The article clearly states that the rich are getting richer and the terrorist group Hamas is making a killing as well. So arm suppliers are getting rich, but as far as the actual man on the street, I fail to see how he is getting a good deal . Whatever is being smuggled in his costing the avg guy a lot of money on the black market by the time all the smugglers take their cut.

Seriously? people who purposely target civilians with missiles? who send men and women into buses filled with children to kill them- Native Americans were at least noble, and not cowards who hid behind the skirts of their women.

Weapons-smuggling terrorists are a "good people". Wow...that's not an assessment one draws every day. At least not sober.

these are terrorists smuggling in weapons. terrorists that would not mind if they killed Americans either. I forgot...NBC does not like Jews.

charlesjones..

Really!!! Israel should bomb the tunnels while they are in them... At least we won't have to watch them carried through the streets...The bias media here will show it for weeks..

charlesjones

.....you kind of stuck your foot in it maybe without thinking about the ramifications of your statement so I forgive you your ignorance.

I am a Native American and find it pretty appalling that my people could be compared in any way shape or form to Palestinians. Native Americans do not, and have never worshiped a rapist, a liar, a murderer of innocents or a child fornicator. While we may not be the most educated people on the planet, we are intelligent enough to never describe this type of an animal as a prophet.

Also if you knew anything about Native American History, you would know that yes, they were fierce warriors. But also lived by the warrior code. Warriors deserve to fight, kill, and be killed by warriors. To kill a woman or a child of an enemy tribe would be a complete disgrace to a fighting brave and he would hardly be called "brave" for doing so.

Seven

Let me add this. Native Americans did not believe the way to get to heaven is to kill. Islamists believe that by killing infidels, which is essentially anyone who doesn't believe in Islam, will get a follower into heaven. In my religion, forgiveness is usually a way to get to heaven as is the view of Native Americans I presume.

They'll never learn...

Great Point Charles725. Perhaps also the Greeks need to rise up and reclaim all of Turkey. Constantinople is their former capital. The are entitled to Syria, Lebanon and the rest of the levant. It was theirs before the unprovoked invasion and colonization by the Muslims. The Muslims even had the audacity to place a Mirhab in the Apse of the Hagia Sophia to show religious dominion and justify the genocide.

I wonder why Hamas feels the need to smuggle food through the tunnels? Israel lets all food into Palestine through it's authorized port. In fact, from all evidence and media accounts, the Palestinians have markets bulging with produce and they appear to be well fed. One only needs to observe the Suq's and the rotund women in their Burqas. Is it a ruse intended to garner sympathy?

The blockade restriction is for weapons. Also, many of the Palestinians refuse to utilize any institution if it is run by the Israelis. They'd rather smuggle from Egypt and pay more, than get goods economically from Israel.

I am guessing that if Israel was destroyed and Hamas and Fatah took control of the land, that the economic productivity would tank, and they'd be fighting a secterian war with each other for religious dominion...like in brother state Syria.

War is a victory for everyone, it kills off the poor and uneducated. Yea, it's a damn shame that kids get caught in the crossfire but hey, at least our American bomb makers are making a killing arming both sides.

Palestinians wielded shovels and planks Monday to reopen tunnels used to smuggle in goods from Egypt to the Gaza Strip after Israel's eight-day offensive against Hamas.

Reminds me of the Iron Triangle in Vietnam. The only difference is the Vietcong were ingenious these Arab rejects are just idiot pawns of Iran. I wonder why nobody in the Arab world will take them in? I'll tell you two reasons. First, it's because they don't want their ilk in their country. Second, they know that by keeping them there and letting them suffer they are a burr under the Israeli saddle.

You know what really sucks?! When the first person to comment writes something so stupid that the entire column gets collapsed.

Instead of showing Israel dusting off and getting their nuclear gear in order ... they go with the sucker dummy photo with some lowlifes in a tunnel and state "weapons"!!!!!!!

And you can see ... it has worked .... the sheep get their daily dose ... and they didn't have to go to Fox.

Palestinians wielded shovels and planks Monday to reopen tunnels used to smuggle in goods from Egypt to the Gaza Strip after Israel's eight-day offensive against Hamas.

Keep it up and see if you don't get bombed again! Next time, MIGHT be the END!

Good job Morsi!!!

Creek Dog...no sh!t. Seven, I wouldn't even described their prophet as an animal. Animals care more than they do.

All these people defending Israel? Damn. You people do realize that Israel just attacked it's "own" people killing dozens of civilians. Too kill a few people. You realize the oppression of Muslims in Israel is very serious. I'm completely on the side of the Palestinians, Israel is worse than we (the US) are.

AeNonyMou5...How is the poppy over there? Do yourself a favor and stay out of the field!

So why do they need tunnels to bring food in? Could it be the permanent blockade set up by Isreal, decades ago? Hey, here's a crazy idea, stop the blockade and stop building so called settlements, and maybe there will be no more fighting? ya think?

On another note, why do the "free speech' people collapse posts that don't happen to agree with the "free speech" people's posts? just wondering.

Seems like MSNBS has a play-by-play progress report from the photos shown the last few hours. Are you "news people" helping with the digging?

Israel has watchtowers along the Gaza borders and for years on end the Israeli soldiers manning those towers like to target practice on Palestinian farmers and their homes, with or without a ceasefire. Israeli soldiers also like to do target practice on Palestinian fishermen.
It's never reported in the media so when Palestinians throw a rocket in response people like you have no idea why.

Let me see if I have this correct;

Palestine's wants the land Israel seized from them given back;

Israel says they will give back the land when Hell freezes over;

We are now trying to fiqure out why they are fighting to the death.

saxon, Palestinians and peace loving Israelis want UN Resolution 242 implemented. That's all.

Just curious about this blockade thing. How do the palestinians get the rockets into Gaza from Iran? Do you think maybe....just maybe it might be a wise idea to ship food or medical supplies by hiding them in one of the rocket cases? Just think of it, a case marked "Rockets Made In Iran", the Israeli's find it and it is full of food and medical supplies. Won't they just look too stupid? The Israeli's can say, "Wow they really pulled one over on us, huh?" Just curious about this....maybe someone has an answer for me. They just seem to get the rockets into Gaza without any problems.

Seven, it's estimated there are 1200 tunnels along the Egypt-Gaza border. Some of them big enough to drive a car through so there's nothing that is not delivered through those tunnels. So, yes, they smuggle everything you can think of.

charlesjones725

You can't keep a good people down. Good job Palestinians! Modern day native Americans.

Celtic 1

Seriously? people who purposely target civilians with missiles? who send men and women into buses filled with children to kill them- Native Americans were at least noble, and not cowards who hid behind the skirts of their women.

Celtic the DEMs national platform is to support the killing of unborn children at the rate of 2 million a year in this country. DEMs support the illegal immigration/ border crossing into this country. Why would you think that type of mentality wouldn't support a group of basically terrorist ????

Celtic this country is going down the toilet one charlesjones725 at a time.

This whole article is a joke right?

Esam - I'm so glad you can speak for all of the Israeli's and Palestinians. NO - UN Resolution is not what they want, you want to know what Gazan militants want? An end to Israel and the United States. I'll spare you the favore of actually looking up Quran verses that preach violence SPECIFICALLY towards Christians and Jews. It's hard to have a mindset when you're religion tells you over and over again to kill a certain people. All the Gazan and West Bank terrorists, using East Jerusalem as their capital, are heavily funded by Egypt and Iran to do just that. Hezbollah was FOUNDED with the specific purpose of eradicating Israel and the U.S. Look it up. Furthermore you've asked that U.N. Resolution 242 be applied before. Lets look at that shall we...

Affirms that the fulfillment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:

(i) Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;

Okay...well it took all of article One for me to disagree with you there.

You can't disarm the Israeli population, the last time you guys did that, you (muslims) wound up with all the Christian and Jewish Holy Lands (don't forget Mecca is the Islamic holy city, which is in Saudi Arabia) and the world wound up with a Jewish population spread to almost every country, some (like Russia and Germany) didn't deal with it so well.

Give the Jewish people their own country, move the muslims out, force them if necessary. Why can't Israel be an independent nation?

Lastly the post I'm responding to, comparing Gazan Militants to Native Americans, is probably the stupidiest thing I've ever heard.

why is it that Turkey is allowed to defend themselves and people go balistic when Israel does?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/03/syria-mortar-attack-turkey_n_1936843.html

No double standards for muslims huh?

http://www.timesofisrael.com/fresh-shipment-of-iranian-made-rockets-reportedly-already-en-route-to-gaza/

Fresh shipment of Iranian-made rockets reportedly already en route to Gaza

Now how did I know this was coming? This will NEVER end!!

Randy-840072

Celtic the DEMs national platform is to support the killing of unborn children at the rate of 2 million a year in this country. DEMs support the illegal immigration/ border crossing into this country. Why would you think that type of mentality wouldn't support a group of basically terrorist ????.

Obama: ‘The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam’

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/under-god/post/obama-the-future-must-not-belong-to-those-who-slander-the-prophet-of-islam/2012/09/26/acb9ab92-0810-11e2-a10c-fa5a255a9258_blog.html

‘SILENT CONQUEST’: NEW MOVIE DOCUMENTS ISLAMIST THREAT TO FREE SPEECH – AND OBAMA’S SUPPORT FOR IT

New York: On September 25, 2012, President Obama astonished many Americans by declaring, “The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam.” This is a sentiment espoused by radical Islamist groups like the Muslim Brotherhood, the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, the Taliban and al Qaeda.

Worse yet, his Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, revealed the lengths to which the Obama administration is prepared to go to enforce this view when she told the family of a former SEAL killed last month in Benghazi that the producer of a video she falsely claimed precipitated that attack would be “arrested and prosecuted.” He was subsequently taken into custody and remains in jail.

http://www.silentconquest.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ESxeL4Ug0Mo#t=83s

MSNBC extreme bias continues as news anchor Mara Schiavocampo says Hamas rockets “rarely do damage”

Maybe Gaza should lob a rocket her way!! See if she changes her tune!

celtic... If you are irish then you should know that the name terrorist was used to also demonize the irish resistant groups as well. hamas " created by isreal to counter plo and arafat " is elected by people. I don't agree with everything hamas does, but they are in the same position as the irish resistant groups were . now you can tag them whatever you want.

Dont you mean flood them with napalm to kill those terrorist,cowardly bastards!

The Gazans have plenty of food according to all visitors who go there.Unfortunately, at least from the time hamas murdered their co governors and put in a Islamic sharia terrorist stat,e they´ve had much too many rockets,missiles and arms.The bllockage which is both necessary and urgent stops arms by sea.BUT Iran is now sending missiles via Sydan.Israel recently bombed an Iranian weapons depot there.This is not enough.Israel and I hope other countries must not only bomb the tunnels but bomb all arms shipments crossing Sudan,.With Satellite surveillance and other means it´s easy to spot them.It´s essential that hamas can´t replace the weapons destroyed. Let´s hope Egypt will collaborate but with an Islamic finatic government there,that is doubtful.Eventually hamas must be destroyed completely and problably by a land invasion.These devils from hamas,hezbollah and their sugar daddy Iran are the biggest terrorist groups in the world And Israel is on the front line in facing them.They shouldn´t have to do it alone.I hope the U.S,Europe, much of Asia join in on fighting the Islamic terrorists beast.as well as non jihad terrorists Muslims ( of which there are many ) join in too. .It´s their throats.. as well as ours.. that can be slashed also!

While the agreement between Israel and Hamas was brokered by Morsi, I am still suspect of him. He is a card carrying member of the Muslim Brotherhood which founded Hamas and Hamas put him in power as the liberal factions of Egypt watched with dismay.

The Rafah crossing is a lot more porous since Morsi took over. Shutting down the tunnels may be diversionary. Israel needs to keep it's intelligence on high alert at the crossing.

"Eight hundred millionaires and 1,600 near-millionaires control the tunnels at the expense of both Egyptian and Palestinian national interests," Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, who leads the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank, told The Economist."

Correct Mr. Abbas. The Palestinians are their own worst enemies.

Eight hundred millionaires and 1,600 near-millionaires control the tunnels at the expense of both Egyptian and Palestinian national interests," Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, who leads the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank, told The Economist. Thousands of other workers make a living transporting goods back and forth through the tunnels, reports say.As of late 2010, around 1,000 tunnels were in operation along the border

More reason to keep conflict and hatred alive and further proof that the flotillas were nothing more than publicity stunts.

oops. guess we were thinking along the same lines with the same quote, basil. BTW, welcome back.

Instead of showing Israel dusting off and getting their nuclear gear in order ... they go with the sucker dummy photo with some lowlifes in a tunnel and state "weapons"!!!!!!!

And you can see ... it has worked .... the sheep get their daily dose ... and they didn't have to go to Fox.

You seem to know an awful lot about Fox.

Thanks Chef; At least now I can post links.

I'm so glad. ☺

Dont you mean flood them with napalm to kill those terrorist,cowardly bastards!

why dont we just kill everyone, because hey, that guy in the movie theater killed more than the GAZA did this whole round....wont that fix it for you? Just bam...extinguish every single life on earth, just in case...that way you are safe from what you fear

I just wonder about the proof that 'food' is being smuggled. From what I have researched, 'the 'food' claim has no basis in fact and therefore MSNBC is using propaganda to sway public opinion. Show the proof of food smuggling or don't use the term.

More reason to keep conflict and hatred alive and further proof that the flotillas were nothing more than publicity stunts.

SPOT ON CHEF!!!

The last flotilla resulted in them firing weapons on the Israeli's as they boarded ship! You don't fire weapons on someone unless you DONT have food, but more weapons!!

So when is Barry or Hillary going to condemn this? Of course, Susan Rice is too busy these days...

Don't they have homes and businesses to rebuild???????? Priorities I tell you....priorities!!

Just saw on another news media, of course not at this pro-muslim, scared what they might do to us NBS. Where hamas killed 4 palestinians and dragged one of them throughout the streets behind a motorcycle. Then proceded to drag by the home of his family. Why? Because they accused them of aiding Israel. These people are a disgrace to any kind of being here on earth.

Gabriel, I agree with you; Hamas are terrorists and definately a disgrace of the human race!!!

Seems like MSNBS has a play-by-play progress report from the progressing photos shown the last few hours. Are you "news people" helping with the digging?

I believe there are an estimated 1200 tunnels along the Gaza-Egypt border. I don't know how anyone will ever be able to close down the entire operation.

Israel has watchtowers along the Gaza borders and for years on end the Israeli soldiers manning those towers like to target practice on Palestinian farmers and their homes, with or without a ceasefire. Israeli soldiers also like to do target practice on Palestinian fishermen.
It's never reported in the media so when Palestinians throw a rocket in response people like you have no idea why.

Despite the rhetoric, the Egyptians are doing nothing to shut down the tunnels or stop the flow of weapons into Gaza. They are as much at fault for the recent escalation as anyone else. It is the porous border with Egypt that allows Hamas to smuggle so many weapon into Gaza. They certainly are not building the rockets they are firing in Gaza by themselves. At a minimum, the components are being smuggled in through Egypt for assembly in Gaza. If Egypt is serious about helping to end the violence, then they need to get serious about shutting down the tunnels and putting an end to the weapons smuggling. Otherwise all they are doing is helping to ensure that things will flare up again in the future, once Hamas has finished replenishing the rockets they used in this last round of fighting. As for the claims of the tunnels being used to smuggle food I say bull@!$%#. The Israeli freely allow food across the border into Gaza so there would be no need to go to the expense of smuggling it. The only things being smuggled are the materials that have been banned by Israel, and that is largely weapons and things that can be used to make weapons. No humanitarian goods are on the prohibited list.

@Gabriel-1934044

Hey Zippy, contrary to your asinine assertion, "this pro-muslim NBS" did, in fact, report on the story of the man dragged through the streets. Here's an excerpt from one article:

"In the Gaza Strip on Tuesday, Hamas executed six alleged collaborators, whom a security source quoted by the Hamas Aqsa radio said "were caught red-handed" with "filming equipment to take footage of positions". The radio said they were shot. Militants on a motorcycle dragged the body of one of the men through the streets."

..and here's the link:

msnbc.msn.com/id/49905625/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/t/hamas-says-gaza-truce-agreed-israel-egypt-say-no-deal-yet/

You ought to try learning a little about what you're talking about before you run off with your mouth.
As you can see, there were six men murdered, not four..

I can understand why one would have to "smuggle" weapons, But why would one have to smuggle food? If a truck filled with food came from Egypt, would not the Isreali gov. let it pass through? The answer is NO. and they wont let medical supplies get in either. Gee, I wonder why. could they be trying to starve the people out so they can build more SETTLEMENTS? nahhhhh

On another note: I can't help wondering why the "free speech" people keep collapsing posts that simply disagree with the posts of the "free speech" people. I think these people who keep posting how patriotic they are, just do not understand what America actually is. So let me pass this by you all. or ya'll. America is not a couple of shinny seas, or a bunch of purple mountains, or even some amber grain. America is "WE THE PEOPLE". So try being patriotic to your neighbors instead of calling them names. just a thought from a tree hugging liberal, :)

these are smuggling tunnels... but thank you msn for publicizing this so that israel can wipe them out again.

for the record, they get all their food, electricity, gas, water, etc etc FROM israel. go figure! the same country they are trying to destroy is completely taking care of them.

I have to say I'm amazed at how many Americans either live in their own world, or are in denial, or just make up stuff so they can excuse their prejudice. And their hatred and misinformation on Palestinians is a good example of that.

muslims have stated publicly that they want to drive Israel into the sea.

They also call America the big satan and Israel the little satan and are trying to kill all of us infidels. How are you going to react when hamas starts bombing the US?

Gaza is a prison camp with 1.6 million people similar to the movie Escape From New York. They are contained in a perimeter fence/no-go zone which stretches around the entire territory including the Egyptian border. A naval blockade makes sure that no boats come in or out. I would be helping with the tunnelling effort if my home was there as well.

At least open up the border between Egypt and Palestine and end the naval blockade. The people who live in Gaza are human beings.

"How are you going to react when hamas starts bombing the US?" LOL! See what I mean? This is too funny.

ESAM, so you think that muslims had nothing to do with 9/11? So you must be one of the mental giants in the "Bush did it" crowd.

Worm, lol! Dude, learn to differentiate between Muslim groups. Otherwise you'll get a mental hernia.

At least open up the border between Egypt and Palestine and end the naval blockade

Exactly!!! Egypt doesn't want the troublesome migrant workers either!

But no one has a problem complaining about Egypt, its so much easier to blame Israel!

Muslims enjoy using the palestinians as red headed step children and the palestinians love to claim poor me!

Let them all go back to their previous countries...too bad NO ONE wants them!

Jordan doesn't want palestinians, syria doesn't want palestinians, egypt doesn't want palestinians, do you wonder why?

According to the UN!!! All supplies of food and medical aid sent to the Gaza strip are directed through UN monitors. Any country wishing to contact the UN regarding supplies of food and medical aid are asked to do such so deliveries can be coordinated. The UN (in theory) does not allow weapons to be smuggled in. The amount of food handled by the UN last year should have been sufficient to meet nutritional needs.

The UN also before the latest military conflict erupted complained that food aid was being confiscated by Hamas leaders and being sold to the Palestinian people for ridiculous amounts. Watch Russian TV or read articles from other media sources sometimes.

The UN is by far an Israeli supporting agency.

Esam Said: I have to say I'm amazed at how many Americans either live in their own world, or are in denial, or just make up stuff so they can excuse their prejudice. And their hatred and misinformation on Palestinians is a good example of that.

Speaking of ignorance...can you tell me what the Quran has to say about how Jews and Christians should be handled as people?

You say you're amazed at how many americans are living in their own world or denial....it sounds like you've read the Quran....so you KNOW what I'm talking about.

So... here we go...with proof, for Esam... *Sorry for the post again, but apparently Esam doesn't know what his own religion preaches ...and it's obviously the root of the problem in Israel and everywhere Islamic violence has spread:

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with
nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with
commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be
hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called
'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join
the slaughter.

Unlike nearly all of the Old
Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly
open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of
the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah,
and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.

Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy
book's many calls to violence according to what their own moral preconceptions
find justificable. Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments
that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny.
Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people,
but bad ideology.

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate
or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued
until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed.
Muhammad's own martial legacy - and that of his companions - along with the
remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran have produced a trail of blood
and tears across world history.

The Quran:

Quran
(2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of
the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of
Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they
desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until
persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah." The historical
context of this passage is not defensive warfare, since Muhammad and
his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by
their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in
that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later
did). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The actual Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that violence is being authorized until "religion is for Allah" - ie.
unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

Quran
(2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth
and knoweth all things."

Quran
(2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed
for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which
is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah
knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence
can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only
in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time.
From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad
was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding
merchant caravans for loot.

Quran
(3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible
agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to
help."

Quran
(3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers,
for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no
authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes
Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly
believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

Quran
(4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this
world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he
victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are
unlike the early Christians, led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are
killed in battle, as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause
of Allah. Here is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

Quran
(4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Quran
(4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus
be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until
they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn
renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case)
take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran
(4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no
hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and
their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight
with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in
Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He
distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This
passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting
them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the
modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a
spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is
clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically
disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to
be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and
this is reflected in other translations of the verse).

Quran
(4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer
pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing
an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?

Quran
(5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His
messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should
be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on
opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for
them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous
chastisement"

Quran
(8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve.
Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No
reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

Quran
(8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle,
turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them,
unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath
incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's
end."

Quran
(8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder,
unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" Some translations
interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this
word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for 2:293, also).
The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj.
Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since
Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also
acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to
destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence
the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for
Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of
the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further
explains that "Allah must have no rivals."

Quran
(8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to
strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

Quran
(8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can
outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all
thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay
the enemy of Allah and your enemy."

Quran
(8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

Quran
(9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the
idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie
in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay
the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the
best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam (prayer
(salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five
Pillars). This popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the
context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since
the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack. Had they
been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a
duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months).

Quran
(9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them
to disgrace..."

Quran
(9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with
their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's
sight. These are they who are triumphant." The "striving" spoken of here is
Jihad (Arabic).

Quran
(9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold
that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor
acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book,
until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
"People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. This was one of the
final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military
expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the
Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other
people and faiths.

Quran
(9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians
say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they
imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how
they are turned away!"

Quran
(9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye
are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do
ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of
this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish
you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a
warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.

Quran
(9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your
wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but
knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42)
- "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would
(all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed)
on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in
self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long
distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case,
according to the historians).

Quran
(9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the
hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the
destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims
that they are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter.
It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside
the faith.

Quran
(9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and
fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and
it is they who will prosper."

Quran
(9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their
goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His
cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the
Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than
Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the
achievement supreme."

Quran
(9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near
to you and let them find in you hardness."

Quran
(17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to
the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word
proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction." Note that
the crime is moral transgression, and the punishment is "utter destruction."
(Before ordering the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden first issued Americans an
invitation to Islam).

Quran
(18:65-81) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor
killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the
family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story
(which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source) tells of Moses
encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem to
make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later
explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74).
However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would
"grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude." He was killed so that
Allah could provide them a 'better' son. (Note: This is one reason why honor
killing is sanctioned by Sharia. Reliance of the Traveler (Umdat al-Saliq) says
that punishment for murder is not applicable when a parent or grandparent kills
their offspring (o.1.1-2).)

Quran
(21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their
fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually
reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they
who will win?"

Quran
(25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against
them with the utmost strenuousness..." "Strive against" is Jihad -
obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that
this is a Meccan verse.

Quran
(33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease,
and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against
them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they
will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter." This
passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in
other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to
"fight in the way of Allah" (3:167)
and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which
include Jews and Christians 5:51-52),
and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against
Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers. It is worth noting that the victims
are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do. If this
passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why
it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations.

Quran
(47:3-4) - "Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who
believe follow the truth from their lord. Thus does Allah set forth form men
their lessons by similitude. Therefore when you meet in battle those who
disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make
(them) prisoners," Those who reject Allah are to be subdued in battle. The
verse goes on to say the only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is
in order to to test the faithfulness of Muslims. Those who kill pass the test.
"But if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution
from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with
others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their
deeds be lost."

Quran
(47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye
should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with
you,"

Quran
(48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the
lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso
obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which
rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom."
Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual
struggle.' Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted? This verse
also says that those who do not fight will suffer torment in hell.

Quran
(48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are
hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves"
Islam is not about treating everyone equally. There are two
very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status. Also the
word used for 'hard' or 'ruthless' in this verse shares the same root as the
word translated as 'painful' or severe' in verse 16.

Quran
(61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way" Religion of
Peace, indeed! This is followed by (61:9):
"He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the
religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even
though the infidels may resist."

Quran
(61:10-12) - "O ye who believe! Shall I lead you to a bargain that will
save you from a grievous Penalty?- That ye believe in Allah and His Messenger,
and that ye strive (your utmost) in the Cause of Allah, with your property and
your persons: That will be best for you, if ye but knew! He will forgive you
your sins, and admit you to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, and to beautiful
mansions in Gardens of Eternity." This verse was given in battle. It uses
the Arabic word, Jihad.

Quran
(66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites,
and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end."
The root word of "Jihad" is used again here. The context is clearly holy
war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who
call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.

From the Hadith:

Bukhari
(52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until
you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will
say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Bukhari
(52:256) - The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack
the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and
children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are
from them (i.e. pagans)." In this command, Muhammad establishes that it is
permissible to kill non-combatants in the process of killing a perceived enemy.
This provides justification for the many Islamic terror bombings.

Bukhari
(52:220) - Allah's Apostle said... 'I have been made victorious with
terror'

Abu
Dawud (14:2526) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things are
the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, "There is no
god but Allah" and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and
not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be
performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day
the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist)

Abu
Dawud (14:2527) - The Prophet said: Striving in the path of Allah (jihad)
is incumbent on you along with every ruler, whether
he is pious or impious

Muslim
(1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight
against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad
is the messenger of Allah

Bukhari
(8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people
till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say
so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then
their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with
them except legally."

Muslim
(1:30) - "The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight
against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but
Allah."

Bukhari
(11:626) - [Muhammad said:] "I decided to order a man to lead the
prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses
for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes."

Muslim
(1:149) - "Abu Dharr reported: I said: Messenger of Allah, which of the
deeds is the best? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: Belief in Allah and Jihad in
His cause..."

Muslim
(20:4645) - "...He (the Messenger of Allah) did that and said: There is
another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one
hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to
the height of the heaven from the earth. He (Abu Sa'id) said: What is that act?
He replied: Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!"

Muslim
(20:4696) - "the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: 'One
who died but did not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any desire (or
determination) for Jihid died the death of a hypocrite.'"

Muslim
(19:4321-4323) - Three separate hadith in which Muhammad shrugs over the
news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against
unbelievers. His response: "They are of them (meaning the enemy)."

Muslim
(19:4294) - "When the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed
anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him... He
would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against
those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war... When you meet your enemies
who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to
any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any
harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them
and desist from fighting against them... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand
from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your
hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them.

Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet
declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power." Ashraf was a poet,
killed by Muhammad's men because he insulted Islam. Here, Muhammad widens the
scope of his orders to kill. An innocent Jewish businessman was then slain by
his Muslim partner, merely for being non-Muslim.

Tabari 9:69 "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us" The
words of Muhammad, prophet of Islam.

Tabari 17:187 "'By God, our religion (din) from which we have
departed is better and more correct than that which these people follow. Their
religion does not stop them from shedding blood, terrifying the roads, and
seizing properties.' And they returned to their former religion." The words
of a group of Christians who had converted to Islam, but realized their error
after being shocked by the violence and looting committed in the name of Allah.
The price of their decision to return to a religion of peace was that the men
were beheaded and the woman and children enslaved by the caliph Ali.

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham
327: - “Allah said, ‘A
prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven
from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the
ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the
religion.’”

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham
990: - Lest anyone think that
cutting off someone's head while screaming 'Allah Akbar!' is a modern creation,
here is an account of that very practice under Muhammad, who seems to
approve.

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 992:
- "Fight everyone in the way
of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah." Muhammad's instructions
to his men prior to a military raid.

Additional Notes:

Other than the fact that Muslims haven't killed every
non-Muslim under their domain, there is very little else that they can point to
as proof that theirs is a peaceful, tolerant religion. Where Islam is dominant
(as in the Middle East and Pakistan) religious minorities suffer brutal
persecution with little resistance. Where Islam is in the minority (as in
Thailand, the Philippines and Europe) there is the threat of violence if Muslim
demands are not met. Either situation seems to provide a justification for
religious terrorism, which is persistent and endemic to Islamic
fundamentalism.

The reasons are obvious and begin with the Quran. Few verses
of Islam's most sacred text can be construed to fit the contemporary virtues of
religious tolerance and universal brotherhood. Those that do are earlier
"Meccan" verses which are obviously abrogated by later ones. This is why Muslim
apologists speak of the "risks" of trying to interpret the Quran without their
"assistance" - even while claiming that it is a perfect book.

Far from being mere history or theological construct, the
violent verses of the Quran have played a key role in very real massacre and
genocide. This includes the brutal slaughter of tens of millions of Hindus for
five centuries beginning around 1000 AD with Mahmud of Ghazni's bloody
conquest. Both he and the later Tamerlane (Islam's Genghis Khan) slaughtered an
untold number merely for defending their temples from destruction. Buddhism was
very nearly wiped off the Indian subcontinent. Judaism and Christianity met the
same fate (albeit more slowly) in areas conquered by Muslim armies, including
the Middle East, North Africa and parts of Europe, including today's Turkey.
Zoroastrianism, the ancient religion of a proud Persian people is despised by
Muslims and barely survives in modern Iran.

So ingrained is violence in the religion that Islam has never
really stopped being at war, either with other religions or with itself.

Muhammad was a military leader, laying siege to towns, massacring
the men, raping
their women, enslaving their children, and taking the property of others as his
own. On several occasions he rejected offers of surrender from the besieged
inhabitants and even butchered captives.
He actually inspired his followers to battle when they did not feel it was right
to fight, promising them slaves and booty if they did and threatening them with
Hell if they did not. Muhammad allowed his men to rape traumatized women
captured in battle, usually on the very day their husbands and family members
were slaughtered.

It is important to emphasize that, for the most part, Muslim
armies waged aggressive campaigns, and the religion's most dramatic
military conquests were made by the actual companions of Muhammad in the decades
following his death. The early Islamic principle of warfare was that the
civilian population of a town was to be destroyed (ie. men executed, women and
children taken as slaves) if they defended themselves. Although modern
apologists often claim that Muslims are only supposed to attack in self-defense,
this is an oxymoron that is flatly
contradicted by the accounts of Islamic historians and others that go back
to the time of Muhammad.

Consider the example of the Qurayza Jews, who were completely
obliterated only five years after Muhammad arrived in Medina. Their leader
opted to stay neutral when their town was besieged by a Meccan army that was
sent to take revenge for Muhammad's deadly caravan raids. The tribe killed no
one from either side and even surrendered peacefully to Muhammad after the
Meccans had been turned back. Yet the prophet of Islam had every male member of
the Qurayza beheaded, and every woman and child enslaved, even raping one of the
captives himself (what Muslim apologists might refer to as "same day
marriage").

One of Islam's most revered modern scholars, Sheikh Yusuf
al-Qaradawi, openly sanctions offensive Jihad: "In the Jihad which you are
seeking, you look for the enemy and invade him. This type of Jihad takes place only when the Islamic state is invading other
[countries] in order to spread the word of
Islam and to remove obstacles standing in its way." Elsewhere, he
notes: "Islam has the right to take the initiative…this is God’s religion and
it is for the whole world. It has the right to destroy all obstacles in the form
of institutions and traditions … it attacks institutions and traditions to
release human beings from their poisonous influences, which distort human nature
and curtail human freedom. Those who say that Islamic Jihad was merely for the
defense of the 'homeland of Islam' diminish the greatness of the Islamic way of
life."

The widely respected Dictionary of Islam
defines Jihad as "A religious war with those who are unbelievers in the
mission of Muhammad. It is an incumbent religious duty, established in the
Qur'an and in the Traditions as a divine institution, and enjoined specially for
the purpose of advancing Islam and of repelling evil from Muslims…[Quoting from
the Hanafi school, Hedaya, 2:140, 141.], "The destruction of the sword is
incurred by infidels, although they be not the first aggressors, as appears
from various passages in the traditions which are generally received to this
effect."

Muhammad's failure to leave a clear line of succession
resulted in perpetual internal war following his death. Those who knew him best
first fought to keep remote tribes from leaving Islam and reverting to their
preferred religion (the Ridda or 'Apostasy wars'). Then, within the closer
community, early Meccan converts battled later ones. Hostility developed
between those immigrants who had traveled with Muhammad to Mecca and the Ansar
at Medina who had helped them settle in. Finally there was a violent struggle
within Muhammad's own family between his favorite wife and favorite daughter - a
jagged schism that has left Shias and Sunnis at each others' throats to this
day.

The strangest and most untrue thing that can be said about
Islam is that it is a Religion of Peace. If every standard by which the West is
judged and condemned (slavery, imperialism, intolerance, misogyny, sexual
repression, warfare...) were applied equally to Islam, the verdict would be
devastating. Islam never gives up what it conquers, be it religion, culture,
language or life. Neither does it make apologies or any real effort at moral
progress. It is the least open to dialogue and the most self-absorbed. It is
convinced of its own perfection, yet brutally shuns self-examination and
represses criticism.

This is what makes the Quran's verses of violence so
dangerous. They are given the weight of divine command. While Muslim
terrorists take them as literally as anything else in their holy book, and
understand that Islam is incomplete without Jihad, moderates offer little to
contradict them - outside of opinion. Indeed, what do they have? Speaking of
peace and love may win over the ignorant, but when every twelfth verse of
Islam's holiest book either speaks to Allah's hatred for non-Muslims or calls
for their death, forced conversion, or subjugation, it's little wonder that
sympathy for terrorism runs as deeply as it does in the
broader community - even if most Muslims personally prefer not to interpret
their religion in this way.

Although scholars like Ibn Khaldun, one of Islam's most
respected philosophers, understood that "the holy war is a religious duty,
because of the universalism of the Muslim mission and (the obligation to)
convert everybody to Islam either by persuasion or by force", many other
Muslims are either unaware or willfully ignorant of the Quran's near absence of
verses that preach universal non-violence. Their understanding of Islam comes
from what they are taught by others. In the West, it is typical for believers
to think that their religion must be like Christianity - preaching the New
Testament virtues of peace, love, and tolerance - because Muslims are taught
that Islam is supposed to be superior in
every way. They are somewhat surprised and embarrassed to learn that the
evidence of the Quran and the bloody history of Islam are very much in
contradiction to this.

Others simply accept the violence. In 1991, a Palestinian
couple in America was convicted of stabbing their daughter to death for being
too Westernized. A family friend came to their defense, excoriating the jury
for not understanding the "culture", claiming that the father was merely
following "the religion" and saying that the couple had to "discipline their
daughter or lose respect." (source).
In 2011, unrepentant Palestinian terrorists, responsible for the brutal murders
of civilians, women and children explicitly in
the name of Allah were treated to a luxurious "holy pilgrimage" to Mecca by the
Saudi king - without a single Muslim voice raised in protest.

For their part, Western liberals would do well not to
sacrifice critical thinking to the god of political correctness, or look for
reasons to bring other religion down to the level of Islam merely to avoid the
existential truth that this it is both different and dangerous.

There are just too many Muslims who take the Quran
literally... and too many others who couldn't care less about the violence done
in the name of Islam.

Everything is cited and sourced for people like Esam's benefit.

Also I realize the link I provided for the Qurayza Jews was broken so here is the wiki info on the Qurayza Jews : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza

The Bible is riddled with repetitions and contradictions, things that the Bible bangers would be quick to point out in anything that they want to criticize. For instance, Genesis 1 and 2 disagree about the order in which things are created, and how satisfied God is about the results of his labors. The flood story is really two interwoven stories that contradict each other on how many of each kind of animal are to be brought into the Ark--is it one pair each or seven pairs each of the "clean" ones? The Gospel of John disagrees with the other three Gospels on the activities of Jesus Christ (how long had he stayed in Jerusalem--a couple of days or a whole year?) and all four Gospels contradict each other on the details of Jesus Christ's last moments and resurrection. The Gospels of Matthew and Luke contradict each other on the genealogy of Jesus Christ's father; though both agree that Joseph was not his real father. Repetitions and contradictions are understandable for a hodgepodge collection of documents, but not for some carefully constructed treatise, reflecting a well-thought-out plan.

Of the various methods I've seen to "explain" these:

1. "That is to be taken metaphorically." In other words, what is written is not what is meant. I find this entertaining, especially for those who decide what ISN'T to be taken as other than the absolute WORD OF GOD--which just happens to agree with the particular thing they happen to want...

2. "There was more there than...." This is used when one verse says "there was a" and another says "there was b," so they decide there was "a" AND "b"--which is said nowhere. This makes them happy, since it doesn't say there WASN'T "a+b." But it doesn't say there was "a+b+little green martians." This is often the same crowd that insists theirs is the ONLY possible interpretation (i.e., only "a") and the only way. I find it entertaining they they don't mind adding to verses.

3. "It has to be understood in context." I find this amusing because it comes from the same crowd that likes to push likewise extracted verses that support their particular view. Often it is just one of the verses in the contradictory set which is supposed to be taken as THE TRUTH when, if you add more to it, it suddenly becomes "out of context." How many of you have gotten JUST John 3:16 (taken out of all context) thrown at you?

4. "There was just a copying/writing error." This is sometimes called a "transcription error," as in where one number was meant and an incorrect one was copied down. Or what was "quoted" wasn't really what was said, but just what the author thought was said. And that's right--I'm not disagreeing with events, I'm disagreeing with what is WRITTEN. Which is apparently agreed that it is incorrect. This is an amusing misdirection to the problem that the Bible itself is wrong.

5. "That is a miracle." Naturally. That is why it is stated as fact.

6. "God works in mysterious ways." A useful dodge when the speaker doesn't understand the conflict between what the Bible SAYS and what they WISH it said.

God good to all, or just a few?

PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

[Editor's note: Some readers have raised an objection to this alleged contradiction. They point out that PSA 145:20 states that The Lord keeps all who love Him, but that He will destroy the wicked. In other words, some see no contradiction between "The Lord is good to all" and JER 13:14. Others contend, however, that even if the Lord destroys the wicked he could do so with compassion, pity, and mercy. Further, there are biblical examples that indicate that the Lord is not necessarily "good" or merciful--even to those who are not wicked. One such example is Job. As one reader points out, "If Psalm 145:9 was not a contradiction of Psalm 145:20 or Jeremiah 13:14, it would read something like this: "The LORD is good to all, except the wicked: and his tender mercies are over all his works, except when He is punishing the wicked." In any case, the idea that the Lord is good and merciful is contradicted by countless examples in the Bible where God orders the destruction of infants, personally kills David's infant child, etc.]

War or Peace?

EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

Who is the father of Joseph?

MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

Who was at the Empty Tomb? Is it:

MAT 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

MAR 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

JOH 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

Is Jesus equal to or lesser than?

JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.

JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Which first--beasts or man?

GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

How many stalls and horsemen?

1KI 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.

2CH 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.

Is it folly to be wise or not?

PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

1CO 1:19: "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."

Human vs. ghostly impregnation

ACT 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

MAT 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

The sins of the father

ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Rabbits do not chew their cud

LEV 11:6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

"Gerah," the term which appears in the MT means (chewed) cud, and also perhaps grain, or berry (also a 20th of a sheckel, but I think that we can agree that that is irrelevant here). It does *not* mean dung, and there is a perfectly adequate Hebrew word for that, which could have been used. Furthermore, the phrase translated "chew the cud" in the KJV is more exactly "bring up the cud." Rabbits do not bring up anything; they let it go all the way through, then eat it again. The description given in Leviticus is inaccurate, and that's that. Rabbits do eat their own dung; they do not bring anything up and chew on it.

Snails do not melt

PSA 58:8 As a snail which melteth, let every one of them pass away: like the untimely birth of a woman, that they may not see the sun.

Fowl from waters or ground?

GEN 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
GEN 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

Odd genetics

GEN 30:39 And the flocks conceived before the rods, and brought forth cattle ringstraked, speckled, and spotted.

The shape of the earth

ISA 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

MAT 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

Astronomical bodies are spherical, and you cannot see the entire exterior surface from anyplace. The kingdoms of Egypt, China, Greece, Crete, sections of Asia Minor, India, Maya (in Mexico), Carthage (North Africa), Rome (Italy), Korea, and other settlements from these kingdoms of the world were widely distributed.

Snakes, while built low, do not eat dirt

GEN 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

Earth supported?

JOB 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

JOB 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

Heaven supported too

JOB 26:11 The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at his reproof.

The hydrological cycle

ECC 1:7 All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.

JOB 38:22 Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,

Storehouses are not part of the cycle

Order of creation

Here is the order in the first (Genesis 1), the Priestly tradition:

Day 1: Sky, Earth, light
Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!)
Day 3: Plants
Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids)
Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.)
Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time)
Day 7: Nothing (the Gods took the first day off anyone ever did)

Note that there are "days," "evenings," and "mornings" before the Sun was created. Here, the Deity is referred to as "Elohim," which is a plural, thus the literal translation, "the Gods." In this tale, the Gods seem satisfied with what they have done, saying after each step that "it was good."

The second one (Genesis 2), the Yahwist tradition, goes:

Earth and heavens (misty)
Adam, the first man (on a desolate Earth)
Plants
Animals
Eve, the first woman (from Adam's rib)

How orderly were things created?
#1: Step-by-step. The only discrepancy is that there is no Sun or Moon or stars on the first three "days."
#2: God fixes things up as he goes. The first man is lonely, and is not satisfied with animals. God finally creates a woman for him. (funny thing that an omniscient god would forget things)

How satisfied with creation was he?
#1: God says "it was good" after each of his labors, and rests on the seventh day, evidently very satisfied.
#2: God has to fix up his creation as he goes, and he would certainly not be very satisfied with the disobedience of that primordial couple. (funny thing that an omniscient god would forget things)

Moses' personality

NUM 12:3: "Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth."

NUM 31:14, 17, 18: "And Moses was wroth...And Moses said unto them, "Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman, ... But all the women children ... keep alive for yourselves."

Righteous live?

PSA 92:12: "The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree."

ISA 57:1: "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart."

ACT 1:18: "Now this man (Judas) purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out."

MAT 27:5-7: "And he (Judas) cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests...bought with them the potter's field."

Jesus' first sermon plain or mount?

MAT 5:1,2: "And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying...."

LUK 6:17,20: "And he came down with them, and stood in the plain, and the company of his disciples, and a great multitude of people...came to hear him.. And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples and said..."

Jesus' last words

MAT 27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."

LUK 23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

JOH 19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

Years of famine

II SAMUEL 24:13: So God came to David, and told him, and said unto him, shall SEVEN YEARS OF FAMINE come unto thee in thy land? or will thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue. thee?

I CHRONICLES 21:11: SO God came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Choose thee. Either THREE YEARS OF FAMINE or three months to be destroyed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee;

Moved David to anger?

II SAMUEL 24: And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

I CHRONICLES 21: And SATAN stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

The GENEALOGY OF JESUS?

In two places in the New Testament the genealogy of Jesus son of Mary is mentioned. MAT 1:6-16 and LUK 3:23-31. Each gives the ancestors of Joseph the CLAIMED husband of Mary and Step father of Jesus. The first one starts from Abraham(verse 2) all the way down to Jesus. The second one from Jesus all the way back to Adam. The only common name to these two lists between David and Jesus is JOSEPH, How can this be true? and also How can Jesus have a genealogy when all Muslims and most Christians believe that Jesus had/has no father.

God be seen?

EXO 24:9,10; AMO 9:1; GEN 26:2; and JOH 14:9
God CAN be seen:
"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (EXO 33:23)
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (EXO 33:11)
"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (GEN 32:30)

God CANNOT be seen:
"No man hath seen God at any time." (JOH 1:18)
"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." (EXO 33:20)
"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1TIM 6:16)

CRUEL, UNMERCIFUL, DESTRUCTIVE, and FEROCIOUS or KIND, MERCIFUL, and GOOD:

"I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy." (JER 13:14) "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling."

"The Lord is very pitiful and of tender mercy." (JAS 5:11)
"For his mercy endureth forever." (1CH 16:34)
"The Lord is good to all, and his tender mercies are over all his works." (PSA 145:9)
"God is love." (1JO 4:16)

Tempts?

"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham." (GEN 22:1)

"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." (JAS 1:13)

Judas died how?

"And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself." (MAT 27:5)

"And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out." (ACT 1:18)

Ascend to heaven

"And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." (2KI 2:11)

"No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, ... the Son of Man." (JOH 3:13)

What was Jesus' prediction regarding Peter's denial?

Before the cock crow - MAT 26:34

Before the cock crow twice - MAR 14:30

How many times did the cock crow?

MAR 14:72 And the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to mind the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept.

MAT 26:74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew.
MAT 26:75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.

LUK 22:60 And Peter said, Man, I know not what thou sayest. And immediately, while he yet spake, the cock crew.
LUK 22:61 And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.

JOH 13:38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, still thou hast denied me thrice.

JOH 18:27 Peter then denied again: and immediately the cock crew.

How many beatitudes in the Sermon on the Mount

MAT 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
MAT 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
MAT 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
MAT 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
MAT 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
MAT 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
MAT 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
MAT 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
MAT 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

LUK 6:20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.
LUK 6:21 Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.
LUK 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
LUK 6:23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

Does every man sin?

1KI 8:46 If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near;

2CH 6:36 If they sin against thee, (for there is no man which sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them over before their enemies, and they carry them away captives unto a land far off or near;

PRO 20:9 Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?

ECC 7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

JO1 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
JO1 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
JO1 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

JO1 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Who bought potter's field

ACT 1:18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
ACT 1:19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

MAT 27:6 And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood.
MAT 27:7 And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in.
MAT 27:8 Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood, unto this day.

Who prophesied the potter's field?

MAT 27:9-10 (mentions Jeremy but no such verse in Jeremiah) is in Zechariah 11:12-13

Who bears guilt?

GAL 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

GAL 6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden.

Do you answer a fool?

PRO 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

PRO 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

How many children did Michal, the daughter of Saul, have?

2SA 6:23 Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.

2SA 21:8 But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite:

How old was Jehoiachin when he began to reign?

2KI 24:8 Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.

2CH 36:9 Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.

Marriage?

Proverbs 18:22
1 Corinthians 7 (whole book. See 1,2,27,39,40)

Did those with Saul/Paul at his conversion hear a voice?

ACT 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

ACT 22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.

Where was Jesus three days after his baptism?

MAR 1:12 And immediately the spirit driveth him into the wilderness.

JOH 1:35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;

(various traipsings)

How many apostles were in office between the resurrection and ascension?

1 Corinthians 15:5 (12)
MAT 27:3-5 (minus one from 12)
ACT 1:9-26 (Mathias not elected until after resurrection)

MAT 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.

Judging

1 Cor 2:15 "The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:" (NIV)

1 Cor 4:5 "Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God."

Good deeds

Matt 5:16 "In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven." (NIV)

Matt 6:3-4 "But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." (NIV)

For or against?

MAT 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
(default is against)

MAR 9:40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
(default is for)

LUK 9:50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
(default is for)

Whom did they see at the tomb?

MAT 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
MAT 28:3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
MAT 28:4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
MAT 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.

MAR 16:5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.

LUK 24:4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:

JOH 20:12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.

God change?

MAL 3:6
JAS 1:17
1SA 15:29
JON 3:10
GEN 6:6

Destruction of cities (what said was jeremiah was zechariah)

MAT 27:9 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;

ZEC 11:11-13 (Note: There is nothing in Jeremiah remotely like this.)

Who's sepulchers

ACT 7:16
GEN 23:17,18

Strong drink?

PRO 31:6,7
JOH 2:11-11

When second coming?

MAT 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

MAR 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

LUK 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

(See also 1TH 4:15-18)

Solomon's overseers

1KI 9:23 550
2CH 8:10 250

The mother of Abijah:

2CH 11:20 Maachah the daughter of Absalom

2CH 13:2 Michaiah the daughter of Uriel

When did Baasha die?

1KI 16:6-8 26th year of the reign of Asa

2CH 16:1 36th year of the reign of Asa

How old was Ahaziah when he began to reign?

2KI 8:26 22

2CH 22:2 42

The differences in the census figures of Ezra and Nehemiah.

What was the color of the robe placed on Jesus during his trial?

MAT 27:28 scarlet

JOH 19:2 purple

What did they give him to drink?

MAT 27:34 vinegar

MAR 15:23 wine with myrrh

How long was Jesus in the tomb?

Depends where you look; MAT 12:40 gives Jesus prophesying that he will spend "three days and three nights in the heart of the earth," and MAR 10:34 has "after three days (meta treis emeras) he will rise again." As far as I can see from a quick look, the prophecies have "after three days," but the post-Resurrection narratives have "on the third day."

References

The King James version of the Bible.

Self-Contradictions of the Bible by William Henry Burr (written in 1859 as a response to fundamentalism).

The X-Rated Bible: An Irreverent Survey of Sex in the Scriptures by Ben Edward Akerley

The Bible Handbook. (This is a compilation of several previous works by several authors, including W.P. Ball, G.W. Foote, and John Bowden. It's a collection of biblical contradictions, absurdities, atrocities, immoralities, indecencies, obscenities, unfulfilled prophecies and broken promises. This 372-page volume will give the atheist tons of scriptural ammunition for shooting down the flimsy arguments of the reality impaired.)

Classified Biblical Extracts Or, The Holy Scriptures Analyzed: Showing Its Contradictions, Absurdities And Immoralities by Robert Cooper (originally published in 1840).

DeHaan, M. R.
508 Answers to Bible Questions : with answers to seeming Bible contradictions. Grand Rapids, Mich. : Zondervan, [1968?], c1952.
UCSB Library BS538 .D43 1968

Thaddaeus, Joannes, fl. 1630.
The reconciler of the Bible inlarged : wherein above three thousand seeming contradictions throughout the Old and New Testament are fully and plainly reconciled ... London : Printed for Simon Miller ..., 1662.
Series title: Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 1052:9.
UCSD Central MICRO F 524 Current Periodical Microform

Poole, Matthew, 1624-1679.
Annotations upon the Holy Bible. Vol. II : wherein the sacred text is inserted, and various readings annex'd, together with the parallel scriptures : the more difficult terms in each verse are explained... The third edition, with the addition of a new concordance and tables, by Mr. Sam. Clark; the whole corrected and amended by the said Mr. Sam. Clark and Mr. Edward Veale .. London : Printed for Thomas Parkhurst [and 6 others], MDCXCVI [1696].
Series title: Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 1041:1.
UCSD Central MICRO F 524 Current Periodical Microform

About a year ago, I began slooowly reading the Holy Bible and assessing what it means to a modern reader — not historically, but literally and metaphorically.

As I'm nearing the end of the third book of sixty-six (Leviticus, that is), I've encountered one of the most disturbing passages yet:

16 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

17 Speak unto Aaron, saying, Whosoever he be of thy seed in their generations that hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God.

18 For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous,

19 Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded,

20 Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken;

21 No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God.

In other words, keep those creepy physical defectives away from my holy altar! God is love, doncha know, God is love.

There are so many unsavory passages in this vaunted tome, such as...

• The punishment of all women because Eve dared to eat from the Tree of Knowledge
• The destruction of nearly every living thing, because God got it in his head that "the wickedness of man was great"
• Completely uncriticized slave-banging and otherwiselegitimizing slavery as a legal activity
• A Bible hero offering up his virginal daughters to an angry mob (and the daughters subsequently raping him)
• God insisting that Abraham be willing to stab his son to death on a sacrificial altar, and surely traumatizing the kid in the process
• Members of YHWH's favorite family avenging a single act of rape by tricking an entire city of men into getting circumcised and then killing them all
• After killing a young man the Lord deems wicked, killing his brother for not wanting to impregnate his sister-in-law
• God randomly trying to kill his right-hand man, Moses
• The plague after plague unleashed on the Egyptians — including the slaves and animals — because God hardened Pharaoh's heart so he wouldn't let the Israelites go and have a picnic in His honor. And making an annual celebration of the killing of every firstborn Egyptian.
• Yahweh claiming ownership of every firstborn male, including of the human variety, with the seeming implication that he wants them sacrificed in his honor
• Meting out punishment not only on infidels, but on three or four generations of their offspring
• Repeated calls to execute people who work on the Sabbath
• A 9/11-sized massacre of fellow Israelites because they dance around a golden idol
• Endless descriptions of reasons and methods for absolving human sins by ritually sacrificing animals, including rituals where one animal is soaked in the blood of its butchered brethren
• The Good Lord burning two children alive for lighting some incense, and then forbidding their father — His #1 priest — from grieving the loss
• And countless other reasons for people and animals to be slaughtered, including for being gay and for being a critter who's the victim of bestiality. And you'll be excommunicated for many other sins, including having sex with a menstruating woman.

Beyond that there is constant rewarding of people who steal others' birthrights and who rip off innocent Egyptians and punishing of people who aspire to God-like accomplishments.

The major story of the Pentateuch is that God is going to kick all the natives out of Canaan and give it to a small group of people that are his favorites. Doesn't that sound like the nicest little deity you've ever heard of?

For y'all, who may have read much more of the One True Infallible Guide to Morality, what are your favorite examples of bad messages in the Good Book?

* * *

Bonus out-of-context Bible quotes:

The coolest (so far) is from Genesis 27:11 — "I am a smooth man."

The cruelest, so fitting for today's Religious Right Repubs, fromLeviticus 19:15 — "Thou shalt not respect the person of the poor."

The truest, from Exodus 15:3 — “The LORD is a man of war.”

POSTED BY VAST LEFT-WING CONSPIRACY AT 9:14 AM

LABELS: BS4A

-The Bible actually portrays the slaughter of the Shechem citizens in a negative light; Jacob criticises his children for it (genesis 34:30), and implies that their descendants will be heavily punished (in Genesis 49:"The Blessing of Jacob" [its a poem, in the Hebrew]).

-Leviticus 18:22 (and its parallel in Leviticus 21) are not about homosexuality, nor gay sex, nor are they even about male-male anal sex in general. If you look at the literal translations (in the comments for the post on Leviticus 18), its clear that its either about male religious prostitution or about adultery in which the 3rd party is a male.

-The Incense-Burners are meant to be adults. That doesn't justify the punishment any more, but it isn't killing of children [there's plenty of that elsewhere].

-You haven't posted about it yet, but when you get to Deuteronomy, the "3rd or 4th generation" thing will be roundly contradicted.

You ever watched any of Bishop Spong's vids or read his books? Check out "The Terrible Texts of the Bible" on Google Video. Excellent stuff. I wish he'd just come out and say his religion is rubbish, overall, but he doesn't.

I didn't get a clear sense that Mr. Bible Writer Man thought the Shechem slaughter was a crime. YHWH, who has come down hard on much slighter matters, uttered not a peep about it -- though, indeed, Jacob did wring his hands about it.

Yes, there was ambiguity in the supposedly anti-gay passages, but they are at least suggestive of a prohibition on homosexuality (and they've certainly done the job in providing fodder to those who would demonize gays).

Even if the incense burners were adults, they were still Aaron's "kids," and was literally inhumanely hurtful to not only kill them unjustly but to bar him from grieving them. Truly a monstrous act.

In regards to Shechem, Yahweh's supposed opinion is expressed in the long term, somewhat later in the narrative (Somewhere between Joshua and Kings); the threat that Jacob makes, in the "Blessing of Jacob", is an expression of the eventual fate of the TRIBEs in the long term future. The point of course being that when the story was really written, and especially when the "Blessing of Jacob" was really written, the events of Joshua to Kings had mostly already happened. To spoil the surprise (its not that exciting or major), the TRIBE of Simeon dwindles into nothingness, and Levi is scattered among the other tribes; Simeon disintegrates due to being absorbed by Judah, and the reality of the Levites is that "Levi" was originally just a job description ("priest") and as a result the "Levi" gathered around prominent sanctuaries (which obviously would be cities/towns/etc. scattered among the other territories, rather than continuous territory).

I'm not exactly sure why you seem to think that "And with a sanctified male you shall not lie down to have sex with a woman, it is a [religious] impurity" (masoretic) or "And lying with a male in the wife's bed, it is religiously impure" (Septuagint) are suggestive of homosexuality in general rather than VERY SPECIFIC activities connected to WOMEN. Neither the masoretic nor the Septuagint even mention sexual encounters only involving two people where where neither man is married to a woman. In fact, as you'll see in about 2 years time, when you reach the books of Samuel, there's some quite positive depictions of male-male love. And if your qualms are more with the fact that I refer to the Septuagint and masoretic rather than the KJV:
-the KJV is based on the Bishop's Bible and William Tynedale's translation
-these are partly based on on Jerome's Vulgate, partly on the Douay-Rheims Bible, and partly on the masoretic text
-the Douay-Rheims is a translation of the Vulgate
-the Vulgate is a Latin translation of the ancestor of the masoretic text (as far as the first few books of the Old Testament are concerned)
-based on the Talmudic quotations from the masoretic text's ancestor, it appears to have been remarkably similar to the versions in the Hexapla
-the Hexapla is a book containing 6 versions of the bible next to one another in parallel columns
-the Septuagint is one of these 6 books, and the only one that survives completely; the other 5 books only survive as a few fragments

The bible is rather disturbing and quite opposite for the whole "God is love" argument.

This is what happens when people are reading something they don't understand. First, too many atheists in general seem to lack the ability to READ IN PROPER CONTEXT and they also (you, I mean and anyone else reading this blog) lack the ability to think in nuanced terms. And people accuse Christians of being rigid.

Therefore you have foolishness like this blog where a bunch of people who don't know the Bible (and don't really want to understand it) cherry pick through the Bible and read into the scriptures only what they want to see or in some cases, things that aren't even there. Nice work.

You think that all the blood letting, sacrificing, killing people for such reasons as "spilling their seed", testing someone's faith by telling them to kill their son just to see if they would actually do it, killing rebellious teens, killing wives for almost any reason at all, killing people for not performing overly complicated rituals, and just the killing in general of various peoples (of whom god was supposed to have created in the first place, but apparently now wants erradicated), and alllll the revenge that he demands be exacted on people for absolutely petty reasons, along with granting men the right to do just about anything while women are basically property...you're cool with all of that? Not just cool with, but actually believe and accept that? I just want to make sure, because if you say 'yes' then any further dialog with you will be pointless, as faith and love of that sort to a cruel and vindictive god shows a mind set identical to "Battered wife syndrome" and no outside logic or reason will change your mind until you yourself realize that you don't have to accept that kind of cruelty.

Context is important in any book, and is especially so in one as broadly sweeping as the Bible. The Bible is a record of human failures as much as it is one of God's revelation about Himself. You accuse God of being petty or vindictive. But what is God combating in this world? Note Genesis 6:5. Man's heart is incredibly wicked - this is a theme that pervades all of Scripture. What about Onan? Because Onan showed complete disdain for both his family (according to the customs of his people) and God, he lost his life. Be thankful that God is far more merciful than this 99.99% of the time.

The "overly complicated" rituals statement betrays your lack of understanding. Every ritual was symbolic in some aspect of Jesus Christ - the rituals were foreshadowing. Even Abraham's offering of Isaac was a picture of what Christ would do.
One other important note: the Scriptures are progressive. In the Old Testament times, men were allowed to marry multiple wives, but this changed as God revealed more information about holy living over time. We don't give 1 year olds a chart of chores and expectations, demanding they follow every last jot, and God has not done this with man either. What was allowed (not commanded/expected) in OT times is often clarified and refined in the NT.
The battered wife syndrome comment is fascinating, because it's almost the same argument that Paul makes against atheists in Romans 1:18-22. Creation declares that God exists, even apart from the Bible. Knowledge of God is written in every human's heart, but man refuses to accept this truth...for now.

The whole "thou shalt not respect the person of the poor" was taken out of context from this

"Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour. "

And it just makes us atheists look bad and misrepresenting.

So if you want to show people how STUPID the bible really is, don't take @!$%# out of context. There are thousands of bull@!$%# crap in there, find those!

The irony, it burns!

God of Mercy and Love? 2 disturbing verses:

Deuteronomy 25:11-12
"When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: Then thou shall cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.”

Matthews 10:35
Jesus Says, “For I have come to turn "'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—“

Mr. Jones above must have a malfunction between his ears !!!!

If those tunnels were just used for food and fuel , Israel would most likely have left them alone. So who is kidding who here ??? The Palestinians are going to use them to rearm themselves once again. So much for that peace treaty.

It was a temporary cease-fire and will only last until Hamas replenish their arms stockpiles. We will never see peace in that area - not in this century nor the next. Islam's ideology of hatred has lasted since the seventh century and will endure until Islam reforms into a moderate religion of love and peace - which is NEVER.

Geronimo Sittingbull

Yes, Israel does in fact restrict what enters Gaza from Israel. But there's this border with EGYPT that is also controlled, and it's NOT controlled by Israel. Here's a hint for you, it's controlled by EGYPT and the Muslim Brotherhood.

Oh, the other point you seemed to have missed is that Hamas levies a tax, which I'm fairly certain smugglers using the tunnels avoid paying. Of course that hasn't stopped some of those altruistic PALESTINIAN smugglers from becoming millionaires now has it.

So, who's a howler there Sittingbull?

Hey "Geronimo", get real!! The only reason it's an "open-air prison" is because it's filled with foreign criminals and terrorists.

I seriously hope that Israel decimates them, and then deports every last one of the survivors back to their countries of origin. Because THAT is the ONLY way that that region of the world will EVER know peace.

muslims cannot be made to concede defeat in any other way. They must be brutalized, and completely decimated. Anything short of that will not work.

Geronimo,

You are right. The Israelis simply need to bomb that whole area - tunnels and all - back to the Stone Age. It won't take many missiles to do that.

The only way that this will ever be resolved in this specific area is to completely wipe out the Gaza Strip and allow nothing to live or grow there.

Geronimo, you should already know that Israel regularly sends bus loads of aid into Gaza - medical, food, fuel, this is also thoroughly documented and you seem like the kind of person who does some homework before they post. Funny you missed that...

The Israelis simply need to bomb that whole area - tunnels and all - back to the Stone Age.

tsk, tsk, NC ... they have after all progressed so far....all the way from cave dwelling rag headed goat humpers to ...tunnel dwelling rag headed goat humpers....give credit where credit is due after all.

Geronimo....If this your last post on this then thank you...

Thank you for not posting tons of pro terrorist drivel...Thank you for not showing your true allegiance to terrorist organizations.....And thank you for no longer accusing those of which you are a huge proponent of...Hypocrisy....

Whats Crazy is that mankind is still using religion to kill each other. And we are still using it to control world events. All three of the religions that stem from Judaism. Jewish, Muslim, and yes Christianity. Have at one point used Religion to kill off many of the other Sect.

There is no one bad religion. They all have done things to protect their teachings, or to spread their faith. They all have killed in the name of GOD. Mankind takes all this religion stuff to seriously. And people DIE. I just wish that we Americans would stop Funding any of it.

The willfull ignorance of history, the hate and ill-will is just breathtaking.

yes your agenda of hatred and desire to murder the jews is truly breathtaking

Geronimo: The tunnels are used for smuggling weapons; "don't take my word, the evidence is compellingly and thoroughly documented." Also, google "malls in Gaza." This is one "open air prison" I'd like to go to If I were serving time.

The Israelis know well the danger of smuggling people & weapons. That's how the state of Israel was founded. By terrorists smuggling in people & weapons to Palistine.

joeyfromcali, Hope this helps clear up the "3 religions" thing. Must be brief though.

Judaism and Christianity are the same "lineage". Christ is the Messiah on this lineage through Isaac. Islam has Muhammed as it's Messiah, and comes from the half-hebrew and half-arab line of Ismael.

Abram had ISHMAEL(1/2 Arab) by Hagar who was "Arab". Abram had ISAAC (full Hebrew) by Sarah (which was Jehovah God's original plan).

The main thing to understand is that Satan wants to be like God, and does so by duplicating God's works. His downfall was because he wanted to be "like" God. This is key to understanding what is going on in the world. Islam is Satan's main duplicating (false religion) of which he has many. He has applied the lineage of Ishmael (the Arab who was sent to the East of Israel) thus using those peoples... Egypt, Iraq, Iran.. etc. to perform his dual "religion". (Yes, I know Egypt is not east.... get a life, and I hope you know they're part of the Arab peoples).

Islam claims Abram as their "father", as does Judahism. The split is at Ishmael and Isaac and leads to the age long battles.

The "religious" battles around the world is actually the unseen war between God and Satan. Things are ramping up in these last days. Satan brought in Islam for the world to gather around for the end times.

Get a Bible and read Genisis Chapters 16, 17 and 18:vs 1-15. Then go to, and read, Chapter 21: 1-21.

The media reports ( and not very well) what is happening.... but doesn't know, and therefore can't explain, WHY it's happening. This portion of Scripture is KEY to understand today's events. Go for it!

The "religious" battles around the world is actually the unseen war between God and Satan. Things are ramping up in these last days. Satan brought in Islam for the world to gather around for the end times.

yeah right, more religious delusional thinking.

Well, I don't believe that all Palestinians are raving lunatics but the problem is the general population are idiots and manipulated. The "normal" population has gotten brainwashed into supporting Hamas and putiing all the blame on Israel. Yet Hamas is obviously raping the population sucking what little money they have so they can buy weapons.

Gaza could have normal trade with it's neighbors and not have to bring consumer goods through smuggling tunnels. They could get Israel off their backs if they quick lobbing rockets and mortars across the border. They might very well be able to come and go a bit more freely if it weren't for nut jobs crossing the border just to blow themselves up somewhere in Israel.

The article says they smuggle food fuel and even cars through the tunnels. Why? The only logical reason would be to avoid paying Hamas their cut. But Hamas obviously could control the tunnels on the Gaza side and they use them to smuggle weapons. So if they get weapons that way, they obviously are looking the other way or getting some kick backs on the other goods. 13,000 cars? Why? Probably stolen in Egypt. It should be obvious to the people of Gaza that the very reason these tunnels exist is because the Hamas government is totally corrupt.

Many of the people in Gaza are prisoners, but not prisoners of Israel. Instead they are actually prisoners of their own Hamas run government. If you are a citizen of Gaza, ask yourself why your government isn't trying to negotiate with Israel to make your life better? Can you really sit in your unhappy situation and somehow think that Hamas could defeat Israel so you could enjoy the spoils? You'd have to be an idiot to believe that. All they are doing is making life worse on its citizens.

What is happening in Egypt is interesting and the citizens in Gaza might learn from it. Morsi on the one hand has influence on Hamas because of his Muslim Brotherhood backing. But his new power grab is not going to stand in Egypt because too many will not accept it. One can only interpret the point of his power grab depending on where you stand on your belief in his motivations. On the one hand, it could be about insuring that their new constitution is inclusive and not dominated by radical Islamist thinking. The other viewpoint is that he is putting on a strong arm move to assure Muslim Brotherhood dominance.

He has a problem on his hands. It took the Islamic far right to get him elected, but he has also promised to not go exclusively in that direction. Morsi's actions so far have been more to the moderate side. He recognizes the value of relationships with the US and Israel. He knows that these are good for Egypt. His involvement in the cease fire should indicate that he isn't about to jump in with Hamas against Israel, but he can't exactly spit in their face either. I think we are looking at a guy who sincerely wants to transform the region and do positive things for the Egyptian people, but he's somewhat trapped in the middle.

I don't see Morsi as a radical Muslim extremist but someone who realizes the unifying power of the Muslim Brotherhood. If you totally reject them, they aren't just going to fade away and they will resort to extreme measures to gain power. So the best way to change things may very well be to co-opt their power. To moderate them from the inside. In reality, had the liberal side won in Egypt, they may very well have been looking at a civil war. Don't expect Morsi to make a public swing toward liberalism, but also don't expect him to be taking a radical stance either. He may feed them a bit of red meat along the way but he'll only give it to them served up with some moderate ideas too.

An example was in a couple recent speeches trying to negotiate a cease fire. He did make a few statements critical of Israel, but only mixed in with the bigger viewpoint that peace is the better way. He did not support a Hamas view that the only good Jew is a dead Jew. He did not support the idea that conflict was in any way an answer. For some in the Muslim Brotherhood, this might be a bitter pill to swallow unless they got a little red meat to help wash it down. Some in the outside world are viewing his Israel critical statements as just proving that he's the radical Muslim they suspect him being, but you need to keep it all in context.

Before we write off all the people in Gaza, we need to put it in context too. The issue is Hamas and not all the Gaza citizens. I suspect that the majority really have no desire to see the conflict although some may be caught up in the rhetoric.

Hamas is the make shift government of Gaza, it is the name of a political party, like democrat or republican. the so called terrorists are Hezbolla. I guess to some people as long as they start with the same latter H, it's all the same. If you would have asked the bulk of us Americans, what is Gaza? six months ago, I'll bet 90% would not know. you don't know. "what" you don't know. That's the real problem, weather this situation or politics in general. Everybody believes they are well informed, so few are. i learn because I know that I am not as informed as I should be.

Frank-2983998 The three religions are this put more Simply.

Jewish messiah has not come yet

Muslim messiah has not come yet. They follow Mohamed's teachings Koran Same lineage Abram they just follow a Prophet not a Messiah

Christians Jesus is the messiah new testament written by Paul first and considered blasphemy by both the Jews and the Muslims. I personally think he existed and Man made him a Demigod. Instead of a really good teacher.

All three are a seen war between one group of God's children against another group of Gods children. Satan is a fairytale used to define Man's brutal nature. Or Evil described as a fairytale used by MAN to arouse FEAR and control.

Religion is basically the division of humanity. Each different religion is more than likely right and wrong at the same time since they are MAN made. Just my opinion I believe there is a Creator to all that is. I just think It could care less what book we choose to follow.

Joeyfromcali,

Frank-2983998 The three religions are this put more Simply

Yes, Joey, you put it more simply...... but I have to tell you, you're "simply wrong". Satan is as real as Jehovah God. I'm not going to try and convince you otherwise.

Just saying Satan doesn't exist doesn't make it so. I know, you can say the same to me about if God really exists. There is one difference, however. I don't just "believe" God exists, I "know" He does. I am as sure of that as I am of us communicating back and forth on this thread.

Jehovah God is the one true God. The others are gods..... lower case..... and made up by man at the behest of Satan for the very reason we are in discussion here. Deception and confusion are two major tools of Satan, and the world is filled with his divisional activity (sad to say).

I hope some day that that question will be answered for you (and everyone else), and you experience what I have exerienced.

Satan is as real as Jehovah God.

or the tooth fairy.

what, you don't believe in the tooth fairy? then that simply proves you hate the tooth fairy.

(using standard religious, so-called "reasoning")

Max

As long as the Palestinians give aid and comfort to terrorists and allow them to operate out of, or near, homes, hospitals and schools they are part of the problem not the solution and should be treated as terrorists.

The Palestinians chose their path when they elected Hamas to power.

Yes, "Geronimo", this madness will continue unabated until the Israelis give to them what they have sworn to give to all Jews everywhere: Death!
"Palestinians (Jordanians, actually)" have everything to lose, so long as they remain on the path they're committed to.

I think Israel and the rest of the civilized world should issue these animals a final ultimatum: Become peaceful, reject terrorism, accept the existence of the state of Israel and turn over any and all weapons - or face annihilation and the deportation of those who survive.

The "occupation" of Gaza and the West Bank must end! These arab invaders must go!!

Max.....They voted them into power KNOWING the type of "people" that they were....

Thank you so much Max 108. There are two types of people: Those who are asleep and those who are awake. Unfortunately, you are one of only a few who actually use their brains and question for yourself what is really going on and how the media is so manipulated and twisted. Most people are asleep...

TOA...Since you are tired of it all we can assume you are one of the ones sleeping??

The palestinians chose their path? you mean they told the Irgun and stern Gang to evict them from Isreal in 1947 at gun point? amazing, who would have known? Did you ever wonder how millions of people who lived in "israel" for a hundred generation, wound up in the west bank and Gaza? Hint, the west bank was the "west bank of Jordan". Gaza was part of Egypt. what? you didn't know that? amazing lol When I grow up I want to be just like you.

The tunnels in/out of the Warsaw Ghetto were not used in quite the same way. Read up

Cops and robbers both have guns. Is there moral equivalence? No.

Congrats, Max...stupidest, most ill-informed post of the day award. Yeah, there is real moral equivalency there, moron...

Israel supplies them with water, electricity, food and welfare money, but a couch warrior like yourself would never know that . . .

Perhaps the attacks from the Strip should stop, Then Israel will allow them to have their needs met.

Max the moron. I guess all the Jews in Warsaw had to do was to grant Germany their right to exist an to denounce terrorism. Then the ghetto would have magically turned into a resort.

Remember Israel moved out in 2005 and Gaza has been worse off since. But the freefall really picked up pace once Hamas came to power then killed off Arafat's PLO. They would have full statehood by now if it weren't for the fact they would rather kill others then improve the lives of their kids and families. Now all of a sudden Hamas has 10,000 rockets and their people still suffer daily. Its about priorities and Hamas lead Palestians only want war and martydom.

Are all Palestinians this way? No. but they can't stand up to Hamas any better than the people of Iran stoop up to their government in 2008. I seem to remember a time when Palestinians revolted in Jordan and were slaughtered for it. Unfortunately this seems to be the only message they understand. Israel could have begun the ground offensive that would have seriously done damage to Gaza and it people but were persuaded by Hamas's half hearted truce effort that would have never come to fruitition if it weren't for the US and Egypt.

NC

sorry...but that would make sense....cant be haveing that now can we.

Excellent post Adam 2011718. But don't waste your time or energy on Max. He believes he wins when we bother to respond to his irrational rants. Leave him alone in his dingy little corner and perhaps he'll just wither away.

BECAUSE THEY ARE BEING STARVED BY ISRAEL.

Max, what do you think the Kerem Shalom crossing is used for??? ISRAEL trucks in free food and medical care to the residents in Gaza - daily. Does hamas worry about the people in Gaza like this???

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=292631

natawa: "Israel supplies them with water, electricity, food and welfare money, but a couch warrior like yourself would never know that . . ."
What a generosity! Except that US taxpayers and other countries pay for all that... It is all foreign aid that Israel spends on Gaza, not their own. Not a penny comes from Israel's taxpayers! You folks are such clever liars.

This is a humanitarian cooperation, Max.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/weeklygazaaid.html

See the clips at post 12.5 for more misery.

ISRAEL UP CLOSE - CIPAC ONLINE

cipaconline.org › REPORTS FROM ISRAEL!ISRAEL UP CLOSE. This clip
is part of the answer to the World's allegations of Israel's “racism' and the
absurd slander that Israel is an “Apartheid” state.

http://cipaconline.org/reports-from-israel/israel-up-close/

Israel provides free medical care to Palestinian children and children from other Muslim countries.

Here's a great video showing Israeli doctors helping very sick children from all over the world, including Muslim children.

http://www.israelupclose.org/volume_34.html#a

Max, Pray Tell: What have the Muslims/Islamists contributed to the world. They can't even help their own brothers and sisters in Syria who have attempted to reach Western Europe for humanitarian aid.

Max^108,

Using your previous Illogic, how about this the Jews stop all electricity, water, etc. going there, and only deal with Israel, same illogic about US not supporting US Allies Worldwide and becoming isolationist. This would Force Hamas to spent all their money on building up the infrastructure instead of buying weapons, ammunition, bomb making materials, etc..

Same is true (using your illogic) with the Jewish Aid to Gaza paid for supposedly according to you with US Taxpayer Money, the Jews use that US Taxpayer money only on Israel and not Gaza nor Palestine.

Max^108 stick with what you know best, being a waitress as depicted with Two Broke Girls.

Ron Paul: U.S. financial support of Israel the driving force in Gaza conflict
http://www.examiner.com/article/ron-paul-u-s-financial-support-of-israel-the-driving-force-gaza-conflict

Ron Paul is the man. The only honest US politician who tells it like it is.

Max^108

natawa: "Israel supplies them with water, electricity, food and welfare money, but a couch warrior like yourself would never know that . . ."
What a generosity! Except that US taxpayers and other countries pay for all that... It is all foreign aid that Israel spends on Gaza, not their own. Not a penny comes from Israel's taxpayers! You folks are such clever liars.

But Max you clearly stated above Israel isnt trucking in food because they are starving the poor Pal's. Now you are saying that they do, but because it isnt from "Israeli Taxpayer" pockets, it doesnt count. Regardless of the situation, it is not far left or right mMax... more or less dead center. Israel does what it can with the irate child that bites the hand that feeds them while protecting their citizens. Not sure about you, but I would be pretty pissed if they were lobbing rockets into my territory.

@custom - sure, the Palestinians are also pissed when Israel keeps murdering their leaders and then blaming Palestinians for "starting it" by shooting off rockets in retaliation for these murders. I like Palestinian people as much as I like Jewish people, but I truly, truly despise the terrorists and warmongers among them. Both sides deserve each other. Just look at the level of hate spouted on this site by the pro-Israel people. Some would LOVE to see a full scale genocide happen again in our times, as long as it is Palestinians who are butchered. How do such people manage to live with themselves? And how come their posts are never collapsed by the moderators? Truly indeed, you people have no shame to show such blatant disregard for humanity. Indeed, this is how the Nazis brainwashed so many Germans into hating Jews and desiring their demise. But of course for people like you, your hate and ill intent are somehow 'justified'. Just as Nazis 'justified' their hate.

I realize that some of people who post here are just paid Zionist shills, so they are just mercenaries of hate, trying to make others be hateful as well. I hope this backfires on them.

Peace to those who deserve the peace.

Hamas in Gaza recieves 800M $$ annually from Iran and other anonymous Muslim groups. (Even from Americans who "want to help the poor Palestinean Children" help pay Iran for Missles & Weapons) Qatar has offered 2+B $$ to help build a nice city. I don't really get it but Al Jazeera said "the Government of Gaza upped its annual budget to.....Paid for by Iran etc." Why does Iran pay an annual government budget????

This is getting thicker and thicker.

Max tells the truth, and you collapse his posts. More and more people are finding out what max found out. All is not what it seems.

I am sure the Israelis are completely aware of what is being smuggled and who is benefiting Does anybody believe the Egypt will close off those tunnels ? What will happen is they will skim off the top more and more and those black market products will cost the avg guy a lot more money which they already do not have.

meanwhile Iran just keeps building.......but ya just know imanutjob is dying to wade in here and spout his nonsense. the revolutionary guard must have him very,very, heavily sedated and locked down / chained up.

or better yet, "containment facility's" ....for same......

( for you non farm types, that's the animals / farm yard equivalent to a septic tank)

nope its all sunshine and lollipops here in lib-land, gotta admit though my new govt issue unicorn sure don't seam to like this cold here.

as long as we worry about other countries we will not realize whats happening here. thats also why people need to work two or more jobs if we keep the masses busy they won't have time to think about the destruction of america

Yeah, I'm sure your life is tough, being whipped in to two-minute hates by the disinformation media like good ol' Fox News. And I gotta ask, you keep your unicorn in a seam? of coal?

Tetrapoda

. And I gotta ask, you keep your unicorn in a seam? of coal?

nope but i found that he calms down when i pipe "we are the world" or " kum by ya" into the shed .......if i had coal i could keep him warm instead.

BTW is fox still on the air? i don't have cable, heck i figured it had been outlawed by now, oh well I'm certain its on the agenda.

and as you seam to be on top of things may i ask when i will be getting my new obama i-pod? my obama phone just isnt keeping up with today's technology, i need it to look for jobs ya know.

SO Tetra...What do you say about MSNBC, CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC? You call them informed media?? And I have to ask, you keep your leprechaun and pot of gold at the end a rainbow? of welfare?

Yes they are Rob68. Everyone knows that American media is controlled by Jews.

Scooter - your govt issued unicorn is the funniest thing i've read all day...

Gaza elected another government

with the Muslim brotherhood? yep thats bound to work just ask Libya, and anywhere else that its happened, or just ask Barry, he supports em.and we all know hes got the solution.

are you saying there is something wrong with being white?!?! You are the racist trash on this forum tetrapoda, you just proved it for everyone to see

Tetrapoda

affluent white American, yes?

gee how novel....a race card...never seen one of those before...and no i am unemployed waiting on my obama phone replacement, you know the one the , obama i-pod that way i can use it to look for work ....honest thats what it's for .....just waiting around for the 1st so my food stamps, welfare, ssd, and other payments to get here ...isn't everybody?

utterly brutalize a civilian population

Here is further proof of the brutalization in Gaza, Tetrapoda.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxaDmAyt84g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FePZ0y6aOos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o37GHxeRqGA&feature=fvsr

as one of the clips say, so much misery.

and you expected?

I for one expected nothing more. And the point is, they care more about hate and killing than peace and prosperity. They could easily have the latter just by stopping the rocket fire into Israel. They are obsessed by Islamic hate. They are like the terminator - they will never give up, and the forces of good must destroy them or else spend eternity fighting them.

and their rags are much better at keeping their camel flea infected hair clean. ..bless their ingenuity..

GM scremin

what a coincidence we was posting about the same thing at the exact same time..... what a riot....BTW turns out turkey and mozzarella cheese makes a fairly good omelet. case ya need an idea.

GM Scooter

As a NA, this comparison offended me. We are not known for tunnelling underground like vermin.

agreed .... but this is nbc and you know their motto..we must always be P.C. and ever vigilant to support the person who we elected.

No, Hamas is not like whats happening at the American Southern border. Hamas has the goal of destroying Israel. Its a whole different agenda. Gaza is 99.3% militant Muslim now. I'm proud that the Muslims in America are not like these old world types and we can show the world that we CAN live together. In Israel they cannot. All Gaza and the West bank should be Israel. Here's why it isn't:

1.Before the British it was Ottoman Turk (not palestine anymore) Britian made 3 different promises to 3 different groups. They told Jewish they would return refugees from all over the world to their homeland when they got the Turks out.

2.The British Commissioner in Egypt, McMahon, told the Hashemite family that if they helped fight the Turks out, they would give the area to them. So T.E. Lawrence and Hasayns son, Faysal led the army.

3.The French thought that since they were helping, they would get half the area.

After the war they had to split all the conquered areas up. France took Syria and areas west of the Jordan river, Britain the part East and then split that between Arabs & Jews, renaging on promises by Balfour to Jews and McMahon to Faysal. New borders were drawn. Well they made big Mistakes. Part of what France took should have been Faysals and Israels early borders should have been preserved(which did include Golan Heights and even more that France took) So France and Britain pull out and leave the mess they made & then there are the Jordaneans, Egypt, Russia, Lebanon. Too MUCH. Britian should admit they made a big mistake and tell the UN to redraw boundries of Palestine as Israel like first planned. Muslims have their Nations. In the Middle East Muslims want to Kill All Jews. They Cannot EVER live together. This area could cause WWIII. For the sake of World Peace, the Middle East should agree to pull out. A small sacrifice to end all this danger and death...Russia to Iran to Egypt to Lebanon, Syria, Gaza to Israel Bringing in all the rest of us, Britain,Canada,Austrailia,Germany,Norway,Sweden,Denmark,Netherlands,Ireland blah blah.

Modern Muslims must leave Palestine. Who could EVER think of them as a State??????

. In Israel they cannot

actually, the muslims living within Israel do far better than the palestinians, and they get along with most Jewish Israelis (with some extremist exceptions) just fine

sorry im an independent.....well for now anyway...but be of good cheer.. next week im going to have a frontal lobotomy, then i will be a true democrat. And as i will be new to this could you please inform me as to the location of the cliff?...i been reading the lemming handbook and it doesn't pinpoint it.

Mucking fuzlims. Inbred cultists.

bawhahahahahahaha....good one dave....you may wish to change over to decalf though.

jesus?.. the mexican drug runner or the guy next door? you must be speaking of the drug runner, the guy next door just sits on his lazy ass , breeds, and gets checks.

I beg to differ, strongly. All Hamas has to do to live in peace and prosperity is stop the rocket attacks on Israel. If Mexico sent rockets over our border, do you think we would settle for a truce like Israel has? We'd be invading Mexico in a heartbeat. The Israelis have been incredibly restrained about their response, much more than I would have been. I would have overrun Gaza, and done a house to house search for weapons. And I would have built a gallows in Gaza City, and hanged every member of Hamas.

recognize Palestine as a state with set borders.

This was offered when Israel was re-established. It was refused.

Give them that, and if a single rocket is fired beyond it, THEN occupy and annex it.

Too late. That already happened.

@Russellm, Your reasoning is pathetic and absurd.

The muslims who are occupying Gaza are the disgusting remnants of a long abandoned islamic conquest.
They're the descendants of the invaders of Israel who took the land from the Jews. And, guess what! The Jews are back and they want their land back!
The Israeli "blockade" is in place to prevent these terrorists from acquiring more and more weapons to be used against any and all Jews, it is not in place to fight "freedom fighters"!
The so-called "Palestinians" have no "freedom fighters" because they do Not believe in "freedom"!
They are islamic terrorists and barbarians who want to destroy all Jews and "wipe Israel off the map". "Palestine" was never a country, it's merely a name that was given to a region of the Middle East that was, for many, many centuries before islam came into existence, historically Israel - but had fallen to the scourge of the islamic conquest! And "Palestinians" are Not entitled to this land! They may be entitled to land in Jordan ( a true "Palestinian" country!) perhaps, but Not Israel!

Against Israel's best interests, these barbaric and disgusting squatters have been very generously offered peace time and again by Israel only to reject it and embrace murder and genocide instead!

With All of the facts on the table, the civilized world cannot deny that the Only recourse Israel can take and the Only path to peace that exists there is to wage all-out war on these despicable monsters.
I think it is far past time that the pussy-footing end! It is time to get medieval on their asses! It's time to destroy them and deport all those who survive. Only then will the muslim world know that their "conquest" is over and the world will know "peace".

Russelm, your hearing and reading lots of propaganda. Gaza is not Occupied by Israelis. The Jewish National fund bought 20% of the farm land in 1920's, but because of pressure had to give it all back in 2005. None of their money was returned. Gaza has become 99.3% militant Muslim. Forced or by choice conversion was common. They have a GOAL of Obliterating Israel, no matter how long it takes. They sent out sucide bombers. They caused all kinds of trouble especially for their Cause. Israel had to blockade to keep safe. The whole border between Egypt is not under their control. Gaza is not an open air prison. They are just kept OUT of Israel. Stuff goes in all the time. Thousands of Cars, ipods, foods, WEAPONS from Iran. Hamas and others use the Tunnels for Big Business. People are getting rich. Jeez....I'm a Liberal and it hurts me to say that the only permanent solution is for Muslim Extremists to exodus Israel. Israel MUST exist for all the Jews throught the World. Its their right. They cannot live with someone who wants to kill them. SIMPLE AS THAT. These people want to kill all jews and wipe Israel off the map. They cannot Live there.

Russellm - I'n not a fan of terrorism, but let's put this into perspective, shall we?

Ok, First admit that you are UNEDUCATED, UNINFORMED as your post indicates and are flinging uneducated, uninformed emotive opinion manure all over everyone on Newsvine's "Get Smarter Here".

Russellm - If Mexico invaded California

They are, they have if you haven't noticed. And why should the Mexican Government say that they have invaded when they can deny that, by saying it is only the over 23 Million Individuals of their Nation.

Also why buy the cow, when you can get the milk for free (given and paid for by US Taxpayers).

Invasion does NOT have to occur by Military Forces. Same crap happened to Iraq after the Fall of the Shah of Iran with Millions of Shia from Iran fleeing the massive unemployment of Iran into Iraq as Illegal Aliens;eventually making the Shia (Persians, Shia, language Farsi) the Majority Population over the Iraqis (Arabs, Sunnis, language Arabic). The first thing the Shia from Iran did was demand Iraqis Citizen's Rights, if this sounds like the Mexicans (a Nationality NOT "Racism") as over 70% (Majority) of Illegal Aliens at the US.

To defeat any attempts at denying Citizens Rights to Illegal Aliens, like the California; the US Taxpayer Funded Illegal Aliens Groups at the US hired entire Legal Firms to use the US Laws against the US Citizens. example: Eventhough, the US Citizens of California Voted For California Proposition 187 to deny Public Assistance of Any Kind to non US Citizens, the entire Law Firms hired by La Raza defeated California Proposition 187 in the Federal Courts, this set the Legal Precedent Nationwide.

There is also the Known statements of the Illegal Alien Advocacy Groups within the US stating their Goal of the creation of Aztlan by Overthrowing States of the US.

The Illegal Aliens at the US have been listed as a National Security Threat forever. There are more ways to Fight Wars than short term less effective Military Force.

And as far as Food, Medical Supplies, Humanitarian Assistance, Building Materials, etc. to Terrorist Organizations, READ The US Supreme Court Ruling 2010 pertaining to that, (NO) Material Support to Terrorist Organizations. As in no "Expert Advise" (Legal Representation) to Legitimize Terrorist Organizations, NO Food, Medical Supplies, Humanitarian Assistance, Building Materials, etc. to Terrorist Organizations, or any other things that the Terrorist Organization would otherwise have to buy with their Funds, instead of using their Funds to buy Weapons, Ammunition, Rockets, Bomb Making Materials, etc.. By giving the Terrorist Organizations, Food, Medical Supplies, Building Materials, etc. this frees up their Funds to buy MORE weapons, ammunition, rockets, bomb making materials, etc..

At places like Palestine the Mistakes were previously made with President Obama regardless of warnings of the UN Aid Workers at Palestine, gave "Palestine" $900 Million. The $900 Million was immediately seized by armed force of the Hamas Warlords, any "material support" as Food, Water, Building Materials, etc. were seized also and hoarded by the Hamas Warlords to Force the Neutral Palestinians to join Hamas or Starve and face Daily Beatings. Starvation as used as an Islamic weapon is common practice at most Islamic Nations. These new Hamas members to prove their loyalty to the Hamas Warlords must become Hamas Islamic Jihadists Foreign Fighters for over 9 months, with their Mission of Killing Christians, Jews, Unbelievers in accordance with the Holy Koran's 109 Suras of the 114 Suras Calls to All Islamic Believers to War Against the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers.

After few months (Hamas being trained as Islamic Jihadists) after President Obama gave Palestine $900 Million, we started killing and capturing more (Redacted % more) Hamas Foreign Fighters at Afghanistan; so many that even President Obama's Appointed Registered Democrat Commander of Afghanistan, General McChystal stated the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran's DIRECT involvement with the Taliban, Al Quada, Islamic Jihadist (Hamas Foreign Fighters, Pakistanis Taliban, Chechen Foreign Fighters, etc.) at Afghanistan.

To make matters worse (Repeat the same mistake and expect a different Result) SOS Clinton gave $400 Million to Palestine, with the identical results; join the Hamas Warlords or starve and face daily beatings.

As far as US or International Assistance (Aid), it is a common practice like at Pakistan for Islamic Jihadist Organizations to "Rebrand" the US and International Aid to become Pakistanis Taliban Aid; this is why during the Flood at Pakistan the Pakistanis Taliban stated they would kill any US or International Aid Workers coming into Pakistan and stop any US or International Assistance to Pakistan as the Pakistanis Taliban could not "Rebrand" (Repackage) all the millions of Tons of US And International Aid, that would reveal to the Pakistanis People the truth.

As far as Hamas and the West Bank. You do realize how uneducated you sound. The Hamas Warlords by armed force entered Palestine and forced out the Palestinian Authority from Palestine to the West Bank. And as far as "Voting", how about you vote for someone other than Hamas with a gun to your head, or under threat of repercussions; same thing the Taliban did at Afghanistan during the 1990s, and still collect ink stained fingers especially from Afghan Women that Voted.

As far as "Palestine", go read up on Fundamentalist Islamic Amin Al Husseini's Pan Arabic Plan. As the removal of the original inhabitants (Coptic Christians, Jews) from Palestine (British Colony, former British Colony) by armed force; then replacing them with the Jordanians, Egyptians, etc. to stop any Jews from settling in the "Middle East". Being that most Jordanians, Egyptians, etc. did not want to leave their own Nations, the Undesirables of these Nations including Jordanian, Egyptian, etc. Prisoners were sent to Palestine. This is why at Jordan, Egypt, etc. the Palestinian "Refugees" are held at Palestinian Refugee Camps enclosed by barbed wire (razor wire) under armed guard (as Prisoners) and not allowed to mix in with the local populations.

So NOPE, the "Palestinians" have no more Right to be a Nation nor claim Palestine than the Illegal Aliens have a Right to Claim US States. And by Legitimizing them as a Nation only Legitimized the Hamas Warlords, their Use of Armed Force and Terrorism (persuasion) against their own people to join Hamas.

To even compare the American Revolution (War of Independence) aka War of the Colonies, to the events at Palestine prove just how uneducated your are about both Events. And flinging in the Taliban proves that you know NOTHING, Facts of who (whom), what, why, how, etc. of how the Taliban Originated.

Your Academic Idealistic No Real World Experience pertaining to these matters only caused the situation to get even worse, as proven with President Obama's (Foreign) Policies.

To deport them? there are two things you can do to your enemy kill them or exile them if you exile them then they will regroup and come back with a vengeance.

The media must not realize what happens when they report military related articles.The media has long been the best inteligence gathering source for our enemies.Sadly,our troops are the ones that pay for it.

Almost nobody does, but Obama did comment Chris Matthew's thrill running up his leg at that bishop's dinner, so he must follow MSNBC somewhat.

BTW, why would you hope that we don't destroy tunnels that allow Hamas to continue to attack Israel with missiles?

Really. "Secrete Tunnels" which EVERYONE knows about. Politely, we are supposed to avert our eyes to the new ties between Iran, Egypt and Gaza (plus Syria, Lebanon & Jordan) Gaza itself is a suicide bomb mission of Modern Muslim Militants. Politely???? Why doesn't someone DO something??? Oh, the legal complexities. The restraint of Israel is AMAZING as is their willingness to work with the opinions of other countries. Not perfect under the horrible circumstances, but they TRY. Hamas, Iran and now maybe Egypt want to destroy them.

Ha Ha Dev79. Short and sweet.