. (Or more specifically, to those who complain this is posted to much...well the facts don't change,) hence....
Other than the fact that Muslims haven't killed every
non-Muslim under their domain, there is very little else that they can point to
as proof that theirs is a peaceful, tolerant religion. Where Islam is dominant
(as in the Middle East and Pakistan) religious minorities suffer brutal
persecution with little resistance. Where Islam is in the minority (as in
Thailand, the Philippines and Europe) there is the threat of violence if Muslim
demands are not met. Either situation seems to provide a justification for
religious terrorism, which is persistent and endemic to Islamic
fundamentalism.
The reasons are obvious and begin with the Quran. Few verses
of Islam's most sacred text can be construed to fit the contemporary virtues of
religious tolerance and universal brotherhood. Those that do are earlier
"Meccan" verses which are obviously abrogated by later ones. This is why Muslim
apologists speak of the "risks" of trying to interpret the Quran without their
"assistance" - even while claiming that it is a perfect book.
Far from being mere history or theological construct, the
violent verses of the Quran have played a key role in very real massacre and
genocide. This includes the brutal slaughter of tens of millions of Hindus for
five centuries beginning around 1000 AD with Mahmud of Ghazni's bloody
conquest. Both he and the later Tamerlane (Islam's Genghis Khan) slaughtered an
untold number merely for defending their temples from destruction. Buddhism was
very nearly wiped off the Indian subcontinent. Judaism and Christianity met the
same fate (albeit more slowly) in areas conquered by Muslim armies, including
the Middle East, North Africa and parts of Europe, including today's Turkey.
Zoroastrianism, the ancient religion of a proud Persian people is despised by
Muslims and barely survives in modern Iran.
So ingrained is violence in the religion that Islam has never
really stopped being at war, either with other religions or with itself.
Muhammad was a military leader, laying siege to towns, massacring
the men, raping
their women, enslaving their children, and taking the property of others as his
own. On several occasions he rejected offers of surrender from the besieged
inhabitants and even butchered captives.
He actually inspired his followers to battle when they did not feel it was right
to fight, promising them slaves and booty if they did and threatening them with
Hell if they did not. Muhammad allowed his men to rape traumatized women
captured in battle, usually on the very day their husbands and family members
were slaughtered.
It is important to emphasize that, for the most part, Muslim
armies waged aggressive campaigns, and the religion's most dramatic
military conquests were made by the actual companions of Muhammad in the decades
following his death. The early Islamic principle of warfare was that the
civilian population of a town was to be destroyed (ie. men executed, women and
children taken as slaves) if they defended themselves. Although modern
apologists often claim that Muslims are only supposed to attack in self-defense,
this is an oxymoron that is flatly
contradicted by the accounts of Islamic historians and others that go back
to the time of Muhammad.
Consider the example of the Qurayza Jews, who were completely
obliterated only five years after Muhammad arrived in Medina. Their leader
opted to stay neutral when their town was besieged by a Meccan army that was
sent to take revenge for Muhammad's deadly caravan raids. The tribe killed no
one from either side and even surrendered peacefully to Muhammad after the
Meccans had been turned back. Yet the prophet of Islam had every male member of
the Qurayza beheaded, and every woman and child enslaved, even raping one of the
captives himself (what Muslim apologists might refer to as "same day
marriage").
One of Islam's most revered modern scholars, Sheikh Yusuf
al-Qaradawi, openly sanctions offensive Jihad: "In the Jihad which you are
seeking, you look for the enemy and invade him. This type of Jihad takes place only when the Islamic state is invading other
[countries] in order to spread the word of
Islam and to remove obstacles standing in its way." Elsewhere, he
notes: "Islam has the right to take the initiative…this is God’s religion and
it is for the whole world. It has the right to destroy all obstacles in the form
of institutions and traditions … it attacks institutions and traditions to
release human beings from their poisonous influences, which distort human nature
and curtail human freedom. Those who say that Islamic Jihad was merely for the
defense of the 'homeland of Islam' diminish the greatness of the Islamic way of
life."
The widely respected Dictionary of Islam
defines Jihad as "A religious war with those who are unbelievers in the
mission of Muhammad. It is an incumbent religious duty, established in the
Qur'an and in the Traditions as a divine institution, and enjoined specially for
the purpose of advancing Islam and of repelling evil from Muslims…[Quoting from
the Hanafi school, Hedaya, 2:140, 141.], "The destruction of the sword is
incurred by infidels, although they be not the first aggressors, as appears
from various passages in the traditions which are generally received to this
effect."
Muhammad's failure to leave a clear line of succession
resulted in perpetual internal war following his death. Those who knew him best
first fought to keep remote tribes from leaving Islam and reverting to their
preferred religion (the Ridda or 'Apostasy wars'). Then, within the closer
community, early Meccan converts battled later ones. Hostility developed
between those immigrants who had traveled with Muhammad to Mecca and the Ansar
at Medina who had helped them settle in. Finally there was a violent struggle
within Muhammad's own family between his favorite wife and favorite daughter - a
jagged schism that has left Shias and Sunnis at each others' throats to this
day.
The strangest and most untrue thing that can be said about
Islam is that it is a Religion of Peace. If every standard by which the West is
judged and condemned (slavery, imperialism, intolerance, misogyny, sexual
repression, warfare...) were applied equally to Islam, the verdict would be
devastating. Islam never gives up what it conquers, be it religion, culture,
language or life. Neither does it make apologies or any real effort at moral
progress. It is the least open to dialogue and the most self-absorbed. It is
convinced of its own perfection, yet brutally shuns self-examination and
represses criticism.
This is what makes the Quran's verses of violence so
dangerous. They are given the weight of divine command. While Muslim
terrorists take them as literally as anything else in their holy book, and
understand that Islam is incomplete without Jihad, moderates offer little to
contradict them - outside of opinion. Indeed, what do they have? Speaking of
peace and love may win over the ignorant, but when every twelfth verse of
Islam's holiest book either speaks to Allah's hatred for non-Muslims or calls
for their death, forced conversion, or subjugation, it's little wonder that
sympathy for terrorism runs as deeply as it does in the
broader community - even if most Muslims personally prefer not to interpret
their religion in this way.
Although scholars like Ibn Khaldun, one of Islam's most
respected philosophers, understood that "the holy war is a religious duty,
because of the universalism of the Muslim mission and (the obligation to)
convert everybody to Islam either by persuasion or by force", many other
Muslims are either unaware or willfully ignorant of the Quran's near absence of
verses that preach universal non-violence. Their understanding of Islam comes
from what they are taught by others. In the West, it is typical for believers
to think that their religion must be like Christianity - preaching the New
Testament virtues of peace, love, and tolerance - because Muslims are taught
that Islam is supposed to be superior in
every way. They are somewhat surprised and embarrassed to learn that the
evidence of the Quran and the bloody history of Islam are very much in
contradiction to this.
Others simply accept the violence. In 1991, a Palestinian
couple in America was convicted of stabbing their daughter to death for being
too Westernized. A family friend came to their defense, excoriating the jury
for not understanding the "culture", claiming that the father was merely
following "the religion" and saying that the couple had to "discipline their
daughter or lose respect." (source).
In 2011, unrepentant Palestinian terrorists, responsible for the brutal murders
of civilians, women and children explicitly in
the name of Allah were treated to a luxurious "holy pilgrimage" to Mecca by the
Saudi king - without a single Muslim voice raised in protest.
For their part, Western liberals would do well not to
sacrifice critical thinking to the god of political correctness, or look for
reasons to bring other religion down to the level of Islam merely to avoid the
existential truth that this it is both different and dangerous.
There are just too many Muslims who take the Quran
literally... and too many others who couldn't care less about the violence done
in the name of Islam.
Astounding, blah, blah, blah, dude, blah, blah, blah. Your freaking propaganda is getting old, real old.
alco82,
Yes it is scary, but at some point even the dumbest of Americans will realize what is going on. At that point, the game will be over for the 2.5% of the population that has turned the US into Israel's milking cow
@disabled voter -
You took the first scripture out of context actually. First of all it's an old testament verse, meaning it's practically irrelevant in terms of modern religion, as the old testament is seen more as a historical account of the jews, and by citing so much scripture I assume you know the Old Testament and New are what sepeartes ...well everything.
The verse before you quote in Judges 2:3, you forgot to mention 2:2 where God is asking ... and you shall not make a covenant with the people of this land, but you shall
break down their altars.' Yet you have disobeyed me. Why have you done this?
In reality though, stick with the new testament, once Christ died everything changed, thus all the animal sacrifices or personal in the old testament changes, only the history remains the same and can be also sourced through Egyptian, Roman, and some Greek accounts.
Lastly, God wasn't speaking about the Gazan Militant muslims in your verse of Judges, becuase it predated Islam by a few hundred years. And (since we are working backwards apparently) Judges 2:1 says
And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to
go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your
fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you.
So in reality, even the two verses you've stated asks the Jews, or reminds them, of what happens when they keep their lands divided.
Esam -
The truth doesn't change. But it does sting a little bit eh?
Your rethoric is sickening!! The goal of most arabs to destroy Israel with propaganda through CBN and CNN is doomed!!!
@astounding
I took nothing out of context, but was merely pointing out the poster above who changed the quotation of Judges 2:3
It would be more helpful to everyone if all you people would read the entire thread and comment appropriately.
I made no insuations or commentary about the verses I posted other than to suggest that one must respect God's word.
Do I understand you to suggest that it's alright for people to twist the Bible to support their own views?
Furthermore, the passage in Revelations is in the New Testament, the Jews do not recognize Jesus as the Messiah, and do not recognize the N.T. as authentic.
It's never alright for man to manipulate the scriptures for their own benefit.
I repeat myself once again. Man's mishandling of the Bible results in UNBELIEF!
I mean, really, decades after this conflict has started and Israel is still "learning lessons"??? One of the first actions Israel took in Gaza was by Ariel Sharon who in 1971 bulldozed over 2000 Palestinian homes so Israeli tanks could move into the area and slaughtered 104 Palestinian guerillas.
Things have not got any better since then, have they? Now, all of Gaza is fighting back with bigger and better weapons and Netanyahu won't even dare send his Israeli war criminals there.
The only "lesson" Israel needs to learn is to implement UN resolution 242 and, like they say in NJ, fuhgeddaboudit!
What lessons have they learned? none!
What have they done? they made 1.9 billion people even more angry then they where before. They exposed themselves to more people. more of us have rethought our position on Isreal. More of us are beginning to understand why! Isreal got away with it's lies for decades when there was no internet, when good information was harder to come by. little by little , the propaganda wall crumbles and a new generation asks questions. questions that their parents and grandparents where afraid to ask, lest they be labeled as 'anti-semites". They have probably made Iran more determined to build a bomb. they have given Iran a new rally point to distract those who want change in Iran, the people who tried to out their leaders with demonstrations. They have galvanized the base of those who hate them. As the middle east becomes more industrialized isreal will find that it's neighbors shun them as some people in the western world are doing as we speak. The public relations war is at a turning point.
@Disabled Voter -
Apologies, I actually enjoyed your post. Keep posting more, just post the entire text. I thought it was important that Judges one you posted, to have the two verse which came before...that is all I meant. Because the verse before the one you quoted God is asking an important question, one which dealt with the extermination or handling of a people on their land.
And for the record, yes I do believe you to understand me correctly when I ask you not to twist the Bible, but give the full scripture. Do you disagree that the verses in Judges 2:1-2 do not apply to your own in verse 3?
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a
sword." Matthew 10:34
Jesus said that, and can be interpreted in a number of different ways. (Once scripture is introduced to my soul, does it introduce conflict? Is he referring to the "sword" as he does in the holy armor? Is he meaning literally? All that to prove I understand the twisting of religous passages as well to fit ones needs, I wasn't trying to do that with either of my posts.
I am aware of the differences between Christians and Jews, I wasn't trying to pick a fight.
@Esam- You said:
"decades after this conflict started and Israel is still "learning lessons???"
Really shows your ignorance. If you think this has been going on for just a few decades....well...again...just proves how little you know about this conflict.
You are comparing apples and oranges.
In the US case, you are right.
However, in the case of Israel, it is other way around.
The current land of Israel belonged to Jews . Muslims did what you mentioned (never honored a treaty, pact, truce and then slowly shrink the original inhabitants) and ultimately drove out Jews from Israel.
This article is another joke! They are making two plus two twenty two.
The problem has been from Hamas, Sunni Saudi Islamic hater and killer organization.
Iran's Hezbollah had been quiet. Where did Iran and Hezbollah come in the picture?
Iran can buy or steal nukes from Pakis. What is this big deal about Iran's WMDs?
Similar jokes of WMDs, chemical weapons and so on stories were invented by the partisan media before Iraqi wars.
@astounding...you have no idea what you are saying. First of all the NT is not a New Testament at all. And everything in the Original Testament still stands. You cant even believe Christ without the Old Testament.
Luk 24:25
Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe ALL that the prophets have spoken.
Christ is calling you a fool for your statement. Secondly, you have absolutely no idea who Israel really is.
Rev 3:9
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
fred lamotte actually has a legitimate point, albeit, people like you, irving, who lives in a closet and has done so much wrong in your past, and the past of your ancestors, you can't stand to think of it, so, you deny it, and always say, "it didn't happen," you know, how you believed and voted for Romney, quite foolishly.
Since in your eyes, Muslims, and Islam are all so bad, exactly what do you think of Hitler's religion, and his massive killings, and wanting the "Master White Race," to rule the world? I'd bet you think that's ok.
@HewillruleasGod and disabled voter
By leaving out the Bible in it's entirety, you have just done what Rev 22:18-19 says not to do, and which disabled voter quoted in his earlier post.
By the way, lets not get off topic of Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, Islam as Militant and "lessons learned."
I'd be glad to discuss theology with either of you on a different post or thread, just send it to me or message me or start up a new thread or something.
this entire thing was a TEST of Israel missile defense systems, how they work and how they can be overcome; Iran is taking notes, missiles fired from both sides of Israel(by accounts they have over 100 thousand , will overcome the defense systems), while large Iranian missiles would get through; what other reason for a bombardment of a few days, with no objective to attain !
@mosuluu
I've never advocated any of Hitler's ideologies or practices. What would make you believe I even think a thing as a "Master White Race" exists? This clearly sounds like the thinly veiled attempts of muslims or people leaning left (as your Obama campaign forum avatar suggests you are) to distract away from the truth's posted with linked cited sources of post #1.9.
The problem I have with Islam is that it SPECIFICALLY PREACHES VIOLENCE AGAINST NON MUSLIMS....which is, go figure, closer to Hitler than anything I've said.
There are no "native" peoples of the continent of the Americas if we are to believe conventional wisdom. Simply by being here (or anywhere) first does not grant anyone ownership. We are a world of men and ownership is determined by the ability to hold your ground. This is what Israel is facing today.
fredlamotte? Israel ceded the Gaza as a gesture towards what the Palestinians insisted they wanted and would bring peace, that being the "two state" solution. What the Paslestinians have done is used the land for a military outpost from which they lob thousands of rockets on a regular basis. They don't want peace, they want the extermination of the Jews just as Hitler wanted.
@saxon;
Yes sir there is, it is called acceptance. The main thing that threw Palestine into another spiral was reuniting with a terrorist group(Hamas). Palestenian life was improving in the West Bank until this bonehead move.
Israel did not start this factions outside of the Islamist Hamas did. Hamas was held accountable, rightfully so.
We have thousands of troops and equipment massed of AQAP on an island called Socotra should Iran try anything stupid against Israel. Hopefully the presence alone will work.
Astounding:
Lest YOU forget, the Koran's Roots are from the mother of all lies, the sacrosanct bible. The bible is filled with ethnocentric, supremacist, racist myths. It is filled with contradictions and inaccuracies IF you take the time to read the book in it's entirety. Don't cherry pick, to suit or justify your ways. "The devil can quote the bible to serve his purpose". so many interpretations! so much confusion, BTW: the xians are followers of judaism. Jesus, if he existed was a jew. Never had any intentions of creating a new religion. You chew on that. Gentiles are dog meat according to the jewish texts. we are here to serve the jews.
From a scientific view, how can ANY religion trump reality. we live in a 13.7billion yr. old universe, a 4.5 billion yr old earth. have gone through 5 mass extinctions. man has inhabited the earth from 100k to 250k years, not 6000!! don't justify all this slaughter by the "chosen"people of the Book! It is an antiquated book written by nomadic people of the desesrt, filled with superstitions of a supposedly superior group. The followers of the 3 Abrahamic religions can believe the bible all they want, history proves otherwise. 40 yrs in the desert??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOW! and no Proof!! how about the worldwide flood?? NEVER HAPPENED! Come on guys get your head out of the sand, (Literally)
A lot of the "collapsed by the community" comments are VALID! We are children of the universe! live and let live. Don't make the bible into making it true with the "end days" scenario. We ain't cmin' back, we have but one life to live. NO MOSES! Martin Luther, an anti semite denounced "revelations" as trash. yes,
You are a probe of the bias and ignorant are anti-Semites. According to surveys, Israeli Palestinians are happier living in Israel than in the Palestinian territories. Actually Palestinian receive less help from their Arab brothers than Israel. Three generations of Palestinian hate toward Israel bring consequences, electing a terrorist group as leaders of their country will bring more deaths.
astounding...please stop with the bible crap...what problems has that EVER solved????????????????...all you are doing is entering the same spin the ME has been in all their lives...how dumb
ayeinfidel-
Actually the Quran does not have it's roots in the Bible. Where the Bible was written by many men, even if you don't believe in what the Bible says...that is fact.... the Quran was the vision of one man. A man that endorses beheadings, rapings, marriage to seven year olds and everything in between.
The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with
nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with
commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be
hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called
'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join
the slaughter.
Unlike nearly all of the Old
Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly
open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of
the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah,
and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.
Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy
book's many calls to violence according to what their own moral preconceptions
find justificable. Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments
that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny.
Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people,
but bad ideology.
Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate
or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued
until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed.
Muhammad's own martial legacy - and that of his companions - along with the
remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran have produced a trail of blood
and tears across world history.
Quran
(9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold
that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor
acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book,
until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
"People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. This was one of the
final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military
expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the
Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other
people and faiths.
Bukhari
(52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until
you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will
say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
Muslim
(1:30) - "The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight
against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but
Allah."
Tabari 9:69 "Killing
Unbelievers is a small matter to us" The words of Muhammad, prophet of
Islam.
Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 992: - "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill
those who disbelieve in Allah." Muhammad's instructions to his men prior to
a military raid.
Yeah...thanks... But I'll go ahead and keep believing what the Quran actually says instead of what you tell people it says.
ayeinfidel-
Also, um Jesus said "Upon this rock I will build my church." There goes your theory (not backed up of course by any cited or sourced material) of Christ not wanting to establish a religion. And if you read the Bible in it's entirety ....which you have clearly not done, you'll come to the writings of Paul...(that's an apostle of Jesus in case you didn't know) wrote to different Churches in Romans, Chorinthians, ..etc explaining the "new rules."
Esam at 1.6. What you said is absolutely False, there is no Truth in what you said. and the posts thereafter. Your doom and gloom propaganda is just that. False, propaganda. You may get Some or a few to listen to what you say, because you make it sound so good. If a person Lies long enough, they themselves actually believe it's the truth. You lie to yourself till you believe it. And think making the lies and false crap Sound good, others will believe it. But keep it up, its entertaining to watch someone pushing lies, crap and the doom, gloom propaganda.
@roadlesstraveled
Okay, you win... I'll stop quoting the Bible.....
The Quran:
Quran
(2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of
the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of
Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they
desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until
persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah." The historical
context of this passage is not defensive warfare, since Muhammad and
his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by
their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in
that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later
did). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus
disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and
oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The actual
Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results
from unbelief or temptation. Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that
violence is being authorized until "religion is for Allah" - ie.
unbelievers desist in their unbelief.
Quran
(2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth
and knoweth all things."
Quran
(2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed
for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which
is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah
knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence
can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only
in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time.
From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad
was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding
merchant caravans for loot.
Quran
(3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible
agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to
help."
Quran
(3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers,
for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no
authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes
Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly
believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').
Quran
(4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this
world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he
victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are
unlike the early Christians, led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are
killed in battle, as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause
of Allah. Here is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.
Quran
(4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"
Quran
(4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus
be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until
they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn
renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case)
take no friends or helpers from their ranks."
Quran
(4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no
hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and
their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight
with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in
Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He
distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This
passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting
them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the
modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a
spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is
clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically
disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to
be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and
this is reflected in other translations of the verse).
Quran
(4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer
pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing
an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?
Quran
(5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His
messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should
be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on
opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for
them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous
chastisement"
Quran
(8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve.
Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No
reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.
Quran
(8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle,
turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them,
unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath
incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's
end."
Quran
(8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder,
unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" Some translations
interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this
word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for 2:293, also).
The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj.
Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since
Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also
acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to
destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence
the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for
Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of
the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further
explains that "Allah must have no rivals."
Quran
(8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to
strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."
Quran
(8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can
outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all
thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay
the enemy of Allah and your enemy."
Quran
(8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."
Quran
(9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the
idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie
in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay
the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the
best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam (prayer
(salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five
Pillars). This popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the
context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since
the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack. Had they
been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a
duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months).
Quran
(9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them
to disgrace..."
Quran
(9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with
their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's
sight. These are they who are triumphant." The "striving" spoken of here is
Jihad (Arabic).
Quran
(9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold
that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor
acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book,
until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
"People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. This was one of the
final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military
expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the
Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other
people and faiths.
Quran
(9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians
say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they
imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how
they are turned away!"
Quran
(9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye
are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do
ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of
this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish
you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a
warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.
Quran
(9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your
wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but
knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42)
- "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would
(all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed)
on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in
self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long
distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case,
according to the historians).
Quran
(9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the
hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the
destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims
that they are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter.
It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside
the faith.
Quran
(9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and
fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and
it is they who will prosper."
Quran
(9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their
goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His
cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the
Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than
Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the
achievement supreme."
Quran
(9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near
to you and let them find in you hardness."
Quran
(17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to
the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word
proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction." Note that
the crime is moral transgression, and the punishment is "utter destruction."
(Before ordering the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden first issued Americans an
invitation to Islam).
Quran
(18:65-81) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor
killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the
family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story
(which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source) tells of Moses
encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem to
make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later
explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74).
However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would
"grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude." He was killed so that
Allah could provide them a 'better' son. (Note: This is one reason why honor
killing is sanctioned by Sharia. Reliance of the Traveler (Umdat al-Saliq) says
that punishment for murder is not applicable when a parent or grandparent kills
their offspring (o.1.1-2).)
Quran
(21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their
fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually
reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they
who will win?"
Quran
(25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against
them with the utmost strenuousness..." "Strive against" is Jihad -
obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that
this is a Meccan verse.
Quran
(33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease,
and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against
them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they
will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter." This
passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in
other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to
"fight in the way of Allah" (3:167)
and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which
include Jews and Christians 5:51-52),
and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against
Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers. It is worth noting that the victims
are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do. If this
passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why
it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations.
Quran
(47:3-4) - "Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who
believe follow the truth from their lord. Thus does Allah set forth form men
their lessons by similitude. Therefore when you meet in battle those who
disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make
(them) prisoners," Those who reject Allah are to be subdued in battle. The
verse goes on to say the only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is
in order to to test the faithfulness of Muslims. Those who kill pass the test.
"But if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution
from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with
others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their
deeds be lost."
Quran
(47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye
should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with
you,"
Quran
(48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the
lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso
obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which
rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom."
Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual
struggle.' Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted? This verse
also says that those who do not fight will suffer torment in hell.
Quran
(48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are
hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves"
Islam is not about treating everyone equally. There are two
very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status. Also the
word used for 'hard' or 'ruthless' in this verse shares the same root as the
word translated as 'painful' or severe' in verse 16.
Quran
(61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way" Religion of
Peace, indeed! This is followed by (61:9):
"He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the
religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even
though the infidels may resist."
Quran
(61:10-12) - "O ye who believe! Shall I lead you to a bargain that will
save you from a grievous Penalty?- That ye believe in Allah and His Messenger,
and that ye strive (your utmost) in the Cause of Allah, with your property and
your persons: That will be best for you, if ye but knew! He will forgive you
your sins, and admit you to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, and to beautiful
mansions in Gardens of Eternity." This verse was given in battle. It uses
the Arabic word, Jihad.
Quran
(66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites,
and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end."
The root word of "Jihad" is used again here. The context is clearly holy
war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who
call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.
From the Hadith:
Bukhari
(52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until
you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will
say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
Bukhari
(52:256) - The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack
the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and
children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are
from them (i.e. pagans)." In this command, Muhammad establishes that it is
permissible to kill non-combatants in the process of killing a perceived enemy.
This provides justification for the many Islamic terror bombings.
Bukhari
(52:220) - Allah's Apostle said... 'I have been made victorious with
terror'
Abu
Dawud (14:2526) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things are
the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, "There is no
god but Allah" and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and
not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be
performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day
the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist)
Abu
Dawud (14:2527) - The Prophet said: Striving in the path of Allah (jihad)
is incumbent on you along with every ruler, whether
he is pious or impious
Muslim
(1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight
against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad
is the messenger of Allah
Bukhari
(8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people
till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say
so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then
their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with
them except legally."
Muslim
(1:30) - "The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight
against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but
Allah."
Bukhari
(11:626) - [Muhammad said:] "I decided to order a man to lead the
prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses
for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes."
Muslim
(1:149) - "Abu Dharr reported: I said: Messenger of Allah, which of the
deeds is the best? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: Belief in Allah and Jihad in
His cause..."
Muslim
(20:4645) - "...He (the Messenger of Allah) did that and said: There is
another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one
hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to
the height of the heaven from the earth. He (Abu Sa'id) said: What is that act?
He replied: Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!"
Muslim
(20:4696) - "the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: 'One
who died but did not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any desire (or
determination) for Jihid died the death of a hypocrite.'"
Muslim
(19:4321-4323) - Three separate hadith in which Muhammad shrugs over the
news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against
unbelievers. His response: "They are of them (meaning the enemy)."
Muslim
(19:4294) - "When the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed
anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him... He
would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against
those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war... When you meet your enemies
who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to
any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any
harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them
and desist from fighting against them... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand
from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your
hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them.
Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet
declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power." Ashraf was a poet,
killed by Muhammad's men because he insulted Islam. Here, Muhammad widens the
scope of his orders to kill. An innocent Jewish businessman was then slain by
his Muslim partner, merely for being non-Muslim.
Tabari 9:69 "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us" The
words of Muhammad, prophet of Islam.
Tabari 17:187 "'By God, our religion (din) from which we have
departed is better and more correct than that which these people follow. Their
religion does not stop them from shedding blood, terrifying the roads, and
seizing properties.' And they returned to their former religion." The words
of a group of Christians who had converted to Islam, but realized their error
after being shocked by the violence and looting committed in the name of Allah.
The price of their decision to return to a religion of peace was that the men
were beheaded and the woman and children enslaved by the caliph Ali.
Ibn Ishaq/Hisham
327: - “Allah said, ‘A
prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven
from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the
ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the
religion.’”
Ibn Ishaq/Hisham
990: - Lest anyone think that
cutting off someone's head while screaming 'Allah Akbar!' is a modern creation,
here is an account of that very practice under Muhammad, who seems to
approve.
Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 992:
- "Fight everyone in the way
of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah." Muhammad's instructions
to his men prior to a military raid.
...know what I'm sayin'?
astounding, are you sitting down? Please do, I've some news for you... I come from a Palestinian Christian family based in the village of Abud nearby Ramallah where we own some 17 acres of land with two homes on it. It's a village founded by a higher up in the Byzantine empire sometime around 400ad and that we now share with Palestinian Muslims.
astounding... hey, wake up. Oh, the poor fellow just fainted. Reality is too much for him to handle.
By 1946 all the countries that surround Palestine had gained their independence and delineated their borders in their respective constitutions.
That, in itself, defined Palestine.
Never mind the name was first coined by the Greek historian Herodotus around 400BC, never mind every map drawn ever since called the area Palestine, never mind the British calling their administration of that territory the Mandate for Palestine in which article 25 makes it clear no other territories will be added to it, including Transjordan for which the British established a totally separate administration for it.
And never mind the cities of Jerusalem, Meggido, Ashkelon, Jericho, Hebron, Shiloh, Beershebah, Bethel, etc. were ALL FOUNDED, BUILT AND CREATED BY THE CANAANITES AT LEAST 800 YEARS BEFORE ANY JEWS SET FOOT ON THEM.
Most Jews who lived in Palestine before the 1948 War came over AFTER WW2.
When the Arabs came to our aid during that war it was after the Zionist terrorist groups had already expelled over 300,000 Palestinians. These terror groups were so ruthless they managed to expel an additional 500,000 Palestinians and erase over 400 Palestinian villages and towns even after the Arabs intervened.
The state of Israel was established with the help of its terror groups (the Irgun, the Hagannah, the Lehi, the Stern Gang, etc) all of whom had members who either were elected as Prime Ministers of Israel, or chosen to became members of the cabinet by the ruling parties.
Israel didn't have a Prime Minister who was born in Israel until 1996, and by then 7 of the 9 PMs it had were all born outside of Palestine.
The reason we didn't establish Palestine when Gaza was under Egyptian control and the West Bank under Jordanian control was because we wanted to keep the integrity of Palestine as articulated in the 1964 PLO Charter:
"Article 21. The Palestine people believes in the principle of justice, freedom, sovereignty, self-determination, human dignity, and the right of peoples to practice these principles. It also supports all international efforts to bring about peace on the basis of justice and free international co-operation."
"Article 22. The People of Palestine believe in peaceful coexistence on the basis of legal existence, for there can be no coexistence with aggression, nor can there be peace with occupation and colonialism."
And even if we did establish a state back then Israel would have gone ahead with its goal of conquering all of Palestine and "transfering the Palestinians" as they've been saying in everyone of their Zionist manisfestos since the late 1800's, starting with The Jewish State by Theordor Herzl.
Damn if we do, and damn if we don't.
The best peace offer Israel ever made would have that country in complete control of all the borders of Palestine, all of its airspace, all of its coastline, and over 80% of its water resources.
International law calls for the end to all military occupation within reasonable time regardless of how the occupied people feel about it, including Hamas.
Hamas is a political party just like all the other Israeli political parties that call for the expulsion of Palestinians or the prevention of a Palestinian state and that run in every Israeli election and have been part of pretty much ever Israeli cabinet.
Hamas is made up of people who have been born into a ruthless military occupation, have gone to school, married and work under it and who're now watching their children and grandchildren and great granchildren being born, going to school, marrying and working (if at all possible) under the same ruthless military occupation.
You gotta have some balls to invalidate our existance in Palestine, question our humanity, tell us what our history is and is not, who we are and who we are not, and what belongs and doesn't belong to us.
THE ORIGINAL SIN
"If we had invested in the Arab problem one tenth of the energy, the passion, the ingenuity, the resourcefulness which we developed in order to gain the support of Britain, France, the US and Weimar Germany, our destiny in the development of Israel may have been quite different. We were not ready for compromises; we did not regard it as a major problem. We did not make sufficient efforts to get, if not the full agreement of the Arabs, at least their acquiescence to a Jewish state, which I think would have been possible. That was the original sin."
Dr. Nahum Goldmann,
President of the World Jewish Congress
Esam, go crawl back under your rock called "ignorance". Any religion that tents it's females as second class humans is disgusting and vile. Any so called "religion" that can get people on their knees with their rears in the air 5 times a day, 7 days a week is way way more than a religion, it's called indoctrination. Look at the Islamic world compared to the rest, your third world pal and always will be. Just keep half your population, females, in servitude. Now put that in your reality pipe Esam.
Esam -
I don't buy any of your crap. You're a muslim, or pro-muslim at least. If not, you sure give "palestinians" a bad name. Tell me this...does your Quran and Holy Books preach what I said or does it not? Are those texts accurate or are they not?
If you're a Christian, or come from a Christian family, as you say you do, you are an insult to them and yourself by your posts, no matter if you live in Ramallah or Michigan.
Funny you mention a village founded by the Byzantines which you live in, hey could you tell me how that came to be predominately muslim? Oh that's right, Islamic armies invaded and took it... I mean ...if you're so keen on history and all.
You guys can't be this much in denial, can you? This is really sad, I feel sorry for you. I really do. Have a good day.
Damn! Israel isn't going to finish what the palestinians started? WTF.....I was hoping they'd finish this once and for all and then move their way to iran and do something with them and their nuclear facilities. I need to quit working so much and watch more news! It's a damn shame Israel is lifting their foot off hamas' neck
I didn't say you believe a "Master White Race" exists, what I said is below:
Since in your eyes, Muslims, and Islam are all so bad, exactly what do you think of Hitler's religion, and his massive killings, and wanting the "Master White Race," to rule the world? I'd bet you think that's ok.
=and the more I read your rantings, the more I believe you think all of Islam should be destroyed, just as Hitler thought all of you (Jews) should be destroyed.
OK, I've got it now, you're a right leaning war-mongeringJew who hates anything Muslim/Islam.
Believe it or not, Christianity is no better, Islam does what it says, while Christians talk out the sides of their necks about brotherly love, if not, how can you explain White Christians holding Bibles in their hands, watching, and cheering black men hung, and set on fire right here in America, the attempted annihilation of American Native Indians?
Me, I'm actually an Independent who honestly believe President Obama is the better choice of the two you voted for, i.e, McCain-2008, Romney-2012.
“Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion--several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven....
What did Israel learn? Hopefully NOT to trust Obama!
Protests rock Egypt after Morsi seizes sweeping new powers: report
http://flashtrafficblog.wordpress.com/2012/11/23/protests-rock-egypt-after-morsi-seizes-sweeping-new-powers-report/
@moshuluu
You know Obama is in office right? He won the election....you can drop all the hatred towards whoever you have a problem with. I'm glad you know who I voted for by the way.
Jews is a racial term and Islam is a religious term...so to advocate the extermination of either ...well, they are different...one is race and religion , one is religion.
I think there should be a united Israel for the Jews.
Islam cannot tolerate any religion other than their own, hence the posts on the Quran. Believe what you will, that is their verses, I didn't pull that out of a tree. The same Quran over there is the same one everywhere, believe what you want it to say.
My Goodness! Newsvine is turning into nothing more than a propaganda machine...not changing anyone's views but at least while typing out the propaganda nobody has time to man a rifle.
The lesson Israel learned is one that has been known to them from Biblical times.
The rampant Anti-Semitism of Judaism---
So, while this rampant disease is going on throughout the Word in larger numbers than ever, Israel, Jews, have to be on the alert--another Holocaust like that in Europe and Germany may be on the rise again. There are still many Hitlers among us.
Israel will take care of themselves; they know they are the Target of all World Countries. Jews have endured Persecution from the time of Moses---they are survivalists, have a true value for life, unlike the other Middle Eastern Countries. The will to live will keep them disappearing.
It is truly disheartening to read some of the comments here re: Jews, and the hatred for them, and Israel. Remember, hatred also includes other minorities---they go hand in hand. Bigots are everywhere.
Israel will Survive without the babble I read on this board. Brilliance, education, an Exceptional Military, along with their Leader will never let Israel the State die.
Jews have made great contributions to Society in all Fields of Education; your life may depend on it--
@Marchant,
You wrote:
and at first was surprised that someone else was tuned it...but alas, then I continued reading the rest of your post and it is the typical, blah, blah, blah...
The zionists send a false and hateful message - one that IS anti-semitic - that jews are oppressors, thieves and murderers. ZIONISTS create this message. An anti-semetic message. That is what they tell the world, and it is FALSE and HATEFUL. Zionists should knock it off and end their oppression of Palestinians, end their confiscation of Palestinian land and stop with the endless war making.
But no, we get messages like yours that show zionists and pro-zionists (which are you? try to be honest, please) make themselves deaf to the suffering of others and display their bigotry towards gentiles (and if not bigotry then cheap rhetoric).
@ Essam
I'm curious as to what your solution would be to the Israel / Palistine problem? Please base this solution on the fact that neither side is going away.
Like I said, implement UN resolution 242 so there can be a two-state solution. The Oslo Accord was based on that, the Arab League 2003 peace proposal is based on it, too. And I like to remind you Hamas signed on to the Arab League peace proposal.
So getting out of Gaza is pretty much 50% of the job, now Israel needs to do the same in the West Bank. And I should also mention the Israeli peace proposal in 2000 was pretty good except they insisted on keeping control of all our borders (who and what goes in and out), control of all our airspace, all our sea coast, and control of 80% of our water resources.
But that's not what UN resolution 242 is about. We need to become sovereign and therefore have our land and also control of our borders, airspace and water resources.
Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah and fanatics in Israel’s neighborhood are getting ready to take on Israel. They know that they have only one chance at it and they will use everything they’ve got to destroy Israel. Similarly, we are faced with same scenario. We will have only one chance to rid the world of terror sponsoring nations and their subjects. What ever anyone thinks, about our participation, we will be there boots and all, side by side with Israel. We have no other “workable” options. We will prevail!!!!
wtw, "one chance"??? WTF are you talking about? This is the area that has the oldest human civilization in the world. Where agriculture was first practiced by humans, where laws were first written by humans, were cities were first build by humans.
Trust me, we'll get more than "one chance". The Crusaders lasted 200 years, the Turks lasted 400 years, the British couldn't stay longer than 50 years, and now Israel.
That, too, shall be dealt with chance after chance after chance after chance.
PALESTINE FOREVER AND FOREVER PALESTINE!!!!!!!!!
@ astounding
Believe what you want, but what you say does not make it perfect, or the only way of things. You have your beliefs, I have mine. Israel, in this particular mode, particularly Netanyahu, is a war-monger. Seems to me Netanyahu only went into this attack mode because who he backed in the American Presidential race loss.
Netanyahu was relying on Romney to finance their war, not only with missiles and money, but also with America's young, poor, men/women, why? Romney does not believe the 1%ers should fight wars, let the 47%ers who he cares little about fight them for him.
Enough of this, undoubtedly you don't care much for Muslim/Islam , and I noticed you did not respond to the hypocrite Christians I posted about.
" ... Man's mishandling of the Bible results in UNBELIEF! ... "
No. It results in fearful, hateful overzealous religious fanatics. Fanatics that use the Bible to justify their fear, hate and bigotry. For proof, just look the Religious Right in America.
What would Jesus do if here today? According to the Bible ....
He healed the sick. He would have voted FOR "Obamacare".
He kicked the money changers out of the temple. He would have voted AGAINST TARP.
He fed the masses. He would be FOR Food Stamps.
Oh my.
OH MY!
Jesus was a Socialist, Marxist, Communist, Nigeran, who is a secret Muslim! One wants to take your guns away from you and who would participate in the war on Christmas.
Lol. Don't believe me? Then when he gets here, just ask him. But don't be surprised when he gives you the finger.
Israel is nothing but a liability to the US and an enormous drain of our resources. We continuously pour money in this horrible country to pay for their settlements that the world has declared as illegal and oppressive. Our government gives them whatever they want because Jews control the FED and our congress is under the influence of AIPAC. Jews, Muslim haters and Christian Fundamentalists will not agree, but this is the way it really is. The needs of my country come first, even above God's supposed chosen people. Just because many people have valid reasons not to like Muslims is not a justification to kiss Israel's ass in blind support. This is how we are being manipulated and most of you are sheep and easily will follow without putting any real thought into what is happening. The best thing that could happen for the US is that Iran removes Israel from the planet and rids the US of its biggest parasite without starting WWIII.
Lying fascist pig.
irving, this is the third article that I've seen with this exact same post from him. Nothing but spam and the funny thing is, a vote appears immediately with the post.
@alkintuc-2361780,
Remove your last sentence and then what you wrote is a "keeper".
Also, whether or not zionists are "The Chosen People", doesn't mean we "support" their worst nature.
One doesn't "support" an alchoholic by enabling their baser "needs" and giving them booze.
What "The Chosen People" NEED is sanity and a sane partner that does not feed their warmongering, oppression, theft and murder. NO! Do not enable Israel's worst nature, rather truly SUPPORT them by showing them a better way.
A better way??? You mean like indiscriminately lobbing rockets on a regular basis??? How about taking people suspected as spies, laying them down in the street, shooting them in front of children and dragging a dead body attached to a motorcycle accompanied by other bike riders along with yelling, shooting. How about blowing up a bus??? Could you mean teaching hatred and terrorism to small children???
Is this the better way that you mean??? No, thanks. Israel does just fine the way they do things now although I'll admit that they show way too much patience and restraint.
J.P.
As long as Netanyahu is in power, Israel's worst nature will direct its actions.
As long as those terrorist Palestinians keep shooting rockets and murdering innocent civilians peace will not happen
Israel wants peace!
chefaz,
How would you expect people to react when you bulldoze down their homes and build security walls through their towns as Israel continues its expansion into Palestinian occupied land. The supporters of Israel like you never want to mention this side of the story.
rockyroad,
What Israel really wants is to expand into Palestinian occupied land, not peace. Who are you fooling.
Israel has watchtowers along the Gaza borders and for years on end the Israeli soldiers manning those towers like to target practice on Palestinian farmers and their homes, with or without a ceasefire, killing in the process hundreds of Palestinians who were minding their business.
It's never reported in the US media so when Palestinians throw a rocket in response Americans have no clue what's going on.
The entire world knows about this and that's why everyone from the king of Qatar to European and Latin American nations and international organizations keep sending aid over there.
Americans are kept in the dark by their own media and so they keep feeling sorry for themselves and think the entire world is against them and Israel for no good reason. The whole thing is so pathetic it's not even funny.
Get real, folks. For your own good, get real.
esam,
That's because our media is controlled by those who do not want us to know the truth about all the injustices inflicted on the Palestinians.
Esam & alkintuc-
Do your history man and stop being so ignorant.
Islam is a Militant religion and has a war with every major religion on the planet.
The fact that they even cling to East Jerusalem is a sign of this. So is anyone having to refer to them as "moderate" or "extreme" .... I hate to burst your bubble, but the same Quran the "Extremists" use ...yes even in Palestine and Iran... is the same Quran everywhere.
It's never reported in the US media so when Palestinians throw a rocket in response Americans have no clue what's going on.
That of course, is a quote from your page and shows how ignorant you really are. Ever hear of the Associated Press? How about.... news anchors on the ground. How bout liberal media.
I suppose it's an accident muhammed slipped and fell in between a 8 year old girls legs and consumated his marriage to her as well eh? Or that Muhammed's axe slipped a few thousand times as necks were neatly aligned for him for those who didn't believe.
The fact that you even have the right to disagree with the majority on here, proves that you know nothing ....or barely little.... about Islam. Go live in Iran if you feel as you do. (By the way, NON-Muslim) means they don't care if you're atheist, agnostic, baptist, or whatever....head will come off.
A NON-Muslim cannot even pray in modern day saudi arabia...it's a death penalty. (Do your research.)
The holy city of Islam is Mecca not Jerusalem, the only reason Gaza and the West Bank with East Jerusalem as their capital is being occupied is to keep Israel from becoming a unified Jewish state, the only one in the region...
Muslims can't stand the thought of Israel, Jews, and Christians. Go listen to the "puppet president" of Iran tell ya how he's gonna exterminate the Jews or wipe Israel off the face of the earth.
Average active religious population for Islamic countries - 95%
Average active religious population for Christian countries - 25%
Why? BECAUSE ISLAM IS A FORCED RELIGION!
Sniff, sniff... Ewww, what's that aweful smell?! Oh, it's astounding talking out of his ass again!
astounding
you are twisting my comments. I never defended Islam. you can not use your arguements as a justification for what the government of Israel is doing to expand it's borders into territory occupied by Palestinian's for many, many generations . all your garbage rhetoric is only intended to conceal the cause of the conflict which are the settlements
Astounding, let me tell you a true story.
A group of terrorists kidnapped an English soldier. They strangled him to death. they then hung his lifeless body from a tree. they placed and IED under him which took the legs of the man that found the hanging soldier. This event happened in 1947. the terror group was the IRGUN. The Irgun was the military arm of the HAGANAH. the HAGANAH where the founders. One of it's members was a guy named Begin who became a prime minister of Isreal. He also was found guilty of the terror bombing of the King David hotel which claimed the life of an English child and injured many. Isreal was the father of terrorism. So now they attack their own mirror, Hamas and Hezbollah. Talk about history repeating itself. One of the founders, Dr. Karl Weiss, warned "terror breeds terror". and right he was.
So many fools, who cannot do their own history and make up their own minds.
NONE of you have researched much about Islam.
You cry about 1 or 2 terrorists or beheadings here....but you forget about all the walking onto busses with explosives strapped, innocent people dying for no reason other than a gullible muslim was talked into "70 Virgins" if he pulls a ripcord tied to the same vest once on a bus full of so many people.
"Let me tell you a story" pffft....
Three thousand were killed when Muslims flew planes into the world trade towers...all innocent lives....I wonder how filled with garbage and all the pro-islam whining this site would be if that many muslims were killed in the West Bank or Gaza in one blow.....that's not to mention all the others....
Israel has a right to be it's own nation, a nation amongst enemies. You guys are advocating KEEPING militants inside west bank and gaza, why can't Israel have it's own united nation, a nation of Jews and let the arabs go back to any of the countries surrounding Israel? Quite simple really, muslims keep Israel from becoming unified, they win.
You must not have seen the articles of all the Gazans standing on rubble proclaiming victory....why is that.
You can't blame everything on Jews on what the US has been doing.
Sunni Saudis and co, oil companies, Christian right and their lobbyists invented Iraqi wars and the later miseries from all sides.
Jewish lobby was not that much active during those days. Even now Bushes, McCains, Romneys and others start dancing when Saudis, oil companies, Christian right and their lobbyists start dancing.
Bush and many of his advisors did not know much about Iraq and Afghanistan. Or else which sane leader will open two toughest battle fronts at the same time?
Now the same gang along with media are inventing new stories on Iran and Syria. Yesterday, Hezbollah was supposed to have 40000 rockets and today it is in between 100000 to 200000.
What have we in Syria, Iran and other places?
In those places Shiites (led by Iran) and Sunnis (led by Saudis) are battling on whose Allah is greater.
Just like Iraq, Sunni Saudis and co, oil companies, Christian right and their lobbyists are trying to outsource their dirty jobs in Syria and Iran to the US, British, French and other allies.
Who, with little sense, will impose sanctions on Iranian oil and manipulate oil prices higher and higher just like during Iraqi wars?
Syria and Iran are not our jobs and just keep miles away!
alkintuc-2367180
Dont you have some blown up buildings to attend to today? Dead to bury?
Try peace.....you might like it!
Our media only care when Israel retaliate for the hundreds of rockets sent to Israel from Palestinian territory, Palestinians bombing is everyday business. Good job from Israel killing the leaders of Hamas. Palestine people are suffering the consequences of their own destiny, Palestinian territories belong in the past to Egypt and Syria after the 6 days war, those countries abandom their brothers Arabs, leaving in refuges camps after they lost their territories, with not help from Syria nor from Egypt they are the ones responsible for the life of Palestinians , they are the ones that start the 6 days war.
Yeah, no kidding, huh. In some crazy reality Hamas declares themselves the winners. 3 days after Israel started operations to stop the rocket fire, Hamas was whining to the UN to make Israel stop. And these rockets from Iran. They must have forgot the guidance chips, or else Iran really sucks at making rockets.
Oh please, Hamas. Don't control yourself. Start firing rockets again. Please!
The article had the big sub-heading:
What Israel really needs is not support from another warmongering country
but a genuine desire for peace and security.
And THAT is not bought with oppression, blockades, embargoes, starving out people, assassinations, theft thru building settlements, etc, etc.
If Hamas considered that a victory I can't wait to see what they consider a defeat! Go Israel!
Wait a minute!
In the US, Jewish lobby is strong. US has strong support for Israel due to strong Jewish lobby. No two opinions here.
At the same time, there are Sunni Saudis and co, oil companies, Christian right and their lobbyists working on their own agendas.
Hamas, a Sunni Saudi Islamic hater and killer front, is the primary culprit in the current Hamas vs Israel flare up.
During this flare up, Sunni Saudis quietly worked through Hamas and MB and Salaffi ruling party in Egypt.
Turkey, (a strong and strategic NATO ally when required and a big dancer in Syria), Qatar and other Sunni Arab League rulers openly supported Hamas.
What do these Sunni Saudis, Turkey, Qatari and other seventh century despotic, barbaric, beastly and bigoted Sunni rulers think of themselves?
Are the others a bunch of fools to jump and dance when they start dancing on Syria, Iran and other places?
In Bahrain, Shiites can't have their own Shiite ruler. Saudi Arabia has to determine who will rule Shiite majority Bahrian.
In Syria, again Sunni Saudi Arabia has decided that Syria should have a Sunni ruler and non-Sunni Assad has to be removed.
Sunni Saudis and co have got Islamist seventh century desert dancers Turkey's Erdogan and his party members dancing to their tunes.
See the different dances they have been playing in Syria to overthrow Assad.
Sunni Syrian rebels are supported by Sunni haters and killers, MB, al Qaida, Salaffi from all over.
In Iran, new dances just like before Iraqi wars are unfolding!
Take it or leave: days of Sunni House of Saud, and other Sunni ME rulers are numbered. Not many can save them!
Israel imposed so many restrictions on Hamas and Fatah that most of the crops in Israel went to waste - the Hamas and Fatah are Israels Mexican laborers. Just like Americans don't understand the role Mexicans play in the U S, Israelis don't get the role Hamas and Fatah play in their country...can't have your cake and eat it too.
I love how so many try and make this a religious issue - so this is how God's children play together?
Better question; did America learn anything?
Fatha and Hamas are terrorist groups , their are not like Mexican laborers, they are like Mexico without Borders or Chicanos for California a Mexican Territory. At least Mexicans do not kill people , they are more civilized.
I just hope we don't have to get involved here. If we have to give them some money, then so be it. I would really rather not considering all we have going on here but its not like congress to ignore their arms dealer pals lobbying for war funds. But anything is better than our lives being put on the line for a dubious ally.
so Israel learned a more efficient way to kill people...sick
Israel learn how to target the and kill the head of terrorist groups like US does in the rest of meddle east. Lest casualties , no innocent lives killed , just the head of the snake.
As Obummer is paying every political faction that voted for him, he will have to pay the Jews. The previous administration did not transfer thousands of the huge bunker busters to the Indian Ocean outpost on Diego Garcia not to be used against Iran.
The same bunker buster bombs were sent to Israel and the equipment to modify the U.S. jets that the U.S sold to Israel so that they could carry the bunker busters directly to Iran.
It is not a question of "IF" but "WHEN".
One should take note that Israel did NOT attack the huge modern shopping center that was built in Gaza. That would have been high on MY LIST of targets.
How about what fighting taught the Palestinians and Iran about war with Israel?? Iron Dome? You'll kill less Israelis....Precision weapons?? You'll die more than Israelis....
And of course it was Obama that put on pressure for a cease fire..I mean come on, no other leader wanted one..Just Obama......
todayopinion - No question one of your targets would be a shopping center, because you are a war mongering Zionist Jew, with the mentality of a war criminal, who thinks all other people are beneath you. You show us what a Zionist really wants to do with it's American supplied weapons. The Zionist Jew is no better than the man called Adolph Hitler.
Wow Ralph..Anger issues? Hate Jews much?
Rob, the Jewish people are not innocent in these wars with the Palestinians since the Jews took land that did not belong to them. If Israel would agree to acknowledging the existence of a Palestinian state tensions would calm down. Is it greed by the government of Israel that prevents this from happening?
Intellect...Put down the rosebud colored glasses and do some research on the area....
After WW2 Albert Einstein condemned the newspapers and universities of Europe for their cowardly silence, as Adolf Hitler accelerated to power. Where are the defenders of truth and free speech?, he questioned.
I see the same irresponsible media frenzy happening today as radical Muslim powers throughout the world are slowly beginning to align themselves against Israel. They are banking on the ignorant general western public who lap up the spoon-fed hatred against Jews greedily and without research, debate or defiance. NBC news media reports that the persons killed in Israel were "splattered all over the place". Do they have no sense of decency? One of them was a pregnant Israeli women, which of course there is no mention of that. During the conflict, I was watching a report where they were attending to an injured child in a Gaza hospital and there was 1 doctor and 10 cameras! Really? What are their motives? Greed, greed greed without a care for the real victims on both sides. Dig deep for the truth people, learn the difference between unbiased news and tabloid reporting.
Here is a funny example of what I am talking about.
The ugliest newspaper in Britian
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOgV6Fvc8wc
Rob, no rose colored glasses here. There are no innocents in wars except for the civilians. If Israel wants all the land let them fight it out without our intervention. If they want peace then settle with the Palestinians and recognize them as a state. It is quite simple. What does the Israelis government have to fear since they are a nuclear state?
We, the US, pour too much welfare money into Israel and it must stop. Every time a presidential election comes for that country they start a conflict with an assassination or other aggressive action. It seems our country had an election for the first time in decades that a war was not initiated to bolster their standing. For the record I am not a fan of Israel for many sound reasons. Israel has been at war with their neighbors since the land grab war in the forties.
They knew that there would never be peace in the region once they took a highly controversial piece of the Holy Land of all these Believers. I am tired of my tax dollars going to Israel as welfare payments when they have no intention of suing for peace since it is not in their best interest. Maybe you should take off the rose colored glasses so you can see there are three sides to all of this nonsense in the Middle East. I for one am not fooled by all of this BS that happens in a cyclic fashion.
Like I said...Do a bit of research and maybe you'll stop the "oh they stole the land" nonsense....Then again maybe you won't....
To Oskar,
Mexicans more civilized!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats wierd, the killing of innocent people in the US that happens everyday is conducted by Mexican drug cartels or some Chicanos. Selling drugs to millions of teenagers and under age kids is a big crime. Killing tourists in every place in Mexico makes you what? More civilized? You don't feel safe going to Mexico any more Oscar. And by the way, i am always on the Mexicans side , defending them againts those racist officials in the US. Think before you post your comments Oskar and be more civilized my friend. Allah bless you Guy
Israel did give them the land. These people were kicked out of 3 countries before, Jordan when they attempted to assasinate their king, Lebanona, Syria, and the Israelis were kind enough to let them settle in Gaza. You might do some research before you start making accusations.
Any religion that tents it's females as second class humans is disgusting and vile. Any so called "religion" that can get people on their knees with their rears in the air 5 times a day, 7 days a week is way way more than a religion, it's called indoctrination. Look at the Islamic world compared to the rest, it's mostly third world and always will be. Just keep half your population, females, in servitude. Now put that in your reality pipe.
Cali-guy, want to see reality pal, go on over to Indonesia or vast parts of Africa, or Yemen and tell me about how Muslims are civilized. Your beheading awaits you. The vast majority of "Mexicans" are peace loving and not criminals. Islam is BASED on second tier status of females, and who exactly is the largest grower of poppies that produce heroin Cali?? Where does heroin come from?, how about Muslim countries. Sell stupid elsewhere, were full up on here already.
The problem is, there has never been a Palestine state and Israel ceased to exist two thousands years ago, only to be resurrected after the Holocaust on land already taken over by the Arabs. Technically, this shouldn't be a problem since Arabs own at least 90% of the ME with scarcely populated land. Saudi's population density is 10 people /km2, Gaza's 3000! So moving them back to less populated areas could solve the problem. Hence the issue is a political agenda and religious hard-headedness.
Intellect-1949393
Rob, the Jewish people are not innocent in these wars with the Palestinians since the Jews took land that did not belong to them. If Israel would agree to acknowledging the existence of a Palestinian state tensions would calm down. Is it greed by the government of Israel that prevents this from happening?
#3.12 - Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:43 AM EST
Please explain to ALL OF the other posters here, How did the USA get the Land we now call Home?
If I read my history books right, I think we KILLED those who were here before us and then Stole what was left????
My Goodness! Newsvine is turning into nothing more than a propaganda machine...not changing anyone's views but at least while typing out the propaganda nobody has time to man a rifle.
To Rob - i don't hate Jews at all. I hate what Jews do.
I hate supporting Israel. I hate the fact that our media and banking is controlled by Zionist Jews. I hate the fact that Jews are infiltrating our government in great disproportion to their population in America. here is an example of Zionists in our government in the Bush administration. Note how many had high jobs in foeign affairs and the Pentagon.
American
/ Israeli Dual Citizens in the American Government
Attorney
General - Michael Mukasey
Head
of Homeland Security - Michael Chertoff
Chairman
Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board - Richard Perle
Deputy
Defense Secretary (Former) - Paul Wolfowitz
Under
Secretary of Defense - Douglas Feith
National
Security Council Advisor - Elliott Abrams
Vice
President Dick Cheney’s Chief of Staff (Former) - “Scooter” Libby
White
House Deputy Chief of Staff - Joshua Bolten
Under
Secretary of State for Political Affairs - Marc Grossman
Director
of Policy Planning at the State Department - Richard Haass
U.S.
Trade
Representative (Cabinet-level Position) - Robert Zoellick
Pentagon’s
Defense Policy Board - James Schlesinger
UN
Representative (Former) - John Bolton
Under
Secretary for Arms Control - David Wurmser
Pentagon’s
Defense Policy Board - Eliot Cohen
Senior
Advisor to the President - Steve Goldsmith
Principal
Deputy Assistant Secretary - Christopher Gersten
Assistant
Secretary of State - Lincoln Bloomfield
Deputy
Assistant to the President - Jay Lefkowitz
White
House Political Director - Ken Melman
National
Security Study Group - Edward Luttwak
Pentagon’s
Defense Policy Board - Kenneth Adelman
Defense
Intelligence Agency Analyst (Former) - Lawrence (Larry) Franklin
National
Security Council Advisor - Robert Satloff
President
Export-Import Bank U.S.
-
Mel Semble
Deputy
Assistant Secretary, Administration for Children and Families -
Christopher Gersten
Assistant
Secretary of Housing and Urban Development for Public Affairs
-
Mark Weinberger
White
House Speechwriter - David Frum
White
House Spokesman (Former) - Ari Fleischer
Pentagon’s
Defense Policy Board - Henry Kissinger
Deputy
Secretary of Commerce - Samuel Bodman
Under
Secretary of State for Management - Bonnie Cohen
Director
of Foreign Service Institute - Ruth Davis
ennoyedi... you are talking about people as they are garbage to be moved here or there. these people have 2000 years of history over there and you want them to be moved?. the isreali's already have thrown 800,000 palestinian out of their home and land. applying the same concept, why don't you suggest the jews to be moved to texas, there is plenty of land over there as well.
The Gaza War taught Israel nothing.
Israel will know what to do if Iran should have the gall to start a Nuclear War with Israel.
The Israeli Army, it's Military Generals, and Iron Domes are ready for combat. Israel is always prepared for War with their brilliant Military, great Leadership, and continual scientific research on how to make more accurate Defense Systems such as the Iron Dome.
What does Iran think will happen? They already have had a misguided missle that went nowhere.
Hey RalphH. "i don't hate Jews at all. I hate what Jews do."
What did I ever do to you? If you aren't anti-Jewish, who is?
.
As far as the "infiltration" by Jews into different levels of government, do you think these people got there because of their good looks? Many Jews are intelligent and although they will never become president of the U.S., their talents are utilized by politicians. Are you faulting them for being learned? Do you fault blacks that are good at sports?
Jews are .2% of the world population but have won 22% of Nobel Prizes in Medicine, Electronics, etc.......you're welcome, "friend."
"All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting." ~ George Orwell
Great idea...Israel & Iran....Y'all hurry up and get it over with....Just don't involve US in your petty little Family Genocides....Let Cain Murder Abel (or vice versus) once again!
America has had ENOUGH of these endless UN Globalist Profiteering Corporate "Not Wars" and we have wasted ENOUGH of Our Precious Blood & Treasure on your endless squabbling and occasional acts of Murder!
It is time America saves itself from the UN Globalist "Not Wars" and to stop taking our "Marching Orders" from Wall Street and their Corrupt Political Minions in Washington DC to "Not Save" the World!
We have enough problems of our own.
None are so hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free. The truth has been kept from the depth of their minds by masters who rule them with lies. They feed them on falsehoods till wrong looks like right in their eyes.~Johann von Goethe
MUW
"All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting." ~ George Orwell
Orwell set out for Spain on about 23 December 1936, dining with Henry Miller in Paris on the way. A few days later, in Barcelona, he met John McNair of the Independent Labour Party (ILP) Office who quoted him: "I've come to fight against Fascism". Orwell stepped into a complex political situation in Catalonia. The Republican government was supported by a number of factions with conflicting aims, including the Workers' Party of Marxist Unification (POUM – Partido Obrero de Unificación Marxista), the anarcho-syndicalistConfederación Nacional del Trabajo and the Unified Socialist Party of Catalonia (a wing of the Spanish Communist Party, which was backed by Soviet arms and aid). The ILP was linked to the POUM and so Orwell joined the POUM.
What has the Gaza crisis taught americans is another good question.
The U.S. Corporate media likes to show arab/palestinian extremists but not Zionist/Israeli extremists who have a strong influence over the government of Israel and are mostly supported by it.
Here are some pictures you'll never see in on U.S. TV or major media internet sites (CNN, MSNBC, ABC, etc). They are from the Israeli settler movement (they inhabit Israeli settlements and agitate for more, the settlements are illegal under international law):
Israeli settlements (illegal under international law) in the West Bank (occupied Palestinian land):
http://www.itisapartheid.org/Images/mapfrangmentation.png
Israeli/zionist settlers taunting and harassing palestinian women:
http://attendingtheworld.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/jewish-settlers-are-evil.jpg?w=669&h=459
http://imemc.org/attachments/sep2011/settlers.jpg
Graffiti left by Israeli settlers:
http://attendingtheworld.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/gas-the-arabs.jpg
http://www.imemc.org/attachments/nov2012/killarabsgraffiti.jpg
http://filipspagnoli.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/jewish-settlers-racist-graffiti-arabs-to-the-gas-chambers.jpg
Peace loving Israeli settlers:
http://www.radioislam.org/photos/jew_settlers/israeli_settlers_in_hebron_city.gif
Zionist settlers, teaching their children:
http://mondoweiss.net/images/2012/06/extreme.tourism.jpg
http://abujomaa.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/jewish-settler-kids-guns1.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_qUFDMUpk9jE/TInYNqq5pwI/AAAAAAAAlhk/pwk7t2rk8fY/s1600/Israeli+kids+(7).jpg
Zionist/Israeli children writing on bombs to be dropped during Israeli bombing of Lebanon in 2006:
http://www.radioislam.org/lebanon/jewish-gifs/Jewish-kids-express-love-for-children-of-Lebanon_files/Hate%20Kids-1.jpg
http://sabbah.biz/mt/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/192642682_2fea4cce66_o.jpg
illegal Israeli settlement in occupied territory of Palestine:
http://ivarfjeld.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/israeli_settlement_of_ofra.jpg
http://www.socialtextjournal.org/periscope/usacbi%204.jpg
FRAGMENTATION OF THE WEST BANK-
Bantustans in the West Bank.
Palestinians are ghettoized on 12% of their original land.
http://www.itisapartheid.org/Images/mapfrangmentation.png
The West Bank is divided up into 70 isolated cantons with no physical movement between them without Israeli permission.
There are over 500 military check points where Palestinians have to wait hours to travel short distances. Israeli settlers travel on Israeli only super highways and face no restrictions.
This disposition is reminiscent of Apartheid in South Africa, which set aside 13% of the land as "Bantustan" homelands for black South Africans.
Archstanton: Correct. Settlers unfortunately needing to teach their children to protect themselves against Palestinians who would not hesitate to murder them.
So Who is Humiliating Whom?
April 24, 2012 |Eli E. Hertz
Revised, originally published 2004 & 2009
You say Palestinian Arabs feel humiliated and harassed when Israeli authorities search them and their belongings; when they are prevented from traveling freely because of checkpoints, roadblocks, closures and curfews.
In Israel, every Israeli is searched numerous times during the course of a single day. Israelis are asked to open their bags and purses for inspection. In most cases, they are subjected to body searches with a metal detector every time they enter a bank or a post office, pick up a bottle of milk at the supermarket, enter a mall or train station, or visit a hospital or medical clinic. Young Israeli men and women are physically frisked in search of suicide belts before they enter crowded nightclubs.
As a matter of routine, Israelis' car trunks are searched every time they enter a well-trafficked parking lot. Daily, their cars pass through roadblocks that cause massive traffic jams when security forces are in hot pursuit of suicide bombers believed to have entered Israel.
Israelis are searched not only when they go out for a cup of coffee or a slice of pizza, but also when they go to the movies or a concert, where the term "dressed to kill" has an entirely different meaning.
These ordinary daily humiliations now extend to similar searches when Israelis go to weddings or Bar Mitzvahs. No one abroad talks about the humiliation Jews in Israel are subjected to, having to write at the bottom of wedding invitations and other life cycle events, "The site will be secured [by armed guards]" - to ensure relatives and friends will attend and share their joyous occasion.
These ubiquitous security checks do not exist in Arab cities and towns in Israel (or, for that matter, in Judea and Samaria) because those places are not and never have been targets of Palestinian terrorism. In fact, the average Israeli is "humiliated and harassed" by being searched far more times a day than the average Palestinian. Not one human rights group, nor you, has so much as noted this massive intrusion into the rights of privacy and person imposed on Israelis.
To date, no one protests the fact that, since the 1970s, Jewish schoolchildren in Israel are surrounded by perimeter fences, with armed guards at the schoolyard gates.
Not one Arab village in Israel or the Territories has a perimeter fence around it. Guards are not required at Arab shops, cafes, restaurants, movie theaters, wedding halls or schools - either in Israel or in the Territories. Palestinians also do not need armed guards to accompany every school trip, youth movement hike or campout. They are not targets of terrorism.
Countless Israelis in sensitive areas within the Green Line - not only in the Territories, but also in Jewish towns, villages and bedroom suburbs - are "ghettoized" behind high fences.
Many Israeli motorists avoid major arteries that pass through Arab areas of Israel, while Arab citizens and Palestinians from the Territories continue to enter Jewish cities and go about their business without peril. Israelis are told, in effect, to disguise themselves when traveling abroad - not to speak Hebrew in public and not to wear garments that reveal their Jewish-Israeli origins. Even Israel 's national airline - El Al - has been forced to remove its logo from the tails of its aircraft at certain airports, out of concern for the safety of its passengers. On the other hand, Arabs who frequent Jewish cities and towns in Israel wear their traditional Arab headgear without fear of being attacked or harassed.
All of this begs the question: Who is Humiliating Whom?
For more on the subject see www.mythsandfacts.org
LINKS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrSOs92qDFE&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHPSdBztS98&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5WDQjtQuRU&feature=relmfu
The desire of the Muslims to commit Jewish genocide has existed since the days of Allah and did not start with the onset of the Arab-Israeli conflict. With regards to imposing Sharia law, they make no distinction between lands originally Muslim and lands that they conquered by force. They are also not in favor of “peaceful solutions,” and prefer to kill or be killed. They believe that the Jews started the French Revolution and the first and second world wars and their views on Jews and financial institutions are comparable to the Nazis. They claim freedom of all religions under Islam though go on to say that “Israel, Judaism and Jews challenge Islam and the Moslem people” and that “Peace and quiet would not be possible except under the wing of Islam.”
The Covenant
of the
Islamic Resistance Movement
18 August 1988
Article Six:
The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinguished Palestinian movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and whose way of life is Islam. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine, for under the wing of Islam followers of all religions can coexist in security and safety where their lives, possessions and rights are concerned. In the absence of Islam, strife will be rife, oppression spreads, evil prevails and schisms and wars will break out.
The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).
Article Eleven:
The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgement Day. This being so, who could claim to have the right to represent Moslem generations till Judgement Day?
This is the law governing the land of Palestine in the Islamic Sharia (law) and the same goes for any land the Moslems have conquered by force, because during the times of (Islamic) conquests, the Moslems consecrated these lands to Moslem generations till the Day of Judgement.
Article Thirteen:
Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement. Abusing any part of Palestine is abuse directed against part of religion. Nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its religion. Its members have been fed on that. For the sake of hoisting the banner of Allah over their homeland they fight. "Allah will be prominent, but most people do not know."
Article Fifteen:
"I swear by the holder of Mohammed's soul that I would like to invade and be killed for the sake of Allah, then invade and be killed, and then invade again and be killed." (As related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).
Article Twenty-Two:
For a long time, the enemies have been planning, skillfully and with precision, for the achievement of what they have attained. They took into consideration the causes affecting the current of events. They strived to amass great and substantive material wealth which they devoted to the realisation of their dream. With their money, they took control of the world media, news agencies, the press, publishing houses, broadcasting stations, and others. With their money they stirred revolutions in various parts of the world with the purpose of achieving their interests and reaping the fruit therein. They were behind the French Revolution, the Communist revolution and most of the revolutions we heard and hear about, here and there. With their money they formed secret societies, such as Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, the Lions and others in different parts of the world for the purpose of sabotaging societies and achieving Zionist interests. With their money they were able to control imperialistic countries and instigate them to colonize many countries in order to enable them to exploit their resources and spread corruption there.
You may speak as much as you want about regional and world wars. They were behind World War I, when they were able to destroy the Islamic Caliphate, making financial gains and controlling resources. They obtained the Balfour Declaration, formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge financial gains by trading in armaments, and paved the way for the establishment of their state. It was they who instigated the replacement of the League of Nations with the United Nations and the Security Council to enable them to rule the world through them. There is no war going on anywhere, without having their finger in it.
Article Twenty-Eight:
Israel, Judaism and Jews challenge Islam and the Moslem people. "May the cowards never sleep."
Article Thirty-One:
The Islamic Resistance Movement is a humanistic movement. It takes care of human rights and is guided by Islamic tolerance when dealing with the followers of other religions. It does not antagonize anyone of them except if it is antagonized by it or stands in its way to hamper its moves and waste its efforts.
Under the wing of Islam, it is possible for the followers of the three religions - Islam, Christianity and Judaism - to coexist in peace and quiet with each other. Peace and quiet would not be possible except under the wing of Islam. Past and present history are the best witness to that.”
Look up: “Avalon Project: Hamas Covenant 1988,” Yale University School of Law for more information.
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp
Hamas, Son of Israel
by Justin Raimondo, January 28, 2006
Amid all the howls of pain and gnashing of teeth over the triumph of Hamas in the Palestinian elections, one fact remains relatively obscure, albeit highly relevant: Israel did much to launch Hamas as an effective force in the occupied territories. If ever there was a clear case of “blowback,” then this is it. As Richard Sale pointed out in a piece for UPI:
“Israel and Hamas may currently be locked in deadly combat, but, according to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials, beginning in the late 1970s, Tel Aviv gave direct and indirect financial aid to Hamas over a period of years. Israel ‘aided Hamas directly – the Israelis wanted to use it as a counterbalance to the PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organization),’ said Tony Cordesman, Middle East analyst for the Center for Strategic [and International] Studies. Israel’s support for Hamas ‘was a direct attempt to divide and dilute support for a strong, secular PLO by using a competing religious alternative,’ said a former senior CIA official.”
Middle East analyst Ray Hanania concurs:
“In addition to hoping to turn the Palestinian masses away from Arafat and the PLO, the Likud leadership believed they could achieve a workable alliance with Islamic, anti-Arafat forces that would also extend Israel’s control over the occupied territories.”
In a conscious effort to undermine the Palestine Liberation Organization and the leadership of Yasser Arafat, in 1978 the government of then-Prime Minister Menachem Begin approved the application of Sheik Ahmad Yassin to start a “humanitarian” organization known as the Islamic Association, or Mujama. The roots of this Islamist group were in the fundamentalist Muslim Brotherhood, and this was the seed that eventually grew into Hamas – but not before it was amply fertilized and nurtured with Israeli funding and political support…
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2006/01/27/hamas-son-of-israel/
Ralph:
So the Government, Media can be run by you. The expert.
What a disgusting post. Shows how under educated you are---if you would take your head out of the sand, there are more than Jewish People doing jobs in Big Positions.
Sunni Saudis, oil companies, Christian right and their lobbyists may make a big deal about Iran's WMDs, Syria's Assad killing "children and women", "chemical weapons", "human rights violations" and so on just like before Iraqi wars!
Iran can get nukes from Pakis or North Korea!
Yesterday Hezbollah had 40000 rockets and today Hezbollah has 100000 to 200000 rockets. What a joke of oil money media repeating dramas like before Iraqi wars!
Iraqi wars and Afghan war have crippled US, Britain and allies badly in all respects. Libyan intervention was a disaster! British, French and German seventh century tango dancers went into hiding during video hate and killer marches.
They can't save the House of Saud and other Sunni barbaric, beastly and bigoted Sunni rulers like Qatar, UAE, Kuwait and other Sunni Arab League rulers.
House of Saud, a strict Wahhabi, is not even tolerating Prophet Mohammad’s heritage places. House of Saud consists of a megalomaniac, despotic and bigoted ruler and highly corrupt, despotic, bigoted seventh century mindset 5000 princes and princesses.
In Mecca, the house of one of the wives of Mohammed was demolished and converted into public lavatories. Mohammed’s birth place may vanish with plans to have skyscrapers, mega shopping malls and a Grand mosque!
In Medina, ten years ago a mosque of grandson of Mohammed was dynamited and the religious police were celebrating on this. There are plans to pull down three seventh century mosques in future.
Even Allah is furious with them. Or else, why will Muslims kill Muslims?
quality reporting...not.. I quote"
Verdict: Very good.
Nobody in a shelter was hurt. The three killed did not do as they were advised and stood on their balcony watching the action. A rocket shot right through the window, splattering them against the walls. "
really? You had to write that part like that?? Why don't you throw some pics of the splattered bodies all over the wall to punctuate your description...seems a little low-brow for investigative piece...just sayin
I somewhat agree. However, whenever these terrorist attack Israel they come crying and showing the bodies of children killed in the retaliation attack to garner support from the world. They actually do not value the child's life but rather use it as another pawn against the West knowing we do value human life.
Oh, so trying to get an injured Palestinian child to a hospital or a clinic ASAP is "showing" off? You're a lost cause, dude. 60 years of conflict and you still don't get it.
@Esam-
So you're definitely a Muslim Militant supporter with as many times as you mention "Palestinians"
Crying about a palestinian child to the hospital (sarcasm) *oh the agony* while ignoring facts like, oh...I dunno, bombings by Muslims that have killed hundreds in Mumbai and other emassies (around the world) and muslims taking over planes and flying them into the world trade towers. Subway bombings in Spain and London....hundreds upon hundreds dead, and you cry about a "Palestinian this" and "Palestinian that"....
BOTH HAMAS AND HEZBOLLA ARE TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS.
Further more, by sticking up for them, you're sticking up for muslims, for sticking up for muslims you're advocating what the Quran preaches.... That mass raping of women is okay for insults, that marriage to girls at age 7 is just fine (this would make you a pedophile or supporter you know?) not to mention all the other crap...go do some history and stop listenting to all your middle school teachers.
refer to my first post, I've linked easy sources there for you so you can just click the link #1.9...
you know, the one you were crying about earlier.
Funny how you cry about all these "facts" being missing, but you supply none of your own.
By the way, you writing "60 years of conflict" Just goes to show you how ignorant you are.
I suggest you look up...
The Habiru ---who are modern day hebrew
Read the Bible
Read the Quran (maybe no more of this for you)
The Crusades
World War I (more specifically the Ottoman Turks and Palestine)
World War II (Especially the couple years right after and right before, where we learn of millions of jews not having a homeland and those consequences, and then we learn of the giving of Israel BACK to the Jews again a couple years after the war)
Then maybe come back and people will actually listen to you.
Yaaaawn!
Ignorance is bliss... and you seem most inclined to sit back and learn nothing, while believing lies.
Do the research, yawn all you want, again it points to how uneducated you are.
What? Who?
@ Esam... Pack it up and move back to Baghdad since that is where you appear to belong. ALONG with the Liberal Muslim Supporting Media. AND DON'T forget to take the Muslims that what to turn the US into another filthy third world country... (YES, that means the Muslim Obama as well).
Personally I have nothing but respect for Israel and I support the killing of as many of the people BOMBING thier country.I have done extensive research into the muslim affliction/infection throughout recorded history and have come to the conclusion that those who choose to kill in the name of Muhammed need to be eliminated by any means.They are sub-human and have proven it for centuries.Ask yourself how would you react if your country was bombed? I am ex-military and in total agreement with how Israel deals with these ignorant fools(muslims.)Read your history to find out how animalistic and sick the people are that hide behind an evil so called religion of peace hahahahaha....kill them all and let God sort them out and you will have peace until they breed and subjugate more uneducated fools.
This article is a joke. They are making two plus two as twenty two.
Yesterday, Hezbollah had 40000 rockets and today they have 100000 to 200000 rockets.
What is the big deal about Iranian WMDs? Iran can get/buy/steal nukes from Pakis.
No repititions of jokes like before Iraqi wars!
We have no role in Syria and Iran.
Let seventh century Sunni Saudis and co and tenth century Iranian Shiites Ayotollahs and co battle out whose Allah is greater!
We will worry about the remaining later!
Also remove sanctions on Iranian oil to crash oil prices.
We need to use substitutes for oil such that these desert camel dancers can go back to their camel days.
What European country hasn't tried to get rid of the Jews - they supported the creation of Israel so they wouldn't have to deal with them. So how did the USA end up with so many prominent Jews in places of power - looks like the joke is on us.
I doubt it. Islam has been a bane to mankind since the cult was first created. It's destruction should be a priority to the non-believers since it's followers want them dead.
@J-P -
The Statue of Liberty reads "Give me your tired, your poor/ Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free/The wretched refuse of your teeming shore/Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me/I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
We did just that in WWII - To answer your question how many Jews came to places of power in the U.S. Also I should point out that there are plenty of other groups besides Jews in places of power in the U.S.
Furthermore, Israel has been an ally for a very long time, we share common ground in faith (and to those of you who say Islam shares the same foundations of faith are plain wrong, the Quran preaches violence SPECIFICALLY to Christians and Jews over and over again, not so with Jews and Christians), so with all this said, what is your point that there are Jews in power in the U.S? And how is the "joke on us" as you say, because from the evidence it seems a good deal of wealth and U.S. economy is promoted by millions of Jews paying taxes and not wanting to do harm to the U.S.... I think a good deal of Americans would rather have a few Jews in their neighborhood than a few muslims.
The USA wound up with so many prominent Jews in places of power because we never restricted their rights.
Amazing what freedom can accomplish, go figure........
Any of you pro Muslim AntiIsraelis care to dispute the following:
Amin al-Husayni, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and Chairman of the Arab Higher Committee, had collaborated with Nazi Germany during World War II. In 1940, he asked the Axis Powers to acknowledge the Arab right "to settle the question of Jewish elements in Palestine and other Arab countries in accordance with the national and racial interests of the Arabs and along the lines similar to those used to solve the Jewish question in Germany and Italy?
One cannot make an agreement with people who have mental defects or are brain washed or are fanatics. Western powers which are capable of provoking change are looking the other way as is the U.S.
Billions or Trillions lost in Iraq and Afghanistan and nothing will come of it. The leaders are pro Iran and OBUMMER did not include in his policies the installation and fomentation of political groups that would be friendly towards the United States. The whole idea, actually, of the invasion of Iraq was regime change. The whole reason of supporting Saddam Hussein's war against Iraq was to punish Iraq for taking over the U.S. embassy and holding Americans prisoners under the ineffective and childish Carter years. Now we have exactly the same happening with Obummer.
At least when Iraq was fighting Iran, the two were so busy consuming each other militarily and economically, they did not bother the rest of the world.
Obummer besides not knowing economics does not know global politics.
Vegas, You are right. The reporting we are seeing is most assuredly pro Gazan, pro Hamas, pro Muslim. Yesterday's article was all about the gazans, replete with pictures of the wounded and dead. A lot of covert anti-semitism, but not so much so that the perceptive can not see through it.
todaymyopinion. g.w bush's grandfather helped hitler rise to power. what is your point.
In response to "Billions or Trillions lost in Iraq and Afghanistan and nothing will come of it" no, nothing came out of it for americans, but the isreali's manage to put the intended oil pipelines from iraq all the way to heifa, isreal and secure the next 50 years of oil for themselves. It wasn't just regime change. it was about oil for isreal. afghanistan war was also about oil. just look up transafghan pipeline . the fact of the matter is u.s uk and the west don't give a sh*t about democracy and human right. since they themselves are the creatores of alquida , binladin, taliban jundallah and many other terrorist groups. the problem with iran is not about nuclear program. they can not allow an independent country to succeed, since that would have a domino effect on the rest of the region and that would be adios oil for I owe you bonds.
Well, if all Iran wants is to succeed as an independent country, they should be able to do it just fine without nukes.
If they stick to honest business, none of those oh-so-evil Western plots will be able to stop them.
CPO Sharky (I see you haven't adapted to civilian life yet) - getting to the USA and getting into power are two different things...next time I'll type slower so you see the bigger picture.
Well PatchesPal,
The good thing about getting to USA is supposed to be that you can become anything you want, including rich and successful, as long as you are willing to work for it, even if you are Jewish. I can see how some people might have a problem with that, but that's how it works.
!
Israel, nuke them all, don't let history repeat itself again!
Yeah, Rafa, and you can go f' yourself, too.
Hey Esam, why dont you put your money where your mouth is... strap a bomb to yourself and a 6 year old kid, yell "Allahu akbar", blow yourselves up inside a synagogue and kill a few Jews. Isn't that what the peacful religion of Islam teaches you?
The waring Hamas, Hezbolah and the radical Muslims are total human scum like you are. Israel should and will wipe you and your ilk off the face of the earth. You clowns are not human.
Im with you, rafael-2025308... the freak show must end.
Yeah, bellagio, and you can go f' yourself, too.
Esam ! to bad I don't do camel jockeys wives!
LOL....just another example of how people of middle east origin get along. BUT, I stand with Israel! The Bible states anyone that rises against Israel will perish....you attackers better take heed;)
Israel will nuke itself Rafael
Talking about nukes, it's estimated that in about 50 years from now they'll be a dime a dozen. If Israel hasn't nuked every Arab and Muslim by then the only thing its enemies need is send a couple of nukes to Israel and that country is history.
Be careful what you wish for.
rafael. history is repeating itself every day in gaza, but the jews are on the other side of the spectrom. they are doing what the nazis did to them to the gazan. you do have hateful comments. you shall not be called human, if you have no sympathy for felow human.
If Jews were "doing what the nazis did to them to the gazan" there would be no gazans left by now, instead their population keeps growing.
Gazans are not even locked in Gaza, they have an open border with Egypt, which their supporters somehow keep forgetting.
Also if nukes ever become "a dime a dozen" it will be a complete human extinction.
No American troops or tax dollars should be wasted in this never ending battle. Enough.
You are right that this is a never ending battle. War started in the middle east, it has continued there, and I expect that it will be the place where it will never end. The best we can really do is contain it within those borders so the fighting can't come out. We've made a valiant attempt to clean things up in there but it simply cannot be done. I say we leave it alone and refocus our efforts on containing the wars within those boundaries instead of going in there and partaking in the never ending conflict and losing more lives.
Carl, there is a lot more at hand then just this never ending battle (which I do agree with you, it seems to never end)! But we must defend Israel at all cost. If they are destroyed, the arabs will then start destroying each other.....wait, that may not be such a bad thing......gas would be a lot cheaper then! lol But, all joking aside, we must defend Israel. If there were no attacks against Israel, there would be no war. Its pretty dam simple! We dont have to send troops, we have plenty of air might just waiting to kick some a$$ :)
jamie .. you are a moron. Isreal is the main cause of the wars in middle east. backing isreal for what . what kind of ally is isreal and what has it done for u.s. none.
No Jamie, we should not defend Israel at all. There should never be even one American soldier to bleed for Israel. We owe Israel nothing. When are they going to pay us taxpayers back for all of the billions we have been forced to pay for them? Israel wants to continue the war and conflict so they can demand more billions from the US taxpayers.
There never was even one American soldier bleeding for Israel. All the money given to Israel came right back to USA in payments for weapons, so there would be more jobs for you.
You want to know what Israel did for USA? Just check the origin of the technology you use, especially if it contains Intel chips. Thanks to Israel, US saved a lot more on tech than it ever spent on Israel.
Now, can anyone tell me what Egypt has ever done for USA, and when they are going to pay back all the taxpayers' billions? How about Pakistan?
And no, Israel does not want to continue the wars. You might discover that having rockets rain on your head is no fun at all (if you eve try it).
אובמה טובה יותר להגיע עם התכנית ולהצטרף לצבא ההגנה לישראל
Agreed, major.
Obama should do nothing of the sort... it is a problem for Israel to solve... leave America out of it.
Jen, you are exactly right! After Israel shot up the USS Liberty, killing 35 Americans, and then sending jonathon Pollard to spy on America, we should NEVER allow one American to die defending Israel! EVER!!
we must elect those into office who make decisions based on America's best interests and not Israel's. Look what happened when Ron Paul mentioned cutting foreign aid to all countries, including Israel.
only solution: place allied troops at the original borders that the UN set up. close the so called settlements and turn them over to the palestinians. Build desalinization plants so that Isreal wont have to steal West Bank water anymore. Just keep them apart. take away the military of both sides and make them both protectorates of the allies. Jerusalem becomes a neutral zone with only a police force made up of non-Arabs and non-Jews.
אובמה טובה יותר להגיע עם התכנית ולהצטרף לצבא ההגנה לישראל
Of course everyone in America knows that Obama has nothing to say about Israel. If they are under any duress he better be launching cruise missiles toward Lebanon and Iran or at least some small nuclear warheads. If Obama failed to do that he would be impeached with the help of the Democrat Party. Obama cannot act alone for very long without the American people calling for his ouster. Just because he is in his final term gives him no right to act outside of the American peoples wishes. I am speaking of the majority and not of the Israel hating minority. If Obama can spend money on providing the Libyan terrorist with weapons he can defend Israel. Anything less would be unacceptable from an American president and he knows it. Obama works for us and not the other way around. He must toe our line.
What?
So.....Obama works for Israel? I think you've just proven the point of a lot of conspiracy theorists who post here....just saying...
Esam, you can bet on Obama doing the right thing in the worst case scenario. Or else he will be quickly gone. The American people will not put up with NOT helping Israel.
Obama WILL dance to Netanyahu's tune, believe that.
Dance barry-boy......dance
AMEN.... Obama better take this to heart! Defend or you will be gone;)
jaime.. what you mean is that mossad will assassin him , just like they did jfk. I don't doubt that they may attempt it, but that would be the end of isreal. they got away with it with jfk because the power of global media was not like it is today and they would not be able to push it under the rug this time.
Hey Larry - No where in the job description of the President of the United Statesdoes it say the has to support Israel.The US has run out of money, thanks to 2 wars , planned and sold by Zionists, for the benefit of Israel.
The war in Afghanistan was for the TAPI gas pipeline and the war in Iraq was for the oil pipeline from Iraq to Haifa in Israel. Those wars will cost the American taxpayer over 5 trillion dollars and only Israel recieves any benefits.
No more wars for Israel.
Once the Pentagon's choice to lead the "new" Iraq, Chalabi
promised to reopen an old British-built pipeline from Kirkuk in northern Iraq
to the Israeli port of Haifa. The plan impressed Richard Perle, Douglas Feith
and other conservatives influencing Bush administration policy toward Iraq in
the lead-up to last year's war.
The idea also drew enthusiastic response from Israel.
"The pipeline would be a dream," Yosef Paritzky, Israel's minister
of infrastructures, said as reported by Salon.com. "We'd have an
additional source of supply, and could even export some of the crude through
Haifa. But we'd need a treaty with Iraq . . . to build the pipeline."
Once Chalabi assumed a position of influence in the new Iraqi government,
Israel would get its treaty, the neoconservatives were assured.
http://www.jweekly.com/article/full/19725/iraq-to-haifa-oil-pipeline-could-spur-economic-rebirth/
www.rense.com/general15/game.htm
Wow, Ramesh!
You actually seemed like a reasonable debater, yet here you are repeating Ralph's most idiotic conspiracy theory or all.
I guess I'll have to learn not to take you seriously any more.
.....pssst....it wasn't The Mossad,....it was The Ummah
The Ummah IS the cause of 9/11 and the Ummah is the actual cause of Wars in The Middle East, Asia and Africa....and The Ummah is working on The West
The Ummah is behind Slavery (The Ummah's Minions captured the Africans for hundreds of years and Sold these Slaves)
The Ummah is behind Many Assassinations in The West, and Almost ALL in The Middle East.
The Ummah is behind he idea that, "IF you are NOT a part of The Ummah, then you ARE a LESSER person.
The Ummah is behind The idea that women are LESSER, and are in THIS World to serve Men
The Ummah is behind KILLING their own women for "Honor".
The Ummah WANTS ALL The LAND, to BE The Land of The Ummah;....Israel and then Europe and The States
SHARIAH LAW FOR ALL
The Ummah = The Liars - The Ummah = The Evil
The Prez, is not obligated to come to the defense of Israel if they attack Iran. If he does, I pray that this leads to a wider war and the return of the draft with no exception. The thought of John Dingleberry the 3rd being pulled out of Harvard and sent to fight Iranian supporters in Iraq, is simply beautiful. Once Americans start to die because of Israel, it will be the being of the end to this "ankle grabbing" policy we have towards Israel. So Nut-an -yahoo, what are you waiting for, Sisssssssssssy
He is waiting for USA to scare Iran enough to avoid any war all together.
If that proves impossible, Israel will be happy to pound the crap out of Iran just like they did with 7 Arab states, and there wont be any need for help from USA.
MCR, it SEEMS that some people think that The Iranians are only good at fighting Arabs, and
ONLY IF, the Iranians can SWARM The Enemy with tens of thousands of rounded-up civilian Shi'a.
....and maybe Israeli Bombers and Israeli Fighter-Escort, won't BE Needed;
as it IS, Israel's Muslim Ally, Azerbaijan, and The Azeris that are inside Iran,
Are themselves, DOING
an Excellent Job of Sabotage, on The Iranian Nuke Sites, and Assassination, of Iranian Nuke Scientists.
Azerbaijan ALSO has an EXCELLENT, Recently Enhanced, Airfield.
....and State-of-The-Art, Israeli Weapons and Israeli "Hardware".
Mork, always remember soldiers who are bought with money are only that. An idea is forever to which will be the cause of a religious war. Mercenaries will not fight when the money runs out or the idea of killing those who are of the same accord. Allies can never be bought but wrought from a cause of the same accord.
Intellect-, VERY TRUE !!....Unfortunately for The Iranians, The Azerbaijani (a Turkish People) HATE The Persians !
The Persian Empire and The Russian Empire fought Each other, in WAR, about One Hundred-Fifty Years ago;
and The Russians and The Persians DIVIDED The Azeri Land, in Their *Treaty of Turkmenchay*.
The Russians Have GIVEN Back Their Azeri Lands TO Azerbaijan;
The Iranians (The Persians) have NOT !!!
a THIRD of Iran, is Azeri, and Azerbaijan WANTS IT !!!
The Persians, Have REFUSED to Give Azerbaijan their Azeri Land !!!!
<>
Intellect-,
The Azeris of Azerbaijan and The Jews of Israel have The SAME Enemy, The Persians of Iran !!!!
and let US REMEMBER, that Old Arab Proverb:
"The Enemy, of MY Enemy, IS MY Friend !"
Israel and Azerbaijan, STRONG Allies, with a MUTUALLY Advantageous Alliance.
אובמה ניתן להדיח
Israel is not the aggressor. They're defending themselves against an enemy that wants no real peace, and one that will not stop until Israeli's are wiped off the face of the earth by any means they can muster. Israel's defense of the innocent lives being threatened by the unprovoked attack within the borders of their sovereign country was stellar and they will have no need for US in the future - especially because the US as it exists now won't even be around when the excrement really hits the fan.
Israel has watchtowers along the Gaza borders and for years on end the Israeli soldiers manning those towers like to do target practice on Palestinian farmers and their homes, with or without a ceasefire, killing in the process hundreds of Palestinians who were minding their business.
It's never reported in the US media so when Palestinians throw a rocket in response Americans have no clue what's going on.
The entire world knows about this and that's why everyone from the king of Qatar to European and Latin American nations and international organizations keep sending aid over there.
Americans are kept in the dark by their own media and so they keep feeling sorry for themselves and think the entire world is against them and Israel for no good reason. The whole thing is so pathetic it's not even funny.
Get real, folks. For your own good, get real.
Esam you have posted this lie several times now...provide proof.
???
Well Rex it's a lie once you don't agree. Hence your demand for proof.
But speaking of proof, can you provide any proof of who's doing what between Gaza/Israel? I don't think so.
You simply depend on what the media feeds you. If that's your proof, then you are so drunk on Kool-Aid.
wow...that's quite some "proof" there salah and esam (is it me or do the names just sound Iranian?)
Refer to post 1.9 for your proof...with cited and sourced material. It's condensed, if you find it long, remember it could have been and should be much longer.
Esam please provide source for your declarations. I am sure if Israel soldiers were killing Gazans as you claim in unprovoked attacks, Hamas would have been screaming.
today, they're not screaming, they're firing rockets to Israel in response. For crying out loud, learn to read. And get off your lazy ass... well, actually stay seated and do some research. Have you ever heard of the internet?
Esam there are free sources on the internet to see and hear in English the news from the Arab countries. I spend time viewing and listening to these sources to get a wide variety of opinions. There has not been one word from these sources about Israelis indiscriminately firing on unarmed Gazan people.
As you can see today because the Israelis killed people in a forbidden area, it made the headlines. Irresponsible rabble rousers like yourself are the cause of a lot of lies and misconceptions. It has been reported on many sources that many of the children and people reportedly killed in Gaza were already injured or were dummied up to look as if they were killed or the videos were taken from past attacks.
Instead of being a loud mouth, liar and provocateur, get some sources to verify what your fat fingers are typing.
You gotta be blind to miss news like this. It goes on all the time, dude.
http://news.yahoo.com/1-killed-9-wounded-israeli-gunfire-near-gaza-101350532.html;_ylt=AlLPjnUyXEz3fjmQKPLtLmu1qHQA;_ylu=X3oDMTQ4Mm0xdGY5BG1pdANUb3BTdG9yeSBXb3JsZFNGIE1pZGRsZUVhc3RTU0YEcGtnA2M2NmFkYWY2LWMzNjQtM2EyNC05MTFhLTcxZTZmMjczMWM1OQRwb3MDMgRzZWMDdG9wX3N0b3J5BHZlcgM2YWEyM2I2MC0zNTU3LTExZTItOWQ2Yi1hZDMyZTgwZmJmY2M-;_ylg=X3oDMTF1cDZjaTBwBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdAN3b3JsZHxtaWRkbGVlYXN0BHB0A3NlY3Rpb25z;_ylv=3
Here is the link to the UN report if you are not able to find any other source. You tell.
Or just simply do research who are the victims or who are paying the consequences of this well planned activity. Israel government needs an enemy to stay on power same a like Iranians. They need themselves for their existance until civilians around the world realize this game played over their lives we included.
esam, I don't think we will see the opportunity for nuclear weapons to be a dime a dozen in 50 years. They are already inexpensive. In my own opinion, the world, as we know it today will not exist in its present state in 50 years. Because of mass hatred of people against people, we will succeed in destroying much of the world and the earth's population. Until people can learn to work out their differences without trying to destroy each other, each succeeding major war will become more destructive. History has already proven that. Hatred begets Hatred. Love begets Love. Only love is stronger than hatred. But hatred will likely have to have spent itself before people are ready for love.
Esam:
Please put YOUR words into context with what you are claiming....
The Israelis ENFORCE a 'NO-GO-ZONE' (any idea what that means?)... How do they know who and who is not trying to enter their country? Just like the Bus that was Blownup the other day... Haven't heard you talk about that? The Bus was carring just everyday people, no soliders or Military Personel... Let me hear your Outrage at that.
The man killed Friday was part of a group of people who approached Israel's border fence with Gaza to pick up parts of an Israeli army jeep damaged in the fighting, said Gaza health official Adnan Abu Salmia. He said soldiers opened fire, killing one man and wounding nine.
Israel's military, citing a preliminary investigation, said there have been isolated attempts to infiltrate Israel from Gaza, and that warning shots were fired in the air when the group approached Friday. The military said there was unrest along the border but did not elaborate.
In the past, Israeli troops enforced a no-go zone on the Gaza side of the frontier, firing on anyone approaching in an attempt to prevent infiltration attempts. Since the cease-fire, growing numbers of Gazans have entered the zone.
Esam you are being blind disingenuous and stupid. I said that before you did. Those people went into a forbidden zone declared by Israel and that was yesterday. Your statement was that soldiers were firing indiscriminately into Gaza killing people. People were warned in Gaza to stay away from the border.
Read the story.
Explain why the Arabs want to kill every man, woman and child in Israel.
There are 1.6 billion Muslims and 5 million Jews. Almost 3 million Muslims live peacefully with the 5 million Jews and are citizens of Israel.
Why do the Muslims who live inside Israel have three times the individual living standards than the Arabs in Gaza?
Why are the Muslim leaders in Gaza enslaving and killing their own people in a senseless war with Israel?
Very well, everybody can see who is offering "nuke them's, wipe em out's". Wait! these are all anti Nazi's. Look at the mirror and hear what you are saying. You are no different than Hitler himself.
It is appereant not all arabs but the ones have no oil or money to defend their lands are becoming terorrists. The ones have oil, money, prosperity and power are well friends of some of our conservatives and ally to us even many us unaware.
I dont undertsand people calling others stupid who cannot answer why there is a border if you can shoot people staying beyond the border.
Being able to shoot people staying other side of the border gives other side right to do the same . So there comes no innocent side, right or wrong left. Like in the uncilivilized times who has the power annihilates the opponent at last. This can not be called as victory for humankind and for our civilization in this world but you will find many calling it as freedom war as an excuse to kill your own kind.
The border usually consist of more than just a line in the sand. There is also a buffer zone, close to the hostile neighbors.
Gazans are perfectly aware of such zone at their border with Israel and should know better than to enter it.
Meanwhile, they also shoot rockets not by the border, not at those who tried to cross their border, but deep into the Israeli territory, at the residential districts.
Tocco-2790973 "Israel is not the aggressor."
Wow.
So "Israel" wasn't ripped out of Palestine to begin with?
So IDF thugs (and ordinary citizen Jews) haven't been killing Palestinian children for sport for 60+ years?
So Israelis haven't been stealing Palestinian water and land for 60+ years?
So the Israeli government didn't just recently double the amount of money it funnels through mayors to settlers so they can grab more Palestinian water and land?
So Israel's stated policy has not been and is not to stop as much Palestinian economic activity as possible?
Who knew.
Who KNEW....
Who KNEW (among NON-Muslims, of course) that The Existence of a Strong Jewish State, on Waqf Land
Would CAUSE The "Truth" and The "Prophecy" of The Koran,
To ( VERY possibly) NOT BE "Truth", and NOT BE "Prophecy".
Waqf Land, "Once a Land Is Islamic, then THAT Land, Shall ALWAYS BE Islamic"
Muslims and Islam CANNOT ACCEPT a Jewish State, ON Waqf Land
BECAUSE then,
The Prophecy That Islam SHALL BE The "ONE Religion for ALL The World"
would ALSO BE a LIE !
The 3.2 billion $$ we give to Israel each year is the product of a Memorandum of Understanding (look it up) whereby they use the money to spend on defensive missile systems purchased from the USA. Our way of using taxpayer money to line the pockets of defense contractors and Senators. Israel only takes advantage of our corupt system. Call it 'foreign aid.' That works for those of you who don't know didly. Secondly, a ground invasion of 'any' country by Israel is simply bad for business. Chew on that for a bit, and i'll get back with ya's.
That's just one of the many plans that fall inside and outside the military budget (which is why they can bullsh*t us, and tell us "entitlements" cost more) that use our taxpayer money to make defense contractors rich. As for your second point, if that wasn't the case, Israel would have taken over pretty much everything within rocket distance A LONG time ago. We pay them very well to make sure they perform "military exercises" instead of starting actual battles.
Yes, DB17, that's why i've always called what we give them a "Peace Dividend."
You forgot the $3 billion the U.S. "loans" Israel every year, loans that get regularly and magically and reliably 'forgiven' by the U.S. zionist-occupied government every year.
charm,
Are YOU Saying that, "The Persians GOT Nuthin' " ??
WOW,
IF and When, The Israelis Take-On The Iranians
then,
YOU think that,
The Israelis WILL Defeat Them Easily.
charm, that Must Also mean that,
YOU think that The Iranians WAR-Talk, and their talk of, "Israel is Gonna Get It !"
IS PURE Persian Bull-Shi'ite !!!!
The long history of the conflict clearly shows it cannot be resolved by War.
It is time to pursue other ways and methods!
That's the problem, Muslims don't reason with logic, they just fly off the handle and kill you if you don't agree with them.
This hasn't changed in millenia.
Ya mean Bibi's "final solution" for the Pals?
If Bibi was aiming for the "final solution" it would have all been solved ages ago.
BS
"It's the Homefront" says the article.... as everyone has just advocated for keeping Israel a divided Jewish state (everyone included in the ceasefire) .... What is the purpose of this article?
Israel learned that it can't have muslims inside their borders because muslims are militant and hate every other religion on earth, has since their founding by a war mongering, mass beheading, child molestor? (Muhammed.)
It doesn't take an anthropologist to figure that Iranian/Hamas/Hezbollah rockets are going to be coming down into Israeli cities again soon. Why? 1) Everyone left the Hamas and militant islam in control of the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem. 2.) Iran formed Hezbollah with the purpose...SPECIFICALLY...for exterminating the Jews. 3.) Hamas is still a militant religion and a ceasefire was just arranged with them...what happened to NOT NEGOTIOTING WITH TERRORISTS AND HUNTING THEM DOWN AND THOSE WHO HARBOR THEM? WHAT ABOUT GAZA? THE WEST BANK? EAST JERUSALEM?
That Bush Doctrine went out the window when we got Obama supporting the Muslim Brotherhood. Now, we negotiate with terrorists and treat them as Statesmen. But, actually, it started with Bush when he invited Abu Abbas to his ranch. Of course, nobody told him that it was Abu Abbas who financed the Palestinian hijacking of the Achilli Lauro and threw Klinghoffer overboard in a wheelchair, and it was his same friends, who planted the first bomb in the garage of the World Trade Center (Abu Nidal, and Ramsey Yousef). Abu Nidal ran off and hid in Iraq, and when we invaded, it was reported he committed suicide. Shot in the back of the head three times. Yousef we caught and put on ice.
If I recall correctly, that same genius also said something about "mission accomplished", prior to us remaining in Iraq for nearly another decade after that. The bottom line is that Hamas ARE terrorists, but so are the people who run China. When a group represents a nation (even a pseudo one, like the current Palestinian territory), you pretty much have no one else to negotiate with if you want a peace agreement. By the way: if you believe the right-wing spin, nobody told Bush a lot of things- apparently, the real truth is that he can't read well enough to discern the meaning of "Al Qaeda determined to strike the US", and the like....
Who is going to tell me what if French re-claims state of Lousiana again based on their historical ties, whose country will that be? In that scenario, French occupaying invaders can be called that they are defending their own country or right to their existance?
Everybody need to be on the same page based on the facts to be able to end this nonsense. You tell me.
@youtell
Simply put, muslims hate the jews, and their quran has at least 109 verses that preach violence towards jews. Tell me then, can they exist in the same state when one side has verses in their holiest books of their faith (whether you agree with such a thing or not) together?
It cannot be done, so I advocate the small nation of Israel to unify itself over a violent militant religion and race which have other nations, much more similar and in line with their own views, surrounding Israel, it would make more sense for the muslims to move out of all of Israel including the West Bank and Gaza, and just give it back to the Jews. As for Jerusalem, they should give back east Jerusalem as well because the Islamic holy city is Mecca anyway. Their little story of where the dome of the rock is, and why it's there (that muhammed lept from the spot on his pegasus into the great blue yonder) is void when considered when their religion was conceived there was a Jewish Temple where the dome of the rock was now ....(completely annihilating their story of Muhammed leaping off the spot and making it one of their holy places in the first place.)
Israel is a sovereign nation! I do not see them touting religion, as their reasons for defending themselves! They have a right to protect their borders from any enemy! They are also, our ally and we are there ally! I see the radical religious leaders of Islam to be more to blame for the disruptions of peace in the world today! These radical leaders have the power to stop this fighting, and they will not speak out against it, because they believe in Jihad, their Holy war their belief that everyone should worship as they do, and accept their concept of who God is! According to my belief there is only one name given under heaven whereby men must be saved, Jesus.' Jesus is God! The word was made flesh and dwelt among us, The first chapter of ST. John In the beginning was the word and they word was with God and the word was God and all things that were made was made by Him! The word was made flesh and dwelt among us! Jesus is God! Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that he is the Lord! He is the door if anyone tries to enter any other way he is a thief and a liar! Jesus is the only begotten of the Father full of grace and truth!
Balh, blah, blah, waaah, waaah, waaah!
Israel has watchtowers along the Gaza borders and for years on end the Israeli soldiers manning those towers like to do target practice on Palestinian farmers and their homes, with or without a ceasefire, killing in the process hundreds of Palestinians who were minding their business.
It's never reported in the US media so when Palestinians throw a rocket in response Americans have no clue what's going on.
The entire world knows about this and that's why everyone from the king of Qatar to European and Latin American nations and international organizations keep sending aid over there.
Americans are kept in the dark by their own media and so they keep feeling sorry for themselves and think the entire world is against them and Israel for no good reason. The whole thing is so pathetic it's not even funny.
Get real, folks. For your own good, get real.
Cut and paste, cut and paste, cut and paste....waaah, waaah, waaah.
I've never heard anyone "cry" so much as Esam over there, whom I firmly believe is just a muslim trying to defend his militant faith, but ultimately pointing him out quite nicely.
Esam...the very name rings Iranian.
Esam==Islam nuff said!!
astounding, are you sitting down? Please do, I've some news for you... I come from a Palestinian Christian family based in the village of Abud where we own some 17 acres of land with two homes on it. It's a village founded by a higher up in the Byzantine empire sometime around 400ad and that we now share with Palestinian Muslims.
astounding... hey, wake up. Oh, the poor fellow just fainted. Reality is too much for him to handle.
1
And you're sounding like a stuck record...
So, Esam, you think that the land is yours because your village was founded by Byzantine empire sometime around 400ad. Interesting.
Did you know that Byzantine empire was build by conquering the former dominions of the Roman empire, and one of those dominions was called Hebrew Kingdom and was populated by Jews.
So, in order to fond your village, Byzantines had to first chase some Jews of the land.
Esam ... hey, wake up. Oh, the poor fellow just fainted. Reality is too much for him to handle.
For those of you who are clueless:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/mou2007.html
I'm wondering if the latest round of conflict was investigated by Iran to muddy the picture and probe the situation. This is at least a three sided fight. 1) The ostensible fight between Israel and the Palestinians due to the Jews returning to a homeland that already had inhabitants. The UN decided the Jews deserved a homeland, but unfortunately, somebody else already lived there. 2) The Sunni and the @!$%#e fight that has been going on for at least 1,500 years. I don’t know very much about this, but it seems to be a current that flows underneath the surface. 3) The US and Western Europe fight which started with the Crusades, proceeded as Islam spread across Africa, probed Spain and entered into the Balkans and continues today in Afghanistan.
The aspect I’ve been thinking about lately is fight #2, and the question I’m asking is “Where are the Saudi in this visa a vie fight #1?” Specifically, “What do the Saudi think about a nuclear Iran?” I can’t imagine they are too enthused. A nuclear Iran has got to be one of the most terrifying developments in the Middle East for most oil rich countries. If the Moslem Brotherhood is a Sunni based organization, maybe the Egyptian President is in the negotiations at the behest of the larger Sunni coalition in order to save Israel for the larger fight against Iran. In my wildest imagination, I wonder if the Sunni coalition secretly backs Israel in hopes that they will take the fight to Iran. Obama has shown the ability to put together coalitions to do the dirty work (Libya)…which I support.
Anyway, the ramblings of an old man…things are never as simple as they seem, and the public knows very little of what is really happening under the covers. I was around for Viet Nam so I have no illusions about being well informed.
The Jews returned to a homeland that already had a Jewish population as did many islamic countries in the Middle East. They bought most of the land they now own from wealthy arab landowners. The muslims in other countries made life unbearable for Jews there so they too moved to Israel. Wars were constantly waged against the Jews in that land, and unfortunately for islam, Jews tend to win. Many folks believe it wise to take conquered land of your constant enemy especially if that land is used as strategic lacations to reign down mortar rounds on peaceful kibbutzim. Let's sum this up quite succinctly- Jews try to live a welcoming, intelligent, and democratic lifestyle while islam propagates hatred, lies, barbarism, and death/destruction. Israel promotes advances in technology, medicine, and agriculture to nurture all peoples of the world, while people are killed and mutilated in the name of a perverted god who has billions of his followers brainwashed out of fear. Now choose your sides!
A couple of typos...I hate that.
Instigated not investigated...
I meant to say Shia or Shiite
NBC is up to it's old tricks, letting the 2-bit, anti-Semitic weasel, Martin Fletcher do another smear job on Israel. You would never know it from any NBC report, but Gaza is ruled by force by the Hamas terrorist organization. Hamas, by word and deed, has been waging a relentless war of annihilation against Israel even before their violent takeover of Gaza. They have been firing missiles at the civilian population in Israel and perpetrating cross border terrorist attacks for years. Over 10,000 missiles, rockets and mortars over the past 7 years and now over 1500 in the past week, all targeting civilians. They have caused many casualties and wide spread damage and have sent hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children into bomb shelters. You use lies and propaganda supplied by the terrorist bosses in Gaza and present it as news. NBC, have you no decency?
ummm, that article is extremely pro-Israel. It says they kicked ass and didn't complain about it and then cooperated with US pressure to cease fire. You can't be any more pro-Israel than this article. In fact it is so pro-Israel I suspect it doesn't paint a full picture -- where's the Hamas side of the story?
The root of this goes way before America was born. It just has as new name called Palestine/Israel conflict.
It will not stop without full bloodshed. This was stated 1400 years ago. And it is the case now.
What we have seen in the past 60 or so years is simply a preview of upcoming major events.
with that said, go out and get you Black Friday deal.
Thanks
Great! Israel was able to smash little Gaza with no complaints from Israelis. So now it can proceed on the attack on Iran, Iraq, Lebanon and Russia? Sort of like the Spanish civil war as a preparation for World War II?
Gaza was shooting missiles at Israel. Iran is not shooting missiles at Gaza. So attack Iran in case they may have the capability some day? Easy to shoot down imaginary missiles from Iran as they transit a thousand miles over Iraq, but why give up the opportunity for another war?
Supplying the rockets to Gaza is sufficient reason for a preemptive strike.
Yeah Rex,
Spoken like a true Nazi.
Guess what, the house next me just bought an AR-15 semi-auto. I might as well strike them now in case we get into a conflict next month. You know how that works, preemptive strike. I wouldn't want them to use that AR-15 on me.
You suck....
With logic like that I would.
Thank you for agreeing with me.
The thought of the insane iranian regime having nuclear power is unimaginable. You try to live next to a neighbor like that! Their muslim leader has publicly called for Israel's destruction thousands of times. Should Israel take him seriously or not? Is it possible that these crazy muslim leaders are eyeing America? I have never heard of peace talk from any muslim nation, they all seemed juiced up on killing, and hatred of others. I don't hear of them inventing things for the well being of mankind in general. They live in a world of "hate your neighbors" not "love thy neighbor." It's a sad truth!
The first half of the article is very good and the second half--Israel/US and Netanyahu/Obama-is excellent. With its help, my interpretation of the situation is:
It explains the common denominator of (virtually all) decisions is the US. This insight is helpful in understanding why Netanyahu was wise in agreeing to the cessation: he cannot afford to alienate the US in quickly resupplying Israel and other security assistance in the future. He needs to keep the dialog going on Iran, and in the meantime cooperates on not attacking Iran at least presently.
He also has had a tense relationship with Obama, which has existed for some time but was highlighted in part his stern (some interpreted as rude and condescending) public and unnecessary rebuke of Obama on the 1967 borders, and also public support of more hawkish-sounding Romney (also his personal friend) in an obvious effort to influence the votes of Jews in the US. This (and Netanyahu's vocal support of Obama after he was elected) improves the relationship somewhat.
In doing so, Netanyahu also addressed political problems at home: the Israeli people are not comfortable with the tension--which would become much worse if Netanyahu went counter to Obama on the perilous ground invasion--and not promptly agreeing to a cease fire,. Netanyahu needed Obama's at least quiet acquiescence on his cease-fire statement, that Israel followed the request of the President.
In my opinion, the article is helpful in understanding the complex situation and offers some core tools of analysis. Thank you.
All this needs to stop, I dont support isreal or the Palistinians, I just wish it would all stop they are both violence loving people, and I wish they would just all kill eachother and let the rest of the world go on.
People like you what makes keeps hope going. Thank You.
As for all other war mongers out here, pity you.
Wish in one hand, crap in the other, see which gets filled first.
The militant muslims were offered full citizenship and rejected it, as long as there is an Islam, there will be bloodshed.
Peace and cooperation can only occur when you consider other people to be like you ("one of us"). The religions in that region really don't allow that. Neither side can ever consider the other side one of them. Honestly, the only actual "peace" either envisions is when the "other guys" are all gone. Frankly, the actual solution would be to get rid of all of them, not to be cruel but rather to put them out of their misery. Like two rabid dogs fighting -- no good solution exists as long as they're infected by the disease (of their religion).
Thoughtful comment. Kill them for their own good. The fact is, if the Arabs lay down their arms and rockets, peace will prevail. If the Jews lay down their arms, they will be immediately annihilated. The world is full of Christian countries, Muslim countries, secular countries. One teeny tiny Jewish country in the whole world should not be such a big problem. It's the size of New Jersey....what is the big PROBLEM with this?
Astounding, you are so prejudiced its unreal :\ That is the way you see Muslims and its very immature and poor. You are generalizing a religious denomination purely for what you believe is all ones doing. Every religious denomination has its hands in blood not by its ideology but by the people within. But that doesn't mean we hate them all for the bad apples who leave many to judge others by association. You need to to seriously take a step back from these highly unproductive views of yours. You assign zero blame to anyone but Muslims based on news articles. Get out there and see the information yourself. Not based on news organizations or any other banter on the Web. Just because it's on the web doesn't make it true, no matter what it represents or the .org text on the web address.
Regardless of what you find, it's not black and white nor will it ever be.